The Magic of Community with Cindy Schroeder

Welcome to Accountants Law Pod, where accounting professionals and law firms converge. Hosted by Lynda Artesani, Sarah Prevost, and Stephen Libhart.

Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. And today we have a very special guest. She is a friend of all of ours and she has a community. So it's called Magic of Community. Because she's had a community before anybody else ever had communities. And I'm gonna send, send it over to Cindy to really kind of tell us about it. It's Cindy Schrader from Bookkeeping Buds. Hello, Cindy. Nice to have you.

Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to be part of this. My name's Cindy Schrader. I have a bookkeeping business called Bright Bookkeeping, and I started that back in 2007 and quickly realized I do not have an entrepreneur background. My parents were both Depression kids. My dad worked for the same company for about 40 years. And so for me to try my own thing was kind of crazy. And so I knew very quickly that I didn't want to do it all on my own. And so I created a community called Bookkeeping Buds in 2009. And it started off— I was part of a group called the Chicagoland QuickBooks ProAdvisor Group, which was a group of bookkeepers, CPAs, and There were some tech people as well that would have a monthly meeting at a local meeting space, like an actual in-person meeting, kind of unheard of these days. And Intuit would call in every meeting to give updates on Intuit. And it was just kind of a way to connect and stay up to date with each other, what's going on in the industry, ask each other questions and things like that. And so since I was so new, I had so much to still learn, I didn't want to ask dumb questions in front of CPAs and people that I could potentially get referrals from. So I was looking for a different option. And so thankfully there was another bookkeeper there. Her name's Kay Morgan. She has since retired, but I reached out to her and said, you know, would you be interested in meeting up regularly just for bookkeepers so that we could ask those dopey questions and not be afraid of, of not asking the right thing or not knowing things? And she said, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. So that's kind of how it started. We would meet once a month at a Panera. In the Chicago area.

I'm from Chicago.

And then we grew it to about like 10 or 12 people. I can't remember. And then we stopped. And so decided that, you know, we kind of grew this community. We all know each other. We don't want to bring new people in. And then I always had this kind of thing in the back of my head that I wanted to create a retreat, a live retreat. And life kind of happened. I ended up losing both my parents that had cancer in a series of 3 years. And so in the back of my mind, I kind of still had this, I want to grow this community. So kind of reimagined it in 2014 and then invited a bunch of bookkeepers that I didn't even really know and just kind of told them this, the idea of, you know, let's meet together once a month and just connect and collaborate. And would you be interested? And they all signed up immediately. And so that's kind of how it started. And then now we're— we meet virtually for the most part. We do have a couple groups that still meet in person, and we have monthly meetings via Zoom, and then we also have— we communicate with each other through Slack. So most of the members aren't necessarily on social media, and social media, if you just go on there for a question, you get really distracted, and you can have all these other things going on. So we like to keep everything in Slack where it's a very safe place to put questions out there, concerns you have about clients, learn, you know, how— what tech are you using, all of those types of questions. And then all of our members can, you know, chime in of what their experience is.

That's wonderful. I, you know, you really— when you think back to it, we really didn't have a lot of— well, before Facebook, we had no other group but the Intuit Community. So it's interesting that you were innovative enough to start this and kind of gather a group of women and then really empower them. Them, I would say. I know Sarah just came back from attending your conference and being a speaker at your conference, and she was glowing when she came back about how much fun it was. And so was our assistant Tiara. They loved it. Um, you wanna— Sarah, wanna tell us how you felt about being at the Bookkeeping Buds?

It was, um, I honestly, I've been admiring it for a while. So like being on the sidelines, I'm thinking, how the hell do you get there? And then I got the special invite, like that it was just such an honor. And I really felt like just watching the interaction, having new few people. I unfortunately did what Mel Robbins called us all out for. I kind of had my little group of people I was comfortable with, but then I gradually, because I, you know, didn't know the format per se. So I gradually got myself in, just started diving in and started saying hello and understanding people are at all different spectrums. Yeah. In the group. Some are possibly facing retirement. Some are wanting to learn from the start. And so this, it was just magical to sit in a room and start with wellness and start with that process and getting a warmup and then the power of that. And then moving into kind of the, the technical sides and the how to engage side and— what the everyday life is, the working side of it. But just in that 2 days, it's, it just like, I felt like it catapulted this kind of re-energizing feeling inside me. And I felt so much gratitude to, it was like a reminder to myself where I am at in my journey. And I know that passion is where we're kind of, a lot of us that have been in this for a while. is where we're driving to because it doesn't always mean how many people on your team, how many clients. I mean, that's what our software people want, but that's not maybe what we want as we've served our community for a while. We're looking to reengage. So I felt that— and I know it's the last one. I understand it's just you and your husband. You do— you manage this, just the two of you on the community alone. Yeah. Which Lynda and I can relate. It's a lot of work, so I get it. But the magical moments that we had there, I just want to say thank you because you really did a great job.

