Further Discovery: Investment Dollars and Impact Initiatives for an Inclusive Economy

Oh, well, you know, I guess we're at 2:40. So for all of those joining us here in the breakout session, I want to welcome you. I'm Jennifer. She probably seen me a lot already, so you know who I am. And I'm joining to facilitate this further discovery and question from following on our earlier panel in part so that we can also hear from Ricky directly about kind of an introduction on the program that she works in on the small business investment company side and the work that you do and thoughts on how your work with SBA in the Office of Investment and Innovation is working to further an inclusive economy as well. So why don't we start with that, Ricky, since you didn't really get to I didn't do a great job introducing the full program, I wanted to get straight to the conversation.

So no, I'd be happy to. And I'll just preface it by saying that the SBIC program, the Small Business Investment Companies Program program, is undergoing a lot of really exciting changes. In fact, the most significant changes to regulation we've had in almost three decades that we've set out some policy or comment. So if anyone is interested, the more information and feedback we can get, the best better comment period, excuse me, is open until December. But the SBIC program, in short, is designed to improve and stimulate the flow of private equity capital and long term loan funds to of course, small business concerns that need sound financing of their business operations for their growth, expansion and modernization and in a way that it's not available in adequate, adequate supply. So what is an sbic? It's an investment fund. It's a privately owned and managed investment fund licensed and regulated by the sba. So in oii I am in the Office of Investment on the licensing team. So we have a unique opportunity to review all incoming license applications. And I love to say that the SBIC program and kind of going back to what Ana mentioned in the session, it's one of the best examples of a public private partnership because what we DO is provide 2 to 1 leverage and under the current rules and policies, 2 to 1 leverage up to $350 million on a family of funds to make investments in those small businesses. So yeah, I think it's really, it operates at zero subsidy to the taxpayer. And think of FedEx, Costco, Tesla, whole Foods, those are just some examples of portfolio companies that were invested through the use of an sbic, through the use of funds from an sbic. But one of the biggest challenges to the program and what the policy is intended to address is its investments made to minority women and veteran owned businesses. There is this really funky FY17 statistic that provides out of $57 billion of SBIC financing, only 1.1% or 23 million went to a minority veteran, a woman, minority or veteran owned business. So that's what these policy changes are really setting out to challenge that narrative. And the Biden Harris administration, the leadership of Administrator Isabela Casios Guzman, Raa, Bailey devries, they are doing it all the people in oii, they're really doing a lot of work to really make changes that are really important to those demographics.

Thanks so much, Ricky. And of course, this is open Q and A. So Deborah or Beverly, if either of you had questions and why you want to join in, feel free to chime in. Any of our audience members, please feel free to also put your questions into the chat for our panelists and otherwise I can start with a question. Okay, go ahead. Deborah.

Yeah, I have a question because one of the things that I think we need to really focus on for me is being a co creator and being committed to sustainable and generational wealth in urban communities. And it's interesting, Charles, and I was just in Oklahoma, not in Tulsa, but in Oklahoma this summer, heard about, you know, I've known about black Wall street and we've talked about it. And you know, when you talk about people about black Wall street, they say, well, yeah, but every time we do something, something else happens or they take it away. And I always say, you maybe can burn one down, but you can't burn a thousand down. So how do we begin to really shift that mindset, that scarcity mindset, to a more abundant mindset, to more growth mindset for people that look like me and be very serious about it? Because what I see is we have to really create the platforms. You know, we're looking at what's happening with Twitter. We need to create our Twitter. I mean, you know, so how do we get that mindset that we are resilient, we are the people that can do this? And also I'd like to see more programs for encore entrepreneurs like myself, because, you know, that was one of the comments I'll have. There's a lot about young, but you know, we have to cultivate our young, but we also have to reinvigorate our elders because that's what makes a sustainable community. So having said all that, I'd like to hear more because you know, when you're just starting in, you know, into a space and I'm so impressed with you, shiloh basically said, I just jumped in. You know, I didn't know it. You know, I think that's important. And first of all, for me, being a product of an hbcu, the first Chaney. I don't care what Lincoln says. Chaney is the first. But having been a product at hbcu, but then going on to the first technological university to give degrees like a Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, I would not have gotten there had I not gone to Cheyney. So I think we need to thread those things to show the brilliance, if you will. I always tell young people, lean into your brilliance. And so, you know, I know I'm saying a lot of things, but I just think that it's really important that we have these real conversations, particularly around wealth, because health is wealth, healthy neighborhood is a wealthy neighborhood, and we have to address what's really going on in our communities so that we can get out of this kind of scarcity mindset to more of a growth mindset. So how do we do that? That's a paradigm shift that we need to do.

