Accounting Conferences: Scaling New Heights

Welcome to Accountants Law Pod, where accounting professionals and law firms converge. Hosted by Lynda Artesani, Sarah Prevost, and Stephen Libhardt.

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the Accountants Law Pod podcast. And this week we're going to talk about conferences, in particular Scaling New Heights, which is going to be coming up really, really quick from when this show drops. And what we're really going to talk about is not just that particular conference, but some tips if you are going on what you need to do to get ready for it. And also some experiences we've had along the way going to different conferences or even speaking. And speaking of speaking, we have an opportunity to talk to Sarah, who's going to tell us about the course she's going to be teaching at Scaling, which I think is an amazing course.

Thank you. It's definitely— I'm excited about it. Been doing quite a bit of research too on different ways to help present it so it's attainable and can, you know, make it easy for people to deal with. But the topic is how to handle client pushback, which— It's the number one topic that we always have to deal with. We ask each other, Steve has come to us and we have gone to Steve of how to handle this pushback on this one item or how to handle this moment and how to navigate it with the objective of a win-win.

So do you think it's because we work with attorneys that we need to handle pushback more than regular people, bookkeepers? And Steve's nodding. I know this is a podcast, but Steve is nodding. So yeah, I think we could all nod our heads. I think that—

I think so. I think so.

What do you think about that, Steve?

Oh, definitely. I mean, we're dealing with people who are— I call them uber professional. They have paid a bundle of money to go to school to become attorneys. They're trained to negotiate, to challenge, to ask questions. You know, they're a whole different breed of people just by the type of work that they do. And so the dynamics of dealing with them, I think this is awesome that you're going to be talking about this at Scaling New Heights.

You know, Sarah's the master at handling.

She is. She totally is.

She's very good.

Well, you guys have put me through the test in the Law Lab, and Steve used a real situation. Had I not, I did not know that. We did a, what did we do? Like a role play kind of thing?

So a little backstory on that. One of the weeks we were trying to figure out what to do in the Law Lab, and I said, you know, Sarah did such a great job with a client of ours in particular that she just kind of squashed it down and squashed a, I think the person was just having a bad day, but they came at us and Sarah like, just diffused the whole situation. I said, this is gonna make a great topic in the Law Lab. 'Cause not just me, but Nicole was also sitting there, like, we were like, wow, watching and learning, right? And we said, Sarah, you're so good at this. We should teach this. So we did that, but we did a little role-playing and nobody wanted to take the role of the attorney on, but Steve stepped up and tried to be a difficult attorney to see how Sarah would handle it. And he did a great job and Sarah handled it like she always does. It was good.

Well, you know, and to tack onto what you were saying a minute ago, Sarah, we've had behind-the-scenes conversations, the 3 of us, about particular difficult situations we've been in. 'Cause, you know, you reach that point where it's like we're working remotely, we're not in an office somewhere, you know, and sometimes you have to reach out to somebody else and say, "Hey, how would you handle this? I'm stuck," you know?

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like with our staff, we're the end of the line. We're where the buck stops with our people.

Yeah.

With our businesses. You know, if somebody with the people on our team, if somebody is mean to them or gets them upset, I step right in. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that.

Yeah. Well, just, I feel like even just this week it's presented itself a few times with the emotional aspect of it. That's not an easy thing, myself included. Your tone of voice, your, the way that you handle yourself. Can creep up. But I feel like there's little reminders and good little tips that we could do. And I did not realize— I will say this— I did not realize that was a gift or a craft. It comes from such a different space for me, so I appreciate being acknowledged for it. But I had no idea. And so I— it's kind of nice to kind of learn a new skill that I didn't— you didn't know you had, and and help others because it's so intuitive and natural.

So I— Well, you know, you know what it is, Sarah, and I think it's why you and I connect so well. We both came from the hotel business.

I was just gonna say that.

