Gary Vaynerchuk: NYT Best-Selling Author, Entrepreneur, and CEO of Vayner Media

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And I just want to tell you that I've been on Guy's podcast twice now and had a great time and I really hope that you'll listen to it.

Of course, especially the one when I'm.

On, but the other two.

I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is the Remarkable People podcast. I'm on a mission to make you remarkable. Helping me today is Gary Vaynerchuk, AKA Gary V. He is back for another remarkable episode to share all the golden nuggets from his book 12 and a half Leveraging the emotional ingredients necessary for business success. Gary is an entrepreneur, social media influencer, speaker and author. He's also an early investor in companies such as Canva, Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Venmo, Snapchat, Coinbase and Uber. Gary is a five time New York Times best selling author and a highly sought after public speaker. His other books include Crush It, Jab Jab Jab, Right Hook and the thank you Economy. In this episode he discusses kind candor, empathy, what you should look for in your first job, whether you should weaken weaknesses or strengthen strengths. That's a tongue twister. And why NFTs are the next big thing. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. And now here's the one and only truly unique Gary V. If I polled your fans about what you would do to someone who embezzled a quarter million bucks, let's just say that empathy would be way down the list. So why empathy?

That's a really fun way to start. First of all, Guy, it's really good to see you. Really genuinely. It's really nice to see you. I hope you're well.

Thank you.

What's funny? Something happened yesterday where the person was just an inner circle person. Somebody's been with me for a while and they were just like, I can't believe that's where you went first. I default into thinking, what's going on with the other person? I'll give you a Better one. When we were a very small wine business, my dad's business, we had an employee figure out a hack in our shipping system and steal more than that amount of money when we surely couldn't afford it. We figured out it's that moment. The investigation was going on for a little bit. We get to the aha moment. My father, who, you know, grew up in Soviet Russia and came here with nothing, and so I'm very empathetic to his reaction is jail for life. I, because the employee was with us for five years, immediately, and this is my late 20s, go into Something's wrong with him. Something's wrong. We have to help him. And that was like the crescendo moment for me in my career. When I look back, that clearly indicates that I believe in compassion and empathy because I think it's important. Of course, nobody wants money stolen from them, but I do think the soft skills really do matter. And I do think wondering what's wrong with the person on the other side that would get to a place where they would do those things is a strength, not a weakness. And I think most people have it misunderstood.

Is this Gary Vee 2.0 or is this just 1.0 unmasked?

Yeah, this is Gary Vaynerchuk much more unmasked because he didn't realize it wasn't conscious. All the hyper Gary Vee of 2009. 6, 8, 10, 11. If one looked behind the wine videos or the cursing on stage or the guy that you met early on, that style was what would happen to me when I had the lights on. No different than an athlete. It is potentially a slightly different version of themselves on the field than what they were at home. If you had talked to all my employees that were with me, they would laugh because they're like, man, one on one. It's such a different demeanor. As an operator, it's such a different demeanor. I'm still high energy and all that stuff, but I think it's Gary Vaynerchuk being more unmasked as I've started to tap into, how did I get here? Why is this working? What's different about me than a lot of the people I've come across? Is there anything that I can communicate that brings value? Maybe there's a lot more people like me out there that don't have somebody to point to. So I would say this was always who I was. In fact, the most ironic part of that question or that statement, the book's called twelve and a Half the half, which I refer to As a shortcoming of mine is candor, which completely was an off speed pitch for so much of my fan base, the people in my community, the people that follow me. Because Gary V's greatest strength is candor, because I'm talking on stage to nobody. You and I are talking right now to the ether. But when it came to one on one, I really struggled with conflict and negative feedback. I thought it would lead to fear. I believe a leader's biggest job is to eliminate fear. I matured over 20 years and realized my lack of candor was actually leading to fear because people didn't know where they stood. And that was a humbling moment in my late 30s, early 40s where I'm like, wow, this is a real flaw in my management style. I need to get better at this to finish this off. It's just the unveiling of who I've always been.

I have two if scenarios because I know you like scenarios because they're the, you know, one third of your book. So if Joe Biden calls you and appoints you Secretary of Kindness, first, would you take the job? And second, what would you do?

