Frederick Joseph: Author, Philanthropist, and Educator

Here's something remarkable and not in a good way. Disengaged employees cost US companies almost $1.9 trillion a year.

That's a lot of zeros.

Why? Because when teams lack the right skills, productivity declines, turnover increases, and strategies stagnate.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

At Project Management Institute, home of the PMP and globally recognized certifications, your people.

Can learn to collaborate, deliver on time.

And actually get things the cost of not upskilling way higher than the investment Project Management Institute. Find the answers@pmi.org hello, I'm Jane Goodall and I just want to tell you that I've been on Guy's podcast twice now and had a great time and I really hope that you'll listen to it. Of course, especially the one when I'm on. But the other two. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable, people. I'm on a mission to make you remarkable. Today's guest is Frederick Joseph. He is the founder and CEO of We have Stories. This is a nonprofit creative agency that supports projects to foster greater equality in the world. In this episode, honestly, you'll see how little I know about the current black culture. But at least I know what I don't know and I'm willing to learn. Frederick created the largest GoFundMe campaign in history. It was called the Black Panther Challenge. It raised over $950,000, and it allowed more than 75,000 children worldwide to see Black the Movie for free. Frederick was a national surrogate for the Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders presidential campaigns and was selected for the Forbes under 30 list in 2019. He was a member of the 2018 Route 100 list of most Influential African Americans and the winner of the 2018 Comic Con Humanitarian of the Year award. Fredrick is the New York Times best selling author of the Black Friend on Being a Better White Person and his new book is called Patriarchy Reflections on Manhood. The Black Friend is fantastic. Every teenager should read it. Getting a book with that title pass the censors in the many fiefdoms, AKA states in the United States these days. At the end of the interview, I thought I came up with a brilliant idea for Snoop Dogg and the NFL, but Frederick trumped me by a factor of 10. Don't miss this Drop the mic moment. It may be the funniest moment in the history of the Remarkable People podcast and Snoop Dogg, if you're listening, have your people contact my people. And for those of you who are going to stop listening to my podcast because of this episode. Have a happy rest of your life. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. And now here is Frederick Joseph, a remarkable black friend. One of my goals in life is that you come out of this interview thinking that Guy prepared more than any other person I've ever spoken to and asked the best questions.

So first and foremost, the fact that you read both my books, you've already prepared more than everyone I've interviewed with over the last five years combined. I, I, so it's funny, I come from the generation where people focus on one thing as opposed to the totality of a person a lot of times. And so people, like, read the first book or the second book or see a philanthropic thing I did, and they're like, oh, I didn't even think to check anything else about you as a person. So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I can't tell you. I read every single page and underline everything, of course.

But you like, yeah, yeah, but you, yeah, you did, you did what was necessary to get the gist of the things. And that makes perfect sense.

I guarantee you. I prepared more than 99.99.

Well, that, that makes it. Well, it makes a lot of sense based on who you are. Also, you don't get to, you don't get to be at the point you are in your, in your career, in life without being, being an extremely prepared person. So I appreciate it.

You may get further. But anyway, did you ever tell your grandmother about the whole shoplifting thing? I mean, you said it was like, you know, you lied to your grandmother. Did you ever come come clean and tell her the whole story?

I, I didn't. I, I like to think I would have. My grandmother actually passed when I was 18. She passed a breast cancer. So she actually didn't even get to see me graduate from high school. But I figured that there would be this moment where I would tell her everything that I was doing as a younger person. I never got the opportunity to do that, though. But she knows, she knows. She's, she, wherever she is now, she knows.

You know, she, she probably knew already.

There's this, like, thing that mothers and grandmothers have. They just, oh, like, I'm pretty sure that every single thing I've ever written about in my book, she knows for the most part and knew at the time. And, and she's, yeah, you know what? When he's ready to tell me, he'll tell me. And, and that's what it is.

I don't know if you really answered this, but when you were in Amsterdam. And that person asked you, so you live in a country where there's a. A racist president and cops are killing black people, et cetera, et cetera. Why don't you and Porsche move? Have you figured out the answer to that question?

I think that I've thought about it a lot, especially as I was writing Patriarchy Blues. Like, why not move? And I think so my. My book after Patriarchy Blues, Better Than We Found it, which you did not get to read yet because it's not available yet. But that book that I wrote with Portia made me ask that a lot, right? Like, if all these things are wrong, why not leave? But I think that this country was built on the backs of my ancestors, the backs of indigenous people, the backs of people of color as a whole. And there seems to be something inside of me that says that that makes it worth fighting for. This country belongs as much to black, brown, AAPI people as it does any white supremacist. So that makes me want to stay and fight for it. I might need a break, right? I might need some time away. I think some of the greats before us have done that, the James Baldwins and people of that nature. But I'm going to always fight for our people, people of color, to be liberated in this country.

Kind of a personal question that violates hipaa, but how's your ms?

Well, it's a lovely question that a lot of people violate hipaa very often, if I'm being really transparent. I had Covid for the second time a few months ago, and I was really, really sick. And I'm. I'm right now dealing with some of the long Covid effects from that and it being worse because of my immunocompromization with Ms. So I have my days, right? Like, today's a good day. Like, before we jumped on to go for a run and breathe. And it was the first time in maybe months that I felt like I could breathe. But. But then yesterday morning, I could barely feel my hands. I had lost sensation in them when I woke up in the morning. So all the writing I had planned to do that day and the edits on books and things, I couldn't even do it. I just had to lay down and kind of just hope that it subsided.

I read the Day in the Life of Frederick, and, you know, like, you get up, you take your dog, you come back, you take your dog, then you're too tired and your Ms. Kicks in and you can't type. How did you write a book between the Two books that I read. It was only a couple years. So how did you write the second book with all those conditions?

Funny enough, I actually wrote three books this year. So the Black Friend I wrote in 2019. But I've wrote Patriarchy Blues better than we found it. And I also wrote the picture book that's coming out for Black Panther 2 with Marvel Studios. My grandmother is probably what gives me some extra jolt of when I have the ability to write and do work. She just kind of like her soul pours into me and I just go, right. I think her being a black woman from South Carolina, facing all the things that she did, I grew up with that pumping through my veins. My mother's a hard worker. So whenever I'm feeling good, I'm on a thousand, not even a hundred. I'm on a thousand those days, and I feel good, I just go and. Yeah. So I guess I don't know if that's necessarily a good answer, but it's the answer. When I feel good, I go.