We came from the hospitality business, and that's how we were trained. The guest is always right, even when they're wrong. There are, um, what's the word I'm looking for? There are appropriate ways to let them know they're wrong. Right. To handle those situations. And then I worked for an airline for a while. Same thing. It was like, you know, people are just keyed up when they're traveling and, you know, we kind of run into that psychology with attorneys as well because they have to, we have to take their attorney hat off and put their business hat on and go, okay, you're in a safe space. Let's chill down. Let's calm down. Let's get through this. You know, it's safe. Know your numbers.

I think you're on to something there where the, the moment of saying the client's always right, there's a caveat to it.

Yeah.

It's their perception of them being right. You, you don't, you don't really challenge that perception of that. You just basically step through a space of how to navigate to where it It's not about being right or wrong. It's just navigating to how to get to move to the path forward or agree to disagree and say, you know what, we're not going to agree on this. So we either table it or we move to a different area or we decide that this is not going to work. And we've done that before.

Or it's okay to say to them, I just don't understand. Mm-hmm.

What you're trying to— That's most of it, right? The communication, understanding what they're trying to tell you. Right. Most of it.

Yeah.

But also I think Sarah, one of the things you taught me hopefully this isn't spilling the beans on your course, but a lot of times I think it wasn't just me writing back to them in an email because things can be taken out of context.

Oh yeah.

And you were telling me not to use, first of all, stop apologizing. And then second of all, take the word you outta your language because the word you is, it just kind of, it has a kind of a feeling to it that it's like you're accusing. So I don't wanna give away the story 'cause I want everybody to come to this course. Believe me, you will walk out learning something on this course and Sarah, what is that, Tuesday?

It's Tuesday. Yeah. So, and Lynda, you give me an idea really quick before I move on on it is maybe we should— I think you and I might want to collaborate on something that we could give tips and tricks on. So those that attend get access to this.

Yeah, I mean, it's a good thing to have.

Because I forget that this is the thing. So I know, Tiara, you're in the background, but if that's something we can work on together, the three of us—

It means you're doing it, Tiara, just so you know.

Yeah. So, but Tuesday, thank you for the thumbs up. Tuesday, I believe it's a 5:00 or 5:30 that I'm on, and I am definitely looking forward to it. Let me just take a quick look.

And Scaling, I've been to Scaling now, and I've seen people because they give out pins. So every time you go to Scaling New Heights Conference, And I always say Scaling to Heights, I mean comparing it, I've only other one was going to QuickBooks Connect. So QuickBooks Connect is a big party. It's razzle dazzle, sparkly, lots of, I mean it's classy, it's energized, it's really glitzy and Scaling's more subdued. And I think my biggest revelation of the people who go to Scaling was when Misty Mejia, our mentor, She got up on stage and she gave a beautiful keynote and she had everybody stand up that was a ProAdvisor. And then she had everybody sit down. Then she had everybody stand up that was an Advanced ProAdvisor. And there was so many of us in the room. That's your crowd that's there. So you've got people who are really there to learn. So even if you're just starting out, you still can go. There's plenty of courses to take, but there's a lot of colleagues there and there's a lot of connections, which is why we go to conferences. It's not just about learning from the speakers, it's also collaborating and getting to be with your, your peers. And you, you will learn, I think that's the thing I learned so much from even QuickBooks Connect way back from my first conference was that I learned more sitting at the dining room table at lunch than I did in a lot of the sessions. I learned a lot in the sessions, but I made these lifelong friendships with people that I think are invaluable. And I think that's the reason why you wanna put out the money and it's not cheap. I mean, scaling's—

It's not cheap.

Scaling's like $795 or something to go, and then you gotta buy the hotel and the travel. It's not inexpensive, but it's an investment in you. And if, if you want to invest in your professional career, and I've always said like going to QuickBooks Connect in 20— 2018 was my first one, I think it was 2016. No, no, 2016.

