Kara Goldin: Founder and CEO of Hint, Author of Undaunted

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I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. This episode's guest is Kara Golden. She is the founder and CEO of Hint, the lifestyle company that sells bottled water and hand sanitizers. Prior to Hint, she worked for aol, CNN and Time and, well, technically the TP restaurant in Arizona. She is a graduate of Arizona State University. This episode starts with a story about an executive from a large beverage company in Atlanta addressing her as Sweetie and how that was a pivotal moment in her undaunted quest to start a company. Today, Hint is over 15 years old and sales exceed $150 million. It has gone from employing Kara and her husband to over 200 people.

This episode of Remarkable People is brought to you by Remarkable, the paper tablet company. Yes, you got that right. Remarkable is sponsored by Remarkable.

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Check out the recent reviews of the latest version. I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. And now, here is Kara Golden, AKA Sweetie.

Has anyone called you Sweetie recently?

Recently, no. But someone has in the past called me Sweetie and maybe one day they'll actually regret that.

I'm pretty sure he regrets it already. So can you just tell us the story? Because I think that is a great story.

It came at a time when I was really giving up. I was having doubts and feeling like there's no way I'm going to be able to do this. We had gotten our product Hint into some stores in the Bay Area where I live. Whole Foods was kind of the first one, but we couldn't figure out things like shelf life and distribution. And I'm like, what am I doing? This is. This is crazy. I should not be here. So a friend introduced me to somebody at one of those large soda companies down in Atlanta. And that narrows it down.

Yeah, to New York.

Yes, exactly. And so I was introduced and very nice gentleman, very senior level gentleman. And get. Got on the phone with him and I said, listen, I. I've gotten this thing off the ground. I think it's. It's got some legs. I gotten it into Whole Foods, but I really can't figure out the shelf life and the distribution. And so you can. I didn't even know going into this call that I was going to say this. I said, I. I just want it to, like, live and so you can have it. I didn't even think, like, I didn't even know those words were going to come out of my mouth, but I just said, I'm. I'm kind of done. And he said, sweetie, Americans love sweet. This product is going nowhere. And so I'm like, wait a minute. He just called me sweetie. Like, again, it was a phone call. So it wasn't even, you know, sitting across the room from him. And then I quickly came back into. Mentally came back into the phone call because I was like, oh, this is. This. Obviously we're very different people, because I would never do that. What he did. But then in addition, it really kind of allowed me to pause for a minute and listen to him, because what I heard out of him for the next few minutes was his strategy and basically what he believed was success and that. And he went on to say that, that Americans love sweet and what they care about is calories. And so you're basically going down the wrong river. And I didn't believe that because I had seen that in my own life that I really felt like getting off of all this sweet was better for me and it had changed my health. And so I thought, well, he has a lot more money than I do, so I better like, throw the gas on as I'm going down my river. Because he might figure it out eventually and catch up. So it's a story that not only is. Is quite humorous, especially when it's happening to somebody else, but it's also a story, I think, that is important where, you know, if you're the underdog, right, and you get an opportunity to talk to the, The Darth Vader, right, The big bad competitor out there. It's. It's a beautiful opportunity instead to think. It doesn't mean that you're wrong. It. And it doesn't mean that having more experience makes them right, though, either. And. And it just means. It was validation for me that we were kind of on a different path for. For what our purpose was. My purpose was health. His purpose was just keep making it sweet and let's just get those calories out of there as quick as possible, because we're going to trick consumers into. Into believing that we're better.

Allegedly. Ken Olson, who was the CEO and founder of Digital Equipment, once said that no one wants a computer in their home. That's the same thing. If Laws and Jobs had seen him, right, it would be the same kind of story. So can I make the argument that if he had not said that, the.

Arc of your life might be different 100%? That was such a major moment for me where I just thought. I mean, I actually got off the phone. A lot of people have asked me, like, but because he had so much experience and because he came from such a brand and they had been doing this for so long, didn't you think at that point you should just give up? And I said no, because I never started hint to start a beverage company. I started it to help people get healthier. And this was really the piece that allowed me to help people get healthier. And we were on two very different paths. So when you're on two very separate paths and then you recognize pretty quickly how his advice might not have been relevant, and that is the way that I really looked at it. And I think your example about the computer is. Is right on, too. Like, maybe you didn't want a computer in your house because it was too big. Right. But that's not why people were getting a computer. So again, you run into those people that, like, you think are so smart. They've had all this experience, but they may be looking at the picture a little bit differently.

Can we just geek out a little bit? Author to author. So question number one is, did you consider calling the book Sweetie? Because I think it would be an amazing title.

