From Shy Introvert to Influential Tester with Raj Subrameyer

I originally come from the southern part of India from a place called Chennai and I grew up as a really shy, introverted kid right then. This kind of continued throughout my childhood and until my second year of my undergrad. And then I had this awakening moment which I tell in detail in my book and a lot of my other talks as well. But the summary is I came to a realization that I was selling myself short, I was letting other people's opinions be my reality and I was not believing in my own skill sets. And since then Fast forwarding to 2023, I've taken gradual steps to try out so many different things, figure out what my passion is, what value it bring to people.

Get ready to discover the most actionable end to end automation advice for some of the smartest testers on the planet. Hey, I'm Joe Ko Antonio, host of the Test Guild Automation Podcast and my goal is to help you succeed with creating automation awesomeness.

Hey it's Joe and welcome to another episode of the Test Guild Automation Podcast and today we'll be talking with Raj all about leadership and growth for testers. I actually finally got to met Raj in person at QA or the highway and he gave a fantastic keynote on how to approach your tech career with an entrepreneurial mindset. So I did want to dive into those type of topics, but he also has hands on experience running teams and building them from the ground up. So really excited to have him on the show. If you don't know, Raj is a Senior QA Manager, ICF Certified Tech Career and Leadership Coach, international speaker and author. He's the author of this book Skyrocket yout Career. If you don't have it, definitely get it. Awesome book and he has spent decades leading teams in huge organizations and startup companies. He has over 200 hours and 100 clients worth of coaching experience. So he knows his stuff all the way from mid senior level and C suite executives to overcome their struggles, facing obstacles and navigating their career path and how to deal with the insecurities to become influential leaders. And this is more important now than ever, especially in the testing space. He also specializes in using his experience and strategies backed by neuroscience to guide professionals to maximize their opportunities and discover their zone of genius. I could go on and on. He also has given multiple TEDx talks and is a sought after speaker at various conferences. Like I said, we finally met face to face at QA the Highway. There's a bunch of different things he's spoken at, but like I said, definitely check out his book after this podcast, I'll have a link to it in the show notes and really excited to have Raj back on. If you really want to skyrocket your career and really take on more of a leadership role in testing, how to better your career, whatever, and also some tips on starting maybe QA from the ground up or testing from the ground up. This is the episode for you. You don't want to miss it. Check it out.

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Hey, Raj, welcome back to the Guild.

Hey, thanks for having me. Super excited to be here.

Really excited to have you. As I said, we finally got to meet face to face at QA the Highway. You gave an excellent keynote and I thought we'd dive into those. But before we do, Raj, really curious to know, for people that haven't heard our previous podcast episodes, maybe take us on a little journey of where you started, like how you became this influencer and where you found out a lot of the topics and a lot of the key points. We're going to pull out of this podcast to show people how they become leaders and use more of an entrepreneurial mindset within their careers.

Yeah, let's set some context for your listeners and viewers as well. So right now, if you see me, people think, man, he's giving all these stocks and, you know, he doesn't have fear of speaking. But I didn't start off that way. So. I originally come from the southern part of India from a place called Chennai. And I grew up as a really shy, introverted kid, right. And even like talking to a girl, but feel like I'm going to get a nervous breakdown. So I was that kind of wreck. And then this kind of continued throughout my childhood and until my second year of my undergrad. And then I had this awakening moment which I tell in detail in my book and a lot of my other talks as well. But the summary is I came to a realization that I was selling myself short. I was letting other people's opinions be my reality and I was not believing in my own skill set. So this was way back when I was 20 and then I decided, you know what, I hate being like this. I need to make a change. And since then, Fast forwarding to 2023, I've taken gradual steps to try out so many different things, figure out what my passion is, what value I bring to people. And that's what has gotten me into all these things, the aesthetic, stocks, books, and then working for startups and stuff like that. So that's kind of very fast, high level overview of how my life transitioned from a shy, introverted kid into who I am today and helping a lot of people.

Awesome. So why do you think that's important for people listening? Do you think that a lot of people still struggle with where you may have struggled with? Or have you seen. I know you've coached a lot of people. What is maybe the number one thing that is blocking people from achieving some of the success that you've had?

