https://www.listennotes.com/e/bf0df2a5640b48a8be5ac0f50d5b33d3

In a world full of turmoil, despair and darkness, you need to carry the light. Season three of the Get Attitude Podcast is where we will ignite your mind, your heart and your attitude. And welcome to the GAP, the Get Attitude Podcast, the gap bridging the gap from who you are to who you wish to become and from where you are to where you wish to go. Hi, my name is Glenn Bell, founder of the University of Attitude, keynote speaker and author of the international best-selling book, the ABCs of Attitude. I've been fortunate enough to help tens of thousands of people get attitude. Attitude is the secret formula to success, not only in your business, but in your life. And this podcast will help you get yours. So let's get some. Welcome everyone. Please remember to subscribe, hit the like button, rate us, review us, and especially if you like what we're doing today, share this podcast out with all your friends and all your social media. Today we're here with a gentleman who started and bridged the gap from having an idea to ultimately raising $25 or $24 million for a group of individuals known as the ABa basketball players. So without further ado, we want to bring up attorney and dropping dimes foundation founder, Mr. Scott Tartar. Scott, welcome to the Get Attitude podcast.

Thank you very much, Glenn. Good afternoon, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah.

Well, it's our pleasure and certainly your story of what you've done for these wonderful basketball players needs to be talked about. But more importantly, There's people that are out there that are listening to us that maybe have an idea like you had and have a dream of turning that idea into something that really benefits people and has an impact on the masses. So what we always like to do though is get to know you just a little bit. And our first question is always pretty much the same. When you think of attitude or your definition of attitude, How do you define attitude?

I'd say I define attitude as, and I'm not trying to rhyme here, I promise, but I define attitude as gratitude. Because I think if you have gratitude for what you're able to do, whether it's your health, whether it's your success in business, whether it's other strengths that you have, whatever that is, you should have gratitude for it. And I think the gratitude that you have for life and for yourself and for the people who surround you, leads to the attitude.

Oh, that's awesome. That's good. And when you think back on your life, who was your first attitude coach or who, who, who do you think gave you your attitude or where was your attitude most molded?

Man, not to be sound like a cliche, but 100 without question. That was my mom. Oh, cool. You know, we lost her 2008, so it's been a long time, but, boy, she, she, you know, I grew up in a working class neighborhood on the east side of Indianapolis, and she was always the she was always the one that was the rock for other kids in the neighborhood. My brother, my sister. Yeah, she's the one who talked to me about life. She was the rock.

I like it. And so this was Lana, correct? Lana.

Right.

And so you have something called Lana Sports. Do you want to tell us a little bit about Lana Sports? Obviously it's named after her. Obviously she had a big impact on your attitude and we may drill down on that a little bit. But tell us a little bit about Lana Sports and what that is.

Well, it was just a little bit of a crazy idea that came to mind about eight, seven or eight years ago to bring back the American Basketball Association basketball. And there was some possibility that that would get me sideways with the NBA. I couldn't find any other of my buddies who were willing to take that risk. And I thought, well, if I'm going to go ahead and do it, take a risk, I'm certainly going to name it after the person who gave me the inspiration to do something eccentric. And so that's how it became Atlanta Sports. And so now today we actually We did get sued by the NBA, but we were able to negotiate a friendly settlement that gave us a royalty. And now we, in a friendly relationship with the NBA, we make the American Basketball Association basketball, and then we donate all the proceeds. All of our profits go to the Dropping Dimes Foundation.

Oh, that's awesome. So you, obviously, big ABA fan, as am I, as is I'm sure people who are listening. so, Lena sports started with your desire to take the ABA basketball and bring it back. Is that what you're telling me?

Yeah. Yeah. That's the original red, white and blue basketball. That's the. The basketball that brought back the three-point shot into today's NBA. I mean, it started off in the ABA and came to the NBA. It's the basketball that originated the slam dunk competition during All-Star weekend. So it represented excitement. It represented integration of professional basketball in the sixties and seventies. independence, player independence and autonomy. So it means a lot if you live through that era. And this is the only Atlanta Sports is the only place you can buy it. And all of our profits do go to the Dripping Dimes Foundation.

I like it. So if you want to own an official ABA basketball, all you gotta do is go to what? AtlantaSports.com and start buying, right?

That's right. That's right. We have some trading cards as well. We're gonna come out with a special set of trading cards that commemorate these players. this holiday season.

Oh, that's cool. So tell me, who did you, did the ABA basketball that it, was it just sitting in limbo with no ownership, or did you have to go find who actually had the rights and then negotiate that out? How did that work?