'Cause you and I—

In 2016, I went alone. I was terrified. I never traveled alone. I flew from Florida. To California by myself. I filled my day with sessions from minute. I was running from one to the other. I was exhausted. I'm on East Coast brain. I went to bed at 6:30. I didn't network. I didn't do any of the fun things. And I was— it was not what you should do. If you go to a conference, pack sneakers or sensible shoes. Layer your clothes because it tends to be— you're gonna be in St. Louis. It's gonna be hot, but you're gonna be in a place of quiet. It's probably freezing, so you wanna layer up. 'Cause one year we went to a conference and it wasn't freezing. But I think the one thing I think about, my takeaway with scaling was Joe Woodard kept that conference going during COVID And we met, and it was in Florida, and I remember being so isolated and locked up and making the decision to take the chance to go and going to that conference. And they did such a great job with the protocol of making sure everybody was safe. And they did a, it was a very small conference that year, but that got me into a better place inside of COVID because COVID was so awful because you were isolated. And that conference meant so much to me just for that reason. And I won't forget that. And I've learned a lot at the conferences and then now I speak at them. This year I'm a student, which I think is kind of fun and I get to heckle Sarah from the front row. But I don't know, I, I'd love to hear your take, Steve. I know you go to a lot of conferences and what do you think about them?

Yeah. I know, I'd love to hear it from you, Steve.

Well, I haven't been to a lot of accounting conferences in the last several years just because I've been growing this company, this firm that I have here. I think that they're very, very important for connecting with the people that you know, that we all know through the internet, obviously, your tribe, so to speak. There's always something to learn. Don't go to a conference just for the party. You know, go to the conference to nurture your mind and your soul in what you're doing. I agree with you, Lynda. Don't try to go to every single session because you'll just burn out. You know, because in the sessions there's so much information thrown at you in such a short amount of time. But it's a great time, like the Scaling New Heights that you guys are going to. I love, I love that Sarah is speaking. I just think that's awesome. And you know, for the legal field, Amanda Aguilar is going to be there. She does a great presentation. It looks like there's a, you know, a really great lineup for that conference. Yeah. So, you know, there, the techs, you know, the, the, we all have that squirrel syndrome in our businesses. The tech stack stuff that's at all these conferences is amazing to just go through the, the, the vendor hall and see what's new and exciting out there and what they have to offer you. There's always some tidbit, you know, drink lots of water like Lynda said, wear comfortable shoes, make sure you're getting your rest and your nutrition and, you know, go with an open mind and just absorb as much information as you can.

You know, in planning, too. I mean, I'm, I'm in a good— I gotta say, I'm looking at the lineup, and you know, some of my buddies are in here. Like Cole Davis has got a good, a good session going at the same time as me. But there's other ones that I'm really interested in looking into and planning. You know, like, for Lynda and I being firm owners like yourself, Steve, and our thought process is where, where are the best opportunities for us to take courses that make a huge impact, possibly, in our ability to reframe, grow, level up in our own selves. Um, sometimes we divide and conquer, sometimes we wish we don't because it's fun to share in the space. Um, when you're solo and doing it on your own, it feels so overwhelming too. I remember that feeling, and I still feel that way. I'm like, God, there's I have to keep Sarah out of the vendor section. I know, I know.

Software. Oh, oh, I talked to this one. You have to come talk to them. And then we kind of race around there. But it's fun.

It is fun.

You two were at a conference. I'm sorry to interrupt. You were at a conference somewhere this last year and you posted videos on Facebook of all of your adventures. And I was like, oh, I want to be there so bad because look at all the stuff they're learning and the fun that they're having.

Which one was that?

It might have been Connects there. I know we ran around somewhere and did that.

Oh man, we were running.

And you were doing videos in the vendor hall. I remember that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it is nice to— it's just nice to connect with people that are in the same profession that might have the same questions I have, questions learning from others. That's the engaging part of it.

Well, that gives you strength for your convictions in running your business. You're like, I'm not crazy, somebody else has got this.

Somebody else is just as crazy.

No, I'm kidding. Yeah, somebody else is just as crazy.

Validate you.

I think that's why the three of us got together. Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, well, I think Lynda, and I'm curious from your perspective, it is, you mentioned that it's pretty night, like I know I dragged you to this one, but I want you there with me because so many things, obviously. But you said it's pretty nice to actually finally be a student again. So I'm wondering through that lens what that looks like for you.

