SPECIAL EPISODE - Stories Of Black America

This episode is brought to you by KPMG Risk Services. KPMG believes that when you've earned the trust of all your stakeholders, that's when your business has a solid platform to grow. That's the trusted imperative. KPMG Risk Services develop and put in place dynamic risk strategies designed to help your business earn that all important trust. Go to reit, KPMG US Trust to learn more.

What I wanted to talk about is the COVID forms of racism. Because I feel like white people have a tendency and I don't want to group everybody together, but there is a tendency to think, well I'm not a racist, I don't call anyone the N word. I don't do anything like that. That's very overt. But there's such strong covert forms of racism. And the story that I want to talk about is high school chemistry class.

Yet attitude means how can I proactively change the way I think? How can I proactively increase my life? How can I proactively create better relationships and better work situations for me to enjoy it and welcome to the Gap the Get Attitude Podcast the Gap Bridging the gap from who you are to who you want to become and from where you are to where you want to go. Hello, my name is Glenn Bill. I am the founder of the University of Attitude, keynote speaker and author of the number one international best selling book the ABCs of Attitude. And I've been fortunate enough to help tens of thousands of people Get Attitude. Attitude is the secret formula to success in your business and in your life and this podcast is going to help you get yours. So let's get some. I want to welcome everybody. Please remember to subscribe, rate and review. Follow us on our Facebook pages at the Get Attitude Podcast at the University of Attitude. Also on Twitter of attitude and LinkedIn @glenn bill and it's just great to be here with four of my oldest friends. And this is a historic podcast. We are calling this the 8:46 interviews. The 8:46. And in light of all the things that have been going on, I was pondering over the past 10 days, what is it that I am supposed to be doing? I've prayed about it. I've watched the leaders on tv, I've watched the interviews. And the one thing that came clear to me was doing nothing is not an option. And so as I pondered and prayed, this was my solution. This is my part to give the voice to the people that need to share their stories. And I want to share the stories of black men around America in what we call an 8 minute and 46 second interview on May 25, our country changed. Not because of what happened, because that's been going on for a while, but our country changed. And George Floyd was publicly killed in an event which was filmed and witnessed for everyone to see in real time. He was unable to breathe and tortured for 8 minutes and 46 seconds, unable to speak what was on his mind, haunting all of us to make us come to grips with that time frame of his suffering. We are honoring him and what he went through and his family with the 8 minute and 46 second interview. He was unable to breathe and and tortured for that amount of time, unable to speak what was on his mind. These 8 minute and 46 second interviews are meant to help us all grasp the amount of time that George Floyd suffered and to give a voice to his black brothers and black sisters for that amount of time in which he could not express his feelings and his words. These, like I said, are four dear longtime friends of mine. We will first that they will first be able to express their feelings in this time frame in order to discuss their race history, their thoughts on change, and their advice for the future. I suggest to all my white friends and fellow white people that when we try to understand the concept of black culture and the concept of what do we do and what do we say? That you start with the people you know first. That you start with the people you have known the longest. Because what I believe is that we all need to feel safe. And what I am wanting to do in this and today's podcast is to create a safe environment, not just for them, but for us and for everyone who is listening. My hope is that we come out of this with a better understanding of the black story, with real solutions and ideas and thoughts on how to change things at a local level, and with ideas and thoughts on how to improve our lives and the lives of others. This podcast is meant to get you thinking. Right attitude is the way you dedicate yourself to the way you think. And the more we can create attitude alignment when it comes to race, the more and the better chance we have to improve things around us. So we're going to start our 8 minute and 46 second interviews with the one and only George Nolan. Now, I want to just, first of all, introduce all my guests. We have George Nolan, we have Rafael Coffey, Todd Fennell, and Alan Halliburton, all gentlemen who I've known for a while. So, George, we're going to start with you. Good to see you. I Love that smile. It hasn't changed. My man.

Thank you. Good. I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me to have conversations that are so important, given what we experience every day as black men. And being able to share our stories is wonderful. I thank you for the platform.

Fantastic. And so, Jason, we'll start the clock after this introduction. George and I went to grade school. I've known George since I've been in first grade. That puts us at about 30, 43 years of knowing each other. He's been a 20 plus year educator and leadership educator as director, principal, assistant principal, dean of students and equity coordinator, turnaround educator. Committed to rigor and relevance for all students. Strongly believes that it does take a village and a school to raise a scholar. Hope degree dealer. George has the unique experience of literally being around the corner from ground zero of what occurred. So, George, it's time for us to start our interview. Go ahead and start that clock, Jason. Thank you, Jason Jolof in Studio J for producing and being here with us. You able to get it going? Very good. Okay. So, George, what we want to do as we talked about, was to hear your race story. I believe that when we look and engage with the black community, we shouldn't only just see a black man, but I believe that every black man and woman has a story, a story that changed them forever. A story of real racism, whether experienced personally or someone in their family. Could you please share with us your racism story and so we can feel and understand what's inside of you.