Well, the rights were just out there and available. Anybody can make a red, white and blue basketball. But in order to make a red, white and blue basketball, that is an exact replica of the league ball. We had to reestablish the trademark rights to the ball. We had to contact the George Mikan family to get permission to put the George Mikan name as commissioner on the ball. And then ultimately we ended up becoming a licensee of the NBA for that purpose.

And forgive me for being a complete ABA geek and nerding out on this, but any idea who designed the ball? Why was it red white? I think I probably know. White was red, white and blue, but is there a story about the creation of that ball?

There is. It was George Mikan. So when the ABA came into existence in 1967, they came into existence to compete with the NBA. And in order to compete back in those days before streaming, before the internet, we had, what, three national channels at the time? And that was the only choice you had. And the NBA had one of those channels for a few television games. The ABA didn't have television rights. so everything was going to come down to excitement, you know, what could you do to compete with the NBA at that time? And George Mikan was hired as the first commissioner of the league. He was one of the top 50 all-time NBA players in history. And he came in and said, hey, how do we liven up this league? And one of the very first things he did was he said, let's play with a red, white and blue basketball that's going to signify player independence and flare. and the type of basketball we're going to play, which is going to be much more above the rim, much more run and gun style, a little bit less defense and a lot more offense.

I love it. Which is what we see obviously a lot today, right?

Today's NBA for sure.

Did you ever get to meet George Mikan?

I did not. I have a chance through Atlanta sports. I have a chance to work with his family, which has been phenomenal. Right. I talked to his son.

And so did he pass?

He did.

And was he a seven-footer or seven-two or something huge?

He was. He was the first seven-footer, I believe, in the NBA. Oh my God. Yeah, he was a major force.

So we got the rights to the basketball, and now the next thing that hits your mind is what? What started, what was the impetus to bring the attitude of I need to help some of these ABA players? Where did the dropping dimes originate from?

Well, one thing, this is such a group effort. It's why I appreciate it so much. It's why it's so near and dear to my heart because it really wasn't me. I appreciate you saying that. And I've had a lot of people, because I've been the name piece for the foundation. I'm a co-founder and I tend to be our, the face of the foundation publicly. But when I was doing some legal work for a guy named Ted Green, a really talented film producer, a documentary filmmaker here in Indianapolis back 10 years ago, my firm and I were doing the pro bono work for him as he was doing the Roger Brown story, Undefeated is what it was called, an amazing film. So he then brings me together with a guy named John Abrams, who's a doctor, an eye surgeon here in town. and former ball boy for the Pacers. And once Ted introduced me to John, the three of us started in, you know, naturally because of the subject matter of Ted's film, we're meeting, you know, John already knew these guys, but Ted and I are meeting all these childhood heroes of ours, right? And Darnell Hillman and George McGinnis and Bob Niedriecki and Mel Daniels. And it didn't take long before Mel Daniels and I really clicked. I think that happened at one of the fundraisers we did for Ted's Ted and Mel was somebody I knew from my childhood, but he's such a powerful force, you know, he's got this, he had, he passed in 2015, but he had this very deep, deep voice and he had this handshake that felt like he was just going to crush every bone in your hand. And, but yet he had a gentle presence, he had a gentle side to him. And he just kept kind of with a fire talking to me and John about how angry he was that the NBA doesn't recognize that today's NBA is really the ABA. And he's the one who started getting this attitude in John and I that, wow, something not right is happening here. If this guy who was a hall of famer and played in both the ABA and the NBA and an all-time great is angry with the NBA, something's not right. And so that kind of led us down this journey of, okay, well, let's take Mel's attitude and let's figure out why he's got that kind of an attitude. And the more I did research into it and I saw the history and I saw what the ABA guys brought to the league, the NBA, and then realized they are not being given health care benefits, they're not being given retirement benefits like a Heritage League should. That's what led to the formation of Dropping Dimes Foundation. And John Abrams and I co-founded the Dropping Dimes Foundation as a tax exempt charity. with a specific mission to try to protect the heritage and provide dignity and support for the ABA players and possibly down the road, convince the NBA to give them health care benefits and pension money.

I love it. And we'll dig into that a little bit more as well. Number one, Mel Daniels was certainly a scary looking guy for sure. Big, strong, and just is super imposing on the basketball court. What was his attitude? Maybe his on the court attitude and off the court attitude, were they different? And do you know any backstory on him? Where did he come from? Or why do you think he became who he became?

