Mastering Robot Framework Techniques at RoboCon Online with Guido Demmenie, Kelby Stine and Manana Koberidze

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Hey, it's Joe. And welcome to another episode of the Test Guild Automation Podcast. Today we'll be talking with Guido, Manana and Kelby, seasoned experts in automation testing and robot framework enthusiasts all about robocon all online that is happening March 4th to the 6th and I have the honor of hosting again this year. Really excited about that. If you ever wanted to take a deep dive on the robot framework all from the comfort of of your home, you don't want to miss out. Register now using the link down below and grab your ticket now. Hey, before we get into it, I want to thank you for listening into this episode. This awesome podcast dives deep into the power of robot framework. But why stop here? If you're really serious about test automation? Robocon Online is a must attend. It's happening March 4th to the 7th. It includes exclusive talks and live Q and A, getting direct insights from industry experts, hands on tutorials to help you level up your skills with deep dive sessions and a global community and gather talent networking where you can connect, learn and collaborate in a truly immersive virtual space with other robot framework enthusiasts and experts. Whether you're a seasoned pro or just getting started, this is your chance to gain practical knowledge, ask your burning questions and be part of the robot framework community like never before. Also, this is the third time I'll have the pleasure of hosting this event all online. So don't miss out. Register now and secure your spot at RoboCon online. Head on over to TestGuild me RoboConreg or use the link down below. Hope to see you there. Hey everyone. Welcome to the Guild.

Welcome, welcome.

Jav.

Hello.

Great. Cool. Hey. Cool to have you all here. I guess before we get into it, I just always like to ask people or why you chose a certain framework. So yeah, obviously all using robot framework, you're all coordinated with robocon. So maybe we just go around the room and ask maybe like how you found out about robot framework and why you use it for your current day to day operations.

Maybe.

So Manana, any thoughts on why Robot framework?

I saw Robot Framework for the first time when I was a trainee at the health tech company and I was immediately impressed how clean and tidy test code you can write with Robot framework and how nice reporting it had. And since then I stick to robot framework.

Awesome. So it sounds like it's easy for folks maybe that are not experts to pick up because it sounds like you started off maybe as a beginner.

Yes. And I also like that you can run anything from robot framework. It has so many capabilities. You are not limited with anything.

Absolutely. And that's why I love hosting this event. I always learn about a new thing. I'm like, oh, I didn't know it did, blah, blah, blah. There's always a crazy like plugin that somehow does the magic. Cool stuff. So, Kelby, any thoughts?

So this is not the answer you were expecting.

Okay.

I was told by a manager I had to learn robot framework to resurrect a dead and dying project. Even after I implored him to use Java, Selenium and Appium.

Because I was my first exposure. I was not at all impressed with robot framework at all. Because I was like, why are we doing this? We were an Android shop. We should be using Java and Selenium and Appium as it should be in a proper language. But I lost that argument because when your boss says you must learn this to resurrect a project or project, you do what your boss tells you to do. And I spent one month going through all the training at the time, which was very little. And I'm like, I've been stupid all along. This makes. Because I couldn't believe how easy it was to do things that were incredibly a pain in the neck in other languages. So that's where my approach came from. And funny thing, that is like an insider look at what my topic is because I'm going to be a speaker for robocon online. So that's a little insight of my speech. That's for that. Very cool for 2025.

So Kelly, is that because there's a big misunderstanding, is that when you use Rubber framework, you're saying, oh, I can't use Selenium or Appium, when in fact you can, but only better almost it sounds like. Or what extra features.

I think it was at the time, the test automation, I don't know fad was that you wrote your test automation in the same language as your product. So that's a way of like, okay, we're going to bring in developers and stuff, which rarely happens. I mean, sometimes it does if you're in a perfect, you know, wonderful company that does that sort of thing. But typically test automators are on their own. And I was sort of impressed at how easy it was to get running code like running Tests now refining and like working on like the project structure and everything that's taken a lifetime to figure out, but that's true with any particular language. But like the thing that caught me with the robot framework was how easy it was to get your first running test, you know, once I figured out some of the basic syntax of it, which is what's a big draw with robot framework. And that was just the tip of the learning journey, so to speak with that language. So I don't know Java you have to like first you spend like three or four days building out what you need to run your first test and then you run your first test. Whereas robot framework, you could have your first test running in like less than 30 minutes.

