S3 #10 | Entrepreneurship Success From The Lens Of Twins With Deborah Byrd And Denise Donoghue

In a world full of turmoil, despair and darkness, you need to carry the light. Season three of the Get Attitude podcast is where we will ignite your mind, your heart and your attitude. And welcome to the Get Attitude Podcast. Gappers. You guys are going to be so happy to hear from these two unbelievable light carriers. We have a pair of sisters, but what's really cool, a pair of twin sisters. And what most of you don't know is I have twins that are my grandbabies. So I'm really looking forward to dive into the dynamic of being a twin. We have the one and only Deborah Bird, who is part of the Mortgage Coach team and their unbelievable podcast and their weekly broadcast. She is the president of Plug and Play, a successful female entrepreneur who is going to light you up. And we also have Denise Donahue. I hope I pronounced that right. You can correct me after this. Denise. Denise is called the mortgage nerd. If you have not followed the mortgage nerd, you need to imagine being this. Because I know we got a ton of real estate agents and loan originators and branch managers. Imagine being in the top like 1% of your profession. The that is who Denise is. The mortgage nerd. In the top 1% over 700 closings last year. And what is really, really cool is they have a podcast that's very, very similar to ours. So, like, if you've heard enough of me and you've figured out how to bridge the gap from who you are to who you want to become and from where you are to where you want to go, you guys need to check out their podcast, the Nerd and the Bird podcast. And they are telling the untold stories of of successful people in real estate, mortgage or any facet of entrepreneurship. So with that said, ladies and gentlemen, I want to welcome you to the Get Attitude podcast. I'm your host, Glenn Bill, international best selling author, keynote speaker on Attitude. And we are going to say what's up to the Nerd and the Bird. What is up? And I'm going to talk to Denise first. Hi, Denise. Welcome to the Get Attitude podcast.

Thank you. I am so happy to be here. I'm honored to be here and I am excited to carry the light. So thank you for having myself and my sister.

I love it. Deborah, good to see you. Hello. How are you, dear?

What's up?

I feel like it's only fitting that I'm second. In fact, I even gave Denise a hard time on the title the Nerd and the Bird. I'm like, why? Why am I always second? But to be Fair. She was the first one out the shoot. So there you go. She goes first.

Yeah.

Who's.

Whose idea was it for the nerd and the bird? Yes.

Well, so funny story is when we were both originating, I had this massive insecurity that, you know, I was a former middle school science teacher and girls athletic coach, and my sister lured me into the mortgage business. And to be, you know, completely transparent, I needed to earn more income. And I realized as a teacher, the $11 pay raises wasn't quite keeping up with inflation. And so anyways, when I got into the industry, I thought, who's going to want to do a loan with me when my identical twin is the mortgage nerd? We look alike, we sound alike, we have the same products. And so the joke was every time I would go somewhere, every networking event, someone would be like, are you the mortgage nerd? And I was like, nope, I'm the bird. So that was kind of the joke is everywhere I would go, I'd be like, just go ahead and change the digits and put mine in, and you can just send min application link. And so we just always kind of went with the nerd and the bird. So my brother then said that he was the turd. So there you go.

I love it. Okay, so now just like a total ADD entrepreneur, the question I asked was, whose idea was it.

Yeah.

To do the podcast?

It was Deborah's. Deborah. It was your.

It was Deborah's idea to do the podcast. Well, we could do a whole show on why you want a podcast and what that means, but we're here to talk about this thing called attitude. And to have two successful females is just huge, because a lot of our audience is females. And, Denise, if I can talk with you, what unheralded levels of success you've had. What I always like to ask is this. Number one, how do you define attitude? And number two, who was your first attitude coach?

I would define attitude as your. When you wake up in the morning, the tone of your day. So, you know, you're responsible for the tone of your day. And I think it's a choice. You know, you could wake up and on your way to the bathroom, you could stump your toe, and that. That might be for the rest of your day. You might just be a little salty for the whole day, or you could bump your toe, go to the bathroom, and, you know, carry on with your day, do your affirmations, or listen to a positive podcast. But I think it's a daily choice that you make minute by minute throughout your day. And it's the tone. I would say my first coach.

Attitude coach. I'm sorry, your first attitude coach? Not your first coach. The one when you think about who really taught you that definition, who was that person? And tell us a little bit about them.

So I would say when I graduated college, my first job was a one call, close phone sales. And you got a lot of rejection. And the company made you do 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in the afternoon of what they called personal development, which really meant you listened to a CD of either Tony Robbins or Zig Ziglar.

Cool.

Because you're in a work environment where you're constantly getting hung up on. And so if I was to say my first, I do think the Tony Robbins and Zig Ziglar taught me, you know, the meaning of gratitude, the meaning of wait, even if you were. If you had no sales that day and you might be really upset, how to trigger your mind to positive thoughts. So I would consider that an attitude coach. Even though it was through a CD at the time, I would chalk it up to that.

Hey, we've all been there. Deborah, how about you? Same question. What's your definition of attitude? And who would you consider your first attitude coach?

So I would say attitude is just. It could be a belief, a feeling, a mind state mindset that to me really reflects kind of what's going on in the inner game and how you perceive certain outcomes. It's your choice of response to certain events. And it can be an attitude towards yourself, an attitude towards others, an attitude towards an event. It's, you know, so that's how I would define attitude. And then, you know, it's a hard one with the attitude coach, because I'll tell you, there's not a lot of them. And a lot of times, just even in business, you have business coaches that constantly focus on skills and they leave out attitudes. So if I had to say the first unofficial. I don't know if I've ever had just a pure attitude coach, but my dad did a great job when I was younger. Every shot that I would miss and every goal that I wouldn't make, and I was very critical of myself, I would say I kind of would beat myself up mentally in it. You could see, because I had an identical twin who was a little less critical of themselves, you could see how two people in the same household could have different perspectives or results based off what they believe to be true about themselves. And so my dad was always on to me about, you know, not sweating the small stuff. And what's the mental talk? Like, what are you telling yourself? Because I used to hide on the bench like, oh, I hope the coach doesn't call on me. Hope, oh shit, coach called on me. So I hope I do okay, you know? So I would say unofficial coach would. Would have been my dad, who was on to me from my mental game from very young age.