I do. I mean, I got to know him really well. I'm very proud of the fact that in that very short period of time, I got to spend a lot of time with him those couple of years. I'm proud to have called him a friend. and I viewed him as a tremendous protector, right? Because you talk to the other players, you see film footage, which is fairly rare, but you see the film footage and he's such a beast. He looks like such a monster. And the other players always referred to him as, hey, if there was a fight on the floor, it was starting with Mel. And if he wasn't in it at the beginning, he was in it immediately afterward. And I would have this reputation for being the guy who fought fistfight more than anybody else in the league. and he led the league in rebounding, ferocious rebounder at 6'9. And so that's who you know he is capable of being, and he's got the deep voice, and he's gonna crush your hand no matter what, when he first meets you. But then you realize he writes poems. He cares deeply for players who are less fortunate. He cares deeply for the league, and he's just a tremendously protective guy. For me, I have a very soft spot growing up on the east side of town. I know you grew up, you know, you're very similar, but I have a very soft spot for people who are strong, like truly strong and capable of being very protective and use it for good and are protective. And that's what Mel was.

And so droppingdimesfoundation.org is the website?

Droppingdimes.org.

All right, droppingdimes.org. If you are a lover of the ABA, if you love what you're seeing in the NBA today, it's because of the folks that Scott has represented. And we're going to talk a little bit about the Heartland Film Festival and this show that was, I believe it was awarded number one documentary at the Heartland Film Festival. Is that correct?

It was. It won, this is another extremely talented filmmaker I've gotten to know who's here local as Michael Hussain. And he did this wonderful film called the Waiting Game. And he did it about the journey of the Dropping Dimes Foundation seeking health care and pension benefits for the players. and it was at the Heartland Film Festival last month and it won the People's Choice Best Documentary Award, which is unreal.

I love it. And so I would encourage you, where can you find that now? Is it just online?

No, right now it's not available. I mean, he's looking, he did this on his own. He's a true, he's somebody else you ought to have on your podcast sometime because talk about somebody with attitude. He went out and produced the film While he had the opportunity, you know, following us around, it could have been a huge failure. He didn't know when he started, we didn't know what was going to happen. But he captured all the behind the scenes stuff leading up to the very surprising moment that the NBA gave the $25 million benefit to these players. And he captured it all, right? But in order to do that, he had to come out of his own pocket. It's an independent film, he paid for it. So he's now searching for distribution. And that boy, that start he got at Heartland Film Festival, hopefully will propel him.

To do it. You know, that reminds me of our producer that's sitting right here. Jason, does that sound like somebody you know? Yeah.

And actually, you were talking about Ted Green. We interviewed him years ago for his Ava documentary. And then ran into him just a few months ago in Broad Ripple at Broad Ripple Tavern. So we had a few drinks then, too. So, yeah, great guy.

Well, I was thinking about what you did for the Warriors when the Walk Across America. Didn't you kind of do that same thing?

Yeah. Yeah.

Four months out. Atlantic City, New Jersey to San Francisco, California. 3000, what was it? 3000, I don't know, thousands of miles. Yeah, that was amazing lifetime opportunity.

You filmmakers are nuts, but yeah, we will need to get him in. So let's get back to the waiting game. And I saw it, it was fantastic. And Scott's kind of the main guy. He was all humble like he always is, and he didn't even tell us. And my wife and I showed up to the Heartland Film Festival. I'm like, oh my God, things about Scott. It's awesome. So in, you know, in your words, I, I mean, I know what I want to say, but I'm the one interviewing you. Obviously, you were proud of it. Obviously, the story was extremely well told. Why don't you tell our listeners, the people that are listening now, what the, what the waiting game is, what was the premise of the 90-minute documentary, and, and just maybe walk us through that in, in a couple of minutes. And the nuances, what you caught up, the difference between merger and expansion and what that really meant to everybody. It's such a powerful and unbelievable story. Let's go ahead and just hear it from your words from the start of the show.

It's pretty cool, especially if you're interested in local or sort of Midwestern stories. It's pretty cool. Michael came, he met me through Atlanta Sports. We were doing a fundraiser for dropping dimes and selling some t-shirts, Darnell Hillman t-shirts. He bought one and he and I met so that he could buy the shirts. And we started talking and he asked me about dropping dimes, why are the funds going there? I explained it to him. That led to him saying, Hey, I'd like to do maybe a short independent film on the story of the Dropping Dimes Foundation. We got this little local charity that is formed by two local Indianapolis guys, John and I, and we have a Hall of Fame cast on our advisory board that includes Artis Gilmore and Julius Irving and George McGinnis and Slick Leonard and Spencer Haywood and Bob Costas and Peter Vessey. So he's going, this is crazy. And I said, well, it's a brotherhood. It's the brotherhood of the ABA that's coming together here with dropping dimes. And it's a brotherhood that's trying to make this happen where the NBA will support these guys. So he said, let's, can I do a short on it? And, and of course, being a lawyer, I immediately said, well, you know, I'm engaged in some pretty substantial discussions with the NBA and we think we're going to get him to do it. I don't want you to screw it up. So we made him sign an NDA. I feel terrible about it now, but we made him sign an NDA. We said, you know, we don't know what you're going to do, but one thing you can't do is release something that's going to hurt the cause. So we really treated him a little bit like a pariah at first, and he's kind of following us around, taking footage, and we're going, what's he even going to do with this? And then after a while, it became pretty dramatic stuff, right? Because the NBA told us they were going to do something about this. And then all of a sudden, you got an 18-month, two-year delay in them doing something. And it was us getting more and more urgent in our discussions with the NBA. Guys started dying off. They started dying quickly. We lost 10 guys during that intervening 18 to 24-month period. And Mike was capturing all this on film. Oh, and that's what led to the story being called the waiting game. Yeah. And then ultimately, you know, there's this feel good ending because the NBA finally came through and the NBA and the NBA Players Association provided these recognition benefits for the ABA guy. So he captured all that in a really cool feel good story, the downer. And I'll, I won't go into this in too much detail because I want people to watch it, but the downer is that because of some legal nuances that are total BS, In my opinion, they did not cover all the players. But you have to see the movie to understand why. But it was a very bittersweet victory.

