How The ABA Changed Basketball Forever With Scott Tarter

In a world full of turmoil, despair and darkness, you need to carry the light. Season three of the Get Attitude Podcast is where we will ignite your mind, your heart, and your attitude. And welcome to the Gap. The Get Attitude Podcast. The Gap. Bridging the gap from who you are to who you wish to become, and from where you are to where you wish to go. Hi, my name is Glenn Bill, founder of the University of Attitude, keynote speaker and author of the international best selling book, the ABCs of Attitude. I've been fortunate enough to help tens of thousands of people Get Attitude. Attitude is the secret formula to success, not only in your business, but in your life. And this podcast will help you get yours. So let's get some. Welcome, everyone. Please remember to subscribe, hit the like button, rate us, review us, and especially if you like what we're doing today, share this podcast out with all your friends and all your social media. Today, we're here with a gentleman who started and bridged the gap from having an idea to ultimately raising 25 or 24 million dollars for a group of individuals known as the ABA basketball players. So without further ado, we want to bring up attorney and Dropping Dimes foundation founder, Mr. Scott Tarter. Scott, welcome to the Get Attitude Podcast.

Thank you very much, Glenn. Good afternoon, man. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, well, it's, it's our pleasure. And certainly your story of what you've done for this, these wonderful basketball players needs to be talked about. But more importantly, there's people that are out there that are listening to us that maybe have, have an idea like you had and have a dream of turning that idea into something that really benefits people and has an impact on the masses. So what we always like to do, though, is get to know you just a little bit. And our first question is always pretty much the same. When you think of attitude or your definition of attitude, or how do you define attitude?

You know, I'd say I define attitude as.

As.

And I'm not trying to rhyme here, I promise, but I define attitude as gratitude. Because I think if you have gratitude for what you're able to do, whether it's your health, whether it's your, your success in business, whether it's other strengths that you have, whatever that is, you should have gratitude for it. And I think the gratitude that you have for life and for yourself and for the people who surround you, leads to the attitude.

Oh, that's awesome. That's good. And when you think back on your life, who was your first Attitude coach or who, who, who do you think gave you your attitude or where was your attitude most molded man, not to.

Be sound like a cliche, but 100% without question. That was my mom. Oh, cool. You know, we lost her 2008. So it's been a long time. But boy, she, she, you know, I grew up in a working class neighborhood on the east side of Indianapolis and she was always rock. She was always the one that was the rock for other kids in the neighborhood. My brother, my sister. Yeah, she's the one who talked to me about life. She was, she was the rock.

I like it. And so was this was Lana, correct?

Lana, right.

And so you have something called Lana Sports. Do you want to tell us a little bit about Lana Sports? Obviously it's named after her. Obviously you had, she had a big impact on your attitude. And we may drill down on that a little bit, but tell us a little bit about Lana Sports and what that is.

Well, it was just a little bit of a crazy idea that came to mind about eight, seven or eight years ago to bring back the American Basketball association basketball. And there was some possibility that that would get me sideways with the NBA. I couldn't find any other of my buddies who are willing to take that risk. And I thought, well, if I'm going to go ahead and do it, take a risk, I'm certainly going to name it after the person who gave me the inspiration to do something eccentric. And so that's how it became land of sports. And so now today we actually we did get sued by the NBA, but we were able to negotiate a friendly settlement that gave us a royalty. And now we, you know, in a friendly relationship with the NBA, we make the American Basketball association basketball. And then we donate all the proceeds, all of our profits go to the Dropping Dimes Foundation.

Oh, that's awesome. So you obviously big ABA fan, as am I. As is, I'm sure people who are listening. So Atlanta Sports started with your desire to take the ABA basketball and bring it back. Is that what you're telling me?

Yeah, yeah, that's the original red, white and blue basketball. That's the basketball that brought back the three point shot into today's NBA. I mean it started off in the ABA and came to the NBA. It's the basketball that originated the slam dunk competition during All Star Weekend. So it represented excitement, it represented integration of professional basketball in the 60s and 70s. Independence, player, player, independence and autonomy. So it means a lot if you live through that era. And this is the only. Atlanta Sports is the only place you can buy it. And, and all of our profits do go to the Dropping Times Foundation.

I like it. So if you want to own an official ABA basketball, all you gotta do is go to what AtlantaSports.com and start buying, right?

That's right. That's right. We have some trading cards as well. We're going to come out with a special trade set of trading cards that commemorate these players this holiday season.

Oh, that's cool. So tell me who did you did the ABA basketball that it, was it just sitting in limbo with no ownership or did you have to go find who actually had the rights and then negotiate that out? How did that work?

Well, the rights were just out there and available. Anybody can make a red, white and blue basketball. But in order to make a red, white and blue basketball that is an exact replica of the league ball, we had to re establish the trademark rights to the ball. We had to contact the George Mikin family to get permission to put the George Mika name as commissioner on the ball. And and then ultimately we ended up becoming a licensee of the NBA for that purpose.