Yeah, that's a really good point, but.

It was on my heart.

No, no, that's. That's something I'm running into. Being in Tulsa is running into that scarcity mindset. And for me, it's having individual conversations with people one at a time, and really, really talking about resilience. I think Shiloh mentioned the resilience on the panel, but black people are resilient people. And what people don't know about black Wall street is that after. After it was bombed and there was a race massacre, they built it back twice as. There was twice as many businesses when they rebuilt it twice as many. So they built it back better than it was before. And the traditional, you know, ways of disadvantaging black communities through redlining, through highways is kind of what was the downfall for the second time. But I like to talk about their resilience. I like to talk about the strength of the people and remind people that we're strong and that, like, we got no choice but to. To rebuild and to. To try again. And we're at, you know, things are by no means perfect, but we're getting, you know, we are making progress. And I think we're. If we don't focus on the opportunities to build generational wealth that is inherent within the startup and entrepreneurship community, then we will miss out. And so those are the conversations I'm having, and I'm trying to, you know, encourage people. It is, you know, disheartening when I hear like people are like, I don't want to pursue an idea because I'm distrusting of the community. So how do I develop that relationships? How do I build trust with the people I know and the networks that I can grant access to? So, yeah, so it's, I don't know, it's not a silver bullet, but it's, it's definitely a conversation to be had for sure.

Yeah.

And so let me just say this before I, before I move on about the resilience part. Black women are so tired of being resilient. Like sometimes we want to lay down and like take a rest. The election was won on the back of black women. And I'm not going to get all political, but I'm just saying that sometimes we get tired of fighting to fight. What I do want to say is that I think one thing that we don't know is our power. Right? We have a one trillion dollar spending power. I think it's more than that, but it's been noted to be $1 trillion. We can shut down any brand on any day if we decide we're no longer going to use that purchasing power. And so I think once we get to learn like that kind of power that we have, because we do spend, we are consumers, right? We're also creators, but we also consumers. I think once we get to understand what our power is, where I think we'll start to realize what kind of impact we have in this country. The other part of that is that there are such built in barriers for success. That's why we all have sort of. I've had a scarcity mindset while fundraising because I'm going, well, is that it? They bumped, they funded everybody. Like, am I not. There's so much money in the market, y', all, that everybody can get funded 100 times over and we will still have enough money in this country. And so I think once we learn that, yes, there is enough for all of us, I think we can begin to kind of get rid of that scarcity mindset. It does take some unwinding just based on who we are as a people and what we've kind of been through. And so there is some education just needs to be had around that. And to the last point about aging, if you got anything on my conversation about that, I'm an older person, I'm an older entrepreneur. I started.

You are a seasoned saint, whatever you.

Want to call me.

I am not a young baby.

Neither am I.

My point earlier was about young and impressionable. We've been through some things, so we've saw some things. And we can kind of, you know, we can see when things are being said and know how to move. Right. I'm saying young, impressionable entrepreneurs, sometimes they just don't know. But as far as us, it has been reported that most, most entrepreneurs start at 45, start their first company at 45. That's the average entrepreneur's age. It's not 22. And then most, some of the most successful entrepreneurs are women, women 50 and up. Because we. You're talking about resilience and knowing how to build something out of nothing. Women have been shown to do that. And so I want you to know that there is a whole group of us. Oh, where does she go out here? Who are of a generation who are building things, starting over, building businesses, all that sort of stuff. And so while ageism and sexism is a problem, I don't, in my opinion, I am not leaving out women of a certain age because I feel like we have so much to add. And so just know, Deborah, no one's been leaving women out, especially women of a certain age, because we have so much to add to this whole conversation.