I read two of those three books, and there is a couple years between the two books that I read. And I have to say that the change in your writing is just kind of remarkable and astounding. Now, I read your first book first, and I have to say I just love the little zingers and the gray bars. You have perfected zingers and gray bars. And to be quite transparent, when I read your second book, I was so looking forward to more zingers and gray bars. But you've changed as the writer. So what happened in those two years that you like, zoomed on the maturity scale or something? I'm not trying to insult you.

No, no, no, not at all.

Wow, you changed.

I think one thing that people didn't realize about the first book, it's. It's a young adult book. So the intended age is actually 12 and up for the black friend. That's intended. That's. That book is primarily in classrooms with teachers, things like that. So I do think that because of the fact that people didn't realize that when you read it, you're not realizing, oh, I'm writing for 12 year olds, like to make it accessible for them. Patriarchy Blues. For me, it's a highly conceptual. It's a different style of writing. I play with a lot of different things in it, from poetry to messing around with my prose and essays and things of that nature. And there was a lot happening. I'm a different person also in that book. But I do think that then I go Right. Back to the Black Friend style somewhat in my next book after that. So I think I want to have a career where people don't ever kind of put me in a box. I. I want to shock people. I think I love the Black Friend style. I actually think that the Black Friend would make a really good television show with the, like the, The Breaking the fourth wall and anecdotes and things like that. But I like to keep people on their toes.

So first of all, Queen Latifah has to play your grandmother. I mean, if that comes true, I.

Can definitely see that.

Right, right.

I could definitely see that.

You forget this equalizer bullshit now. You're my grandmother. That's an action hero.

I love, I love that. I love that idea. If, you know, I think about that all the time, like casting. And I actually know who I will want playing me as well. So it's so funny. So. Yeah. Have you ever seen the show Blackish?

Okay. Just as an aside, I learned more about black culture in the last two days reading your books. 67 years of my life. Like, just to show you the extreme, I didn't know who Nelly was until three days ago.

Like, wait, what? Wait, that's literally impossible. So I can see, like, Asian American.

How do I know?

I hear. I. I hear you. I hear you. I think that everything is generational. Also, Nelly was like the. I don't know. Nelly was like that. Well, you know, Drake is of course, right. Like, yeah, Nelly was like the Drake of the early 2000s. Like, he was massive, but he was. He was massive in space. I mean, you were, you were super busy during that time, taking over the world and whatnot. So. So for just for context, I don't know if this was mentioned beforehand, but I've also read your books. But not only did I read your books, but I've. I read one of your books when I was in grad school getting my MBA in marketing. How funny is that?

Oh, my. And you still agree to the interview? You know, just to back up a little bit, may I point out that should I take it as an insult that I loved Black Friend and that's intended for 12 year olds?

I mean, no, no.

You know, I have a 12 year old brain.

Not at all. I think that I. I think that in all honesty, I think that most of us. How can I put this? I think that there are books that are written as pieces of art and that is something that resonates with people in a different way. And I think that's patriarchy blues. Like patriarchy Blues is intended for very specific people who are willing to, like, sit with. But the black friend, I wrote it to be fun. Like, I wrote the black friend to be conversational. I wrote the black friend so we can do things like this and kind of, for lack of a better term, shoot the shit and talk about, like, issues. So that makes perfect sense to me.

So what you're saying is that black friend was targeted to Guy and patriarchy was targeted to Terry Gross. I understand that.

You know, I'm not stupid.

I'm a quick study. So I also have to tell you, just fanboying out a little more, that I love the Encyclopedia of. Of. Of racism. It's not good to laugh about something like that, but that was a freaking fantastic idea. So the gray bar and the Encyclopedia of Racism, and then I'm gonna read you quote that. When I read this, I had to laugh out loud. Okay? So the quote is, if you feel you don't need to read this book because you're already a decent white person, there's a good chance you're not as decent as you think. Holy.

I love this guy. I mean, that's. I mean, that's real, right? I think that all of us have our privileges in our own ways, and all of this something that all of us don't know. So the very moment that you get to this idea that everything you need to know about another group or about whatever, that's when you have the real issue, right? Like, I want to come on here, and you'd be like, oh, Fred, I didn't know certain things about black communities, right? In the same way I can tell you, Guy, I. I learned so much when. When the moment really rose of stop. Asian hate. I learned so much during that moment, and I hate that it had to come in that moment. But, like, all of my friends that are in the AAPI community taught me a lifetime worth of things, and that's the way it works. We all are in our spaces, and we have to step outside of them.

So, speaking of stepping outside, so exactly what is a good man? Oh.

Oh, I think that's difficult. I. I was having a conversation earlier with a high school class. I was. I was having a high school. You're hilarious. I was having a conversation with a class of high school students, about 200 students, I guess. That's not a class. It was like a bunch of classes. And one of the things that got brought up was, like, kind of a similar question, like, oh, what makes you a good person? Not necessarily a man, but A good person. I think that the two are the same thing. I think I view the world through harm reduction. I think that people are inherently imperfect. Anybody who tells you that they're perfect is lying. Men are going to be imperfect, imperfect women are going to be imperfect. People who are heterosexual are going to be imperfect, so on and so forth. But as long as you're choosing daily as a man, specifically to your question, to be better, right. To every single day choose to be a little bit better than you were yesterday. Better about misogyny, better about homophobia, better about transphobia. It doesn't mean that you'll ever be the, the, the, the, I don't know, Grand Pumbaa of, of wokeness or something like that. But it does mean that you're trying to reduce the amount of harm that you cause in the world. And that to me is being a good man.

So how does one become one?

I think a lot of time and self reflection. I think that you have to wake up and decide that that's what you want to be. That's the first step. I write about that in Patriarchy Blues. I have been many things in my life. At times I've been deeply misogynistic. At times I've been someone super uneducated about other communities, the trans community and the gay community. But I made a decision one day to try to learn more in my teens and twenties. So I did. And I'm learning more as the days go by. So reading books, watching documentaries, being in conversation, sharing space like things like this, like being in common, literally being in conversation with people who are not like yourself and come from different backgrounds and different experiences is how we grow. So I think that those are the steps. Put yourself in spaces and make yourself a little bit uncomfortable.

Do you think that you can become a good man without a father or father figure?

