Josh Peck: Actor, Social Media Influencer, and Author of Happy People are Annoying

Here's something remarkable and not in a good way. Disengaged employees cost US companies almost $1.9 trillion a year. That's a lot of zeros. Why? Because when teams lack the right skills, productivity declines, turnover increases, and strategies stagnate. But it doesn't have to be that way. At Project Management Institute, home of the PMP and globally recognized certifications, your people can learn to collaborate, deliver on time, and actually get things the cost of not upskilling way higher than the investment Project Management Institute. Find the answers@pmi.org Guy Kawasaki here.

I want to recommend a podcast. It's called Female Startup Club. It's hosted by Dune Roisin and is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. If you're looking for a new podcast, Startup Club shares tips, tactics and strategies from some of the world's most successful female founders, entrepreneurs and women in business. It covers topics like who should be your first hire and how to build a great community. Listen to Female Startup Club wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is remarkable people. In case you haven't figured this out, let's I'm on a mission to make you remarkable. Today's guest is actor, writer, comedian, podcaster, YouTuber, social media influencer, son, husband and father, Josh Peck. Josh has held lead roles in iconic television shows including Drake and Josh on Nickelodeon, the Disney series Turner and Hooch, and How I Met yout Father on Hulu. He has over 12 million followers on Instagram, 7.5 million followers on TikTok, and 2.6 million followers on Twitter. Josh is the author of a new book, Happy People Are Annoying. In it, he shows humor and deep vulnerability and tells his personal story, which was not all sunshine and rainbows. But that's part of what makes him remarkable. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. And now here is the remarkable Josh Peck. Oh yeah, special bonus and the remarkable Barbara Peck. I've had about 125 guests and I always tell my kids, oh, you know, I'm having Jane Goodall or Steve Wozniak or whatever. And when I said I'm having Josh Pack, they said, what? You're getting Josh Peck. You have created the most excitement of anybody I have had on my podcast with my two teenage kids, you're telling.

Me they weren't, they weren't hyped to hear Mark Benioff?

Just between you and me, they didn't know who he was.

They sound like they're exactly where they should be, but I Appreciate that. I'm so glad.

I also have to admit that until I read your book, I didn't know there was such a thing as Spanx for men.

I gotta say, I was an early male Spanx adopter. Like, I could have been the. The male Sarah Blakely had I been a bit more industrious. But I. I missed my opportunity, I guess.

That's quite all right. I'm fairly familiar with what my. What books my kids have to read in high school, and a lot of it is, let's just say, sit in Elizabethan England. And I would say that your book really should be required reading in high school. It is so much more relevant than Shakespeare or any of them, Machiavelli, any of that stuff.

Oh, my God, I appreciate that. You think of Josh, Penny. Think of me and Billy. Shakespeare, for sure.

Exactly in the same breath.

It was certainly presumptuous, perhaps of me, or very millennial of me to write a reluctant memoir at 35 where hopefully my life is pretty incomplete. But I wanted to be able to write something from the perspective of someone still in the fight where being in my late teens and twenties was fresh. So hopefully people like your kids and a little bit older could relate, as opposed to being in my 50s or 60s and probably having some cooler experiences to write about, but maybe not with the same perspective.

Josh, let me just say that if. If we waited until you were 60 or 50 to write this memoir, then arguably my kids should listen to me too. So we know that's not going to work. So right there, bada bing, bada bang.

Good point.

And this is just. I'm fanboying a little, but I was so impressed with the breadth of your jokes from all over, from tech and from the story about the cancer that wasn't a joke, but the cancer cure at the end of the book. And. And just your little. Just your little zingers in there that I hope everybody catch. I have two of my favorites. I gotta tell you this. We'll really do an interview at some point. Josh.

Okay, I like this.

Okay, but when you said the. The story about the person and thought that he or she was gonna go to Google headquarters versus the geriatric WeWork man, I thought that was so funny. And now I'm an author. I understand. Sometimes after I have a book out and somebody says, oh, yeah, I thought that story was so great in your book. And I'm thinking there, what the hell story are they talking about? Because I wrote that book two years ago, and I don't know what they're talking about. So I hope you're not having one of those moments. But the best line of the book, in my humble opinion, is this. And I'm going to quote this one verbatim, and it goes. Here's the last thing I'll say. Follow me on Instagram. I had to laugh out loud when I read that. Now I hope I've proven that I really did read and study your book. So when I ask you this next question, the spirit in which I'm asking it, not because I'm a dumbass, but I know that there's an edge to this answer. I want to prep this. So, Josh Petticoat, are you still acting?

