Barbara Jenkins: Walking into Remarkable

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I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is remarkable. People, we're on a mission to make you remarkable. So stop just thinking different and start thinking remarkable. Helping me this week is Barbara Jenkins. She captured the hearts of millions of people when she chronicled her epic 3,000 mile walk from New Orleans to Oregon in the blockbuster bestseller the Walk West. This journey with her former husband became a National Geographic cover story and international sensation. The book sold over 15 million copies. Barbara went on to author several more inspirational books, including the number one mass paperback, the Road Unseen. She's been a keynote speaker for major conferences and served in influential roles like a commissioner for two Tennessee governors. Jenkins also chaired the board of the Tennessee Women's Forum. Barbara continues to embrace adventure. Whether painting, writing her next book, or telling stories to her granddaughters, Jenkins lives with openness and passion. She believes that even when one door closes, patience and persistence will open another. Jenkins sees life's curved walls as opportunities to build resilience and grow. Her latest book, so Long as It's Wild is out now and tells the inside story of that 3,000 mile walk. You will be fascinated. This episode is brought to you by my friends at Merge4Merge and the number four. I'm an investor in the company because they make the coolest socks. For a 30% discount, use the promo code. FriendOfGuy. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. And now here is the remarkable Barbara Jenkins. At the very end of your book, you talk about all the great adventures you've had and one of the adventures is going to Maui. You must know about the fire, but I just wanted to let you know that that big banyan tree you discussed, people think it has survived and it will make it through this time.

I remember they had a beautiful crafts fair under that tree.

Yeah.

And I bought some gorgeous jewelry there. And I always think of that tree and just the roots all the way out across the ground where people just sit there.

You start off with this great story about writing or co writing a book and it sells 15 million copies. You tell story after story about meeting these great Americans and inspiration. Give me the gist of that book.

Obviously it was a life changing experience. I spent three years walking from New Orleans to the coast of Oregon and meeting real Americans across this country. Facing all kinds of dangers, of victories, of losses, of weather conditions, not knowing where my next meal was coming from, learning to sleep on the ground at night, learning to live at a different pace, putting one foot in front of the other. But the gist of that story of that life, I think really was about self discovery and discovery of an America that we have forgotten and of people that we have forgotten and overlooked. Foreign.

So let me get this straight. You meet Peter in New Orleans.

Yeah.

You fall in love.

Yes.

You go on this three year walk.

Yes.

You're basically carrying a 40 pound pack.

Yes.

You're trying to do 15 miles a day.

Yes.

You don't have GPS, you don't have Patagonia, you don't have Ariane, you don't have Uber, you don't have Lyft, you have no Airbnb.

No.

It's just hard for me to wrap my mind. How did you logistically do this?

It is like an alternate universe. You have to get into a different mindset where literally you walk by faith. You put one foot in front of the other because you don't know what the day is going to bring. You don't know who you're going to meet, you don't know where you're going to get your next meal. And I did that for three years and living one day at a time. But it taught me a depth of life that I think very few ever truly understand or experience. Because I honestly, in order to get from A to Z and when I would look ahead or look at a map, it was overwhelming. How could I ever accomplish something like that? But it's like everything in life, we do it one step at a time. And so it was one step, one hour, one day at a time. And I began to notice things along the way. I began to hear sounds and smell smells and experience the earth and the people and the weather and experience life in a way that if you're a nature lover, sometimes when you get out in the wilderness, it may take a day or two for you to assimilate and come down out of all the frantic life pace that the world is today into kind of an alternate universe where you begin to hear the sounds and see the stars and feel the earth under your feet. I did that day after day in all kinds of conditions. If you read the book, you know about the tornadoes and the storms and the heat strokes and the. And. And the whiteouts, the blizzards. But it was a great adventure. It was a great adventure. If I were in my twenties again, I'd do it again.

You would? Yeah. And if your kids said, mom, I want to retrace your footsteps, you'd be all in.

Just a couple of years ago, my oldest son, we took a road trip and we retraced the route that I walked from New Orleans to Oregon with his dad. And of course, he has written it'll. It's coming out this fall. It's called Mother Nature. He's a New York Times bestselling author as well, so you need to have him on your podcast.

Okay. You'll be the first mother son combination.

Yes. It's an oddity. Very rare because I certainly didn't. Time took me three years to write this book, Guy, because I did not want to write it. I had no desire to write this book.