I would probably take the job, yes. Even though, God, I'm really in the prime of my career and I got a lot going on, I would take the job. What I probably do is use all my charisma, charm and incentives to get the 50 most public voices on the red and blue side to agree to go to Camp David with me. If non presidents are allowed to go to Camp David, I don't know the rules on that, but if not, I would, you know, take them to, who knows, Turks and Caicos, I don't know. And I would ask for me to be able to facilitate a 10 day immersion of conversation. That is what I would do. And I would try to really get a read of the human beings, the tastemakers, and see if I could find common ground. I've become very passionate guy around purple. I've been using the Purple Heart in almost all my content for about four months now because I do believe everybody actually is a level of purple. But we've tribalized politics to the point where people are changing their opinions on policies just to fit completely red or completely blue. And it's unfortunate. It's the biggest way to have friction. I knew kindness in a kind of 360 way. This is not about, like, be nice. This is about civility and courtesy, compassion. I think a lot about Bob Dole and Ted Kennedy. Very different points of view on where the world should be. But Spent multiple decades having civility and finding compromise. And we're a long ways from that. In your scenario, and I believe the 50 tastemakers on both sides, they could be politicians themselves, they definitely are pundits in media, they're definitely social media, they're podcasters, they're comedians, they're all sorts of people. I really think I'd be very effective in creating a different dialogue amongst each other over a 10 day period, which I hope would then create foundation to build on top of over the tenure of my public service. I really do think that's what's needed because we're so dug in, we're treating it like high school and junior high right now. And that's unfortunate.

Second scenario, what if Joe Rogan calls you up and says, Gary, I need some advice, the wheels are coming off the bus from here. What would you do? What do you tell Joe Rogan?

You know, I've thought a lot more about your first scenario than I have this one. I think for Joe, we're in this place right now where people are really struggling to understand nuances. I think that people are so headline reading. I think for Joe, a, I don't think that would be the conversation. I really don't. I don't believe that I could be wrong. I don't believe Joe feels the wheels are coming off. I think a lot of people are incredibly miss seeing what's happening in our society when there's controversies canceling whatever you may deem it. People are so dug in that it's almost like we're not even really having a dialogue. Ten years ago when there was a controversy, Gary Hart, right, the politician, you really were in trouble like your career was in trouble. Today people's careers are in less trouble because people are canceling everybody every day. There's so much going on with contention that both sides are digging in and then you're getting fired if you're just on the wrong side of the company. But you see what's going on. People are offering to subsidize the financial means. And then you have to understand there's really only two things that a lot of humans are thinking about. Their values and their financial stability. And both matter to varying degrees on different people. I think a, I think the first scenario is, believe it or not, more realistic than the second scenario. Not because I think Joe is too proud or things of that nature. But I don't know when you're going to distribute this. It's February 22nd. Everybody can Google right now. When the heat of the moment was. I feel like it was 10 days ago. It is genuinely past Guy. That's the kind of problem with the way that we're treating things with venom towards each other, like it's past Guy, which is very unfortunate because we move on to the next thing. We move on to the next thing. Instead of having sustained dialogue, we have these dog fights for 48 hours or a week, and then everybody collectively moves on. And that's why I think we have a lot of vulnerabilities.

You could certainly make that case about pulling out of Afghanistan. For a while, you thought that was the only issue facing the world. And here we are a few months later and nobody's bringing it up anymore.

Right? Yeah. I think our appetite, this is why shame and name calling and lack of civility are so ineffective. Both sides, obviously, we're getting into a lot of politics. We're here. Both sides are so dug in, there is no levels of compromise. And we're going to need leaders to pop up on both sides that really, really play in the middle for us to get back there. The political system is really built for that to be a struggle because everybody who has any ambition that means to win a primary or when their constituents need to go so far to left or right. We're a really challenging time right now in American history. We've been here before multiple times to remind everybody of a history lesson. And unfortunately, historically, it's been wars or other tragedies that have brought us together. I don't think anybody's interested in that here. But we're going to need some really strong leadership on both sides for people that carry the flag of purple, because to your point, Afghanistan, Ukraine, I mean, I was reading some of the feedback of people that are not on Biden's side of, like, weak on Russia, and I was laughing. I was like, what about four, you know, four years ago, it's weak on Russia on the other side because of the way Helsinki went down. And so we're just not having thoughtful dialogue. We're really not, and it's really unfortunate.