Well, thank you. We're so glad to have you join us. And I know everyone's like, okay, I could listen to a whole day of Sarah talk because she has so many tips and ideas. And so Sarah shared about how to have a difficult conversation with clients, with, you know, anybody. And one of the biggest things that I think everyone took away from that was to stop saying I'm sorry. And so, and instead say, "I apologize," which for some reason is different, and I'm not exactly sure why. But, and that's something that we tend to try to remind everyone that, you know, just because something doesn't work out how you expect it to doesn't mean that you need to say you're sorry or apologize for it. Just, you know, acknowledge it and move forward.

Thank you. Yeah, I—

female thing, right, Sarah? We all, as women, we do it. I don't know where we picked that trait up, but she taught the whole team that, uh, we've all learned that hard lesson. And I've done it even with sometimes, because we work together, and I might even have a client on the Artesani side, and then I'll have, uh, I'll shoot the email to her like, look what this person just said, how mean they were. And then she'll go, and I'll write my response, and I'll say, this is what I wrote. She's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, don't apologize. Second of all, we're changing that whole language and she'll completely change the language. And I've told the story before, but it changed my communication with this person cuz she was, uh, an attorney and she's very, um, blunt and bold, but she's also like everything's one mistake and she's like down your throat. That all stopped. And then she does please and thank you now. I was like, whoa. It was like she, that someone hit her over her head, the head with a pan or something. And she just really, that one email. And she's so good at this, this skill set. I think it comes like Steve and Sarah from their working at hospitality. You have to be good on your toes. I think that dealing with people, people skills, and then she's just really good. I mean, when we— she did the session at Scaling, nobody wanted to leave the room. They all wanted to get her. And I was— I've had people walk up and say, can I have Sarah? I'm like, no, you can't have Sarah.

She's mine.

But you know, because I need her with working with lawyers because they tend to have very bold personalities. They live in a world of. you know, getting it done and being very— I'm going to say some of them depends on the type of practice area, but they're very concise, indirect. Concise. Yeah. Direct back and they don't know what to do with it. And it's fun to watch. It's like, yeah, I want my popcorn. It's really fun to watch when she comes out and it's like, oh my God, that's so awesome.

I want to have my popcorn.

Everybody on the team feels the same way. So we've all learned that process. And so I've been encouraging her to do that session because it's really transformative in the language you use, how important the language is you use. So, Yeah. And that's one thing that, you know, you learned at that, y'all, she taught at your group, which is great.

Well, the support of the community, I feel like, is what, where it's obviously, I, for me, it's just looking at like people like Seth David, where I met Lynda, people like within your group where I've heard within the group, oh my God, the Slack channel is amazing. It's been the best. It's transformed how I've chosen to do things. And I think, okay, it's through those, that confidence building, a little bit of survival mode, I'm sure, for a lot of people, and learning your value and your worth. It's amazing that, Cindy, that you started this journey knowing what I know about you, and you started this journey from a place of also your own need, but in a place of sharing and building, and how it's transformed I mean, it's honestly touching to see some got emotional in the way that you held the space in the initial first day. Some got really emotional about the gratitude it is, and that's a nice thing to have. And we hear that a little bit in our community, but having so much tenure, I mean, how many members do you have right now in your group?

Yeah, we have a little more than 80 right now across the country. So yeah, it's really great. And I think that too, I mean, so people always thank me for starting this group and all of that, and I often feel like I didn't really do anything. Like the magic is in the people. And so, you know, I can be there to help bring everybody together, and that's just kind of the secret sauce, right? And then the magic just happens from the connection and the collaboration that happens. So we have all sorts of levels of people. So we have people that are just starting out being a book homekeeper, maybe, you know, people that have worked for many, many years and then they're transitioning to doing their own thing, all the way to, you know, members that have been in business. I started in 2007, some started before me. They have, you know, either solopreneur, big large firms, everything in between. And I just love that everybody has their unique journey and they're all willing to share it and just really support each other. And I always say that, you know, even if you're just starting out, like oftentimes they don't feel like they anything to contribute to a group like this, but that excitement and that motivation that they bring, like, oh, and they get their first client or their second client, or they charge way more than what, you know, they originally thought they could. That excitement, like, for us people that have been in it for way too long, you know, it's like, oh yeah, that's right, I do remember that. That is exciting. You know, I mean, obviously the big point is to help the clients and help them run a better business and be able to read financials and understand financials and things like that. But it's those little things. And I think as bookkeepers that we spend so much time in our head that I like to bring in that piece of like, no, like, how can this help you? You know, and how, you know, just there's more to it than just the technical of QuickBooks.

