The Attitude It Takes On The Different Roles You Play With Abdul-Hakim Shabazz

In a world full of turmoil, despair and darkness, you need to carry the light. Season three of the Get Attitude podcast is where we will ignite your mind, your heart, and your attitude. And welcome to the Get Attitude Podcast, the Gap. I am your host, Glenn Bill, international best selling author, keynote speaker, and all time curious attitude student. Please remember to like us, share us, and subscribe and follow our podcast. Today we have a very special guest with us, somebody with about as many titles as myself. He is a person that is a constant giver. He is a mayoral candidate here in Indianapolis. He is also an attorney, a college instructor. He is a political writer and a radio talk show host. Ladies and gentlemen, we want to welcome Abdul Hakeem Shabazz to the Get Attitude podcast.

Thank you, my friend. Every time I hear my introduction on my titles, I get more and more tired.

Yes, I don't doubt that. Well, I need your energy today.

Yeah, you got it today.

Because we got some people going on. Out of all of those things, out of all the things we just talked about, I'm curious, which one do you enjoy the most?

It's like asking which is your favorite child.

Yes.

You love them all equally, but for different reasons.

I see.

My lawyer job is my responsible child. My political commentator job is kind of my attitude mouthy child. My college professor job is kind of my middle child. So you love them all differently, except for the youngest one. You really, you love him, but you can't stand him because it reminds you of you when you were a child.

I love that. When we talk about you being or when we just talk about being a child. I'd love to know what is your definition of attitude and who would you say had the biggest influence on your attitude?

I would say both my parents did. Cool. Because they both had very positive attitudes with everything. And what's interesting is that my mother always said that everything happens for a reason, whether it's good or bad. So just be smart enough or patient enough and you'll figure out exactly what it is.

I see.

And she's right. Because as I jokingly say, had my ex girlfriend not broken up with me, I'd never met my wife.

Well, there you go. Right, right. And then tell us about your father's influence on your attitude.

His attitude was the belt, actually. I'm just kidding.

Right.

I was my father's oldest male child, so he had a big belief. He was. My father was a big believer in education.

I see.

He said, so no matter what, I give you $25,000, you can buy a car you can pay for education. Which would you do? I gotta take the education, dad. It's like, why? Because you can't take that away. The car is eventually going to break down. You got to get another one, like, exactly right. Yeah. My parents were big believers in education in our household growing up.

And what were their professions?

My father was an accountant, my mother was a caterer.

Oh, and did you grow up here in Indianapolis?

Actually grew up in Chicago. Lived here twice. First tour duty was 1990-93.

Okay.

Because we lived in Europe for a while because my dad was. He was in the military.

I see.

And so we went to Europe when there were two Germany. So as I carbon date myself here, West Germany. East Germany. Then came back here in 1990. Because my grandmother lived in Champaign, she was ill at the time, so my mom wanted to be close to her. Supposed to living in Pennsylvania somewhere. So we lived in Indianapolis. Also went to college of Northern Illinois University.

The Huskies.

Yes, yes. Did that for a couple years. Then went to work in Bloomington, Illinois as a radio reporter for a while at WJBC radio, which is literally 140 miles up the interstate from WIBC Radio.

Okay.

Did that for a couple years and went to graduate school at the University of Illinois. Got my master's in Government Public affairs. Doing that. I work for a radio station called WMAY Radio. I was a political reporter covering the State House, State Capitol. After doing that, I went to work for the Illinois Attorney General as one of his media people. While working for him in Springfield, went to law School in St. Louis. I went part time, three, four nights a week for three and a half years. Drove 100 miles each way, back and forth for three and a half years.

Now that takes some attitude.

Yes. To do that as one time. A perfect story. One time my wife and I were in Springfield just visiting friends of mine. And so that Saturday we were heading down to St. Louis to go visit some more law school friends. He's like, honey, did you. So we're about, oh, about halfway about exit 50, 52 in the road. And she's like, you just do this every day? Like, yes, we do. Three, four days a week. After working all day, then 3:30, got in the car, drove to law school till 8, 9, 10 o', clock, drove back, went to bed, got a born, did the same thing all over again.

Wow.

That's why I don't accept excuses for bad behavior.

Right. Or for tardiness.

Exactly right.

How do you treat students that enter your room tardy?

Well, here's what I tell My students is I treat them as adults. That's kind of point number one.

Yes.

And people accuse kids of being snowflakes. Like, well, you could call them snowflakes. Yeah. But we never had to deal with going to school and actually getting shot.

Right.

So they have a whole different set of dangers that we never had to deal with. So kind of keep that in mind. What I tell my students is like, hey, you guys are adults. I'm going to treat you like adults. We're going to try to make class as fun, as interesting as humanly possible. Because I want you to come and not miss class. But if you have to miss class, argue, treat it like your job. Call me, let me know that you're not going to be here or you're running late. And the reason why I did that is because I said you wouldn't go to go to dinner like Hyde Park Steakhouse, order $200 worth of food and not eat it and just get up and leave.

Yes.