That's a great point. I had to get a book by Alan Richardson on Java for automation. And it's just the parts for Java that works for animation. Probably should just use robot framework, save myself a bunch of time because you're so right with that. So Guido, did you choose robot framework or was it forced on you like it was on Kelby?

Well, a bit of both.

Together with a colleague, we were looking for something, okay, how can we start test automation for our company and we've been using other tools before and we were looking for something that we could spread along the whole corporation and we were like with a consultant and he was telling us about robot framework and I was looking at it, it was a long time ago and ride didn't look as good as it does now, but it really was like, are we going back to like the 80s or something? It's really felt like that at the time. And my colleague was like, oh, this is cool, we can use so very good. And I was like, really? So in the end we started using it and well, it took a little bit of time, but I was definitely impressed a lot indeed, how easy it is to get your test running and also how easy it is to write the tests in a language that you're business people can understand. So you can actually write it in the same language that they speak so they can read the test, they can understand what the test does. If you do example mapping, you can actually make that running code or running test the examples that you specify. So that is really a big plus for robot framework. Yeah, being able to run it that fast when you start on a project. That's really nice.

Awesome. So in the pre show, Kelby mentioned the review had been working for two and a half years. Did I hear that correctly? And if so, what have you all.

Been Working on that's Kelby's fault.

Because Kelby came up with a talk about hey, we're missing a style guy. And I was thinking, yeah, you're right, that is something for me quite easy to start joining in on. So that's when I said to Kelby, hey, hey, I'm okay with helping out with the style guy. And I think I was not the only one.

And that's when we had the first hybrid. That was the May one and we did it. Hybrid. So like some of the presentations were online, some of the presentations were in person. It was kind of a little bit of both, you know, and it, it was basically the point where they realized they needed to have an in person conference and an online conference. But to answer your question, yeah, we're the ones. We're part of the style guide work group. We've been developing and working on all the rules for correctly formatting robot framework code.

Yeah, I still have a note saying from the online conference, KB request style guide. I should join.

So why join Manana? How did Kelby persuade you to actually join in on this?

I always had big respect to the clean code in general and I knew that there is no style guide for robot framework. And I have been coming up with my own conventions, own rules to keep the code consistent. And important point was that Kelby called for action. He created this empty repo and said, yeah, just come and contribute. And then our foundation helped to organize this work group and since then we have been working, yeah, very well. Happy and nice.

Yeah, nice, nice. So what's the biggest style. No, no or style issue you see most people struggling with? Like I don't know why people still doing that or not optimal.

The list is long.

Okay.

I think borrowing style from other languages, I think we can all agree that we don't look at it as more of a right or wrong. But if you're just starting out and you're like what can. And I. You say to yourself, okay, I've learned robot framework. And everyone's like saying, well I'm going to write it in the style of Python, I'm going to write it in style of C. You know, the variables are all in different casing or the keywords are all lowercase. That's the one that annoys me the most. But that's neither here nor there or there's no consistency of spacing and white space. The thing about the style guide is says here, let us give you a starting point. If you want to veer off this path, that's on you and that's fine. There's really no, I don't really consider it a right or wrong, but it's kind of like giving you a baseline of, you know, if you follow these guides, you'll end up with some decent looking code that's easy to read. Case in point, I was reviewing just came from an interview of a candidate that did Robot Framework and his example didn't fit the guide at all. It was like robot framework 3.2. I mean this was ancient but there was consistency of the code and it was very easy to read. Now I didn't understand the Portuguese, but that's fine.

But the point was that hey, they have a style and they stuck with it and that's great, so maybe they don't need the style guide. But for someone who's just learning on their own, like they're the only test automator in a company, a small company, and they want to bring people on board and have the same look and feel, we say here, here's a guide. That's all it is. It's just like here you go. It's maybe not as militant as like a PEP 8 or, or the Java conventions, but that's okay. That's not like the robot framework, like mindset. It's like there's lots of best practices that are already existing that have been used for years before you even wrote the style guide. But at least we say, hey, we're going to write down some of the good ones and you can choose whether or not you want to follow it.

Yeah, and I think the most important thing is, as Kelby already said or mentioned a few times, consistency, at least make sure that your code is consistent in how you write it because that makes it easier to read for everyone. However you choose to write it, as long as it's consistent, it's fine. I've seen back and forth commits changing the same bit, but just in a little bit of a different style because it was someone else's preference. I was like stop doing that. It doesn't add anything.

So this might be. It's off on a tangent already, but do you see Genai helping at all with this? Like almost having. Can you create like an AI copilot for Robot framework almost? Is that something that would be helpful to take the style guide train in on that so that you get more consistency?