No, wait, just for clarification, you're talking about the second book. We're talking about the book that you're just about to release, not the original one. Okay.

No, the book, so Long as It's Wild, is going to be released September 12, 2023. I did not want to write that book. And it took three years to write it. But it was my granddaughter at the time, she was 7 years old, and she said to me, yo, yo, my name is yo yo. She said, yo, yo, did you really walk across America? And I knew then that was my calling. I knew I had to write this story from my vantage point, from my voice, from how I experienced walking across America and all the before, during and after events. And I had to do it for my own legacy. But I didn't want to do it.

You didn't want to do it because it forced you to revisit some of the things that your ex husband did or what was the negative?

I think part of it, if you remember, I go back and tell the stories of being raised in the Ozarks.

Yeah.

And the poor Ozark hillbilly in the Missouri Ozarks. And my mother, whom I love deeply and who passed away in 2010. My mother was hell on wheels when she was a young woman. She was a fiery, red headed, temperamental woman. And she was a very difficult mother. And so it was painful for me to. To tell those stories because of this conflict of how much I love her, but yet to Tell the story in such a way where the reader sees her for who she was at that time, because being raised as a poor hillbilly, we did not have indoor plumbing Till I was 12 years old, and we were very poor. And the reader really needs to see where I came from to understand how in the world could I ever agree to walk across America? But I knew what it was to do without to live humbly. It wasn't a stretch for me. It was painful to write because I had to go back and tell stories that involved my mother. And then, of course, after the walk and all the fame and the fortune, selling millions of books, our books became a permanent part of the White House library. We were on the COVID of National Geographic magazine. We were a sensation. But there was so much more to the story. And I lived the part because I had so much invested. I had walked across America. We had built a financial kingdom. I had three beautiful children. Why would I want to upset the apple cart? And so I had to go back and revisit the truth of why the marriage failed and then rebuilding my life. So it was painful for those reasons. But out of great pain comes great change and great victories.

I'm trying to figure out why the title is so Long As It's Wild, because the word wild can be interpreted in several ways. So please explain the title.

The title comes from a wonderful quote by John Muir. John Muir was a naturalist, a writer, an adventurer back in the 1800s, and he settled in California. But he had this famous quote that says, God made everything beautiful so long as it's wild. And so Long As It's Wild comes from his quote. But so Long As It's Wild is a very captivating title. It does mean many things to many different people. But it's like the freedom and the wildness of life, of nature, of change, and of not being confined by all the structures of a 9 to 5 job or living in a grind. So Long as it's wild. I love the title.

Well, I loved it, too. Maybe I'm trying to see a pattern or see something that doesn't exist, but seems to me that around the same time you were walking across America, Lamar Alexander walks from Mountain City to Memphis like a thousand miles. So did he inspire you or you inspire him, or that's just coincidental that the two of you are walking?

It's coincidental we did not know Lamar at that time, because what was. Do you have the years there?

He walked in 1978, which is about the time you were walking.

Okay. Yes. No, we actually, I think, probably inspired him because he asked us to endorse a book that he wrote called the Tennesseans. But because of his walk and our walk, we did become friends, and we spent many evenings in the governor's mansion having dinner and talking about wild things and adventures. And he was quite an outdoorsman.

You tell this great story about, you're young, you've fallen in love, you're in New Orleans, and you go to this service, and this woman named Mom Beale has a sermon, and she talks about going with this man. And you took it as a sign of God that, yes, you should go with Peter and walk across the country. Looking back, do you now think, oh, that was just a coincidence. It really wasn't God talking to me. What a mistake it was. Or how do you interpret that?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, it was a phenomenal experience. I was working on a master's degree at a seminary, so I was already a woman of faith. But when Peter asked me to walk from New Orleans to Oregon with him, I had never been camping a day in my life, and so it was overwhelming. And I was going to break up with Peter because this is his dream, his journey, not mine. So I spent a lot of time meditating and praying and looking for guidance. What should I do? So I said, I'll go to church with you one last time. And if I don't have some kind of revelation, something that tells me that I should do this, then it's over. We'll just see where we are after you finish this walk. It was 1975. It was the fall. We're in New Orleans. Beautiful sunny day. Peter is in his holy jeans and. And. And T shirt. T shirt and. And sneakers. And of course, I'm embarrassed because he looks like he came in from under a bridge. And there's no place for us to sit except on the front row. And this is at a big church. There's about 2,000 people. I'm embarrassed. So we sit on the front row, and then they wheel out this old woman in her 80s in a wheelchair. And I'm thinking, this is like Star Trek. Where am I? This is so unique, so different. So this little old lady, she begins talking in this very sweet but very forceful voice, and she begins telling the story of Abraham and Isaac in the Bible. And they're looking for a wife for his son. And so they send this servant to this village. And the servant sees this beautiful young woman, and he thinks, oh, she's definitely the woman. But Then the family asks her, is this something you want to do? Will you go with this man? So Ma Beal developed this entire sermon, and after she told the story, she said, the title of my sermon today is, will you go with this man? Well, for me, it was like a bolt of lightning, because that was the question of my heart. Was it coincidence on that time, on that day, in that moment in history, that particular sermon, those particular words came to me. I did feel like it was a bolt of lightning, and it really was a call. Now I had the choice. The question was, to me, will you go with this man? I didn't have to go, but I felt like it was a call and that I should go. And obviously, it changed the trajectory of my life forever. I had some of the greatest adventures of my life, the greatest joys, as well as the greatest heartaches. But isn't that what life is all about?

