The Attitude To Persevere In The Film Industry With Douglas Vermeeren

In a world full of turmoil, despair and darkness, you need to carry the light. Season three of the Get Attitude Podcast is where we will ignite your mind, your heart and your attitude. And welcome to the Get Attitude Podcast. I am Glenn Bill, your host, keynote speaker and author of the international best selling book the ABCs of Attitude. And I hope you're here to get some attitude. I'm going to tell you what, we have a guest that I very rarely get to have on this show. This guy is an actor, stunt performer, filmmaker, director. He is the author of three books and the Guerrilla Marketing series and one in the Dummies book series. He's also the creator of the personal development films, the Opus, the Gratitude Experiment and the treasure map. Enterprise magazine calls him Canada's Tony Robbins. Mr. Doug Vermeer is somebody that's going to take you into the movie set, into the film industry and talk to you about attitude and how it relates to your life. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to bring onto our show the get attitude podcast. Mr. Doug Vermeeren, thank you for having me today.

So here's the deal. I actually started as an actor. I started when I was seven and I didn't have any knowledge of personal development or what have you. So when I was seven, I started doing films actually up in Canada, where I live. And then, no kidding, through junior high and middle school and high school. I actually used to skip school so I could be on movie sets. And it was kind of crazy. I started doing stunt work also at that younger age as well, whenever I could get an opportunity to do it. And then the idea of personal development I actually fell into. While I was in college, somebody asked me to start doing some interviews with top achievers for a project that I was doing. And ultimately then I produced those personal development films and people asked me to speak about those things. But what's funny is all those accolades about speaking, that's actually a very small part of my life. And I really am, in the beginning was not known for that and even now not known for it. So it's kind of just a chapter that honestly, some good PR people wrote to make me sound like I was really important in personal development, but I really didn't spend much time there at all. But I did produce four of the top personal development films. So when movies like the Secret came out and they did really well, I had interviewed and I had met many of those people prior to doing those films. And obviously with the success of the Secret and the importance of that message, I decided to make a couple of other films. And my first one, the Opus, we included many of the gang from the Secret, and obviously people like the creators of Chicken Soup for the Soul, Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, and so forth. And the movie did so well. Random House picked it up. They did 20, 26 languages worldwide. Wow. Again, I can't even name the languages, let alone speak them all. That movie did so well that we continued on, and I did a movie called the Gratitude Experiment. And I brought people like Bob Proctor and John Gray, who did Men Are from Mars, and Mary Morrissey and others. We had such success with that that I came back and I did a movie called the Treasure Map, which also is a personal development film, but on the power of abundance. And then we just had one come at the beginning of the pandemic called How Thoughts Become Things. But it's funny, because once the pandemic kind of ended, I got back in front of the camera more as an actor, and that's what I'm doing now. It's just. It's. It's crazy times for the film business because if you can imagine, over the last, like, two years, everybody's been at home rather than in the theater, so they've watched everything on the streaming services, so now they're desperate to get more content. And, of course, everybody upgraded their home theaters, and so it's easier for them to watch films at home. So I've literally been off the hook. Like, just to give you an example, in the first part of my life, from the age of seven to probably, I don't know, mid-30s, I did close to about 20 or so movies.

Wow.

In this last year alone, we've done probably over 10. And this year already, I've done. And we're only. What? This is still March. I've done already three. And so it's the busiest time in the history of probably cinema because technology is accessible, the audiences are hungry and yearning, and the platforms for distribution are so accessible. So here's one quick thing. If you got somebody watching that wants to be a filmmaker, now is your time. For sure. Now is your time.

I love it. Well, our producer is a filmmaker, so, Jason, let's harness that and get our films going. My brother, I know I'm pretty wrapped up in TV right now. I thought I'd go into film a long time ago, but TV kind of sucked me. Sucked me in back in 2008. And I'm on my fourth TV show now, so maybe it'll be an Emmy before. Before an Oscar.

You Know, it's awesome that he says that too, because the funny thing is, is in the 1950s, people were thinking that TV was going to knock cinema out, it was going to be gone. And the reality is it's only been recently and a pandemic that it's made that viable. Because if you think about it now, the cinemas are empty, right? Like, it takes a big movie like Top Gun to even bring in the people for a couple of weeks, but everybody is watching stuff on tv. And the quality of TV shows has now risen to the cinematic level. If you look at things like Walking Dead and Breaking Bad and a lot of these other shows, the quality is. Is even surpassing what they're able to do on feature films. Like, you know, look at Mandalorian, for example. Some of the innovative things they're doing there. You can't even do that for those budgets as you used to. Right. So it's crazy.

So I think every American. Are you Canadian or American?

You know what's funny? I'm technically a dual citizen. I used to say bye, but that's not the right thing to say.

I'm with you. So, you know, but, you know, people are so enamored, you know, people don't, I don't think, even understand how attracted they are to celebrity.

Right.

What, what is your whole thought on celebrity? What do you think the attitude of celebrity is? And what is the attitude of this whole thing called the filmmaking business?

Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I've been around this business for such a long time. I've seen. I'm going to call them actors first. Actors who embrace the celebrity and they crave it, and that's their number one goal. And I will confess, there's moments I feel like I'm even doing that because it feels good to have your work recognized, appreciated and loved. But I think there's also a group of actors that they do it for the art, they do it for the passion, they do it for not just the challenge, but the ability to be and become. And I think that I'm more in that category. And what's funny is you've heard the saying that like attracts like.

Yes.

So I think the majority of the people that I associate with film and TV are doing it for the creative reasons. We've got stories to tell, we're excited when people enjoy them, of course, but really we've got things inside us. There's, you know, speaking about attitude, it's like, if I could, if I couldn't do this job, I would Be empty. Because I don't know, Like, I don't know how else I could get my freedom of expression out, who I want to be, how I want to be in these films. And it's maybe even a bit difficult to describe because the reality is, is I've got friends and family that are involved in other occupations, and I could never do what they do. And I say that as a kind thing. Like, honestly, they're very smart and clever people. I don't know if I'm that smart, because as an artist, we're very introverted in some ways. And even this idea of, like, right now, me talking and being extroverted, that's a bit of a performance, too. It's not really who we are in our private moments. And so it's one of these things where. How do we say, the artistic nature of it. It's like a painter, we do our best work in solitude and in our environment where we're doing this, like, in front of the camera with the crew, and that's who we are. But when the world enjoys it, we politely say thanks. That's really it. Right.

I love it. That's deep. And I think that can also, when I just listen to you, it's like there are people listening to this podcast right now that may not feel that sheer sense of fulfillment with what they do. And the one thing that comes through to me is you seem incredibly fulfilled and. And you are, like, in your quan, especially now with the number of movies that you're appearing in and the action that's going on in your life, I'd love. Yeah, go ahead.

You know, on that note, here's something also I think is interesting because you're talking about personal development. Well, one of my favorite books is 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. And you remember in that book that he says that private victories precede public victories? And the reality is, as a movie actor, a lot of people see the public life. So they see me on the red carpets. They see me at the premieres, they see me at fan expos and comic cons and all signing autographs. But that's not really how movies are made. The reality is the private moments when people don't see me by myself at home learning scripts, you know, playing out characters on my mind, discovering who these people are, doing the research. And then, of course, on a movie set, it's not red carpets, it's Porta Potties and food trucks. That's really what we're dealing with. Right. So there's that private side that the world really doesn't see. And I'm sure they're intrigued by it. And it is fun. And for those who are involved in movies, you know what I'm talking about. It is your family there. It's an addictive thing. It's. This is the other group that gets you. All these people. In film, there are people. And so we feel like we belong, whereas in. When we're in public, sometimes we feel like we don't fit at all. And no kidding. Even as a kid going to, like, acting classes and stuff in high school and that I was the drama nerd, nobody wanted to hang out with us drama nerds. But as soon as we. Now, like when I'm playing hitman and cops and doing stunts and hanging out of helicopters, now people think I'm cool. But what they don't see is that how that all came together with the food truck supporter parties.

Right? Yeah. Jokes on them. Jokes on them.

Maybe. Maybe.

And so really quick, what we always like to ask, you know, obviously attitude had a lot to do with you getting from where you were to where you are today. I'd love to know what is your definition of attitude and who were your first or your best attitude coaches?

Well, I think attitude is something that. Is something that we can decide and something that also evokes response. And so attitude is really just kind of a paradigm, really, of how we want to see the world. We get to choose also, we get to respond. Right. So I'm a firm believer that we do need to decide our attitude before the situation shows up. I think a lot of times, most of us, when we run into something bad, we let that external force dictate who we're going to become. And if you look at an industry like acting, and I'm sure that there's many other industries, I think right away, professional athletics is another one, very highly competitive. There are so many people that I run into every day. In fact, it's really funny. Yeah. I'll even show up at the airport. And as I'm crossing the border and he's asking for my passport, he says, well, why are you coming here? And I say, well, I'm working on a movie. The. The next question is always inevitably, oh, I've got a cousin that wants to be involved in movie. And. And he is all of a sudden trying to pitch me a family member. Right. Like, everybody wants to get their family or friends or somebody they know involved in movies. And if you think about that competitive nature of it, that number one Means that not everybody's gonna make it.

Yes.

Right. And so you've got to have the attitude that you want this more than anybody, but not just the attitude of what you want, but what you're willing to do. You've heard that idea that your why power comes before your willpower.

Yes.

And so unless you have this attitude of, this is who I am, not just I'd like to be, but no, this is who I am, we really don't have the strength or the fortitude to actually stay with it. And the other thing that's really tough that a lot of people don't recognize for everybody. Minute that I've spent on the red carpet, I've received at least a thousand rejections, right? Every single minute that I'm walking that red carpet, I can count at least a thousand rejections from either people saying, you're not good enough. We don't need your type. You don't look the right part, you don't have the right height, you're not the right sex, you're not the right ethnicity, you grow a mustache, whatever. Like, I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Right? People are looking for ways to eliminate in my industry, and it's still very politically correct to do that. So it's tough. Right?