Cool. I. Yeah, I don't know that there's any official attitude coaches. I was a coach and I guess people still consider me a coach. But I'll let whoever wants to answer this one first answer it. When it comes to your attitude in your life, when did you stand back and go, damn, I did that, And I did that because of my attitude. Was there a time in your life where maybe you're under great stress or under great decision making and you had to make a big decision and you did it, you went through with it and you said, I'm kind of proud of myself. I can't believe I did that. I'd love to hear those stories, one from each of you. Whoever wants to go first.

So I'll jump in and go first. I would say. When I was a senior in high school, my whole world was basketball. I'm 54 and I thought I was going to play in the wnba and unfortunately our older sister got all the height and we were left as 5 4. But my world for the last four years was basketball. And I was at that time getting offers in the mail for scholarships and. And we grew up poor. So in my mind I thought if I was going to go to college, it meant I was going to have to get a scholarship, which our older sister got a scholarship in sports. And so. But I started realizing in that moment of life that I'm 5 4, probably not going to wind up in the WNBA. And I was getting some D3 offers and such, but I had just decided, at the risk of disappointing my dad, I decided, you know what? I'm not going to play. I am going to go to a community college for two years because I couldn't afford a regular school. And then I was going to transfer to the best school university in Texas, which we all know is Texas A and M. And I was going to learn about.

Are you an Aggie?

Well, my best. One of my best friends was the old head coach of the football team there, Kevin Sumlin. I don't know if you ever heard of Kevin Sumlin or not, but I have. I have run out of the Texas A and M locker room as they played Alabama on Aggie Field at Kyle Field. So, yeah, I've. I've been in the locker room and experienced Kyle Field several times. Thank you, Kevin Someone, wherever you are. He's actually best friends with my brother. And man, there's no. Nothing better than Aggie football. But anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry. So I digress.

Hey, there's. There's nothing better. And what's even better is that we beat Arkansas by a little bink. I've never seen that ever happen in, like, football history. Right on the top. It was like one of the greatest, greatest moments of this year. But at any rate, I transferred into A and M, and it was the first time a Donahue had gone to a big, you know, a big name school. And I paid for it myself. I didn't take out any student loans. I just worked really hard, worked multiple jobs and. And so when you graduate from A and M, or when you get a certain number of hours, you get the A and M ring. And I just remember thinking to myself, man, if I could get through school debt free, get to dunk my ring, I will just be so proud of myself. And I did. So it was scary because I went against the grain. My dad always wanted us to play sports, and he was like, if that's your decision, you know, you're gonna have to find a way to pay for it. And I think ultimately it made me value, you know, a dollar and how to get it done. But that was probably my first. Oh, man, I'm all, this is an adult decision. I hope I don't let myself down.

And so the lesson in that is what? So you literally graduated debt free from Texas A and M. So, like, how did you do that? Not like, I worked three jobs and I cold called. I mean, that's good. But what was it inside of you? What was it between your ears? What was it inside your, you know, the heart and the guts and the mind? What kept you going? What did you tell yourself that wouldn't allow yourself to quit?

You know, honestly, I am blessed in that my mind is wired to always work smarter and not harder. And so I honestly didn't have to grind it out too much because I was strategic. I started an ebay business. Those of you listening that don't know what ebay is, it used to be a really popular way to make money. Now there's a million other different ways, but I started an ebay business selling Dallas Mavericks jerseys and Dallas Stars jerseys, because in Dallas you could get them very cheap, but you couldn't in Other parts so I didn't have to have an inventory. And so I started an ebay business. It was very, it was making me quite a bit of money. And then my roommates, they, they all played on the soccer team and we got together because by the time I transferred in, I said, hey, why don't we buy a house instead of live in a dorm? Let's buy a house, all property, manage it, we'll split the mortgage four different ways, all pay all the bills, so I want a discount. And two of my roommates parents went in together, bought it and I negotiated, you know, paying the water, paying the yada, yada, yada. And so my rent was, you know, rent's one of the most expensive parts. My rent was really cheap because I the responsible one. And we divided up that mortgage and so I didn't want to work 24 hours a day. And so I had the ebay thing. I worked at a bank as a teller and every day I was just like, if I, I don't want to graduate with a bunch of student loan debt and you don't have to, but that also doesn't mean that you have to work your tail off. If you just look for ways to think smarter. And especially in today's day and age with the Internet and all, you know, there's so many creative ways, non traditional ways. Right. Like I think traditionally it's like you go to, you go to college, you get a degree, you get a job and then you work from 8 to 5 for the rest of your life until you retire. And that's the traditional way. And but there's a lot of untraditional ways that can be done. That doesn't mean you have to grind for the rest of your life.

So.

That'S your answer. That's good, I love that. Deborah, let's go to you. Tell me the time of your life where you surprised yourself with, with your attitude or making a major decision.

