How to Lead People First in Uncertain Times with Dara Treseder

I think a people first leader is a leader who puts the needs of the people front and center when making decisions. So it's not to say you're not going to make hard decisions or difficult decisions, but you're going to make sure that you understand the people impact and that you plan for it.

Good morning. First of all, let me explain. I'm Guy Kawasaki. I'm not Robert Kiyosaki. I didn't write Rich Dad, Poor Dad. All right? And this is the Remarkable People podcast. And the whole point is to find remarkable people, to inspire and inform people. And so we're blessed to find people like you. So thank you very much for being on the show.

I am honored to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm a fan of your work.

You say that to everybody.

Oh, no, I really don't. You could ask my team. I really don't. I try to keep it true. I keep it authentic. 100.

So, Dara, first of all, for the longest time, I thought your name was Tressiter. I thought, oh, they named the Food hall in Stanford after her. I can understand why they would do that. But it's treed.

It's Tresidder. It's a different family. I know sometimes people get. They were like, oh, you're not. I'm like, no, we are a different Tresidder. Still a great one. But our names are not yet on buildings.

Yet.

Yeah. So just to explain that you're the Chief Marketing Officer of Autodesk, right?

Yes.

That is a very high position here in Silicon Valley and tech. And basically, I looked at. I said, well, she's young, she's female, she's black, and she's known for all these great things. And I really appreciate all the advance that you've done and all the work that's done, all your accomplishments. And when I die, I want to come back like somebody like you.

Oh, my gosh, Guy. Wow. It is really an honor, honestly, to be here having this conversation with you. Thank you so much for having me.

I got to tell you a funny story. So I know Lovey. You know Lovey?

Yes, I do know Lovey.

And I also know this doctor from Canada named Chica Stacy Oriua, and she's this really outstanding young doctor from Canada. And Mattel made a Barbie doll after her.

Wow.

I just want to tell you that I've had three Nigerian women on my podcast, and so in my mind, every Nigerian woman that I know is remarkable. Really?

That is very generous of you to say. And I'm glad to hear the tradition of awesome Nigerian women.

And then I'm not hitting on you. I found out that you're already married. And I'll tell you why I'm disappointed that you're already married. Because I, before I die, I want to go to a Nigerian wedding because Lovey told me what a Nigerian. It's like four days. Did you have one of those?

I did have one of those. Guys, while you are in good luck, because Nigerians, when you go to a Nigerian wedding, there will be people that have known the bride and the groom for 20 years and people that their parents met the week before at the market. So the chances of you getting invited to a Nigerian wedding are very high. Okay, now you know three of us. So if it's not love, it might be me. One of us might bring you with us to a Nigerian wedding of a friend or family member. So we're going to keep that conversation going.

Going to a Nigerian wedding is on my bucket list.

All right. We got to make it happen. So I got a lot of cousins who are going to get married at. So I'm gonna make sure you get on that invite list.

So me and Lovey will come.

Yes. Not quite Taylor Swift's wedding, but we can make that happen.

We're gonna come to Taylor Swift. So first of all, what companies are in your marketing hall of fame? Who do you look up to and say, wow, they really do it right.

Apple. I think Apple really do it right. First of all, they have the core brand attribute that Apple has, I think, doubled down on for the last two decades, and I think it's serving them well even today is privacy and trust. I think they're a really great brand. They're also great when it comes to design and user experience and that customer experience. And they really get the power of the ecosystem. Because at the end of the day, what is a brand? A brand is the sum of the promises you make and the experiences you deliver. Apple makes really great promises, and they deliver incredible experiences. And I think as a customer, as a consumer, it's a brand that we can trust.

So you just talked about Apple and privacy as a key selling feature. Right, I understand that, but what happens when you see Tim Cook at the inauguration, gives a million dollars, gives a glass and gold trophy? That's not exactly on brand. So as a marketing person, what do you do with that?

You know, we are in unprecedented times.

No shit.

