588 - From Website Shame to Website Fame with Greg Merrilees

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If you have website shame just like me, you must listen to this episode. Hello, this is Paul and welcome to the Paul Higgins show. And this is episode 588. And in this podcast I talked to a dear friend, Greg Merrilies from Studio One Design. And you're going to learn lots from Greg, but in particular three key things. One is why you should still have a website as the heart to your marketing. The second is what are the five key design principles for a website? And the last is a review of your website. A great bonus where you can go and do that. Greg Merrilies is the founder and director of Studio One Design, a world leading website design and branding agency based in Australia. But he works globally. Greg and his team are super passionate about designing really, really good websites that most importantly convert cold visitors into hot leads and sales for clients. So he really get that's the whole deal. You can watch Greg and I on YouTube and you can see how much better an iPhone looks these days than my expensive camera and lens. Go to Paul Higgins mentoring YouTube and what I'll do now is hand you over to greg merrilies from studio1design.com great to have you here, Greg.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Paul. It's awesome to catch up again, buddy.

Yeah, true. Well, I've got to say to you listening that Greg and I go way back. I think I met Greg back in 2012 through a mutual friend, James Schramko and an event that we went to. And yeah, I've enjoyed my time with Greg. Every time I've met him, we've sort of drifted apart a little. Even though we live in the same city, you can hear our accents where it's a Melbourne Australian accent Greg and I both have. But yeah, great to have you on and you know, the quality of your design's always been exceptional. I wanted to finally bring you on to help you listening or watching today. So why don't we kick off with who your ideal client is and what problems you'd love to solve for them.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. We design websites and branding for six and seven figure businesses. It could be in a range of niches as long as they predominantly use online marketing like their website lead magnets, things like that, as opposed to like an offline brick and mortar type business. And for businesses, the problems that we solve is really if they have website shame, like if their website's dated or if it's just an average design or if they designed it themselves and if it's not converting and if it's not positioning them as the trusted authority in their niche. That's what we solve with our, our website design.

Yeah. Great. And look, I think it's very few people that I meet that haven't got a website shame, you know, me included. You've built how many websites you've designed and built for people. But you know what, what's the tipping point often for people to move from shame to hero, you know, using a company like Studio Undesigned?

Well, I mean, it's, to me, it's when they start losing business to their competitors or if their sales drop and leads drop and all that. And so, yeah, realistically, I think that's the thing that probably drives it the most. And then if they just don't like the look and feel, they're not going to promote it as well. So they're not going to advertising, they're not going to promote it on social media that, you know, they're ashamed to promote it. So everything just kind of spirals down and I guess when they see the results are getting less like sales and leads, that's when they reach out and they're ready for a new one. Right.

And you know, you work with a lot of very successful coaches and I suppose in our way, you as a tech consultant, you know, you're sort of coaching your clients to implement a technology. So there are some parallels there for them. What's been the mix between socials, I. E. Their LinkedIn profile and where people go to versus their website? Because I always, you know, wonder what's the, you know, is it the chicken and the egg? Do they go to LinkedIn first? Website first? They go to both. Have you got any thoughts or any comments on that sort of mix?

Yeah, I would say like, you're like James Schramko says, own the race course, not the racehorse. And so if you think about all the social media channels, even LinkedIn, right, it's where you might find leads, but you want to bring them back to the hub, which is your website. Because at the end of the day, your website is an asset that you can sell if you do plan on exiting at some point. But realistically, LinkedIn, you know, you want your profile on LinkedIn to kind of represent what you have on your website as far as social, social proof and clearly articulate. Articulate in what you do and problems you solve. But yeah, you can't build an email list on LinkedIn. You can't get actual sales from LinkedIn unless obviously you take them through a sales call or something like that. But the point is, if you bring everyone back to your website, then you can start collecting leads and sales and you have a nurture campaign and you have various lead magnets and various things to build trust in your brand and your website's the hub, essentially.