Good. Thank you.

I think, Shaila, going back to the comment about. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Jennifer.

No, no, you were muted, so I was just. Go for it.

Sorry, just going back.

Oh, wait, now you're. I think there's just a slight lag. All right. I think you look good.

Am I muted?

Good.

Okay. Going back to, I think Anna's comment about utilizing the transformative power of the levers between us, the public private partnership. Shaila. And you say that you are a seasoned, or to use Deborah's comment, you're a seasoned saint. You have the experience, you know, and have the visibility into the up and coming entrepreneurs. And you've already built a track record. What am I saying? The policy changes that are coming from the SBIC program are catered to investors like you. So I encourage you to please look into the program. You may be a great fit in being able to access and leverage government resources to increase your bottom line for, of course, being small businesses, black and brown businesses.

Absolutely. And we, I don't know if you're talking about the SSBCI or sbc.

Sbic.

Yes. So that one I've not, but the other one we've heard a lot about because there's a focus on venture funds. So I guess I need to become more educated about the sbci.

Right.

Sbic.

Sbic. Because the SSBCI is actually going to be able to catalyze a lot of these venture funds and folks who are focused on on underrepresented entrepreneurs. And while again we talked earlier about how there are a lot of programs out there, those programs are going to come and go. And so where do we go next? After the corporates have made all of their promises and they're going to do this, where do we go next? And so I love the fact that now government, right, is playing a part in this whole innovation place because it is instrumental that we have the backing of the U.S. government. And so great. I would love to learn more about that particular program. I've not pursued it, but definitely looking forward to talking to our folks here in Georgia about the SSBCI funding that's coming.

And you know, I also want to open up the conversation of course for any of the panelists to ask questions of the audience. But there is a, well there's a comment in the chat and so maybe if you have some thoughts about this Josh Nickel Caddy mentions, you know, don't know how to start it, but maybe in an investment fund or investor group for small dollar investors might help in a lot of different communities that are trying to jumpstart entrepreneurialism. You know, some of his clients just need five to $10,000 to get something going. So you know, 10 to 20 investors at $500 who aren't planning to get anything back could help certain entrepreneurs a lot and create buy in in the community when people say, you know, that product there or even that Etsy store is something I funded and those bets are just too small the interest bankers or venture capital and you know, I think around the crowdfunding side of things and also when I forget the, you know, acronym of when they're starting to do the crowd fundraising for actual investments. But I know that there has been generally kind of more often people have been talking about greater success in these more alternative forms or like newer forms of fundraising. Yeah.

Yeah. So I'll go ahead and answer that. There are a couple of ways. There are plenty of angel groups around. You know, check your local, I don't want to say library because that sounds so old. Check your local network and I bet you you can find one. I'll tell you for Zane Access specifically what we have been trying to think of doing an angel fund since we started Zane Access mainly because people come through the program, they're not really ready for venture capital. There may not even be a venture backable business but it is a successful business. So how do we get angels because that is like, for some of us that friends and family around that we don't have. So how do we create these angels? I know for us, it has to start with education around what is an angel investment look like? Because people have to be able to take the risk of like, not getting the money back. And so a lot of, you know, early investors don't understand that kind of risk. They assume they're going to get some. And so most. You gotta educate folks first because we've been trying to do that. Even on the LP side, there are a lot of, especially people of color who have great jobs, say executives or directors who could become LPs and funds, but they don't have the education around it. And so I think that's kind of the first way before you throw someone in to say, hey, here's some angel opportunities. Create a group and then get educated around it and then find out where you want to put those dollars. Those dollars are so needed in so many different communities. Right. So not only the community. Charlton mentioned Goody Nation earlier, that's Joey Womack here in Atlanta. He has a community of entrepreneurs, primarily black entrepreneurs, that he works with. Right there is like, there's a fearless fund here. They work with entrepreneurs outside of. Most of us do something outside of the venture fund. We have some type of ESO where we're supporting entrepreneurs, those who can't get a significant venture check, but definitely deserve to get some form of capital to be able to grow and scale their business. So I would say I don't know where John is. I'm happy to connect with you to help you put those dollars to work, because I, again, I graduate at least 10 to 15 companies per year and all of those companies need some sort of backing to be able to get started. So, Charlton, I don't know if you have some other sort of advice around, around that.