Yeah, I did. I did consider calling it Sweetie, but actually, you know, it was interesting. It was definitely in, like, the top 10. But I. You know, it's funny, I've sort of shied away from the sweetie conversation a bit. Not the conversation, but in terms of labeling. One thing is, is that I. I had a situation a few years ago where we were talking about that story and some of our advertising on Facebook and the algorithm kicked us out of being able to serve up an ad that said she's an, an executive once called her sweetie, and that's what started her during the company. And so again, it was like the algorithm kicked us out because they said, your product isn't sweet. And I was like, but that's the point. Like, that's the whole point of it.

No, stop the press. Stop the president. So you're telling me that the Facebook algorithm kicked you out because something wasn't true?

It was, yeah.

And it was, somebody tell Donald Trump this.

It was a crazy craz story. And, and eventually it sort of worked itself out, but it was a, it was a very stressful situation internally. And I remember I was at this conference at the lobby conference and I, and I brought it up and there were some nice Facebook executives there and, and I was telling them this and they were like, yeah, we've got this algorithm and stuff that does this. And I'm like, just insert a person in there and fix it. Because that's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to tell the story. And all these people were just cracking up around the Valley. They're just like, I mean, come on. So they eventually fixed it. But. But I think there was some of, There were some of that. And.

Okay, anyway, but a couple more author to author questions. So why is the U lowercase in the title?

Well, that's a good question and one you brought up early on, I think, because hint, as our brand name has always had that lowercase and it also has a period on the end.

I was going to ask you that next.

Yeah, it's. And I think as my, as my husband has said, you're actually a pretty decent writer, but you often speak in two or three. Two or three words per sentence maximum. You'll talk a lot, but you'll actually. It's the way you speak about stuff. And it. And so when we actually were looking at the title, that was actually. My husband joked about it, put the period on the end because it's like, that's what. When you are describing people, you'll say, curious, undaunted. And so I sort of thought it was like, kind of interesting and kind of fun. And so we said, ah, what the heck, let's. Let's go with it. But it was an interesting conversation internally. And there were people that had all kinds of opinions about it. I think as, as Steve Job used to say, and I'm paraphrasing this, you'll get a lot of opinions, but at the end of the day you gotta just go with what you ultimately think is, is the right thing to do. So far it hasn't, thankfully, knock on wood, affected sales and, and we're in the pre sales mode. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of questions that go on when you're an author. It's. It's sort of like having a child. You think you got it all figured out. You go take all the classes, you know, and. And then all of a sudden the baby comes and, and you're like trying to figure out how to change diaper, right? You've done lots of like, I don't want like rocket poop or anything like that happening and I gotta figure this stuff out.

And you ask other all. If you ask five authors for their advice, you'll get eight different answers.

It's such a crazy, a crazy world out there. But you've been actually super helpful and obviously has. Has really paved the way for authors the way that you've done things. And I mean that sincerely. I really watched you for years and just think that you're one of the brightest.

Well, thank you. I want to tell you I violated your copyright maybe because you obviously sent me a PDF and I printed it and I read it and I liked it so much. I advise a company called Merge4 which also has a female CEO and they make the coolest socks. So they make the hint of socks. And I liked it so much that I gave her the manuscript after I took my notes, because I think she needs to read this right away. It's such a.

And what did she say?

I was. No, I just gave it, I just gave it to her today. So I owe you, you know, four bucks in royalty or that's.

I'm good. I'm. I'm totally good. But yeah, it's interesting. You're not the first person who has, has shared with me that there's. There's a handful of VCs that have actually not even VCs that have invested in us, but just people I know that have said this is a story that my team should, that I'm investing in, should really read this book. So I, I mean I think it's, it's great. And I think somebody asked me, is this book just for female entrepreneurs? And I'm like, like not, not even slightly. And I said, ask Guy. He guys said to me when he read the book and was giving me a blurb, he said, who in the world would want to be an entre after they read this book? And I was like, I'm still smiling and standing. I'm just telling the story. And he was like, I know, it was great. But anyway, now that we've got through.

The minutiae of author to author, can you tell the audience what it means to be undaunted?