And you know, forgive me for being a complete ABA geek, but in nerding out on this, but any idea like who designed the ball? Why was it red, white? I mean, I think I probably know why it was red, white and blue. But is there a story about the creation of that ball?

There is. It was George Mikin. So when the ABA came into existence in 1967, they, they came into existence to compete with the NBA. And in order to compete back in those days, before streaming, before the Internet, you know, we had what, three national channels at the time and that was the only, that was the only choice you had. And the NBA had one of those channels for a few television games. The ABA didn't have television rights so everything was going to come down to excitement. You know, what could you do to compete with the NBA at that time? And George Mikin was hired as the first commissioner of the league. He was one of the top 50 all time NBA players in history. And he came in and said, hey, how do we liven up this league? And one of the very first things he did was he said, let's play with a red, white and blue basketball. That's going to signify player independence and flair and the type of basketball we're going to play, which is going to be much more above the rim, much more run and gun style, a little bit less defense and a lot more offense.

I love it. Which is what we see obviously a lot today. Right.

Today's NBA for sure.

Did you ever get to meet George Mikin?

I did not. I have a chance through Atlanta Sports. I have a chance to work with his family, which has been phenomenal.

Right.

And so I talked to a son.

And so did he pass?

He did.

And was he, when he a seven footer or seven, two or something huge.

He was. He was the first seven footer, I believe, in the NBA. Oh, my God. Yeah, he was a. He was a force, major force.

So we got the rights to the basketball.

And.

Now the next thing that hits your mind is what started, what was the impetus to bring the attitude of I need to help some of these ABA players. Where did the dropping dimes originate from?

Well, one thing, this is such a group effort. It's why I appreciate it so much. It's why it's so near and dear to my heart, because it really wasn't me. I appreciate you saying that. And I've had a lot of people because I've been the name piece for the foundation. I'm a co founder and I tend to be our, you know, the face of the foundation publicly. But. But when I was doing some legal work for a guy named Ted Green, a really talented film producer, a documentary filmmaker here In Indianapolis back 10 years ago, my firm and I were doing the pro bono work for him as he was doing the Roger Brown story. Undefeated is what it was called, an amazing film.

Right.

So he then brings me together with a guy named John Abrams, who's a doctor, an eye surgeon here in town, and former ball boy for the Pacers. And once Ted introduced me to John, the three of us started in, you know, naturally, because of the subject matter of Ted's film, we're meeting, you know, John already knew these guys, but Ted and I are meeting all these childhood heroes of ours, right? And Darnell Hillman and George McGinnis and Bob Nedolicki and Mel Daniels. And it didn't take long before Mel Daniels and I really clicked. I think that happened at one of the fundraisers we did for Ted's film. And you know, to. And Mel was somebody I knew from my childhood, but he's such a powerful force. You know, he's got this. He had, he passed in 2015, but he had this very deep, deep voice and he had this handshake that felt like he was just going to crush every bone in your hand and. But yet he had a gentle presence. He had a gentle side to him. And he just kept kind of with a fire talking to me and John about how angry he was that the NBA doesn't recognize that today's NBA is really the aba. And he's the one who started, you know, getting this, this attitude in John and I that wow, like something right, not right is happening here. Right. If this guy who, who's a Hall of Famer and played in both the ABA and the NBA and, and an all time great is angry with the NBA, something's not right. And so that kind of led us down this journey of okay, well, let's take Mel's attitude and let's figure out why he's got that kind of an attitude. And the more I did research into it and I saw the history and I saw what the ABA guys brought to the league, the NBA and then realized they are not being given health care benefits, they're not being given retirement benefits like, like a heritage league should. That's what led to the formation of Dropping Dimes Foundation. And John Abrams and I co founded the Dropping Dimes foundation as a tax exempt charity with a specific mission to provide, to try to protect the heritage and provide dignity and support for the ABA players and possibly down the road convince the NBA to give them health care benefits and, and pension money.

I love it. So. And we'll dig, we'll dig into that a little bit more as well. When number one, Mel Daniels is certainly was certainly a scary looking guy for sure. Big, strong and just is super imposing on the basketball court. What was his attitude? Maybe his on the court attitude and off the court attitude, were they different? And do you know any backstory on him? Where did he come from or why do you think he became who he became?