Oh, my God. That question has brought me down so many times in my life. It's the bane of every actor's existence, is first and foremost, it's, what are you up to? Because if someone has to ask, it means not much, right? I mean, most of the time, right? Because when you have some. No one's wondering what the Rock is up to. It's energy, dreams, introducing the super bowl, and whatever $200 million movie he's got coming out. I talk about for many years how my ego was so wrapped up in this profession of mine that if anyone would ask me something like that or even say, are you still acting? It would take a Herculean amount of effort for me to, like, slowly look at them and say, yes, I'm still acting.

Yeah.

And that was one of my great challenges I had to face.

Oh, my God, you let it all hang out there. So I don't think any question will offend you. But I may ask questions that people who have not read your book may think, God, guy, you're such an asshole to ask that question.

But, oh, have at it. I love it.

I give you the freedom to say, guy, let's just not go there. Or, you know, off, guy, whatever you want to say.

Okay.

All right. So, all right. Your book says sort of eerily predicted something along the lines that, you know, by the time you read this, this Disney plus series, Turner and Hooch could be canceled, and it doesn't matter. So now it was canceled. And does it still not matter?

Wow, that's such a great. That's a really great question. And you're right. You know, I had an opportunity to change that line and to save face, because when I first turned in that, my first sort of draft of the book in probably May of 2001, we had just finished filming, and it was going to come out in July. And I knew that by the time my last rewrite would be given in, we'd find out whether or not. And I could have saved things. I could have said it didn't work out and that's okay, or figured out some fun joke or some way to sort of take the onus off of just to try to cut any sort of level of maybe perceived embarrassment or what have you. But again, that moment in the book comes after walking through 20 years of discomfort and facing so many different challenges, and inevitably in my 30s, looking at my life holistically from having a wife and a kid and some financial security and most importantly, being person I was proud to be. And I knew when I booked that job that it would only slightly increase the level of enjoyment in my life and it wouldn't decrease it at all if I didn't get it. And so to your point, it didn't matter. And no, it still doesn't matter because I'm on how I met your father on Hulu right now. No, I'm kidding. It just is what it is. It's part of the fight. And I hope that what I'm conveying is in the book is this idea of you can still be ambitious, you can still go for your goals and have a good life throughout that process.

I'm really curious at this point, and you are an old 30, and I don't mean that as an insult. I mean, you've been through a lot and I think you have a great perspective. So at this point, what do you want to be remembered for?

I've already done my will because I have a kid. And so, you know, it's. You got to do the responsible thing. And I literally. My lawyer looked at me like I was nuts. I said, I'd like to be dropped in some dirt, no casket. He's like, I don't think this is legal. I said, let's try. And I would like some dirt thrown on me. And the quicker I can become energy for the animals that live in that dirt so that I can repollinate the world with what's left of me. I want no marker. I don't care about being remembered, because here's the truth. I've done some cool stuff, you've done some even more cool stuff, guy. But we're both not Mozart. And so there's a good chance that despite how cool we are, we're going to be forgotten regardless. Mozart, Obama, and, I don't know, Tesla, who knows? A couple people, a handful of people per millennia, are remembered and I've made my peace with, I'm probably not going to be one of them. And that's okay.

That's a healthy attitude. It may in fact lead you to be remembered.

I'll take it.

Now we're going to get into the place where people may say, guy, you should not have asked that kind of question.

So good, let's make it uncomfortable. Okay.

So how do you think the arc of your life would have been different if you had a dad growing up?

I mean, the smallest decision could change the trajectory of our lives completely. Right. I love this idea and I use it as a metaphor for change, but that a boat even one degree off of its initial course over time will end up in a completely different place. So that's a small adjustment. 50% of your parental system being involved, well, that's massive. So it's probably a world I wouldn't, I, I wouldn't recognize. And, and I talk about when dealing with a big reason why it took me into my 20s to deal with not having a dad and how that really affected my life was because throughout my early adolescence and teenage years, I knew that I was embarking on this wild, different life. Being a young actor, moving to California, performing at comedy clubs when I'm 10 years old, getting snuck in through the back door so they would lose their liquor license. And it was as though my mom and I were like these misfits and I had someone co signing this crazy life that I was living and her and I together were uniquely sort of made to deal with that. And, and I was pleased to not have another parent who in theory probably would have been, understandably, have some objections about the way we were living. So, so I know that my life was perfectly suited for me, but had I had a father, I think I, I probably would have had a completely different life.

And do you think the weight and drugs would have still happened?

