Dr. Jane Goodall: A Conversation about Conservation

Here's something remarkable and not in a good way. Disengaged employees cost US companies almost $1.9 trillion a year. That's a lot of zeros. Why? Because when teams lack the right skills, productivity declines, turnover increases, and strategies stagnate. But it doesn't have to be that way. At Project Management Institute, home of the PMP and globally recognized certifications, your people can learn to collaborate, deliver on time, and actually get things the cost of not upskilling way higher than the investment. Project Management Institute. Find the answers@pmi.org.

I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. This episode of Remarkable People is particularly remarkable because it was unplanned. But on April 14, 2021, I did a fireside chat with Jane Goodall on a social audio platform. It turned out so good that we decided to make it into a podcast. Jane and I were both on phones as opposed to using our usual squadcast podcasting recording platform, so the audio is not quite what you've come to expect from this podcast, but it's all about Jane. This episode of Remarkable People is brought to you by Remarkable, the paper tablet company. Yes, you got that right. Remarkable is sponsored by Remarkable. I have version two in my hot little hands and it's so good. A very impressive upgrade. Here's how I use 1. Taking notes while I'm interviewing a podcast guest. 2. Taking notes while being brief about speaking gigs. 3. Drafting the structure of keynote speeches.

4.

Storing manuals for the gizmos that I buy.

5.

Roughing out drawings for things like surfboards, surfboard sheds, and office layouts. 6. Wrapping my head around complex ideas with diagrams and flowcharts. This is a remarkably well thought out product. It doesn't try to be all things to all people, but it takes notes better than anything I've used. Check out the recent reviews of the latest version. I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People and and now here is the one and only Jane Goodall coming to you from her home in the south of England.

My wonderful welcome comes to you from the forests and hills of Gombe national park in Tanzania. The sound that you would hear if you came. Some of you have been but if you go to Gombe and climb the hills in the morning, the sound of a chimpanzee greeting the day announcing Here I am. Who's out there? Hello. Bring another language into your clubhouse.

Well, I tell you something. Elon Musk could not have done that so well.

It's a chimpanzee. Hello.

I think I have some Lice in my hair. You know, I need to see you again so you can pick them out for me then.

You shouldn't have chosen Clubhouse. You should have Zoomed.

Where are you right now?

I'm in the house where I grew up in Bournemouth in the south of England. It's cold and gray and this is where I've been for the duration. I've been grounded here since last March.

But you still have a tremendously busy schedule, don't you? What are you doing every day?

It's far, far, far busier than when I was traveling around the world. Because when you're traveling, you go from country to country. When you're in a country, you concentrate on that country. You don't do more than two things in a day. But here, the world has access to me. I'm asked to speak all over the world. I do Zooms and Skypes. And now I'm doing a clubhouse, which I've never done before. I'm sending video messages to people who need cheering up or need a bit of hope or something like that. And then, of course, there's all the emails and writing articles. Honestly, I can be in four different countries in one day.

It's clearly not easy to be Jane Goodall. I want you to tell people. I know you've probably told this story 50,000 times, but I think the story of how you actually got to Africa the first time is a very inspiring story and has a lot of great information and lessons for young people.