Thank you for having me, black man. It's great to be here to share our stories. Primarily growing up in Indianapolis, you know, it was an interesting area in Indianapolis. And as you know, Indiana is probably one of the most racist areas that a person of color can grow in. But the same time there was a holistic approach from the African American community that was very supportive. I remember listening to the old negro spiritual anthem, national anthem, excuse me. Growing up, being in elementary, I remembered some of those stories of, you know, watching the cops and how they were handling and working with some of the people that are African American community. But I think the first, with all that being said, the first experience, I remember growing up on Carrollton Avenue, 51st and Carrollton was. I remember there was a being young and a family that was white that was down the street. You know, we had all kinds of fun as on the neighborhood blocks, we would do some fun things and things like that. But I remember specifically going with this, going down the street and hearing A parent yell for a white parent yell at their kids saying, come home. And so that was fine. I get it. But what had happened was with that is, I heard, you know, I don't want you hanging with those ends. And so I'm little and I'm young, and I'm like, oh, wow. You know, and I think I was about 7 at the time, and just remembering some of that piece is right there, kind of like started to, like, okay, what was this about? Because we were playing, and I remember the families and the parents were somewhat receptive, but then all of a sudden, they felt it was casual and okay to say that. And so that was kind of my first experience with it. But growing up, always having to worry about, you know, how fast you're driving, when I became. When I started and got my driver's license, the interactions that we've had, fortunately, my relationship with you been very positive. You know, we. You know, we kind of, like, knew each other. We grew up. There was no. There was no issues that way. But I can't say that for, you know, my whole overall experience in Indianapolis. But, you know, it's. It was a good base for me to understand collectively what, you know, being a bigot and a racist, what that was all about. So, you know, that kind of, you know, kind of get me. Allowed me to be grounded in understanding the intensity of sometimes dealing with race and not knowing difference. So that kind of gave me a balance on that.

Tell me about. Just take me back to being seven, because, again, I mean, this is what I don't think people get, being called an N word at seven by a bunch of white neighbors. Tell me what was happening inside. What was the feeling in your gut? I mean, did it. Did it resonate? Did it shake you? Do you. You got to remember the feeling. Just clue me in a little bit to more like, what was the feeling and how was it for you?

I mean, it was.

It was hurt, I mean, because, you know, you had a relationship with the kid, and they seemed cool. They. The family seemed, you know, accepting. But when you hear that it was a casual conversation. It was casual. It was just like, boom, right out the mouth. It's like, okay. And at 7, you know, it was a struggle because I was trying to figure out those boundaries and what that was about, and, you know, there was some anger. But at the same time, I was just like, I was too young to kind of know the. Understand the importance of what that means.

Interesting. So I want to go to our second question. If you could create instant Change. What would that be? What would that look like to you in terms of legislation, police interaction or procedure, prosecutorial process or inherent bias? I know there's a lot. Just pick one. But, like, are there one or two things that if you could be king of America that you could change tomorrow, especially dealing with kids in the educational system, what would that be? George?

I think the more we can provide academic opportunities for and build empathy for our kids in the community. I mean, we have white men who grow up who've never been exposed to what it is to be empathetic. And so they don't understand the history. They don't understand, in some aspects they do, but it's always centered on their existence. And so there's never been, especially pre K, we don't have opportunities or push African American history and what that looks like. And it's not, you know, it's not put in their daily lives to understand the struggle. And so there's a sense of being naive to the struggle, and there's a sense of not understanding the struggle and what it means coalesce with. How do we educate our families and kids about the importance of education, how important that is, and making sure that we address the inequities that we have, not only in the education field, but also in the social emotional field. And what happens in society, if I was my blue sky world, is that everybody that walks through the door clearly understands that we all have something share. And I always use this as a buffet. You know, I'm a big guy, I like to eat. But I've always thought it's important to have people come to share and bring something to the table to share with everybody. And so I would say the more we can educate, build empathy and support all of our kids that way, the better.

What do you think white people need to do or what do they need to hear? I know when I wrote to you, I know white guys that were like, I didn't even know black guy till I was 10. I didn't even meet one or say hello to one. So what do white people need to hear? What do they need to do in your eyes?

They need to understand that we are immigrants. That's one. Number two is that the black male and the black person has contributed to our society in ways that that has not been shared with people. They don't understand who built the White House. They don't understand some of those components about our collective contribution to society. And I think, again, what happens in education, we separate kids, and so they don't have the chance to, you know, to, you know, be a part of the process and understand. Our school system is polarized. We separate kids all the time. And so if you go into a lunchroom, you'll see white kids over here, black kids over there, but they don't understand. They don't want to understand. And so how you build that empathy for they can understand and build those relationships that are important. But then also from a legal standpoint, we have to change how we approach people. When and how are we going to approach people in a way that is all about being respectful and kind and generous as an American society. We fail in that area. And so it's tough.

It is tough. Do you feel that there is still hope that things can change and is the time now to make that happen? And we're back. All right, George, thank you for that 8 minutes and 46 seconds. I don't know if you realize that we froze that, but we did what we said we would do. So God bless you and thank you for, number one, leading our young people. And I know that if your magic is with the students up in Minnesota, things are definitely going to be better than if you weren't there. So that was really great. I want to go now to my second oldest friend who I met probably back in 1976. He's an Indianapolis native, 30 year career in IT with a major corporation, 32 year member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity, Inc. And immediate past president of the Indianapolis Alumni Chapter. 20 year football coach of grade school, high school and college men. First met me, like I said, back in 1970. Something. Todd Fennell, come on up in here.