Yeah. And look, I think that's where a lot of tech consultants, they do the easy bit, which is the LinkedIn profile. And to be honest, I read so many LinkedIn profiles and, and you know, when I first read them, it's all about them or the technology. It's like, come on, you know, let's talk about the clients that you help, what problems they got and impact and solution. Right? Yeah. That spin model that James often talks about, you know, I think it's easy to get that right, but you're dead right. Then there's a disconnect. They go to someone's profile and they're like, and I always say to people, just when did you last go and buy something? And normally it's not a service, but maybe it's just something personal. And that website is such a determinant of trust as to whether you convert or not. You know, that's definitely what I find personally. And when I, that penny drops to a lot of my tech consultants, they're like, yeah, God, like, okay, I'll be meaning to do this for so long, I've just got to go and change it. And, you know, I think the, that, you know, if you're listening and there's that broken disconnect, that's why we brought Greg on. And, you know, for you, I know you've got five key principles of what makes a successful website from a design point of view. You know, let's take, take us through the, the five and give some of your, your experience on those.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And these principles are to help, you know, transform your website into a, essentially a sales and marketing machine 24 7. So it can work when you're sleeping. Right. If you get it right. And the principles are really based around like number one would be understanding your audience. So you really need to know who you're talking to. All of the messaging on your website and all the social proof and all that needs to appeal to your target audience to understand your audience. If you're just starting out in business, I guess it's harder, but you have to kind of pick a niche and demographic and really understand who your audience is. Once you have built a little bit of an audience, what I would suggest is have some form of lead magnet that will appeal to solving those that audience's problem. And then once you've got a bit of an email list, survey them. Okay. And if you have an established business, survey your audience regardless because then you'll understand what makes them tick on a, on a deeper level, essentially because on your website the only thing they care about is what's in it for them. So that I care about you initially. They don't care about your tech stack or whatever, they just care about what's in it for them. Can you solve my problem? Right. And then how will I benefit from your offer? And do you have proof that your offer works? So by understanding your audience first, then everything else will flow from that. So that's a principle one. And then principle two would be brand positionings. You really want to study your competitors not to copy them. A lot of people do copy their competitors, which is a massive mistake. You want to zig where they're zagging. All right? So you want to be, you want to stand out from them. So your brand needs to have a uniqueness in your marketplace and it's not just the look and feel. If you think about, there's a book, Robert Cialdini's Influence. One of the principles is scarcity. And sure, he's talking about various things for scarcity and not just limited supply, limited time offer. What he's talking about really is what is unique about your business that they can't get from your competitors. The brand positioning piece is put in your usp. What makes you unique that you can't get from your competitors in the main headline so that then people will be more in influence to work with you because of that uniqueness factor. Yeah. And realistically that's just the copy, but then the look and feel, you want to make it look different to your competitors and you want to be memorable as well and you want it to reflect like the value that you offer. So for instance, if you have a high ticket item, you want the website to, you know, not look like it's cheap and nasty. And vice versa as well. If you have a low ticket item, don't make it look too expensive. It kind of needs to reflect the value of your offer. And yeah, realistically, like you don't get a second chance at a first impression. You probably heard that before. And yeah, the website is the place where people will go to check you out. If they hear about you on LinkedIn or anywhere else, they will be checking out your website. So you don't want your website to be the reason that people don't trust you and don't take you serious and don't reach out to you.

Right. Just before we go into three, because with one and two, I think I've got a question that'll cover both, but AI, right?

Yeah.

I know for me, working with my one on one clients, AI has just helped so much. We use Claude in particular. It's really helped I get to that niche and better and also understand the competitor setting. Is that helping you get information out of clients? Like is AI helping you and the client get to that quicker than maybe what it did in the past?

When we take on a new client, we deep dive. Like we asked them a bunch of questions. And for instance, if we don't get enough information, what we do is we use AI. We've got like all these agents built into our chatgpt that we use for drawing out this information, where we've got all these parameters about our business and about our client and our target market and all that sort of thing. And then we, what we do when we take a brief for the client, they answer 40 questions. Right. It's pretty painful. But then we have like a one hour strategy call and we upload the transcript and their answers to ChatGPT to one of these particular little agents and then it will draw everything that we need from it and then we can have a conversation with it to get the extra bits of information that we don't have from that particular client. Call. Yeah. So that's how we use it. Yeah.

Great. And just for those that use Claude, it's called projects. Yeah. It's different by each platform, but it's the same principle. Cool. One is around the audience, two is around the brand positioning. What's number three?