Have you ever had anybody partner up at all in your group? Sorry, Steve.

Anybody partner up like Yeah, we actually, yeah, we do. And so on our Slack channel, we have a leads, or on our Slack group, I don't even know what you call it. We have a channel called Leads. And so everybody of you, if they get a lead that, you know, isn't good for them, they'll put it out there. And so we've helped to build a lot of people's businesses that way. And then we've had several people that they'll work on similar projects together or they'll, you know, somebody needs help with cleanup, you know, someone will be like, oh yeah, I love doing cleanup. So like they'll help just on a project. And we've actually had several people that actually have either bought businesses from each other or even collaborated to just own a business. So yeah, it's a great way to, um, to really— there's everything. We have all sorts of people out there.

I was going to ask how you, um, help people that, that find your group that might, you know, speaking to the introverted side here, how they— how you help bring them along with the imposter syndrome.

Yeah, absolutely. So we have, as bookkeepers, and I'm probably the worst one, I'm very introverted. So things like being on a podcast, like, do not come naturally. I am super great at, you know, pushing people out of their comfort zone with love, of course. But, and so we get people that, you know, are, they don't even want to be on the screen when, you know, we have our monthly Zoom meetings. And so just really encouraging them to have their camera turned on and just little pieces of building these confidence, um, to, you know, start to charge what you're worth, start to think about what clients you really want to take on and not take on everybody just because they called. And so, um, we do a lot of that at the retreat as well. And so As Sarah said, so, so I've had the retreat for 6 years. Um, the first day is always health and wellness. So we've done things like reflexology and journaling and, um, chair yoga. And we've had medical people, like, so we try to bring in things that maybe, um, people aren't aware of. So this year we did, um, oh my gosh, I'm like totally blanking. We did a sleep expert. She was, that was something that I had wanted to have come in for a long time. So she told us all about the importance of sleep and I am a huge sleep person. We take thunder naps all the time. I live in Florida. It's the best. But there's a lot of people that don't believe that it's important. And then we also had a woman who I'm good friends with do sound healing. And so she brought in these instruments of like just played this music that we just sat and it was kind of meditative. You just kind of felt it all throughout your body. And so there's things like this that I like love to bring in just to get everyone exposed to things like that. Our biggest one was we had someone a few years ago, taught us about tai chi, and several of the women still are taking tai chi classes.

Nice.

One of them is a certified tai chi person. And so yeah, even at the retreats though, I always like to try to get everybody to be seen, be heard, and you know, just having these little touches will help to build their confidence. So this year our theme was Shine Bright. Our kind of our overall logo or saying for BUDS is dream big, shine bright, be kind. And so this was, Shine Bright. And so everybody got a tiara, and which was funny because Tiara was there.

Tiara was wearing a tiara. The picture of Tiara and the tiara.

That's our sister. It was magical.

Sarah had two because she stole the decorations.

She was so cute.

Everyone had a tiara, and then they stood up and introduced themselves. And so people that are are really not used to being in the spotlight or talking into a microphone. And we've had a couple of women there that were like, I've never held a microphone before in front of a group of women. You know, just those little things I think just really help to build your confidence in yourself, your self-love with yourself, everything like that.

It was so magical, Lynda, honestly.

You were impressed from the very beginning. I remember you telling me just the introduction part. She was telling me about like, it was so cool to see everybody get up and tell their story.

And you didn't have too much time. People did really respect and honor the time limit. There was one person in particular that obviously is tenure, but super, super shy. But I learned just in that quick moment where Cindy just gracefully got her to, oh no, you're going to say a bit more and you're going to stand up and you're going to do this. You're going to work hard.

Yeah.

And she has a special gift in the industry that we're a ledger system that she uses that nobody else uses. And the entire room was like, oh, whoa, wait a minute, I could refer to that person. So that valuable nugget. And also that knowing the history that she once worked with Cindy back in the day. So she's a spinoff and guiding herself down her own journey. But yeah.