Hey, Glenn. How you doing, my brother?

All right. All right. Good to be with you. Thank you so much. What I want to do is the same thing we did with George. And then after I start the question, you can start the clock to give Todd enough time. Todd, what we want you to do is share your personal or shared racism experience. How old were you when you experienced that and how did it make you feel? Ready? Go. Jason?

Yeah, Glenn. So, you know, you reached out and invited me to participate in this podcast. I appreciate having the opportunity to have this dialogue with you and with others. Didn't really hesitate to tell you yes to it. I know I asked a few questions, but really didn't hesitate to accept the offer. And what I'll say up front is, number one, I've lived and have had a very blessed life. Have grown up in multicultural neighborhood, multicultural schools, things of that nature. Let me say up front, my grandfather was an Indianapolis police officer. I've got a cousin who was on impd. And I've got a ton of friends, as we speak right now, good friends who are police officers in one form or fashion. So there's nothing in what I'm sharing here or what I'm speaking about here that is specific to all cops or anything of that nature. I think it's very important for us to understand that just like people, there are good people and bad people. There are good cops and bad cops. The one story I would share with you, however, does have to do with a police officer. And it had happened when I was probably 16 or 17 years old. I grew up, like I said, multicultural neighborhood. Butler, Tarkington, 51st and Capital. I didn't grow up in the hood. I don't know what it means to live in the hood, so I can't speak about that experience. Nonetheless. Nonetheless, one summer evening, I was walking home from a friend's house. It was dark outside, and I got. Glenn, if you recall where I live. I got to my house on the corner of Capitol and Beverly, and I was beginning to walk down the hill to my house. Police car rolled up. And without making the story too long, he detained me in front of my house for about 10 or 15 minutes. He didn't put me in cuffs or anything like that. Didn't ask me, you know, any. Any kind of questions, but just detained me and was harassing me. And I pleaded with him, hey, man, let me just go to the door and get my dad. Let me just help you understand that this is my house that you are detaining me in front of. Let me go get my dad so we can get this all squared away. Right. Eventually, you know, he went on about his business. Never did allow me to go up and get to my parents. But as soon as he rolled away, I went into the house and just basically exploded with. With my dad saying, you know, how does something like this happen? I'm a good kid. I don't. I don't get into bad stuff. I wasn't doing anything. Why did he do that?

Right?

So, you know, Glenn, I'm 53 years old today.

Happy birthday.

Like, today, not today. Oh, okay, now.

Okay, I got you.

But yet. And still, when I was 16 or 17 years old, this is still a vivid memory in my mind, in my heart, and in my soul. Right? And so I could tell several similar stories, but that's what we live with.

And so, again, what I feel. I feel what that story did to your nervous system and I think when people that haven't hung around black guys or people that don't understand the story of blacks. And I'm not putting myself up on a pedestal at all because I have limited references compared to most white people, I'm sure. But what I don't think. And I was thinking about Drew Brees and all the trouble he got in, I don't. And Lord knows he knows plenty of black people. But these stories get in the nervous system of the black culture, and that's what I don't think people see. So I appreciate you sharing that. And I could tell that it still affects your nervous system when you tell that story. So now I want to make you king of America and somebody that could quickly create instant change in legislation, police interaction, procedural prosecutorial process, or inherent bias. What would you change if you could right now that would help.

Yeah. So, you know, in my mind, there's a couple of things we could look at. I'm sure there's tons of things. A couple of things that immediately come to my mind. Have to do more or so with policing since that's really what has been such a challenge for us in the black community. Again, not all cops are bad. Some are good, some are bad. But two things come to mind, and I'll say up front here, I'm not familiar with laws to any significant extent to know if something is or is not in place. But the first thing that comes to mind is, at the end of the day, murder is murder and the unjust killing of any human being, black, white, brown, purple, pink or blue. The unjust killing of any human being must be taken as it occurs. And there can't be any special dispensations because you do or don't have a badge. You need to be treated and held accountable for the crime that has occurred. So murder is murder. So I don't know what kind of laws are or are not in place related to what happens, what is the course of justice when a police officer is involved. But I would look in that space. Secondly, I honestly believe that body cams for all police officers should be mandatory. You know, we can talk about how much it costs and things like that, but if you think about what we spend, what other types of things we spend money on, I think there's probably fair justification to say, yeah, we need to be spending money here on body cams for all police officers instead of elsewhere. So those are a couple of thoughts that I have.

And of course, the body cams. I forget the most recent tragedy. But of course, the body cams are off when it occurred. Let me ask you this question. What do you think white people need to do? Or what do they need to hear?

Yeah. So I think first and foremost, white folks need to understand that white privilege is real. We're not gonna argue on that point. White privilege is real. Number two, I think if white people wanna make a difference, the first thing they need to do is listen for understanding and not listen to be baking your reply, right? So I think Covey said, listen first to understand, then to be understood. You got to understand the plight, understand the situation, understand the background before you can even take the first step in figuring out how you can help. And then number three, and I really think this is not just white people. This is everybody. At the end of the day, it starts in your heart. Your heart. You have to start with yourself, right? So when Jesus was asked, you know, what's the greatest commandment? His response was, love thy neighbor. That's the first and most important. So if you don't start there, if you can't get yourself there, then that's a whole different conversation, Glenn.