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I like to think that I'm a good man in progress. I'm doing everything that I can. And my father wasn't around. And I write about that in Patriarchy Blues. I write a letter to him. He left when I was a child. He was very abusive towards my mother and things like that. And I think I was lost for a long time because I didn't have necessarily a man in my life that was kind of overseeing my progress into manhood. But I do think that along the way, thanks to really powerful women and other men kind of stepping up, who are fathers of some of my friends and uncles and things like that, it really set me on the path eventually.

Listeners won't necessarily understand this context. So when you answer this question, you're gonna just have to, like, cover for my poor question. Okay, but I want to know. Oh, and before I ask you the question, I also have to establish that I know that as a fighter, you are 38 and 2. Okay. Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, Frederick Joseph, 38 and 2. What's your advice when you see, quote, Tweedledum and Tweedledee harassing a black trans person?

That is a hell of a question. So. So if I see two, they don't even have to be white. If I see two problematic men harassing a black trans woman or a black trans person in general, young me would opt for punching them in the back of the head. I don't think we should do that.

38 and 2.

Right. And an older, wiser, more thoughtful me step in and have a conversation. Go back to that harm reduction that I was talking about a few minutes ago, and. And just step in and protect that person. So if it does escalate to certain things, then you handle it as you need to. But I do think that placing yourself emotionally, physically, mentally in a place where that person's harm is reduced and you're protecting that person means the world. Honestly, it can save a life also.

So you are saying you can't just look away. You're saying, step in there.

Yeah, Yeah. I think that that is. I say something in the black friend. One of my focus points is we don't need allies, we need accomplices. Right.

And going to come to that. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And. And I think that my view on the world is that a lot of people are inherently good. I think a lot of people want the world to. But those people have not never gotten their hands dirty being in the trenches to make it happen. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be at the. On the front lines of protests. It doesn't mean that you have to have a cardboard box every time something happens and you're outside yelling until you lose your voice. What it means is that you're stepping in and using your resources to do something. So I do think in moments where something's happening in front of you that can be deeply detrimental to the person being harmed, it is up to us to not just turn away. The other day, actually not to carry on, but I saw two young men. One seemed to be of Asian descent, another one was black, and they were being arrested near my house. And I live in a pretty affluent community in New York City, and they were being arrested. So I pulled over my car, and it was about 15 cops, right? So. And it was just two young boys, and there's 15 police officers. So I'm not gonna, like, run over and tackle the police officers. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna do any of that. But I' stand there so that the young men know that somebody's watching. Like, it's okay. Like, calm down and let the police also know. Like, hey, I'm a member of this community. I live here. Can you tell me what's going on? Is everything okay? I'm just trying to make sure that based on historical context, that these young men are going to safely make it to whatever destination you're going to bring them to. And. And that should be fine. And it's the little things like that that could actually save lives.

So did you whip out your camera?

So I had my. So I had my phone in my hand. I do think that in certain instances, the police weren't harming them. There seemed to be a disproportionate number of police necessary for them, which made me want to have my camera in hand. But I kind of gestured so that they knew, like, hey, I'm holding a phone. And I think that there's underlying knowledge amongst pretty much everybody now what that means, so I don't have to escalate the situation. And I think that that's an important thing to realize. Like, if we're thoughtful about our interactions and the things happening to. We don't necessarily have to escalate the interactions as much as step in to try to make sure that they are, again, reducing harm.

Just in case 15 body cams happen to malfunction simultaneously.

Right? Exactly. At the exact same time. Because it started, right? Yep. Yep, Exactly.

So now I hesitate to ask this question, but I just have to. So what if you were there when George Floyd. And what would you have done?

That's a very. It's a difficult. It's a difficult question. I've thought about that a lot, actually. I've. I've thought about it very deeply because I've been in situations where the police have been overly violent with people, overly violent with me. I'm someone who's a victim of stop and frisk in New York City when I was in college and things like that. So I've thought about it a lot. I. I don't know. It's. It's hard. It's not a. It's not. It's a great question. It's hard to say because One part of me wants to say that I would, you know, film it and post it online, because I have to think, would I be someone who has a platform? Right. If I, as someone who has a platform, I would film it and be online. But if I see that it's not just about them harming him, it's about them murdering him. Right? So then I'm like, do I charge in and then potentially be murdered myself as well? So it's. It's a very difficult thing, but at the very least, I would have been filming, of course.

Okay, so do you believe in God?

I believe in a higher power. I grew up in a deeply Christian household. I. I went to Jesuit colleges. I studied theology, actually, in college. And. And the reason I studied theology is because I wanted to understand what I was trying to not necessarily align with anymore, if that makes any sense. So I started. I started learning about various religions. And at this point, I believe in. I believe there is a God. I think that. I think that we lose sight of the power of faith in the nuances of our hatred that we mask as faith. Right. I think that a lot of people who claim to be devout Christians, devout Muslims, devout, various religions don't actually align with their. Their doctrines.

Well, that is the freaking understatement of the century. You kind of write about the big three, right? So capitalist, patriarchal, white supremacists. Add the fourth Christian. You put those four things together. Can it get any worse than that? And those four things are often together.

Well, I. Those four things are actually the root of the nation, like that. They're literally at the core of this nation. There is no separation of church and state. Really. There's. There's no. And this. This nation. And. And being really frank, I was thinking back on how Christianity has been weaponized against people who were enslaved, weaponized against people who were put in internment camps, weaponized against people who are homosexual. Represents, you know, all these different groups. Like Christianity has been weaponized against them. So it has to make you at least sit back and think.

At the very least, the connotation of, quote, unquot evangelical really has changed in the last few years. Holy cow.

I mean, I mean.

Well, why exactly bringing a good word anymore.

I mean, they're bringing the good word of hatred. It's almost a lot of white Christian evangelicals in this country at this point. They're sitting in the pew with white pointy robes on, you know, and that's just really what it is. Supporting Putin, Supporting. Supporting Putin, supporting Trump, support. You know, it's it's, it really is just like, oh, we're going to do whatever we can to support white nationalism on a local and global scale. And that's just, that's just the baseline of it.

Okay. Did you ever find the video of the class throwing paper into the trash to illustrate what it's like to be black?