We are in unprecedented times. I think the role that government is in business in how brands are expressing themselves. It's unprecedented. So I like to extend a little bit of grace to leaders. I like to extend a little bit of grace before I jump to judgment, because I think these are unprecedented times, and I think a lot of people are trying to figure out how to navigate these unchartered waters.

Okay, you're never gonna have an interview like this again.

I know. I'm excited. I'm like, I get to talk about all the things.

Okay, what exactly does a CMO do in 2024?

What CMO not do in 2025? I think that would really be the question. It was interesting. My daughter was talking to me. She was like, mommy, you care about everything from putting on these events to help explain the technology to making sure we're driving growth on the Autodesk store like you have. There's. There's a lot CMOs, at the end of the day, we are responsible for driving growth for the business. We are responsible for helping make sure our company can articulate what the future is going to be and how we're going to help our customers get there closer, faster. So we have a big remit and think it's an exciting time to be a CMO in 2025. It is also a challenging time to be a CMO in 2025 because I think the pace of change has never been faster than it is, and it's only going to continue to speed up. So it means we all have to buckle in and just keep on going.

And are you primarily a B2B company? So how has that changed?

We are primarily a B2B company. Our software is used by businesses and professionals to design and make anything right, Whether it is buildings we live and work in, products we use and love, or movies, games, and shows that entertain us. Autodesk is used to design and make anything. And as a B2B company, the game has changed. Because I think it's really important to help our customers navigate these unprecedented times and uncharted waters. We have to be the trusted partner for our customers. And showing up in a human way that our customers can connect to has never been more important.

And why, you know, you. You discussed that people use AutoCAD to build everything or anything, right? So why not go B2C? Why not democratize it? Why don't you do to, you know, this B2B orientation, like what Canva did to Photoshop. Why don't you do that to democratize so everybody can build everything?

We actually do so our customers. We have a lot of individuals who buy Autodesk softw They come to our Autodesk store, they buy our software. Whether it's AutoCAD or Revit or Maya or Civil3D, we have a lot of different products that individuals use. So our products are used by individuals. In fact, we actually make our software available for free to students and educators all around the world. We have over a hundred million students and educators in over 160,000 schools around the world using Autodesk software for free today. So we are certainly already walking the walk when it comes to democratizing and increasing access for our software.

So I would say you're more B2C than B2B.

We're a little bit of both. You know, we're a little bit of both. I think the bulk of our business and our revenue comes from our business customers. So that is why I would primarily describe US as a B2B company. But yes, absolutely. Individuals every day wake up and they use Autodesk software to design and make a better world for all of us.

You're a walking PR machine man.

You make a distinction between purpose.

So are you saying that Autodesk is a purpose driven company or a product driven company? At this point we're both.

Autodesk is both a product driven company and a purpose driven company or product driven company in the sense that we're a technology first business. So it's all about how can our technology help our customers and make our customers lives better. But when you talk to me or any Autodesker, what gets us up every day, why we show up is because we are proud to work for a company that is designing and making a better world for all. That is the why we exist.

And in your case, you came to a company that was already decades old. I mean, you know, autocad existed before you, right? And so when you come into this kind of situation, do you take this product and then you wrap it in a purpose? You find the purpose. I mean, if you were two gals in a garage, you could start off with the purpose and the product and design the product for the purpose. But in your case, the product was already there. So what's the problem? Process of putting purpose and product together.

So I was very fortunate because Autodesk already had incredible products and offerings and actually already had a phenomenal purpose. So my job was really to package it all together and elevate the storytelling, start to really communicate that on the biggest stages in the most exciting ways. So that was what the job to be done became is. How do we make sure that we get this message out there because. Because people knew us primarily as a design company. They knew us primarily for AutoCAD. We are so much more than that. We are a leading designer, make, platform, right? We have products that span everything from architecture to engineering, construction, product design, manufacturing, media, entertainment. And so my job was to make sure that if anybody, anywhere is trying to design or make anything, they're like, hey, what could Autodesk do for me? And make sure that we insert ourselves into that initial consideration set.

You know Dara, you need to learn how to come out of your shell and really become evangelistic.