Yes.

So, yes, it was. I do not regret, regardless of what's happened in my life, not for a second, because each of us along the trajectory of life are given the choice every day of our lives. What will you do today? How will you be better, do better, go better? But there came a point in mine and Peter's marriage and life, he chose another direction. I can't be responsible for his choices. But that doesn't mean that the call for me to go was not real and was not meant for me. So, yes.

So you go on this walk, and arguably you have a very good lens into. I would say the word real is overused. But you really met Americans. It wasn't just investment bankers and venture capitalists. Right. And so what did you learn about people on this journey?

I learned that common people are remarkable and extraordinary. Every person has a life story. I trapped alligators in Louisiana. I walked across Texas. I met ranchers in Texas. I met Homer and Ruby, ranchers out in West Texas. They stopped and gave us water to drink and invited us into their home for a bath and a meal. We ended up staying a few days, and I sat at Ruby's feet. And I learned from her that she actually traveled to Texas in a covered wagon. She was the oldest of 13 children. They were so poor that she ate water gravy for food. I've heard their stories and sat on the front porches and sat at the tables of Americans across this country and learned their hard work, their ethics, their belief systems. And what I discovered is that we're so much more alike than we are different. And we may live in different houses and have different levels of income, but yet when you take away all the traffic, people are just people. People are just people. And we all have very similar needs and goals. And if you're a parent, you love your children, you want what's best for them. If you're a man, you want to work, you want to earn an honest day's pay. If you're a mother or a woman, you want to raise up your children the best you can. The very core of humanity. We're all so much alike.

And you brought up Ruby. In one of your conversations with Ruby, you were expressing the difficulty of the trip, the difficulty of the relationship with Peter. And she basically said, suck it up and keep going, right?

Yes. But Ruby was a pioneer. She had worked like a man in the fields and had picked cotton and had worked in cafes. And they built this little three room ranch house themselves and had lived in a shack. After they got married in the 1930s, Ruby had a hard life. And to look at me, I'm a young woman, I'm healthy, I'm on this great adventure. I've got the best of equipment, Jansport, backpacks, tents, equipment. And she looks at me and she has no pity or sympathy for me. And so instead of saying, oh, you poor girl, and oh, your husband is not nurturing you or doting on you, we were newlyweds sleeping on the ground, so there was no romantic evenings by a pool drinking a glass of wine. We were sleeping on cow patties under bridges. And instead of Ruby offering me all this pity, she challenged me. She said, oh, law girl. She'd say, law L A W. Oh, law girl, this ain't so bad. You ain't lived till you've picked cotton all day long in the hot Texas sun for 30, for 25 cents, a hundred pounds. She said, why this walk across America? It ain't nothing. You can do this. Though she never said anything against Peter or talked about our marriage, she challenged me as the person. Barbara, you can do this. And that's exactly what I needed. So I called her one of my many angels along the way that gave me the encouragement. And I think that's. I think that's what's part of what's wrong with young people today. We're not challenging them, we're pitying them and enabling them to be immature and to not stand up to the trials and difficulties in life. But Ruby, she gave me gut, she gave me her pioneer spirit. And I'll forever be indebted to her.

Just to be devil's advocate a little bit but there are some times when you should get out of a bad relationship. So how do you balance Suck it up by Ruby versus get the hell out?