So there's an organization that I'm a big fan of called Detroit Soup. And it's. It's basically, it's more of a community event where you come and you have dinner and you hear five people in your community pitch an idea. And part of the money that gets you into the event goes to them, and part of it goes to support the event. But I always love that idea of just the community coming together to support one another. And this idea that you might like. Three of those companies, only one will win the event. But what type of relationship can you build after that? Could there be a Kiva loan set up or however it continues to build. I just love that idea of a continuous kind of supporting network of people, like, coming together, because people have great ideas all the time. And so it's called Detroit Soup. I just looked it up. It's still running. And they do like a citywide one, and then they do one for a specific neighborhood so you can get to know the folks that are near you. So that was just an idea. Yeah.

That'S actually, it reminds me, I. Black Girl Ventures started that way. You know where I would go, you know, you go to, to the pitch events, but it was kind of like, you know, you can donate more or you pay for the ticket price and that's it. But I like the idea of also coming together around dinner. I just really like food. Yeah. Josh is in Nebraska.

Nice.

Well, and, you know, I'm, I guess what are some, what are some of the ways. You know, I think there's been a common theme of, of the need for trust building and relationship building.

And.

I'm curious if you think, you know, does it. If somebody just comes to cold calls you or reaches out to you on LinkedIn, you know, how. How do you start to think about whether, like, there's so many opportunities to connect and so when. What, what are some of the ways that that would, you know, cause you to say, like, okay, well, we need to have a meeting now, right? Or like, where, where does the urgency come from? Or the priority of, like, how.

How.

You kind of choose to spend your time? Because I'm sure you're gonna, you're gonna get a flood of LinkedIn requests from today.

So I say, for me, I have a focus, right? I promised my limited partners I was going to invest in certain types of founders in a certain region of the country and in technology. And so I'm gonna always do my fiduciary. Fiduciary duty and invest in those types of companies. So I'm very firm about that. I'll talk to anybody. Right? But in terms of a conversation that's going to lead down the road of us potentially investing, that conversation is an entirely different, you know, it's an entirely different process. What I, what I always try to tell entrepreneurs so they don't waste their time, research who you're reaching out to make sure these are the people you should be talking to. To. I'm not investing in crypto right now, so I can't help you. But maybe Charlton is, and you should be talking to Charlton instead of trying to find me and others. And so do your research to make sure you Talk, you're, you're looking at talking to the right type of investor. Scour the website, look at the companies that they've already invested in. If there is a similar investment, there is a high chance I'm not going to invest in a competing company and so know who I've already made investments in and look at the kind of sectors, right. Get a feel for the types of companies. I've had people who said, I've learned, I've listened to your podcast, like they've tried to get to know me before they've approached me. And I think that's great because you have a kind of insight on like how I approach things and that sort of stuff. And so it's an. And I love when, when founders, when I finally get a chance to talk to an entrepreneur that we're potentially investing in, they begin to interview me. What do you do? What are you basically what are you going to do for me once I take your money? How are you going to help me build and scale my company? Because it's a two, it's a two, it's two parties here. It's not just a one way relationship. I write you a check, you go away and build your company or I write a check and I'm all in your company. Right. It's just knowing what am I going to be able to do and how am I going to be able to help you as an entrepreneur. So interview the investor once you do get that conversation. But I just, I love bold entrepreneurs. Even if you're not, if I'm not investing and you be bold about it, like message me and make me respond to you in some sort of way. And even if it's a no, it could be a node for now, but it could be something interesting later to talk about.