And so I know you're getting ready to go audition for another major feature film, and, you know, I'm a big believer in the path to nose leads to the one. Yes. So, you know, I know that you haven't had the key glory role yet, but do you feel, man, I gotta be getting closer? The odds are I'm gonna walk in and they're go, that's him.

And you know what? Rarely do they walk in and say, that's him.

Oh, okay.

You walk in and they're like, he. Maybe, maybe. Let's. Let's see what we can do with him. Right? Because everybody's got their idea. And in fact, it's something that in film, I found that there's really no such thing as perfection. Everybody as a committee, does their best, and we create a project that we can. That we can be proud of. In fact, I don't know this was for certain, but someone once shared a quote with me attributed to Steven Spielberg, so said movies are never completed. They're just abandoned because at the end, we can only do so much. And then we've got to put it to the public. We've got to share it. Right? But you know what's interesting on that comment about auditioning for big roles And I'm not allowed to say, but there were two big, big, big ones that I auditioned for this year, and both from franchises that I have always loved as a kid. And it was a weird feeling. They haven't said no yet, but it was a weird feeling. Like, I love these guys. They're part of my childhood, they're part of my life. What if they say no?

Yeah, right.

Like, how would that feel? Something that you just loved forever and all of a sudden it's taken away from you, so you feel almost like you were born to do it, because it's literally part of how you. Why. Why even got into movies. And then all of a sudden, if that gets taken away, that's a weird feeling. So you've got to find a way to sort of separate yourself. And I love what Bryan Cranston kind of said when recently about auditioning. He said, your job isn't to go there, and. And you either get it or you don't kind of thing. And if you don't get it, your life is shattered. He goes, your job as an actor, they brought you in to see your interpretation, and if you can deliver your interpretation, you've been successful. Whatever happens from there is out of your control. Right. And I really like that idea. So when they bring me in to, you know, play, whether it's a cop or a gunslinger or a hitman or a secret agent or whatever it is, I have to deliver that. That's my job. And if they want to use that in their film, then obviously it's delightful. But it's, you know, it's beyond my control.

So what are, like, the two or three biggest films that you've appeared in?

Wow. I. Well, let me say this. The next one, it's always going to be the next one. I love it. I've had a lot of good experiences in a lot of films. And you know what? That's. That's also kind of a weird question, because some of the films that I've done that are really big, sometimes my part gets cut and the film, you know, we thought it was going to be a big deal, and then it comes out and it's like when it disappears and nobody says anything. But then there's sometimes films that, you know, I never expected anything to happen, and it's been extremely successful. But also there's been films that I've done that nobody cares about, but they were important to me. Like, one thing that I did, one that I just absolutely loved working on, is I worked on Open Range with Kevin Costner, Robert Ball, and Annette Benning. And on that show, I was a stunt double. And as one of Kevin Costner's gunslingers. And the actor that did that role primarily, he wasn't hardly ever there. So if you're watching the movie, it's 98% me.

Oh, my God.

And then a couple of things. It's him. Now, of course, I. I'm not being recognized the same way he was. But the blessing in that was I literally was there for four months, and I got to work with Kevin Costner and Robert Duvall every single day and Michael Jeter and a few others. And so it was just a massive learning experience. Another one that was a big learning experience for me is I produced a film in 2008, came out in 2008, called the Opus, and it's a period piece. It's a documentary with story on it. And of course, I went to film school like other people in, you know, in. In film. But the guy that I hired to be my camera guy had done work on Brokeback Mountain, Shanghai Noon, Shanghai Nights, Good Luck, Chuck, and a variety of others. And no kidding, even though I was the director, I learned more from that guy than almost anything I learned in film school. And so it was so funny. And maybe. I don't know, this is gonna be funny. So he would set up the lights and get everything ready, and then he'd call me over and say, take a look at this shot. What do you think? And no kidding, I would go over and I'd pretend to, like, tweak something really quick, and I put it right back where he had it, and I'd go, yeah, yeah, this looks good. And then I said, I just sit back and shut up. But the reality is, I don't know if I really deserve the credit that I got on that project, because literally, he carried me. And I think that that's maybe one of the big lessons, too. And this can go for attitude as well. I find that my attitude is better when I surround myself with good people, people that really know what they're doing. And then also my attitude is even better when I approach that set, understanding that I'm there as a learner first and foremost.

Cool.

Because the reality is there's so many amazing people that have. Have done so much more than I'll ever do. And if I can just be quiet and listen, it's going to elevate my game, but it's also going to give me kind of blessings that, you know, that I've never had. Actually, there was another film. I know we're going on all kinds of things. Tom Sizemore just recently passed away, as we know. And I did a show with Tom and he and I became really good friends on that set. But I'll never forget we came in to do this scene where I was a FBI kind of officer and I have just busted him and there's a suspicion of a mafia style murder that's there. And he looked at the script in the morning and I don't know if he was feeling it or whatever, but I had spent all this time memorizing it. But he looks at the script and he goes, yeah, not so much. And he kind of threw it away and said, can we improv this? Are you good to go? Like, would you be able to improv this with me? And I was like, yeah, I'm not going to say no to Tom Sizemore. Of course.