You know, I've looked at the sessions. I'm trying to pick and choose because I don't want to overfill my, you know, I don't want to do what I did the first time I went to a conference. And I've been to, oh my, I've gone, I mean, there was years there where I was at I went to Connect in San Jose, then I flew off to Connect in Toronto and ran around like a nut. We did like sessions where we were running and interviewing people and we did the, remember the app showdown, Sarah?

Yeah.

They used to have, Connect had an app showdown and we would run around and interview all the app vendors. And the thing we used to do is we used to ask like the story behind what made them create the app. And that was what made it fun. And then of course somebody would win the app showdown, which was fun. And then we did the 17 shirt challenge one time, which we ran around and got the— because everybody was giving out t-shirts. So we just went from vendor to vendor and we just kept putting shirts on.

That's funny.

It was very funny because by the end, I mean, hot with so many layers on, right?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

But it was a lot of fun and we ran like we had— I don't know how we had to do it. I can't remember how he had it all set up. Matthew had it all set up where we went around to each one, but we did it really fast. So we actually had to like run with the camera and run with the shirts and put the shirt on and then get a quick thing on it. And it was fun. And the vendors just, at that point they were bored 'cause it, they sit in there all day long. So if you do go to a conference, stop in and see them and chat with them, ask them their story. If you have an app, like say you go see Keeper, one of our dear, dear friends, talk to Ben and ask him, you know, what made you start this journey and what's on the roadmap. It's kind of cool to know what's on the roadmap. We've got so many friends. I mean, we've had great connections with Reach Reporting. I'm trying to think of all the people we've met along the way that we've had some— I mean, we're gonna meet the folks at Ignition when we go and we're gonna be hanging out with the guys from Colbox.

So that'll make you jealous, Steve. I think the thing that's interesting, Lynda, and kind of what you're possibly leading to is when you're going through the vendor alley and Steve, I know it's definitely fun. But it's also a great time to, you know, if you're on the cusp of like, for us, we've been on the cusp for a certain type of internal workflow that we want, and maybe there's, you know, a segment of apps that might fit that, and you have that opportunity to spend a little bit more time looking at a deeper dive demo than having, you know, a separate time to do a bigger demo. Like, you can actually spend that time right there if you allowed yourself that time. So we And I believe a lot of the conferences are, they give us that moment where we get to go through it. Now it feels like a lot because it's a lot of people going through the vendor booths and stuff, but it is really nice. And then a lot of the people that are there are really, they're there for a reason because they understand, they know, or they have knowledge, or they once were in a, they once were us and now they are part of the app, you know, the, the app side of it. So anyways, I think that's where you're going with it, Lynda, is like, you're kind of like, it's nice to make the friends, but it's also, it really deepens your relationship too, and it makes it really cool.

Yeah, it kind of gives you like, you get to meet and you put a face with the software. I mean, I've seen you, you go into like the Xero section and you go into where they have the Gusto payroll, like she's in there telling them what they need to fix. And changing their software. And she's like, this is what you need to do. And they always listen to her. And, and, and, you know, from us working in the product, they wanna hear from us because we're the ones using the product and they wanna know what we like about it, what we don't like about it, and what we could, what we think. And sometimes they'll, they'll actually get a pad and pen and write out, oh, that's a great idea. I never thought of that. Because they're just working at it from a different, from a different angle. And I think that that's what makes those parts fun. And it's really worth your time to do. There's a reason why they, I think it's Intuit that always puts the vendors in the middle of where you have your lunch, right? They always have it there for breakfast and snacks and they're right there. I don't know if, is that how WOODARD does it? I'm trying to remember.

Yeah, they have a lot of it.

They have a bigger section.

Outside the rooms too. And just in conferences in general. So Steve, I know that you mentioned, you said something I thought was kind of a good point to, sort of discuss a little bit more on is I know you've been busy building the business and there's also that value. And that's the hard part is like the expense and the time to go to conferences because it does take us out. You have to be strategic, especially if a team, how many can go, how much time can you dedicate? The value of it. Yeah. So then it, in my opinion, and I just am curious of this, how you— it's like you, you want to make sure you're optimizing as best you can, I feel.

Right.