Somebody did find video. So it's funny because it was my first book. I didn't necessarily. One, I didn't expect anyone to buy the book. That's, that's number one. But, but people did buy the book and people continue to buy the book. And when people do buy your book, people like, reach out to you, they email you and DM you. And so people honed in on that aspect of the book. And I had at one point maybe like 75 emails like, is this the video? Is this the video? And one person actually did find it, but it was removed from YouTube for some reasons. I think it included students who hadn't agreed to be in a video. So they had, so they had the video, but they found it on some obscure website. But that was the issue that I didn't realize that, like, we have all these laws about students faces not being able to be shown if they're under a certain age. And it was a freshman class in a college. So, yeah.

So for the listener who's wondering what the hell video are they talking about, you just have to read the book. It is worth reading the book just, just to learn about this video, this professor's experiment with racism and feeling what it's like to be black.

It's a game changer. It really is a game changer. I think the world would be a better place if everybody did that same experiment like your freshman year, maybe not even freshman year of high school. The second you get to high school, make everyone start that same experience and do it with various marginalized communities just to put in perspective for the rest of your life.

We're not going to tell you any more about that video. If you're intellectually curious, you read the book. If not, then you're a loser. But anyway, so you go into great lengths about what's wrong with, quote, not seeing color. So please explain that.

Yeah, so I, I think that a lot of people assume that racism will just fade away if you somehow reduce people's identities. Right? Like, oh, we're all just human. But the reality of it is, is that racism a is a systemic thing. Just because you don't want to identify me as black doesn't mean that the world doesn't identify me as black. All you're doing by not identifying me as black is not supporting me. Basically, if, if, if I say, if I have a, a friend who's white and they're like, oh, I never saw you as black. I'm like, well, by doing that, you know, like. Right, right. That's pretty, pretty wild. But I, but you'd be surprised, guy, you know how many mean, like, people have read. People have read the book and said, oh, my God. People I went to high school with, oh my God, the entire time we were in high school, I just never thought of you as black. And like, that's so, that's so funny because the entire world did. And, you know, whatever. So that's one thing. These people are not supporting you by not seeing your race. That's actually doing a complete opposite. It's, it's, it's inherently allowing them to be like, no harm, no foul. I don't have to think about it. So I don't have to help if I don't think about it. So that's one aspect of it. But I think the other aspect is, and I write about this, I love being black. I love my culture. I want to be seen as black. Because being black is not the same thing as being white or being Japanese or being Ecuadorian or any of these different groups. We all have different cultures, and that's important. So it's not a matter of erasing and ignoring my culture and my race. It's a matter of appreciating my culture and my race. And that's what I ask people to do. Identify that I am black, and then think about what comes along with that, both good and bad.

There were several instances where I started taking notes, reading your books, and I said, you know what? Most moms or non black moms don't ever have to do this. So I'm going to read you the three that I saw and then you tell me if there's any more so that people listening to this who are not black moms understand what it's like to be a black mom. So I figured out that first, I don't think most moms force their kids to look at pictures of Emmett Till. Number one, no. Number two, I don't think most moms have to give the talk. And then the third story about your mom, which was, oh my God, it's the best story in the book, I think, is where your mom told you to go out and get your Pokemon cards back. So, I mean, is that what life is like for a black mom, because I am neither a mom nor black. But besides that, I can totally understand what do black moms have to do that non black moms don't have to do.

I think that black moms have to always consider the world that they're having their children go out into. So it's. So you're sending children out into a world that's not going to protect them, it's not going to coddle them. It's going to be not only harmful but really dangerous, like life threatening. So I think to the first example of showing me pictures of Emmett Till, you know, Emmett Till, Washington, a little older than me slightly when he was murdered. And so my mother has to consider that like in a world where, and that was before there was a Tamir Rice or, or a Trayvon Martin. So in a world where things like this happen from Emmett Till to Trayvon Martin, I'm somewhere right in between in terms of years. Any black child in this country, in this world can just as easily be one of these, one of these young people. So you have to consider that and then do whatever you can to help avoid that. So, so that's the first thing as a black bomb, I'd say the second thing. So the talk goes right along with the Emmett Till photos and things like that where it's like, look, the world is going to see you. Maybe not everybody, but you have to assume that the world's gonna see you as dangerous. Right. Like I guy have now, I've traveled around this entire world now I've been to maybe 35 countries and in each of them people were afraid of me. Just as a black person walking down the street. I'm about 6 foot 2. How I don't know what I weigh now, but I'm a big guy. But even if I wasn't, people are just afraid of this big black body, this black existence because they have been spoon fed this false reality about black people throughout their entire lives. And, and I, and I do think like even when you look at Rodney King years ago, that wasn't inherently just start, that wasn't started by a white person. I believe the shop owners were crazy Korean. Korean, yes. Yeah, but that, that's, that happens because they have been spoon fed this false sense of black people in their entire lives. So my mother had to have this conversation with me about how the world's gonna be me, but then more so police. Right? So if so now you have the world viewing this way. So then what happens when a Police officer grows up in that same way, sees black people as dangerous and they have a gun and they have a, they have a legal right to use that gun at will because they feel like you're dangerous, you know, so, so that's, that's, that's why that talk is so important. And, and then lastly, I think it's funny because these are all from different books. The, the last point about the Pokemon cards, people have to go read that story. This is where I think it's interesting because my mom specifically was a black mom who had to raise a child in poverty. So I, so I not only had to deal with being black, but I had to deal with being poor. And so the things that we had meant a lot because we didn't have much. So I had to learn an appreciation for that. And also, if people are going to try to take from you, people are going to try to again harm you, and you have to learn to stand up for yourself. And that lesson was important for me. And not every black mother has to teach it. But that lesson of going out and standing up for myself was a game changer.

How many, how many white moms would tell their kids, go out there and get those cards back?

You know, it's, it's interesting because my, my manager, great guy, Greg, he's, he's white. And, and I sometimes want to ask him questions like that because I, I, I, I wonder. He's a really, really great guy. His mom is a wonderful woman. And I wonder sometimes, like, did you just not have any similarities to me at all? And, and, and so I might have to, I might have to legitimately ask him, like, because he's a, you know, he's a pretty tough guy. You know, he's, he also is someone who lives with Ms. As well, as a matter of fact. So he's, he's also, but I'm pretty sure, like, if somebody slows Pokemon cards, it's kind of just like, oh, that sucks. That's a bad person. Keep going. But that lesson wasn't about the Pokemon cards for me. It was about, this is what society is going to do as a black person. So even though these were other little black kids, what are you going to do when it's a white teacher? What are you going to do when it's a white police officer? What are you going to do when it's a white executive at a company you're working at, so on and so forth. So I don't know if that lesson is the same, but I'll have to ask some white people.