So there's a great, there's a great term in, in 12 step or in sobriety here. And it's one of the, you know, we're, we're full of great slogans, but it's like from Penn State to the State Penn or from Park Avenue to the park bench or from addiction comes in all shapes and sizes. And I've certainly met plenty of fellow travelers in my time in sobriety of people who either had never had enough, had too much or had just enough and still they couldn't escape addiction. So I don't know, I don't know if we've ever actually isolated the gene, but I certainly think that if you have a proclivity for it, no matter how healthy your. Your system is growing up, it certainly helps. But I don't know if it's totally avoidable.

Are we comfortable going down these paths? I'm, I'm sensitive to that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Oh, guy, I'm here with you.

I probably am going to ask you questions and no other podcast is going to ask you. Okay. For better or for worse, I don't see Terry Gross asking you that question. But so if, if, if you, if you believe in the afterlife, let's say we do for a second. So if you met your dad in the afterlife, how would that conversation go?

Wow. In the afterlife, I'd be like, have you met Beethoven? What's it like up here? Is there a buffet? My hope for heaven is it's just a not. It's a non stop higher end sitzler, to be honest, guys. And you don't gain any weight. It's just an unlimited scissor buffet. And dessert is heroin.

Oh, my.

I think if I saw my phone father, if I could talk to him, I hope that I would be in a place where I could just, like, get to know him. Because the reality is I don't know anything about him. And I know what my mom has mentioned. But as I say in the book, I think parents have, even when you're dealing with something like this, for my father was less than honorable in certain areas. I think my mom, in an effort to save me pain, put sort of a halo of decency around the entire situation. And then. And I talked in the book how it wasn't into my 20s when I looked up his other family and saw pictures of him on Facebook with his family and his kids, that I saw that as far as I know, like, this wasn't a guy who. Maybe there are other versions of me out there, or maybe this was just a guy who made a mistake and was the father I wanted him to be for me, for them. And I can't be the arbiter of the ultimate. Right. You know, I just, I think he was a flawed guy who was scared and also in his 60s at the time. He had me. So it really meant my father was, you know, getting Social Security and chicks pregnant. And it was in the final chapter.

Can you take us inside the mindset of a teenager who weighs 300 pounds? Like, what? What is it like inside that body?

What I've come to learn now is that when you are that size and maybe 300 pounds, for a kid who's 16 and not above 6ft at that weight, no matter what, it's a representative of something going, going awry. But even if you're heavy set sometimes it can be a representative of someone who loves food and doesn't think twice about their size, doesn't have insecurity about it, is totally at peace and likes to enjoy life in a way or maybe just doesn't have a interest in exercise in the way that I do now. And I think that's fabulous. I would look at kids growing up who would whip their shirt off at the pool and kind of have a belly or just be a little bit overweight and it didn't affect them in any way. And I look at them like superheroes, like, how are you impervious to all the things that I feel when I take my shirt off? For me, being that size was, was a manifestation of, of some real insecurity that was going on inside of me, some real discomfort, unhappiness. And I, I couldn't diagnose that then. All I knew was that sugar and junk food was my first foray into using something outside of myself to quiet my inner dialogue. That committee that woke up a few minutes before I did every morning that told me why I wasn' or why things weren't going to work out. And I don't know where that was installed from because I remember being pretty insecure from as far back as I can remember. But I'm sure having financial insecurity and not having sort of that traditional family structure support system meant that, that I needed something outside of me to really feel okay with the world because I just remember feeling quite powerless. So it was, it was challenging. And I remember writing this chapter about when I finally decided to lose weight. And my, my advisor on the book, Ryan Holiday, this was the chapter where he was hardest on me because he was like, everything in your life changed when you lost weight. It was the pivotal moment of your life. And if you don't get really honest and talk to the 16 year old version of you in a way that would make you cry, then we're not going to understand, for lack of a better word, the weight of what you were going through at that time.

And how about you take us inside the mindset of an addict?