I think the number one problem, which I've seen based on my personal experience and coaching a lot of other folks as well, is that people let other people's identity define who they are. So what do I mean by that? So when you're growing up, you know there's always going to be people around you saying, hey, you have to become a tester, you have to become the developer. You know what, Masters is a really good thing for you. So you have people around you saying what's good for you instead of you thinking about, okay, what is actually good for yourself based on your skillsets and your interests. Right? So people pay attention to the noise around them and what happens is they try different things without even thinking about whether it's the right thing for them to do. And I think that's the number one problem which I see in people. And that's why the people I coach are also who I label as the underdogs, where the society has labeled them as not good enough and they don't matter. But then I prove to them that they have the skill sets and then amplify their skill sets. Right. So that's what I do and that's what my purpose is. So coming back to your question, I think the number one thing is that belief system and letting other people's opinion, you know, impact you. So if you start to cognizantly, you know, trying to make your own decisions instead of thinking about what other people need from you, that's when the real transformation happens.

So, Roger, what'd you say about the saying it's popular. Follow your passion. Do you believe it's follow your Passion or is it get good at something that. And because you're good at it, it becomes your passion? Because obviously what I'm doing wasn't my passion when I started. But over time I'm like, oh, I'm confident at this. I am passionate about it. What do you see? Is it passion first or is it competency first which then leads to passion?

For me, more than that, I think it's the first thing is being open to opportunities, right? Being open to things. I think that's where it starts when you're open to trying out different things. Some things are going to work out, some things are not going to work out, but either way you're going to learn something and then it opens the doors for other opportunities and then you learn other things. And that's how literally your career and my career have been like that. For example, I started off as a developer, then a tester, then I've been a developer evangelist and I've been a consultant and then, you know, a speaker even. I didn't set out to be a speaker or author, but then I was open to opportunities. When you're open to opportunities, then you figure out what you're passionate about and your passion actually changes based on the season. So every two years or three years when you see another opportunity, then you'll become passionate about something else. And that's how life is. So start with being open minded, number one. Then you become passionate about something and once you're passionate about something, then you have to be competent enough to actually do that. And that's when you try to become the expert in that particular field with so many resources and things you could do, which we could always talk about. And that's kind of the full circle. And it's a never ending journey. Always being open minded and then being passionate and then being competent. So it's like a loop throughout your life.

Nice. How do you know how open you should be? Is it fear? Is fear a good indicator you probably should be doing it? Because I was like, as we said, I gave the first keynote I ever did. I created the Highway. My first thing was like, say no, say no, say no, say no. I said, I'll just do it because I've never done it. And that fear, a lot of times people say, oh, trust your fear and go with it. What are your thoughts? You could be open to everything. But how do you know this is right for me at this point in time?

You know, the funny thing is you don't know what you don't know, right so for example, I never knew that I could give a TEDx talk where you have to memorize 15 minutes of words and you have to use all these complicated works which actually hits to people's emotions and stuff. I never knew I was capable of that. But then when you start preparing for it, that's when you start realizing whether you know it's a good fit or not. This how life is, right? So in the sense, from point A you go to point B. If point B works out, then you go to point C. If point C doesn't work out, then come back to point B, then Now go to C1, C2. So that's how it is. It's like a tree structure. That's what I would say. And you never know what, you don't know that. So my advice, based on my experience would be, is take small, small steps to push yourself out of your comfort zone. Right. Only when you do that, you find out different opportunities which can level up your career and your personal life as well. Again, small, small steps. You don't have to do drastic changes in your life. And then once you make a small step, that's when you know, you realize what your true potential is. This is what I tell people. There's a beauty in becoming uncomfortable to get comfortable. There's a beauty in getting uncomfortable to get comfortable. And that's what we need to think about. And use fear as a fuel to drive you instead of something which consumes you. I know it's easier said than done, but it just takes practice. You know, it starts with one thing. Then if you continuously start training your mind this way, then fear will help drive you instead of consuming you and being an obstacle for your growth.