Yeah. So the. The book is called Undaunted Overcoming Doubts and Doubters, and really stemmed from when I would meet people and everybody from. I would be out speaking and people would raise their hand and ask questions or entrepreneurs or just people along the way. They'd say, understand that I'm different than you. I have fears, I have doubts. You're very confident. You never make mistakes. You never. You don't have any fears. And I would always kind of get stuck on the fact that they really thought we were that different. Right. And that they thought that they had all these roadblocks and I didn't. Or that I didn't have failures along the way or I didn't have doubts. And so a few years ago, I started articulating that I've met a lot of really incredible people that are leaders, are top athletes, are incredible people, entrepreneurs and not entrepreneurs. And they all have doubts, they all have doubters, and they all have fears and failures. And the difference is first that they try and how they get themselves out of those situations and enjoy the journey along the way. And so I thought, I've had so many of these stories that people will kind of chuckle. The sweetie story, my first job at Time magazine, that wanting to work at Fortune, and basically just thought, well, I don't know, Time's in the building, so like, I'll just take a job there and eventually I'll get to Fortune. Never did, but people would sort of chuckle along the way. And I thought, I'm okay with it not working out. I always want it to work out. But if it doesn't work out, then I realize that that's actually going to help me the next time for it to be able to work out. You know, I started writing. I was on too many airplanes over the last few years, last four years, actually, I was writing. And I just thought these stories actually could really help people and hopefully inspire people to just go and do so. That. That's it.

I think that one of the most impressive stories of being undaunted in the book is how when you were graduating from ASU, you got 90 job interviews. So every college student listening to this right now is wondering how the hell did she get? 90 interviews? So I want you to tell that and explain the art of getting job interviews.

It all started I was actually waitressing when I was in college and at this great little restaurant at the Teepee. Have you been to the Teepee?

No, but I read your book.

Yeah, you gotta. You've gotta go to the Teepee. Seriously. If you like Mexican food. In fact, I crave it just being up in Northern California. The best Mexican is still in Arizona, I think. But anyway, I worked there and 100-year-old institution and this guy used to come in the Teepee a lot. And finally I just said, like, what do you do for a living? People are always asking me. They knew I was a college student. And I said, oh, I'm going to college, I'm graduating. He works at Anheuser Busch. And he told me, I said, so what do you do for Anheuser Busch? And he said, I basically go on shoots. And in Arizona there's lots of shoots. And so we end up come out here and make sure that product placement is correct on these movie sets. I'm like, that sounds like a pretty good job. And. Right. And he said, you should come to Los Angeles and if you come out to Los Angeles, I'll get you an interview. He didn't promise me a job. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. So then when I'm going to la, I thought, well, I'm going to go and find some other people out there that are going to interview me too, just to justify me flying out there. And as I started telling people the story, and I would also tell not only customers that were at the Teepee that I had met, but also parents, anyone who would talk to me about it. I'd be like, hey, do you know anybody? I really want to go to San Francisco. I really want to go to Chicago. And they're like, oh, you know who I should introduce you to? People want to help if you actually tell them what you want to do. We used to have travel agencies. And so I went to a local travel agency and I said, okay, in a month from now, I want to go from Phoenix to la, to San Francisco, Chicago, Boston and New York and then back to Phoenix. What's it going to cost me? And they said, it will be. They said, we'll call you. They called me the next day and they said, It'll be $472. And I said, I think maybe you misheard me. And they said, no. And they gave me the itinerary and I was afraid that they were, they basically had hit some wrong key in the system. So I said, here's my Visa card. I hoped I had enough left on my Visa card and it didn't bounce or something and, and, or to get declined. And so off I went. And along the way, as I kept telling the story, I mean, guy, you would have been, I think you would have been that guy. Like, I was in the interview and I would. And they were like, oh, where are you going to next? And I'd say, oh, I'm going to San Francisco. I'm going to Chicago. And they said, wait a minute, you're like setting up all of these interviews. So when I started, I think I had about probably half of that set up. And then as I went along and telling the story, they're like, oh, when you go to Chicago, you should interview with my friend at the, at McKinsey. And I'm like, what is McKinsey? And then I would go and into McKinsey. And then, I mean, and it was so. It was this great education for a month. And I've told the story on college campuses all the time. In fact, as you said, I went to Arizona State University, the somewhat famous Arizona State University. And President Crow, who runs the institution, who's amazing and genius, he said to me, so did we get you that first job at time? And I said, said, no, I did not use your. This is, this is not where it happened. I mean, I, I love my experience there, but that is not where it happened. I, I did this process where I just went out and figured it out. And he said, but that's what you learn to do at asu. And I said, maybe, maybe I, I could argue that we'll. Right before, right in the beginning, I should say, of COVID I was at a high school, My son was graduating from high school, and I was at a graduation party and I overheard some parents say where they were talking, chatting about how terrible was for all of these students graduating from college and they're not going to be able to get jobs. And I couldn't help myself. I walked over to them, of course, six feet away from them, and I said, and I said, don't, don't tell your kids that they can't get jobs. Actually, that's, that's the wrong thing to do. And this gentleman said to me, he said, why do you say that? And I told him the story and I said, the reality is, is that the entry level positions, they're out there because people need entry level and it's actually a better time to go find a job because everybody thinks that you can't find a job right now. Go out and find a job. Right? And so anyway I think that's such a key story and hopefully it'll inspire people to just go out and find it right. And find what they're passionate about. The education too that I got guy in terms of I didn't know what a consulting company was getting out of college. I didn't even know what product plan placement was. I didn't know what any of this stuff was and I thought it was super like I just really enjoyed it and I, and people want to help.