It's, it's the same mind, right? It's when I finally lost 100, I lost 120 pounds. And there I was at 18 years old with a new body, but the same mind. And so when I found drugs and alcohol, it was mostly Just drugs. I was like, oh, this is so more, so much more efficacious and so few calories. It's like, it's like trading a Prius for a Ferrari. Like, this is a, this is a smart business. The resale value alone. And, and so I, because, and this is as true as I can be, is that I was never trying to kill myself. I was trying to kill the part of me that wouldn't let me live. And that, that governor that I talked about, that committee that woke up with me every morning. And when I did drugs for the first time, I didn't know what to expect to feel. I did it because of a girl, because I wanted her to like me. I wanted to be typical. I'd spent my whole life being less than normal. Even in some extraordinary ways of getting my own TV show and whatnot, I still felt terribly unique in a way that was not favorable for me. So when I was 18 and suddenly I wasn't worried about supporting the family. I wasn't worried about being the lead of some show that employed 200 people. I was being a knucklehead. I was being supremely stupid with a bunch of other 18 year olds and I looked like them, I was their size. And this girl, I thought liked me and I was doing something that she was doing. I didn't know how I was going to feel from the drugs. I just hoped that she was watching because I wanted to be like everybody else and. But then when I took that deep breath and I spent that night being what I thought the thing that I'd always been searching for, which was a guy with, with, with confidence and who's erudite and great and great at schmoozing and just sort of like a raconteurs. As soon as that clicked in, I thought, oh, why would I ever want to feel any other way? And that led me to the next four years of basically burning my life down in the process.

Would you say you were running to something as opposed to running from something by taking drugs?

It's a great question. I guess. Yes, it was. And what was on the other side of, of drugs? Why? Why? I feel weirdly lucky that my thing was drugs and alcohol is that they're so efficacious and thus the consequence, it matches the effectiveness of it. Right. So you are driven to your knees quickly and hard in a way that either your health fails or just you ruin relationship after relationship. You become a pariah or you're, you go to jail. I mean, there's so many Repercussions for someone who's in sort of full flight in addiction. There are a lot of people who are able to navigate life with personality defects, Things that they do that are negative patterns in their life, but they're. They can kind of balance it. And then they look at themselves and they're 50s and go, why am I alone? It seems no one wants to be around me. And I've. I've accumulated some wealth and what I thought was prestige, and I have no one. And it's like, well, you never looked at yourself. And for me, what was on the other side of drugs and alcohol was that I had to look at these negative patterns. I had to look at all the ways that these defense mechanisms I'd accrued through my childhood that I thought were serving me, but in my adulthood was really these things I thought were assets had turned into defects, and they were driving me to look for something that would. Would numb those feelings. So I get. What I would say is I think I was always going towards that conclusion that I really had to face these demons. But the only way I would have ever faced them is because I had. I had given up all other options and was driven to my knees.

So do you have advice for people after they have been successful with a diet or after they're successful with aa?

I think it's just this acceptance. And I'm fascinated when people go, oh, you're sober 14 years, you still go to meetings, right? And I want to look at them and say, if I was, would you say that about working out? Would you say that about anything else in life? Would you assume that because you did it once, it would maintain you forever? And there's not a single thing like last night's meal won't keep you fed. And I just. I kept a certain level of maintenance and accepted this idea that I have to grow. I have to constantly face discomfort because as soon as I feel like I've found some sort of finish line, as soon as I've started to. Because I. I just want to. I. I want to fortify myself. I want to just get as much money and prestige and the romance of food and excess and just stay away, but that. That kind of. That's not sustainable. And. And even if that's possible, which I've never. I've never achieved that, it's. I. I don't think there's anything there. I love that Prince quote of I'. Mountaintop. And there's nothing there. Okay. So I. I have to be reminded of that.

I didn't think you look so bad as a quarterback in Red Dog. Let's just go on the record there, my man.

Thank you. I didn't either. I gotta say, with 10 years later, I think I looked pretty okay.

But I have a question. So as an actor, do you ever get a script like that and it says, well, North Korea is gonna invade Spokane, and bunch of me and my teenage buddies, we're gon resist this invasion. Do. Do you ever get a script like that and you say, okay, I must be on candid camera. This script is so stupid that someone's videoing my reaction to this. Or do you just say, all right, so, you know, when's the audition? How does that work?

Well, unless we forget, Red dawn is a reboot. I know of a movie that was once quasi successful, by the way, Shout Out, John Milley. It's no disrespect. Not the best movie either. Let's be real here. I think when enough time passes, people have such. They just have such an affection for something. Maybe they liked growing up in the 80s. But I just dealt with that with Turner and Hooch. When the reviews came in for the show and they were like, this could never touch the original. I'm like, guys, it's a sweet movie. It's not the Godfather. What are we talking about here? But it was. It was totally a ridiculous premise. I think the first one was. Was able to pass because it was slightly meta because of the Cold War. And the original sort of bad guys in quotes was Russia Invades America and it was Swayze and Charlie Sheen, and those kind of movies were just crushing it back then. But, yeah, I. If I was a producer today and that script comes past my desk, I think I might say, I think we'll pass on this one.