So you would do that for dinner? Why they move. God. Would you do it for your education?

Right. Because we got a lot going on here. And what do you teach?

I teach business, law, mass media at the University of Indianapolis. Wow. Also teach political science on occasion. I teach speech at Ivy Tech.

Oh my gosh. Well, Ivy Tech's blowing up. That's an incredible institution. What's going on there? Let's just hit on that real quick. You're at und, which is also blowing up and doing some fantastic things. What's your sense on why Ivy Tech has been claiming such a growth and so much more attendance?

I think people are enrollment. I think people realize that you need a post secondary education. You need something. A high school diploma just isn't going to cut it anymore. Now doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a four year degree or an associate's degree. It could be a certificate or something like something along those lines. And so I think Ivy Tech does a really good job. Basically, we have this debate in this country about free college. Ivy Tech is practically free to the students.

Right.

So because you can get your tuition waived, you can also get your books pretty much taken care of as well. So I think Ivy Tech has a really good program. I'm happy. I've been teaching it for almost 20 years now.

Wow. So I mean, you saw it from what it was to what it is. To me, it's just night and day and it's kind of phenomenal. Let's go back to your attitude coaches and your attitude influences and you as A child. I always believe that attitude doesn't skip a generation, but it can be found in the generation even before your parents. And I'm wondering if you knew your grandparents ever, if you knew their story, who were they and what influence did the grandparents have on your attitude?

I knew my grandmother relatively well. My grandfather, he died when I was a little kid. My other grandparents, they passed away as I was in the three to five years old. So I didn't get to know them as much as humanly possible. However, my grandmother, she drank whiskey and smoked cigars and would curse like a sailor. So that I loved about that woman.

So I know you like to smoke a cigar and I know you don't mind hitting a whiskey as well.

I think I got that from her.

That's good. And so what was, where did she come from and what was her story? Did she work or did she kind of raise a family or was there anything besides her smoking cigars and drinking whiskey that stuck with you?

She grew up in Champaign, Illinois.

I see.

And worked at the University of Illinois in the food service, catering. Oh, that. I remember my parents telling me now exactly what she did, that I have no idea. But she had four children. My mom had one sister, two brothers. My uncle's the only surviving one now because all my mom and uncle and uncles have passed away and moved on. But no, they, it was, you know, typical 1950s family, family, central Indiana with all the issues, all the good stuff and some of the not so good stuff that came along with all that.

Right, sure, I get that. So let's go back to you driving three hours. It's like I walked in the snow two miles to snow up both ways.

And there was no, and there was no light.

What, what do you think drove you to do that? And, and why wouldn't you just go to law school locally?

There was no law school locally in Springfield, Illinois at the time. I mean, there was one over on the University of Illinois. Yes, but they didn't have a part time program.

I see.

Because originally I was going to go full time and just get my law degree done. But my boss, who was the attorney general at the time, like, once you stick around, go part time, we'll work, we'll adjust your schedule. Just tell your boss I said, it's okay. Whatever you need to do, you can get it right, get it done.

And so that's what happened.

Yep.

And did you ever find yourself saying, I don't think I want to do this, or did you ever have doubt that you said, I Think this is too hard? I'm not going to make this happen. And if you did, how did you reprogram yourself?

Not really hard, but just sort of, like really got to go to school today.

You did that for three years?

Three and a half years.

That is crazy.

Three, four nights a week now.

Did you play sports as a young man?

Didn't play sports.

Studied all the time?

Pretty much, yeah. My brother's. My brother's got all the athletic ability. I just got the brains and the.

Good looks because David played football, if I remember. And so how many brothers you got?

Four brothers. Seven older sisters.

Oh, my gosh. So you are one of 12?

Yes. All right.

And what number are you?

I am number one of his, his, hers, and ours.

I see.

I am technically number eight of ours, but number one of my mom and dad.

Oh, my gosh. So what was that like? Did you ever have all 12?

No.

Was that. That was a move a mo.

My sisters always kind of live with their other custodial parent. We always lived at home.

Okay.

Because we had a. We have. We have a big house in Chicago, but it wasn't big back then.

Right.

All those people there. Yeah.

And then one bathroom. So your four brothers, are they all, like full biological brothers?

Yeah, all biological. All younger than me.

I like it. And so did you beat up on them or what was the relationship there?

I was in charge.

And what did your younger brothers, even through today, teach you, if anything?

Nothing.

Not at all.

Not a thing. Well, I know better than that. I take. I take that back. My brother's got all the mechanical ability. I cannot fix a thing.

I see.

And I do not apologize for it.

All right?

The most I can do is take a hammer and a nail and put my picture up on the wall.

All right?

But that's about it. But all my. All my other brothers, they got all the. All the athletic and all the mechanical ability.

Now, did. What was your first job and what. What, before you were an attorney? I mean, I guess you're a student, but did you have a between there that taught you anything about attitude?

Yeah, my job out of college, I worked in the student school's computer lab.

Oh, okay.

Because I need a place to get my homework done.

And so you did it.