I do. I mean, I got to know him really well. I'm very proud of the fact that in that very short period of time I got to spend a lot of time with him those couple of years. I'm proud to call, to have called him a friend and I viewed him as a tremendous protector. Right. Because you talk to the other players, you see, you see film footage, which is fairly rare, but you see the film footage and he's such a beast. You know, he looks like such a monster. And the other players always referred to him as, hey, if there was a fight on the floor, it was starting with Mel. And if he wasn't in it at the beginning, he was in it immediately afterward. Right. And sort of had this reputation for being the guy who fought, you know, fist bot more than anybody else in the league. And he led the league in rebounding, you know, ferocious rebounder at 6 foot 9. Yeah. And so that's, that's, that's who you know he is capable of being. And he's got the deep voice. He's going to crush your hand no matter what, you know, when he first meets you. But then you realize he writes poems. He cares deeply for players who are less fortunate. He cares deeply for the league. And, and he's just a tremendously protective guy. And so for me, I have a very soft spot growing up on the east side of town. I know you grew up, you know, you're very similar. But I have a very soft spot for people who are strong, like truly strong and capable of being very protective and use it for good and are protective. And that's what Mel was.

And so droppingdimesfoundation.org is the website droppingdimes.org all right. Droppingdimes.org if you are a lover of the ABA, if you love what you're seeing in the NBA today, it's because of the folks that Scott has represented. And we're going to talk a little bit about the Heartland Film Festival and this show that was, I believe it was awarded number one documentary at the Heartland Film Festival, is that correct?

It was. It won. This is another extremely talented filmmaker I've gotten to know who's here. Local is Michael Hussain. And he did this wonderful film called the Waiting Game. And he did it about the journey of the Dropping Dimes foundation seeking health care and pension benefits for the players. And it was at the Heartland Film Festival last month and it won the People's Choice best documentary award, which is unreal.

I love it. And so I would encourage you. Where can you find that now? Is it just online if you.

No, right now it's not available. I mean, he's looking. He did this on his own. He's a true. He's somebody else. You ought to have on your podcast sometime because talk about somebody with attitude. He went out and produced the film while he had the opportunity, you know, following us around. It could have been a huge failure. He didn't know when he started, we didn't know what was going to happen. Right. But he captured all the, all the behind the scenes stuff leading up to the very surprising moment that the NBA gave the $25 million benefit to these players. And he, he captured it. All right. But he, in order to do that, he had, it had to come out of his own pocket.

Right.

It's an independent film. He paid for it. So he's now searching for distribution. And that boy that start he got at Heartland Film Festival. Hopefully will propel him to do it.

You know, that reminds me of our producer that's sitting right here, Jason. Does that sound like somebody you know?

Yeah.

And actually you were talking about Ted Green. We interviewed him years ago for his Ava documentary and then ran into him just a few months ago in Broad Ripple at Broad Ripple Tavern. So we had a few drinks then too. So, yeah, great guy.

Well, I was thinking about what you did for the warriors when the Walk Across America. Didn't you kind of do that same thing?

Yeah, yeah.

Four months. Four months out, Atlantic City, New Jersey to San Francisco, California. Three thousand. What was it? Three thousand? I don't know. Thousands of miles.

Yeah.

That was amazing. Lifetime opportunity.

You filmmakers are nuts. But yeah, thank you. We will need to get him in. So let's get back to the Waiting Game. And I saw it, it was fantastic. And Scott's kind of the main guy. He was all humble like he always is, and he didn't even tell us. And my wife and I show up to the Heartland Film Festival. I'm like, oh, my God, this things about Scott. It's awesome. So in, you know, in your words. I, I mean, I know what I want to say, but I'm the one interviewing you. Obviously you were proud of it. Obviously the story was extremely well told. Why don't you tell our listeners, the people that are listening now, what the. What the Waiting Game is. What was the premise of the 90 minute documentary and. And just maybe walk us through that in. In a couple minutes. And the nuances, you know, what you caught up, the difference between merger and expansion and what that really meant to everybody. It's such a powerful and unbelievable story. Let's go ahead and just hear it from, from your words from the start of the show.

It's pretty cool, you know, especially if you're interested in local or sort of midwestern stories. It's pretty cool. Michael came, met me through Atlanta Sports. He. We were doing a fundraiser for Dropping Dimes and selling some T shirts, Darnell Hillman T shirts. He bought one and he and I met so that he could buy the shirt. And we started talking and he asked me about dropping Dimes. Why are the funds going there? I explained it to him. That led to him saying, hey, I'd like to do maybe a short independent film on the story of the Dropping Dimes foundation. Right. If you've. We got this little local charity that is. Is formed by two local Indianapolis guys, you know, John and I, and we have a Hall of Fame cast on our advisory board that includes Artist Gilmore and Julius Irving and, and, and George McGinnis and Slick Leonard and, you know, Spencer Haywood and Bob Costas and Peter Vessi. So he's going, this is crazy. And I said, well, it's a brotherhood. It's the brotherhood of the ABA that's coming together here with dropping dimes. And it's a brotherhood that's trying to make this happen where the NBA will support these guys. So he said, let's. Can I do a short on it? And, and of course, being a lawyer, I immediately said, well, you know, I'm engaged in some pretty substantial discussions with the NBA and we think we're going to get him to do it. I don't want you to screw it up. So we made him sign in. I feel terrible about it now, but we made him sign an NDA. We said, you know, we don't know what you're going to do, but one thing you can't do is release something that's going to hurt the cause. So we really treated him a little bit like a pariah at first. And he's kind of following us around, taking footage and we're going, what's he even going to do with this? And then, and then after a while it became pretty dramatic stuff. Right, because. Because the NBA told us they were going to do something about this. And then all of a sudden you got an 18 month, two year delay in them doing something. And it was us getting more and more urgent in our discussions with the NBA. Guys started dying off. They started dying quickly. We lost 10 guys during that intervening 18 to 24 month period.