And the coolest part about that is so that I remember she does Zoho is her, which she uses. She uses QuickBooks too, but she does Zoho. And so very, very shy. And Kate Johnson was there and she talked about how to add video to your business. And so at dinner the first night, Kim, who's the woman we're talking about, and Kate were at the same table and Kate was like, oh, you need to start doing Zoho videos and start this channel. And I could just feel Kim like, uh, like, no, that's not going to happen. And literally, like, I was like, this just proves the magic of being in a room of just all this like inspiration and big thinking. The next day Kim actually said, oh, I went in and I looked and there isn't any videos on this. Like, I think I might actually can do this, you know? And so yeah, it was just amazing.

Well, and speaking of Kate, Lynda, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but Kate did this whole showing. She brought like show and tell. And brought all of her equipment and how to do videos.

Wow.

Yes. And she took the time. She said to me, she goes, do you think it's kind of— I'm like, no, do it. Oh my God. I want to touch the toys. I want to see the equipment you use. So, oh yeah, Kate will be joining us.

So—

I was just going to say, where can I see this?

With community, I think And I, I'll go in my way back machine of when I first started in the Intuit community, when it was a social place to be. I was in there, you know, you're lonely at night. I was working from home and I would just go in and answer questions back in the desktop day when there was a lot of technical questions about, you know, error codes and why maybe a broken link for a memorized transaction or, you know, and I would follow these people. Michelle Wong was in there. There were a lot of people and I learned so much there. So it wasn't a sense of community like you're doing with connecting live, but it was, I felt like I knew all these people that were in there. In fact, Murph, Murph from Insightful was in there. He did a lot of the technical questions and, and then that became kind of like, Intuit didn't put money towards it anymore and it kind of sat and it kind of stalled. And then we decided to make, Matthew Fulton and I decided to make the QUBI Community Live group as a place to do what it used to do in the old community. So we started that and then of course Sarah and I started— once we did the journey of being— working with lawyers, we started down that road of having the Law Lab as a specialized just on that. And then of course, working in that, we had a mastermind group, which then pulled Steve in, and it kind of all interwoven all of our lives, interweaved, I guess, with all of us together. So that can change the path of your career in your life, joining these groups. That's the power behind these groups. You meet these amazing people and you learn from them, and then you become that expert where you can now help others. And there's a lot of, you know, people used to say to me, why did you answer so many questions there? And I really, I kind of feel guilty. I did it for myself. It made me feel really good that I helped somebody that maybe was on support line for like a whole day and came on really bashing QuickBooks because the person trying to help didn't know what they meant. And I had experienced that problem in my own day and was able to answer it in a few sentences, a few screenshots. And of course, nowadays you would do like a short video and It's just, just changed. Everything's just changed and it's kind of the evolution. And the fact that you did it so long ago and you created a real private space where everybody's safe, you know, you're not in Facebook where everything's being read, you know, you're in a place that's very, very safe and that people could join that group. If you're that solo person out there, that's a bookkeeper just starting out and you feel a little isolated, Bookkeeping Buzz is a great place to be. Because you can learn and grow and help. There's a lot of probably software questions, probably even bookkeeping questions. No question is dumb. I think that's the big thing. There's no dumb questions. Everybody's had a question or two that probably could be repeated multiple times. You know, that's the thing that we kind of say at our group is like, it's okay to ask because you're helping a lot of people. And that's the amazing thing. And you grew it so big. That's really cool.

Thank you. Yeah, I think that's definitely, I mean, So you can put a question out there and it's maybe a question that you think, oh, maybe I shouldn't ask this, but you know someone else is going to have that same question. Or a lot of times I know when I very first started, I was part of this leader group and they had a similar platform like Intuit One. Yeah. And you see these questions out there and it's, you know, it may not be relevant to you right now, but just seeing that question, something may happen after the fact and you're like, oh yeah, I remember reading that. So So it's one of those things you don't know what you don't know. And so by asking a question, you may be helping someone else. I think the most important thing is just that you don't have to do everything on your own. And there's so many different communities out there. You just need to find one that resonates with you and works for what you're looking for.

Cindy, what is the biggest fulfilling thing that has happened to you out of Bookkeeping Buds? What really has spoken to your heart and you walked away after one of your annual retreats and went, I am so glad I did that.