Absolutely. I love it. And as being testers, I guess you could treat your life like exploratory testing where you run these little tests, you get feedback and say, oh, okay, maybe that didn't work. That was flaky. Let me go with the test that's giving me more positive results or something. I don't know.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Exactly. So you focus on one thing, learn about it, and then you, then you get ideas for other things you want to do. Right? It's the exact same thing. Life is like that. It's not something written on paper. And then you follow it verbatim. It's. If you put a graph, it's like the zigzag graph. It's not like a straight upward line here of career growth. And, and no one in the history of, you know, corporate world or testing world or developed world has a, I believe have. Has a straight upward growth line like this. It's like zigzag, zigzag, zigzag. But then you learn from your experiences. So that's what we need to keep in mind. People think that. I think one of the problems is problems is that we live in this society where perfectionism is actually overhyped. And then people think, okay, I'm not going to do this until it's perfect. But the truth to be told, you're never going to be perfect. There's this fine line between perfectionism and obsession, right? So you really need to figure out what that line is and try something. And also remember, no one actually cares what you do because everyone thinks you're Jeff Bezos. And then each step you take, the whole entire world is going to want you. But once you actually train your mind to think that, you know what, this is what I can put out to the world, and people take it as it is, and then you live with the consequences. So when you think like that and when you do things for your own belief system, for your own value system, that's when you'll see the real impact. Don't do things just because other people are saying, and no one is actually watching every step you take because every person has problems in their own lives and they're focusing on themselves. So you're not the diva here, right? So that's why I tell people, because this, especially if you put in more tester perspective. One of the things I often get is, hey, I'm really scared to make a LinkedIn post to us and then connect on LinkedIn and grow my network. Then my next question is, so why are you scared of just making any post? Anything you want to share? What would people think? That's the immediate response. Who cares what people think? Okay, first thing is, he's not Jeff Bezos. Second thing is, who cares what people think? In the sense you put out what you think and then people, no matter what you do, there are always going to be people who are going to take something positively and something negatively. You can never please everyone. So you just do your part and then let the results follow. And then you are not in control of that. You are only in control of putting out your work to the outside world, right? So that's what I tell people. Don't care about what other people think. You believe in yourself and take small, small steps towards positive change.

Great advice. So in your presentation, it was called how to approach a Tech career with an Entrepreneurial mindset. I always ask this for speakers after your session. I've noticed people came up to you and talked to you. Was there some key takeaways that people really gravitated towards saying, wow, that was a key point. I really latched onto that. Or that really helped me.

Yeah, thanks for bringing that up because I think this is a really useful thing for people to hear. So just to give some. Set, some context. So my keynote was about how the different strategies I used to grow in my testing, testing career were literally the same strategies I used to become a successful entrepreneur, right? And literally anyone can follow the strategies to level up their career, whether they have a 9 to 5 job, whether they're a consultant, whether they have a business owner, it doesn't matter. So there are commonalities in terms of the strategies you can use to grow. And that's what TAQ was about. And I think it hit people hard in terms of, because I went real, I gave them actionable tips and strategies. But I talked about several strategies. But some of the key things which resonated with people was, first thing is building credibility, right? So say, for example, I have this product, or say, for example, I have this awesome gadget which can help paint walls or something, right? You have this gun kind of thing and then you can paint walls, right? And it's magical, amazing. And then I say, hey, please buy this product, please buy this product. I'm not going to buy your product because you haven't actually told me why I should buy it. Second thing is you haven't established that credibility for me to trust you, right? And what value have you brought for me to actually take you seriously? So here there are three things, right? First thing is building credibility. And then once you build credibility, then you build trust. Then once you build actually first credibility, then you build value and then you build trust, right? So these three are the key, irrespective of what you do. And since here our audience are mainly like testers and people in the tech space. So to put in more context, say you're working at a company, the first thing you need to do is think about, how do I establish credibility, how do I make people take me seriously? And there's so many ways to do this. So, for example, when I was working at a company, this was about 15, 16 years ago, there was like 200 rows, there was an Excel sheet with 200 rows. And then they were doing a lot of stuff manually, which was consuming like three to four hours of time. And then I noticed this, and then I just built a macro and VB script. I don't know whether people even remember what VBScript is, but the point is you write that with an Excel macros and then I automated the whole process and then a four hour process took like say 15 minutes. Now that is, once I did that, that increased my credibility because I saved so much time for people. And now since I built credibility, I got more responsibilities. And then I started offering value by doing lunch and learn sessions, by helping other non technical folks write, automation and then helping things which are out of my job description as well. So now I built credibility, I've given value and now people trust me so I get more bigger responsibilities. And that's why I've been star performer within six out of eight companies. And trust me, I'm a really average dude. If I can do it, so can you. So just so to summarize, so those were kind of the main three key takeaways. Credibility, then offering value, building trust. If you have those three key things, your career will definitely skyrocket. Trust me on that. And of course I also discuss other strategies like how to build your personal brand, how you want to become the expert, and so on and so forth. But the crux of the talk was these things which I just mentioned.