Okay. Yeah. I'm— and so that's— I'm curious because I know that you mentioned the comment about like, I've been working on the business, but how do you feel now? Like, as you're seeing, as you're progressing, where do you see yourself in attendance probably in the next few years and in conferences? Like, being selective, or how do you feel about it?

We definitely want to ramp that up, and I want to do conferences that are very effective for the people on the team.

Okay.

So that they're getting a lot of value out of it, um, and so that they're, they're involved in the process of picking which conferences we go to. And, um, you know, so that I really want to make it so that it works for them.

Okay.

That makes sense.

Yeah, that makes sense knowing you, Steve. I think too, like, well, we're all going to connect together and it's gonna be fun 'cause we're really gonna be really together. And I think it's gonna be a lot of fun that the part of that, like Sarah and I did last year is we took our staff with us. So we had this big entourage of people, which was kind of fun. But what was invaluable for us was getting everybody together in the same place, in the same room, 'cause we are all remote, we're everywhere. And we're not— none of us are even— most of us not even in the same state. So to get us all together, and I remember that last day, Sarah, when we were ready to leave and, you know, exhausted, right? You're always exhausted after Connect. So make sure you pad off a day or two there at the end that you take some time off because you will be tired and your head will be full. But I remember when we were all sitting with our luggage waiting to leave and we're all like, oh, I don't want to— we just love being together so much that it was like, oh, this is sad. We don't want to leave each other. Yeah. Because we were together and it was fun. And it was kind of like this kind of bittersweet when we all parted ways.

Not to mention we needed to get a party bus just for the luggage, not for the people.

Well, we had all women. There were a lot of shoe bags in that pile of luggage.

It's like 22 or 24 bags of luggage for 7 people, I think.

7 people.

Yeah. And I have a fun story from a conference I was at about 3 years ago. One of the people that really inspired me to going to the legal field was Erin Brockovich. And she was the keynote speaker at this convention I was at. And this lady sitting next to me knew that. And so she behind the scenes went to the organizer at the convention and said, you know, Erin Brockovich is one of the people that Steve totally idolizes. He came and got me. His wife came and got me, took me backstage to the green room right before she spoke. I got to meet her, get my photo taken with her, all that sort of stuff. And then I got to sit at lunch with her that day and talk law firms and her history and all. And that just was So cool.

That is so cool. That's a special, special story.

And nothing, that wouldn't have happened had I not gone to the conference. And you know, it was, here was another legal person and who was very successful. She still is, she still litigates and, or she doesn't litigate, but she still is an advocate for water rights to this day.

Wow. Yeah, it's, that's an incredible, I mean, I love stories like that. I think just also within our own profession, we have colleagues that we've looked up to and admired and just being able to connect with them, approaching and thanking them. That's also really cool.

I love that.

I love to be like, thank you so much for all these tips.

It's weird when you're, like, you do all these things on Facebook and stuff. And I can still remember the first time I went to a conference. It wasn't 2017, it was 2018. And I remember it was kind of like we're walking down the hallway and somebody came up, oh my God, it's Lynda Artesani. Lynda, you know, I'm like, I feel like a movie star at that point. I wasn't, but you know, and it, it's just kind of funny, like, oh, I'm just me. But I did the same thing to Michelle Long. So I, you know, what goes around comes around cuz I was like idolized her. So it was kinda like I, I made sure I saw her and found her the first conference I went to because I wanted to go up and tell her, hey, I'm Lynda. She probably didn't even know who I was at that time, but it was fun. And then also the first conference I ever went to, Sarah and I had been talking about it and we realized we were probably sitting in the same row at the same session. We know we were. And we didn't know each other, but we were probably sitting next to each other in 2016 and just didn't know each other. It's kind of a weird story, but kind of cool that we just, you know, that's how we probably first interacted with each other, didn't know. And that was at QuickBooks Connect.

And that's where I met a lot of my friends till today, like Nayo and Shirelle and Nicole. Yeah, you know everybody. Nicole I had met before. And you know, just like these people that come up in your life that are, I mean, I feel like, there's just, you text them, you talk to them, you're Facebook messaging them.