Yeah. And it was before the time. It was before the time that everybody had a laptop or a desktop. This is the late 80s, early 90s. So you have the computer lab to get your work done. It was interesting because I learned not to procrastinate because you got to get work Done and to get it done before it's due because if you're waiting on the last minute, it's going to be too late.

All right, I want to go into the difference between teaching now, because you've been teaching for 20 years. Do you feel that students are different? Do you feel as people, are they different? Are students different? And have you changed on how you teach fundamentally?

Students are students.

Yeah.

Students today, in 2023 are students in 2003. Students in 1993 are students in 2080. In 1983.

Right.

And I kind of have to laugh and chuckle that we complain about young people today because all young people, all people complain about young people today is what people complain about. People in our age group, people in our parents age group. I mean, my grandfather, my great grandfather would complain about my grandfather's zoot suit.

Right.

You know, with, with the big wide brim hat and a long coat and the chain thing that he swirl around back in 1920 something.

Oh, yeah.

And so, and then my, then my father would complain about, you know, my uncle, my grandfather would complain about my dad, like, you're lazy, no work ethic, blah, blah. So people are always going to complain about the next generation. Sure, that's coming up. My thing is I've always treated my students like adults and basically say, look, guys, your grownups here not going to tell you what to do. I don't take attendance. I mean, your attendance is how you perform on the test. Because there are going to be stuff we can talk about in class.

You tell them that you're not taking attendance up front. That's good.

Yeah, I tell them. But I warn them, though that although I don't take attendance, there's going to be stuff we talk about in class that's not in the textbook. So it behooves you to be here.

Oh, yeah.

We reward students. We reward those who show up and who participate.

Tell me about being a on the beat reporter. So you did TV and radio, it sounds like. And number one, I'd love to know, like, who's the most famous person you've interviewed or got to meet and what did you learn from them and what is the attitude it takes to be somebody that's in that role of an interviewer?

I would say the most famous people I've ever interviewed was Barack Obama when he was a state senator.

Wow.

Because I covered the Illinois General Assembly. Assembly. And he was a state senator. And one time I was in his office, I asked him about something, he started to light up a cigarette because Back then, you could smoke in your offices. I kind of looked at him. He's like, is something wrong, Abdul? Like, yeah, you're kind of smoking a cigarette. I know you could smoke. And he's like, yeah, you can. Well, I wish you had a cigar. It's like, I do. Here you go. Wow. Okay. Thank you, Mr. State Senator. I appreciate that. Yeah.

But Barack Obama gave you a cigar.

Yep.

I'll be dar.

Did you smoke it later? Not in the building.

Right, right, right. Okay. So did you interview him?

Yeah, I can't remember. It was about some blood slates that he was kind of put this. Routine.

Okay, routine interview. Yeah. What do you think it takes to be a good interviewer?

Knowing how to listen and knowing how to listen. Knowing how to be flexible. And when I say listen, because you got to listen to the response that people give you. And even though you may have a list of prepared questions, somebody could bring something up like, hey, that's answering your question. I'm gonna go down that road and then kind of come back to that. To where you. Where you started.

Right.

So I say. I say being prepared but also being flexible is crucial. Being a good reporter.

Yeah, I like it. Did you have. As you can see, I don't have any canned questions here. I just go with it, and that's kind of the way I like to do it. People often say, hey, do you have canned questions? I'm like, no, no, no, no. We just go. We just converse.

Yeah, same here. Talk show hosts. Same thing.

There you go. And so you had your own talk show, right, on WIBC?

Yeah, WIBC radio for 10 years. Then before that another eight years. The WXNT radio 1430am There you go.

I think I had a little bit of a stint on there, too. So, I mean, when WIBC closed, when it shut down, did it break your heart like it did mine, or were you good?

I always realized in radio, there's always a day you can walk in, and one day you're playing, one day you're talking show host, next day you're Abdul the urban cowboy, because your format's been changed. So always there was possibility going in what.

And when you had your show at 1070, what did that focus on? Was it politics?

Yeah, mostly state local politics.

Yeah. And who was your toughest interview? Whether there or at XNT or even back in Illinois, did you ever have anybody that was tough on you, that was hard, that you never forget that taught you something.

Not so much tough as far as interviews go, but there were guests there were some guests that were more challenging to deal with than other guests.

Right.

Because people, like I said, it's learning how to listen. And people wouldn't necessarily listen. Ah, here's a good. The toughest guest I ever had was.

My mother on your show.

On my radio show. This was actually back in Springfield when we're talking about sort of breastfeeding in public. And my mom and I were talking on the phone that day, like, I can't believe women breastfeeding. Like this natural. Blah, blah, blah. Like, I'm going to be a guest on my radio show tomorrow. Like, sure. So I brought my mom on. Okay, guys, here we're talking about breastfeeding in public. So have a guest today. My mother, she breastfed all her children. And so we were having the discussion. I forgot I was interviewing my mother.

Oh.

And so I started treating her like a regular guest.

Oh, boy.