So I'm going to go with with a recent one. And that is when I launched my social media marketing company, plug and play SM because I, the time I had been working several jobs. I was the CEO of a family law firm. I was still somewhat managing a mortgage branch with seven loan officers where I wasn't originating but I helped with the management and would get certain overrides and I always had these safety nets and I knew like I was proud of myself when I left teaching and I could join my sister's team. But I still had the safety net of Denise, you know, she was there to help me guide the way. She already paved the way. But the day that I decided to burn the boats and go all in, which really meant I had to really believe in myself. And for some reason, that had been a struggle for a very long 35 years of my life. And it was just a time where I was like, you know what? I'm tired of making everybody else a lot of money and I am worthy enough to now have all the focus on me and what gift and what light I can share with the world. So why am I playing small? And I was like, you know what? I'm just, I'm either going to end up dead if I keep at this rate with 4 kids and multiple things that I had my hands in, because I just wasn't trusting of myself that I could do it. So kind of unofficially, when I did this in 2018, it allowed me to get super focused. And my dad raised us from six months old and on, he really raised us like boys. And it was always, you know, sink or swim. There was never an option to sink, but it was letting go of the little safety nets where I was driving myself crazy. I mean, I was, I just was working really hard and not smart and having just the new belief system or attitude like, I can do this. I have everyone else in my world telling me I'm worthy enough, I can. But until I adopted it, and it may have taken a few painful lessons that kept reoccurring because I am also hard headed to eventually say, you know what, screw this, I'm just going to do it and we'll just see what happens. And usually I always succeed. And so it just meant taking action and cutting a cord.

I love that. In our book, the ABCs of Attitude, we talk about this thing called a critical question. And in times of great decision making and in times of great stress in your life, which I'm guessing both of you have had in your life, Some of us walk around with a question in our head that we constantly ask ourselves. I always tell people that mine was, what does can't mean? I would always, no matter what it was, what does can't mean? What does can't mean? And sometimes when you ask the wrong question, you get the wrong answer. When you think about those times of great difficulty, stress, or where it's time for you to push or go, do you guys have a question that you feel runs in your mind or used to run in your mind that you, that you can come up with or not? I'm just curious. Usually 70% of my rooms come up with it, and 30% go, I don't know what the hell you're talking about, but do you live by a question that you constantly ask yourself in your mind?

So I would say one for me is I would often ask why not me? Like, why couldn't this be me? Or why I would have certain dreams or certain visions and I could always see and help promote other people. Like you said earlier before we started, someone's proud of her sister. So it was always easy for me to lift others. And so constantly I would have to ask myself, why don't I do that for me? Or why not me? Why can't I? And it was not an easy one to answer because I was playing small in reality.

Right. Well. And that's what happens. Right. The question that drives our life oftentimes disempowers us, lowers the bar, and it puts us in this feeling of certainty. Denise, do you have a question that you often ask yourself or that you ask yourself to this day that roams in your mind all the time?

I'm one of those that don't. No, I. It's funny because my husband and I are so very different. He's from the east coast, but he always tells me that I. In a nice way, like, I live in this Lala land of everything's gonna be okay. Because I don't ever think negatively. It's almost to a fault, to be honest. I don't ever think neg. It's always just like, what's next? What's next? So someone hit my car. It's. I mean, it's not a big deal, or there's not. So I wish I was more intentional every morning with. With a question in my mind, but I don't. But my mind is always, I guess, unconsciously focused on everything's going to be fine or what's next, or I don't know if that's a good or bad trait. It's bad when you have a kid because now that we have a son together, he's five, I have learned that it can be a bad trait because it's like your kid touches something that's super germy. And my mind doesn't go to, oh, my gosh, there's a lot of germs on there. He just put his hands in his mouth. Because my mind's not wired that way. I don't know how and why that happened, but so it can actually be to a fault. And so. But no, I don't have a question. That runs through my mind every day.

Well, yeah, and like, when your kid touches something that's real Germany puts in his mouth, your mind goes to, well, you know what? He's probably building up his defense system. And so that's all good. So I always play this thing called the attitude game. We come up with the worst scenarios that could happen, and you have to find the positive in it. And that's kind of how I'm wired too, which is interesting. Now I want to just pick up on something. It sounds like you guys were raised by a single father, is that right? Did you not have a mom in your life or. Give me that story.

Yeah, go ahead, Denise.

We have two different perspectives on this, but yes, to answer your question, we were raised by a single dad. And so oftentimes people think that our mom may have passed away and that's not the case. Our parents got divorced at a very young age. And my mom, highly successful female in New York City, but she was diagnosed with a mental illness. And so the attorneys deemed that she wasn't mentally fit to raise kids. She would argue something different. But at that time, years ago, it was very uncommon for a female to not get custody of their children. But my dad had a lot of money and the best attorneys that you could afford, and he won that battle. And so we were raised. Me specifically, I didn't have any sort of relationship with my mom growing up. Deborah did, which is a fun dynamic. So for me, it was predominantly my dad.

Interesting. And Deborah, what's your dynamic on that and how did that affect your attitude?

So from about six months old and on which Denise and I were delivery table surprise twins. So the whole time they thought it was one baby. My mom was the breadwinner, head of marketing and sales at Xerox, which was also rare back then. Very free spirited, you know. And so at six months old is when she was diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar and she was in and out of mental institutions. She, you know, when she would get released. My dad was. Was also kind of a womanizer and had lots of women. Obviously he was inheriting a bunch of money that was coming to him. And so from about six months old into first or second grade, that's how long the custody battle was. And anyone who's had a custody battle can. It's very costly. And for a man to get full custody of three girls, because we do have an older sister who's four years older, it was very rare. Obviously it was very difficult on our mom as well. Yet I, out of all of the sisters. I don't know what it was. My mom used to joke that since I was the second one out, that Denise calls it a mistake. I call it a miracle. So that's the power of word choice.

There you go.

She had always said, in fact, why she named me Deborah. Was she. And it spelled like, Deborah, a biblical leader, female leader in the Bible. But she said, you know, you came here, and for whatever reason, I had chose to keep a relationship with my mom.

And it was.