Yeah, I do remember that. What was it like and what was your attitude on the first phone call or letter? What was the first salvo when you said, okay, here we go? Did you call them? Did you write a letter? Did you show up on their door? And what was your attitude on that very first engagement? going against CMB. I mean, you're seen as this, hey, we got this Hick Indiana attorney taking on Wall Street, 25 different attorneys in New York. And here comes Scott from Little Old Indiana, Mosien. Tell me about that first engagement. What was that like?

Well, at first it was all of us together. It was the entire advisory. It was John and I and Ted, the entire advisory board doing whatever we could, right? We're going, let's talk to them. Let's write, let's reach out on LinkedIn to players. Let's do whatever we can. to try to get the story to them. And we were running into the problem you would expect. You know, you got a multi-billion dollar multinational corporation, and you got players getting paid, you know, $100 million. And we're trying to say, hey, can we talk to you about something that happened 50 years ago that's important in your history? And nobody would listen. And we couldn't get anybody's attention. Netto and I actually, at one point, to show you some, some attitude, Nadelicki and I, Bob Nadelicki and I, actually, at one point, he did some underground research and figured out that Chris Paul, who then was the president of the Players Union, the NBA Players Association, that he and the Houston Rockets at the time were going to be in town playing the Pacers. And he found out that they were staying at the Conrad. So he and I went undercover, sort of. We went to the bar at the Conrad, and we sat there because we got some information from a friend about, about when their arrival was going to be. They were off by a couple hours. And so netto and I drank a couple of beers. waited in the bar until the team bus pulled up and Netto ran over and grabbed Mike D'Antoni who played in the ABA. And so we grabbed him and Chris Paul and we sort of did this gorilla, guys, you've got to listen to us, but that didn't even work. So, ultimately we had a player whose death, unfortunately, became national news because of the circumstances. A guy named George Carter who died without family. Dropping Dimes had to step in and sign a contract to take control of his remains so that we could arrange for him to be buried at his alma mater in New York at St. Bonaventure versus having a pauper's grave in Las Vegas. It became a national news story thanks to Dana Huntsinger Benbow here in Indianapolis at the Star, and that caused Bob Costas on our board to get pissed off enough that he said, Hey, this is the time I'm pulling the chip. I'm gonna call Adam. And he did call Adam. And then he called me back and he's a very humble guy, but he called me back and said, Hey, you're gonna hear from the president of the league soon. And within 24 hours, the president of the NBA reached out to me. And that's when we started our conversations and I had that oh shit moment that you just mentioned. Right.

So do you remember that first conversation and how you approached it? Did you hit him with questions like an attorney would? Or did you try to tug on the heartstrings? What was that like? I mean, Adam Silver freaking calling you on the phone, that's kind of crazy.

It wasn't Adam. He's the commissioner, of course, but this was the president of the league who was a guy named Bob Crickie. Oh, yeah. And he's the one who called me. And we had a fantastic conversation, you know, because I decided instead of approaching it like I'm a lawyer, the best way to approach this would be to somewhat, you know, do this as an animal, right? If the bigger dog's coming up on me and I want to have play, I don't want to get killed, so I'm going to probably kind of expose myself first, maybe roll over on my back. And so we had a really nice conversation about what the ABA meant to the NBA. And I told him that I had done a tremendous amount of research into the merger and that I now understood that despite what a lot of the players were saying publicly, the NBA did not, in my opinion, have a legal obligation to support them, but that this was more of a moral obligation. And that's the way I wanted to approach it. And we had a great conversation to start with.

And so he was an ABA fan?

Yeah, sure was.