Right, right.

And so we did improv for the whole scenes, like almost the whole evening. We were like afternoon and evening we were improving this. And I learned so much from him about following cues and making it real and interactive and how to do improv without stepping on each other's lines and still having it coherent and following a storyline. And then of course, when they yell pat, how to pick it back up so we can give them something that will still work with what we've already got in the can. And it was such a neat experience. And one of the cool experiences I'll never forget about Tom, two of them really is after we had shot that, we went out onto this balcony area and we were by ourselves while they're setting up the next shots. And, you know, he congratulated me, but all of a sudden his phone rang and there was this on the phone, it said, bobby, I don't know who this is, but he puts on speaker and I hear this voice that's faintly recognizable. And he goes, how's the movie going? And you know, Tom gave his opinion. He goes, well, tell you what, I met this kid here. And he goes, what's your name again? And I go, doug. And he's like, man, this kid here, he can keep up with with me on this improv. And he's making this really fun for me. I'm loving it. He goes, pass me the phone. So I get the phone, the guy starts talking to me. And it turns out it was De Niro.

Oh my God.

Because remember they work together on Heat, right? I was like, oh my gosh. And all of a sudden, now I don't even know how to speak proper. Because this is Robert frickin De Niro. Right. So anyways, then, then a little while later we went to go do this, this Hitman movie. And my last text to Tom was, here's a picture from the film. This is what we're doing. What do you think? He's like, I like this. Count me and I'd love to do this. I said, sure, I'll send you a script. And he sent me back the words and capital letters. Great. And that was the last that I talked with Tom.

Oh, wow, that's, that's tough.

It was tough, but what an amazing dude. Like, seriously, he was really cool.

So obviously you've been around some exceptional people, some well known people, and you've given us some great stories of what they've meant to you and what they've taught you. I, I mean, you know, do you watch Yellowstone? And what was, what's Kevin Costner's attitude?

Well, you know what's funny is I think Yellowstone is a fantastic project and I'm also looking forward to. He's got another western that he's looking to do too. The reality is it's sometimes tough to watch things when you know the people. And the one blessing about Kevin Costner is as much time as I spent with him, I still forget that I'm watching an actor. He's that good. Right. And so I would say with an attitude, like, again, and I'm speaking on his behalf, so I might get this wrong.

Sure.

But I think the attitude that, that I get from him is it's all about the project.

Yeah.

100% about the project, not about him. No ego, no nothing. I'm going to be this character and I, and I'm not playing for the camera, I'm not playing for, you know, whatever accolades are there. I'm going to be this person. And for me, that's a really strong kind of attitude to have as an actor. Because when someone is playing for, how should we say, like, ulterior motives, it comes through.

Sure.

And I guess for lack of a better expression, I'm going to say I think Kevin Costner is very pure when he does things. And that's a blessing and it's a rare thing.

Yeah. Authenticity. Right. Is a big one.

I think authenticity is part of it. But even beyond that, it's almost like, because I guess when we say the word authenticity, what comes to mind is people say, be yourself, be yourself. Just that's being authentic. And I'm going to say that I think that there's certain actors, Kevin included, that they don't be themselves. They'd be above, like, so it's even. It's bigger than them.

Right.

They're giving us something that is. Is even more pure than bringing their best self to the game. Well, I'm not sure how to. I'm not even sure if I can do that as an actor yet. I hope one day I can.

I have a feeling you can. But do you have trouble watching yourself, like, the three movies that you did? Is it tough for you to watch the Opus or the treasure map or the gratitude experiment? You're like, oh, my God, that's fine, I can't watch it again.

Yes and no. The one thing that is certain, when you're involved in these projects, it's always frustrating because movies are made by committee, right? And so I may think I've given my best performance in something, and all of a sudden the editor feels different and he picks something that I didn't write, really want, and there it shows up. So that sometimes is a bit of a challenge. But the other thing is, I actually don't watch a lot of me. And the reason why is, like, when you're on the other side of the camera and you've got the full script, you've got a different point of view of what the story is and how it's going to play out. When you see it from the other side of the camera, sometimes you don't recognize it. Here's a funny story. So, no kidding. I was at a house party not too long ago with some friends, and they had the TV running in the background, just kind of ambient noise, right? And all of a sudden I looked over and there was an actor that I'd worked with, and I was like, hey, I work with that guy. So right away, my friends are like, oh, how is he? And I'm like, oh, he's totally awesome, the guy. He was like, incredible. I had such a good time with him. Also, this other actor walks on the screen. I'm like, I work with that guy, too. And like, oh, and him. And blah, blah, blah. And so we chatted about that for a while, and then all of a sudden, no kidding. I walked onto the screen.

Oh, my God.

And then they all were like, you knew? And I'm like, I seriously did not know this was a show that I was in. Wow. Sometimes seeing it from that perspective. And of course, when you're doing lots of shows, you just don't remember. But, yeah, I had no idea. And so I. My mom Kind of jokes. She says that I'm on TV more than I watch it.

Right, right, right.

I just, I don't watch a lot of my own work.