And she was like, abdul. I was like, blah, blah, blah, Abdul. Blah, blah, Abdul. Like, abdul, you need to listen. Yes, ma'. Am. And that shut everything down. And all my, all my buddies in the back were like, yes, good, boss. Thank you.

They got it.

Like, how can we do that? Like, give birth to me and almost die in the process. Thank you very much.

I love it. So tell me about the. I used to read a lot of your articles in the ibj and a lot of people would go, how in the world do you write that much so consistently? And I think you've probably gotten this before. And it took me 48 years to write a book. And everybody says they're going to write a book and everybody says they want to be a writer, but being a writer is very challenging. What's your thoughts? I don't think writers get a lot of credit, to be honest with you. I'd love to get your perspective on what's the attitude of a writer. How did you produce so much written content? And for any writer out there, or any wannabe writer out there, what's your advice about becoming a columnist, a journalist or a writer?

I say write about what you like and what you know. Yes. Because writing about what you don't know doesn't do any good. And write about what you don't like doesn't make any sense what whatsoever.

Right.

No, always, always, always keep, keep eye open. Keep an eye open for ideas. There used to be. I kept a notepad by my bed in case I got an idea, I wrote it down. Now just keep my telephone and do a text message or talk into it. Sure. So you always, always looking out for different things to write about, different things to talk about.

Yes.

And things that are interesting. For example, one time my wife and I, we were in a Chinese restaurant and we got into an argument over whether we should tip because they. Because it's all basically a buffet and they just bring you like a new plate, but that's all they do. So my wife and I, we got into a debate discussion over whether you should tip in a Chinese restaurant. And that took like a whole three hours on the radio show. Okay. Because it was. Because it was interesting and everybody had an opinion. Yeah.

Yes. But what about the craft of writing? Did you sit down and write all those articles or were they transcribed from a radio show and you morphed it into an article?

No, I wrote everything. Now what I would do is I'll take a radio show topic. Okay, I want to go into this a little bit more detail now. Use that as a column.

I see.

So everything kind of sort of interjected and sort of hooked together.

And so when you talk about all the things you've written, did you ever have an award winning article or did you have a article or a column that got national press that. That was changing?

Yeah. My blog, Indie Politics Indiana Barrister, has gotten a couple awards from the Washington Post and also I also got a couple awards from the Society for Professional Journalists of Indiana.

Cool. And what were those articles about?

I can't remember to save my life.

You have absolutely no idea.

I can't remember to save my life right now.

Which is okay. That's cool.

But they were good, though. I know that.

Obviously they were. You wouldn't have won anything. So when we talk about writing and doing a show on what you like, obviously politics is something that you like. Who would you say was your favorite politician that you've, I guess, followed?

Mitch Daniels and Greg Ballard.

Both of them and both recently. Yeah, prior to Mitch and Mitch and Greg did a lot of great stuff. Was there somebody prior to them that you really like to follow?

There was a guy named Jim Bryant. He was the former Illinois Attorney General because he was a really good guy, really sharp. He was kind of like my dad.

Right. And so you like them? Tell me. And I'm guessing you probably got to know Mitch a little bit through what you did, and Greg Ballard as well. Give me their attitudes as it related to politics or just their attitudes in general.

Always positive and always trying to move the city and state forward and not getting stuck on divisive social issue stuff, which I really respect. With Mitch Daniels and with Greg Ballard, it's like, hey, what's this got to do with fixing the roads or fixing the sewers or replacing sidewalks? Nothing. So why are we talking about it? I was like, thank you, Mr. Mayor, I appreciate that.

Right. And so as you embark on this new thing called politics. Right. Have you ever been an elected official before?

Never been an elected official, work for elected officials, but never been elected official.

And I'm guessing you work for Greg and for Mitch.

No, didn't work for either one. Just worked for Jim Ryan.

Okay. Back in Illinois. What is your philosophy? What is your attitude now going between. Well, I guess you got one year to ramp up, right? Is that right? Yeah, May. You got one year to go before the primary?

Well, actually, no. The primary is in less than 60 days.

So the primary is hitting. Oh, that's right. We got the big.

And then May 2nd is the primary. Then November 2nd, 3rd or 4th is the general election of 23. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Well, there you go. See, I didn't know that. All right, so you got 60 days to go in for the primary. What's the, I guess the attitude or the slogan or the mission for you to communicate the next 60 days?

It's public safety, public works, and public trust. Those are our three key points. We gotta get crime under control in the city by being tough but also smart on crime because you can't lock everybody up. That's possible and also ridiculous and. And hit us the expensive. But I always say there's a difference between people we're mad at versus people we're afraid of. And if we treat them, if we act them, we deal with them accordingly. I think we can get our crime problem under control also with public, with public works, it is. We got to come up with creative ways to get our streets fixed because there's. What we're doing now isn't working. And one of the things that I've talked about doing is creating sort of. It's almost sort of creating a road tiff type district where you take money from, say, within. Say there's a gas station around the corner. We basically draw a mile square and we take one cent from either the gas tax or the sales tax on gasoline. Use that for roads in that area, for sidewalks in that area and for potholes in that area. So that way you have a dedicated source of funding within a mile of that gas station to take care of your roads, take care of your bridges, sewers, take care of. Now, granted, now we can debate whether it's going to be a tax increase or whether somebody from the state. We can have that debate discussion, but I think it's a good debate discussion to have. But we need to come with creative ways to fix and solve our city's issues, our city's problems, and with public trust. Just trust the government to leave you alone. There's a novel concept.