So that's a, that is a great story. So I, I have a theory that great companies are born not because of some McKinsey Esque market research, reliance upon data analytics and stuff like that, but great companies are born because the founder or co founders make the product that they want to use. And I would attribute that to Apple, Yahoo, Google and hint. So correct me if I'm wrong, is the genesis of Hint basically because you wanted Hint?

Well, I think I saw the problem, right. And it was definitely I love running into people who I met in that first year who told me this is never going to happen because they couldn't see what I saw, which was that these diet sweeteners were ultimately not helping me get as healthy as I wanted to be. And I was really early. People say to me like you're a 15 year old company, like the founder is still here and by the way still the CEO of the company. That, that's really unusual and I think there's a lot of things in there including the fact that we were patient for the consumer to catch up to where I was at. We continued every single year to build and find these audiences but we weren't running to the audiences and forcing them. We had distribution opportunities with like Walmart for example, early on that we passed on and people said you're crazy, you're passing on Walmart and we're in Walmart today and we do super, super. But I didn't believe that any brands that I could think of were actually built in a Walmart. I wasn't sort of throwing darts at Walmart, I was just saying I couldn't think of any. And I still believe that today that being understanding when you're new, when you're the, when you are the dreamer and the visioner and you are so far ahead of so many other people, I think that you have to be very Careful. To actually build up not only your brand, I guess consumers need to discover it. And when you force feed them and say, okay, we've now entered into here and you need to take it, they don't see it, they don't get it. And so you have to wait for them to some extent and show them why they ultimately need it. And I think that, think also that's, that's another piece of this, why we tell my story so often that I think it's, it's very, you know, relatable to so many people. I mean, I'll never forget early on, we were on a segment of cnbc, how I made my millions, which is more like how I spent my millions. And I ran into this woman out by the pool in, in Georgia. We were at a hotel for spring break in, in Georgia. And she walked up to me because she saw the hint bottles. Excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt you. Do you, do you know where I could find that water? And I said, oh, I got it down the street at the store, Harris Teeter. And she said, you know, I've been dying to try that water. I saw this woman, of course, was me on how I made my millions. And do you know that she thought this drink up because she had this problem with diet soda? And I said, you're kidding. Tell me the rest of the story. So of course my daughter like, jumps in the pool because she thought, oh, oh my God, what is she, what is this crazy mom doing? So she jumps in the pool. And then the lady said, yeah, she thought this up. She had a huge problem with diet soda. And she took it into Whole Foods. And like, she went on and on. And what I thought was so funny because she said, that is just like me. I need to, I need to do that. And I said, you need to do what? And she said, I need to develop these products and ideas based on all the things that I think I should change in my life. And I said, you should do that. And she said. And so my daughter came back and she said, did you tell her yet that, that you're at hint? And I said, no, I didn't tell her yet. And she said, oh, you work for that lady? What's she like? I said, this is crazy. And, and I said, I, I am, I'm, I'm. The lady said, you're kidding. Oh, my God. I, I didn't even know this, this is crazy. Like, I, I, I just can't even wait to try your product. So anyway, the point is, I Think more and more people start to tell their stories around a brand. But you know, there used to be kind of this taboo, like, oh, you don't tell your story why you ultimately did it. And I think that that is where you're able to really get equity for your brand when you actually get people to associate it.

I think you confirmed my point that no, hint was not created because you had read some market research that natural flavored water was a big industry.

You, you may.

Because you were addicted to Diet Coke, right?

Totally. And also customers. I mean, I think so much like, you know, along the way people have said, oh, do you do a lot of research around flavors and customers and true story. I used to live in San Francisco and I lived right across the street from this private boys school that I, my kids did not go to. But I knew many of the parents who came into the lineup to drop off their son. So when I was in my garage with the first, you know, few months of hint, first year actually of hint, I would know that the lineup was happening at 8:30 in the morning. And so I literally would run over to these parents and I'd say, I just developed this water. I have in a bag, like 12 bottles. I said, would you mind? So it's funny because I run into those people today and they tell the story. They're like, I was part of the original focus groups and people think, oh, did she like, did a market research? I said, no. I knocked on her window and I said, hey, would you mind trying this water? But again, how many times have people like, they're invested in the brand that way? Right? How many times have they told that story? And anyway, I. No, did not intend it to be that way. But it's. That's true story.