So I have an idea for you. So how about you be Reacher number three? So, you know, Tom Cruise was too short and this other guy's too big and can't act. You're right in the middle. You could be Reacher.

No, listen, I. I have learned how to. I remember a buddy of mine, because my issue in redone was I was trying to be Chris Hemsworth, which is the biggest joke of my life. Yeah, I was just doing a bad impression of what I thought an Alpha male was. And Chris, besides being incredibly lovely and professional, just happens to be physically gifted. And a buddy of mine once said, who's a similar look to me, a bit of a character actor and not the most physically, you know, dominating force. And he said, I can punch a guy in the face in a movie without irony. But I need to shake my hand off after. Like, it hurt. And that's how I can believe it. And I was like, same here.

And Chris doesn't know Chris.

Chris punches and he just, he swallows hard and he goes, wait, we're gonna move forward.

I think you're the Jewish Chris.

How's that, my man? I can't wait to tell my rabbi that.

So fast forward a few decades here and what do you think would have happened if vine wasn't killed? I mean, for you, not, not for social media.

Look, the. I guess in theory we have a great case study, right? Because vine then would have become what TikTok is now. And it was short form videos. And everything that TikTok has been able to do was things that we as creators were begging vine to do from the beginning. They lacked this ability that every startup needs, which is like the ability in which to pivot quickly, like make quick changes. And that's what's exciting about a new company like that, is that they're spry and light and they can take feedback and incorporate it quickly. And so we beg them for a music option. We beg them to be able to edit within the app. There were so many things that it just didn't seem possible for them to do so. But I would say that, listen, I, I do believe for the most part, and I've been able to sustain my, my place on social media and have a great business regardless. But it's a young man's game, so maybe I would have been able to, to ride a couple more years on a high and, and make some more money and do some more cool things. Inevitably, there was always someone nipping at my heels whose finger was more on the pulse. I think the best thing that could have happened is I would have sort of pivoted and maybe started my own version of like a branding company to sort of get the next young roster of creators and maybe having a piece of that. I think I would have had to diversify if I really wanted to get to an insane level.

You, you would be Gary Vaynerchuk and you'd buy the Jets. That would be it.

Oh my gosh. You know what's funny is my father in law was a quarterback for the jets for 10 years.

Joe Namas.

I told Gary Vaynerchuk that, yes, I am the, the son of law. Joe Namask. No, his name is Ken O' Brien and he was from 82 to 93, was the quarterback for the jets. And when I Told Gary that it was like I told him that he was going to be the President of the United States. I've never. And you know him, he's not easily impressed. I was like, wow, I really, I got. I'm going to be able to pull a favor from Gary at some time in my life. And I'm glad. Okay.

Another serious question, maybe the first one, but. So tell me about the lessons that you learned from your experience with Sharon Chattan.

Oh, absolutely. So Sharon Chattan is my acting teacher. And I had spent sort of the last 10 years in my career with this terrible sort of haunting feeling like I had some blind spots that I was at. That the best way to describe it was I was just inconsistent and there were parts and I continued to get roles, but I was either really good or really bad or somewhere in the middle. But there was just no consistency. And I would go to auditions and I would continue to go for my goal. But in a way, the blind spots were giving me this emotional out so that if I didn't get the job, I could always say, well, I didn't actually put 100% into it. And I think a lot of people live their life like that where they never truly give over everything they've got to something because the risk of failing is too emotionally painful. The idea that if I truly gave every ounce of myself to this and it didn't work out, well, what then? And especially because I'd been doing this thing since I was 10 years old and my family's well being was wrapped up in it. The prospect, and I may not be as good as I thought I was, was at times crippling. But I knew inevitably I had to look at it if I ever wanted to work at the level that I wanted to work at or maybe even ever work again. So I found Sharon through my friend Vincent d'. Onofrio. And I knew I could trust him because I respect him. And I try to ask people whose life I want, I try to ask their advice. And he said, there's one person to go see and her name is Sharon Chattanooga. And I went into her class and she proceeded to strip away everything that I was doing in such. Not in like a brutal way. It just in a way that was very clear and almost clinical. Like, oh, you obviously don't know the basics. You don't know the fundamentals of what's required for this craft, for real acting. And it took me months to reconcile this idea that I probably had more credits than anyone in the class and I was Doing the worst. But it was also what was required for me to finally feel confident as an actor after I basically pilloried myself in her class for the last five years.

But walk me through this. So you go to her class and there's other students.

Yeah.

And everybody says, oh, there's you know, Drake and Josh. Well, why does he need acting lessons? I mean he's been with, you know, he's been with Gandhi, Ben Kingsley in a movie. Why is he in his class?