I think just, yeah, I'm not sure if I have one specific. I think the biggest thing is that, I mean, when I first started, I would go to the biggest leader conferences. And so, you know, you go to this event that has, you know, 600,000 people.

Oh yeah.

I know, it's very overwhelming. And so as an introvert, you know, just to go there takes a lot of courage and bravery. And so I went by myself. I didn't know anyone and just, you know, I always go in with the thought of like, okay, I just want to meet 3 people. That's it. Like, I don't have to meet 1,000. I just want to meet 3. And so that's how I do all of my networking.

Like, at one time— I met him. I'm on my way home, right?

Yeah, exactly. That's it. I checkmark. Okay, go. And so at one of the events, I had gone a couple of years. And so, you know, you start to meet people every year. And so After I'd gone a couple of years, there was a woman that I met there who we had been on an online course together. And so I was asking her like, how is it going? And this was the first day. And she said, I can't do this. She said, I called my husband last night and said he has to fly out here immediately because this is too overwhelming. I just can't do it. And so what happened to me then was like, okay, she was brave enough to get on a plane, spend the money, get here and freak out. Like how many women are out there that don't even get to that point. And, and going to these conferences and learning from, you know, the education and meeting the vendors and just meeting the people in the hallways is so— it's completely changed my business and my life. And so I know how important it is. So that's really how the Bookkeeping Buzz Retreats got started, because this way it's a safe place. We would never have more than like 40 people because I wanted it small and intimate. And so it's not overwhelming. And so that everyone can get to know each other, or at least I I can encourage them to get to know each other. There's some stubborn people. And so, so I wanted that safe place. And so what happened was a lot of people came to that and they met and they got connected more so than just, you know, seeing each other on Slack. Like there's this magic that happens when you're in person and then they got the confidence to go to the big conferences. And so we've had, we've had last year, I believe it was 22 Bookkeeping Buzz at QuickBooks Connect. And so that just, you know, that piece of it, just seeing them support each other and, and, you know, just thriving and having these businesses where they're hiring employees. I mean, all of that is just, it's just amazing to me.

Do you have repeat people that come every year?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I think we've had, I think we've had 6 that came to every single one of 'em. But yeah, typically it's the same, like 15, 20 people that come. And you know, and then extras that come. And so yeah, so this was the last year that I'm gonna have it like this, like the way I have been having it. We still have different retreats, small retreats. Like I had one last February where it was in Orlando, and we rented a house. We had 5 people come spend 2 days, do deep dive into your business, and then we had a VIP day at Disney because I'm a total Disney nerds. So yeah, it was an amazing day. We did the— it was— yeah, it was— the whole event was so spectacular. I think there's just something so important to be part of a community and be in person that you don't get from going to a Zoom meeting or staying at home.

Sure. I did that last October with a group, and it was— that whole weekend was a catalyst for me for my business this year. It just really pushed me along. I was so grateful for that. I hear you when you say that. It's— it can't be replaced. Yeah.

It reenergizes you, I think.

It does.

And I'll tell you what, if I ever want to go to Disney, I'm going with Cindy because she knows everything about that place. And she'll help me, guide me through all the places. Sign you up too, right, Stephanie?

All right.

Oh, sign me up.

Yeah.

I think— so I was thinking when you were speaking earlier on the Shine Bright, what you kind of do, what is the— so when Mickey does the orchestra, thing. What's that movie or that series called again? The Big Bang Theory. Yes, that's what I feel like. That's what you do when you do all of this. And I must say, knowing you, I know that I accost you sometimes because I want my hug when I see you at conferences.

Always a pleasure.

Yeah, thank you. Knowing you, knowing how really just sort of You, the way, the patience that you give to those people that are in that introverted space and knowing that you kind of guide them along, I feel like is probably something deep inside that probably makes you kind of feel whole again in some ways. It's gotta be, right?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I've found my passion again in the last few years of just really helping those people that are just getting started. Because it's— there's something about, you know, if, if somebody wants the help and they're willing to reach out, like, you got this, you know, it's— you just need someone to support you and somebody to believe in you more than you sometimes believe in yourself. And that's like a lot of what the community does, right?

So— That lady that you mentioned that called you and said, I have to go home, she took the— she had the courage to share that with you. That was huge.

Huge. Yeah.

You have such a presence. That's really— Oh, thank you. It's just so— it's an honor to be with, you know, with you and being a part of all of this. But it's just also, it's a reminder of the journey and the passion. And we do, those of us that have been around for a minute, you're just grinding sometimes and you need that kind of come up for air. Life is a little different. I feel that what, you know, you in your moments, and I want to kind of reflect on this for you, your shine bright moments in your history is that you were one of the Intuit Council Advisory Board members back in the day.