And yeah, you just. And again, you wonder where that seed is sown and where that seed. Seed is grown. And certainly people don't come out with these thoughts and with these feelings. They are planted and watered and proximity is a bitch. Tell me this. What's the best advice you could give to the younger generation of black kids?

I would say it's a matter of responding versus reaction. It's a matter of rational thinking versus irrational reaction to situations.

And when you think of. When you think of the best way to respond. All right, we're back with the eight minutes or the eight seconds of silence to remember George Floyd. I hope everybody's getting the grasp as we're communicating our messages and our guests are communicating their messages. That's. As long as that guy had his knee on George's neck. I mean, crazy. The thought of that is crazy. And this is why we're doing this, to drive that home and just to put yourself in that place of sheer terror and fear, to me, it shakes me at the core. The next guest that we have is a dear friend of mine, Rafael Coffey. Rafael is a father, husband, disabled veteran black man as he put on his thing. I love that. And he is also an attorney, so maybe we can get some legal thoughts from you, Coach. And I know that you've done a lot of in the employment area of discrimination and that type of thing, but we want you to talk from your heart and we'll start the clock when I get done with the first question. So Rafael and I have known each other since freshman year in high school, since we've been 14. And like I said, he's a dear friend. Just like a brother to me. So, Rafael, I do want to hear your personal or shared racism experience story.

When you.

When it first, were you like, holy moly. This is not. I can't believe this. How old were you? How did it make you feel? Why don't you share that with me?

Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you for inviting me to participate. A couple things, you know. One, what Todd said was pretty profound because I've known you and Todd since 1982. 38 years. Pushing 40 years. That.

That's a long time.

It's a month of Sundays, so to speak. And it was pretty profound because Todd, he shared a story where he was detained by a police officer. And he. He prefaced by saying he was a good kid.

Right.

And I want to. I want to co sign with you. Todd was a real good dude. Still is. And one of. He was a class ahead of us.

Right.

But you were one of the guys that, when I was a young, impressionable high school student, I kind of looked up to you. I thought you were going to tell a story about your old green Chevy, and I thought the story was going to have something to do with that. But nevertheless, this is a guy that was doing all the right things and it still happened to him.

Right.

In terms of the first episode, I'm not really gonna say. I'm not really gonna go into that. You know, I'll just say that, similar to Todd, when I was a kid, we were ensconced in middle class. My mother was a teacher. My father worked at the post office. We did not live in the hood. Multicultural. And then I can go a step further. My parents were rural people from Tennessee. They bought 10 acres outside of Noblesville.

Right.

When I was 7, 8 years old. So I can assure you that Noblesville, Hamilton county was not the way that it is now. Not quite as diverse. So that would have been the.

It's diverse now.

Well, you know, I know Hamilton Southeastern and Fisher's High School look very different than when my brothers went there.

Okay. Okay.

But I can tell you there were instances out there from other kids. And, you know, I know the first time I got in a fight, Right. I was probably eight years old, you know, little kid on the football field, and we're fighting. And then another time, then there were a few other Episodes as I got into playing baseball in high school, you'd hear cat calls from a distance.

Wow.

And you know, my thoughts there were just, wow. Are you gonna be offended if I use an expletive or two?

No, I want you to. That's why this is a podcast. I want it. Look at.

This is safe.

This is raw and real. And I want to know when. Because you are a temperamental black man. I want to know when you were pissed off and what caused it. That's what I want to know.

So in high school, when it would happen, it was probably because I was putting in work on the baseball field, and I thought, you're a little piece of shit because you're scared. If you're gonna say that, have enough backbone to say it to me.

Right?

But I really kind of got off track. What I wanted to talk about is the COVID forms of racism, because I feel like white people have a tendency. And I don't want to group everybody together, but there is a tendency to think, well, I'm not a racist. I don't call anyone the N word. I don't do anything like that. That's very overt. But there's such strong, covert forms. Forms of racism. And the story that I want to talk about is high school chemistry class.

Let's do it.

And the teacher, on more than one occasion, accused me of cheating off of some of the people that sat around me. And I can assure you that was not the case. They were looking on my paper, but it simply is this mindset of, I've got white people here, and I've somehow got black people. They're in a lesser state. They're lesser people. They're less intelligent. There's such this strong tendency to attach negative stereotypes to people of color all day, every day. And that was something. And I know that that episode in high school chemistry class, it really pissed me off. I kind of. I didn't really laugh it off, but I just thought, once again, you don't even have any idea what those words mean to someone. And it didn't make me cry in my corn flakes. But I just thought, you know what? This is just another example. That's 35 years ago.

Sure.

But I can assure you that that type of thing is happening right now all day, all day, every day. And it doesn't matter if it's athletics, academics, occupational, or out here, George Floyd walking the streets.

Right, right. Well, then. And so let's. Let's bridge into that, because. And you may not want to go here, but if you could change, right, a law, prosecution, police interaction, or, you know, again, racism on the job, which I know you, you were in. Talk to me about one or two. Like, like Glenn, if this would just happen, do you know what? If we could get this to happen, this could make a difference quick.