In this most recent book, you clearly communicate that business is not a zero sum game, that the rising tide floats all boats. I'm going to use every metaphor I can, that you focus on the customer, not the competition, and nice guys finish first. All that good stuff, right?

Yes.

So what does buying the jets or the desire to buy the jets mean to you now?

For over a decade, I've been saying that I sleep seven or eight hours. People every day say that I don't sleep for seven years consistently. Not that I expect anybody to listen to my content consistently, which is why I'm empathetic to why this happens. For more than seven or eight years now, I have been incredibly clear that the thrill of the hunt, no different than going garage sailing or being a fan of a sports team to win a championship, is a great driver of mine. The buying of the New York jets has always been the same. In fifth grade, I realized, Guy, that I was not going to be a Jets player. In first and second grade, I became what I would call Americanized. Early in my childhood, I was picked on because I didn't speak the language. I moved to Edison, New Jersey when I was seven. Several boys were playing outside with a Nerf football. They took me in, they made me a Jets fan. And I've fallen in love with that sport and basically learned Americana, learned English itself watching the jets as a child and it became a real symbol for me. And in fifth grade I decided I wanted to buy the jets, not play for them. And I've helped. Steadfast. 8th grade, 10th grade, senior year. All these moments where people would ask questions about what you're going to do. But it's always been about the process of trying to buy the Jets. That's the fun. As a matter of fact, I made a video about 10 years ago holding up a newspaper like I was a hostage just to prove when it was from not thinking it was going to take me 30, 40 more years and it would be clear that I didn't make it yesterday. Where I go into detail about why today, which is the day I bought the jets, is actually not as amazing as many may think that for know when the Rangers won the cup, ironically, literally, I was just on with Mark Messier on some business stuff right before this. That night I was in the building. The Rangers won the Stanley Cup. It was my first sports championship. I cried. It was the greatest. And I never followed the Rangers ever since then. It was all about the climb. And so to your point, look, somebody else is going to try to buy the jets instead of me. I'm not delusional to what competition looks like. I love competition. As a matter of fact, I took competitiveness off this book. It was one of the traits Guy and I as I was doing it because Covid allowed me to really get into my feelings and I was building out this book, I actually pulled competitiveness because I actually want to write an entire book just on the values of being competitive. So the things I'm talking about Is of course Yahoo vs Google vs Bing was like the search engine battle. But I don't think it was Google being tough or hard on Yahoo or Microsoft that made them win. I think it was that they were consumer centric. Like there's Coca Cola and Pepsi exist with many other beverages existing. I think there's just a lot more abundance in the business world than people realize.

Wait, can I back up for about 30 seconds or so? You said you took competitiveness out of this book so you could dedicate an entire book to it. Not because competitiveness doesn't belong in this list of gratitude, self awareness, accountability, optimism, empathy, kindness.

Correct. Because you also kept out tenacity and ambition. Right? Tenacity and ambition are in that book. I don't think of those as like foofy, foofy words. Right. So I believe in purple. I believe in blending. When I was going through it, the reason the book subtitle was ingredients was so I have this thought of like, hey, I need to show people how I'm going to build my empire. Another non soft word, you know, Vayner X now Guy, my marketing holding company has almost 1800 employees. We're a very large company at this point now for starting at zero 13 years ago. We call it the honey empire. Honey over vinegar. But we're trying to build an empire. And I think the part that is a struggle for people is balance. It's this or that. I think tenacity is imperative for success. I really do. I know the word hustle has become a detrimental word so I've taken out of my vocab. But I use the word work ethic all the time. I don't want anybody to burn out. I don't think you should chase the dollar in your health expense or your mental health. That's insanity. But I also think it's insane to think that work ethic is not part of the equation. You can't be a good parent unless you put the work into it. You can't be a good teacher, can't be a good entrepreneur executive. It's crazy. You're not going to dream it into existence. And so yeah, I took competitiveness out because I started to realize, oh, I want to go into this in a different way. Let me just put on the shelf here. But tenacity and ambition throughout the book was able to deliver on aspects that I thought were important in scenarios or making a case to why these emotions matter. If you want to build something significant.

Let'S do a semi deep dive into the concept of kind. Candor because those two words are not usually. I won't say they're oxymoronic, but they're not usually next to each other. So what do you mean by kind candor?