So basically you're talking about evangelism. I just want you to.

Yeah, yeah.

Speaking as the person who may be one of the most qualified people in the world to tell you about secular 100.

Yeah, that's why we like each other. We speak the same language. Guy.

There any food entrepreneurs listening to this? You've got to tell the story of how you got into Whole Foods. Because my interpretation, I know some. A woman who founded a company called Sweet Lauren's and she has the best cookie dough. And it's everyone's fantasy to get into Whole Foods. So how did you get into Whole Foods?

Yeah, so I had been doing kind of my own little market research, basically convincing myself, again, I came from tech, I didn't come from the food or beverage industry. And so I had the same question that so many others did. How do you get into Whole Foods? But I was a consumer. I was just shopping there. And so I had really changed my life for the that past year and. And had eliminated my need for diet soda. So I'm shopping at Whole Foods in San Francisco on California and Franklin, and see this guy stocking the shelves. And, you know, I said, hey, could you point me to a water that just has fruit in it? And I remember him pointing me to. Pointing me to vitamin water. And I had seen vitamin water on the shelf, and I flipped it around and shared with him that vitamin water actually wasn't like what I was talking about because it had more calories than a can of Coke. And he was like, oh, you're kidding. That's why I've been gaining so much weight. I had no idea, like, it was so bad. And so then I would shop there over the next couple weeks, and he literally would run around the store with me because he felt like I was educating him on the beverage industry. And he would tell all his buddies that were working at Whole Food, Whole Foods, and I. I was, gosh, that's like, so interesting. Like, I knew nothing about the beverage industry. And I'm like, whole Foods is like the Mecca of health, and I'm telling this person that works there. It was just nutty to me. And so that was really when I decided, maybe there is a product opportunity here and maybe I should try it. But I didn't. I had worked in these. These big companies, and some of them were small and then got big like aol. But I thought, I don't even know if this is a company. I think it's just three SKUs. Let's just throw them up on the shelf and see what happens until I figure out exactly what I'm going to do next. And so that was when I recognized that I was pregnant with my fourth child. Shortly after I had made this decision that I wrote the business plan and I was going to get it off the shelf. So my timeline, again, hadn't worked in these big food companies. I thought, thought, six months is enough time to kind of figure this out, and then I'll have a baby and maybe take some time off with my fourth and see what happens. And so, of course, there's delays in the product coming out. I had done it in my some in my kitchen and then had gone to this bottling plant that I found out in Chicago, and it was a little delayed. It ended up showing up the day before my Plan C section. And. And so it's in my garage taking up space for my car. And I thought, thought, okay, I'm going in for my Plan C section. I've got a babysitter with my three kids. I wake up on May 27, 2005, and my husband says, so what do you want to do? We don't have to be at the hospital till 2 o'.

Clock.

And I said, let's go to Whole Foods and see, I'm going to talk to that guy who's stocking the shelves and let's see if we can get him to put it on the shelf. And he said, I was thinking like a walk or maybe brunch or something. Not really like doing that. And I said, we got to get the stuff out of the garage. We gotta do this. So he went with me. He said, you're not carrying cases. And I said, okay, great. So we get to the store and I see the guy and I said, do you remember me? And he said, you are so pregnant. And I said, I am. And he said, wow, I didn't realize you were this pregnant. And I said, yeah, no, I'm. I'm super pregnant. And he said, so when are you having a baby? And I said, this afternoon at 2. And that is why I'm here, because I would love for you to put it on the shelf. And he said, wait, what? Wait, what? How do you know that you're having a baby at 2 o'?

Clock?