Yeah, I have heard ideas what if AI could review, for example, pull requests and maybe compare to the style guide. But I think right now AI is not really that mature to completely Rely on that or AI is at the moment more like exploration. What can we do with that? And learning how we can use it and where we can use it. I think it's still a bit early, but good to follow and be aware what you can do.

Absolutely. Very cool. All right, so let's get to the actual meat of the interview with the sessions that you all are going to be talking about. Get a little insight into what you're speaking about or what you're all doing at the online event. So manana, let's start with you. What are you doing for the online event? What's your session about?

Yes, I'll be presenting tutorial about robot framework templates. I chose this topic because at the moment I felt that there were not enough clear examples available or somehow information was scattered. So I decided to put together and give practical examples with explanations how you can use it and how you can make the most of these templates when it makes sense to use and when it does not, and what to watch out. I hope this will help others to adopt templates and use more effectively in their tests.

So why templates? You love clean code. Does this help make cleaner code then?

Yes, partially. Because templates are used in data driven tests. When you have data and iterates the same test case over the same over data set. Yes, it partially is clean way of writing and I think it's also very useful. It's just one of the tools that you can use while writing your tests.

Awesome. All right, Kal, you gave us a sneak peek kind of in the intro of what your session's gonna be about. But what's the official title and what are you going to dive into there?

It's, you're going to love this. It's called I Hate Robot Framework A Newbie's Guide. I'm actually doing that and I'm also doing a tutorial. But I'll talk about my talk first. My talk is basically the frustration of, you know, being a newbie, whether you actually have any test automation experience in other languages or not understanding. Number one, you know, the situation that you're in. Your boss says, robot framework, you must learn it. That was my situation. I didn't like it at all. Trust me, it was horrible from my point of view. But here I am, I'm on the style guide group, you know, go figure. But also advertising, like, if you are a newbie, first of all, understanding what your resources are for learning robot framework. For example, there are a handful of, there are a handful of really good courses that exist, that are now dated, but they're. They're okay on various learning platforms, but re advertising the resource that is the Robot Framework guides page, like, really understanding that as like a useful tool for a newbie and really like being understanding, like where everything is the other piece of the puzzle, which is we have an immensely awesome community. I don't know how to pronounce. Say it any other way. And Ed Manlove has talked about this, that the robot framework community, hands down, is the most friendly, helpful community compared to other forums out there. I feel like if someone's trying to help you, they're honestly trying to help you. And what really helps as a newbie is let's say you like, we have this Slack community, wonderful Slack community, people having all sorts of fun conversations, sometimes about gnomes or sometimes, you know, things happen in the random channel that should just stay in the random channel. But people are there to earnestly help you and to understand how you need to as a newbie, what is your responsibilities, for example, knowing that people are there to help you. How many times have I seen this on the newbie channel where someone comes in very belligerent about robot framework and I still want to help them and I'm like, maybe you should change. I don't want to say maybe you should change your attitude, but in my mind I'm thinking it's really hard helping you, but I'm going to help you anyway because it looks like you're in a corner here and you need to figure out how robot framework is really running here. So just like addressing the fact that, hey, you're a newbie, everyone's here to help you. We want to see you succeed. Here are some tips to make your life easier in the robot framework community. Because we're not like other communities. We do earnestly care about you as a human being.

So that's kind of, you know, the gist of my talk and the other thing, and if I'm also doing a tutorial which is more technical and maybe more dry, but it's how to build a test automation framework from the test level up, like building from the test. It's a variation on a tutorial that Robin MacKay put on about how to handle resources and variables and stuff, it's a little bit different. Take viewpoint on that tutorial, which is also useful because you'll find that there are tutorials that kind of have overlapping content, but because they're coming at it from a different learning perspective, it might hit someone differently. And they're like oh, light bulb moment. Whereas the other one might not have given the light bulb, you know.

So tough question for people that are planning to join online, which you can using the link down below. What's the difference between a tutorial and a talk? Is the tutorial going to be really like they need to have their computer all set up, ready to go or is it just a longer, a longer session?

Depends on the tutorial. Mine's only going to be two hours long. I don't see much audience participation. It's more of like, hey, look over my shoulder as I do things. But others are a little more hands on. Especially I think there might be some longer ones. Well, the in person. Okay, the advantage of going to the in person one, the tutorials are like all day long and they're like, they're completely hands on.

But those are called the workshops.