I heard there's an evangelist who can teach me a little bit about that.

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First few years at Autodesk you had like promotions and advertising with Games of Thrones and the Oscars and then the reconstruction of Notre Dame, which that one I understood because that's a building, right? So how do you link Game of Thrones and the Oscars to a CAD program?

Our software is used to design and make anything. We talked about how it's used with buildings we live and work in, right? Notre Dame to products we use and love like our phones or our cars, but also movies and games that entertain us. Autodesk software is also used to bring those to life. And so what we've been focused on is telling those real customer stories in exciting ways. So our software has been used in bringing, whether it's Game of Thrones or Walking Dead or Severance the most. You know, the award winning show that's been collecting all the awards this season. Our software was used to design and make it. And so what we have focused on is telling and celebrating those stories so that we can connect the dots and help our customers Understand this convergence that's happening.

Wait, how does an Autodesk product help make a movie?

It's used with the visual effects. So all of the visual effects are done using Autodesk software. So whether it's Autodesk Maya, Autodesk Flow Studio, which is our visual effects AI offering that is being used to help with essentially bringing these stories to life in a very believable way on the.

Screen, clearly you have done it. But what have you learned about making something that used to be a tech product into something that people feel an emotional attachment to?

Honestly, it's been telling these real stories in big ways because the stories always existed. Let's just take media and entertainment, for example. Autodesk software. Software had been used in almost every winning, Oscar winning animation movie since 1997.

That's a big secret.

It was a secret. Nobody knew. We weren't talking about it. And it was like, hey, let's just not make that a secret anymore. Let's start to talk about it. Let us start to celebrate our phenomenal customers. And this is not about centering Autodesk. This is about centering our customers, showing the amazing work that they're doing, what they are, are making possible using our software. Of course, we are marketers. There's got to be roi. But the people that are the heroes here, it's not Autodesk. The heroes of our stories are always our customers.

So if the heroes of your stories are the people, clearly you have an orientation of being a people first leader, right?

I do.

First of all, please define what is a people first leader?

I think a people first leader is a leader who puts the needs of the people front and center when making decisions. So it's not to say you're not going to make hard decisions or difficult decisions, but you're going to make sure that you understand the people impact and that you plan for it.

And when you say people impact, you mean your employees or the customers?

It's employees, it's customers, it's stakeholders. You need to understand, when I make this change, how is this going to be experienced right, by the humans, the people that are going to be the humans, the businesses. What is the impact going to be on them? And how can I make sure that I plan and prepare for it? So we always try to be thoughtful and always make sure that we're putting our customers at the center of it.

And not that I truly believe this, but what if I call bullshit on you and I say, listen, I can name you some people who are not people first? Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Steve Ballmer. There are some of these people that I would not exactly call people first. And yet they're so success. So are they the four or five or ten people who are not people first who have excelled? The 490 of 500 Fortune 500 CEOs are people first. Are these the outliers? Because people look at these heroes and they say, I want to be like Elon. But that's hard to translate that into saying, I want to be people first like Elon.

You know what I think is I want to be the best version of me. I don't want to be like anybody else but me, but I want to make sure that I am being that best version of who I am in every context. And I think for me, that means thinking about the humans and the people. My first job was being a waitress in Nigeria. And I learned a lot about listening to customers. And whenever I put my customers first, it was a little waitress, a little canteen. But when I put my customers first, not only were they happy, but I got better tips. They became return customers. Right. The business I was working for, Right. Choice was more successful. So I learned a lot in that process, and that's something that I carry with me today. I think when you always do what's right for the people that are gonna be impacted, you always get the right results. That's been my experience. Now, not to say there are not other ways of doing things. Yes, there are other ways. And I can't speak for anyone or why anyone makes the decisions that they make. But I can tell you that when I make decisions, trying to make sure that I'm doing the right thing by the people around me. Now, I'm not saying I don't make hard decisions. I would be disingenuous to say that every leader has to make tough decisions. And I think you can make tough decisions in a way that centers on the people and does right by them.

I really want to come back as a Nigerian woman.