So you, since the age of 15. How old are you now? Like if you're allowed to tell, I mean, I understand. It's Hollywood.

Well, actors do this. This is how actors answer that. I do an age range from 35 to 45. Right. And if you grade my hair or whatever, then I can go whatever you want. You know what is funny about this though? If you were to Google, say my age or my height, one of the heights has me as high as 510 and the other has me as 5, 6.

Oh my.

I'm actually 8.

I like it.

Then if you google my age, they've got me, I think as young. I want to say it's 36, but I've also heard somebody who said I was 52. That's little bit insulting, but thank you. Yeah. So it just, I don't know. We'll keep the mystery out there just because it's kind of fun.

Well, but if you need a 52 year old feature film leading man, he's 52.

Hey, there you go. Right? Easy, right?

Did you ever do commercials?

You know what? I've done a couple of radio commercials way back in the day. I'm trying to remember if I did other commercials too. I, I actually was in a. A flyer for Walmart one time advertising a shirt. I think you can find that picture online too. It's pretty funny. It's like 12.95 for this kind of plaid looking shirt. I can't remember if I've done other commercials. I've just done so much over the years. I'll bet you I have. I just can't remember right. But I have been invited to do it again. In fact, I just had another company asked me to kind of do their menswear stuff. But I think that's mostly going to be printed. I'm not sure. There may be some commercials and. And then I just had another friend of mine who's a doctor who asked if I would do some kind of endorsement for him. But I don't know where that's gonna go or if I'm even gonna do it. So yeah, there's. It's crazy.

I think Jason found it.

Oh, did he find it?

Do you see it? Do you see it? Well, it says Jeff Vermeeren.

Oh, Jeff is my brother.

Oh, wow. You guys are like twinsies.

That's my brother.

He's an Artist, Right, Jeff, here's to you. Welcome to the Get Attitude podcast.

That's my baby brother. Yeah. So go buy some art, everyone. He's, like, literally taking the world by storm. The guy's awesome.

Have you ever. Well, yeah, let me go here. Have you ever interacted, acted with, met somebody where you kind of the bed and you're like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. Or did you ever feel, like, unprepared or, like, what's the worst audition or the worst gig you ever did look at? Looking for those fun stories.

How much time have you got? I've had lots of worst auditions. The Doug Marin attitude. Yeah, there's been a lot of those. But. But I will tell you one that I met. I became really good friends with him, but when I first met him, I was terrified. I was totally terrified. Now, here's the deal. Growing up, I've been the biggest James Bond fan that you've probably ever met. I've read all the books. I've had a chance to watch all the movies at least a dozen times. I could recite lines for you. And if you go online, you'll see there's some really interesting James Bond stuff in regards to me happening too. So you can steal those pictures, put them up later. But I happened to be walking along at an autographed show one time, and all of a sudden I saw Richard Keel there, who is Jaws in the James Bond movies. Remember? Seven and a half feet all.

Yes.

And literally that childhood boy, me, came out. I was like, oh, crap, I gotta hide. But I didn't want to hide because I wanted to go say hi. So I went over and Richard and I did a picture. And. And every time he's with someone, he does a picture, like, crushing their head. He did one of those with me, and we started chatting. We actually connected and became really good friends. Cool. So much so that no kidding. We wrote a book together and we became friends, like, really close, all the way up until his death in 2013. And I have to admit, like, I mean, it wasn't just that he was, you know, Jaws at seven and a half feet tall, that. That freaked me out. He was one of my childhood heroes. Yeah, right. He was somebody that I had totally admired. And so that. That was pretty awesome. And I really enjoyed my experiences with him as a friend. And we used to chat for hours on the phone, and he'd tell me all about the movies that he done and TV shows. Like, he was on Gilligan's island, the original Twilight Zone. Is at Alien to Serve Man. He was on I Dream of Genie. He was on Gunsmoke. He was on like, he was CannonBall Run Part 2 with Jackie Chan, Force 10 from Navarro and Harrison Ford. He was on Longest Yard with Burt Reynolds. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. People don't realize this guy, he had a resume that was 10 miles long. It was crazy.

So as a tribute to him, talk to us about his attitude.

What.

What made his attitude so beautiful to you? Or what was it about the way he dedicated himself to the way he thinks or the way he. He took.

So there's. There's Richard and someone else. I want to talk to you about attitude now that you're missing. So here's the deal with Richard. Just something interesting a lot of people don't know. When he was about 16, his family owned a furniture store, and it was in. In hall in California. And they put a freeway near there so people couldn't park for this furniture store anymore. And so the stress was so much that his dad had a heart attack and passed away when he was 16. Wow. Now, you got to remember, he was already well over 7ft at 16 years old. And so he and his mom, they lost their business. They didn't know what to do. The first job that he and his mom got, the two of them worked at a funeral home as selling burial plots. Can you imagine 16? Your dad just dies and you're selling burial plots. Yeah.

Insane.