Well, I mean, we could talk about sentencing guidelines, we could talk about police wearing video cams, probably turn them off, but that's a whole different conversation. But I think it's important to talk about being receptive to having this conversation.

Right.

Because I think a lot of people, as I alluded to, they think of themselves as, hey, I'm open minded. I've never done anything to exhibit any sort of racist behavior, but yet there it is. And that's that point of white privilege. I think it is kind of an umbrella that everything falls below. The great example you brought up Drew Brees is, you know, Laura Ingram is on Fox News.

Oh, yeah.

And let's just say not a fan for a variety of reasons.

We'll tweet her after the show. Jason.

So when LeBron James says he makes a comment in 2018, right. Basically what she was saying is, hey, black boy, take your basketball and go dribble.

Right?

But when Drew Brees makes the comment right relative to race in 2020, oh, he has First Amendment rights. He should be able to speak his truth and shouldn't be judged for it.

Right.

But that is the type of thing that I think all of these gentlemen have felt in some form or fashion. I know I have.

And that's the point of the show. The point of the show is you're just not black people. You're black people with a deep inbred story in your nervous system, which we don't have and which we don't know, which we haven't heard. And that's why I think it's important that we bring these stories out. We can act like we know them, but have we sat down and felt them with our brothers and sisters? When Todd helped me with the question, you know, what do white people need to do or hear? And white people are very defensive when it comes to grouping you, all the white people together.

And I want to piggyback onto that.

Because I want to know notion. I want to know.

Well, it's, well, I haven't done anything to you.

Right.

But in the next book, I always like to refer to some people as well intentioned white people. They're not like out here just hating on you. No.

Right.

But they'll say things like, wow, he's so smart for black kids or wow, he speaks so well for a black kid.

Boy, he's not an athlete like you'd think.

Right.

And it's not on the other side.

Right. It's not meant to be a criticism or a slight, but if the person who is being given the so called compliment is really listening.

Right.

That's absolutely what it is. And I know that white kids, there are no white kids, that somebody said, oh, he's so smart or speak so well for a white kid.

Right.

But this is, this is the type of thing where people just have to be receptive to listening versus getting in a defensive posture, which they do. Absolutely. And especially if the conversation veers over into politics and the president, administration and all that, we don't have no time for that. But then it gets. Well, just because I support the president, I'm not a racist. Well, don't support someone that espouses racist beliefs.

Right. All right. My man Raphael Trump could take 8 hours and 46 minutes, but we won't go there again. My goal is to provide a safe environment for all those speaking and for all those listening. My goal is that people listening to this, white or black, can relate to the questions. They can answer the questions, they can discuss the questions. They can look inside, they can make things better. We can open conversation, and hopefully we're creating an example that shows safe conversation is the way to go. And that's where healing begins. So my fourth and final guest is one of my favorite people. He is a graduate of what I call the Clarity Summit. He was one of my best football players I've ever coached. He's a father of four. He is a Purple Heart army veteran. He's an entrepreneur and life coach. Mr. Allen Halliburton. What's up, Hallie?

Hey, how you doing, Coach?

My number 54 and Allen and I, we loved each other from the day we met. And just I respect and thank you for your service to our country and the sacrifices that you put in. Alan just got back from a battle with COVID and he was in a coma. For how long?

Well, that was a diabetic coma. That started it.

Right.

It was about three days. I was crazy. Yeah.

Yes. Just crazy. So I'm glad you're alive.

Yeah, me too.

Thanks. Thank God for that. So we're going to go ahead with Alan's 8 minute and 40 second interview. And so, Alan, we'll start with this local Indianapolis guy. I would like to have you share your personal or shared racism experience that affected you in Your nervous system deep to your core. How old were you when you experienced it, and how did it make you feel?

Okay, I got a couple short ones. The first one, I was actually 16 years old, Junior at Chatard, and I had asked a girl on a date, and she says, well, I can meet you. I was like, well, nah, I'll come pick you up. And she's like, nah, my dad won't let me get in the car with you.

You right?

And I said, what? I said, I shook your dad's hand at the football game the other day. She said, yeah, you're a football player, but you ain't coming to my house.

Right?

And so that was just like, wow, okay.

You know, is real.

Yeah. Like, okay, I'm good enough to play football for you, and you can shake my hand and give me a hug after a football game.

Right.

But I'm not good enough for your daughter. So that was a major experience.

Now, did you know and feel and have racism exist before you were 16?

Oh, I've had tons of.

Okay.

Yeah.

But that was, that was one that hit you over the head.

It hit me because the reason I picked Shatard, right, over other schools was because I felt that it was a family environment.

Right.

I felt a bond with a lot of people that I met there. And I, I, I just didn't expect to hear that to get any type of, you know, racism like that.

Right.

So that's why it was a major shock, an awakening, you know, for me.

Give us a couple more. Well, you said you had a couple quick dive into that.

No, no, you're fine. The other one is funny because it's about a green Chevy that I had. So I just, I got out of the army.

He's got to be a criminal. Look at that damn car.

Hey. So I had bought a 1990 box Chevy, and that's what they call a dope boy car.

Ah.

I had just painted it. Got it painted a metallic jade.

Oh.