And then I can have my own wedding.

Exactly. And then you can invite me and everybody, including. Including the person you just met yesterday.

All right. On another parameter, let's talk about if it's a dichotomy. Data driven versus insight driven. Are you either one or are you both?

I'm both. And the way I actually think about it is I think about it as data informed and insight informed. Because at the end of the day, the data isn't actually driving, it's informing. It's an Input, but there are also other types of input. And I think I bring all of these things together and I try to make the best decision that I can. And not only am I bringing in the data and the insights, but I'm also bringing in the perspectives because I think often when we're making decisions, there's the perspective of the person who's impacted most. And usually that person is not in the room. And so I often like to think about who is being impacted most by this decision. If they're not in the room, how can I make sure I have the perspective or their perspective brought to the table so that we can make the best decisions? And we always make the best decisions. When we bring data, we bring insights and we bring perspectives together.

Okay, so it's 2025. How do you.

That's what they tell me. They tell me it's 2025.

Yeah. How do you do test marketing and data research today?

So we do a couple of things. First of all, we obviously do a lot of quantitative research and testing. We do qualitative, so focus groups. Those are still very, very important. And then on top of that, we do pilots. Because I don't care how many quantitative tests you run and qualitative tests you run, when you release it into the wild, that's when you're actually going to get the real results. So I often tell my team, no matter what it is, hey, we're going to pilot it and then we're going to actually put it out in the real world and we're going to see the response we get from the real world. And we are going to have scenarios. There is going to be scenario A, B, C or D based on what happens in the real world. We'll be able to pivot and adjust accordingly. And honestly, because of the, the unprecedented times we're living in and just the division and the polarization in the world today, someone could just say can and all of a sudden, wow, can was so divisive. I just said the word can. I meant a can on a shelf. And so, you know, two different people can see that exact thing from two different perspectives. So I do think pilots and putting things out in the wild, that's a huge part of how we test today, too.

And for people who are not in marketing, can you just explain the nitty gritty and tactics of a pilot?

An autodesk? When we are trying to take the voice of the customer to the product teams, we actually have an expert elite community. So what are expert elites? They are power users of Autodesk software. And they're a broad group, so they cut across all our industries. They use almost all of our different products. They are located in almost every country that we're in. So it's a really great sample set of people who love and use Autodesk. And we work with them to make sure that we're able to take those data and insights and perspectives and actually go deeper with that group. And then our expert elites then engage with our product teams. And our product teams love to hear from our expert elites because these are the people that use the products a lot. What do you think makes a product person happier than someone who uses their and is a fan of their product? Nothing brings more joy to our product teams than connecting with our expert elites and getting some of those insights. So I think. I think part of what we do is not just take the data and the insights and the perspectives that we have our community and the voice of our community represented, and that community is able to engage with our product teams.

Can you discuss some courageous marketing decisions you've had to make?

Yeah. When I joined Autodesk, I was very fortunate. I am very fortunate because our CEO, Andrew, before he became CEO, he was the Chief Marketing officer. So he ran all of marketing in addition to running, actually product strategy. So I'm very fortunate in that our CEO understands marketing. It's not often that happens. So it's really wonderful. I joke with him because we both went to Stanford, but he's a PhD and I just have a little MBA over here, so not exactly the same thing. But he's someone who I learn a lot from and somebody who I think really respects the craft of marketing. Now, I say that to say it makes it easier to be courageous in that environment. And in an environment where you have a CEO who's like, what's marketing again? Why do you exist?