And you know 'em on Facebook or social media, but you really don't know 'em until you get to sit down with them and actually give 'em a hug.

Yeah.

It's a lot of hugging.

Yeah, there's a lot of celebration in that. So it is big kumbaya for sure.

Yeah.

Well, you know, an important thing too is for those in your team that maybe can't make it to the conference.

Yeah.

Coming back with something for them, not something tangible so much as something. Yeah, I learned this at the conference. This will address that very challenge that you were going through. And you know, this is what I learned to help you. And, you know, bring something back that makes a difference so they see the value in it.

That's why I'm not allowed to do the apps anymore, Steve.

Well, there is that.

But you're— I'm not alone. I see that you're the same way. Squirrel. Yeah. No, it's so— I'm definitely looking forward to it. I'm definitely looking forward to reconnecting after and hearing how your trip went, Steve, because you're going to be on a trip.

Yeah.

Well, so coming up, we do have a few— I guess we should plug a few of the things that are coming up, but I have found an attorney slash CPA.

That's awesome.

And this lady was so interesting. I'm going to the Airstream International Rally the same time you guys are at Scaling New Heights.

Mm-hmm.

And there's going to be 1,300 Airstreams there altogether. And I had, I told Lynda and Sarah last week when we were recording a podcast, I said, my mission is to find an attorney that, that can practice out of their Airstream. And right after that meeting, I just went out to the group app for this big rally. And lo and behold, she's giving a presentation on tax advantages and things like that with RVs and, and all of that. So I reached out to her and we have her scheduled for a podcast. So her name is Susan Tucker and we will be talking to her next— in 2 weeks. Yeah, well, she'll be a guest on one of our podcasts. I don't know when we'll drop that one, but we have that coming up.

We also have Chris Farrell from LISCIO coming up. Our dear friend. Really kind of help us with this FTC. And yes, um, and we also, uh, Theofan, um, who is amazing at the sales funnel, um, for especially for the legal space, the businesses, and just a, just a great person to talk to, just business-wise, business sense.

Um, we're bringing in Paris Heinan, a wellness coach, in a few weeks to share with all of us ways to get out of our chairs, get off our butts and exercise and drink water and eat right. Because we get glued to these chairs all day long, and then we complain that our joints hurt. You know, we're going to be bringing—

Are we supposed to stand up right now? Is that what you mean?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Everybody, we're going to do some mantra things. Okay.

I know I referenced and I didn't, I can't really say her name, but Misty Mejia will be joining us as well in the avenues of public speaking, theater, public speaking, all of these amazing pieces. And she's just— all of these guests really, such a wonderful space to be able to interview them, get to know them more, even though we know some of them already, just getting to know them more and sharing their knowledge in areas that— Yes. Would benefit all of us. So I'm grateful for this. I'm grateful for that space. And yeah, so, well—

So if you're going to Scaling New Heights, make sure you find me and Sarah, and also go to Sarah's session because you will not be disappointed. And, um, also if you want to subscribe, we'd love it if you'd subscribe to this podcast and our YouTube channel by searching Accountants Law Pod or by following the links below in the show notes. If you have any questions or topic requests or guest suggestions, you can email us at info@accountantslawpod.com or send us a message to the website www.accountantslawpod.com. And if you want to join us in the Accountants Law Lab, so we're all members of the Accountants Law Lab. If you'd like to do that, you can visit us there at www.accountantslawlab.com. So that's Law Lab and Law Pod. Hopefully I said that loud enough so you could see it. It's also in the show notes if you want to follow along. And if you wanna follow Steve in his Airstream, you can follow him and his adventures by following the podcast as well. So I hope everybody enjoyed. I hope this encourages you. I sat on the fence for a very long time not going to conferences, wanting to, but not actually making the decision. I can remember sitting down saying, I'm gonna do this. So if this help— I hope this encourages you. Scaling Heights is a great one to start with. It's not as big and it's, it's a little bit smaller. It's a little bit more cozy and great sessions, great learning experience. So we hope we see you there. And on that note, we'll all see you on the next— next time we have a podcast, which is next week. Bye, everybody.

Thank you. Bye.