Had the interior done and everything. And I was a football coach in Hamilton County. And so I'm driving to Hamilton County, I have my football cleats in the car with me, and I get stopped on Hazeldale Road. Was not speeding, you know, just cruising down the street. You know, officer walks out of my car, looks in, I said, you know, how you doing? And he said, where you going? And I said, I'm going to work.

Marion County.

Hamilton. Yeah. So I said, I'm going to work. And he said, where you work at? And I said, the school up here. And he says, what's that? What's that debris on the ground? I said, man, that's dirt from my cleats, man. You know, dirt, grass. I'm a football coach, right? So he goes back to his car. I'm sitting there for about 10 minutes. He comes back over. Forget the question he asked me, but, you know, I'm starting to get nervous. And so I just start naming every police officer that I know. I. I said, hey, man, I worked with Jim Leisure. I worked with Kevin Jennings. I know all these cops. And so I asked him for his badge number, to which he says, yeah, how'd that go? Well, he gave me his badge number, but once I started naming the cops, that kind of shook him. And so he says, well, I'm gonna let you go, but you need to be careful driving this car in this area.

Hello.

And so, yeah, that messed up my day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, you know, the fact that you need. That you needed to be told that. The fact that it needed to be said, and the fact that that's even a reality lets you know that we're not where we need to be. Right. I mean, it's just. It's crazy. But my guess is these are stories that people don't get. You know, as a black man, you better be careful how you paint your car. And we're gonna show you a one minute video that shook me to the core when it was. When it was played, when Todd sent it to me today, and, I mean, I was furious. And we're gonna play that after Alan's time. All right, Alan, so thank you for those stories. Now, you were in the military. I don't know if you experienced racism in the military or not, but I'm guessing you did. That was what Vic Fangio said. There's no racism in the NFL. I went, holy moly. Okay, so I'd like to give you extra time. I don't mean to be talking. That was something. If you could make a change, right, in law enforcement and legislation wherever, what change would you make right now? What would make a difference?

So I read a quote, it was this morning, actually, and it said that laws and actions don't change until money gets disrupted. And so thinking about that, every time cops commit crimes or have misconduct trials or anything like that, those trials are paid by the taxpayers. Between 2011 and 2014, Baltimore taxpayers paid 5.7 million in misconduct fees geared towards cops. So a change that I would make is instead of the taxpayers paying this, we're gonna hit the police pensions and retirements and that's gonna cause you to police each other, right? Because if I'm getting close to 20 years, I'm getting close to retirement, and I got Joe Schmo over here wanting to act stupid.

Right?

And now you're pulling money out of my pension to cover this trial and. And to pay, you know, people that were harmed by this, I'm going to step up as an officer and say, you need to cut that out.

Right, Right.

You know, that's pretty smart.

Very well thought out. Did you get that yourself or did somebody help you with that? Not.

I did that myself.

Did you? That's pretty good. Be careful running for office with that one. That could be very interesting. And again, this isn't a pile on the Cops podcast, right? I mean, this is just conversation that is coming out, but it's conversation that is necessary. And I know that all of us, everyone on here knows cops, and we love cops, and there's 1 2% that probably we don't love. And so if you are police officer or in the military, thank you for your service. Alan, what do you think white people need to hear or white people need to do?

Accountability. Just holding people accountable, and that's everybody. You know, if you see something, you know, say something, do something, you know, don't. You know, the first thing we do is, especially in this era, we pull out the phone and start recording, Right? And I mean, that. That. That's a form of accountability, because I can, you know, issue that to. To the proper authorities. But, you know, you see people that are. They're doing this George Floyd challenge, right? And so, you know, you know, what is it? So it's basically. It's. It's basically white people putting. Laying 1, 1, 1, 1. One white person lays down, the other white person puts their knee on his neck.

That is Jack.

And they're taking the picture.

That is jacked up.

And.

And that's happening.

Oh, yeah, that's happening.

They're not getting physically abused.

And even if you know these people, right, you know, say so, you know what's good, you know what's right and wrong.

Right. You know, I can't believe that. That's crazy.

I mean, Lou Holt said it. I only got one rule, right? Do the right thing. And everybody knows what's right and what's wrong. We don't have to have a thousand laws. Just do the right thing.

Mm. That's crazy.

So. Wow.

That. That would piss me off. That pisses me off just thinking about it. So talk to me.

You got four children Yes, I do.

How old are they?

18, 16, 12 and 8.

And you know, we did. I know me and you talked about what this effect this is having on black women and mother of black sons. Talk to me a little bit about your thoughts on how this is affecting them and how do you feel when your kids go out at 9:00 at night?

Yeah, and that's major because that's one thing that people aren't thinking about is, you know, these black women that have these children and they don't, you know, my child is out and I'm worried every time my child leaves the house because I don't know if they're going to be pulled over like co. You know, Ty Fennell was right. Are they going to be shot? Are they going to be beat?

All right, we're back after our 8 second pause. All right, Alan Halliburton, thank you. And I want to thank all of my guests. What I want to do now is, is to pull up this video that was sent to me. So if the stories that you were told by these intelligent, smart, influential givers in society, if that did not reach you, if their personal stories didn't reach you, I want you to imagine yourself as a 10 year old black kid and say, what's the best advice I can give a 10 year old black kid? And I think, Jason, if you can cue this up, it's, this is what it's like. And I wouldn't know, but here we go.