You just made my day. Let me tell you why. No, I mean this. I'll tell you why. Must be a boring day. Oh, no, sir. You did something very nice there that I'm. I'm really excited about this. I can without a shadow of doubt, tell everybody publicly now, it's not fun. But that by far the biggest weakness of my professional career was candor. I demonized it. My father was very good at it, but he delivered it with such poison that I watched all the detrimental effects of candor. He said, I'm shooting it straight. The problem was it was shot out of a gun of, you know, making people upset. And a lot of people miss the point of candor. The fact that you just said oxymoron not together, and I really respect and value your opinion lands with me. And here's why. I don't think people realize how candor was delivered over the last 50 years in business. I believe so many people use the excuse of candor to not be kind. I really believe that. I feel like a lot of managers used it to suppress people, maybe even get people to quit that they were threatened by that. The entire ecosystem of candor was not good. It wasn't working, and it made for bad work environments. Employees always talked about wanting more candor, but it was that you can't handle the truth kind of line from the movie. Right. It just didn't work. And I especially sure didn't, like, see it working. And even the great employees that I had come through my doors through the years that are like, hey, Gary, I want to be a manager. That's more canderous. I would say, knock yourself out. And I would watch them from afar, and it just wasn't working. People would quit on them. It would kick in fear. When you give candid feedback. I have an observation that it's a flaw of mine. And I start really working, worksmithing it, wordsmithing it, thinking, doing what I do, thinking. And I just stumbled on the concept of calling it kind Candor. And from that day forward, it elevated me. It immediately elevated the C suite. We stood it up at Vayner aggressively as a North Star, and it has been a profound impact on our organization, which is why I was excited to put it into this book. And the definition of kind candor for me is you're about to deliver news that is feedback often critical. You should deploy enormous levels of compassion and empathy that we live in society where when you do that, many will panic with it. I believe that if you come into the meeting with a framework of kind candor, that your word choices, your energy, the energy of the room, your ethos, the chemical transfer of communication, all of it, demeanor, tone of voice, will completely change. And I've seen it in practice, and I'm really proud of it. And I hope it helps some people.

I work for Steve Jobs, and I would not see that he had the kind part of candor. Let's. Let's just say so. I hear you. I hear what you're saying. Although I will tell you, the unkind candor of Steve Jobs definitely worked on me.

Yeah. And I respect that debate on that. And I've had this conversation with a lot of leaders, especially in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s, that enjoy this subject matter. I'm genuinely curious. There was emotional makeup that you had, guy, that allowed that to work on you. My intuition is that if he delivered kind candor instead of whatever version of candor he had, that it also would have worked on you. I really believe that. And so my point is, Steve could have may rest in peace, might have had more executives hang with him longer, because I'm sure you saw some people that were incredibly talented, but they didn't have the emotional strength you had for whatever parenting circumstances, who knows? And it wasn't something that they could deal with. And then they ended up not being there. And my intuition is some of those people would have been great value adds to the three companies, three chapters of his career. And so for me, that's just a net gate. That's all true.

True. And you only hear about Elon and Steve. You don't hear about the people who have kindness and candor.

I think that's right. Yeah. That was the point of the book. I'm aware that this point in my career, especially because my popularity on TikTok and other platforms, I have a lot of young characters watching me. And I really am excited about putting this conversation to the ethos because to your point, Devil Wears Prada, Steve, other, like, we've glamorized the hard ass boss and we always, and we always do a great job in popular culture of showing that they have a soul. And then you're like, okay, guy, I really struggle with the concept of why somebody should verbally undress an employee in a conference room with other employees. I don't, I don't see the the, the value in that. I don't think it's motivating them the way that people would like to think in the old school ways that it was. I get frustrated plenty. There are executives that disappoint me greatly. But having the emotional strength to be able to have a meaningful conversation with them in a closed door, it's just always going to be a bigger and better impact on the organization. I believe that firmly.

Let's move into more granular, like personal advice because I'm sure some people would love to hear this. So Gary V's advice on what to look for in the first real job.