Well, okay. But, you know, it did begin right here in this house when I was reading Books about Dr. Dolittle and Tarzan and dreaming of going to Africa. So the journey really started when I was 10 years old and born. Loving animals, of course, that goes without saying. Left school. I did actually very well at school, but we couldn't afford university and so I had to earn some money. We had not much money. Got a boring secretarial training in London and got a job. And then came the opportunity, and that was a letter from a school friend inviting me to Kenya for a holiday. Couldn't save money in London, so I came home here to Bournemouth and got a job in a hotel being a waitress, which was extremely hard work. And eventually, after about five months, I think had saved up enough money for a return fare to Africa. And I give a lot of credit to my mother. First of all, she was the only one who supported this crazy dream of going to Africa, living with wild animals and writing books about them. Everybody else laughed. Never do that. Africa was far away and Anyway, I was just a girl, but she said, if you really want to do something like this, you'll have to work really hard, take advantage of every opportunity and if you don't give up, hopefully you'll find a way. So there I am, on my way to Africa, age 23 and about 23 in those days, was much younger than a 23 year old now. And most mothers wouldn't have let their 23 year old daughter go off on their own to a faraway country that we didn't know much about. But anyway, off I went and it was by boat because there were no planes going back and forth in those days and arrived in Kenya, stayed with my friend. Then came the amazing conversation where somebody said, if you're interested in animals, you should meet Dr. Louis Leakey, famous paleontologist. And I went to see him. He was curator of the Natural History Museum. And guess what? That boring secretarial course. Well, two days before I met Lewis, his secretary had suddenly left. He needed a secretary and there I was. So now I'm in a world where there are people all around who can answer all my questions about the animals and the plants in Africa. And that eventually led to him offering me the opportunity of going to live with and learn from not any animal, but the one most like us, the chimpanzee with whom we share 98.8% of our DNA. The problem was that the British authorities, because back then it was Tanganyika, which is Tanzania today, and the British authorities refused to take permission for this young girl to go off into the forest was a crazy, crazy idea. Nobody was doing it, men weren't doing it. But in the end, because Leakey persisted, they said, oh, all right, she can come, but she cannot come alone. She must have some female companionship. So who volunteered to come but that same amazing mother and the early days, the chimpanzees ran away and ran away and ran away. But after four months, one of them began to accept me. So there's the story of how I got to Africa and began my research.

I think a very important point is that, well, a, it was the support of your mother. That's one important point. Second important point is you didn't exactly have a PhD from Oxford in biology. You had secretarial skills. So it's not necessarily the amount of formal education you have. Perhaps more important is the passion. And this is about taking risks. I'm amazed that if my daughter, who I think is listening, said to me, oh, I want to go to Africa and I don't know what I would say today, so hats off to your mom.

Well, I think Africa is more dangerous today than it was then. Actually, to be honest, it really wasn't dangerous. But anyway, it was fascinating. And one of the things that was very, very meaningful to me in the way I look on the world is that the first place where that ship stopped in Africa was Cape Town. We didn't go through the Suez Canal because there was a war with Egypt and it was closed. And Cape Town is wonderful with that iconic Table Mountain. And I had two days there while the ship refueled or whatever it did. And Mum had a couple of friends there, so they said they'd look after me. And there was some magic. And then I saw these words on the back of the seats in the parks and on the doors into the hotels. Svexplant in Afrikaans. So I said, what does this mean? It means white people only. I didn't grow up that way. My grandfather was a congregational minister. And we didn't judge people by the color of their skin or their nationality or their culture or their religion, but judged them as human beings. So I couldn't wait to leave Cape Town. It was the height of apartheid. Anyway, I got to Kenya, and it was much better. They were on the very brink of independence. And the same when I got to Tanzania.

Can you tell the story about how you built trust in that first engagement? As you say, it took four months. But how did you build trust with the chimpanzees there?

Okay, well, I used the same method as I'd used on the birds and the squirrels and things around my home here. Patience. I didn't try to get clothes too quickly. I wore the same colored clothes each day. And it was one chimpanzee, David Graybeard, very distinctive, very handsome. And for some reason, he was less fearful than the others. You know, they're all different. They have their own personalities. And he was calm. And I later discovered that he was best friends with the top ranking alpha male. And so it was during the fifth month, just the start of the rainy season. And that's when the termites fly, the princes and princesses fly from the nest to form new colonies. And turns out that chimpanzees love termites. So at this time of year, the worker termites have enlarged the tunnels to this near the surface, ready for the fertile insects to fly out. And so there was David Graybeard. I watched him in amazement through my binoculars, and I saw him scratch the soil from the entrance to one of these tunnels, pick A long stem of grass, push it down into the nest, pull it out with termites clinging to it, munch them on, off, push it down again. And then I saw him pick a leafy twig and strip the leaves. And at that time, Western science maintained that only human beings used and made tools. In fact, we were defined as man the toolmaker. And so when I told Louis Leakey what I'd seen David Graybeard using and making, because by modifying the twigs he was making tools. And so Lewis sent back a telegram saying, ha, now we must redefine man, redefine tool or accept chimpanzees as human. But it was that observation that enabled him to go to the National Geographic Society in America. And they agreed to fund the research when my original 6 months money ran out. And they also sent a photographer and filmmaker, Hugo Van Loewick, because by the time he came, I was really beginning to learn I could get close to more chimps. David Grie had helped, I think, because if he was in a group when I approached, expecting them to run away, and he sat there calmly, I suppose they started to think, she can't be so frightening after all, because David was a leader, they looked up to him and respected him. He was calm and gentle.