And so he told me that this was a tough time in his life. It was just challenging. And you've got a choice. You can either, you know, roll over and die or step up and make something incredible happen. And he had a family member one time come and say, well, you should try movies like you could do like the Jolly Green Giant or something like that for whatever it is. And he was. He switched jobs and started loading Pepsi machines. And Red west, who was one of Elvis Presley's bodyguard, discovered him and said, listen, how do you, like, come in and bounce at this club? And so they did. And then they invited him to start, you know, doing some screen tests. And he. His first screen test was for the bad guy in a pilot called the Phantom. Remember the one that Billy Zane did, Right? Yeah, but it wasn't Billy Zane Show. This was long before Billy Zane did it. But. But yeah, they started inviting Richard to come out and get involved in film. And obviously it didn't take off right away. But just like with my journey perseverance. Now, I want to tell you about somebody Else, though.

Please do, please do. I love this. This is awesome. Thank you.

Yeah. Now here's the thing is I do a lot of fan expos where I go and I sign the autographs and stuff. And there was one fan expo where I met this really wonderful lady named Michelle Nichols. You probably know her as Uhura in Star Trek the Original Series.

Oh, yeah.

And when I met her, she was already confined to a wheelchair most of the time. So I pushed her wheelchair around and we sat at a table, we signed autographs and all this stuff and so we became really, really good friends. Now the thing that is awesome about Michelle, by the way, you can find this picture online too. Remember she did the first interracial kiss on television?

Oh, yeah.

I've got a picture of her kissing me and I, I love it. Now, as you know, she just died last summer, so this is, it's sad to me, but so get this. So I was talking to her and she said that when she was doing Star Trek, near the beginning of her contract, they were still in the big area of the civil Rights movement. And so there was a lot of prejudice, especially towards African Americans. And every day she would have wisecracks made towards her as not the communication officer on the Enterprise, but they were saying things like, you should be the maid on this ship, or you should be the slave, or you could be down rowing with the other slaves and all these kind of stupid remarks. And so there was days she would go home in tears, literally saying, I just, I don't want to do this Star Trek show anymore. This is stupid. This is. It hurt and people are mean and they're cruel. Now keep in mind it wasn't everybody, but there was enough there that it was frustrating. So she made a date and said, I'm going to give my notice. I'm not going to fulfill my agreement. I'm not going to do any of the other episodes. I'm out. And so she was going to come in and give everybody her notice. And so she told a couple family members and some friends that I'm quitting Star Trek. So it was great, but it's not enough. There's the picture right there. You got it right.

Attaboy, Jason.

Anyways, she, she was ready to quit. And the very next day she was going to go in. All of a sudden the phone rang at her house and she picked up the phone and this is how she tells me the story. She says there was a voice on the other end that simply said, michelle, you can't quit. And she's like, who the frick is this telling me my business? And again, the voice just simply said, michelle, you can't quit. She's like, who is this? Who is this? And the voice on the other end said, it's Martin Luther King, Jr. Whoa. I want you to know he said that you cannot quit because you will be an inspiration to not just black women everywhere, but all women. And in fact, you will change the perception of African Americans on television forever. And they will honor what you've done, and you will be a hero to them forever. Wow. And so, of course, she says to me, well, when Martin said that, I can't quit now, the interesting thing about her is not only did she not quit, but most people don't know this, that women came into the space program because of what Michelle did, and she was instrumental in getting them into that. And in fact, here's a story she told me once, too. She said she was also instrumental in and getting the school teacher on the challenger. And she'd always felt bad about that because we know what happened to the challenger. But obviously, that had nothing to do with her.

Right.

But she was such a courageous woman. She was such an inspiring woman that. No kidding. Sometimes I have to confess that when I'm having struggles as an actor, I think of some of my friends that just would not quit, wouldn't stop. Right. Because I can't do that either. I think sometimes our generation, we expect things to come a lot easier than they do, but the reality is, it comes back to that saying we've all heard that anything worth having is worth working for.

Sure, sure. So talking about rejection, talking about being down, it's hard. Like, you know, I'm a speaker, and people like, yes, I've always wanted to be a motivational speaker, you know, but they don't know what I have to do before I hit the stage. Right.

Well, we always want what we don't have. Right? Right. The grass is always greener somewhere else.

Right?

Right. If you saw the work and the blood and the tears that go into things, like, it's kind of funny. I've got, like, I do mixed martial arts, too, and I do jiu jitsu and all of these things, but I've got friends that are UFC fighters. That's way above what I am, what. What I'm doing.

Right.

And it's so crazy that they're telling me, also, these people say, oh, I want to go in the ring and be UFC guys. Like, really? Wait till you see what it takes. Like, the blood that's literal blood that's left on the mat.

Yeah.

And all the other things that go with it. You cannot do that as a part time job. Right. Like it must consume you. And I think that that's the same thing with, with any other success at a high level. There's too many people that kind of, what do they say, you can't be in the UFC or what? Too many people wear a UFC shirt when their body says kfc. Right. It's just like you just can't play both. And so you really need to be super committed at a high level regardless of what you're going to do. In fact, one of the things that I read this once, I thought this was very insightful. It said, mastery equals monopoly. So in other words, when you get so good at something that they can't pick or won't pick someone else because you are the best at what you do. Now, I wish and I hope that. And I'm willing to work to become the best in my field, but I don't know that I'm there yet. I like, every time I learn something, I recognize what I don't learn. By the way, here's something else about martial arts. I love this saying too. Somebody once asked a black belt, how long does it take for the average person to get a black belt? And his answer was, average people don't get black belts because we must become extraordinary. I think that that's the same with any field.