I was sitting in the sauna today and mentioning that I was going to be interviewing you. Do you know that there was an ABA team that actually got paid. And I'm wondering if you know who it was, because we looked it up on Google this morning. But an ABA team, one of the only ones that got paid after the merger, quote unquote, merger. You know who it was?

There are two of them. So one was the Kentucky Colonels, and John Y. Brown and the Kentucky Colonels took $3 million in cash. which he then used to turn around and purchase the Buffalo Braves, who were playing in the NBA. And in a weird twist, I don't want to take up too much time with this. I'm going to geek out at pro basketball, pro basketball crap. But he then you, he then got an opportunity to buy the Celtics. And so John Y. Brown, former owner of the Kentucky Colonels, 1975 ABA Champs, he bought the Braves and the NBA with the money the NBA paid him. out to make the merger happen. And then he had a chance to buy the Celtics. He bought them and it lasted just long enough for Red Rback to say, I'm not gonna, my boss is not gonna be the guy that started Kentucky Fried Chicken and a guy from Kentucky. So that didn't work. So they got paid 3 million, but the guys who really hit the jackpot were the owners of the Spirits of St. Louis. Yes. And they're the ones who cut the deal of the century. and made upwards of $600 million over time by taking a portion of the TV and streaming revenues, which back in 1976, it seemed like, so what? Yeah, you want that forever, take it. But that turned into a $600 million deal plus.

But that has ceased, correct?

They settled, my understanding, it's all confidential, but my understanding is they kept a tiny little piece of the funnel going, but that the vast majority of the case settled for a set amount a couple of years ago.

So who had the coolest uniforms in the ABA, in your opinion?

Man, there were some cool unis in that league, but you'd have to go with maybe the Memphis Sounds.

Okay.

Who had a big S that was in the shape of a musical note?

Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, that would make sense. That's good. I like that. All right, well, let's talk about Next year, what's coming out that you're also involved with is an Amazon. It's going to be, are we all right to say this?

Yep, yep.

So it's going to be an Amazon movie featured film called Soul Power. Do you want to tell us a little bit about Soul Power and how that all got started?

Yeah, yeah. They decided Amazon Prime is coming out. It's actually they've decided to go with a four-part docu-series, so there'll be four episodes that will tell starting in episode one, the beginning of the league, the beginning of the ABA, and how it formed the backdrop to it, which is fascinating. And then that'll go on into four different episodes that kind of culminate in what we just talked about. They kind of culminate in this reckoning of the NBA saying, hey, yeah, the ABA meant a lot, and we're going to take care of these guys to the extent we can right now.

And it's got awesome highlights in it, too.

Awesome highlights. These guys, these, these guys. So the director is a guy named Kenan Kamwala, and he, he is, he is something special because, because he, he took a whole lot of complicated history and politics from the 60s and the 70s, and he, and he really does a great job of, of showing how, how he, how the basketball of the time in the American Basketball Association reflected all of these cultural changes that were going on in the 60s and 70s, you know, the sexual revolution, racial rights, women's rights, I mean, the whole nine yards is all sort of wrapped up in this story of this crazy, wild, independent league. He did an unbelievable job. The executive producers are Julius Irving and George Carl, a guy named Todd Lieberman, and a guy named see, I think I get them all. I'm gonna miss somebody I know. But anyway, this is a fabulous four-part series that your viewers aren't gonna wanna miss. I think it's going to come out on Amazon Prime in December of 2024, I'm sorry, of 2025 or January of 2026.

And so what's the thought on holding this off the market for a year? Is it the 50th anniversary of the NBA maybe? Is that what it is?

That's it. Because, you know, shooting, I'm an associate producer along with, you know, about 5,000 other people. Right. But it was originally that all the shooting stopped and the final editing was done two years ago. So I'm not privy to everything that's going on, but I think part of it was the Amazon NBA deal.

Yeah.

Just signed a few months ago, that multi-billion dollar deal.

Yeah.

And so I think people were waiting to see where that was going to shake out. And once it happened, then I think the NBA probably came in and said, if we're going to release this awesome, epic, ABA's docuseries, let's do it on the 50th anniversary of the merger.

Yeah, that's cool. So, you've mentioned some pretty, pretty elite company that you've been able to meet and weave through and talk to and engage with. And so, what I kind of want to do is just ask you before we do our Knowledge Through the Decades segment is the attitude lesson of some of these people. Dr. J, what would the attitude lesson be that you learned from him when you think of Dr. J?

I had an amazing opportunity to sit down with Julia Serrving in Atlanta where he lives and dine with him at a steakhouse and drink some cognac with him. And then he invited me to smoke a cigar with him afterwards in a private smoking area. Such a nice guy. He drove me home in his Rolls Royce, his vintage Rolls Royce, back to my hotel. Insisted on it because it wouldn't let me take an Uber. And what I took away from it is that he recognizes and remembers his roots. He remembers his roots at UMass. He remembers his roots in the ABA. And despite his unbelievable success on the court and after basketball, the ABA and the guys who never got the recognition they deserve mean a ton to him. So in the end, he was the highest profile of these ABA brothers that I got to know who used his strength, his fame, you know, to promote others. He was on our advisory board. He just, he's a protector just like Mel.