Let's talk about the future a little. So what is your vision for how we're going to go forward from where we are today?

If we all know where we are today, we're facing disaster if we don't get together and change our ways, if we carry on with business as usual, if we continue to exploit the finite resources of our planet as though they're infinite, if we continue to have this crazy belief we can have unlimited economic development on a planet with finite natural resources and thinking in short term, gain rather than long term health of the planet and indeed our own future and the future of life on Earth as we know it. So we need to get together and somehow create a new relationship with the natural world of which we are a part and on which we depend, and a new, more sustainable and greener economy. Don't ask me how we do that, but that's what we have to get together and work out. And we are gifted with amazing intellects. So if we really, really want to create a good future for our great grandchildren, that's what we must do. Get together, discuss, find ways. And it's beginning to happen. That's the encouraging thing. Businesses are beginning to try and conduct their business in a more environmentally friendly way. People are beginning to think about their own environmental Footprint. So it is beginning to happen.

If I'm listening to this and I'm thinking, okay, Jane, I want to help, what can one person do? Something tactical, practical. Not everybody's going to be a Jane Goodall or Greta Thunberg. So what can a random person listening to this do to help?

Quite honestly, it depends on who that random person is. Because some people, I know a number of them, they're making a whole lot of money. And if we live to make money, it's not a very good thing to do unless we are making money to help make the world a better place. So people like that can make donations to organizations that are fighting for conservation, for preventing the loss of any more animal species than we've lost already, for slowing down climate change, for alleviating poverty. But the ordinary person who doesn't have masses of money in their wallet every single day, we make some impact on this planet. And we get to choose. Unless we're living in poverty, we get to choose what sort of impact we make. And a lot of people feel helpless and hopeless because they think it's just me. The world is going to hell in a hand basket. I think that's the expression, and there's nothing I can do about it. And the big problem is people are told to think globally. But if you think globally, you can't help but be depressed. I mean, it is depressing what we're doing to the planet, but act locally, yes, do what you can in your own community. And whether it's thinking about what you buy, where was it made? Did it have to travel far, using up lots of fossil fuel? Did it harm the environment? Was it cruel to animals like the terrible factory farms? Is it cheap because of child slave labor or unfair wages in another country? And if people start making ethical choices, obviously one person won't make that much difference. But when millions or billions of people are making ethical choices, it will make a difference. And then there's consumer pressure. If a company is not behaving ethically, don't buy the products. Try and buy organic food that hasn't poisoned the land with agricultural chemicals. And it might cost a little bit more, but honestly, if it costs a little bit more, you will value it more and you'll waste less. And the waste of food is absolutely shocking around the world, and yet there are people starving without even one good meal a day. This is the kind of mess we got ourselves into, and this is the kind of mess that we must use our intellect and our head with our heart to try and put Things right.

From your work with the chimpanzees, do you think that humans and chimpanzees have some kind of built in aggression into the DNA and we're doomed to be aggressive and at war, zero sum game combating each other.