Don't put your hands in your pockets. Don't put your hoodie on. Don't be outside with no shirt on. Check in with your people. It don't matter. Even if you're down the street, don't be out too late. Don't touch anything you're not buying. Never leave the store without a receipt or a bag, even if it's just a pack of guns. Never make it look like there's an altercation between you and someone else. Never leave the house without your id. Don't drive with a wife beat on. Don't drive with a durag on. Don't go out in public with either. Don't ride with the music too loud. Don't stare at a Caucasian woman. If a cop stop you randomly and start questioning you, don't talk back, just compromise. If you ever get pulled over, hands on the dashboard and ask, could you get out your license, registration.

Damn good advice, yes or no. And we any anybody can speak up here. I mean, what does that video say to you? And we'll start with Whoever. George, we haven't seen you in a minute if you want to chime in. What does that video. How does that feel to you, George? Did George head out? George might have headed out.

No, I'm here. I'm here.

Okay.

Just had it muted off.

That's cool. Did you get to see that video?

Yeah, I did. It's powerful. It's, you know, it's heart wrenching to hear the perspective of our young kids and their voice. And I hear it and see it every day with some of the kids I work with and I try to bring into scholars and things like that. It's powerful.

What do you think the biggest challenge is as a leader of the educational system for you and for the young black kids that are under you?

I just think we have to reemphasize how important education is to at least finish high school and then kind of compete in the global marketplace. And it doesn't have to necessarily be a college, but it can be a career. It could be plumbing, electrician. We just have to have a solid base. But like I go back to what I had mentioned before. We have to build empathy with all our kids. Service, learning, giving back to our community, supporting each other in a way that, you know, we just. We've lost our way as a society in some aspects where the village is not as strong. I remember being disciplined young from my neighbors, or at least having that conversation from the neighbors, and we just lost our way in that aspect, along with having police force that has systematically been an issue since we came over. You know what I mean?

Sure.

Police were actually the original. When we had slaves run away, they were original people to go find a slave. So, I mean, those are some of the different things that we have to understand from a systemic point of view about how we educate our kids, support our kids, but then also work like heck to make sure our law enforcement are understanding and empathetic.

George, talk to me about, is there a crisis for minority teachers? Like, do we need more black teachers? What is being done to do that? And is there a website or is there something we can do to get more black teachers in schools?

Well, up in Minnesota, that's been a big issue. I mean, there's research that suggests when a kid has a black teacher or black male in front of them, they tend to do better academically and socially. I think there's been a lot of recruitment that has a lot of human resources will go to HBCUs to try to recruit down south or out east. And so that's been an effort, maybe Chicago. So there's lots of efforts being made, but it's still education. You don't pay well.

Right.

You don't pay well. I think our educators need to be one of the highest paid professions. They're not paid well. And so you don't get that entry point for a lot of our community or families or people who look like me. So that's tough.

Yeah, that's cool. All right, Todd Fennell, tell me, when you watch that video, what was going through your head?

Yeah, Glenn, So you know that that video is the 2020 version of what many or maybe even most black people know as the talk. Right. So when. When you're growing up, your parents give you the talk, and they run through the list of things to do or not to do to make sure that you come back home. To make sure that you come back home, period. And I don't have sons. I've got two daughters. But believe me that the talk has been had with. With my daughters. They're 24 and 21 now, but they remember the talk. So that is the 2020 version of the talk. And that's, again, that's reality. So you speak about it, Glenn, in terms of those experiences being in our nervous system. It's a part of our coping mechanism. It's a part of how we have to operate in order to make sure that we come home at the end of the day. Right. I would be very surprised if there were white families that sat around the dinner table and talked about the talk. Right. So again, I go back to the fact that white privilege is real. Okay. So, you know, I thought when we were talking about doing this podcast and you had that question, I thought I would share that video with you, help you understand the point I was trying to make in terms of we're not talking about this being a problem that black people have to solve.

Right, Right.

This is a problem that all of us have, that all of us have to solve. But most importantly, white folks need to take more action, in my opinion, than many or most black people. It's about understanding, accepting, operating from the heart, acknowledging that we're on an uneven playing field.

And, yeah, I never got that talk, but I. But I do know that you got a grandson.

I do. And as it stands, you know, he's four years old. He is mixed race, but at the end of the day, we know that mixed race equals black. So at some point, when he's ready, the talk will be had with him as well.

I have a godson who is Mixed race. And his mother constantly is saying, those are the children that can actually change this. Now, I don't know if that's true or if it's not true, but interracial marriage is certainly something that is way more prevalent than it ever was. And that's a whole nother podcast. But I am happy. I love watching you and your grandson. I know you love him to death and we always will pray for his safety. Rafael, tell me what you thought of that video and what did that bring up for you?

Well, I thought it was real talk. Yeah, it's a damn shame that parents have to do that, but it's real because the irony is if you don't have those communications, we get George Floyd situations.

Right.

And I think if you talk to, if we took 100 black people and said or asked them, were you surprised about what happened to George Floyd? They'd say no.

Right? Zero. 100 out of 100.

Exactly. And then if we ask the second question of how many of you believe that the police officers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?