It was like I would find rides to a mental institution, and there's a red line, and she's in a straight jacket. And that's really where I fell in love with just human beings. Because I would go to these psych wards and halfway houses and government housing, and I'm learning sign language because there's people there who teach sign language. And. And I just fell in love with the human souls. Like, I didn't care if you were black, white, green, gray, short, tall. I just. I saw what they wanted so badly. And we all want the same thing. We sometimes go about it in different ways. But I found it fascinating that here you have these humans that probably the worst thing you could do is put them in a padded cell away from their family or newborn twins, and shove a bunch of medicine down their throat. And while we. We preach, you know, just be you. Be authentic. You should be accepted for who you are. Well, not if you're crazy, because when you're crazy, they want you to take medicine. And. And, you know, when she lost the battle with custody with us, and my sisters didn't want to go see her, and, you know, that was a lot of my dad's doing, too. I would say a little bit of manipulation. And for whatever reason, I just was like, you know what? I just feel convicted that this is my mom and I should be. I should go see her. And there were times she would do some bizarre things that were very embarrassing. And then we had sports come into play where I knew I was supposed to go see her that weekend, but we had, like, a Labor Day tournament because we played club ball. And then I would feel this guilt of, well, shoot, I know the last time she wanted to take her life, and the nurses told me she would always wait for my coloring sheets until I arrived. So I felt such pain for her while also seeing how no matter what she did and even when she would try her best, she would almost push them away, my sisters more. So it was just. It was about. And then I would come back home to my dad's. House. And it was almost like, how dare you betray us? You would go see your mom. And so there was a little bit of an attitude there and, you know, a little bit of bruising and, you know, ganged up on a little bit until the next episode. And so I don't know what made me resilient to get through it, other than I felt this higher conviction of, she's my mom. Like, no matter how crazy she is, she's like, she's, I want a mom. And all these step moms that would come in every other week, you know, that would come and go. I was like, they just aren't. That's not our mom. So I've always had a relationship with her. It's not always been easy, but I will say it's what launched my passion, kind of the whole Patch Adams. For those of you who have ever watched Patch Adams with Robin Williams, I fell in love with human souls in that moment.

I can't help but think the question that goes through your mind, why not me? Didn't maybe originate from all that pain and trauma, and it creates who you are. And certainly big producers like your mother, top executives here, I think we all know this. Denise, I'm not saying that you are either, but, yeah, big producers are nuts. They're schizophrenic, they're manic. And it's a common trait in highly successful people. So I don't know how deep. And I think mental illness is something that we want shed the light on in our podcast. And there's plenty of mental illness in my family. We've not suffered with it. We've embraced it, and we've tried to turn it into a positive. Right. So what's the lesson of mental illness? That you've learned, either of you or both of you. And if somebody's struggling, who's listening to this now that may have mental illness, you know, what message would you like to send to them, or what would you like to say to them? Either about your experience. How can you spread the light to the person that's sitting there going, damn, that sounds like my mom or my dad. And I feel you sisters, give us some hope. Give us some light on either how you got through it, or what do you tell yourself, or what's your interpretation? Or. Or how can you help somebody that's listening on the other end of the microphone right now? About that.

Well, I would say just from. And I think you're right. When I would go visit my mom, I think deep down me never Feeling good enough was because I sacrificed so much to go be with her. And I. I always thought I could fix her. I always thought I could make her happy, I could make her feel loved. And every time I would see her, it was like tears because my sisters aren't there. So I just never felt like it was enough. And I had to learn I'm not the savior, and it is not my responsibility, nor could I make anybody happy. My job is to just know that she's loved and try to seek understanding over taking things so personal. Because it's almost like when you're arguing with a toddler, there's no reasoning with someone. And when I was younger, and even I would say to my younger 20s, I used to take it personally with some of the things that she would say or that she would do. But, you know, she's not firing on all cylinders all the time. And then you take into consideration when they start changing up some of the medication or if you move, you have to see a new psychiatrist. I mean, it can be hard to feel right, because some of the medicine has side effects. It makes you sleepy, makes you nauseous. And so for those who suffer with it, I have such empathy for. Because it's a lot of times invisible illness. And I often tell my kids, not talking about privilege in any other way other than it's such a privilege to wake up and not have this invisible illness or diagnosis that nobody can see. Like when you're pregnant, people can see, and so you have everyone holding the door open for you. But when you. When you have this mental condition that can sometimes make you act like a drug addict when you're not it, the world can be mean. So I would just say don't take it personally. Try to come from a place of understanding while not taking ownership, where it's not your job to fix them or heal them. And they may not think that they're broken.

Right.

And if you are someone that feels like you're broken, then I would say remember the acronym hope so hang on or hold on. Pain ends. And it will, it does end. And you'll get through it like anything. Sometimes the new medicine, you may have to just weed it out. And so the positive is at least you know which medication doesn't work. You may have to go through a lot of those to find get to the one that does. But that's the only way you're going to get to that end. Point is you may have to go through some of the wrong turns.

Awesome. Such a cool answer, Denise. What do you got to give us about your experience that might help those who are listening?

So before I answer that, like, just listening to Deborah, I just get this vision of a lighthouse. You know, this whole thing about shining your light. Like, couldn't you just listen to her all day? If it's like, she just. She understands and empathizes so well, I wish I had that ability, and I don't. But when I think of a lighthouse, like, you're in a ship and it's dark, and you don't know where to go, and then all of a sudden, you see this lighthouse, and it's like, okay, that's the Deborah in our family. Just so you guys know. I'm sure the audience listening to her is like, wow, she just makes me feel better. I would speak from the sense of being the kid learning what I've learned, actually, in sales. So if you're someone that's listening and you're in sales, I read a statistic that said you are 30% more likely to be depressed when you're in sales. And I think it's like in the high teens to be an addict of drugs or alcohol or whatever.

Wow.

So if you're listening to this. Yeah. Isn't that. It's fascinating.

And if you're an addict and in the mortgage standpoint, if you're an addict and in sales, then you're really screwed.

Yeah.

Which most of us are. But anyway, go ahead.