When you think about the Brotherhood, I just get it now, the American Brotherhood Association, the ABA. There you go. I love it. Who in that league, or whether you knew him or didn't know him, exemplified, you know, what's the story of one of the ABA players that, whether you knew him or did know him, that overcame incredible odds to end up, you know, making it or doing it. Who comes to mind with that type of thing for you? Man, I would, you know, I hate.

To sound like such a hometowner, but I'm gonna have to because just the way you set that question up, the first name that popped into my head was George McGinnis. Oh, wow. We've already talked about Mel and Mel came from Detroit, inner city Detroit, Pershing High School, ended up in New Mexico, University of New Mexico, which was a powerhouse at the time. And Julius went from UMass, obviously, into the NBA and the Nets and the NBA. But George was a local Indianapolis guy who played at Washington High School, was part of an undefeated, I believe undefeated, but certainly a state championship high school team, and played football in high school. And he lost his father when he was a high schooler and had to take care of his mom. And that factored into a decision. He went to play at IU. he just missed the Bobby Knight era, but he still holds records today at IU as a freshman. And then because of the need to protect his mother and the fact that his mother, his father was gone and there, there were some financial struggles, he signed with the ABA.

Wow.

In 1971. And when he did that, there was no opportunity to do that with the NBA because the ABA, in addition to the other things we've talked about. The ABA is the league that gave us the hardship rule. It's the league that brought young men in that we see today. That was the ABA that did that. So they gave George a chance to make some money for his mom and his family by leaving IU. So that's why he left IU after only one year and then ultimately becomes, you know, the co-MVP of the ABA along with Julius Erving, such a stud with the Indiana Pacers. you know, a champion, two-time ABA champion with the Pacers, you know, played in the 77 NBA finals with Julius Irving when he played for the Portland Trailblazers. Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a, you know, story of somebody with some attitude who kept hitting adversity.

Right.

Leading up to the death of his father and just saying, hey, I'm gonna use this to cop a tune.

That's going to be positive. Yeah, that's really, that, that's cool. I was fortunate enough to be introduced to Darnell Hellman from youm, truly one of my childhood heroes. And he also had a choice to sign NBA or ABA. And it just got me thinking, my God, to be a young man and go, okay, am I going to go with this new league called the ABA or the existing NBA and how Darnell ended up in the ABA and why people chose the ABA? Do you want to just talk about or share about the folks you know who had to make the decision, some went to the NBA, some went to the NBA. But that had to be so hard on a young man.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and Darnell Hillman was my favorite player when I was a kid. His rookie year was the year I turned 10, and he was my all-time favorite, you know, with the big afro and just the stylish dunks he had. And he's my closest friend in the city today, which is extremely fortunate for me. 'cause he's an incredible guy. But yeah, he had a chance to play for the Golden State Warriors. And that's another thing the ABA did, Glenn, that people don't recognize and the NBA should recognize more, particularly NBA players, is that when you have two leagues at that level and the ABA is proving itself as a very viable alternative and competitor to the NBA, that then raised the salaries. like, like exponentially because players like Darnell Hillman and Rick Barry could come to. And by the way, Rick Barry was Golden State Warriors versus, versus the Oakland Oaks of the ABA.

Wow.

And ultimately he signed with the Oakland Oaks of the ABA after his rookie season in the NBA, where he was the rookie of the year. And so the NBA had to take notice. Salaries are skyrocketing because of the players ability to negotiate, like you just mentioned. And, you know, Oscar Robertson ultimately, as Player Association president of the NBA in 1970 prevented a merger because at that time, the owners of the two leagues wanted the merger to stop the salaries from skyrocketing.

Right.

And oddly, here's the, here are the players suing an anti, an antitrust lawsuit saying, no, no, no, we like the two leagues because we keep getting more and more money. Right. That's the ABA that did that. I'd like some of these NBA players to to understand that and step up for these older ABA guys.

That is truly a fantastic story. And I want to respect your time, but we're going to do this little thing that we always do at the end of our podcast. And thanks, Scott, for sharing with us. And again, if you want to learn more about Scott and what he does, droppingdimes.org, you can go buy basketballs for Christmas. All that money goes to Atlanta Sports goes to dropping dimes. You can watch waiting game whenever we get this out. And hopefully next year, you're going to check out soul power. Scott is in all of these. One other person, Bob Costas. What's the attitude lesson from Bob Costas?