Yeah, right. Oh, man, that's.

You can't have an extraordinary life by doing average things.

I love that. I love that. Let me ask you this. I had asked you and I'm not sure we got. Now, in terms of your first attitude coach, who, what, what is your attitude? Number one, I'd love to. How would you classify your attitude? And then who would you consider to be your first attitude coach or the person that made that, that made you. You.

I know there's going to be maybe a trite answer, but. Okay, so first of my. First of all, my attitude, I think is really unstoppable. I deserve to be here. Good, right. And also the idea that if some other human has done it, I can figure it out. It may not be easy and that's fine. But I'm here to stay and I'm here to play. So let's do it.

I love it.

And the first attitude coach, probably my mom, love it. Now, let me tell you kind of why. Now, obviously throughout growing up, she had four boys and we were all, you know, very active and you know, it's boys, so there's a lot of energy there. But what's interesting where it all kind of comes full circle is once us boys got old enough to take care of ourselves and getting ready to leave home, she actually went back to school, became a dental assistant, started running marathons, started doing speed walking. She actually became a gold medalist for the worlds in speed walking. And then when she had an injury, she. She shifted again to another sport and all these things, like, it was just the lady's unstoppable. That's awesome. Right? And so I think that that's kind of where I got my belief in me.

Nice.

And I think, you know, my immediate family, for the most part, they've always been entirely supportive and told me I could do whatever I wanted. I never really had anybody in my immediate family tell me, no, you can't do that.

That's cool, right? What?

And I think that's importantly, I'm one.

Of four boys as well.

Oh, cool.

I'm the baby. How about you?

I'm the oldest and best looking.

Of course you are.

I don't know. You guys have a picture of my brother up there. Chances are he's the best looking. But you know what's funny? We all look so much alike that oftentimes people can't tell us apart in.

In one word or in five words. I'd love you to just tell me what all three of your brothers, their names, let's give them a little love and, and kind of. And kind of like what's their attitude or what? What attitude lesson has each one of those three taught you individually?

Okay, so if we're starting kind of the one just under me, I've got a brother that's 11 months younger than me and that's Jamie. And I'm gonna say Jamie, what's probably a thing he taught me. He's also a non stop kind of a guy, and he will just stay until the task is done. And yeah, I mean, the other thing I really like about Jamie, whether you like it or not, he's going to tell you the truth.

What's he. Whether you like it or not, what's his profession?

He actually is a financial planner. He actually owns a company that does that.

Wow. Cool. All right, so let's go to number three.

Number three is Randy. He's also financial planner. The two of those guys, they work together.

Oh, cool.

Randy is, is. Is a very quiet, almost introverted guy until you get to know him. Then he's crazy funny. But as the introverted guy. I noticed that he's always very sensitive of people's feelings. That's interesting. So he's. He's very emotionally connected to people, and he's just. He's a really, really good kind of networker. Like, no kidding. We'll walk down any old street you could, and he knows somebody on that street.

Yeah, that's right.

And. And he'll remember their name. He told, like, everything. Everything. How many kids they got when the birthday is. Everything. Right. He can tell you anything about it. And then my youngest brother, Jeff, he's creative, kind of like me, very entrepreneurial to his face. Gets two pictures here. Tell it to be funny because. Because Jeff and I are the most alike. And the two young, two middle brothers are the most, like, hilarious. Jeff is the guy that, like. No kidding. Remember I said I used to skip school?

Yeah.

So I would take Jeff to, like, the theme parks during, like, school. I pull him out of grade two, and I would take him, but I got in trouble for that. But we would do that, and we do that regularly. And so obviously, the baby of the family, you know, my parents always kind of just pampered him a little bit, and he got away with murder. But, yeah, I would do that all the time with. With him. It was really funny.

I always believe that there's so much to learn about attitude from our guests, but when we talk about their family or their parents, the lessons even get bigger. And one of the things we've. We always explore, and I'm not sure if this is in your case, but were you ever close to any one of the four of your grandparents? I'd love to know what they did. And what was the attitude lesson your grandparents taught you if you were fortunate enough to be with them?

I was actually close to all four of them. All four of them. Super, super close. And even as their final years came and they were in the senior centers, I would visit regularly. And yes, I have videos of us singing Christmas carols with all the seniors there and all kinds of other things. Maybe starting to. One of my grandpas, my very first movie set, he drove me there.

Wow.

And he took me to a lot of the different movie sets. He waited on set because I needed an adult with me. And so he was there for a lot. A lot of that. In fact. It's really funny. I did a little bit of recording of music. And that same grandpa also dropped me at all the radio stations to drop off music and all this stuff. So he took me around to do all that that same grandmother, like his wife, she kind of took care of any of the needs that I had. So, in other words, ultimately, like, again, I was the oldest grandson entirely for everybody. And so when I was a kid, she gave me a car, she'd always flip me money. She, you know, everything that I needed, my grandma took care of me. I was her number one. And it was really fun. So on the other side, that was my father's parents. Now my mom's side, they were also super fun in that way, but a different kind of fun. So my grandpa on that side used to be a professional wrestler.