Wow.

And Mike was capturing all this on film and that's what led to the story being called the Waiting Game.

Yeah.

And then ultimately, you know, there's this feel good ending because the NBA finally came through and the NBA and the NBA Players association provided these recognition benefits for the ABA guy. So he captured all that in a really cool feel good story, the Downer. And I'll. I won't go into this in too much detail because I want people to watch it. But the downer is that because of some legal nuances that are total bs, in my opinion. They did not cover all the players. But you have to see the movie to understand why. But it was a very bittersweet victory.

Yeah, I do, I do remember that. What was it like and what was your attitude on the first phone call or letter? Like, you know, what was the first salvo when you said, okay, here we go, I'M gonna, Did you call them? Did you write a letter? Did you show up on their door and like, what was your attitude when on that very first engagement going against cnba? I mean, you're seen as this, hey, we got this hick Indiana attorney taking on Wall Street. 25 different attorneys in New York and here's, here comes Scott from little old Indiana. Moseann, tell me about that first engagement. What was that like?

Well, at first it was all of us together. It was the entire advisory, it was John and I and Ted, the entire advisory board doing whatever we could. Right? We're going, let's talk to them. Let's, let's, let's write, let's reach out on LinkedIn to players. Let's do whatever we can to try to get the story to them. And we were running into the problem you would expect. You know, you got a multi billion dollar multinational corporation and you got players getting paid $100 million. And we're trying to say, hey, can we talk to you about something that happened 50 years ago that's important in your history? And nobody would listen. And we couldn't get anybody's attention. Neto and I actually at one point, to show you some, some attitude, Ned, Alicky and I, Bob Nedeliki and I actually at one point he did some underground research and figured out that Chris Paul, who then was the president of the players union, that's the NBA Players association, that he and the Houston Rockets at the time were going to be in town playing the Pacers. And he found out that they were staying at the Conrad. So he and I went undercover, sort of. We went to the bar at the Conrad and we sat there because we got some information from a friend about, about when their arrival was going to be. They were off by a couple hours. And so Netto and I drank a couple of beers, waited in the bar until the team bus pulled up and Neto ran over and grabbed Mike d' Antoni who played in the aba. And, and so we grabbed him and Chris Paul and we sort of did this gorilla, guys, you've got to listen to us. But that didn't even work. Wow. So, you know, ultimately we had a player who, whose death unfortunately became national news because of the circumstances. A guy named George Carter, who died without family, dropping dimes, had to step in and, and, and, and sign a contract to take control of his, of his remains so that we could arrange for him to be buried at his alma mater in New York at Saint Bonaventure versus having a pauper's grave in Las Vegas.

Yeah.

It became a national news story thanks to Dana Hunsinger Benbow here in. In Indianapolis at the Star. And that caused Bob cost us on our board to get pissed off enough that he said, hey, this is the time. I'm pulling the chip. I'm going to call Adam. And he did call Adam, and then he called me back, and he's very humble guy, but he called me back and said, hey, you're going to hear from the president of the league soon. And within 24 hours, the President of the NBA reached out to me. And that's when we started our conversation this night. And I had that oh, shit moment that you just mentioned.

Right, so. So do you remember that first conversation and how you approached it? Did you hit him with questions like an attorney would, or did you try to tug on the heartstrings? What. Just, you know, what was that like? I mean, Adam Silver freaking calling you on the phone? That's kind of crazy.

It wasn't Adam. It was. He's the commissioner, of course, but this was the president of the league, who was a guy named Bob Crickey. Oh, yeah. And he's the one who called me, and we had a fantastic conversation, you know, because I decided, instead of approaching it like a lawyer, the best way to approach this would be to somewhat, you know, do. Do this as an animal. Right. If.

If I'm.

If the bigger dog's coming up on me and I want to have play, I don't want to get killed. So I'm going to try kind of expose myself first, maybe roll over on my back. And so we. We had a really nice conversation about what the ABA meant to the NBA. And I told him that I had done a tremendous amount of research into the merger and that I now understood that despite what a lot of the players were saying publicly, the NBA did not, in my opinion, have a legal obligation to support them, but that this was more of a moral obligation. And that's the way I wanted to approach it. And we had a great conversation to start with.

And so he was an ABA fan?

Yeah, sure was.