The marketing strategy. You got to think about people that come to your website. We don't know their intent. Right. They may have found you through social media, they may have found you through a blog or a podcast or whatever content you're putting out there, YouTube, et cetera. And they may just be looking for information or they may be, they may have come to you from a referral. The point is they could be cold or they could be warm. Right. So we need to have a pathway that's right for them based on their intent. We don't want to just sell on hello, assuming that everybody's going to buy because they may not be ready yet. Right, yeah. We need to cater to the cold and the warm visitors and with hold traffic. Well, what we want to do is lead with value. That's sort of the number one principle on a website, lead with value. And really that could be any type of lead magnet and you need to test a range of lead magnets. At the moment, I think we have about six various lead magnet magnets that we're testing and, but you know, you might, might only see one or two through the, the live website. The rest are through paid traffic and things like that. But the point is, you want to warm up the cold traffic. And let's say it could just be a basic PDF and it might be thinking about your audience, Paul. They might understand the tech that's needed for various clients and it might just be some form of checklist. Do you have this or that and blah, blah, blah. I'm sure, you know, your audience could think of something. And the point is you just want to offer an email address in return for that, that checklist or the PDF or whatever it is, a free video. And then you want to take them to a thank you page. And most people forget about this step. And it's really one of the most important steps in a funnel, which is to offer something else on the thank you page. Right. And it's usually another free thing, like a free strategy call, for instance, if it came from a PDF and you want to have a video on that page, I would suggest face to camera from the business owner or whoever the face of the business is. And you want to just let people know that you appreciate them downloading the free thing. Let them know you know, the value they're going to get out of that and then invite them to that next step. If it is a free strategy call, let them know how they'll benefit from that call, who it's a good fit for, who it's not a good fit for, and then, you know, given an action step to booking a time or whatever that is. But yeah, that thank you page is usually a very overlooked page and it can be super powerful for warming up those cold visitors. Yeah.

And I think the, you know, there's a general comment about you, my you know, my audience and if you've been listening to me for a long time, I talk about this and you know, quick minute on the, the soapbox. But you know, these things are tested and they're working across lots of industries, right. And the professional coaching, consulting space does it pretty well, right? What we can do is take what is working very well and then apply it to our industry. Because a lot of like, if I go to many, doesn't matter the platform, you name it, you know, it's a sea of sameness, right? And everyone has got now a boring contact me form. They're talking about, you know, how many certificates they've got of this platform they support. Like, you know, it's I go to sleep, I look at the website and I know some of you want to change that and this is a great opportunity to do that. But it's actually taking some of these tried and tested principles and applying it to your website and just making it a great experience. For example, I've been talking about changing to High Level and you know, recently I've, I've talked to five partners and the variation in the way that they approached it, but most of them just dove straight into like they wanted to show me what High Level did. And what do you want to say about High Level? I'm like, whoa, whoa, come on, step back here. Like what am I looking to achieve? All of that. But video now is so powerful and if you go to paulhigansmentoring.com video you can get a link there to what I use. And just a quick, Greg, you're using your iPhone, right? I'm using an expensive camera and lens, Greg's using his iPhone. And you know, other than Greg being better looking than me, he's also his background and everything is much better. So I think power of that thank you page and putting those videos on it and go back to your pages and check how many you got. Most tech consultant, I would say 1% of tech consultants are doing it. So this is very low hanging fruit.

Anyway, back to no worries.

Anything else? We want to finish on three before we go to four.