And I said, oh, I'm having a planned C section. He said, what's a plan C section? And I said, okay. So at this point, my husband, by the way, is backing up into the fruits and vegetable section. He was like, she is about to tell him what a planned C section is. I cannot even believe this. And I said, so there's vaginal delivery and there's plan C sections, or there's C sections and then there's planned C sections. When you've had too many C sections, then they just schedule you. It's like going to the Ritz Carlton. It's all great. And he said, oh, well, this is really, really educational. You're always educating me when I'm here. And this is like, amazing. Thank you so much. And I was like, okay, so getting back to the cases. Can we actually get them on the shelf? And my husband's somewhere around here. I don't know. He disappeared for a minute. He'll be back in a minute with the cases. But be amazing, and then I can go have my baby and not be worried about it. And he said, I'll do my best. I don't. I don't know if I can get it on there or not. So we didn't know, leaving the store, whether or not he was going to be able to get it on the shelf. We left 10 cases with him. The next day, he called in the hospital, and my son Justin was. Was born healthy. Everything was great. And my husband picked up the phone. Nobody calls you, by the way, when you have a fourth child. All your friends, your family, everybody's like, oh, she'll be gone for a few weeks. We'll leave her alone. So my phone r rings. I'm so excited. And I'm like, oh, my God, someone's checking in on me. It's the guy from Whole Foods. And he's. He said, hey, the cases are gone. And I said, who took them? And he said, no, they're. They're sold. You have 10 cases. They're. I mean, this is crazy. And I was like, wait, what? People bought the cases that quickly? I mean, this is crazy. And so that was the beginning of hint. And they sold 10 cases overnight. And we checked out of the hospital early because I had to go refill my space on the shelf. And that was when my husband joined me as well, because he said, you can't drive. You've just had a C section. I'll go deliver them. And by the way, I stopped by FedEx Kinkos to get some business cards. And I'm now the chief operating officer. And he had been a Silicon Valley. He was at Netscape. He was a. Their first intellectual property lawyer. And he put that on his card, just says, see what happens. And he's still there today, 15. Fifteen years later, the chief operating officer. And a much better one than was even back then. He did more than carry cases today.

That's a very good segue for another topic, which is how did you make co founding and operating a company with your spouse work?

Yeah, you know, I think we always had different skill sets, and. And we both really recognize that. I mean, we're very. We're just. People who know us well know that we're just very different people. But people always say to me, you know, that you wanted to work with your husband. No, like he was helping me. And I think now I look at it in a little bit different way in that we have two things that are so important to us. One, our family. Right. And the company. And I think it's almost more complicated. And again, it's not for Everybody. But it's almost more complicated when you think about it. When I see two founders who maybe met each other in business school and they're starting a company, I get really nervous that they're going to decide. One's going to decide to have her family sooner than the other. There's different sort of life decisions. All of a sudden you have a lot more decisions. For us, it's been great. We have four teenagers. It's been great raising kids. And also kids seeing that we're. That we do things a little bit differently. We do things that we feel passionate about that have purpose. And also, as my son said to a few years back, well, two things. He said, mom, why is it that women aren't CEOs? And I thought, here we go. Am I really going to have to do this with my son? And I said, his name's Keenan. And I said, keenan, I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. And he said, well, I play a lot of tennis. And you know what I was thinking about is why is it that we have female teams and we have male teams? Because there's women that I actually want to play with and because they're great athletes. And he said, so I don't really understand this, but I think that what you're doing is actually showing me that it's possible. And I said, so I was like, that's amazing. Again, it's not for everybody, but I do think it. It's. If you have different skill sets, it could actually be easier. Year.

How in the world did you build, hint and raise four kids at the same time?

I didn't just raise my kids, but also my husband, right. Like, he's very active in helping on. In both building a company and also building a family. I don't think it's just about raising them. I think it's also they watch and they listen. And I had a. A teacher say to me a few years ago that your kids know more about things like preferred stock. Right. Or like, things that are. They see you going up against the big guy. I mean, they also see me doing things that I'm not supposed to do. And, and it's not in. In the book where, like, I have a huge initiative right now going on in Washington around clean water. Water. And you know, and people have said, like it. And it's my passion project. I've learned a lot about water over the last 15 years. And we're hoping. Actually I'm working on it with Congresswoman Jackie Spear to Actually bring something before Congress like the fact that I, I'm not a lobbyist, I don't have any experience doing this. I do have experience in this industry and sort of understanding bad things that are in our tap water supply, including pfas and some of the other things that are out there. So again, they, they see the stuff that I'm doing as she didn't have any experience why, but yet she's making progress along the way. And, and I think that that's. You know, I was in another interview yesterday and I was talking about this. I mean, I think we all wish for our kids to have passion and get up every single morning and do something that they really want to do and happiness, you know, drives into that as well. But that I think is the most important thing that I see in, in being able to do a. Do a hard thing, do a startup, but also something that they see. I love what I'm doing.

I suspect respect. I know the answer to this question, but were you a Tiger mom?