I was sitting in the sauna today and mentioning that I was going to be interviewing you. Do you know that the. There was an ABA team that actually got paid. And I'm wondering if you know who it was, because we looked it up on Google this morning. But an ABA team, one of the only ones that got paid after the merger, quote, unquote.

Merger.

You know who it was?

There are two of them. So One was the Kentucky Colonels. And John Y. Brown and the Kentucky Colonels took $3 million in cash, which he then used to turn around and purchase the Buffalo Braves who were playing in the NBA. And in a weird twist, I don't want to take up too much time with this I'm a geek out at pro basketball, pro basketball crap. But he then, you. He then got an opportunity to buy the Celtics. And so John Y. Brown, former owner of The Kentucky Colonels, 1975 ABA champs, he bought the Braves and the NBA with the money the NBA paid him out to make the merger happen. Wow. And then he had a chance to buy the Celtics. He bought them and it lasted just long enough for Red R back to say, I'm not gonna. I'm my boss is not gonna be the guy that started Kentucky Fried Chicken and a guy from Kentucky. So that didn't work. So they got paid 3 million and. But the guys who really hit the jackpot were, were the, the owners of The Spirits of St. Louis.

Yes.

And they're the ones who cut the deal of the century and made, you know, upwards of $600 million over time by taking a portion of the TV and streaming revenues, which back in 1976. Right. It seemed like, so what? Right. Yeah. You want that forever? Take it. But that turned into a 600 million dollar deal plus.

And, and, but that has ceased. Correct.

They settled. My understanding. You know, it's all confidential, but my understanding is they kept a tiny little piece of the funnel going, but that the vast majority of the case settled for a set amount a couple years ago.

So who had the coolest uniforms in the aba in your opinion?

Man, there were some cool unis in that league, but I. Yeah, you'd have to go with maybe the Memphis sounds.

Okay.

Who had a big S that was in the shape of a musical note?

Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that would make sense. That's good. I like that. All right, well, let's talk about next year. What's coming out that you're also involved with is an Amazon. It's going to be. Are we all right to say this?

Yeah. Yep.

So it's going to be an Amazon movie featured film called Soul Power. Do you want to tell us a little bit about Soul Power and how that all got started?

Yeah, yeah. They decided Amazon prime is coming out. It's actually, they've decided to go with a four part docu series. So there'll be four episodes that we'll tell starting in episode one, The. The beginning of the league the beginning of the ABA and how it formed the backdrop to it, which is fascinating. And then that'll go on into four different episodes that kind of culminate in what we just talked about. They kind of culminate in this reckoning of the NBA saying, hey, yeah, the ABA meant a lot and we're going to take care of these guys to, to the extent we can right now.

And it's so, it's got awesome highlights in it too.

Awesome highlights. These guys, these, these guys. So the director is a guy named Kenan Kamwala and he, he is, he is something special because, because he, he took a whole lot of complicated history and politics from the 60s and the 70s and he, and he really does a great job of, of showing how, how he, how, how the basketball of the time in the American Basketball association reflected all of these cultural changes that were going on in the 60s and 70s. You know, the sexual revolution, racial rights, women's rights. I mean the whole nine yards is all sort of wrapped up in this story of this crazy wild independent league. He did it. He did an unbelievable job. The executive producers are Julius Irving and George Carl, a guy named Todd Lieberman and a guy named. See, I think I get them all. I'm going to miss somebody. I know, but, but anyway, this is a fabulous four part series that your viewers aren't going to want to miss. I think it's going to come out on Amazon prime in December of 2024. I'm sorry, of 2025 or January of 2026.

And so what's the thought on holding this off the market for a year? Is it the 50th anniversary of the NBA? Maybe. Is that what it is? Or that's it?

Because, you know, shooting, I'm an associate producer along with, you know, about 5,000. But it was originally that all the shooting stopped and the final editing was done two years ago. So I, you know, I'm not privy to everything that's going on, but I think part of it was the Amazon NBA deal.

Yeah.

Just signed a few months ago. That multibillion dollar deal. Yeah. And so I think people were waiting to see where that was going to shake out. And once it, once it happened, then I think the NBA probably came in and said if we're going to release this awesome epic ABA's docuseries, let's do it on the 50th anniversary of the merger.

Yeah, that's cool. So you've mentioned some pretty, pretty elite company that you've been able to meet and weave through and talk to and engage with. And so what I kind of want to do is just ask you, before we do our knowledge through the decades segment, is the attitude lesson of some of these people. Dr. J. What would the attitude lesson be that you learned from him? When you think of Dr. J.

I had an amazing opportunity to sit down with. With Julius Irving in Atlanta, where he lives, and. And dine with him at a steakhouse and drink some cognac with him. And then he invited me to smoke a cigar with him afterwards in a. In a private smoking area. Such a nice guy. He drove me home in his Rolls Royce, his vintage Rolls Royce, back to my hotel, insisted on it because wouldn't let me take an Uber. And what I took away from it is that he recognizes and remembers his roots. He remembers his roots at UMass. He remembers his roots in the ABA. And despite his unbelievable success on the court and after basketball, the ABA and the guys who never got the recognition they deserve mean a ton to him. So in the end, he was the highest profile of these ABA brothers that I got to know.