Right.

I question how many of them would say, yeah, I believe that because this is not new. And we've even had videotaped.

Right.

Situations very similar to this and nothing happens.

Right.

So like I said, it's a shame that you have to do that, but, you know, once you decide to have kids and you're a person of color, it has to happen.

Right? Right. It's it. I sent Todd, I was sent another video, which hopefully you got Todd, of the exact same chokehold on another black guy who. And I don't know if he died or not, but it is happening that the thought is which is the real question is the fervor, the attention, the awakening is at an all time high. But in 10 days, when something happens, is it all just going to go back down? I mean, and that's what Obama was talking about. And that's what I said in the podcast which spawned all this. I said, does Joe Biden not understand the opportunity in front of him? I mean, like, he should be on TV or any leader. Mayor Joe Hog said, I'm sitting there going, how can he not be on tv, you know, in the middle creating things as a politician? But you know, they got to get votes and it's Indiana, so maybe that's the way it is. And then one of my mentors is Trent Shelton. I would encourage any of you guys watch Trent Shelton. Trent's got about 7 million followers. Trent is black, man. He is real and his message was, don't. If you're white, don't do nothing. Right? Doing nothing is not good. And number two, everybody black and white, it starts with you. And he said, when I become a grandfather, when they talk about George Floyd in 2020, I don't want to look at him and say, I didn't do anything. And so that's what hit me over the head. And I said, damn, Trent, I need to get the Get Attitude podcast going. I was up all night 3 thinking about the format of this and the context, because I hope that this is the start of something for a lot of people, whoever is listening out there, that you take this form and you go interview people for 8 minutes and 24 or 8 minutes and 46 seconds. Hallie, let's finish with you. What did that video mean to you? And you had mentioned a lot of your boys out on the east coast are like, man, is this going to be as concerned conspiracy thing or what's going on with that? So clue me in a little bit what that conversation was about.

Yeah. So I received a talk very similar to that. And I have boys myself. My two oldest are boys. And I'm not gonna say that I've talked to them like that. Their mothers tend to handle that because I. This is something that we shouldn't have to talk about. And I'm not blind to the fact, you know, it's just that it angers me to talk to my children like that, you know, like, you know.

You.

Know, hey, you can't a put. Put your T shirt on because you got that beater on, right? And you can't drive around the corner to get something right. You know.

That ain't right.

It ain't right. You know, and I. And I shouldn't. And I shouldn't have to do that, right?

That's not a free society, right?

No, negative.

Right?

Negative. Yeah. No boys on the east coast.

You.

Know, it's a lot of conspiracy theories going on. And everybody, you know, they just, you know, they're like, hey, you know, is this show, you know, geared towards a conspiracy theory? You know, and I'm like, nah, this is. This is black men telling their stories, telling their life, you know, a race, you know, things that happen to them, racial experiences.

Right.

I will say I don't. It's a lot of interracial. I'm sorry, I'm jumping to a different topic because it was something that you said that stuck to me, where you're saying the interracial, the biracial kids are are the kids that can save this or make a big change.

Right.

There's a lot of biracial kids in my family, and I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that right now, these kids, these young adults, are actually causing that change. Right now, social media is causing that change because racism's always been there. This has been happening forever. But now to have it on your tv, right, where, you know, the thing is, we know black people were dying from cop killings, right? But to actually sit there and watch it, that's a totally different experience. And to have that at the forefront is what's going to cause this change. And it ain't just the mixed kids. It's the fact that you have black and white people doing it, because it's been black people protesting forever. But now that you have white people actually out there holding Black Lives Matter signs.

Right.

You got white people a lot of doing that. Yeah. And that's what I'm saying. A lot of them, Hell, you look at tv, sometimes it's more white people out there protesting than black people.

Right.

You know, in certain locations. And you got brothers out in California, you're Mexican, Hispanic. I'm sorry, Hispanic brothers out there, you know, where a population has 2% black people.

Right.

But they're out there like, hey, we're tired of this. You got your brothers in Toronto and London. And so it's. It's the fact that we have this and we're seeing it live.

Right.

You know, and that's what's going to be the change of this.

Yeah, it's the. It's the unmasking of racism. Right. We all had our masks on. Covid hit. We got our masks on. But it's time to unmask racism. Social media is doing it. I want to respect the time of our viewers. I could. I could go on for four hours, but then our message would be diluted. And I think, George Todd, Raphael and Allen, you serve George Floyd's remembrance in his life, in his memory, in the 8 minutes and 46 seconds that he was not able to talk very well. And I hope that you were inspired by whatever hopefully he brought to this podcast and that I hope the 846 that you got to speak changed a little bit of something in you. But more importantly, I hope that it changes. It changes everybody that listens to this podcast. I ask that if you liked what you heard, that you share this podcast, that you send it to people that need to hear it, and most of all, that you find these people on social media and thank them for putting their time in today and some. So, George, Todd, Rafael, and Alan, thank you so much for being here on the Get Attitude podcast. God bless you all and may your families stay very, very safe.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Glenn.

All right, thanks, guys. The 846 interview stories of Black America on the Get Attitude podcast. This podcast is a part of the C Suite Radio Network. For more top business podcasts, visit C Suiter.

Com.