Peter and I were still newlyweds at that point. Yeah. And I wasn't going to get the hell out because I wanted to give it a shot. I'm not a quitter. And Peter and I were married 12 years and had walked across America and had three children. So I'm not a quitter. And I wanted to give it my best shot. And I think most people do. You don't want to just throw in the towel without doing everything, you know, to do to preserve a home and a family. When Ruby encouraged me to keep going and not to focus on Peter, but to focus on, focus on myself and what I could do, I really needed that at that time. Yes, there is a time in many relationships people need to get out for any number of reasons. But in the context of the story and where I was at that time, Peter and I were newlyweds. So, you know, I wasn't gonna. It was, it was too sick.

So you answered what you learned about people in that we're more similar than we're different. What did you learn about yourself on this journey?

I had a lot of preconceptions and a lot of prejudices because of growing up in the Ozarks. Growing up at Hillbilly, we were very poor. And I thought anybody who had money or prestige or wealth, they were all born with a silver spoon in their mouth. They were all stuck up. They were all this. That, that's not true. There are wonderful, successful people in this world. But when you grow up poor, you can look through the lens of seeing people. Anyone who is prosperous or doing well, from your point of view, it's like, oh, poor pitiful me. But they're just stuck up and they think they know it all or they've got it all. And that's just not true. I learned many things about myself. In fact, it was an entire journey of self discovery and breaking down prejudices about people and places, environment, every, everything. If you travel, it dispels a lot of your misconceptions about people and places.

This is going to be an off the wall question that is going to, let's say it's going to reveal some of my ignorance and prejudices and et cetera, et cetera. Okay.

Okay.

So with that caveat, I ask you this question, which is after I read your book, I said to myself, you know what, maybe she can help me understand this. And the question Is especially when you're talking about the people you met in Texas and Ruby and all this. Can you explain the attraction that Donald Trump has to people like this? Like, what do they see in him that make them so loyal to him?

I think conservative people see Donald Trump as a voice for them. I think they don't like a lot of his personality or mannerisms, but I think that they see Donald Trump as a man who isn't polished with all the right things, isn't polished with, you know, saying one thing out of one side of your mouth and then doing another. I think they see him as a man who, if he says he's going to do something, he's going to do his best to try to do it. And for all of his failures and weaknesses and every politician has them, no matter what side of the fence you're on, I think they trust him more than others.

You can see my liberal bias and. But I'm trying to embrace your thinking about understanding others and understanding where they're coming from as opposed to assuming you're right.

I think all of us view life through our life experiences, positives and negatives and we see things through. I mean, there's so many layers. Whether it's the way you grew up, it was your parents beliefs and politics. It was what happened to you when you were at the bottom of the barrel and you needed some kind of government program, you needed some kind of help. Either you got help or you didn't. That's going to influence your thinking. Everybody views, particularly I think, religion and politics through their own life experience. And what I say is, when you meet people across the country, across the world and you peel back all the layers, we're all just human beings, mind, body and spirit, looking to do the best we can with what we've got and to find our way in this world.

You're a wise soul, Barbara Jenkins. You are a wise soul.

If I have any wisdom, it's because of my life experience. It's because of the things I've done and the things I have experienced in my life. And I've made many, many, many mistakes and I fall short in many ways, but when I do learn a lesson, it sticks.

Sounds like it, yes. So this is another off the wall question, but by any chance, do you still have that Nikon camera?

Yes, I do.

You do?

I do. I have the Nikon camera and the lens that big semi truck ran on.

Yeah.

Yes. Oh, yes.

And does it still work?

Yes, yes.

Ah, that's a great story.

Yes. Yes, it Does.

It's a little detail like that that you talk about. Not that you just had a camera, but it's a Nikon, and the lens got dented by the semi. And I just love those kind of stories. It may not be big picture, but it adds so much color to your book guide.

Did the book hold your attention?

Absolutely.

You got an advanced reader copy? I got a wonderful endorsement from Dolly Parton.

I saw that.

Yes. Yes. And Hilary Swank. Do you know Dolly, my very best friend, has been her backup singer for 35 years?

I read that.