Yeah, I would echo all everything you said, doing your research up front, really doing due diligence for yourself, right. That in and of itself shows, shows an investor, shows a potential new node on your network, that you're serious, that you're thorough. And so similar to Shila, I usually take most, most meetings, especially because my focus is in Tulsa. If you're a Tulsa founder, you're working on something, I'm gonna talk to you. And so generally I would say Lightship foundation, we of course make, are making investments through our accelerator program that has our own thesis. But at the end of the day we're also here to help the community and support the community. And so, you know, there is always a balance to make sure that I'm you know, not overrun. But I want to make sure that I, you know, have kind of an open door policy and can help folks out and give them, try to give them a nugget of advice. If I hear something in their pitch that I'm like maybe you should key on that and that can just help them move forward. And so that's kind of what I would say.

And just a reminder to everyone who's watching and not up here, please feel free to throw your questions and comments and in the chat and Q and A. But I wanted to talk, Ricky, maybe you can talk a little bit about, you know, from the federal perspective.

Right.

When and especially actually as it relates to the SSBCI program. So a number of states now are going to be creating new state venture funds. Like Cindy from the earlier panel mentioned that Hawaii Technology Development Corporation will be managing their state's SSBCI fund. If somebody is thinking about, you know, creating a new fund, why, what, what should they think about in terms of partnership through the small business investment company side of things?

What should they think about in terms of partnership with the SBIC side of things?

Yeah, like how do they know if this might, is this a, why might they want to consider it? And then if they want to consider it, how do they know what should they, what kind of diligence should they be doing to figure out if it's, it's the right fit for them?

Sure. It's an interesting question because leveraging the state programs with what we do here at the federal level, there are a lot of nuances. And so we always want to be sure, even as it relates to like CDFIs and other entities, that there aren't any overlapping or conflicting legalistic issues, if you will, or prohibitions that would not allow them to co invest or you know, mix funds. So that is a primary consideration. But thinking of it from a lens of how do you leverage to how do you leverage a state program with what the federal government is offering? The first of course is that legal check. But also looking at the thesis within so SBIcs, you can only invest in certain industries, right. So we don't do farming and they don't invest in farming. There are some other prohibited investments. So how can you use maybe that state program to offset some of the things that the federal, that the federal through the SBIC program doesn't do to really carry out whatever your business plan is? I think that's a consideration. I think something else to consider is who's your team? I'm thinking of the checks and balances that we go through as investment officers in in oii. When we're reviewing a new fund application, we're looking at the managers, how long have they been together? Are there any conflicting informations from the state requirements? Are there any differences in the two applications or requirements? Making sure it all makes sense, right? And I think that's what I'm actually getting to. But yes, I think it makes a lot of sense to be able to leverage as many opportunities as you can, making sure that you're not mixing apples with oranges, if you will, because it can be one of the biggest burdens, especially on a new fund or a fund manager, is compliance. There's a lot of heavy lifting that comes with making sure that you are in compliance and it can cost a lot of money. But for an entity, a fund manager, their general partnership, to hire those outside resources. So making sure that you're balancing your checkbook accordingly. But there's so many resources through the SBA, through the SBDCs, through if you just want to call me here, happy to see and talk through some of these nuances. Because there's no one size fits all. There's no one size fits all answer. But we're here to help each, you know, anybody that's looking to do the work. That's the biggest challenge, right? People wanting to do the work. We have the programs, the state level, they have the program. So I'm going to be here to support you. I hope that answers your questions.

Jennifer, I would like to ask. Oh, sorry, Jennifer.

No, please go ahead, Shaila.

I was going to ask because maybe they're the little, those of us who don't really understand what SBCI is and maybe can you give an overview of what, what that is and how you work with venture funds, even from the state level.

So it's a federal program?

Oh, it's a federal program. Okay.

It is. So they are private investment funds licensed. They're privately owned and managed investment funds licensed and regulated by the SBA. They used SBICs invest private capital and borrowed capital with essentially what is an SBA guarantee to make currently in the current program, long term debt or equity investments into qualifying small businesses, US small businesses specifically. I shared earlier that it's really one of the best examples of a successful public private partnership in that it provides 2 to 1 leverage. So for every $2 that a fund or every dollar that the fund brings in, the government provides up to 2. So 2 to 1, 3, up to $350 million on a family of funds. So you come in with 50 million, you get two tiers of leverage. It's $150 million fund at a low interest rate to you. And so the lowest you'll find.