Yes.

Leave you alone.

Right.

I love that. Just let you live your life.

So public safety, definitely a hotbed. Hot flash. Easy.

Easy.

Way to get pulled in several directions on that. What's your strategy on and what's your message? Right. I mean, we have a lot of angst between the public and the police. What's your thought on how to heal that divide? What's the conversation need to be?

Well, first of all, all that defund the police nonsense, that's not gonna happen. Yeah, no, that's not gonna.

No, no, that's, that's not gonna happen.

That's not gonna happen with you. Right. So anybody think about defund the police? Forget about it. It's not happening here. When we go talk to one of the, one of the other candidates, I think with, with building, with building trust, it's about building relationships and it's making sure that police are out of the vehicles, talking to people on a regular basis. But also neighborhood folks knowing, hey, you know what, we have a responsibility as well too. Right. Because I argue public safety is a right. You have a right to be safe in your home.

Sure.

People like your parents. My parents, well, both my parents are gone, but shouldn't have to be afraid to leave their house because they're worried that some knucklehead's gonna fire a gun or shoot at them or something. Or someone shouldn't be afraid to set their eight year old down in the living room to play video game and worry about a bullet coming through. My thing is, if bad guys want to take each other out, go ahead, fine. But leave innocent people alone.

Right. So when it comes down to messaging, like the other side, you know, and I think this happens in many local markets where, I mean, we're leaning D. Obviously, in Indianapolis, there is a path to victory that we've spoken about. How do you get Democrats to buy into you?

You talk to independents and thoughtful Democrats who are also just tired of the city of Indianapolis and how things are going right now. I argue that there are 20% of the voting population who always vote Democratic, another 20% who always vote Republican. Those are the extremes on both sides. Okay, fine, whatever. They need to go for the middle. And like we said before we got on the air only 24% of people think that. When we polled back in December of last year, only 24% of the public thinks the city's on the right track. Only a third think the mayor should go for a third term, and only 40% say they'd vote for him in a Democratic primary. So that tells me, along with crime as well as with property tax bills that are coming, that there are some vulnerabilities out there and there's a path to victory. It's not a big path, but I jokingly say, ah, here's the example I use. When Greg Ballard decided to run for mayor back in 2007, he called me after I got off the radio at WXT radio. I was like, hey, Dooley, you got time for lunch today? It's like, not time for lunch today, but I can meet you for breakfast tomorrow. So we just met the panera bread in 86 and ditch road. It's like, well, Dolan, think about running for mayor. I was like, of what? Indianapolis, Indiana? Like, yeah, but Bart Peterson is mayor. Yeah. Bart Peterson got $3 million in the bank. Yeah. And 60% will be a soft approval rating. Yeah. So what do you think? Like, well, it's not impossible. I mean, anything can happen. Like, let me tell you this, Greg. You ever see Star Wars? Like, yeah. You know that scene at the end of the movie when Luke Skywalker's fighting down the Death Star Canyon? Yeah. And Darth Vader and the two TIE fighters are chasing about to hit him, and Han Solo comes out and hits the TIE fighter. Yeah. Well, you're Luke Skywalker. And Han Solo took the money and left to go to Jabba the Go Pay Jabba the Hutt.

Right.

So it's just you. So you got one shot, so you better make it count. And he got it twice.

Well, and I think as I remember it, that's when the property tax system went into total spiral. And I told you, oh, my gosh. Who was it before? Who was before Bart, Was it. It wasn't Goldsmith, was it?

No, Steve Goldsmith was before Peterson.

So it was Goldsmith. Yeah, it was Steve Goldsmith. My daughters were. We were down at the Athenaeum. They were doing gymnastics. I said, steve, whatever you do, make sure property taxes are under control. And then, boom, that thing hit and it. Well, I guess it hit under Peterson, but property taxes are so important. But now with what happened in the real estate market, which I know very well, the prices are up and the 1% cap is going to hurt people, and it's going to be interesting. What's the solution there on property taxes, if any part of it is we.

Have a market driven system. And so when the market is hot, the prices go up and when the market goes down, the prices go down. I think probably what we need to do is maybe look at putting a cap on assessments, like maybe 10% for like an owner occupied home, something along those lines. So people don't have to worry about losing their home because they can't afford to pay taxes. Because unfortunately you end up in a situation like that, you only get two types of people left in your city. The people can afford to stay and the people who can't afford to leave.

Yes.

And that's not good for anybody. Just ask Chicago and Detroit.