Yeah.

Who. Who used his strength, his fame, you know, to promote others. He was on our advisory board. He. He just. He's. He's. He's a protector, just like Mel.

What. When you think about the brotherhood, I just get it now. The American Brotherhood association, the aba.

That's.

I love it. Who in that league or whether you knew him or didn't know him, exemplified, you know, what's the story of one of the ABA players that, whether you knew him or did know him, that overcame incredible odds to end up, you know, making it or. Or doing it? Who. Who comes to mind with that type of thing for you?

Man, I would. You know, I hate to sound like such a hometowner, but I'm gonna have to, because. Because just the way you set that question up, the first name that popped into my head was George McGinnis. Oh, wow. We've already talked about Mel. And Mel came from Detroit, inner city Detroit, Pershing High School, ended up in New Mexico, University of New Mexico, which was a powerhouse at the time. And, you know, and Julius went from UMass, obviously, into the ABA and the Nets and the NBA. But George was a local Indianapolis guy who played at Washington High School, was part of an undefeated, I believe, undefeated, but certainly a state championship high school team and played football in high school. And his. He lost his father when he was a high schooler.

Oh, wow.

And had to take care of his mom. And that factored into a decision, you know, he went to play at iu. He just missed the Bobby Knight era, but he still holds records today at IU as a freshman. And then because of the need to protect his mother and the fact that his mother, his father was gone and there, there were some financial struggles, he signed with the ABA. Wow. In 1971. And when he did that, there was no opportunity to do that with the NBA. Because the aba, in addition to the other things we've talked about. The ABA is the league that gave us the hardship rule. It's the league that brought young men in that we see today. That was the ABA that did that. So they gave George a chance to make some money for his mom and his family.

Wow.

By leaving iu. So that's why he left IU after only one year and then ultimately becomes, you know, the co MVP of the aba along with Julius Irving. Such a stud with the Indiana Pacers, you know, a champion, two time ABA champion with the Pacers. You know, played in the 77 NBA Finals with Julius Irving when he played for the Portland Trailblazers. Yeah, I mean there's a, there's a, you know, story of somebody with some attitude who kept hitting adversity Right. Leading up to the death of his father and just saying, hey, I'm going to use this to copitude. That's going to be positive.

Yeah, that's really. That, that's cool. I was fortunate enough. You were. I was fortunate enough to be introduced to Darnell Hellman from you. One of, truly one of my childhood heroes. And he also had a choice to sign NBA or aba. And I just, it just got me thinking, my God, to be a young man and go, okay, am I going to go with this new league called the ABA or this or the existing NBA and how Darnell ended up in the ABA and why people chose the aba. Do you want to just talk about or share about the, the folks, you know, who had to make the decision? Some. Somewhat to the NBA, somewhat the ab. But that had to be so hard on a young man.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and Darnell Hillman was my favorite player when I was a kid. His rookie year was the year I turned 10 and he was my all time favorite, you know, with the big afro and just the stylish dunks he had. And he's, and he's my closest friend in the city today, which is extremely fortunate for me because he's, he's, he's an incredible guy. But yeah, he had a chance to play for the Golden State warriors and that's Another thing the ABA did, Glenn, that, you know, that people don't recognize and the NBA should recognize more particularly NBA players, is that when you have two leagues at that level and the end, and the ABA is, is. Is proving itself as a very viable alternative and competitor to the NBA, that then raised the salaries like, like exponentially because players like Darnell Hillman and Rick Barry could come to. And by the way, Rick Berry was Golden State warriors versus versus The Oakland Oaks of the aba.

Wow.

And ultimately he signed with the Oakland Oaks of the ABA after his rookie season in the NBA, where he was the rookie of the year. And so the NBA had to take notice. Salaries are skyrocketing because of the player's ability to negotiate like you just mentioned. And you know, Oscar Robertson, ultimately, as Player Player association president of the NBA in 1970, prevented a merger because at that time, the owners of the two leagues wanted the merger to stop the salaries from skyrocketing. Right? And oddly, here's the. Here are the players suing an antitrust lawsuit saying, no, no, no, we like the two leagues because we keep getting more and more money. Right? That's the ABA that did that. I'd like some of these NBA players to, to understand that and step up. For these older ABA guys, that is.

Truly a fantastic story and I want to respect your time, but we're going to do this little thing that we always do at the end of our podcast. And thanks, Scott, for sharing with us. And again, if you want to learn more about Scott and what he does, dropping dimes.org you can go buy basketballs for Christmas. All that money goes to Atlanta Sports, goes to dropping dimes. You can watch Waiting game whenever we get this out. And hopefully next year you're going to check out Soul Power. Scott is in all of these. One other person, Bob Costas. What's the attitude lesson from Bob Costas?