Okay. Okay, thanks for that overview.

Yeah, I think I once heard it described and I will say I am not an investment officer or professional, so I'm still learning too. But what I and Ricky definitely check me on this. But somebody once described the SBIC program to me kind of like providing a fund a credit card because SBA is providing you basically like you can draw down on this credit to invest in a company. So you can invest $3 even though you've only raised $1 of some private money, but you've got $2 of public money. And so. And then we have to be paid back.

Right. Like all of our LPs.

Yeah. So think of it as like a revolver. I think that's a really good example. Jennifer. Think of it as a revolver that you could draw from. But under the current program you pay in semiannual payments. But that's catered more toward in the proposed changes that will change to be.

More.

Helpful to like investors and VCs with an accrual debenture.

Yeah. So in the, in the chat I put in the the links but I think it might have been right before you joined Shyla. But we were talking about there's. There are some proposed rule like pretty major changes being proposed to the program specifically to and expand access. And I think we didn't really talk about. And so Ricky maybe talking a little bit about also the interest in diversifying the fund managers themselves. Right. Because some of the rules around how the diligence is done before a fundamental gets approved can be a barrier.

Absolutely. So in terms of track record, you know, all the things Shiloh that you look to or Charlton when you're looking at to make an investment. We do the same thing from the perspective of an lp. Make sure that you have a reputable track record. But the proposed changes, they are many. And I shared that it's the most significant changes to the regulation had in almost three decades. So part of it is limiting the number of required fund managers. Right now the rules provide for at least two. And under the proposed policy changes, it's only one. Previously you had to have at least a year track record that has changed a bit. And I don't want to quote an exact number because I don't have it at the top. It's one of the changes. And Jennifer, she did post the article.

Okay.

The policy Changes, they're up for comment. So if there's anything in there that doesn't work and you think could be a challenge for minorities, women's veterans, please respond the comment until December 19th.

Okay. So I don't have the link.

Put.

The link to the Federal Register notice in specifically because the other piece of it is that, you know, we like, we the federal government can formally like we need to have a formal comment to be able to respond to. And so and by formal it just, it has to be submitted through, you know, reginfo.gov or whatever. But that's how also trying to take in the feedback because you know, I think our administrator mentioned right. Like one of our core things for sba, core value is being customer centric and actually listening to is the policy making going to actually work to do what we try to do. Yeah. And so yeah, I think hearing from actual fund managers about whether these structures and proposed changes are going to actually work for how you. Or if there are things that in it that might lead to issues. Right. That wouldn't realize unless you're operating.

Okay. Okay. I'm happy to take a look And.

I'd be remiss if I didn't say that the most significant changes is really again that accrual venture, but designed to attract venture and growth equity investors into the program specifically. So. Okay, you those in your network, please encourage them to take a look.

Yeah, I'll do that. I'm in a group of about 1200 women VCs from across the world, but a large portion here in the US And I'm definitely going to share it with them. We always talk about different changes that are happening in Congress. So I'll share that.

That'd be great. And we do have a question in the chat about whether anyone's heard of funding from banks being provided for showing detailed letters of intent from companies that will be building the manufacturing capabilities for a company.

So that's a hard one because there's a yes and a no. Right. And I'll just tell you from my perspective, I had a company, this was our very first cohort and they had got a letter of intent from Target. Right. But they had to fulfill that and they had no capital to fulfill it. And so they had to actually they came through the program, got educated and went out and raised that money for that letter of intent. A letter of intent is not, is not the same as an agreed contract at all. And so most of us are going to look at that like you need to get the contract signed the letter of intent is not like, it's not, not like the confirmation. And so it has happened several times now that I think about it. I think about another young woman who had a product that was Target, same thing, had a LOI from Target, and she had to go out. She had to actually take a, a very low interest, not from a bank, but from some of, there's organizations here in Atlanta. It's called Access to Capital for Entrepreneurs. They do very low interest loans for entrepreneurs. And so that's probably your best bet is to look for an organization like that versus a bank. The bank they don't understand probably, you know, the startup environment, how you need this to be able to get that. Whereas an organization like that, they totally understand. And that's what the cap. This is a cdfi. And that is exactly what the capital is for. Right. Is to be catalytic, help them, you know, fulfill orders, that sort of stuff. And so that's my opinion on that.