Mm-hmm.

You also were a top 100 and a top 20 firm of the future, which I think really speaks volumes to how you say you started your journey, who you are, but really you've overcome so many things and you're the prime example of what people entering this challenging space right now, because it is challenging and daunting, how to be, how to navigate. So thank you for all of these amazing things that you do. And please talk to us about your advisory board moment because that was—

Yeah.

When was that? Yeah.

So I was on Intuit Council back to 2013 to '15. We did 5 sessions that time. So, and for those that don't know about Council, it's a group that Intuit has where they pick 8, well, I think now it's 12, maybe back in the day it was 8 accountants and bookkeepers a year. And it was a 2-year term that you went to the Intuit headquarters and you got to work with the project managers and got to work with, you know, just connect with other bookkeepers and accountants. It was pretty spectacular. And so I was a big follower and still, she's still one of my best friends, Kathy Iconis, who used to do QBO Chat. And so she was on council. And so I'm like, okay, well, if Kathy was on council, then I need to be on council. And so just following other people's footsteps, right? And so I applied, I think I applied 3 years and got nothing. And I'm, you know, I'm this little bookkeeper in Chicago, like, What do I have to say to contribute? And so the last time I applied, I reached out to Doug Slater, Michelle Long, and Sandy Smith-Lava, who used to do accounting classes, who I was all friends with all of them, and just asked them to do referral letters for me. And I think it was Doug, and he's like, yeah, I don't think they do that. I'm like, no, yeah, we're going to do that. Like, that's what we're doing. And so So yeah, so I don't know if they just— Intuit just got tired of me applying or just figured they didn't want to tick off, you know, Doug and Michelle and Sandy. So they let me come be part of their council. And the coolest part— well, not the coolest part. The whole thing was amazing. And everything Intuit does at these events is just ridiculous. And so the— it was the first QuickBooks Connect. And so the band was Train. They— when they used to have a band, they don't— they haven't lately, but it was Train. And Train is my absolute favorite band. We just saw them for the 15th time this summer. So yeah, I was pretty obsessed. And so I got to meet the lead singer, Pat Monahan, in person. It was like, wait, I get to do this because I'm a bookkeeper? Like, this is great.

That's cool.

That's a cool story.

Yeah, yeah, it was tons of fun.

I love it.

We figured the line to see Ryan Reynolds at Connect this year is going to be very long. How can we get in, Sydney? Tell us a tip.

We can all write. I know. You got to get in. So that's an awesome story. Yeah, I think there's just so much magic of just putting yourself out there, showing up, and being part of these live events that are around.

And Intuit does do a phenomenal job. When you come in, I always say I felt like a queen the whole time I was there. They just treat you so well on council, and then you get to be be finding out how to help them make their product better. And, and you have to meet the people behind the product. And I think when I was there, that was the piece that I walked away with besides meeting this incredible group of people who are still my colleagues and friends today. But it was being part of something big and then meeting the people behind it, the, the developers and the people making it that don't do what we do. And then getting to talk to them and they were all like so passionate about what they did that you And it was just such a joy to see. It really was. It was amazing. Exhausting, amazing, all at the same time.

That's what I wish everyone could see that part of it. Yeah, it's true. It gets lost sometimes. But Sarah, you were talking about that passion piece of it, and I think that that's so important, that whole piece of like, what's your happy place and why are you doing what you're doing? I went to a conference recently, I think it was last year, and it was a bunch of newer bookkeepers. And I asked like, oh, what are your goals? Because we do a lot of goal stuff in BUDS also. And all of them said, I want a million-dollar business. And I was like, million-dollar business? Like, why is that your goal? And so then, yeah, I was just, I was kind of taken aback. I mean, that's not my goal. My goal is to spend as much time at Disney as possible. But to each their own, right? And so I would ask them, you know, well, how many clients do you have? Oh, I don't have a client yet. Like, so you don't even have a client and your goal is a million-dollar business. And so it was almost as if someone was telling them this or they're seeing it online or something. And I just think that there's so much in between there that you're missing out. Like for us, so I started my business in 2007 and my goal was to live at the Magic Kingdom, but quickly found out they don't actually let you live there. Just side note in case you're wanting that to be your goal. And, and so I created my business. I wanted, my goal was to create my business big enough so that my husband, who's also an accountant, could come on board and we could live anywhere. And so I was able to do that. And in 2016, snowbirded in Florida for the first time to see if I could, you know, work remotely with all the clients and all of this. And so I was here for 5, 5 weeks, I think, and clients didn't even know I was gone. And so I'm like, oh, this is really cool. And so my husband— I was at the time, I was thinking, okay, this will just be our future until he retires. And so at the end of the 5 weeks, he came back from Chicago because he was still working and to drive me home. And I said, oh, well, how do you think the snowbird adventure went? And he said, oh, you know, I'm ready to move. And so I was like, yes. Yes. And so that year we started building our house. We moved to Orlando in 2017. And then in 2020, we built a new house, which is my dream house, a house I never would dream that I could own. And we get to see Magic Kingdom fireworks from our backyard. Every single night, and we're 11 minutes from Disney property, so I can go there whenever I want. And kind of created our business to be a lifestyle business where, you know, it's me and my husband. We have one subcontractor. We kind of, you know, keep it the size that we want to be able to do the things that we want to do. And that might not be for everybody, but it's just to know that there are other options than I think you are living at Disney too.