Which brings me to another issue. I just drove by and I won't mention what part of town. I just looked at 241 apartment units that are completely trashed. And you talk about poverty. So I guess I'm going to give you three questions. Hopefully you can remember them all. Number one, the 3% commercial tax rate is killing building and small business owners in property tax. People that want to actually buy their own building, run their business out of it. I'm sure a lot of Republicans voted for it because it was about the homeowners. Very, very tough to run a business and own your own building with 3%, not easy to do at all. But what about when you look at flipping neighborhoods, turning neighborhoods, reinvesting. What's your thoughts, the best way to go about that?

I have an issue, not so much with out of town people buying Indianapolis property because it's property, you can do whatever you want with it. What I do have an issue with is when folks buy the property and don't keep it up. And then it takes, then we got to go track them down, find them, then go through all the, all the process to get the home in repair. It's probably getting in trouble with some of my real estate friends. But I really do think what we ought to do, particularly for absentee out of state landlords, is spice up and beef up our eminent domain procedures. Because you can't. An abandoned property only hurts the neighborhood and all the other homes around it. So why would we want to, why would one live next door to an abandoned home?

Well, I agree. I mean the thought is how do you bring neighborhoods back? How do you bring, you know, how do you help people that are in poverty? I mean, I believe one of your three missions were people, what's your feel on Indianapolis poverty, Indianapolis homelessness, and what do you think is an intelligent way to help.

One way to help people get out of poverty is give them the tools that they need to escape poverty. The Brookings Institute does a story, and the story pops up every year. If you finish school, wait until you get married to have children and get a job, your chance of being in poverty drop like 80%. It's not a hard formula. We just need to drill that formula into the heads of our younger people. Like, hey, here's why you need a degree or certificate or something. Here's why you need to wait till you're married to have children. I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your reproductive organs. I'm not that kind of person. But just tell you from a practical perspective, this is probably an easier thing for you to do. And there are jobs out there that are. Jobs are plentiful. We just don't have the skill set to get the jobs. So part of what I did, and this kind of ties to my public safety platform, is if you are on probation and you're a non violent offender, here's what we're going to do. Instead of sending you to jail, what we're going to do is we're going to send you to school. We're going to send you Ivy Tech because, number one is cheaper. Because it's funny, because my wife asked me like, honey, you're giving people free.

I love it.

My wife's like, honey, giving people a free education to Bricklaw, like, no, sweet. Not at all. Because remember when you went to University of Indianapolis, if you missed school, you just missed school. If these guys miss school, they violate their probation, they're going to jail.

Yeah.

So FYI on that, and then to me, once you get your degree, then we expunge your record.

That's great. I think the smarter public that we can have, the better off we are all going to be. I mean, there's no doubt about it.

And the city's always going to have a certain amount of issues. I mean, going to have a certain amount of crime, certain amount of road issues, because that's life in the city. Yeah. I mean, I chose to live in the city because I like city life. My friends chose living in the suburbs, other friends who live in the country, because we all have our different preferences, which is fine. But I do think that Indianapolis can do much better than it's doing right now.

What's the biggest hurdle you're gonna face to become the next mayor of Indianapolis?

Running as a Republican, Indianapolis leans Democratic. So you always got that 60, 40 sort of split.

Yes.

But I do think that if we get our message out, because you don't need to raise as much money as the mayor. You just got to raise enough money to be competitive. And if anybody doesn't think the little guy can beat the big guy, remind you, the Americans fighting the British soldiers during the Revolutionary War and the Viet cong fighting the U.S. army back in the 1960s. I mean, these are the two most powerful armies on the face of the planet and guys hanging out in trees and jungles, basically.

I like it.

Beat them. So it's not him. And if you. Oh, by the way, if you think money will solve all your issues, then I remind you to look at Willie Wilson, who ran for mayor of Chicago, who was a millionaire, who came in fifth place.

Yeah. What'd you think of Mayor Lightfoot?

Actually, I kind of liked her.

Did you?

She reminded me of my mother. Just sort of. No nonsense, doing her thing. Yeah, but that was a bit of a problem in Chicago because you got to do the politics to go along with.

That's right. You got to pay to play. What was the toughest thing that you've ever had to overcome in your life?

I would say moving to Europe was tough. Yeah. Because I was just turned 17 years old, just graduated from high school. We were there for two weeks, and it was time for me to go to college. And so my dad gave me two suitcases, an even heavier typewriter, put me on a train, gave me 200 marks, like, son, I love you, but I got to take care of your mom and your brother, so call me when you get there. Wow.

So you went to Europe alone?

No, no, no. We were all in Europe together.

Oh, okay.

We were in Kaisershaden, Germany, which is, like, the southwest portion of Germany. I went to college in Munich, which is, like, the southeast corner.

Yeah.

It's like, basically going from Evansville to.

So you knew no one. You're in Germany and you had to survive.

Yep.

How did you survive?

I had no choice. I had to.

Right. Did you have a strategy, or did you just have the right attitude?

Just do it.

Did you learn German?

I learned enough to not get ripped off by a cab driver.