Humility. I mean, but, you know, Bob, I, I almost, you know, I mean, I'm sweating bullets talking to him for the first time, right? I mean, it's Bob Costas. And this is even, he's stepped down from some of these. national positions he's had recently. But when I first dealt with him 10 years ago, I'm thinking, holy crap. I mean, I'm getting ready to call Bob Costas. And he's so humble. He's the guy, he is one guy where if today I wanted to call him and tell him that we've got a player in desperate straits and I really need his guidance about what we should do, he would take my call, take, you know, in a heartbeat. And he would help out somebody from the ABA. He's just an amazing guy.

That'S awesome.

He never wants credit for it, Glenn. Never wants credit.

Yeah. Well, you never heard him talk about it, so that's cool. So gappers, that's what we call our listeners. The gappers. Gappers. Obviously, hopefully you were entertained with these stories from the great Scott tarter. And, and hopefully that if you have a dream inside of you, if you see a need, if you see people that need help, understand that Scott started with nothing. But it was the power of people, the power of attitude, the power of stick-to-it-iveness that allowed him to go from, I'm just a single guy trying to do this with some partners, to boom, giving $25 million to 140 ABA players. If he can do it, gappers, so can you. Let's just get to know Scott Scott. This is just a real quick, fun little thing we do. It's called Knowledge Through the Decades. And I'm going to ask you, I've asked you about the attitude lessons of all these famous people that you've known. But we like to get to know you as a person. And so we always do this thing called knowledge through the decades. But when you think about the attitude lesson and you have four children, right? Or five.

Four.

Four. When we. Let's start at birth. What's the attitude lesson of birth or new beginnings for the parent?

What's the attitude lesson? Yeah.

For the parent or whatever. Yeah.

Well, it was a lot different when I had my first one than it was when I had my fourth one. I'll tell you that much. But I would say you've got to be prepared if you're talking about the attitude change. You have to start. The attitude has to change from, you know, what are you able to do for other folks and for other people? What are you able to do in that regard to, hey, wait a minute, what are we able to, what am I able to do for this human being here who is going to grow up and be able to impact so many other people? What can I do for this child who's so much in your heart? and to make them have that kind of attitude. And then everything else takes a backseat, to be honest with you. That's good.

That's one is the tough one that gets easier. Now I want you to think about being 10, right? This is called knowledge. You're 10, where did you go to school? Who was your teacher? And what was your attitude lesson at 10? Like what happened at 10 that you can kind of remember that you go, oh, that changed me. I remember that.

Well, let's say 10, but that would have put me with that maybe fourth grade?

Yeah, third or fourth.

Okay, so I would have been at IPS School 93 over there on 35th Street, about 35th and Shadland. And my teacher was Mrs. Holt. She was, she was a, an African-American teacher in that time period, which was a bit unusual. And, but I remember looking up to her tremendously. I remember her being somebody that my, my mother always taught me that you'd have to have a significant level of ignorance to judge somebody based on the, the, the amount of melatonin in their skin. Wow. And she was somebody that, one of the first people I met who I went, you know, that's so true. Like, what the difference does it make? And same time, you gotta throw in Darnell, man, because I was playing basketball all the time. I was starting to love it. I was playing for the.

For.

For, you know, every team I could get on. And Darnell Hillman was the man. He was unbelievable.

I love it. Same. Same with me. Let's go to 20 years old. Where were you at 20? And what was the attitude lesson you garnered from being 20.

20. I was at DePaul University. That would have been my senior year. Start of my senior year.

Big bell game, big win this weekend, by the way.

Yep, yep. Got to do it. I had to go to DePaul because my older brother went to Wabash. So it was a fait accompli, right? I had no choice. But yeah, that was senior year and I had made a transition from John Marshall High School on the east side in IPS to DePaul University, private college, you know, very little diversity at that time. And yeah, I was learning how those two worlds can collide. and how to adjust your attitude going from a public school in Indianapolis to a very private, high-end private university in Green Castle, Indiana. Wow. Yeah. That's.

Did you get a scholarship to depart? Did you get to pay for it?

Everything I got, you know, scholarships, financial aid, grants, everything I could get.

You put your hand. All right. Well, though, let's go to 30 years old. Where were you at 30? And what was going on in your life?

And what was your attitude lesson when you hit 30? 30 was my first born son. I only had one at that point. And he was. And he became my world. That was Matt, who's now 34, lives in San Diego, started his own business. I couldn't be any more proud of him. But that was 30 years old was when I was getting serious about, hey, this world ain't about me, and it ain't about me and my wife, even. It's about. It's about this kid.

Yeah, that's awesome. And then, boy, the 30s fly, and then, boom, the next thing you know, you're celebrating 40 years old. What were. What was going on with you at 40? What was the attitude lesson there?