I know this is going to stretch the bounds of my credibility, but I would really like you to explain. Let's call an idea for your next book Black Culture for White Dummies. Okay, let's suppose you write that book. Okay. So from the outside looking in as a. Obviously I'm not black and I'm not young, but can you just explain to me. And I'm not saying you're representing all black people about this, but yeah, yeah, there's some people I just do not understand. So you're gonna. You're gonna take the scales off my eyes and you're gonna tell me.

Sure, go right ahead.

WTF is with these people? Okay, so Kanye West.

Oh, that. You know, you jumping right in. You went to the deep side of the pool.

That's why I am who I am.

You know, I. I think Kanye is the embodiment of a few. I can't speak for Kanye in terms of. Of blackness now is I think that Kanye, somewhere along the way, actually started being more of a tool of white supremacy. I think Kanye's supportive Donald Trump and things like that. But I also think Kanye, like, has a lot of mental health issues. And I do think that in an interesting analysis, is that a lot of men, not just black men, but men as a whole, we're not really taught or given the space oftentimes to, like, actually unpack our pain and unpack our. Our issues emotionally. And when you don't do that, that people become either a, violent, B, reclusive, or C, like you said, wtf. And I do think that Kanye's now at wtf, right? Like, I think his, like, myriad of things with him are just like, yeah, I have no clue.

Clarence Thomas.

Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah, you stayed right there. I. First and foremost, blackness is not a monolith. But there's also a lot of money in being a token, letting people tokenize you for their own agendas. There's money in that. The existence of Clarence Thomas allows people to validate that they're not being racist. At times. Clarence Thomas agrees with us, and he's black. So somehow that discredits 10 million other Black people who are not Clarence Thomas. So I think that that's his thing. There's a lot of money in it. He's no different than Candace Owens or certain other people who have very anti black. Who's on the world? Yeah.

Fred Sanford in his role in Sanford and Sons.

A favorite show. A favorite show growing up. I think that Fred Sanford stood for the stereotypical trope of a black man during a specific era. I think maybe just a man in general. I think that really loud, brash, kind of hilarious at times. Absolutely hilarious. But I think that was how men were portrayed during the time. I think that he's very similar to the, the guy from the Honeymooners and, and to all these other, the guy from Love and Marriage and, and these father figures who are supposed to be like manly men. Funny, not very emotional. Like I said, crude. So I think he represents that and that was the error. So if he, he's a black man who was probably just true to the era.

Okay. This one is, is about a relationship because I just don't know how to, what to make of this. I think it's one of the most interesting relationships in the world right now. Which is, can you guess?

No, go ahead, go ahead.

Okay. Snoop Dogg and Martha.

Yeah. That they've, they've been friends now for what, like 20 years or something? Right? You know, I, I think, I think it's really interesting because, you know, I.

Know this didn't prepare you for these questions.

The funny thing is because I, because I, I know Snoop. So like, I, I know Snoop is a very eclectic person. Yeah.

Let me, let's, that's an Instagram quote.

Yeah, I, I, I, I think it's two people, Two people who are highly unlikely, who actually have a lot. Yes, that's also. Yes, that's like an under the understatement of the year. But I think that, I think that people have more in common than they will ever know. And we get divided based on like these surface level things. We're like, you know, like today someone said to me, what do you do in your free time? And I'm like, oh, I, I play. I've been playing games a lot and people. Oh my God, you game. I'm like, well, I don't just talk about racism. I don't, you know, like, like, you know, like, I don'. Just talk about the patriarchy and whatnot. So I think maybe Snoop and Martha have something like that where they just both really like weed. I don't really know.

Okay, okay, okay, okay. That, that really just, I'm zooming up to like, competency in black culture as I go through this interview. So I'm going to tell you a story and then you're going to tell me your reaction.

Okay.

So early in my career, not early mid career, I lived on Union street in San Francisco. Union street, where Dead ends in the Presidio, which is a Very nice. Basically all white part of San Francisco. So I, it's, I don't want to seem immodest, but, you know, you've kind of arrived when you lived there, right? So one day I'm outside and I'm trimming the bougainvillea hedge, and this older white woman comes up to me and says, do you do lawns? And I said to her, so because I'm Japanese, you think I'm the yard man, right? She goes, no, no, no. It's just you're doing such a great job that I want to know if you do lawns, because I need my lawn done. So. But wait, you know, this is not a story about stereotyping, although obviously there's some of that. But where it gets more interesting is two weeks later, my father shows up, visits me, and I tell him this story. I'm third generation, he's second generation, served in the US army, blah, blah, blah. So I tell him this story, and I fully expect him to just go off on her. You know, how dare this woman ask you if you're the yard man. You went to Stanford, you work for Apple, you've written books, blah, blah, blah. But instead he says to me, you know, son on Union Street, Japanese American guy cutting the hedge, most likely you were the yard man. So get over it. So I'll tell you this story because after reading your books, are you going to send me guy, your, your father was wrong. You should jump down people's throat. You, you should, you should take action. You should get involved. You should rip her for saying that. So what do you think? Was my father right or wrong?

I think that there's an in between. I, so I think that your father, for me, was wrong. But not in the sense that you had to jump down her throat, though. I, I, I think that your father, we all internalize certain things, and I'm very honest about this in the Black Friend, I internalize a lot of, of the other people's thoughts about me as a black person. So I was just like, oh, yeah, like, call me an Oreo, that's fine, right? Yeah, of course it's better than a coconut. But yeah, okay, so, like, ultimately we would all be wrong for not better seeing ourselves as more than other people see us. So that's where that is. But then in terms of how she should be responded to, I think that people are more uncomfortable with having real dialogue than having people jump down their throats sometimes. Right. So I think in that specific situation, been a real dialogue being had about, like, what you did was problematic. X, Y, and Z. And you could say whatever you want, but if I was a white guy doing the exact same thing, I highly doubt that you would. That that conversation might change her more than jumping down her throat. Jumping down her throat in other instances, like, if she just said something race, like overtly racist, like a slur, then you're not playing on the same playing field. Now, at that point, there's no human decency. So I kind of view the world through that. What is the. What is the playing field that you're playing on? And then have an appropriate response for that playing field.

Okay. Just so you know, my interpretation of what my father told me changed me dramatically. I mean, from since that day, it's been very hard to insult me. I just take the upper road. I just let it go right over my head, which may not be optimal, but, you know, that was the effect on me. Okay, so. Next question. So. So I'm really interested in this concept of appropriation versus appreciation.