All right, so let's apply this to the real world. Raj, you know, we had a bear or so at the. I forgot the name of the place, but you were talking about how you had a new gig where you were starting a QA group or a testing group from the ground up. Now do you actually encourage them to build credibility, build value and build trust? Did you have like a framework you actually walk your team through, or is it more like how does that work?

I guess so here. It's a really good question. I think there are multiple things to pick apart here, right? Number one is how do you build like a QA team from ground up? What are some strategies? Second thing is, once you build a team, how do you make sure like each of the team members can build the three pillars, the credibility, value proposition, and trust. Right, so let's divide this into two parts. So let's go to the first part is how do you build a team from ground up? First thing is, yes, it is hard. But here are some actionable strategies for anyone you know who say you join a new project and you're tasked with this, like building a QA team or a QA process, or if you join a startup company which doesn't have any QA team, here are some Things you want to think about. First thing is, what is the cost? Time, which is allocated for you to do your job. Right? So what I mean by that is, say whether you have four months time to build a QA team, you have six months time to build a QA team, and how much money you actually have to build a QA team, right? If they give you $10, it's probably not even enough for a Starbucks coffee, right? So then there's no point talking about building a QA team if you're getting $750,000 as a budget. Okay, now we are talking. So that's. I know it's a very oversimplified and exaggerated example, but I'm just trying to hit the point here, right? So first thing is, think about what's the cost, what's the money you have, you know, and what timeline do you have? Okay, Number one, Number two is what are the needs of the company currently? So, for example, the company I was working at, they really wanted to build automation, and then they wanted more resources to do manual testing as well. So they were looking at both manual and automated testing. So I had to hit both points, manual and automation. So that's the second thing, which is, what are the needs? You got to figure that out. Then you figure out what type of Persona you need, right? Like how many based on the budget, like how many resources you can actually hire. Say, for example, for $500,000, you get, say, five resources you can hire. Right? Even that is actually I'm overvaluing it. Probably you'll get only four. But the point is, say you get only five resources. Okay, now we have budget for five resources. How many of them you want to do automation? How many of them are going to do manual testing? What's your vision for the QA team? Right? So that's the next thing you want to think about. And then you would start interviewing and hire these folks. Then you want to definitely talk to them about how their work actually aligns with company goals, right? So, for example, if you're able to reduce production defects from, say, 20 bugs every release to two bugs every release, then how does it hit the revenue goal of the company? Right? So that's an example. So once you actually clearly articulate the why behind why they're doing what they're doing from a testing standpoint, then people get more interested in their work, right? And then you start coming up with strategies. Okay, in terms of this amount of time, what tools I have to do use, and for manual testing, what tools I'VE used for automated testing, so on and so forth. But that's kind of the usual thing which I've done in so many companies. And it definitely works. So something to think about. So that is, number one, right? Building a QA team from ground up. And what are some things you want to think about? The second part was, okay, how do you establish credibility? How does the team establish its credibility? That's where I think as a leader, as a manager of the team, it's your, the person who's leading the team is their job to really help in this effort. Because this is the thing in mid tier companies or even startup companies, right? The VP of engineering or the director of qa and say you're a QA manager and director of qa, they don't have time to, you know, figure out what each and every individual in the team is actually doing. So you, as a manager, it's your responsibility to highlight those things in your weekly status report or weekly stand up meetings to the leadership. So you would say, for example, hey, Rob, there was a production issue and Rob actually worked at extra hours and really helped to make sure the product was stable and we were able to release it on time for our biggest customer. Just that one sentence now has, you know, established Rob's credibility to people. Right? And then people start noticing, okay, you know, Rob is a credible resource we can always trust. Because what I'm coming at here is as a manager, you really have to care for your team and you also have to look into their career and personal development as well. And one way to do that is to ensure that you be the amplifier or the speaker who amplifies each one's work. And that's how they start establishing credibility, trust. And also they offer, keep offering value. That is one aspect. Another aspect is, yes, each team member individually, they need to figure out, okay, what are the problems currently people are facing from a testing standpoint, development standpoint, what is the smallest thing I could do to make at least a one person difference? Right? Start think. If you're an individual contributor and not a manager, that's how you want to start thinking in the sense what is the smallest thing I could do to move the needle forward? And that by itself is enough. You don't have to launch a racket, you just have do something simple which people actually recognize and remember. So that's what it's all about.