Okay, well, that's good.

But ironically, I took three years of French in high school before moving to Germany.

Right.

So.

What'S the biggest challenge Indianapolis faces as a city right now?

Like I said, part of it's crime, part of it's just sort of a general malaise. It just seems to be over the city these days, kind of Go into your attitude.

We're a status quo.

Not so much even status quo. People just are like, eh, whatever. It's like, no, you should be happy about where you live, where you live. You should be excited about where you live and you want your kids to of where you live as well. So I think to me it's just sort of people just need hope.

Right.

And just to feel better about where they are and where they, where they live and their station line.

So if you get elected and you look at yourself or you look at our city in four years, what does it look like to you? What would be measurables that you look back and go, oh my God, I can't believe we did it.

Well, if I get elected, the first thing I'm gonna do is ask for a recount. That's the first order of businesses. Are you guys sure about this? Are you sure this is.

I'm sure it's gonna get asked for anyway.

Are you sure this is the right thing to do? Because my wife wants to make sure we got one too, which my wife has been awesome at all this.

Well, you need that.

She has not been a fan of politics per se, but she gives me my space to do whatever ideas I need to do and that I love her to death and appreciate her. I would say just the first four years just to get things back on track. That's where they were before the pandemic, before the George Floyd riots and before just crime got out of control and just sort of get things back to normal. Normally it'd be the first four years and the second four years, try to do the next big thing.

And how do you plan to cooperate and or influence the heavily loaded city council that you're going to be dealing with?

See gentlemen, we're all here for the city.

Right?

That simple. Argue there's no Republican or Democrat way to run a city. Either you know what you're doing or you don't. And so Vapos and I, the city council president, we have a really good relationship. We've known each other for years. And so we said, hey, Vop. Like, no, I'm mayor, your city council president. Let's go like do what Ronald Reagan and Tip o' Neill used to do. Let's go in the back, have a beer, have a cigar, have dinner. Let's go talk about the city's issues. Let's get this all worked out.

Yeah. So you're going to come with open arms and saying let's make that happen.

Yep. But I also remind people I am from Chicago, so don't screw with me.

Right. I like it. Now, one thing that we always do when we end these interviews is we always call it knowledge through the decades. So we like to walk you through your life and at each decade in your life and ask you the attitude lesson that you would have learned. So we always start with birth. Do you have children?

No, Once somebody's adopted.

Okay, I got you. Well, that's still, you know, that's still in. But when you think of birth or when you think of new life, what do you think the attitude lesson is? And it could be new life as a mayoral candidate. What's the attitude lesson there?

I think, like I said, I think early on, for both I say from ages, like 0 to like to graduate from high school, it was always just put a value on education, always learning and never stop learning.

Okay, that's fair enough. And certainly new life teaches you to learn is the bottom line. That's all you can do because you know nothing when you're born. Right? So let's go to 10. I'd love to know, where were you at 10? You're living in Chicago. Yeah, I'd love to know, was there an instant in your life, Was there a story in your life? Was there a bully in your Life that at 10 you said, you know what, I have an attitude lesson here. I'm gonna change something. What do you remember from being 10?

Actually, what I remember was actually literally being the smartest person in the room because I was already two grades ahead because I started school actually three years old.

I love it.

And when I was 12, I got invited to go to a sort of a meet and greet at Kenwood High School. It was on the north side of town.

Oh, my God.

They thought I was like 14, 15 years old. My dad's like, no, he's not. He's only 12. And no, he's not going to high school yet.

And so you were like, damn, I'm smart. Do you have a high iq? Were you tested? Is that one of the things?

I'm not sure. I'm just brilliant.

You don't want to know.

You're just straight up, just brilliant, incredibly good looking. I love it.

So then let's go to 20. Do you remember turning 20 or turning 21? Where were you and what do you think the lesson was? The attitude lesson was when you were 20 to 21, to be flexible.

Because between 20 and 21 is when I left Germany to come back to the United States to finish school. So I had A whole different set of culture shock going on then at a. Like I said, a different school, you know, different major, different friends. And so I learned to be patient and just go with. Just roll with the flow.

Yeah, cool, cool. And then do you remember turning 30?

Yep.

And what were you doing at 30? And what was your attitude lesson at 30?

Is this that kind of podcast? Yeah. What it was doing at 30 years old. I'd rather. I'd rather not say. Rather. I'd rather exercise my Fifth Amendment rights.

And that's okay. I'm just asking if you remember what your attitude lesson was. Did you?

That's when I learned.

Say something to yourself and go, wow. You know, what did you learn?

I learned that Red Bull and vodka doesn't mix very well.

I love it. Right. It keeps you up way too late.

Yes, it does. And it drags you down like stimulant antidepressant. So what am I drinking this for? It does absolutely nothing for me.

Well, that's when it was all cool. Oh, yeah, right.

I'm guessing you're 40, just turned 53.

All right, so you and me are the same age, so that's good. I want to know what got married at 40. You got married at 40. Now tell me real quick. So you've been married for 13 years. That's cool. So the attitude less than at 40 would be what then?