Charlton, I would, I would totally agree with you. And like you said, there are other capital opportunities. I think we work with CPG companies and for companies that are like online and they're connected online. I know Shopify. And there was a, an organization called ClearBank. I think they recently changed their name, but it was attached to your revenue so they could kind of have purview into your sales and stuff. So there are other, other organizations where you can kind of, they get creative with it. But I would agree, Lois. Aren't, aren't. Aren't the, aren't the agreed the agreement or the contract. So those can always be kind of tough. Yeah.

One resource I wanted to share also is from the securities and Exchange Commission. They have an office of the Small business advocate for capital formation. And so they're working on the educational piece as well. I know Ricky had joined me on a, we were on a call to educate us also about that team and what they're working on. Sometimes it's hard across federal agencies. Well, I know we're starting to wrap up because we'll close at 3:25. I did want to ask. So, Charlton, you had mentioned, you know, one of the things that you were trying to do is have these individual conversations. So you know what's going on, how to plug entrepreneurs in kind of at the right stage, connect up to the right resource, even if you're not that one.

Right.

And I think that's really, that's, that's sort of that ecosystem builder mindset. Right. Because then, you know, I'm sure Shaila's got like, you've got this network of 1200 other investors, Ricky, you've got your. Your multiple. And we didn't even get to talk about your international background and the work that you do there, that you did there. But there are so many different networks and possible connection points, I guess. What would you. How would you advise, like a. You know, it's. It's. How do you keep track personally? Is it just that your brain is really that good at, like, trapping all of these things that when somebody says something, it's just like, oh, that reminds me of.

Yeah, I am a nerd about finding resources and figuring out ways to, like, show that. Probably about two or three years ago, I found this really great framework for, like, cataloging ecosystems and the resources. And I got it from Lolita Taub. And so I. I was like, I gave her. I made sure. I called her. I was like, I took this from you. This is great. But I created something for Atlanta, and then when I came here, I recently published something that is just like a. A guide to the ecosystem. And so for me, that helps me frame my thinking about what's happening here. What's, like a little bit of the history. And then it just has a list of stuff essentially. So, like, VCs that are here, angel groups, other funding. And so it helps me understand how to view the ecosystem and what things are available. And, you know, I go to the level where I just want to make sure, like, there's no broken link. Because I hate Reese when resources are stale and oats. Like, I know if I hate it. I know the founders that I work with, like, they want to make sure things are up to date. So I try to do my due diligence and make sure things are still. Are still working, but that once I create something like that, that helps frame it. And it's a little bit of like a. It's helpful for me to publish this because then people will reach out to me if I'm missing something or, you know, if there's a new resource. And so it's. It's definitely strategic. And then, you know, a natural thing for me to follow up would be like, what's the road map now to. To guide through this list? And so, yeah, so that's kind of, you know, that's. It's what I enjoy doing. And so that's why I'd love to be able to do this work, because it's honestly something I really enjoy in terms of just serving the founders that are in the community.

Shila or Ricky with our last minute. Do you have any thoughts on either that question or just anything that pops into mind?

Nope. I know we're going to wrap up in a minute, but whatever answers entrepreneurs out there, I'm just gonna say, continue to dream big. The world is your oyster. Yes, there are going to be pitfalls along the way, but, like, just don't give up. That's all I have to say. And thanks for having me here.

And just quickly to Shila and Charlton, I meant what I said about you all really serving as the point, the boots on the ground for access and opportunity, shifting that narrative. So thank you so much for the work that you're doing. Thank you for joining the panel today. It's been nothing short of an honor and privilege.

Thank you so much.