Yeah.

And I just want to know, you know, is rap only for black people? If my son puts on a durag, is he appropriating your culture? If he wears his baseball hat backwards and has baggy pants, is that appreciation or appropriation?

So I think that it always depends on what it is. Right. I think in our society, sometimes we have conversations or think about things. We lack nuance. So let's use the example of let's use braids. Let's use, like, people here. Let's use that as a really good example. So braids specifically are. Have been worn by black people throughout time, especially people who are enslaved, because they would hide reins of rice in their braids. And that's one of the reasons that people wear braids. So without that context, you're actually taking from something that's a very serious part of somebody's culture that has a legacy of trauma and history and things like that, that without realizing it. So I think that that's where you get into the. The kind of meat and potatoes of situations where it's like, well, do you even realize what you're doing? Are you just doing something because it seems popular? In the same way, let's use someone wearing a sari. I have friends who are Southeast Asian, and they're just like, oh, yeah, well, if you come to my wedding, you got to wear this. This. And third, I'm like, okay, cool. But I have other friends who are also Southeast Asian. They're like, that's my culture. It's not A costume for someone who's not of the culture to wear. So the rule that I always have when it comes to, like, is it appreciation or appropriation? Because there's two different people on two different sides saying two different things is if it offends anybody, what's the point in doing it? That's my rule. Like, number one, I don't need to offend anyone. So, like, I remember a few years ago, I was actually really good example. I was doing kind of like a trip through various countries in Asia, and I had bought a kimono. And so I had what, this kimono. And I was, you know, looking forward to getting back home and wearing this kimono. But a friend of mine is like, we're watching a show, and she's just like, look at this white idiot with this kimono on. He doesn't even understand the history of it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yikes. Yeah, exactly. And I'm just like, yeah, I might not want to do that. Because then it becomes. That's where it does become appropriation. Right. I'm actually not. Not invested in the culture. I don't know any history of it, things like that. So I'm. I'm very big on historical context, investment in culture, and understanding what you're doing and why you're doing it. So that's the way I kind of view appropriation versus appreciation.

Wait, just. What, you were going to come back to New York and walk around New York in your kimono?

No, I was.

Okay.

I was. I was going. I was going to. I. I like to relax at home. It was a very nice, silky kimono. So I was gonna, like, weird. Wear it in the house, listen to some jazz.

Okay, Now I want to talk about the anor word. And in. In the book, you say the N word is not the same as the word cracker. And if you don't understand that, read chapter 10. So I read chapter 10, and I still am not clear. So can you just explain. Pardon my ignorance.

No, no.

Can you just explain this?

So the N word is one of the most harsh slurs in history because it's aligned and correlated to not only historic trauma, but current trauma. Right? Like, when people have been lynched, they are inwards. When people are shot by police, they're inwards. When you hear certain things happen, they are inwards. The N word reduces your very humanity. Something like the word cracker that's like. That has no historical context, really. It's not like black people or. Or Asians or Latinx people went around lynching white people and be like, hey, you take that cracker. There's no. There's nothing aligned with it. It's not like. It's not like communities of color have kept white people from getting jobs, have. Have been racist in medicine, racists in corporations, racist in this effort, and called them crackers. Like, oh, man, we're not giving that cracker this job. That's not. It's just not a real thing. There's so much heaviness in history aligned with the N word. Word that it's almost in this country unlike any other word that exists. I would actually say it's in ways akin to, like, there are certain slurs for, like, even the Jewish community which are directly aligned to the Holocaust, aligned to some of the atrocities that they've been through. And that's one thing that kind of comes to mind in terms of similarity in terms of words.

So the basic rule is, if you're not black, you literally cannot say it. Like, I could not say it right now. If I said it right now in this interview, would you be offended?

Offended if you were not black? I'd never want to hear it out of a non black person's mouth. Right? Like. Like in any. In any context whatsoever. I mean, it's. For me, it's. But it's not just. In my personal opinion, it's not just the N word that I feel that way about. Like, there's slurs that people who are in the LGBTQ + community use as, like, terms of endearment for each other. I'm not a part of that community. I don't even have an opinion on it because I'm not a part of the community. So I'm just. That's not for me. If you want to call each other whatever you want to call each other, that's on you. But to reduce, especially because, like, to be really frank, to use that word. And it's not like we're like 50,000 years post Jim Crow or post certain things. This is literally yesterday. Right? It's not like, oh, my God, I didn't even know that thing exists. This is. This is still harmful to this day.

Okay, I kind of know the answer to this question, but I'm just curious. So could Eminem rap using the N word?

No. And you know what? I think Eminem's a really good example because he never does. Eminem has never once used the N word in any of his songs. And I think that, like, the laziness sometimes of non black people, like, oh, like how am I supposed to rap without the N word? I'm like, eminem's one of the greatest rappers of all time, has never once said it in a song. So either become a better rapper or stop rapping. And it kind of like boils down to that. There's plenty of people. I'm going to be honest with you guys. For a long time, I kind of just thought that. How can I put this in terms of white people? A lot of white people around me growing up were like, oh, my God, why can't I use it this? And third? And like, I just thought that every white person wanted to use it. And then I met white people as I got older and more recent in the last few years who were just like, I've never wanted to use that word. I'm like, oh, so the people who are just dying to use it, they're the ones. There's something wrong with them. So I don't know why people are so prone to wanting that. That word in their vocabulary.

So you talk about braided hair, and I just. Just. I gotta ask you this question because I've done it a few times. So I've seen black women with just beautiful braided hair, and I've said to them, I just love your hair. And is that not acceptable? Is that.

No, I. No, no. I personally, I don't. I try not to. To speak for black women, but I'll give my. My opinion from the outside looking in. I think that compliments. There's nothing wrong with a compliment. Right? Like, right now I'm in the process of growing my hair, and some people, like, when I. When my hair is, like, combed out and said, oh, my God, you have such, like. Like, rich hair. And it's that third. And like, oh, thanks, whatever. And I think that that's fine. I think it's when people start, like, ogling and treating you like you're in the. Something in like, a museum or something like that. Like, oh, my God, can I touch you? I'm not a sideshow, right? I'm just black. Okay?

I must admit, I never gone to a bald white guy and said, I love the.

Can I. Can I just rub your baldness? Yeah, yeah, here's.