Yes, dear. No, dear. And I'm sorry, what was I thinking, dear.

I think you're right. Tell me more.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's. That's what I learned at 40 years old. Actually. Actually, no, it was interesting because having been single all my entire life.

Yeah.

It was no different kind of bringing a new person on board. It was. It was adjustment for me and my. Me and my wife at the time. And once I were in Chicago visiting my parents, and my wife wanted to go to downtown. I was like, you want to go downtown?

For what?

Like, we go look around. Like, sweetie, nobody goes downtown Chicago just to walk around. You just. You go to take your business and you leave. You don't. Unless you're a tourist.

Yes.

He's like, I want to go downtown. So we got into an argument, and my dad was like, son, let me tell you something. Before you get into arguing with that pretty little wife of yours, ask yourself this question. Is this really the hill you want to die on today?

Right.

And if it's not, then you just need to let it go.

I love it. You know, I'm not a big fan of Chicago. I think it's an extremely filthy town. What's your thoughts on cleanliness of the.

City, Indianapolis or Chicago?

Well, I mean, I think we know Chicago's dirty as hell. How do you keep a city clean? I'm like, what is it just too many people and too much too many buildings up there?

No, it's. No, it's just. It's a big city and you got a big city.

That's the way it is.

Big city. That's what you get. I think with here, it's not so much. Like I said, people need to feel better about the city of Indianapolis. And part of it is dealing with the crime, dealing with the roads. It's also just picking up paper and trash and addressing our homeless issue. And one of the things I'm actually exploring is what Eric Adams, the mayor of New York City, is doing with his homeless, which is. This is going to sound cruel, but it actually makes sense is involuntary civil commitments for people with serious mental health. Mental issues. Because what good is now? Please note, there's a difference between homeless and panhandlers. A big difference.

Yes.

The panhandlers you see shaking the cup on Monument Circle where Starbucks used to be, panhandlers are sleeping behind the garbage can in the alley, and the homeless sleeping behind garbage cans in alleys. And those people need our help. And so what I would like to do is, is maybe take some of these. Some of these industrial kind of abandoned buildings. Refurbish them.

Absolutely. Yeah.

And then use those for, like, low barrier entries for homeless. For the homeless. And that way you can also divvy it up for single men, homeless single female, homeless women, homeless single mothers. Because there are enough abandoned properties in and around.

Absolutely.

The city of Annapolis. So that's what I think we should look at doing to solve our homeless issue.

Yeah, Very good, Very good. Let's get to 50. Only three years ago, was there an attitude lesson. When you turned 50, what did you say to yourself? What were you thinking? What was the attitude lesson there like?

Wow, I made it to 50.

Holy crap, I can't believe I didn't think I'd make it.

Well, actually, it's not me. So all the people didn't think I'd make it to make it to 50? No, 50 is. 50 has been good. It's like being 30 all over again. And about every 10 years, I start a new venture, new occupation, new job thing.

Yes.

And so 40 was getting married. 30 was going to finishing law school. Now it's like, okay, now let's go run from here and see what happens.

I love it. I love it. Well, I'm excited to see what happens with you as we do on every podcast, Abdul. There are people that are walking on a beach. There's people that may be crying in a car. There's people that maybe just walked out and got fired and said, I need to see what's going on with this guy. And we just, like for you, you mentioned hope. Hope's a bit ambiguous. Many different definitions. But we just like to finish our podcast with our guests, giving those people who are listening to you, one on one, your message of hope for them, your message of encouragement for them, and then we're going to let you go.

When people ask, why am I writing? Is it because of crime? Yes. Is it because of the roads? Yes. Because of malaise? I said yes. But fundamentally, I'm writing for the people who are listening this podcast right now. You. You. You deserve. No, it's more than you deserve. You have a right to a safe city. You have a right to. To drive down the road and not worry about your tire breaking. Because another pothole that was there just a couple of months ago that the city fixed, and now it's back to being a pothole again. You just need to feel better about where you live. And I think if. If you go to my website, abdul4indy number4indy.com youm'll see a bunch of policy positions. You won't agree with everything, but, hey, if you got an idea, let me know. We'll be happy to change something if we think it makes sense. So, no, just go to Abdulfredy.com, check us out. And like I said, we're doing this for you. Thank you all very much. I appreciate Glenn. You have me on the show today.

All right, Abdul. That is Abdul Hakeem Shabazz. He is a very intelligent candidate for mayor. He is a good person. I know that he cares. He believes in hope. You go to abdul fourindy.com you're going to be able to see all of his positions and policy alignments. And so, Abdul, thank you so much for sharing your time with us. I know you're a busy guy. We're honored to have you on the Get Attitude podcast. You are now an alumni of the university of attitude podcast platform, and we'll be following you and rooting hard for you come November.

Didn't even need a baseball bat like my dad would to adjust my attitude. No. Thank you very much.

You got it, Abdul. Thanks so much.

Thank you, guys.

We will see you on the next get Attitude podcast.