You kind of are living at Disney if you're only 11 minutes out. Yes.

Closest you can get, right? Yes. I get a lot of—

I think it's kind of cool, Steve, you have this experience in like lifestyle business and it's such an honor to see that you drive your Airstream. I keep screwing this up.

Almost said it, Sarah, the Airbus.

I almost—

Airbus. You know what, maybe I'm supposed to get an Airbus next.

I don't know.

I think you are. I think so. Maybe you are. But I think it's pretty awesome because I know this is part 2 for you as well, Steve, but I feel like what Cindy's touched on is that magic of, okay, we could be valued. Lynda and I hear this all the time. How many clients do you have? How many users are on? How many, how many, how many, how many? Is that what we're supposed to be driving to? Are you dictating that? Absolutely. Because that works for them. That's not what's working for us. And lifestyle, and I know I'm going to enter this new space myself where it's like, well, I've got a teenager that's going to be off to college. Lifestyle is going to change, right? And so I feel like it's just such a shift. And that's where I think most of us that are that tenure really, we're learning that it's different. And we're maybe it's the generation, like the Gen Zs or the Gen X or whatever the heck we are. I can't even remember where that is. Gen X. X. The other ones are the— Yeah. Yeah, we're the X. But, um, but maybe it's part of that melding of that, those generations that are, you know, like you, you mentioned your dad worked for 40 years at the same place. That's, that's not what we're seeing anymore. Those 10-year firm owners are not going to be the way they used to be, depending even our own industry. So, oh, there goes my bubble. Anyway, Anyways, I love this conversation, but I do feel strongly that our industry, we've been at the forefront of a lot, but we're also exhausted. I mean, you're on the brink sometimes, I feel, right?

What did we learn in 2008? What did we learn after COVID? You know, and we, our industry exploded through COVID. I mean, it was so much outsourcing came our way and, you know, within the niche that we work in, which is attorneys, they just got busier. And, you know, we've created safety for people by working remotely and turning out the product for them and saving them the expenses of payroll taxes and vacations and, you know, all the benefits and all of those things. And the overhead costs of it, you know, worrying about if Sarah showed up to work on time this morning. And, you know, all that's gone. All that's gone. And we have the freedom to write our own books, our own stories here. And you are such an inspiration, Cindy, in that that you came through those periods of time. You know, you started in 2007, right when everything was starting to crash, and you're still here.

You know, so true.

The inspiration is that you, you've built two houses and you're, you're near your Disneyland and, or Disney World. And, you know, Disneyland opened the day I was born. Okay.

But I'm serious. It did. There's some magic right now.

Yeah, exactly.

But you're such an inspiration, and then, then that you've created this whole community with Bookkeeping Buds. I mean, good on you, you know. And one of my best friends who's no longer here on this earth with us always said, you know, his, his mantra was, what did I learn from this? And I think that that's what you're doing on your path is what did I learn? What can I share? Where can I help take people along on my path, on my journey? That's such an inspiration.

I love that. Absolutely.

Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful. So for you, and kind of looking ahead, I know that everything needs an evolution, a change-up. So it's— I, I understand we were part of the last one for that, um, for that retreat, but the change-up for you looking ahead, is it more I love these boutique-style kind of moments where you're going to— because I think there's something meaningful about deep diving and asking yourself, well, why would I want to do this? Or what is my true path? How can I align some of my goals? Like, I think you were mentioning somebody is now teaching Tai Chi and others are actually actively participating. Mm-hmm. Like, how can they realign or reignite these childhood things? That make them feel whole in their journey. Because life is only how many summers, right?