Love it. So you also talked about how to build your personal brand. So you mentioned that you had to hire people. So what are some steps someone could have done with their personal brand so that when you were hiring, they would have jumped up onto your radar. Like, how would you. Could we tie that in somehow? Like, oh, if someone did this, as I told them how, how to build your personal brand when I was hiring, you would have been found by me or something like that.

I think in our previous episode, we actually delve a lot into this. And because I'm a person who keeps echoing this, your personal brand is the thing which is going to set you apart from the competition. Especially in this day and age at this time where, you know, getting jobs are hard and there've been a lot of layoffs, what is going to make you stand out from thousands of other people who are applying for the same job? That's where the personal brand comes into picture. Now, putting in the context, for example, so when I was hiring, when people submit resumes, immediately I go to their LinkedIn profile, you know, and I see how active they are, whether they're doing any contribution to the testing community, whether they're speaking at conferences or even commenting on people's posts. Do they have any LinkedIn article? Do they have a GitHub project? Have they talked about something they're doing? These are things. And trust me, it's not only me. A lot of other folks actually do this. They actually looked at your LinkedIn profile. Some people even look at the Facebook profile to make sure you're not a weirdo or someone. But I actually do not use Facebook that much. But yeah, LinkedIn is where I live, so. So it helps me paint, you know, paint a picture of the candidate, like, who is this person? What drives them kind of. Right? And say there are two candidates who apply for, say, a senior QA engineer job, which I was actually hiring for one person. Both people have, say, for example, master's in computer science. Right? But if this one, if person A, say person A and person B, if person A has shown interest in acquiring new skills or attending conferences or sharing what they learn to the community, they going to stand out from person B, who literally has the same skill set but hasn't gotten involved with the community. Right. Community is key, and that's how you build your network as well. So there you go in the sense in general why you want to build your personal brand. And also, say, for example, when I was looking to hire people, I was actually looking at the LinkedIn profiles as well. Here are three quick things. In case you didn't listen to our first episode I did with Joe where I talked about personal brand Here are three quick things you could do, right? First thing is make sure you start posting on LinkedIn. And again, when I say start posting on LinkedIn, people think you have to post seven times a week. No, it's all about consistency and not intensity. So what do I mean by that is you have to post the same time that particular day every week. So start with say one post per week or two, two posts per week, say Monday and Friday. And it could be even a three line post, okay. And it could be about, okay, shift left testing or test automation or whatever you want to actually share with the outside world. Okay? Start with that and be consistent for over one to two months. And then people start noticing you. Second, every week have a goal of making five LinkedIn connections, authentic LinkedIn connections. So what I mean by that is connect with someone who inspires you, whose content you really like. Make that authentic connection. So five connections per week. And third thing you definitely want to do is apart from just posting, try to comment on other people's posts as well. Because say, for example, I have close to 7,000 followers on LinkedIn, right? So when you comment on a post I make, right, then I actually notice that you made a post, I mean, made a comment. My followers now start looking at you and then you funnel my followers into, you know, what you do. So it's a whole link I can talk about LinkedIn algorithm and stuff. That's a whole different conversation. But the three quick things which you could do is what I just mentioned, which is start posting on LinkedIn consistently and then file LinkedIn connections per week and start commenting on people's LinkedIn posts. And that's it you have to do to start building a personal brand. In fact, the last five jobs I've got was actually from LinkedIn. So make jobs actually come to you instead of you actually looking for jobs. So you have to change the narrative.

100% agree with those approaches for sure. So here's a question out of left field just popped in my head. AI. I don't think we ever talked about AI. So with all the things you've talked about with personal branding, entrepreneurial mindset in the age of AI, is it less important or more important now to have a personal brand or think of an entrepreneurial mindset? I don't know if that makes sense, but does AI replace any of that or is it now because of AI, we need to stand out even more, or does it not matter at all?