No, I think, yeah, just think about their intent and have different pathways for them. Don't just assume everybody's cold because if you do have a warm lead and you know, they want to book a goal, make it really easy for them to book a call, for instance, instead of putting them through a funnel. Think about that. But yeah, so principle four would be, you know, how to influence people and usually it's done like Psychologically, and we base it on Robert Cialdini's book Influence the seven psychological drivers to. To influence people to take action and realistically. And that book's for just life in general. But we apply it to websites. And I won't run through. I'll just run through what they are, but I won't explain them in detail. But it's really just reciprocity, which is really lead with value. You know, give and they will give back. Authority. You want to showcase your authority level social proof. In other words, prove that you can help people liking. So be likable consistency. So the look and feel, your messaging, wherever you show up online, just be consistent. And scarcity. We talked a little bit about that before. Limited time, offer seats and you know, what is unique about you. And then unity, which is really just having a shared identity, which is the latest principle he added to his book. It used to be six, it's now seven. Realistically, what we want to do with those things is like that's just the overview of those psychological drivers. But then we mix that in with the principles from another book, which is Spin Selling by Neil Rackham. And I'll just explain that because this is important not just for your website pages, but also for your video structure, which is a really powerful framework, which is an acronym spin. So what it means is if you have on your website and in the video letting people know that you understand s the situation that they're in, right? And then p the problems that they face because of the situation they're in. And then I. Which is the implication if they don't address the cause of the problem, if they don't change anything. And then N is the need, which is essentially your solution to that problem. What is unique about your solution to help solve that problem? So that's an acronym that you want to put on your main web page, whether it's the homepage or your, you know, your service page or your videos. It's a really good structure using spin selling. And realistically, because like we said earlier, they only care about what's in it for them. Right. So when you let people know that you understand their situation, their problems and they feel like you're talking directly to them, which is super powerful. And that's why, yeah, Spin Selling, which is a book Based on Neil Rackham's 35,000 interviews of sales calls, is super powerful. It really works.

Totally agree. And I think it relates back to number one, right. Which is the niche. It's very hard to do spin if you've got 10 different customer types or you're trying to go for everyone, right? So that's why number one is so powerful. If you get that niche or niche right, then it makes it so much easier to talk to them. There's so many examples. I recently did a webinar and you know, someone was every, they're a Monday partner, every lead that Monday did and they're like, I'm completely confused, I don't know how to market. I'm like, yeah, because you're trying to be all things, all people. So now she is only legal practices. I've got another Zoho partner I'm working with at the moment is only doing people that do wills, right. So they're very specific. So then it makes it easy to use the spin, the spin formula. But look, I think you should use spin in everything. Put it in a sticky note on your computer and everything you go to do emails, every communication you know should follow that principle. I think it's a brilliant one. We've covered audience brand positioning, the marketing strategy, influence. So what's number five?

Lastly is conversion focus design. Sure it's nice to have a good looking website, but you can go to, you know, Fiverr or anywhere to get like a design that looks good but most of them won't understand it needs to be conversion focused because at the end of the day you want to get a result from your website, it is an investment, wanna make sure that it does drive more leads and sales. So therefore it's all those other four principles that we just mentioned rolled into the right visual hierarchy. Like all of the elements need to be cohesive. We need to position the copywriting as the hero and then the design needs to enhance that copywriting. Essentially we don't want to overpower, we don't want there to be too much copy on the page either because people don't read all of it, they just scan and stop at headlines and things like that. But you also don't want there to be too little copy because copy will help influence them, especially if you use that spin selling framework. And so therefore you just need to get the balance right of the right amount of copy. And it also you have to think about SEO as well. So if you don't have much copy, a lot of e commerce brands do this, they don't have enough copy and if they're not a massive brand name, they struggle to rank basically because there's not enough copy for Google to read. So just make sure you don't be too clever with Your design and copy. And don't use jargon and all that sort of stuff, just keep it really clear because clarity beats clever every time. And same with your design. Don't have all these parallax effects and crazy things moving all over the place when you scroll. And animation and video backgrounds and image sliders, all that stuff will kill your conversion. So it just needs to be static. And we need. You can have some things move if it's drawing attention on things like what we call impact metrics or social proof. Yeah. But don't have anything else moving in the background. Cause it takes your eyes off the important elements.

Yeah, look, I couldn't agree. And I was going to ask you something. You know, what are some of the faux pas that you see? You've seen so many websites, but that one of the scrolling that's got me straight away, I'm like now like I'm trying to read and it's, you know, whoever invented that? No, great. So we've got these five principles, right?

Yeah.