Oh, my God.

If you've heard of WWE or wwf, there's a branch where, say, the Heart foundation came up called Stampede Wrestling.

Okay.

Where I'm from. Yeah. And so my grandpa was a wrestler in that, and later a referee, and he was in tight with the Hearts and all those kind of people. Yeah.

That's awesome.

So that was my grandpa. He was one of the original Stampede wrestlers. Way back in, I think it was maybe the 1960s, maybe even the 50s. Yeah. But anyway, really funny story. So I walked into this bar in Clearwater, Florida, and it was a restaurant, and it was all Hulk Hogan oriented. And it turned out it was Hulk Hogan's restaurant. And as I came in, this guy came up and he's, like, introducing himself to different patrons. My name is Jimmy the Hitman Hart. Now, I really didn't follow wrestling very much, but I was like, oh, yeah. My grandpa talked about the heart. He's like, who's your grandpa? And he knew my grandpa. So he sat at my table all night and told me stories about my grandpa and from Jimmy the Hitman Heart. Awesome.

I love it.

And so I think some of that performance flair. Yeah. Because of my grandpa. Yeah, right.

No doubt.

That was really kind of neat. And the other thing that I'll never forget, my grandpa was also there for a lot of the performance stuff I did, a lot of film stuff I did, and other things. And he always told me that no matter what, I'm gonna be somebody big. And I don't. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if it's gonna happen. I don't know. Whatever. But just the fact that he kept telling me that yes. Was really kind of neat. Yeah. And then my grandma on that side, his wife, very much the same thing. She was always super supportive and believed in me. The thing that's kind of funny is, okay, so I'm about five, eight. Well, she wasn't Even five feet tall, she's just a short, little. Like, she's my Jedi master grandma. Right. Love that she's like that little. And. And it was so fun because. Wow. I mean, how do you even describe this? Like, we would. When she. I just. Like, some of my fondest memories are when we were. When she got older and was in the senior center, we would literally sit on the edge of her bed, and she'd flip through pictures and tell me about my past, my family, who they were, and stories about where I came from. And that was kind of interesting, too, because, you know, I think sometimes we don't understand where we are or who we are until we understand where we came from.

Sure.

And she had just a mind that was an encyclopedia. She could tell me about ancestors I never knew existed.

Yeah.

And it was crazy.

Well, it's amazing those story. That's why we asked that on this show, because people invariably, my guests tear up or, you know, they're like, God, no, I know. I am who I am. They gave me my. So we're with Doug Vermeer, and he is a Hollywood actor. He is a filmmaker. He is just drop bombs, put us behind the scenes, put us on the stage or on the set. And it's helped us, I think, really identify the attitude that it takes or that it took him to continue to persevere. I know we haven't heard the last of you. If I didn't have another podcast on the other side, I'd be talking to you for another 30 minutes. But, Doug, we always end our podcast by asking you to talk directly to the people that are listening.

Right.

To the people that are walking on the beach, that are driving in the car, that are walking their dog listening to us to talk. I'd love you to just give them a message of hope, give them a message that they can take with them to go through the rest of this year. And they go, God darn that Doug Vermerian. I never. You've already given us some awesome lines. But just a quick message of hope for the ladies and gentlemen who are listening for us today.

Well, I think the biggest two things I'm going to say is, you already know in your heart what you're supposed to do and what you've been called to do. And so you need to listen to that. No matter what anybody else around you says, this is correct. And we always must listen to that intuition gut. Our biggest regrets will come from not listening to that. And so even if you don't hit the home run, that you think that's not the point. The point is you need to listen to this. This is destiny calling. The other thing I'm going to suggest that is just as important is we just need to learn how to be kind, because there's going to be more that comes to us through being kind to ourselves and others than any other gift that we can have. Right. Gratitude is a form of kindness. And the one thing that we learned when we were doing the movie, the gratitude experiment, is that gratitude expands everything it touches. So if you want to have better relationships, better abundance, better connection to self, better health, better anything, we begin to be grateful for what we are. We treat it kindly, and it expands, and we must. We must carry it out to other people. Because everything that you want is going to be achieved by a team. Even when you show up on stage and you win an award, the reality is, I never got this by myself. I didn't run the lights, I didn't run the scripts, I didn't run the camera, I didn't do the makeup or the costumes. Everything that gets recognized in life is a team effort. And so surround yourself with great people, treat them well, and be a good student and listener. You'll find that'll change everything.

Doug, I thank you for your kindness. I think we did some good today. I know our gaffers are going to love this episode. We can't wait to promote it. We'll be sending you all of our social assets and things for you to share if you so feel inclined. And we're just very, very grateful that you came to the Get Attitude podcast cast and you delivered some attitude for us. This is Glenn Bill with the Gap with the famous Doug Vermeeren, and we will see you on the next episode.