I don't know what the reaction was, but I know that acting is weird. I believe it's this disease of something romantic came out of this idea of self taught in the 60s, right. Like you'd see these badass musicians and they'd say, well where did you learn how to do this? Like, oh, I'm self taught, like, or Steve Jobs and Wozniak. We made the first computer in a garage. Like it's just cooler than like I went to Juilliard or you know, I put in 20 years at IBM and then I got a good idea it's just not necessarily as sexy. But so when I went in there, I think basically I a needed to humble myself which to me has always been the first step, which is this idea of if I feel like I need to project the air of a great actor, it means I'm completely wrapped up in what you think of me and all these expectations. It isn't the art and it's not the work. So if I walk into that class and I go, I'm an actor amongst actors. I'm trying my best. I'm going to fail and be embarrassed in certain ways. But if I'm doing it correctly, it won't leave me feeling hopeless. It will leave me feeling closer to where I'm trying to get. And there's not a single great. You heard Kobe was the urban legend of Kobe. But I'm pretty sure it's true that like win or lose, he would hit X amount of free throws by himself up in the gym after every game. I talked to, I'm sure, you know, Tim Grover who was Michael Jordan's trainer and, and he said win or lose, after each game I'd look at Mike and say 6, 7 or 8. What time are we hitting the gym? So for a guy like me, that's, that's what's required. It's, I mean I have class tomorrow and I had the best year of work that I'd ever had last year as an actor. But I knew if I wanted for me to not feel like a phony or an imposter. I need to humble myself to the process regularly.

Up next on Remarkable People.

I'm my mom's biggest fan and so I would say that the way in which my mom got my big brother, you have to. You are superheroes. And yet there is only so much you can do as playing the role of both parents and for the things that you can't actually do. There's nothing weak about outsourcing it to to other people who can possibly be helpful.

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Oh, she treats everyone like that. And now that I've been in class for many years, I. I see she and I. I don't want to make it sound more extreme than it is, but it is slightly like being a new recruit in the military, which is the students that get her. Now that I've been in class for a long time, we have this shorthand and she knows what I'm capable of, she knows what I'm able to hear and she knows that I want to get better. Like I have this desire. But when you're new, she's feeling you out and we've created so many protective casings for ourselves, especially as, as actors. I remember hearing the story of a great teacher I once went to. Her name was Susan Batson and she was coaching Tom Cruise for the movie Magnolia. And her biggest note to Tom was like, you cannot smile. Because she felt like it was this protective thing, this charming. I mean, Tom Cruise has $1 million smile. And I think she wanted to make sure that he wasn't using it as a bit of a defense. And so I think Sharon is cognizant of that in actors early on that you have to get stripped down slightly to be able to really hear what she said.

I sometimes do what I call a lightning round and I ask rather insipid A or b questions. Mac, PC, Android, iOS or whatever. But I'm not going to do that with you. And I'm going to ask kind of a lightning advice round for various people based on your experiences, I think could be the most valuable contribution of this episode. You've been through a lot and yet you're relatable to young people. So that's kind of why I'm asking these questions. Because if I were to ask Ben Kingsley this question, half the people wouldn't know who Ben Kingsley is. So I'm going to ask you advice for various populations. So advice question number one. Kids without dads.

I would say one of the greatest helps for me was my mom at 8 years old took me to the Jewish Big Brothers foundation and I got a big brother named Dan who's was the best man in my wedding. He's been in my life over 28 years. And I was able to pick up apostles throughout my life, men who. Who had what I wanted and freely shared their experience with me. And it came in the form of my big brother. And now for the last 10 years, I've had it in my father in. So I think it was a willingness instead of being frustrated the world that you didn't get the perfect version of what other people have received. Instead you collect your own heroes and.

These you call apostles.

Yeah, I would say so. An apostle is someone who tells you something that you're not ready to hear yet. And if your reaction to. I always say if you're wondering who your last apostle was, just trying to remember someone who told you something and the first four things you thought were fuck them, I'm the worst, they're probably right, but it's too late. Final do it. And when someone says that to me and I go through those four things in quick order, I know they've said something important. And I couldn't have come to that on my own, which is why they're an apostle.

How do you separate an apostle from an asshole?

Oh, I guess if it's just, you don't have two, three, and four, you just have F them.

Next population single moms raising kids.