Yeah, exactly. And so knowing that and sharing that statistic, I would just hope that the people listening that, you know, especially being a working mom, it's like, holy smokes. We are juggling a lot now. Most of us are working full time. We've got kids, we've got soccer practices, and we're trying to keep our man happy and our kids happy, and. And so just know you're doing a lot, give yourself allowances, give yourself breaks. One of the things I love to do is schedule. I call it a me cation. Yeah. Once a quarter. I used to feel guilty about it because I'm like, I can't. I work so much. I can't possibly leave my children or my man. But once a quarter, I will schedule a me cation, which usually just means somewhere local, because I don't really want to deal with traveling and all that. And I'll just book a hotel room for a couple nights, and, you know, it's the most boring thing, but I'll eat potato chips in bed and I'll go to the spa and like it. It brings me Joy. And so what I've learned in this just go, go, go, go, go world is like, ask yourself the question, what brings you joy? Like the giddiness of joy. Like riding a bike brings me joy. It's fun for me. Ask yourself that question and schedule a mucation. If it's four times a year. If it's once a year, I don't care what it is. And I actually think it's really healthy for your husband to do the same. Sleep in, you know, leave the toothpaste out with no judgment. But I think that just puts you in such a positive space. It slows your world down. It lets you just focus on yourself. It's really healthy. And just know that there are a lot of people that might not be walking around with a sign above their head that says, I'm feeling in the dumps today. Because we're programmed to say, hey, how are you doing? Hey, I'm doing great.

Right? Right?

Are you doing great? So that's what I would say. It's just, just know that there's probably a lot more people in your same boat, but you're not going to see it on social media and you're not going to see it with people walking around with signs in your head and, and take the time to really dig in on that and think about some mutations in your life.

I love that. That's so cool. Great antidotes from both of you. Let me ask you, I'm going to go off the beaten path a little bit. Did you have grandparents in your life?

No, not really. Our parents were older when they had us and not great relationship. You know, my mom was, it was, her dad was a preacher, so she had married in, she was only 20. And my dad had a 7 year old son at the time. He's your typical black jacket, Boston, Massachusetts kind of guy. It's not a whole lot of approval as he's smoking a Camel cigarette. And she, they knew some of the physical and, you know, mental abuse that was going on in the household. But when you get married as a preacher's daughter, divorce is not an option. So there was several tough moments that she could have left. And they were married 19 years. It was a long time before they ended up getting divorced and before her illness was even, you know, exposed or ignited, so to speak. But they, they lived in Florida. And then my dad's parents had died when we were real young, so we never really knew our coaches. Believe it or not, our sport coaches were like our adopted parents. Sometimes when you're Waiting for the ride, and you're sitting on the curb and, you know it's after a game, you just have life talk. That's why I wanted to be a teacher and a coach was really because of my mentor who taught me science and coached. And I thought if it weren't for him, I don't know if I would have become who I did, you know, when I did. So our coaches were always our. Our fan and our friends and their parents, they could kind of see what was going on because our dad went from inheriting a lot of money, never paid inheritance tax, which is a little bit of a mistake. Make sure you pay your taxes right. And then went bankrupt. So, you know, Denise and I had our first job in seventh grade, and we were really hiding the fact that we were the rich kids, and then we went to the poor kids, but too proud to get the free and reduced lunch. You know, we still had a lot of pride and ego. So when your dad, who's probably a borderline narcissist, and it worked for advantage, too, because we. We learned how to be such high achievers. I really think is when we achieved is when our dad actually showed love. He wasn't like, and I love you, guy, or very affectionate. But when you made him look good, he was proud. You'd get, like, kind of the nod. Maybe at most.

That would be narcissistic. That would be narcissism for sure.

Yeah. Right, right, right. So we would wear. We were great at wearing the mask. I think women can relate to this. You think you have to have. You have to be able to do it all. And we don't ask for help, and we just do it because we're thinking of everything ahead of time. And, you know, you just go, go, go. And I, after my fourth kid, that's when I was like, right, here's my Wonder Woman cape. It is going in the trash. And I'm lighting that bab because the perfectionism. I'm like, it used to be every Lego went into the Lego bin, Every action figure went into the action figure. Like, I was obsessive with organization, and four kids in five and a half years. I was like, do we all have shoes on? I don't even care if they're on the right foot. Are we all getting out the door on time with clothes on and shoes? All right, let's go.

After this podcast, I will be taking in my four grandkids that are all under six years old, and I will not.

That was my world.

I will not Be putting Legos at all. We'll be outside burning fire. So let's just hit the coaches then, real quick. I'd love to know from both of you the best, just, you know, just a quick answer, like, who is your coach? Let's say their name. They may be listening to this and, like, what was the most impactful thing that you got from them?

Do you want me to go? Deborah?

Denise. Yeah, we got to get you on. I haven't seen you in a minute, so come on.

All right, so I would say my basketball coach in high school, Kit Kyle Flower Mound Marcus, was the high school that we played at. We made it to the championship. And she. She had a very delicate way of pushing me and humbling me at the same time. And so what I mean by that is I probably was the slowest one on the team, and she would make us do suicides. And she's like, if I beat you, you're not going to play in the championship game. Because I had a really fast teammate and I knew I could just rely on her. And so it was funny because I guess I was a little bit cockier than I should have been as a 54 point guard. But she just did a really good job at meeting me mentally and physically of what I needed in that time point in my life.

Awesome. Awesome. And so that's the lesson for those who may be listening. Just because you challenge the people you love doesn't mean that it's bad. And there's a perfect example of pushing people you love that, you know, out of her whole experience, this is what she remembers. It's pretty fantastic. Awesome. All right, Deborah, how about you?

So I want to make sure I understood the question. Is it who are we coached by now? Or who is the most memorable coach that we had?

Yeah. So the question is, in your experience of life, right, and you said the coaches were kind of like our grandparents, you know, like, who was it? And did they say something to you that really resonates, that still resonates? Was there a mantra? Was there a theme? Was there a saying, something like that that you go, oh, yeah, Coach Johnson, he always used to say this. And I love this saying, whatever something like that might be.