Those are called the workshops.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is workshops.

Yeah, yeah.

So manana, you're doing a tutorial, right? So how's that going to work for you? Yours?

Yes. Tutorials are online and there are two hours allocated to it. I don't think it's necessary to have own laptop and do at the same time what I'll be presenting. But of course it's helpful and everyone is welcome to do as they learn best.

Cool. And guido. For some reason I couldn't find what your session is. Are you speaking at the at this event or what's your participation at this year?

No, I decided this year to not do any talks or anything. So I'm actually just participating which is really nice. So yeah, being on site but also the online bits are. Is just really nice to see everyone again even after you've seen them just a month before.

But it's really nice listening to the talks join into in Gather Town and walk around, talk to people. And even after all the talks, there usually a lot of people come back after dinner and have a lot of more talks. Sometimes even with a beer or most of the times or any other drink that floats your boat. So it's really nice to join in for the talks and for all the other things that are happening in Gathertown.

Oh, Gather Town. Talk about Gathertown.

But people that don't know what is Gathertown. How can you get the most as a participant then for everyone's listening, I'm definitely joining using the link down below for the online event. How can they participate really fully with the event?

Yeah, Gettertown is really nice. It's like a platform where you walk with an avatar in a 2D world. But as soon as you come close to other people, your video and sound stream switch on and you can hear other people talking to each other. So you can just join in. If you see a few people standing around, you can just join in. Sort of like real life. You can listen in a little bit. Oh, this is interesting. Then you stay and usually people say, hey, someone's new. Hey. Hi, Eek. Can you introduce yourself very shortly. And then, well, the talk goes on and if you think, oh, this is not really what I really like or I don't understand what you're talking about, you just walk on and see if you find somewhere else. One of the places is Beerbeer. That is, yeah, sort of like a simulation of a bar, but it's actually made because in Helsinki there is a bar called Beer Beer. So they tried to recreate that and they did a very good job.

And there is Finnish sauna too.

Yeah. If you've never experienced it, this is going to be my third or fourth year hosting. They have saunas like you mentioned. Really wild stuff. And it really does. People think, oh, it's an online event, I'm not going to be able to participate or really meet people. It really is a unique experience. If you haven't tried it or checked it out, it's really a cool community as well. So definitely worthwhile. Kelly, we about to say something.

Oh, I was gonna say there's a seven hour difference between where I am in Minnesota and Helsinki and I will wake up at as early as I can to get on to Gathertown in my pajamas sometimes. But when you meet it, when you have the meetups at the end of the day, which of course is like 10 o' clock my time and everybody online is having their beverage of choice and you're like, okay, I'm having a beer at 10 o' clock in the morning and you don't even think about it. It just doesn't happen. You know, it's like, fine, this is good because it's. Sure, you go for all the talks and there's lots of knowledge. There's more than you could ever imagine. Like, sure, it's robot framework, but it's talking about testing other like systems that you wouldn't think about testing because robot framework is so flexible. So people have just molded it to their will. And every year I'm always fascinated, like what things have they figured out how to test with using robot framework or how have they modified it to handle a certain test scenario. But because of that, our community is really not lopsided in one kind of testing over another kind of testing. Like if you, if you know, if you went to like a other, you know, like a Cypress meetup, it's all APIs and UI and nothing really else. For example, I just thinking that at the top of my head, whereas robot framework, who knows what you're gonna get. Embedded Systems, Data Systems IoT. What was the one that the testing the antennas Staphula. Yeah, that one was last year. That was not online but it still was an awesome one.

But anyway, I have used for impetit.

Yeah.

Or actually the one that I used for cross training at my job was the SAP. Like the new SAP library.

Robosapiens.

Robiosapiens. Yes. Thank you. That was pretty. I like introduced that to the team. One of our teams that actually is automating against SAP and they're like oh hello. They started using it so I was able to bring that back to my company. So anyway. But you can't do that really well in other testing tools. So that's kind of the fun part. You never know what you're going to get.

It's a good point. And that's another reason why to join because you may discover a library you didn't know was there and that could help you with something like well, that's kind of obscure but wait, there's a library for that. So that's awesome. So we talked a lot about community and I know on the on site event you mentioned community, there's a community day. But I think online we also have a community day that takes advantage of gather talent. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that. Why that's. You think it's a benefit as well to join the online event wants to take that.