But still, it still takes courage. I would say one of the most courageous things that my team, and I give a lot of credit to my team, all the credit to my team, is becoming the official designer make platform for the LA28 Olympic and Paralympic Games and Team USA, because that was not something we had ever done before at Autodesk. We hadn't done a sports partnership of that scale before. So why did we do it? We did it because we had already earned the right to be in this story. Autodesk software had already been a part of designing and making the Olympic Games for many different seasons, but we just hadn't ever told the story. And so by becoming the official Design on a platform of the LA28 games. We are finally telling the story, but we've earned the right to tell the story. The second thing that was so compelling is LA28 is trying to make this the most sustainable games ever. Ever. This will be the first games with no new permanent venues. So we will be retrofitting over 40 venues across the Los Angeles area, leaving LA in a better place than before the Games. And so to be a part of that sustainability journey, which is core to the Autodesk brand, was huge for us. And third, but certainly by no means least was the commission. The commercial opportunity. It's a $7 billion commercial opportunity that's great for Autodesk, but not just for for us. It's great for our partners, it's great for our customers, it's great for our ecosystem. And it's not even 2028 and we are already seeing the ROI of that. So it was difficult because we were going to do something we had never done before, right? So it had to explain why we're going to do something we've never done before. Something of a significant magnitude. But I'm really proud of the team because boy is it paying off, right? We're not even in 2028 yet and we have already seen started to see the incredible return on investment. And more than anything, our why we exist is to design and make a better world for all. So to be a part of designing and making a better games for everyone, the most sustainable games ever, I mean, it's wonderful.

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I want to get a little personal with you, you know, since I started off by asking if you're married, which is probably not the first question you face in most podcasts.

It's okay. We could go guy. We could go anywhere you want to go. We could go anywhere you want to go.

You know, I bet in your career, in many circumstances, you were, quote unquote, the only woman, the only young person, the only black person. And in your case, you're the trifecta. You're black and female, right?

So welcome to my world.

Seriously. So what is your world like?

It's tough. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I think very often. My husband and I, we've been married for 12 years. He's one of the most incredible human beings I've ever met. And he's seen my journey and we were talking about it, and it's like when he walks into the room, people assume he deserves to be there. So he starts from a place of, oh, welcome. Have a seat. When I walk into a room, the first thing is, why is she here? You see what I'm saying?

Just to get the full impact of this. Is he white?

My husband is white.

Okay, okay.

So he walks into a room, and the first thing is, oh, welcome. Have a seat. Of course you deserve to be here. He has to do something to make people question why he's there. Whereas I walk into a room and people are like, why is she here? And in today's world, is she dei? No, I'm not. Okay. I am excellence. And I start from a place of doubt. I start from a place of uncertainty. So I have to prove myself and reprove myself. And I better be walking around with my bag of receipts because no matter who I am, no matter how successful I become, I walk into a room, I'm a young black woman. I better have my receipts.

Even in 2021.

Especially in 2025.

Why? Why especially?

I think now. Now people feel emboldened, I think, to say some of the quiet things they were saying that I think are in some cases racist, in some cases offensive. People feel like they can now say it out loud, and that can Be very jarring. It's been my story. It's been my journey. I'm not a pity party person, so I don't like pity parties. And I don't go to them. I don't host them. So in my mind, I'm like, this is my journey. This is my experience. I wish it wasn't, but it is what it is. And so I just focus on how can I be the best I can be in every scenario? But it would be disingenuous to not say that being a young black woman is not a disadvantage. It absolutely is.

Okay, so now my podcast is about six years old, which means 300 people.

Wow.

About. I would say 200. Or women. I've often thought, why don't I just call my podcast Remarkable Women instead of Remarkable?

Thank you, guys for giving women a voice. Thank you.

Yeah. Now, and I will tell you something I noticed is that almost every woman talks about the imposter syndrome, and no men ever talk about the imposter syndrome. So have you dealt with the imposter syndrome?

Absolutely. I think that when people question you every time you start to question yourself. Right. If people are doubting you constantly and you're having to always reprove, prove yourself, and then reprove yourself and then reprove yourself, it's impossible not to at least have a day where you wake up and you're like, oh, I've certainly dealt with it. But I think what I try to focus on is controlling what I can control. And that is, I want to. Look, there's only so much energy and time that any human has in this world, and I want to make sure that I'm using my energy and I'm using my time to live a positive impact on the world around me and the people that I love and the teams that I have the privilege to lead. So I put all my energy in there. When I'm feeling imposter syndrome, what I tell myself is, dara, let it go. Focus on what you can control and try to be the best version of yourself that you can be in this moment. And don't worry about, are you good enough. Do your very best. Work hard. And I put in the work. I put in the work. I'm always prepared, and I'm not afraid to fail. I'm not afraid to try new things. I'm not afraid to also admit what I. I don't know. I don't believe in fake it till you make it. I never fake it. I don't want to fake it. I just want to make It. So I'm willing to learn and try and do the hard work to make sure that I deliver.