So mine was my seventh grade basketball coach and science teacher. His name is James Kirk. He is actually still at that school today. So that middle school, we had opened it, and that's very rare for teachers, but. And nowadays, if you were to do that as a teacher or coach, you'd be probably on the news. But he used to come to our house, and he had, like, he spray painted the basketball goal on our driveway. And I would say, what. What he did is he made me feel seen, Uniquely seen. He allowed me to feel heard and things that I wouldn't express. It was all the things I didn't say. It was almost like he could read behind the mask without probing too much. But he would show up, and he was consistent, and I think he could see that. Obviously, I needed a lot of reassurance. And I would look up in the bleachers when I'm playing ball and, you know, looking up to my dad to kind of give me feedback, and he's flirting with the random date that he has for the week. And, you know, I would kind of get disappointed because I needed a little bit more, you know, validation than Denise did. And I would look up and he. He wasn't there. So James Kirk was at my wedding. I still speak to him today. And ironically, he had wins.

Wow. How about that?

Yeah.

So, yeah, the message is, consistency, be present. Right. And. And what's going on. So we always end our podcast, and this will take a little bit because we got two of you, but we want to hear this. And we call this knowledge through the decades. Now, I know you guys are very young. You're not 40 yet.

Are you 39 and holding?

Almost. Okay, well, we'll go up to 30. So what we always like to do is ask you to give us the attitude lesson. Okay. When you think about. Well, I'm going to ask this first. Do you have four kids, too, Denise?

No, sir. So you know who the crazy twin is, right? She's got four, I've got one.

I've already figured it out.

My love language is touch. Let's just call it that touch.

All right. I ain't mad at you. Hey, did have your kid just. And you only get one kid, Deborah. But what's the most inspiring thing your child has ever said to you?

Probably when they repeat my coaching and say, come on, mom, it's all in the mind. I thought. I thought you said it's. It's what you believe, it's what you tell yourself. So it's little micro lessons that then end up following me, following me around as my little accountability partners.

That's awesome. How about you, Denise?

Well, my son's 5, so he's still very young.

He can still inspire you.

He does. He inspires me every day. But I think in this stage that he's in, he turns 5 on Sunday, and what he's done for me is I, I never really knew if I wanted kids. I'm not the sugar, I'm not the sweet. Deborah's like the sweet, the sweet. It's shocking.

I'm sure y' all are shocked at this point.

So I'm very literal. I'm very business. I'm very focused, obviously. And there was a big part of.

My life where I thought, do I.

Do I want the marriage and the kids? And seems kind of like a distraction of what, what I want for my fulfillment of life. When I graduated college, I was never like, let's go get married and pop out kids. And so with him, I have learned just the unconditional love that I have for him and the joy that I have for him is very inspiring and teaches me something every day about myself because I didn't feel that unconditional love from my mom or my dad. And so I think the lesson for me was, you know, your parents, those are the people who you, I guess, expect unconditional love from the most. And that's probably why I thought I wasn't fit to be a mom. I felt fit to be a businesswoman because in business it's not very emotional. You can be very, you know, not emotional, which is fantastic for me.

Right.

But I think that the reason why I felt that way for so long in my life was because I pushed away. I'm not fit for that. That's just not the cards I was. It was never a victim or feel sorry for me, but it was just self awareness of. That's not the cards I was dealt.

Right.

But then I have this child and, and being able to give him the love and the joy and getting it back from him, you know, it's so fun and it challenges me and it teaches me things about myself that I don't know if an adult could teach me because it's wrapped up in this little five year old. So that's what I get from him every day.

That's cool. That's cool. So now I'm going to jump to knowledge through the decades. I'm not going to ask you about the attitude lesson of, well, let's go ahead and do it. You can give me something quick. You kind of just did it for me, Denise. But I'm going to walk you through each decade of your life and I want you to tell me your attitude lesson from childbirth when you were 10, when you were 20, when you were 30, and then today. So when you think about childbirth, what was the attitude lesson of you giving childbirth or Watching your sister give childbirth four times or whatever. What's the attitude lesson from creating new life or, you know, from the instant life begins outside the womb?

I would say, don't give up, because I actually had to do IVF to have my son. And then when I went in to have my baby, they. They couldn't induce me, and I didn't want a C section. And so I took the weekend. And long story short, when I came back from the weekend, I still couldn't dilate. And they said, okay, you have to have a C section. And. And so the whole having a kid and then the delivery of the kid, and it felt like it was feeding that story of I'm not meant to be a mom. Clearly, this is the reason why I couldn't get pregnant. Having a baby is difficult, but I realized that that was just stinking thinking. And having a C section is very normal, and a lot of people go through that. And so that child delivery moment for me was, you are meant to have a kid even though you didn't want the C section. That's how it was meant for you. And that doesn't mean that you're not fit for it.

Cool. So don't give up. I love that. Deborah, how about you? Attitude lesson from childbirth.

I've. I've always loved challenging and almost interrupting patterns. I like the shock and all. I will say things that people are like, did she just say that? And they don't always expect it. And so from our delivery being just delivery table, surprise, twins. It was a shocking moment. Like, everyone thought it was just one baby. So I love to interrupt. Just conditioned, adopted beliefs that we believe to be true when they're not. And then also for my own births, I was actually told I would never be able to have kids. So before I got married, I had to. I told my husband, look, I know you want this large family, but they have told me, you know, they've looked at everything possible with my anatomy, and it just. It would be very difficult to have children. I was like, but don't worry, my twin doesn't know this yet. Maybe we could rent her uterus. We'll figure out a way. Right? Hadn't told her that. And I was like, and don't you dare get the typical man, you know, who's thinking, oh, two twins. I'm like, you're not sleeping with my twin. For the record. Okay. We would work something out.

But talk about shock and awe. Now we're talking.