Humility. I mean, you know, Bob, I almost, you know, I mean, I'm sweating bullets talking to him for the first time, right? I mean, it's Bob Costas. And this is. Even he's stepped down from some of these national positions he's had recently. But when I first dealt with him 10 years ago, I'm thinking, holy crap. I mean, I'm getting ready to call Bob Costas and, and, and he's so humble. He's the guy. He is one guy where if today I wanted to call him and tell him that we've got a player in desperate straits and I really need his guidance about what we should do. He would take my call, take, you know, in a heartbeat. Wow. And he would help out somebody from the aba. He's just. He's just an amazing guy.

That's awesome.

Who wants credit for it? Glenn never wants credit.

Yeah, well, you never heard him talk about it, so that's cool. So Gappers, that we. That's what we call our listeners, the gappers. Gappers. Obviously, hopefully you were entertained with these stories from the Great Scott Tarter, and. And hopefully that if you have a dream inside of you, if you see a need, if you see people that need help, understand that Scott started with nothing. But it was the power of people, the power of attitude, the power of stick to itiveness that allowed him to go from I'm just a single guy trying to do this with some partners to, boom, giving $25 million to 140 ABA players. If he can do it, Gappers, so can you. Let's just get to know Scott. Scott, this is just a real quick, fun little thing we do. It's called knowledge through the Decades. And I'm going to ask you, I've asked you about the attitude lessons of all these famous people that you've known, but we like to get to know you as a person. And so we always do this thing called knowledge through the Decades. But when you think about the attitude lesson, and you have four children, right, or five?

Four.

Four. Let's start at birth. What's the attitude lesson of birth or new beginnings for the parent?

What's the attitude lesson?

Yeah. For the parent or whatever. Yeah.

Well, it was a lot different when I had my first one than it was when I had my fourth one, I'll tell you that much. But. But I would say you've got to be prepared. If you're talking about the attitude change, you have to start. The attitude has to change from, you know, what are you able to do for other folks and for other people, what are you able to do in that regard to, hey, wait a minute, what are we able to. What am I able to do for this human being here who's going to grow up and be able to impact so many other people? What can I do for this child who's so much in your heart? And to make them have that kind of attitude and then. And then everything else takes a backseat, to be honest with you. That's good.

That's one is the tough one. That gets easier. Now I want you to think about being 10, right? This is called knowledge. You're 10. Where'd you go to school? Who was your teacher and what was your attitude lesson at 10? Like, what happened at 10 that you can kind of remember that you go, oh, that changed me. I remember that.

Well, let's say 10. That would have put me with that. Maybe fourth grade.

Yeah. Third or fourth.

Okay. So I would have been at IPS School 93 over there on 35th Street. About 35th and Shadeland.

Wow.

And my teacher was Mrs. Holt. She was. She was a. An African American teacher in that time period, which was a bit unusual and. But I remember looking up to her tremendously. I remember her being somebody that my. My mother always taught me that you'd have to have a significant level of ignorance to judge somebody based on the, The. The. The mel. Amount of melatonin in their skin.

Wow.

And she was somebody that. One of the first people I met who I went, you know, that's so tr. Difference does it make? And same time, you got to throw in Darnell, man, because I was playing basketball all the time. I was starting to love it. I was playing for the. For. For, you know, every team I could get on. And Darnell Hillman was the shit, man. He was unbelievable.

I love it. Same. Same with me. Let's go to 20 years old. Where. Where were you at 20? And what was the attitude lesson you garnered from being 2020?

I was at DePaul University. That would have been my senior year. Start of my senior year.

Big, big, big bell game. Big win this weekend, by the way.

Yep, yep, got it. I had to go to DePaul because my older brother went to Wabash. So it was a. It was. It was a fait accompli. Right. I had no choice. Right. But yeah, that was senior year, and I had made a transition from John Marshall High School on the east side and IPS to DePaul University, private college, you know, very little diversity at that time. And. Yeah, and my. I was learning how those two worlds can collide and how to adjust your attitude going from a public school in Indianapolis to a very private, high end private university in Greencastle, Indiana. Wow.

Yeah, that's. Did you get a scholarship to depart? Did you get to pay for it?

Everything I got, you know, scholarships, financial aid, grants, everything I could get.

You put your hand. All right, well, though, let's go to 30 years old. Where. Where were you at 30? And what was going on in your life and what was your attitude lesson when you hit 30?

30 was my first born son. I only had one at that point, and he was. And he became my world. That Was Matt, who's now 34, lives in San Diego, started his own business. I couldn't be any more proud of him. But that was 30 years old, was when I was getting serious about, hey, this world ain't about me. And it ain't about me and my wife even. It's about, it's about this kid.