Yes.

Depending on what that door— that when that happens.

So yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So this was the last one of this type of retreat. I think that my goal was really to just bring people together to, to build that confidence to go to the bigger conferences. And I think that I almost feel like that's done. Like, I know there's plenty of more people out there that could benefit from it. But because our community has grown so much that I feel like when I sent out all the questionnaires before the retreat to find out what they were looking to get out of it, everybody's answer was, I just wanted to connect with the buds. Like, and so, okay, so if that's the case, then let's create an event where that's, that's what the goal is. Like, you know, no offense, we had great speakers, but maybe we don't have speakers outside or we don't have sponsors. You just have this kind of like almost like a buds reunion. And so I feel like that piece of it will continue because, you know, we do see each other at the other events and things like that, but just give them a space to kind of connect with each other. Um, and yeah, and I think these— I think the smaller events is definitely, um, what my big goal is, just because I think there is so much more transformation that can occur in those events, and it can just have such a bigger, bigger impact on that.

Yeah, that's amazing. That's wonderful. Again, you are really kind of ahead that are stewarding this change. And I do feel, I mean, Lynda and I hear it, it's the exhaustiveness. Everyone has an event right now. Everyone has something going on. Every little app is starting to do stuff like that. It's exhausting. You can't do it all, and nor do you want to, but where's the value? Where's the joy in the ones that you can participate in?

Yeah, to find the right group.

Yeah, finding the right group and aligning yourself in that is great. And building that community for yourself. I mean, it is you. You have to drive from within. You can't just show up and then like turn the camera off and not— I mean, I want to figure out how to do that magic, but, um, participate, be relevant.

Be present. Well, that's what you like— your community, right, is made up— I mean, it's a specific niche. And so tell us a little bit about your community.

Lynda?

We have a great community. So it's, we've got all different kinds of people in different various places in their journey of entrepreneurship working with lawyers. They may have one attorney client, they might not have any yet, but they're thinking about walking that path. And some of them have full-on accounting firms that are just working with lawyers. And a lot of, we talk about a variety of topics like the psychology of The psychology of attorneys to payroll, things in payroll that are difficult with working with attorneys. And it might just be for any client. There's just a lot of different topics that come up and having difficult conversations is a topic that happens. It was a really good one. We did a little role-playing sometimes. It's really good. And everybody, we get the handful that put their camera on and the handful that will be active, but it kind of ebbs and flows. People come in, people leave. Maybe they leave because they decide it's not for them. It's just interesting. But I don't even know how many people we have anymore. Sorry, I stopped counting. I'll have to have Tiara tell us that. But yeah, it's interesting. That's how we got Steve in the group. He was very active in the group and we were like, you know, we like, who is this guy? We kind of like him. So, and he's helped me facilitate meetings.

Kinda, I love him.

Yeah. I love you too.

Oh yeah, it's worked out really well. So it is interesting. Because it's different topics and it's whatever anybody wants. We try to keep it so whatever they want to, want to hear about, we'll, we'll work towards it. So, um, oh, we have 44 members. Look at that. Tierra counted.

Awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think it's just those safe spaces to ask the questions that, you know, you, you might not even know should be a question.

That's fabulous. I think the most powerful time is we have open forums so people can come in and flip the camera off and pull up their client file and we'll dig in and help them figure it out. And I think that's probably the most powerful. We do that once a month. And then we have software vendors come on too. That's software relevant to our industry or even our legal or our workflow, I guess you should say, even as a—

Our advisory. Sometimes it's the advisory side. Yeah.

So pricing, like you mentioned, giving people that value of you. Yeah. All of that. But yeah, it's been wonderful. I mean, it's, it's, I learned just as much from them as they learned from me. I really truly believe that. And it's, it's a great, great place. It really is. Yeah.

I think what I will say is just that, you know, you don't have to do it on your own. There's plenty of places out there to get help and just show up.

Just show up.

Well, I know we're all thankful for you, Cindy. We're all thankful for what you've pushed through and done, and you're the perfect example for a lot of us that are in the middle, that are starting out. Great reminder. So thank you for being the amazing you. I love you.

Thank you so much for having me. This has been great.

Absolutely.

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Well, thank you. Bye-bye, everyone. This was so much fun. Bye.