So I think the. What you teach your clients is effectively the message I'm going to give here. So what you teach your clients is, yes, you could go and set up Zoho Monday, whatever yourself. And you know that you've got clients that do that and they get into an absolute mess and then they come back to you and say, hey, could you help me fix this mess? Right. I think if you're really serious about getting to that, as Greg said, the six to seven figures. But if you're really looking to make that next step, you know, this really matters. Right. It is one of the most important assets you've got in your business. And we get a bit drifted by social and, you know, YouTube and other things. But ultimately this is your home. This is where everyone comes. And if you're not comfortable that, you know, if you were buying from your yourself and you're not comfortable that you've got the right message, et cetera, reach out to someone like Greg in particular. And Greg's got a great offer at the end that will help you assess your website that he'll share. But reach out to Greg and get some help because, yes, you can do it yourself. And you, you know, there's a lot of talk about it at the moment, there's a lot of tools out there at the moment saying, you know, it's the quick silver bullet. You know, you can build a website in, you know, 15 minutes and blah, blah, blah. But it's all the thinking and experience. Greg has built so many Websites. Now he helps draw out the right questions to get the right answers to help you really make a high converting website. And that makes a difference. And I'm speaking to myself here, right, because I need to do it myself. And it's always something like I'll do it, I'll just get a few more deals done. And I never think about, well, maybe I'd be getting more deals done if I actually have my website. Right. AI is the, you know, it's the talk of the town at the moment and it will be for a long time and I think it, you know, we're lucky to be alive in this, in this massive change. But as I said, there's lots of tools out there where people say, you know, 15 minutes, whatever, you know, what are you seeing in this space firstly and where's it what the pros of that and what are maybe some of the cons that us as novices would miss?

Yeah, absolutely. And look, I think it's certainly a space that is evolving. Like AI in general is incredible when it comes to websites. I think it's really good at copy writing if you, you know, if you train your agent or what's the other projects? The projects. Thank you. Yeah, if you train it, you can get some really good copy if you've got some good frameworks to follow as well. But when it comes to the actual design side of it, there's obviously a lot that goes into it and I've, and I'm constantly looking at AI builders to see, you know, can they save us time and are they good enough yet? Now they are good for a certain niche, a certain sort of area, let's say more startups I think are really good. If you think about before AI there were always template marketplaces for websites, right. And I feel like this is just replacing them. I don't think it's good enough yet to replace a full conversion focus custom website design. And the only reason I say that is because it still uses stock imagery like that. It'll just generate very stock looking imagery from, from the AI image generator that's built into these LLMs and, but the layouts as well are very template. Like everything that I've seen, like the one that you showed me, Paul, and the other ones that I've checked out, they essentially just start with a template and then they'll customize it based on your input into it. But I haven't seen anything yet and I honest, I look every week and I look at reviews and look at my peers in the industry. Nobody's seen anything yet that is, you know, worthwhile for an established business. Like I said, good for startups. But if you're established and you want to be seen as an industry in your, in your niche, then, yeah, probably wait a couple of years. Yeah.

And think about this, right? We don't spend a lot of time because AI solution to website build or design is not going to replace our business. Right. So for us it's not that important, but for Greg, it's critical. If Greg's watching it and Greg is, you know, thinking of it as a major competitor's business and he's ahead of the curve, you know, that's where we should take our knowledge from rather than some of the social media posts and, and other stuff that you get, which, you know, it's not going to, you know, take their livelihood away. So I think that's really powerful and like you said, it's really good if you're just starting a hobby business or something like that. I think that's fantastic.

Yeah.

But, you know, there's a lot more to it than just design. And that's what I love about Greg's team, is he does both the design and the build, and they do that together. You know, the last question I've got is around using a template versus a custom. You know, if you give maybe a couple of quick examples where someone's moved from, you know, something that they've done on WordPress, a template, a theme versus custom, and what's been the key reasons they've stayed with the custom.

Yeah. So I guess one of the top of my head is a client that we had. It's sackschoolonline.com he has a membership where he teaches people how to play the sax, for instance. Right. And he. Yeah, and he did the website himself and he thought it looked fantastic. And, you know, he's a seasoned marketer. He probably had at that point, I don't know, maybe 5 million YouTube visitors and he's now got a lot more. But the point is he thought that his website was great and he used to get decent conversions from it. But that's because he had such a large audience on YouTube, he was reluctant to change to a full custom website by custom. It's still WordPress and it's still built using, like the Elementor page builder. So when we hand it back to a client, it's really easy for them to make changes and updates and add pages and blogs and whatever podcasts, you name it. And so then we went to the custom Website design. And then like since the website went live, we added over a thousand new students to our paid membership and the rate of uptake on the free introductory offer that boosted our mail enlist by over 25,000 people. And yeah, he says he would never go back, that's just one example. But yeah, like he thought it was good enough but when he had a proper conversion focused design, it just changed everything in his business and now pretty much is the CEO and he has other people teaching the sax, so it's really helped him.