Yeah. Okay, so I want to know how you interpret the convictions of the murderers of Ahmad Arbery and George Floyd. Is that reason for hope or tokenism or. Thank God there were cameras.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think for me, it's a little bit of everything. You said one. I think working backwards, if there weren't cameras, I do think that they would have went free. How many times have we heard about black and brown people being murdered and there's no cameras and ultimately nothing happens. We forget history so quickly. My grandmother came up in the time where people would lynch people and literally take pictures and turn them into postcards, but it's lost to the confines. Yeah, that's a. Yeah, you gotta Google that. That's a absolute, real thing. Yeah. So again, to this point, like, things get lost to the confines of history so often. And I'm afraid that if there weren't body cameras in these different cases, or people rather recording with their cameras, rather, that we wouldn't have the convictions that we do have now. I do think there's a sign of hope because more people are interested now than ever in the racial dynamics of this in other countries. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if there wasn't an interest in unpacking things like white supremacy and patriarchy and capitalism, so on and so forth. So that's. That gives me hope. But ultimately, I do think we just. We have a long way to go, guy. We have a really, really long way to go. But I say all the time, and I told my little cousin this yesterday because he was talking about whether we can ever be liberated as people of color and black people specifically. We have to. Imagination. If we can't, if we can't imagine it, nobody's gonna do it for us. So that. That's where my hope lies. I. I imagine a world, and long after I'm gone, where these things won't be happening.

It's kind of a multiple questions here, but just to get you on the right on the central topic. So do you think it's getting darker before the dawn or this is as dark as it's going to get and it's the last gasp of white nationalism as the demographic ties prevails. Or do you think this is just gonna go get worse and worse and worse?

That is a really good question. I think it depends on the day that you ask me today. But today what I feel like is. Can be a last gasp if people keep their foot on the pedal. I think that if we keep on doing the things that are necessary, the reason why we are in this moment is because I think white nationalism feels its back against the wall and it's clawing and punching to get off of the ropes. And when you have somebody on the ropes, you can win the fight or they can make a comeback. Right. So. So that's what I think that we're at right now. When, when Biden was elected, I think a lot of people saw that as, oh my God, we don't need to care about these things anymore. Like, thanks, the world is better. And then all of a sudden now you have this like, like renaissance of white nationalism in like Florida and Texas, Idaho, and you know, not just white nationalism, but like anti anti homophobic or anti homosexual and anti trans legislation and things of that nature. So it's up to us right now to do the things that are necessary to actually knock it out. Like truly. And that, that's going to be, that's going to take generations. It's going to take this conversation we're having here. It's going to take conversations with younger people than you and I and they're going to have to have conversations with younger people than they are.

Are $64 million question is, well, so I'm a non black person listening to this. What should I do? How should I start? Put, how do I get on this path of being part of the solution, not the problem? Really practical, tactical stuff.

Yeah, you know, I, it's a, it's a really good question because I, I think that the, the advice I would give is the advice I give to myself for whatever communities I don't belong to. Right. Is choose to do something every day. I think a lot of people think that change is some type of sprint. Oh my God. You know, I'm just like 2020 happened in the protests and I'm just super excited. I'm, I'm out here. I, but I don't know how to sustain that because like that's, that's not sustainable. It's, you're not going to go out every single day and protest. It's not going to happen. I'm not doing it. No one's doing that. So it's about finding things that lend themselves to being in a marathon. One of the things I'm doing right now for certain trans organizations is making monthly donations for people who do this work every day. I have a monthly donation to various organizations or for example, things that are for me, low hanging fruit. I have a platform. I see something wrong, sometimes I'll just raise money for it. Where I'm like, oh, they just passed a bill in Florida where you can no longer talk about sexual orientation and gender identity in school. Great. So what am I going to do? I'm going to make a GoFundMe. And we've already raised $25,000 to help out organizations supporting LGBTQ + youth. So it's just about finding based on your resources what you can do. If you don't have the finances, if you don't have a platform, that's fine. So what can you do is like, hey, read an article. Send that article out to people in your family. You read my book, Guy, and you're like, oh, I learned a lot about black culture reading your book. Okay. Then it's up to Guy to say, who else do I think should read this book? Should I give this book to my friends? Should I do this? Should I do that? And it doesn't have to always be monetary in the way ways that we support people. You have to find out what your resources are and just do something on a regular basis.

Let's say my son and his buddies are now wearing durags. Should I pull them aside and say, hey, take them off. This is not your culture. You're appropriating it. You're looking like a dumb. Take them off.

Or one of the beautiful things about this era that we live in, there's literally an article or an opinion about everything out there, right?

Yeah.

So you as another person who comes from. From your. The same as your son. I don't know if your son is mixed or not, whatever, but from the same community. And it's not a black community. I don't. Maybe your son is half black for all I know. But. But I would go find an article that someone has written about the history of do rags, right, and present that to your son and say like, hey, do you know this? Because this is why people wear do rags. This is why people do certain things. Why are you. A lot of things that I like to do as a person who's an author, educator, so on and so forth, instead of wagging my finger at people, I like to turn it around on them and ask them questions, why are you doing certain things? What was the point in it? And do you know the history? And then people typically will in real time unravel and like, oh, I guess I don't and maybe I shouldn't be.

But can you just give me the answer to short.

Yeah, So I. So, so from. So for me, I personally, as Frederick Joseph, don't have an issue with non black people wearing durags. Because I do think that like, durags also offer hair protection and things of that nature. I think that if you're wearing a durag, along with a whole bunch of other things that are supposed to almost be a caricature of a black person, that's Where I have an issue. If you're in, if you're in an L.L. bean jacket and you have on a durag, I'm like, whatever, you know, but if you're doing like an entire wearing.

Birkenstock, you're driving a Prius.

Right, exactly. I'm sure. Whatever, whatever. But oh yeah, I'm trying to protect my hair, you know, Great, whatever. Good for you. But if you're, oh yeah, I'm wearing this stereotypical black outfit, whatever that is this like rap ensemble, then I'm like, yeah, that's, we, we have an issue now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Listening to Nelly.

Right, right, right, right.

Okay. Now really, I, I, I've, I've got everything I need. I got more than I need. But you know, I had one thought for you that I don't know. Well, just, I'll insert foot in mouth. So, you know, you talk about allies versus accomplices and I think. Well, I won't tell you what I think, but maybe I will say what I think. I think that using the word accomplice is really tricky because aren't you then sort of playing into the stereotype of black people wearing hoodies are criminals and because criminals have accomplices. Right. Authors don't have accomplices and CMOs don't have accomplices and whatever. Accomplice, anything has negative connotations. So I just offer you that as, you know, 67 year old Japanese guy.