Yeah. Yeah. So all of us. There you go.

Well, you know, Love it or leave it, right? So with all my kids, we were never trying to get pregnant because they had told us we wouldn't be able to get pregnant. And so with Riley, our first, we thought she'd be our one and only. I am nursing. They say when your body's producing milk, it's very difficult. It's kind of like birth control. And sure enough, she was four months old. And I was like, gosh, I kind of feel sick. And they were like, congratulations, you're pregnant. And I was like, again, I. I'm literally just got out of elastic pants and I'm making like, how is this possible? And so we had our first son. We named him boss. That's a whole different story. So I then got on low estrogen birth control, nursing, and sure enough, he was about seven months old. And I was like, gosh, feel sick again. I'm thinking, is it mastitis? You know, when you. When you are making milk and they said, no, congratulations, you're pregnant again. And I was like, we are two teachers on teacher salaries where our daycare bill now and just diapers.

Yeah.

Like, we are trying not to have children. I know Denise gives me a hard time saying, you, you. That's not. Not trying. Like, we. We were not trying.

I did tell, like, I was like, can you put a damn TV in your bedroom?

Like, you.

You know how this works, right?

He was a coach. It wasn't like he coached football and baseball.

So.

So, Glenn, you know the schedules of a baseball and football coach.

But anyway, I know, I know that we're very. We're very irresistible to our women. I know that.

Yeah, well, you know, lots of nagging sometimes when you. I literally had a three, two one, year old and a newborn. When my husband said, hey, I got my dream job offer, my first head coach position, but we got to move across the state, and I'm doing 30 days. And I'm like, what?

Unbelievable.

I would say just, I love disrupting the way people think. And sometimes that's a shock and awe, or it's saying something that is unexpected or just getting people to actually think for a change.

I love it. I love it. Now, I want you girls to think about when you were 10 years old. Number one, were you separated in classes, or did you always get to stay in the same classroom? Just curious on that one. And what was your attitude lesson when you were 10?

So we were separated, and the teachers would ask the parents, do you want them to be separated? And our dad would always say that because when you have Twins, you want them to have their own identity, you know, and you want them to be treated as individuals. Because even parents who have twins today, they'll message us and they'll say, did it bother you when you were called the twins? Because it's always the twins, the twins, the twins. You have one birthday cake. 1. So if you are a parent listening and you have twins, being an individual and being treated like an individual and having your own. Your own day sometimes with your parents, not just lumped together, my message to you is, I think that that's important.

Cool.

Gosh. When I was 10 years old.

10 years old, attitude lesson. Whether you were bullied, you did something, you got in trouble. Think about it.

When I was 10 years old is when my parents, they had just gotten divorced. My mom babied Deborah. My dad loved my older sister. She was the golden child. So I was the epitome of the middle child. And When I was 10, I was the rebellious twin. Never, like, got arrested or anything. But I think I was more seeking attention. And so I would go to detention a lot, and I would be the. I would be the class clown. And so now my old self, looking at that, it was like, was I not getting enough attention at home that I was acting out at school?

Interesting.

So it could never cross the line too much, because if it got to my dad, then my dad would spank us and yell at us and. But I think that middle child syndrome is. I was definitely seeking attention at that time.

Okay, good. Good attitude lesson. All right, Deborah, what was your attitude lesson at 10?

That I don't actually suck. Because when I was 10, that was my narrative is, you suck. Like, you got a 60 on your math assignment. Why can't you read? I almost failed the reading test, and I had to use a PVC pipe when I was a kid to, like, whisper in so it would echo in my ear. So my narrative was, I suck.

Right.

So the lesson would be, don't always believe your narrative.

Okay, good. And so how did you know that you didn't suck? Did you start to accomplish and do some things when you were 10?

Well, I learned you have to suck before you get good at anything. So that. And that's why I like almost even focusing on some of the failures, because that's where I learned and grew the most. Some of my most painful, darkest moments is what I have the most gratitude for. It's not like when people ask, what are you most proud about? Or I immediately go to the hardest lessons, which.

That's cool.

Yeah. There's always beauty in the pain. That's transformation in the pain.

That's attitude. That's called effective blaming, is what that's called. Very effective blaming. All right. Man, would I have loved to known you two growls at 20 years old. Now, I want to know the attitude lesson at 20 from both of you. Ready? Go. Where were you? Like, where were you and what was going on? Go ahead.

So when I was 20, is the first time I felt heartbroken because I. Yeah, so I would say I was dating a guy, and he was this really cute, hot swimmer. And you were in college, and the whole time he was still dating his girlfriend from high school. And I didn't know. And I. For the first time. I would say probably for the first time, I felt rejected. So, yeah, I think at 20 years old, I'd never felt that before. I'm like, what.

How did you deal with it? What was the attitude lesson there? How did you do that?

Horrible. I mean, I turned. I was like, crazy psycho. How dare you? I did not handle it well at all. I mean, I every bit of like. You know that Carrie Underwood song where she's like, I was Carrie Underwood. Crazy, right? Yeah. So I didn't deal with it well. But I need. I'm glad it happened when I was 20, and I needed that to happen because although we had some difficult struggles as an upbringing, I blamed my dad for that. I blamed my dad for losing the house. I blamed my. I just worked harder, and I realized that if I worked harder, I could achieve something, but I couldn't work harder in this relationship to prevent him from cheating.

Yeah, interesting.

So it was interesting. There are some things in life that no matter how hard you work at, you can't control it.

There's a good attitude lesson. All right, Deborah, how about you?