Yeah, yeah. And I'll just remind you that, you know, Greg and I are Australians. We live in Melbourne but we're global citizens. So, you know, both of us work, you know, majority of my clients are in, in North America and you know, Greg does a lot of work around the world. Don't be fooled by accent what you're listening to here is Greg who's one of the, you know, the best design and builders of websites in the world. What we're going to do is just pause and thank our sponsors and then we'll come back to the rapid fire questions.

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So Greg, it's been, you know, thoroughly engaging but now I'm going to ask you just for simple, quick answers to these four questions. So the first one is what are some of the daily habits to help you build Studio One design?

Okay, well, for a start, I put a lot of value on sleep and health. So I actually sleep eight to nine hours a night and I exercise daily, go to the gym three times a week because I feel like if you've got a healthy body and mind, you can just put so much more energy into your day. And that's one. And then the other thing is I have a daily call every morning with my general manager and we go over all of our sales figures. And we review all of our leads in our sales pipeline. So that's. Yeah, that's pretty much it. That's the main three things.

Brilliant. And where do you go to find more about not just websites, but building Studio One Design?

Yeah. Podcasts and books, audio books mainly, I guess recently, you know, Magnetic Marketing, Dan Kennedy, never split the difference, which is Chris Voss. I think that's a great one, just for understanding how people think. Built to Sell, John Warillo, Geno Wickman's Traction, profit first, Mike McCulloch's, that sort of thing. But podcasts, Yeah, I love your podcast now. I've listened to eight episodes. I think it's great. So I'll keep listening even though I'm not the target audience. You've got some good lessons in there. But, yeah, Alex Hormozi, Dan Sullivan, I love Peter Diamondis, which is kind of the future where AI and all that stuff's heading. Yeah. Gary Vee, James Schramko, Joe Polish, things like that, you know.

Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, fantastic. And, you know, a lot of this is. Is free for you to tap into, which is brilliant. Next one is, or you grant you one wish for Studio One Design. What would that be?

I reckon if you could get me more exposure instantly without doing all the effort on social, that would be awesome.

And the last one is, you know, you've done lots and lots of websites over the years and very good ones. But what's something you know now that you wish you had known earlier about website design?

That website design, I think it's more about getting traffic to your website because we offer a conversion optimization service, which is great, and you can boost the amount of leads and sales that you'll get through your website, but it probably only increase it by 20 or 30% if you're lucky. Right. But if you can do more marketing offline to drive traffic to your website, I feel like, you know, that could boost your leads and sales by 50% or more. Yeah. I feel like that's the biggest thing that can move the needle. Just get more traffic, do more marketing and bring traffic to your hub, the.

Website and the quality traffic, which is because you picked a niche or a niche. So, yeah, perfect, Greg, as I said, it's got a fantastic offer. So go to studio1design.com forward slash Paul, and there's 50 step quiz and what it does is produces a report and then it'll show you the areas to improve across those five key principles that Greg's gone through today. But Greg, it's always great to catch up. But today I'm really glad that others like you have dropped our ear, dropped into the conversation and got enormous benefits. So thanks for coming on today, Greg.

Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening.

What a great interview with Greg. He gave lots of value and reach out to him on LinkedIn. Say that you heard him on the show and ask him any specific questions. As you can tell, he's a great guy, really open to help and also share it with your peers because I'm sure that a few of your peers have also got website shame. Probably not the ones that are in your own network, but someone that serves a very different niche to you. Go and watch the episode on YouTube and see how his iPhone out there performs my expensive camera. But also go and get that 50 point checklist which will really help you improve your website. And he'll, you know, it'll spit out where the gaps are so that you can improve Studio 1. So it's the number, the numeral1studio1design.com Paul the link will be in the show notes. See you next time on the Paul Higgins Show.

Time for action. Let me know what you implemented from the show. I promise to respond. Plus get the tech consultants roadmap at paulhigginsmentoring.com forward slash roadmap.