Telling you, you know. Yeah, no, it's, you know, it's interesting because I think that one of the things I've seen with the book, book that has been super interesting is everybody is all over the place in terms of what they think. I come, I've, I, I get brought into schools a lot. I, I talk to maybe like 10 schools a week probably and different teachers and administrators and they're like allies versus accomplices.

We love that.

And, and just then other places like I'll go into like corporations and you're like, this feels a little bit much for us. So I think it really depends on the setting. In, in the future we'll have to do an AB test. Test. We'll have to like that's what we're gonna, that's what we're gonna have.

Analytics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I told you. NBA, NBA mind. So we'll have to ab test it. But I, but I hear you. I think that messaging, you know this better than just about anyone in this country. Messaging is everything. The art of getting a story into people's hearts is at the core of how you make change, how you get people to buy a product, so on and so forth. So I do think that even in the subtitle on being a better white person person, for some people, they're just like, oh, I'm not picking this book up because it feels uninviting. And some people legitimately felt that way. Like people are just like a lot of white people. Like, oh, well, it feels like you're like wagging your finger. I mean, you hate white people based on your subtitle. But then other white people, I wanted to be better and I saw that book and I was just like, yeah, well he's being very direct. I can be better by reading.

I'm in that group.

Okay. So, you know, and so I think it all depends on everything. That's what you and I have to work on next. That's, that's what you and I are going to do. We're going to start a B testing book books. We're going to create it or, you know, I don't know if you remember this type of book where you would be able to choose the direction that you go. So what we'll do is we'll have the same chapter, but if you like turn to one page, the title will be Accomplices. And if you turn to another page, it won't be Accomplices. You can decide which way you want to go.

To argue against myself, I would say that by self selection anyone who buys your book and then further self selection anyone who reads that false far probably is okay to use the word accomplice.

You know, it's, yeah, I think so. But again, I'm trying to, this is dual fold. I want the message to reach as many people as possible. So I am always interested in tapping into those who are unlikely. The people who are like, hey, I was never going to finish this because I do think when you open the book up, unlike many books about race and really difficult topics, it's actually a fun book. It's actually, it's, it's a fun, you know, conversational book. And again, I, I do think that that book versus, let's say Patriarchy Blues, very different books. I think one of them is you're having a beer with me and the other one is, I would call it much more high brow. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's different.

Harry Gross versus I'm telling.

Oh boy. Oh man.

I, I, I gotta say, I, one of my theories Is that one of the. The best tells of intelligence is your sense of humor and black friend? Oh, my God.

I was.

I don't know. It's politically inappropriate to say that a book about racism made me laugh.

It really did. That was. That was legitimately the intent. And, you know, so we. You have to make me a deal because you were able to ask me whatever you wanted under the sun. You have to make me a deal because I love this conversation. So you're. We're gonna have to send you the third book, which is similar to the first book, and then we're gonna have to have another conversation in the fall. That. We're gonna have to do that because that book has in it, I think, a bunch of, like. I think another thing that's a special sauce of the black friend has a bunch of, like, luminaries in it. Right. You have these brilliant people.

People.

So for the next book, not patriotism, after that, I went out and got more brilliant people. Elizabeth Warren, Julian Castro, Chelsea Clinton, to talk about things that are across the board. And it's. It's funny. It's. It's funny. It's. It's. It's. It's direct. It's real. So we'll see. We'll see what you think of that one.

Ah, I guarantee you I like that. Okay, my absolute last question is, do you think that maybe the single simplest and easiest litmus test for where you are on race is what you thought of the super bowl halftime show?

Oh, I'm going to throw you a curveball, I think.

Oh, okay.

Here's the curveball. I think where you are on race. Race. Really? Sorry, my puppy's back there crying. So I think where you are on race is in part dependent upon. Did you assess what white people thought of the super bowl halftime show? Right. Like, if you actually went on Twitter and saw, like, how the most overt right wingers were talking about it, and you could. And you could see, oh, this person's racist. That person's racist. Is that third. Yeah, that's how I would take where you are in race. Like, oh, look at them. There was, you know, nothing wrong with this show. How dare you. Then that's how I would.

Okay. Because my interpretation was, if you hated that halftime show, you're a racist. Well, that's my point.

Yeah, exactly. So. Exactly. So if you were the type of person who could see that anyone who had an issue with it is a racist, then you're probably doing pretty well.

Oh, okay. I passed the test.

Yeah.

But okay, There's a concept, Frederick, of never selling past the close. So I could just shut up right now, but no, I'm not. Well, I can edit this out, so. But I tell you something. You. You know what have been just icing on top of the icing. On top of the icing of the halftime show is if at the very end Martha Stewart had walked out, that would have been fantastic.

You know what? No, no, no, no, no. Because I will. I will put the icing on top of the icing and icing and whatnot. On what you're saying if she would have came out but taken a knee and, like, said nothing, I was just like. That would have been the end of it. Like, literally the entire country would have sank into the ocean immediately.

There would be pieces of Rubio's and Cruz's brains scraped off the ceiling. Yeah. Desantis would be. He'd be in Cuba.

Exactly. The most un American thing to ever happen in this country.

NFL should call us next year to advise them on their halftime show.

We would just put it out there. Put it, put it out there. Put it out there. I'm saying.

If you talk to Snoop Dogg, tell him I'd be happy to give him my two cents.

I got you. I got you.

You know something? If I was truly on top of my game when I was doing this interview, I would have said, if you talk to Snoop Dogg, tell him I'd be happy to give him 50 cents. But I blew it. I lost that moment. Oh, if only Martha Stewart had been in the super bowl halftime show then. Oh, if she'd only come out and taken a knee, that would have been epic. Heads would have exploded. Nonetheless. Frederick Joseph, what a great interview. I had a fantastic time and I learned so much. Much. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable, people. Frederick Joseph and I are on a mission to make you remarkable. My thanks to Peg Fitzpatrick, Shannon Hernandez, Jeff C. Luis Magana, Alexis Nishimura, and the drop in Queen, Madison Nismer. We are all on a mission to make you remarkable. Until next time. Mahalo and. And aloha. This is remarkable, people.