The reason Leakey sent me to study the chimps is because he believed, and now it's been proven pretty well, that about 6 million years ago we shared a common ancestor, an ape like, human like creature. And so Lewis argued, if Jane sees behavior in chimps today that's similar or the same as in people, then perhaps it was also in that common ancestor and perhaps we've brought those traits with us and our long evolutionary pathways. So do I think that there are aggressive tendencies in humans innately? Yes I do. But the difference from chimpanzees who are on occasions extremely aggressive, even have a kind of warfare, kill each other. But the difference is that we've got this intellect, we can speak to each other, we've developed a spoken language, we can sit down and work out a moral code. And again, we just need to find ways of living together in harmony with each other and with nature. And people are always trying to do that. There's all these peace movements and everything, but there is that aggressive streak and unfortunately some people haven't learned to control it. Sometimes in our language we say things like oh I could kill him, but we don't mean that, we don't mean it. And we control most of our aggressive impulses. We might feel like punching somebody and people who get drunk do, but I mean for the most part we do control our aggressive behavior, don't we? Don't you think?

I do. I think that a lot of it is the perspective of journalists that bad news sells and community living in peace is not exactly a headline story. So it's very difficult to truly know what's going on in total as opposed to the negative highlights. I think that is for sure.

Yes, I completely agree. There's all this fake news and you know, the Internet is wonderful if you use it wisely, but it does lead to an awful lot of all this hate stuff coming out and there's no control over it. But when I was traveling around the world, you know, I got to meet so many amazing people and visit so many incredible projects where places that we've destroyed given a chance, nature can take over again and life can come back. And so people actually do want good news stories. And I'm always telling journalists if I ever have a press conference or an interview, your job is to give good news time, not only the bad news. And we do need to know what's going on. That's harmful, but we do need to know all the amazing things that are going on as well, because that gives you hope. And only if you have hope will you bother to take action to do something about it. If you don't have hope, why bother?

It sounds like you're fundamentally an optimistic and I bet people would love to know. How do you keep the faith in the face of so much that's going wrong right now?

Well, yeah, I am an optimist and I'm also a very obstinate sort of person. The more I hear these bad things, the more determined I feel that these, these bad people shall not win. And that means trying to find your reasons for hope. And I've already said one, that's our intellect. We can get together and discuss. And we are creating solar and wind power and clean green energy so that we can move away from fossil fuels once we get rid of the leaders who keep opening up coal mines, even knowing that's the worst, most contaminating fossil fuel for the greenhouse gases. But anyway, so we've got our intellect and if we use it wisely, we can get out of the mess. And then there's the resilience of nature. Nature coming back, rescuing animals on the very brink of extinction. In Europe we've got this rewilding and it's actually amazing. And in Canada you've got a wonderful example of what is it? Sudbury, Sudbury, that was totally, totally, totally destroyed. And now it's green and lush and the animals have come back. In America, there's Yellowstone. All over the world there are places like this. So nature's incredibly resilient. But then my main reason for hope is the youth. So we have this program for young people, Roots and Shoots, which is now in almost 60 countries. It's been in other countries, but sometimes the leader, the person who started it, moves on or dies or something and it fades away. But nevertheless, many young people have been changed forever when they join Roots and Shoots, because its main message is that every individual makes a difference every day. Every individual has a role to play. And every group chooses three projects because it's all interrelated. I learned that in the rainforest. One project to help people, one project to help animals, one project to help the environment and the wonderful. And by the way, it's kindergarten, university, everything in between. We're beginning to get the staff of major corporations starting their own Roots and Shoots group. So it's really for everyone, but basically youth. And so these young people are encouraged to choose the projects that they want to work on. So it's not a top down, it's bottom up. It's grassroots, it's flexible. It'll grow differently depending on the age of the of the members, depending on the environment that they're in, the country they're in, the religion and so on. So it's flourishing. It's all over China. We've got about 2,000 groups in China. It's everywhere in Tanzania. It's all throughout the uk it's in, I think every single state in America is right across Canada, including working with First Nation people. It's moving ahead quite fast in the Middle East. We just started Jane Goodall Institute in India and another one in Turkey and another one is about to be registered in Israel. There are about 30 Jane Goodall Institutes, but then Roots and shoots in about 60 countries. So the young people are changing the world. They really are. It's amazing. Their energy, their commitment, their determination. They choose their project, discuss how to do it, roll up their sleeves and take action.