Okay, so now we are in October 2025. You are the CMO of Autodesk. Are you telling me you still have pangs of imposter syndrome?

Absolutely.

To this day.

To this day.

I mean, you got Stanford, you got Harvard, you got Peloton, you got Autodesk. Like what? More ge. How can you have imposter syndrome today?

I still do. And part of that is that just being me, right? Even with all of my success, and I say this with all humility, I still have to constantly prove myself and reprove myself because of who I am and what I look like. And so that's just the reality of being a black woman in corporate America.

Makes no sense to me, but, okay.

It'S the reality now. I don't let that bring me down. I'm still filled with hope. I'm filled with optimism. I love being an American. I'm proud to be an America. And my husband is a Marine. I love this country. I'm proud to be a part of this country. And it's actually because I love this country that I'm able to say, hey, there are still things we got to work on. But that doesn't mean this is not, you know, I think, the greatest country on earth. Team usa.

So what if there are young black women listening or watching this podcast and, you know, they want advice from you because imposter syndrome or not, you are a hero to them.

First of all, I would tell them to control what they can control. Don't worry about the things you cannot control. Right? You can't control what other people say. You can't control how they think. You can't control how they feel. But you can control what you say. You can control what you do. You can control how you respond to whatever is thrown at you. And there is so much power in that, and there is no limit. The only limit is the one you place on yourself.

But if society in 2025 is still trying to tell these young black women to step back and dim your fire and whatever, what do you say to them?

Tune that noise down and tune up the support. Because, yes, society might be saying all that, but they're going to be people in your life who are going to tell you you're amazing. They're going to be people in your life who believe in you. Turn the volume up there and turn the volume down on the noise.

And how do you find those people?

You know, you find Those people by actively seeking them. I think it it for most people, like for me, it's our family, it's our friends, it's our close friends, it's the mentors who actually care. They have time for you. It's often cuz people ask me, how do I find a mentor? The person who cares and has time for you. Right. If you've emailed someone's EA and they've told you they can't meet with you until 2028, that is not your mentor. Right. Your mentor is the person who. They're just that natural connection, right. They look at, they're like, wow, I want to invest in this person. I believe in this person. So when you find those people, follow up and the power of follow up, that is one thing I will say. I think that there's so much power in the follow up. A lot of people ask for something once. Not a lot of people come back to say thank you. Be the person that comes back to say thank you.

I think my experience is not only do they not come back and say thank you, most people never even make the ask. They don't do anything like, you know, at all these things. Even my emails, I put my cell phone in every signature, tell people my email, my phone's not ringing. It's weird. People want to get your contact info, but they never follow up.

Isn't that incredible? They don't do anything with it. That's what I mean. It's like the power of the follow up. Like they meet you guy, I want to get your. You give them and then they don't do anything with it. So follow up.

I would say 90% of people don't follow up. And then 90% of the people who follow follow up don't say thanks.

Exactly. So imagine being that rock star that not only follows up, but also says thank you. Right? Those are the people that you're gonna move heaven and earth for because those are the rare gems.

All right, Dara, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. This was a real treat. A real treat. Thank you.

So this has been the Remarkable People podcast. It's just a typical episode of the podcast. And I want to thank Dara, I want to thank. To thank all the staff who told me not to ask those questions.

And I want to thank Madison Nysmer, our co producer, Jeff C. Our co producer, and of course Shannon Hernandez, sound design engineer, and Tessa Nysmer, researcher and Laetel and all the people here. So it's a whole team behind me that makes this so fun and so successful. But thank you very much.

Thank you so much, Guy. Thanks for having me. Me.

This is remarkable, people.