I think at times. But I'm also a kid where I was last of five kids and my dad had started a brand inside of a larger company, ConAgra, actually originally Armour Food Company and his brand was called Healthy Choice. And, and my parents didn't have me until they were 40, which back then was really old. And so I always joke that they didn't really have any energy. They, before I walked out the door, they said, don't do anything, don't get in trouble and just be careful. And that's what they would say. Like I was very much latchkey kid or whatever running out the door. But I think they also would really instill in me, go figure it out. And I think that that's what I am constantly saying to my kids, get as far as you can go. You know, there's been times where I've jumped in and I think I'm usually right when, when I end up, because I don't do it often, but I. But I do feel like my daughter, who's now in college, is an incredible debater. And I always go back to this because she didn't make the team initially. There was a team in San Francisco, a private thing that she was always a really good writer early on and I thought she's, she really should start to do more of this debating. And they didn't allow her into the program. And I thought, like, what are you guys missing? And I said, I went back and I said, I don't do this very often, but you Guys should really take a closer look at her. She may not have interviewed. She's in third grade. Like, she may not have interviewed. Like, but just give her a.

Third grade has a right.

I know it was. It was insane. And. But then, I mean, she went on and now what's hysterical to me is she's off at. At college and she's actually teaching the class by Zoom to these kids. And I always remind her, and she won all kinds of awards. Always won the awards in. In high school and everything. And I said, do they really. Do they remember when they said no to you, like the first time, like, always remind them. And she was like, I know. Like, I kind of. I always tell the kids, like, along the way. And so. So again, you can't do it every single day, but I think you can jump in. And also, I'm an entrepreneur. I spend a lot of time. And as you said in the book, like, there. There's many hours. Being an entrepreneur sounds like great, super sexy. Like, you know, it's like the thing to. To do, but it's. There's way easier ways to make money and spend and less time along the way.

Along the way. Did you ever feel that being a woman really held you back or really was a problem raising money?

So I've always said that I've never been a man, so I don't know. And, And I mean that. Like, I. Look, I hate. We just raised money. We just closed around a couple of months ago in the middle of COVID for 25 million. And everybody said, you can't do it by Zoom. And we. I just said, well, we have great need it for. For growing, so why not? But I think if you set your mind to anything, you can ultimately do it. And that is. That is really the mindset. I don't allow that wall to. To get up in front of me. Do I think it's harder? Like, is my gut saying that it's harder to raise money as a woman? Probably at the end of the day, I hate raising money. To me, it's like begging for, like, it really, like, it is not a fun process in nowhere along the way, even if you're the nicest people that you're dealing with, it's just. I don't love it. And so I think that that's the key thing, that if you allow yourself to really have these things in front of you that block you from doing what you ultimately want to do, then I mean that I think you need to smash that. That down and work that one out before you can actually come to a conclusion that you're not going to be able to do it because of your gender.

I found it very interesting that in the latter part of your book, you talk about sunblocks and deodorants. And I want you to explain the concept of diversification, which is what you did, versus focus and putting all the eggs in one basket and guarding that basket very well, because those are two opposing theories.

Yeah. So we really started did our first branch out of water into sunscreen. I did it when had skin cancer on my nose. And I was looking for a sunscreen that actually I wanted to wear. And what I found was that all the sunscreens that were out there were either too white, they used a lot of zinc, or they, you know, didn't. They were unscented, and they sort of smelled not so great. And I thought, I need something that really I want to embrace. I believe smell is something that gets you excited about a product that makes it stick to sticky. Right? Not sticky in terms of feel, but sticky in terms of you wanting to actually touch it and feel it. And so I used hint as a placeholder when we had to apply for the FDA certification. And. And then we got it, and we just decided, I don't know if people will like the sunscreen or not. I like it a lot. I had been making it at home for myself and for my friends, and. And so we just, like, threw it out there. And then all of a sudden, everybody in the soda industry is getting all upset. We KN was doing. And now she's like, off, like, making. And I said, listen, I've said it from day one. I did not view this as a. As a beverage company. I viewed it as a way to help people get healthy. And so that ended up getting us thinking, what else is going on? My father, who my parents overall, but my father, who was very important to me, had Alzheimer's 10 years ago and passed away. And I started looking at Alzheimer's and looking at a aluminum and coming in contact with aluminum. And I thought, okay, I don't have to drink out of cans or use aluminum foil. But I didn't realize that I was getting aluminum every single day from antiperspirant. And I thought, okay, I do want to wear something. How do I do it? And I. There was nothing out there that I really wanted to wear. So that's when it started. We just launched hand sanitizers because this was another thing during COVID that I thought a lot of them smell ranch. So we just Launched. This is Clementine using our fruit from our drinks. And that's really the consistent thread across all of these products is that we're able to thread it. But also now that we really have four categories, I think it really speaks to consumers are saying, I get it now. I may not use her deodorant, but I mean people are obsessed with our sunscreen. I think they're going to be obsessed with this hand sanitizer. And again, I, I think the, the smell is really something across all categories that people that you want things to smell good.

Do you not have my address to send me to?

I will send it to you. It like literally hot off the press. So we are just, we are just getting it. So I will Guy for sure. I'll send you a whole pack of it.