Yes. Yeah. So that's how she got the book, because Dolly does not endorse books. But Dolly is the big reader, and she read this and loved it. So that made me very happy. But let me tell you the greatest compliment to me, because I came out of basically 40 years of silence. I didn't want to write this story because of my parents, my children. I didn't want to hurt anybody with any painful stories. But life does have pain. But I came out of 40 years of silence to write this. And so the greatest compliment I had was from this one editor, and nobody knows who she is. She's not Dolly Parton, and she's not Hilary Swank or Connie Britton or Jedi Jenkins. She's an unknown, but a brilliant editor who has edited many big books. And she thanked me for being able to edit the book, and she said it was like Margaret Wrinkle meets John Steinbeck meets Mark Twain. So it was all those great writers coming together. And to me, as a writer coming out of 40 years of silence, to be able to have an editor tell me that that's what it was like. Reading this book was the greatest compliment. That's not a public endorsement. It's just, for me. And at this stage in my life, guy, I'm too old. I don't care about fame and fortune. It's a great story of encouragement and overcoming odds and finding joy in life no matter what where you are or what happens, because it's there. It's there. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm getting on my soapbox.

Why else get on a podcast if not to be on your soapbox?

That's the whole point. Yeah.

To the. To that combination of what you said, I would throw in a little bit of Studs Terkel. I see a little bit of Studs Terkel in your book, too.

Okay.

And I mean that as high praise because, yes, Studs Terco wrote some great books. Yes. Also salt of the earth Americans, right?

Yes. Oh, well, what Was it Abraham Lincoln said, God must love the common man because he made so many of them?

Well, the other saying is you can tell what God thinks of money by looking at who she gives it to.

Yes. Yep.

One of the points you brought up in your lessons from this journey and the 40 years is learning how to accept help. So what is the Barbara Jenkins theory of how to learn to accept help?

If we're going to grow personally, spiritually, intellectually, whatever, we have to have a teachable spirit. And if you're going to have a teachable spirit, you need to approach everything with some humility. You don't know it all, you just don't know it all. And all of us need help. All of us need people we can lean on, people who will lift us up when we're down. We need friends. Several years ago, many years ago, I started a group called 12 Women. And my kids were still at home. I was a single parent. One of my children was very rebellious. And I didn't need to go out and. And look for love in all the wrong places and find another man. I just needed support and help for where I was in my life. So I started a group called 12 Women and this was patterned after the 12 disciples. And I thought we can come together in humility and together be a support system for each other. And so we met in my home for two years every week, and then we continued meeting on about once a month and then once every six months for another 10 years. But those kinds of support systems and friendships help you get through life, just help you in good times and bad times. Maybe you're at a flourishing, wonderful place in your life and you have a friend over here whose life is falling apart. Well, you can be a help to that person. You can be a stable influence. You can be a guide. I've had enough ups and downs and joys and sorrows in my life that when I need help, I'm first in line with my hand out, looking for help, asking for help. I don't have too much pride to say I'm in a spot here. Can you help me? I think some people can't do that because they don't know how. And what I like to say or do is whether it's forgiveness or ask or humility or asking for help is basically show you how to do it. A lot of people don't know how to ask for help until they see someone else asking for help. And when, when you see someone modeling some of these behaviors, it shows you the way.

But. But Then let's get tactical here. How.

How what? What do you.

How to ask for help. What's the inside scoop on how to ask?

I think if you're going to ask for help, like I said, you need a teachable spirit and a humble attitude. And then if you want help in whatever area it is, you find the best person you know in that field, if it's economics, if it's real estate, if it's personal growth, wherever you need help in your life, if you're going through a divorce, then you need the best kind of resources available to help you. And don't be afraid to ask, because there are wise and wonderful people out there to help, and all we need to do is to ask. But there are a lot of people who don't want help, and you can't force it down their throat. It's when a person wants help that things can happen and things can change.

One interpretation of your book is that it's a wonderful tactical and human collection of marriage advice. So what is your marriage advice, looking back on this great adventure?

Well, of course, I do believe God called me to walk across America and to marry Peter, even though the marriage ended. But I think in any human relationship, marriage, friendship, parenting, all human relationships, I think at the core, we must do everything in love and to. Everything in love doesn't necessarily mean being a doormat or. Or someone wiping their feet on you. I think it is truly caring about that other person and what is in their best interest. Whether it's your spouse, whether it's your parent, whether it's your children, but that your treatment of them is truly an act of love. And to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and to love others as you love yourself. I think marriage advice, there's so many psychological factors and intricacies in a marriage, because it's spiritual, it's emotional, it's sexual, it's all those different layers, and it is a dance. But I think from a woman's perspective, because even though my marriage ended with Peter, I have two sons. I love sons. I love men. I. I respect men. I don't have a bitter bone in my body when it comes to men. And I think men need respect and deserve respect. And I think as women, we do ourselves a favor when we honor our husbands, when we honor the men in our lives, when we value their opinions and we're not always trying to punch holes in everything they do, but to be patient and to wait and to be long suffering. And I'm speaking as the woman here. I think when we treat men with the honor and respect that they deserve, that even in the differences, that those over time, those things will work themselves out.