I don't. I mean, I would say that my. Probably my mom is better suited to give advice, but I would say as the child of a single parent, we are your. We. We are your biggest fans. We are your co pilots. My mom and I talk about it, we were like a startup. My other friends in traditional family systems, they were like the lower employee. Their parents were upper management. But my mom and I were kind of this scrappy startup that had to figure out ways to get through life and quickly pivot. I'm my mom's biggest fan, and so I would say that the way in which my mom got my big brother, you have to. You are superheroes. And yet there is only so much you can do as playing the role of both parents and for the things that you can't actually do. There's nothing weak about outsourcing it to. To other people who can possibly be helpful.

People who are overweight.

You know, people will ask me advice on how to lose weight, and I want to give them some hack or secret because I know how badly I wanted it at that time. And what I would say is this. If you are feeling sick and tired of being sick and tired, if you're at a loss, if you're at a bottom, and you just. I can't believe that you, you know, you're in this position yet again where you're feeling slightly hopeless. My first answer would be, I'm so sorry you're going through that, because I know how painful that can be. And my next answer would be, that's a really good place to make a change. Congratulations. It's a great place to start because for me, I never learned anything on a good day. Pain has been the great motivator of my life. And it's only when I've been brought down to my knees that I've been willing to either try it someone else's way or finally take the steps I knew was necessary. When I walked into that acting class, after 10 years of doing bad work, I said I felt like I had completed an errand I had put off for 10 years. Wow. It was like I removed a little pebble in my shoe that I just walked around with and grit and bared it.

Maybe I should have glommed this in with the last question, but people who are addicted to drugs or alcohol, again.

It'S a similar approach about trying it someone else's way and getting Sick and tired. And if you're at that place, it's a great place to start. And I would say that there's not one way I found it through 12 step. People find it other ways. The sad, the, the sad reality is, is that most people won't get sober. But if you are having an existential moment, if you've had some sort of crisis, a DUI or you've lost a job or something bad has happened that's the result of your drinking using, it's a real gift. If you are in a place where you feel like you might even want to try something different or try to get better, know that there are many people who never make it to that point and they either die or they just live long crappy lives. So what you do with that information can really make all the difference.

Last population Parents of teenage kids.

Oh man, I don't know. I just, I have a three year old and, and I'm a big fan of his and it seems if I take him to the trampoline park I can do no wrong. But I, I would say this to all my relationship with all people which is, you know, attraction rather than promotion. Model the thing you want to be, especially when it comes to your kids. It's great to say the right things. But if you do the right things over and over, I think that's incredibly powerful. Especially when you have a young person who's watching your every mood and also unfortunately giving some people the dignity of their own experience. And that kills me. And I worry about what am I going to tell my kid about drugs and alcohol when they you knowing that his dad has been in recovery for X amount of time but all I can do is sort of give him the best, sort of the best knowledge I have and say I know that I can't watch you every second. I know that if you're dead set on doing something dumb, you're gonna do it. But I just want you to know all the things that I faced and my perspective on things and I hope that I can protect him from unnecessary pain as much as possible.

It's possible that someday your son is going to be in a class and the assigned reading is your book and everybody in the class is going to say that's his father who wrote that book. And I think that'll be a very proud moment because, well, it a means your book has lasted for what, another 15 years or so, right?

It'd be perennial babe. We both be at community college if they're reading my book this Ain't gonna be Harvard, but I'll take it.

Oh, I disagree. I completely disagree. Don't sell yourself short. No, no, no, no.

Thank you so much.

This is a very powerful book because it's so, like, the bullshit fact. You have a negative bullshit factor in this book. I mean, seriously, there's a negative amount of bullshit. It's not zero. It's negative. I have to tell you a little story to build it up, so to increase the probability of you saying yes. So I interviewed Sal Khan of Khan Academy, and he tells the story of the genesis of Khan Academy is that his niece was having trouble with algebra, and so he started Khan Academy to help her learn algebra. So me being the clever kind of NPR wannabe that I am, I heard that story. I said, wow, I bet nobody has ever interviewed her to get her side of the story. Like, was that true? Did Uncle Sal really do that for me? Is that total. Just corporate bullshit for him to raise money? So I interviewed her, and, well, it was a great interview. So this leads me to my question, which is, you think I could call your mom up? You think she'd agree to that or you'd agree to that?

My mother? Yeah, she'd love it.

Yeah.

Listen, my. My mom is. She's an unrealized performer. I. I'm pretty sure she could walk on Broadway tomorrow. So, yeah, if you wanted to ask her a couple questions, I might. You know, I might be over her shoulder, giving her the eye. No, I'm kidding.

Of course I followed through. But I didn't call her at the right time. Lucky for us. Actually, I called her the next day and she didn't answer her phone, so I got her voicemail. Listen to this.