Hallelujah. Right? Hallelujah. I. I hope it continues to happen. And listen to people who are listening now. If you want to support her efforts, just Google Roots and Shoots. And Jane, I'm sure you'll be happy to take their support, right?

I'd be happy to take their support. I'll be even happier if they will involve their children, grandchildren, friends, children in the program because this is what we need. What I'm caring about is the future of this beautiful planet, saving what's left. I've got grandchildren, could have great grandchildren soon, I think, and I care about their future. And so we need a critical mass of young people, not only Roots and Shoots. Any youth program that has the same goals and mission. We need a critical mass that understands, yes, we need money to live. It's when we live for money, it goes wrong. And we need a new definition of what it means to be successful at the moment. It's power and money. And that's not what I see as a successful person.

If that's what you don't see as a successful person. How do you define a successful person?

Somebody who makes enough money to supply them with what they need. And if they have a family to look after their family and if they make a lot of money to reach out, as so many people are doing now, to support organizations that are working in the field, on the ground, and who can be happy, people who have time to smell the roses, as the saying goes. And you go to a poor part of, of Africa and the people don't have very much at all. Some of them are just making money each day enough to eat. But you go there in the evening and they've lit their little fires and they're singing and they're laughing and they're having fun and we don't have enough time in our crazy world. We're always looking at emails and children are not in nature anymore. They're just looking at their little, little cell phones and their whatsapping and messaging and doing all these things that I don't do. And they should be out in nature learning from life, not learning from these stupid little screens. I've got my eyes shut now, so I'm not looking at this little screen.

You've traveled all around the world. Can you give us your impression? Do you think that people are more similar or more different as you go from country to country?

Oh, they're more similar without any question. And that's the wonderful thing that's come out of our roots and shoots. Because as often as we can, we bring young people together. Usually it's just within the country or even the city, but we try to bring people from different backgrounds together as much as we can from different countries. Usually virtually, but not always. And just coming out of this program is a feeling of. Much more important than the color of your skin or your culture, your religion, your socioeconomic group is the fact we're all humans. We laugh, we cry our tears, and our laughter is the same. And if we hurt ourselves, we bleed. And our blood is the same. I mean, our blood actually is the same. So that is tremendously important. People are more the same than they are different. And the worrying thing is that the way a child is brought up really makes a big difference. And so some children are brought up in societies where violence is condoned. And you know, these religious differences. It's not that the basic underlying religion that's causing all this hate, the hate between Muslims and Christians and Jews and all the rest of it, it's the fanatics within those religions. Because the basic tenet of every single major religion is the same golden rule, do to others as you would have them do to you. And I include animals in that because we know they're sentient, they have feelings like we do. They can feel happy and sad. They have personalities, they have problem solving capabilities, they're adaptable. So when we think of these factory farms, the wildlife markets where COVID 19 actually began in this Unhygienic, cruel, wet wildlife market in China, but there's wildlife markets across Asia in Africa and Latin America. We ship animals around the world as exotic pets. They all take their bacteria and their viruses with them, which is why 75% of new human diseases to emerge are from animals. And we create the conditions that make it easy. So when you think of a factory farm or trafficking animals or species being exterminated or sports hunting, we're talking about individual animals with personalities and with feelings of fear and terror. But they could be feelings of joy, and they all feel pain.

Which leads me to ask a question that I'm just very curious about. What do you think about zoos? Do they help educate people about animals or are they fundamentally imprisoning animals and they're not a good thing?

It honestly depends on the zoo. And of course, I'm asked this a lot. The really good zoos, they do a lot of good. They have very, very good education programs. They raise money for conservation on the ground in the countries where their animals come from. They have excellent veterinarians who get a lot of practice with treating exotic animals. And more and more zoos are sending their qualified vets out to programs in the field to train people there and lend their expertise. The really good Siouxs, they have good enclosures, they have staff who care, who understand really important. They understand the need for enrichment. By that I mean, just imagine being in a small space with nothing to do. That's what really upsets human prisoners. It might be even worse for animals. Maybe they have less ability to think outside the prison, so to speak. So now the good sous, this enrichment, animals aren't just given their food. They have to work for it. They have to solve problems, obviously depending on the species, but they need enough space. They need a good social group, and they need people who understand them and give them the right food. And the good Sioux are doing that.