But what if somebody says, well, you were treating Peter better than he probably deserved, right?

Yes, I think I was. But the marriage ended because of multiple infidelities. If Peter had been faithful to me, I probably would have stayed with him, but I couldn't live a lie. But throughout the marriage, I honored and respected him to the extent that I could. But when the time came that I knew and this was about me, not him, I couldn't live a lie. I couldn't sweep things under the rug. I'm a very authentic person. And walking across America and living the way I lived, sleeping on the ground and living under the stars, I cannot. I cannot live a fake life. And I could not model that to my children. But that has nothing to do with the responsibility on each side in a marriage of honoring and treating the other one with love and respect.

My last question for you. So when all is said and done, Barbara, what do you want people to say about you? What's your legacy?

That's a big question. I think it would be that I walked humbly and that I loved. Well, I think that at the end of our lives, it isn't about how much we've accumulated or how wealthy or how famous we are, any of that. It still comes back to our humanity. It comes back to who we are as a person, as a human being. And my greatest legacy would be what my children think about me, what they would say. And I know even now my children love me and adore me, and we have great relationships. But, you know, I'm not a saint. I'm not perfect. I made many mistakes. I don't know it all, but I am a woman who has lived a full life, a big life. I've done it all. I've seen a lot, done a lot. But at the end of the day, how did I treat my fellow man? How did I love others? Do my actions, from my pocketbook to my personal actions, reflect that I really care about other people?

Now, that's a beautiful, remarkable answer. Barbara Jones.

Oh, well, good, Good, good.

I'm 69 years old, so I can relate to many things you just said. Yes, and it's ironic, maybe unfortunate, but interesting nonetheless, that it would be so much better for the world if one could come to these kind of insights earlier in life.

Yes, I think about that, too. But I think we need all those years and all those experiences to really understand the depth of what they mean and how important they are. And we don't get that. I think when you're young, you just intellectualize everything and think it through and figure it out. But it's like I had a dear friend of mine who is a life coach and. And we did what's called the core story of my life through all this stuff. And he said, barbara, the reason you can love the way you do is because you experienced it from your grandmother. It is not something you can intellectualize or just think about. It is truly a spiritual, emotional experience. And if you've never experienced that, you cannot think it into existence.

You can't end their podcast better than that. Answer. This has been just so enjoyable, Barbara, and I'm sure many people will enjoy this podcast. Why don't you give a 30 second pitch for your book?

Well, thank you, Guy, for letting me tell you about my book. So Long Is it Wild? By Barbara Jenkins. I came out of 40 years of silence to tell this story. I did not want to write it, but my granddaughter asked me, did I really walk across America? So this book is full of high adventures, great twists and turns, lots of drama. I've had people tell me it is a page turner. They couldn't put it down. And I've been blessed with endorsements from people like Dolly Parton, who literally congratulated me for writing it. From Hillary Swank, from Connie Britton, from Jedediah Jenkins. I'm so humbled and thankful that I've had the opportunity to write this story and to tell it. I think people will love it and I think it will be a great encourager for people who are on their own path of self discovery. Because it is a story of change and self discovery, high drama, love and loss, and great victory.

Wow. You have a future in marketing, Barbara.

I do.

You do. It's never too late.

Thank you. But I just want to do what I feel like I'm supposed to do. Yeah. And telling this story, I just feel like I was meant to do it.

It cannot get better than that. So that's what it's like to walk across America. 3,000 miles from New Orleans to Oregon. Let's thank Barbara Jenkins for taking the time out to explain that adventure and give us the inside scoop. What a remarkable story. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. My thanks to the remarkable team, Jeff C, Shannon Hernandez, Madison Knysmer, Tessa Knysmer, Alexis Nishimura, Luis Magana and Fallon Yates. The remarkable team. And don't forget this podcast is sponsored by Merge4, creator of the World's Coolest Socks, 30% promo code. FriendofGuy. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable, people. Until next week, don't just think different, think remarkable. Mahalo and aloha. This is remarkable, people.