Okay. I think you've truly perfected the art of branding. And so I'd like your.

You are saying like, I, I'm just like we should end the interview right there. I mean Guy Kawasaki is saying this to me. This is amazing.

I. I am not worthy. Oh, I am not.

Absolutely.

I want to hear how you built the hint brand and getting very specific. This audience has got to hear the story about being mentioned in the Hungry Girl blog versus Good Morning America. Because that is a great story. So two questions. Branding and Hungry Girl versus Good Morning America.

Yeah, I think that the branding, you know, really goes back to when we were doing this product and we're up against 2,000 beverages and that's how many competitors are out there in the beverage industry. You think you have a lot in tech, right? Like in different categories. The beverage industry is probably the most crowded industry out there. It's pretty nuts. And so people would look at the bottle and they'd say, what's it sweetened with? And I would say it's not sweet at all. And then I would share my story. Story about why I actually developed the product and you know, the company. And so people would. People kept reciting that story. I told you in Georgia. And I thought if that's the way that we can educate people by, by telling them their why. Right. Giving our purpose for launching it. I didn't launch it because I saw Vitamin Water on the shelf and I wanted to do a competitive product. That was not my goal. My goal was that this wasn't out there. And that's frankly how we've grown this product into being the largest non alcoholic beverage in. In the US that doesn't have a relationship with the big soda companies. We've done it In a way that, that really brings my why into and really think about the consumer. Today, 55% of our business is direct to consumer. We're still, you know, very much in a lot of stores and embrace that distribution. But I think that it's hard to stand out on the shelf. It's easier to do it through really touching with the consumer and kind of sharing exactly why they would want it. Who they are, are they like me? They are, right? Like many of them have kids, many of them are working parents, many of them just want to drink better tasting water. And that really leads into the, the crux of the Hungry Girl story versus Good Morning America. But early on, I mean we really really thought that Diane Sawyer, who was retired now, but at the time like we thought oh, she's, she loves our product. She's gonna just kill it and, and like really be able to speak to it. And when we were on this Hungry Girl, which I feel like that was kind of the beginning where I really saw that kind of communities and, and almost like them this back then. But these influencers, she could say to her community, you should really try this product. And they, they would, right? And I thought, wow, like it doesn't matter today if it's a giant brand that says it or a smaller brand that has a community and the stickiness of that community. It's really what is the relationship that that person has developed with their community. And I think it really spoke to, to you talked about, talked about market research. I think it's really speaks to kind of like why I've like looked at like audience numbers and you know, or, or impressions. Like I'm like, you know, I don't know. I think it just depends on how active people are and how much trust you have with your community. And that's really that story. So we sold lots more. The story was through the Hungry Girl site. It was at a time when it really was an aha moment. Me.

Because I read your book and I know you do this. I'm going to ask you this. What makes you unstoppable?

I think owning my, my failures, my insecurities and pushing through. And I think that I say the, the first part first because I think that it's easy to say, oh, I'm just going to push through. I'm just going to get up every morning and I'm going to do it. I think if you actually say to yourself, yourself, things are hard at times, but I got, but I'm gonna go do this and I'm gonna figure out a way to do it. That's ultimately what makes people unstoppable. And curiosity, I think, is a great aspect of it as well. If you're always trying to learn and always trying to add that on to do, I think that's an important aspect.

What? Did I not ask you that I should have asked you?

Wow, that's a, that's a good question. Do you still love what you're doing? And I think that the answer is yes. It also kind of leads into piece of advice where I feel like don't do it. Frustrates me when I see leaders not actually enjoying what they're doing because I don't think that you're helping yourself. I don't think that you're helping your family. If you have a family. I don't think you're helping your team either. And, and I think that that' such an important piece that if you're enjoying yourself, then I think that your passion and ultimately your stickiness. Right. Not only for your team but also for your consumers will show through.

I hope you enjoyed this episode with Kara golden and learned what it takes to make a cold call. Get your products into Whole Foods stock shelves on the day of your C section section and in general, act undaunted. Look for her book Undaunted because it'll be out soon. Or better yet, just pre order it now. It's a valuable read for any entrepreneur and female entrepreneurs in particular. My thanks to Kai Lim of Hint for helping me make this podcast possible. My thanks to Jeff C. And Pig Fitzpatrick for making this podcast sweet. I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. Be sure to wash your hands or use hand sanitizers. Maintain a large social distance. Wear a mask, and for your sake and mine, listen to Dr. Tony Fauci.

This episode of Remarkable People is brought to you by Remarkable, the Paper Tablet Company.

This is Remarkable People.