Did you know that the Secretary of the Interior in the Biden administration is a Native American?

Did you? Yes, I. Indeed I did know.

Is. Is that just not the greatest story ever?

Yeah, because the. These indigenous people, they understand the natural world. I love with the Native Americans, they say the animals, the birds and the fishes and the. And the mammals and the trees and the flowers, and some of them, even the rocks and the mountains, they're our brothers and sisters. We're all one with creation. And that is how we need to think about it. We're part of this amazing tapestry of life.

You know, we first encountered each other back at Stanford. Believe it or not. I was a student, you were a professor, and already you were just remarkable. I have to say that our friendship is one of the most valuable things in my life. I appreciate you doing this again on Clubhouse and wow, can I just be a little bit of a fanboy for a while?

You are being.

And one of the stories that I like the most is that when you went back and you told other biologists that, you know, you had established friendships with the chimpanzees and you observed that they use tools and, and rather than thinking of you as pushing forward the edge of science and making discoveries, didn't they summarily reject you because, I don't know, you're a woman and you didn't have a PhD in biology. So let's talk about that. What happened there?

What happened is that after I've been with the chimps about one and a half years, I get this letter from Louis Leakey saying I have to go to university, I have to get a degree, because I'll have to stand on my own two feet to get money and I'll need a degree for that. And there's no time for an undergraduate degree. And he's got me a place in Cambridge University to do a PhD in ethology. I didn't even know what ethology was. Study of behavior. But anyway, when I got there, as you say, I was told I'd done everything wrong. Shouldn't have given the chimps names, they should be numbered. That's scientific. And you can't talk about them having personalities, minds or emotions, because those are unique to us and you mustn't on any account have empathy with them because then you can't be scientifically objective and your science will never be any good. But you know, fortunately I had this great teacher when I was a child, my dog Rusty. And he taught me that the professors were wrong. So as usual, I didn't confront them, I didn't argue with them, I just went on writing about it in the way that I knew was right. And then of course, there was Hugo's film. And when Hugo's film started coming out into the open, the scientists just had to realize that I was right.

Wait, wait, how did Rusty, your dog, teach you this? This is a new story.

Well, no, it's, it's not. If you share your life in a meaningful way, they have personalities. Do you have any animals, Guy?

Let's.

Well, I know a lot of the listeners will, and I bet you any.

Any listener dogs, that's for sure.

Yes, yes, this is what I mean. A dog or a cat, could be a bird, a pig, a horse, I don't care what it is. But if you have an animal and you allow that animal to be part of your life, then you know quite well we are not the only beings with personalities, minds and emotions. And so I knew. But then of course the chimps, they're so like us. Kissing, embracing, holding hands, forming these long term relationships, good mothers, bad mothers, close family relationships, using tools, all these things. So it was just very clear that these professors were wrong. And anyway, they'd never been out looking at wild animals. They mostly studied birds, did nasty things to them, like deafening them to see if they still learned their instinctive song. Not nice things.

Jane, we've had you for 38 minutes and I know it's late where you are, we're going to wrap this up, but I would love if you would just have a few closing remarks and say goodbye to the hundreds or thousands of people who are listening to you right now. The stage is always Jane, Just bring it on home.