First of all, AI definitely matters, and I think AI is not a replacement. But it's something complementary to what testers do. It's just like automation. So you do automation to automate repetitive tasks, which consumes a lot of time. Then say you have a CI CD pipeline, you have some automated tests running before code gets checked in to make sure they're stable. But it really helps save time and get quicker feedback, right? AI is the same way. I think it's something which you could use complement to what you're actually doing, right? Talking about AI. So remember I was talking about LinkedIn posts. Literally you can use ChatGPT and say, hey, here are my thoughts which I want to share. Can you make it into a LinkedIn post and make it inspirational, right? So now you're training the generative AI world we are living in right now. So ChatGPT, for example, then will generate a LinkedIn post. So there's no excuse for not actually posting on LinkedIn right now because when I was trying to build my personal brand, everything was manually done. But right now you have ChatGPT, which literally can generate messages based on what you're thinking. So there is a simple, quick example of how AI actually aids testers and even in automation as well. There are a lot of tools, AI based automation tools. What they're basically doing is say, for example, you have a webpage and you have a username password, say if you're using the Selenium framework. And of course Selenium has more advancements right now, but usually they follow a single location strategy, which is they use a single attribute to locate an element. So for example, for username field, they may use the ID property and then locate the username. But if someone comes and changes the ID property from name to say, Raj, then it's going to fail, right? So that's called static location strategy, where you're using one attribute to locate a particular element. But now with the AI and all these tools which are coming up or have come up already, they extract every single attribute of that username field. So even if the ID attribute changes, it immediately go to the name attribute. If the name attribute changes, immediately go to the class attribute and the tag attribute and then still it'll run through all the attribute it's collected, extract it, and then still hit the username field, right? And it saves you a lot of time from a maintenance standpoint. So that is an example from a testing standpoint how AI actually helps. So yeah, AI is definitely something which is going to be really helpful and we as testers need to figure out different ways we could use it. In fact, it's funny you just asked about AI, because yesterday I was thinking about using generative AI for generating test cases. And what are some scenarios where I would actually use them? Right. So, for example, when I was working at Expedia, the travel booking company, I was heading the mobile iOS testing team there, we had to test in four different browser versions, five different operating system versions, and then 10 different types of devices, three types of rendering engines. So the combination is like literally thousands of combinations, which is impossible within a day. Then we used a concept of combinatorial testing, where we had tools like the Microsoft Pick tool and All Pairs tool, which helps to reduce our number of data sets to hit the maximum possible combination. Right. That was then. Now, maybe generative AI could do that, saying, hey, I have these browser combinations, these operating system versions give me the optimal amount of data sets, which I have to hit to get good coverage. I'm 99% sure I haven't tested it yet. And literally, I was thinking about it yesterday. I'm pretty sure ChatGPT would give you some information. Right. So that's how we need to start thinking. How can we use ChatGPT to make our lives better? And of course, always wear your skeptic hand. I mean, hat. You don't want to believe it verbatim, Right. But the point is, it really, really helps to move the needle and get you closer to where you want to be.

I agree with you 100%. Okay, Raj, before we go, is there one piece of actual advice you can give to someone to help them with their entrepreneurial testing efforts, and what's the best way to find or contact you?

Sure. So there's the saying which I often use is, happiness comes through good judgment. Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment. Right. So happiness comes through good judgment, Good judgment comes through experience, and experience comes through bad judgment. So what I'm coming to say here is don't be afraid to make mistakes. When you try new things, you are going to fail probably more than half the time, and that's life. But you're going to learn from it, and it takes you one step closer to other opportunities which are going to give you more passion, more value, and more happiness in your work. So that's how I try to run my life, and that is something you want to think about as well. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. So that is being my one piece of advice for people as a takeaway and where you can find me. So there are two ways to find me. One, is you can go to my website rajsubra.com R A J S U B R A.com all my life's work is on my website. I help people mid to senior level folks advance in their careers and become highly successful leaders. So you'll find all the videos on how I help people and all the details are there on my website. And also I live on LinkedIn, literally. So if you hear this episode, you want to connect with me and you want to talk to me further about any of the things Joe and I talked about, please hit me up. I'd love to connect with people and build my network as well. So definitely you can reach out to me there. And finally, I know Joe was really nice enough to show my book. So yeah, my book is called Skyrocketed Career. So if you go to Skype rocketyourcareerbook.com, you can download the first chapter for free and then you can figure out whether it's something which is worth your time reading as well. Plus you have a lot of free templates as well.

So yeah, thanks again for your Automation awesomeness. The links to everything of value we covered in this episode. Head on over to test guild.com a470 and if the show has helped you in any way, why not rate it and review it in itunes? Reviews really help in the rankings of the show and I read each and every one of them. So that's it for this episode of the Test Guild Automation Podcast. I'm Joe. My mission is to help you succeed with creating end to end full stack automation awesomeness. As always, test everything and keep the good. Cheers.

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