So I have a really different take on this. I think everyone's first jobs that they should be high risk because they're so young and it bodes well for high risk behavior. I'm a big fan of who's your hero in the industries that you want to be in. Make a list of her or him, how many are there? And at all costs, if you're capable to be their admin, do it or the intern for their chief of staff. Like, whatever gets you closer. I call it get close to the sun. I want to be like Guy one day. Literally send an email. Everybody that's listening to this ran to Guy and say, I want to. You know, I didn't. I want to be careful with saying I'll work for free because people get very emotional about that and I'm very empathetic to why, but I'd be lying if I didn't say at all costs. I, you know, I think people will have much more successful, happy lives professionally if they can figure out how to get close to the people they want to be like. Because the learnings and you know, this guy, I mean, you've been very public about your career paths and who you rub elbows with. And we've talked about it. The closer you get to the source, the more you learn through osmosis. In an incredible way. Hannah park works for me. She's amazing. She just joined as my second chief of staff with Marcus Grzestic, who's been with me from day one. She's been with us for eight years. Senior exec. She's a beast. Five weeks in, really driving, having a combo like, how's it going? She goes, I've learned more in five weeks than I've learned in eight years. And I actually believe it. I know where she was going. Obviously to some level that's probably not true. You forget what you learned. But my number one piece of advice for a first job is get as close to the person you want to end up being. Like, you want to be a fashion designer, get coffee, be in the room, take notes. Like the osmosis of being close to the person is profound.

Second question. How do you know when it's time to look for greener pastures versus fertilize the pasture you're in?

That's such a goddamn great question. It's impossible to generalize when to leave a job and go to another one. It's really hard. Here's what I would say. If you have sustained for an entire year constant thoughts of leaving your job, really genuinely living for Friday and being upset about Monday, you owe it to yourself to really, really, really try to find a new situation, even if you have to take a financial step backwards. There's so much subconscious unhappiness when you're not fulfilled at work. So maybe this year you can't take a nice vacation in December because you need to take a real pay cut to pay your bills. But I'm telling you, it's going to work out for you. If you're really, really unhappy, it never ever works. So I would say sustained, constant, daily 365 days. This sucks. Deserves a real action.

If you were to allocate one's effort between fixing weaknesses versus enhancing strengths, what would the mix be?

80, 20 enhancing strengths. I think we spent way too much energy on things we're not great at and not refining things that we're naturally great. Now we're going general here. There are some flaws. If you were incapable of balancing a checkbook. Like you can put yourself out of business real fast, but unless it's a catastrophic flaw, if you're not organized, don't have an organized career. Have a creative career. Like I really think that people don't double down on their strengths enough. I really believe that.

Let's talk about NFTs for a second. So you're Mr. NFT. Why is an NFT valuable?

Because the blockchain is an extraordinary infrastructure of technology that allows us to do things that we haven't been able to do before, which is we have a public transparent ledger run on decentralized servers that allow us to create digital ownership. What that actually means is it's a better checks and balances system for the utility that our society runs on. Which is why ultimately NFTs will have a very similar 25 year window to the Internet. I don't have to tell you, you're the OG in this call. You know exactly how many people couldn't see how big the Internet was in 1993, 4, 5, 6, when at best popular culture and mainstream saw it as a wonderful tool for academia to look up things at their college campuses. And you really know, this is why. Fun talking to you about this. We just grossly, societally underestimated the impact of the Internet. At that point we put it into a pigeonhole. Right now the pigeonhole for blockchain, consumer blockchain is collectibles and art that is a subtle part of it. I believe in a decade every ticket to every event is an nft. I believe every receipt to a high end purchase is an nft. There are things that are going to be made up that we can't even begin to think about when we go to a utility first comma, NFT world. Right now we're in a NFT comma a little bit of utility world in Web three. And I think that's where people are grossly underestimating the reality of this. I'll give you another Revolution Comp Web 2, which as you know, we kind of met during that era. I think I was a Pied Piper for social media. And I think what people missed was people need to communicate. And I think NFTs will be a communication portal for human beings. Human beings communicate through the things they buy at a very high propensity. Fashion is built on it. I would say even automotive decisions are built on it. I think people buy homes and zip codes because of it. We communicate through the things we purchase. NFTs will tap into that human behavior as well.

At the current state where it's NFT with a little bit of utility. Do you shake your head when somebody pays a few million dollars for a screenshot of the first tweet or somebody's sketch of a monkey? Or is that, is that proof of insanity or proof of concept?