Man, 40 was right about the time. So you really want it? It's just the truth, right? Your listeners want the truth.

Yeah, well, trust me, we've had very famous people, very successful people go through and they're like, man, I haven't done this. This is like a freaking great exercise.

So, yeah. Well, so I'm giving you the truth. So the first thing that popped in my head was, wow, that was just before. So I had three kids at that point. That was just before a divorce. Yeah. And I was thinking to myself, wow, at 40, I'm in the throes of my I've got kids who are becoming teenagers. And yeah, I would say 40s, the attitude is survival, right? Because now you've got a long term marriage, you know, you know, those are supposed to stay together. Yeah. That's why you go into them. But that becomes a struggle, as we know, you get your kids who are now becoming they're not little cute little kids agree with everything now. Now they're teenagers with real world problems. So I'd say survival is the lesson of the 40s.

I love it. And understand the people listening to this, there's plenty of people that are probably on the precipice of a divorce or maybe finishing one and to, to hear your story, to see your impact, to see 20 years later, you know, it's going to be okay. And, and it is tough. And a lot of our people, invariably, about half of our guests, the big D comes up, usually 30, 40 or 50, whatever it is. So, you know, 40, 40 years old, life put a whooping on you is what Les Brown used to say. Right. So then you go to 50.

Right.

And that's really probably when this stuff started happening for you, I'm guessing. So what's your attitude? from 50?

It was, but you know, but the 50s is sort of a similar lesson for, at least if you want to know from my perspective, that was a failure of a business. So I was a partner in a law firm. It was a smaller firm, a mid-sized firm, 25 to 30 lawyers. And that big, that that company, and I was a partner in the firm, and I was one of our managing partners, and that firm, for economic reasons, at that time, big firms were swallowing up the little firms, and little firms were having trouble keeping up. and we fell victim to that. So we were getting further and further down and that company ultimately dissolved. We got essentially acquired by a bigger firm, the one I'm at now. And that was rough being a managing partner of a firm that is falling apart and you got all these people, your mailroom folks, your staff. So maybe the lesson for me in the 50s was you better bring some more attitude because things are going to get even more serious. Cause now you're not just talking about your kids and your survival, you're talking about other people, employees, their families, their kids, and that's on your shoulders in the 50s.

And that probably gave you some humility, I would guess, after that happens, right?

Tremendous amount of humility.

And so I think you just turned 60.

Yep.

So you did great on the knowledge through the decades. What's the attitude lesson in the present for you? What's Scott Tarter looking over the next decade? What's the attitude that you're taking in? you want to know?

Okay, so here's what I, what came into my mind. A good friend of mine recently told me when I did turn 60, it was a year after him. And I said to him, because I was, I was having kind of a bad day health-wise I was thinking, this sucks. I'm, I've got a young attitude, and I was telling him, my back hurts, my knees are from basketball and blah, blah, blah. And he said, you know what, Scott? He goes, instead of painting a picture like you're like this and now you're going like this, because that's what you're doing. He said, imagine this is a roller coaster. He said, you know what you're doing now? You got nothing to lose, man. He's like, you're playing with house money. You've had such good fortune, you've had so much good luck, you've had so much good fortune in business with your family, with your kids. Frickin enjoy the ride, man. And so that's the attitude of the.

60S is let's enjoy the ride. I love it. I love it. Well, Scott, you've been a fantastic guest. Thanks for bringing it and bringing the Brotherhood and the ABA and the fantastic stories. you just, you crushed it. And I think people are going to just love hearing this. I think it's gonna hopefully promote what you're doing. It's gonna promote all the films that you're involved with. And most of all, I just think it's gonna get people thinking about a Time 50 years ago that meant a lot. And hopefully my, my hope is for the listeners is that they investigate. Maybe it's not the ABA, but what was going on 50 years ago and try to learn the lesson, because I'm sure the ABA is not the only one. We always like to have you finish with just a message of hope, Scott. There's people out there maybe walking on the beach right now, sitting in their car crying, that just lost their business, that just got a divorce. What's your message of hope to the people that are listening to us right now?

Right now, I would say, you know, for any of you who are experiencing that right now, just know number one is a little bit of a cliche, but it's true that tomorrow when you wake up, it will be better. okay, that's number one. But number two, focus more on what you have, focus more on what you've done, focus more on the impacts you've had in the past, and especially focus on the impacts and the gratitude you can have in the future that are within your own control.

I love it. He started with gratitude. He ended with gratitude. We are grateful that you showed up on the Get Attitude podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, that was Scott TartEr. He is one of the founders of the Dropping Dimes Foundation. Please support him. Please check out his film, Scott. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, Glenn. Thanks for having me on.

All right, brother.