First of all, Guy, let me say I value the opportunities that you've given me to share a message. I think this is the, probably the fourth time that this has happened and it's people like you. And I'm sure that probably every single one of the people listening in is a much better person than a much worse person. There's far more good in people than bad in people, I'm convinced of that. And when they do behave in violent ways, that's their upbringing most of the time, or things they've experienced in life. So to end up, to wrap up, then I think everybody needs to become involved, everybody needs to find something to do. And if you can go to bed each night and think, I didn't do that much today, but I think I made the world a little bit better. And that's simple. Things like making somebody smile, we don't smile enough. We see people with drawn, worried faces and sometimes you can just smile at them and they smile back. We're getting afraid to smile these days. And you can bother to report if you see an animal being abused, you can give water to a dying plant. Just the little things, choose what to buy. And I think if everybody behaves like that, and if everybody realizes that truly and honestly what you do each day does make a collective difference, then we shall be moving towards a better world. And maybe some of the people listening have children or grandchildren. Think about their future. Think about how what you do every day will affect their future. For the better or the worse. Think about the fact that if we carry on with business as usual, their future is going to be very grim indeed. If the world continues to heat up, if we go on losing the biodiversity, which I like to think of as the web of life, that's much more, much nicer picture than biodiversity, which some people don't even understand. But we can't go on destroying this web of life. It gives us healthy ecosystems. And if people remember that we actually are part of the natural world and depend on it for clean air, clean water, for food, for shelter, for everything. And I can't forget. And I'll end up by saying that I have many Native American friends and actually indigenous people in other countries, too. But one of the most wonderful gifts I was given was by a Native American chief of the Cherokee tribe. And sometimes you're honored in a naming ceremony, and it is a great honor if they give you a name in their language. And so I was honored with a Cherokee name and the translation of the word is sister of Mother Earth. And what, what more wonderful gift could you have? So I have to fight every day. I have to fight every day for my sister. But we're all sisters of Mother Earth and brothers of Mother Earth. Think of it that way and act that way. That's how I would sum it up.

Believe it or not, Jane was the first guest. I discovered something. Jane magic of Google search engine. If you typed in Jane Goodall plus the word remarkable, guess what? It finds that episode. So if you want more Jane, listen to that episode. And Jane, it's always an honor and a privilege and fun to be online with you. Post pandemic anytime you need me as your fireside chatter. I'm there for you, Jane, anytime you want. It's an honor and a privilege.

Thank you, Guy. And next time, I'm going to put you on the spot and ask you all the questions. Okay?

I'll be on your podcast.

Yeah, that's right.

Speaking of Jane does have a podcast. So look for Jane's podcast and also remember rootsandshoots.org if you want to help her and her quest to and help Mother Earth.

And by the way, yes, Sister of Mother Earth. The. The podcast is called Hope Cast.

What a great name.

Isn't that a good name? That was Dan Dupont, director of communication. That's a super name. So I do hope casts. You do podcasts.

That's why you're Jane Goodall and I'm merely Guy Kawasaki. So we'll let you go to sleep now. I hope this is the last thing you have to do today. It's getting late there, right?

No, actually, I hate to say it, but I have a Zoom call at 11pm What? With who? With my special people in Asia. And if I do it earlier, they have to get up at three in the morning and I don't want them to do that. And I'm always awake at 11 o' clock anyway, so I thought it's kinder to them to do a zoom at 11. Then I can have a whiskey.

Speaking of whiskey, have you used that whiskey glass I bought you?

Oh, indeed I have used that whiskey glass absolutely many times.

I think it's a positive that when I saw a whiskey glass, I thought of you.

Jane, we are very positive. Absolutely. You can think of me when you see the whiskey too. Never mind the glass.

All right, Jane, we'll let you go get ready for the Asians on Zoom. So thank you very much and I'm sure all of the audience here appreciates you taking the time and making this effort and bringing some love into our lives. Love and laughter today. Thank you so much, Jane. Take care.

Yes, and you too, Guy. And everybody listening, Lots of love to everybody. We need to spread love, hope, happiness, laughter. Then we'll have a better world. Bye. Bye.

I hope you enjoyed listening to Jane as much as I enjoyed interviewing her. She's always such a pleasure to work with. If you would like to help Jane, or as her friends call her, sister of Mother Earth, please go to rootsandshoots.org I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. My thanks to Jeff C. And Peg Fitzpatrick for another remarkable episode of the Remarkable People podcast. Remember, this podcast is sponsored by the Remarkable Tablet Company. When you need a writing and note taking device that can help you focus on the remarkable tablet is your answer. Mahalo and aloha. This is remarkable people.