Well, I think it's proof of how much money the government has printed, to be honest with you, if you really like. We have a real inflation issue because governments print money in perpetuity. But I think the bigger point that you're making is there's a reason I put out content every day that says 98% of NFTs are going to zero. I was there in 1997 and 98 and 99 and I watched the valuation of Internet companies that literally had no business model reach billions of dollars. You were there very intimately. You recall this. All those stocks had their heyday and then they all had their D day, which was March and April of 2000. The problem was Amazon was sitting there for $6 a share right before all the splits. And I think that's what's going to happen here, Guy. 98% of these NFT projects are going to zero. I can tell you right now on the record, my Deep Friends project is not because I'm going to operate it. I know what to do. I know how to bring value to the people that actually own the token. And over next 30, 40 years, I'm going to try to build a Disney Pokemon like intellectual property. And I think I'm going to be successful. And I think there'll be 45 to 500 other people that are deep in it right now. That will be the bezos of this. We've long forgot about the executives of Pets.com and Dogpile Search engine. You remember this. It was a day of reckoning. We had multibillion dollar valuations on Internet companies that didn't sell $1,000 worth of stuff on the Internet. We had our day of reckoning. We will absolutely have our day of reckoning in NFT land where 80, 90% of the projects will lose enormous value. But the macro concept of the Internet was very right in 1999, and the macro concept of the consumer blockchain, aka NFTs, is beyond right.

Just for clarity, can we separate NFT from cyber currency? Are you as big a believer in cyber currency?

I'm not as much, no. I'm less excited about cryptocurrency because I think what NFTs do is they allow to tap into many more emotional triggers and utilities than cryptocurrencies that have to be accepted as a currency. I think that the NFT market has more flexibility of creativity and mass consumption because of Fortnite skins, because of 2k points, because of Farm Bill and Virtual Sheep, why people buy Nikes that are expensive or burka bags. There's a lot more human psychology going on with NFTs than there are with cryptocurrencies, even though I'm sure there'll be cryptocurrencies that are successful. I've also not spent anywhere close to as much time on cryptocurrencies as I have with NFTs because of that intuition and belief.

So my last question is, if I'm a young person listening to this podcast and I'm buying into your vision of soft skills and kind candor and all that good stuff, give me the Gary Vee career advice. You talked about the first job working for the person that just by osmosis you gain value. But in A more general sense. If someone young buys into this vision, what, what's their steps? How do they optimize going forward from now on.

Fighting for content and happiness at all costs and living within the financial means that creates. Guy, I believe in it so much, man, and I know that I have so many contradictory elements to me I'm very self aware but like man, I was really happy in my 20s making under 70,000 a year, like beyond happy. And I just think that I was proud that I was helping build a business for my parents and I knew I would leave in my 30s with nothing. And I was happy. I made those decisions. I was self aware. People need to fight for happiness, Guy. We are very fortunate. We run very, we have professionally run in very unique circles. Can you please, from your powerful voice tell these people how many people with high wealth that you know that are incredibly unhappy?

I would say it's very high correlation. The more you're worth, the more unhappy you are. You know, I mean obviously you're not worried about food and clothes.

That's right. But Diddy and Biggie had a more money, more problems. Like it's very real. There's an incredible false narrative that money buys happiness. It's just not true. And I do think that the more we actually have the real conversation about that, you may be perceived happy on social media, but it's not about that. And so, you know, I would say fight for happiness, fight for your creativity, especially in your 20s and early 30s, mid-30s, even to 40, I think more high risk, high reward behavior around what makes you happy. The long tail of opportunity is here now because of the Internet and even now because of the blockchain for creative people. I think you're going to regret it. If you want to spend more time with 80 year olds that are not your grandparents, go volunteer retirement home and speak to 90 year olds. See what they talk about. They'll give you the answers and their answer is they spend time on things they wish they didn't. Often professionally or in unhappy relationships with their family, whether spouse or a parent or a sibling. And so don't live with regret, but turn it into something practical. If you have to compromise financially, live within your means, but fight for happiness. I love you pal.

There you have it. Gary Vee being all tactical and practical as Gary Vee always is. I'm Guy Kawasaki again. I'm on a mission to make you remarkable. I hope this episode helped a bit. My thanks to Jeff C. And Peg Fitzpatrick. Shannon Hernandez, Madison the drop in Queen of Santa Cruz surfing. Luis Magana and Alexis Nishimura. Until next time. Mahalo. Aloha. And if I drop in on you in Santa Cruz, I apologize in advance. All the best. This is remarkable, people.