Yes. So when you're in gather and we have the community day, it's like everyone's in a big room and I think it usually is AD that just asks everyone. So he goes a little bit of a round for people that come up with ideas that or topics they want to talk about. So we make a big list of topics about things to discuss and when we've done the whole round and have a lot of topics it's mostly like okay, put your hands up on any topic that you like. He just goes through all the topics again and hands are being put up and you can put your hands up as often as you like. And then because, well, we have limited time of course they just spread the different topics across different locations in Getter because we have some rooms there too. And you just walk to the room that you like or with the topic that you like. And the good thing about the online bit is that it can't be full because you can ghost yourself and walk through walls and stuff, which is nice. Or people not sure if you can walk through walls, but. And, well, you can participate. And usually there's at least one that coordinates or facilitates the topic. And when you think, oh, maybe this is not really the topic for me, you're always free to move to another room. And there's a few rules to the unconference and I don't know them by heart, but the law of defeat is one of them that I know. So if you don't like it, you just walk off and that's fine. Nobody is hurt or it's just okay. If you don't like it, just walk away.

And that's the great thing about being online. You really could be somewhat, like, not worried about they're going to see me. It's just like, you're gone also. Yeah, that's also true. Yes.

And then you just walk into another room and see if that's more fun.

Exactly.

And that's fine.

Cool. All right, I want to wrap it up. To wrap it up. I thought we'd go around the room and ask, like, what is the one reason you think people should join robocon online that they can join using the link down below? So let's start with you manana. One reason why you would give or a tip you give someone why they should join robot robocon online?

I think it's addictive.

Okay.

Want some? Addicts. Robot framework addicts. I love it.

Can't beat that.

All right, Kelby, you'll most likely learn something about gnome. Gnomes.

That's true. I learned something about gnomes the first time I hosted for sure.

More accurately, I would say, okay, the serious answer, because I had to put gnomes in there somewhere.

The serious answer is expanding your. I mean, this is true for any convention, but I think it's more capable because you don't have to worry about people flying into Helsinki. There's a few more varied people going to the online convention and just creating a whole new sphere of context that you didn't have before. Every single time I go, I pick up 10, 20 people that I've never met before. And it's really nice having those connections all over the planet. And I do mean all over the place. I think we had some people from India which, like, ended up spawning like a mini robocon kind of thing, little mini meetup with them. So that's the kind of things that come out of the online event. So perfect. Expanding your sphere.

Love it, love it. And guido.

Yeah, I think if you don't have the means to travel to Helsinki and go there, then the online is really a good alternative because you hear a lot of good talks and there's a lot of talking in between the talks. So indeed, as Kelby says, meeting other people and besides only robot framework especially, well, my evenings after dinner there's a lot of still robot framework talks but also a lot of other things. Sometimes we're playing games and stuff. So it's really nice to just join in and get to know the community, get to know people that you would maybe otherwise not woke up to during conference. So that's really nice. And I think Manana, what she said, it's addictive. I think we've all been going for. I think this will be fourth or fifth time.

Fourth.

Yeah. So it definitely is addictive and it's.

Definitely so interactive that I believe it exceeds expectations of every first time attending person.

Love it. Colby, you want to say son?

I was going to say and the thing about Gather Town is that I was able to get it working on other devices than your desktop. So it does support, you know, other formats like an Android device or an iOS device. It still has some limitations there, but not too many. So you know, if you're worried about like, oh, I don't have a desktop machine or I don't. I mean everyone has a laptop. But you never know, you can bring it with you. So you can bring your addiction with you.

Hide with your addiction somewhere.

Perfect. All right, thank you all for joining us and I hope to see you all online. Thank you. Thanks again for your automation awesomeness. The links to evident value we covered in this episode, head on over to testguild.com a535 and if the show has helped you in any way, why not rate it and review it in itunes? Reviews really help in the rankings of the show and I read each and every one of them. So that's it for this episode of the Test Guild Automation Podcast, Joe. And my mission is to help you succeed with creating end to end full stack automation awesomeness. As always, test everything and keep the good. Cheers. Hey, thank you for tuning in. It's incredible to connect with close to 400,000 followers across all our platforms and over 40,000 email subscribers who are at the forefront of automation testing and DevOps. If you haven't yet join our vibrant community@testguild.com where you become part of our elite circle driving innovation, software testing and automation. And if you're a tool provider or have a service looking to empower our guild with solutions that elevate skills and tackle real world challenges, we're excited to collaborate. Visit testguild.info to explore how we can create transformative experiences together. Let's push the boundaries of what we can achieve.

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