Someday when I'm awfully low and the world seems cold I will feel the glow Just thinking of you and the way you look tonight Leave me a message.

Didn't you just love that? So finally we did connect, and this is our telephone conversation.

How are you?

Sorry about Friday. I just.

Hey, listen, it happens.

Yeah. But I gotta tell you, the side benefit of that is I got to listen to your voice message, which is just remarkable.

Thank you. I change it every few days. I gotta give people a little thrill.

I hope a lot of people call you and you miss their call.

I hope so. You never know.

As you probably know, I interviewed Josh, and it was a remarkably fun and interesting and deep interview. And I thought that speaking to mom would add just another dimension to it.

So here I am.

Why don't we just start off with. Tell us the story of his weight and his drugs and what was going on from your perspective.

He didn't start that till much later with the drugs. I mean, he was much older. And quite honestly, I didn't know the depths of it, so it was all very surprising to me. But after a while, of course, I knew. And you know, you love your kid, you want the best for them, so I definitely tried to intervene whenever I could. And as far as the weight goes, I have a weight problem myself. In my 70s, I'm still not able to lick, but I'm in a program, and that helps a lot. But food is a passion of mine, and I guess being a Jewish mother, it was of his. So he had a weight problem. And I loved him always, and I would always cheer him on, and I'd say, josh, when you're ready, you'll lose the weight. But I never bugged him about it because as a teenager and as a kid, my parents did bug me, and it was painful. I felt very rejected.

Would you offer some advice to single moms or really moms in general if they have children with issues like this?

Talk about it. Definitely get help. There's a lot of programs. All the anonymous programs are wonderful. Just stay close to your children. And I didn't realize a lot of things, even though we were so close to certain things he was doing, because eating compulsively, there's a lot of shame involved. Like, you want to hide it. You think you're a bad person, but quite honestly, it's an illness. And it's not like you're a bad person. And you need willpower. You really need support in any of those weight programs to keep it off, because so many people relapse. But my son really worked hard at it, and his book, to me, is such a story of victory. He turned his whole life around.

When people write their memoir, there's this temptation to sort of whitewash it and look how glorious I am and how I overcame all these things. But he lets it hang out in that book. Couldn't be more truthful in that book.

Absolutely. And as a mom, your son is writing something like that. Of course I felt sad at times because you never want your kids to go through anything. But as far as not having a dad involved, I mean, it hurts. But again, every time I read something that I felt badly about for him, I look at him today and I say, oh, my God, I don't know that I could ever have done what he's done and keep his professional career intact and his Reputation in the business world is flawless. And that makes me most proud of his integrity.

And he made your grandmother right.

Oh, that is the greatest gift. We had brunch yesterday. Went to our favorite deli in California and I'm sitting there with the little guy and I said, max, what else can I buy you? What other toys? He said, grandma, everything. So Josh said to him, you know, honey, when you do that and it's not good behavior, you really have to say you're sorry. And Maxie at 3 years old, looks at him and says, dad, but I don't feel sorry. Is that cute or what?

Just so I know what deli is this, so I know what deli to go to.

Factors on Pico. It's one of our favorite delis. Matter of fact, on the children's menu, they named a dish after Max.

Oh, that's great. But not after Josh.

Well, it's a kids menu, Josh. Wherever we go, they're always yelling his name. And it's crazy. It seems like every kid knows who he is because Drake and Josh and we just did something Turner and Hooch for Disney plus. And then he did this other one I love. What is it? I love my father or something. Or finding my father with Hilary Duff. And now he's leaving tomorrow for another movie that he's doing and he's speaking at the Y about his book in a few weeks, which is in New York, very prestigious.

So all things considered, life is good.

Oh, goodness. I'm so grateful and so blessed. I have a great daughter in law, incredible family and I thank God every day. I gotta be honest, Guy.

So there you have it. Josh and Barbara Peck. A remarkable story about resilience, about change, about dealing with problems from child actor overweight through drugs, changing all of that, becoming a father. What a remarkable story. Josh Peck, formerly of Drake and Josh. Don't forget Josh has a new book called Happy People are annoying. If you have teenage kids, you should buy them a copy. I think it'd be very useful for them to read about the trials and tribulations of someone they probably consider very cool. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. My thanks to Pig Fitzpatrick, Shannon Hernandez and Jeff C. Also to the rest of the team, Madison drop in Queen Nesmer, Alexis Nishimura and Luis Magana. Until next time, be safe, be happy and be healthy. Mahalo and aloha. This is remarkable people.