Yeah, that's awesome. And then, boy, the 30s fly and then boom. The next thing you know, you're celebrating 40 years old. What were, what was going on with you at 40? What was the attitude lesson there?

Man, 40 was right about the time. So you really want me to. So, Right. It's just the truth. Right? Your listeners want the truth.

Yeah, well, trust me, we, we've had very famous people, very successful people go through and they're like, man, I haven't done this. This is like a freaking great exercise. So.

Yeah, well, so I'm giving you the truth. So the first thing that popped in my head was, wow, that was just before. So I had three kids at that point. That was just before a divorce.

Yeah.

And, and I was thinking, I was thinking to myself, wow, four. At 40, I'm in the throes of my career. I've got kids who are becoming teenagers and yeah, I would say 40s. The attitude is survival. Right. Because now you've got a long term marriage, you know, you know those are supposed to stay together. Yeah. That's why you go into them. But that becomes a struggle as we know. You get your kids who are now becoming, they're not little, cute little kids agree with everything now. Now they're teenagers with real world problems. So I'd say survival is the lesson of the 40s.

I love it and understand the people listening to this. There's plenty of people that are probably on the precipice of a divorce or maybe finish one. And to hear your story, to see your impact, to see 20 years later, it's going to be okay. And it is tough. And a lot of our people, invariably about half of our guests, the big D comes up usually 30, 40 or 50, whatever it is. So 40 years old, life put a whooping on you is what Les Brown used to say. Right. So then you go to 50. Right. And that's really probably when this stuff started happening for you, I'm guessing. So what's your attitude Lesson? Lesson from 50?

It was. But you know, but the 50s is sort of a similar lesson for at least, if you want to know from my perspective, that was a, the failure of a business. So I was A partner in a law firm. It was a smaller firm, a mid sized firm, 25 to 30 lawyers and that, be that, that company. And I was a partner in the firm and I was one of our managing partners and that firm, for economic reasons at that time, big firms were swallowing up the little firms and little firms were having trouble keeping up. And we fell victim to that. So we went, we were getting, you know, further and further down and that company ultimately dissolved. We got essentially acquired by a bigger firm, the one I'm at now. And that was rough. Being a managing partner of a firm that is falling apart. And you got all these people, you know, your mailroom folks, your staff. So maybe the lesson for me in the 50s was you better bring some more attitude because, because things are going to get even more serious. Because now you're not just talking about your kids and your survival, you're talking about other people, employees, their families, their kids. And that's on your shoulders in the 50s.

And that probably gave you some humility, I would guess, after that happens.

Right. Tremendous amount of humility.

And so I think you just turned 60.

Yep.

So you did great on the knowledge through the decades. What's the attitude lesson in the present for you? What's Scott Tarter looking over the next decade? What's the attitude that you're taking in?

You want to know? Okay, so here's what came into my mind. A good friend of mine recently told me when I did turn 60, it was a year after him, and I said to him, because I was, I was having kind of a bad day, health wise, I was thinking, this sucks. I'm, I've got a young attitude. And I was telling my back hurts, my knees hurt from basketball and blah, blah, blah. And he said, you know what, Scott? He goes, instead of painting a picture like you're like this, and now you're going like this because that's what you're doing. He said, imagine this is a roller coaster. He said, you know what you're doing now? You got nothing to lose, man. He's like, you got, you, you know, you got, you're playing with house money, right? You've had so much good fortune, you've had so much good luck, you've had so much good, good fortune in business with your family, with your kids. Freaking enjoy the ride, man. And so that's the attitude of the 60s is let's enjoy the ride.

I love it. I love it. Well, Scott, you've been a fantastic guest. Thanks for bringing it and bringing the brotherhood and the ABA and the fantastic stories, you just. You crushed it. And I think people are going to just love hearing this. I think it's going to hopefully promote what you're doing. It's going to promote all the films that you're involved with. And most of all, I just think it's going to get people thinking about a time 50 years ago that meant a lot. And hopefully my hope is for the listeners is that they investigate, maybe it's not the ABA, but what was going on 50 years ago, and try to learn the lesson, because I'm sure the ABA is not the only one. We always like to have you finish with just a message of hope, Scott. There's people out there maybe walking on the beach right now, sitting in their car, crying, that just lost their business, that just got a divorce. What's your message of hope to the people that are listening to us right now?

Right now? I would say, you know, for any of you who are experiencing that right now, just know, number one, is a little bit of a cliche, but it's true that tomorrow when you wake up, it will be better.

Better.

Okay, that's number one. But number two, focus more on what you have. Focus more on what you've done. Focus more on the impacts you've had in the past, and especially focus on the impacts and the gratitude you can have in the future that are within your own control.

I love it. He started with gratitude. He ended with gratitude. We are grateful that you showed up on the Get Attitude podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, that was Scott Tarter. He is one of the founders of the Dropping Dimes Foundation. Please support him. Please check out his film. Scott, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, Glenn. Thanks for having me on.

All right, brother.