Mine was going from victim to Victor because that was when Denise and I, you know, after college or after high school, we both went to a community college for the first two years because we had to pay our own way through school. We couldn't even get grants because our dad still owed the IRS a lot of money. So all we knew is to work your ass off. Go to school at night, study in the middle night, repeat again and again, again. But then after the two years at community college, Denise went to A and M. Well, they didn't have. My first degree was nursing. They didn't have a nursing program at that time. Again, I wanted to be the Patch Adams of a hospital before teacher rap. Anyways, so that was the first time where I Kind of had to grow up because I no longer even had the safety net of my twin, where every classroom, like, we didn't have to go to college and walk into a classroom and not know who you were going to sit next to or go to a tryout for a team. And whenever they say, okay, partner up, we always had that built in playmate and almost unrealistic expectations because we would beat the shit out of each other. Hey, before, like, I mean, hair pulling, like bullseye on your face. And then a couple hours later, it's like, hey, do you want to go to the mall? Which is not normal. It's not a healthy way that relationships work. You can't treat people that way. And then, you know, everything be fine. So I would say I went from being a victim and just making it about me and, you know, not taking responsibility of my life in all aspects, because I always had Denise kind of being the dominant leader. And when. When you label twins. So if you guys have twins, don't label them because they will play to that role. And so I was labeled as the second one out the shoot. Kind of the shadow that was always hidden in all the sonograms. And, you know, Denise was more the loud, witty, comical class clown. So I just was always behind the scenes and I just played that role because that was the role that everybody gave you kind of identified. Yeah.

Interesting. Very male of you. Very male energy to beat the shit out of each other and then go, hey, yeah, let's go drink.

Oh, you should see.

You girls got some male energy in you. That's what's going on.

Yeah. Oh, definitely. We have a yearbook picture where we're right next to each other and she was pissed off that I was blow drying my hair and she was mad or. And then I was mad that she was talking on the phone at the time. They had cords, so she had hit me because I was talking on the phone. So I had like a black eye and I got pissed off. So I took the hair dryer and I shoved it on her skin, on her cheek, so it burned a bullseye. So in the yearbook you have us right beside each other. Black eye, burned bullseye. That was us.

That's awesome. All right, let's go to 30. I want to respect your time. Do you remember your 30th birthday? Where were you and what was the attitude lesson when you were 30?

Can I share this one? She's probably going to kill me for it. We had. Of course, that's when we tried Botox for the first time free ladies out there who've ever tried Botox for the first time. I don't know what they did. We have high cheekbones, so they went a little low, and we looked like these skeleton, like, pockets. I don't even know what they call it. But you couldn't smile because it only made it worse. And here we were about to turn 30. It was like, days before, and we were like, just don't smile. Because we didn't want people to know we had tried Botox for the first time. So the Botox is great. I endorse it.

Right. But the attitude lesson is sometimes you're beautiful enough, you don't need to be improved.

Right, Right. Exactly.

I love it. How about you, Denise? What about your attitude lesson?

When I was 30 is when I started reaching another level of success. And I realized at that age that I had a negative association with people who made money. And I thought. I thought people who had money or were rich were bad. They were obviously drug dealers, and they lived just this life of strip clubs and drugs. And so I realized that that's not the case. And you can have a positive relationship with money, and that doesn't mean that you're a bad guy.

Yeah, that's so, so cool. You ladies are such lights to me. I mean, I've had such a great time. It's been an hour, if you can imagine, where it's only supposed to do 40 minutes. Freaking like, that was the fastest hour of my day. And you're just so both. You're beautiful physically and you're beautiful mentally and emotionally, and you've been very vulnerable and very open, and I think that we did some good today. I think there's people that are going to relate to your stories and what you've done and that will hopefully relate to your success. Become empowered and become motivated by what you shared today. So I just can't thank you enough for the authenticity that you gave us today. And what I always like to do is just end the show with your motivational speech if you want. There's people that are out there walking the beach, walking their kids, walking their sidewalks, walking their dogs, wherever they may be. Maybe they're in Florida and their house just blew up. You know, I don't know. Maybe there's somebody that isn't terribly successful in the mortgage business or that wants to start a business. But now's your time on the Get Attitude podcast to give us whatever message of hope you want to give for the people that are on the other end of this Microphone. So if you want to start, Denise, and then we'll go to Deborah and we'll close up the show.

So I'd say two things. I would say tell yourself, why not you good? And that might mean business and success. Or why not you as a mom? Or why not? Why not you as a wife? Why not you? And then the second thing is I would really think about what gives you joy. Not. And your dog might give you joy in your kids, but I mean as a single activity, whether it's rollerblading or bike riding or what gives you joy. And make sure you set time aside for that joyful act. At minimum, at least once a year.

I love it. The me cation. I love the me cation. I'm taking one a month because you prescribed it, so I'm doing it. Deborah, how about from the Miss Miss Compassion, Deborah Bird, Tell us your message for our gappers today.

So I. I live by these three things, and it's filling minds with truth, filling hearts with love, and then living a life of service. So you can see my shirt today is anytime you're having a down moment or if you could just think anything that I learn, and I'm addicted to learning, so I'll just put that out there. But I feel like we are meant to continuously learn because there's always somebody that we can serve. And the more we learn, the more we can serve others. So your version of who you are today or whatever dark moment you may be going through, there's a lesson there that then you could use the power of social for social good, and you could teach today the lesson that your prior self needed. But you. You had to learn on your own. So if you can think about every tough or good moment or every. Every morning, what is something that you can learn that's going to fill minds with truth, that's going to fill hearts with love, and then can be a life of service.

I love it. I love it. And that is the light from the Nerd and the Bird. You need to check out the Nerd and the Bird podcast. If you love these girls as much as I did, I'm going to be tuning in. I'm going to be listening to it because I know they are pulling greatness out of people. I know they are pulling out the untold stories of successful people. You want to make sure you go to the Nerd and the Bird podcast. Ladies. It was awesome. And I hope I get to see you again or do another podcast or speak on stage or wherever the hell we're going to be. I have a feeling we'll run into each other again. You guys are beautiful, and thank you so much for giving your hearts, your minds and your soul to us here at the Get Attitude podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you, guys.