Kerri Walsh Jennings: What's It Take to Be a GOAT

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Foreign.

I'm Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People. We're on a mission to make you remarkable. Helping me in this episode is the remarkable Kerri Walsh Jennings. She is one of the goats Greatest of all time in women's volleyball. This description opens up an existential question. Greatest implies the one and only. But in my humble opinion, there can be multiple greatests. But I digress. Carrie is a five time Olympian and three time gold medalist. She holds the record for tournament victories both domestically and internationally. Together with her partner Misty May Trainor, who is another goat, she has won 21 consecutive Olympic matches and they only lost one set during their 11 year run. Kerry graduated from Stanford with a degree in American Studies. She was the second player in NCAA history to be named first team All American in all four seasons. In the next hour we are going to cover the right reasons to participate in youth sports. How to channel doubt into action. Yes, Kerry Walsh Jennings has doubts. I was surprised too what she thinks of athletes like Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka taking time off the sexualization or lack of sexualization of women's sports. And of course, what it takes to be a goat. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is Remarkable People. And now here is the remarkable Kerry Walsh Jennings. So we've had Ronnie Lott, Christy Yamaguchi, Brandi Chastain, and now Kerry Walsh Jennings. So we're moving down and getting them all.

I love it.

But we've also had people like Jane Goodall, Neil Degrasse Tyson, Steve Wozniak. So you're in good company.

Okay, I've been paying attention. You've had amazing guests. Your podcast is wonderful. So thank you for the service that you're providing. I'm always on the lookout for inspiration. And I feel like you do that so well. But with regard to the athletes that you've interviewed, I noticed a trend there. They're all Bay Area athletes. Right. And Brandi and I actually went to the same high school. We weren't there at the same time, but we went to the same high school.

Archbishop Mitty.

Yeah.

Funny you should mention her name, because last night I told her that I was interviewing you, and I said to Brandy, what should I ask her? And she told me to ask you how your life turned out differently from what you anticipated when you were at Archbishop Mitty.

That's hilarious. So Archbishop Mehdieza High School in San Jose. And I was never a very forward thinker, and I'm still kind of the same. I'm just kind of in the moment. My life keeps, like, unfolding in ways that make sense. So I think I expected to work for a beautiful, fulfilling life that would be full of sports and family and faith. And I guess without thinking about the specifics, when I was in high school, like, that's what I'm living right now. A full, beautiful life based on family and faith and sports.

So things went as planned.

I guess so. I guess it wasn't a plan. I guess it was a hope and a dream and a co creating with God. But yes, I would say so. You know, I think that you get what you expect in life because your expectations dictate your energy, your optimism, your pursuit, your resiliency. I've always had high expectations. My parents always had high expectations. And I think that just is kind of some momentum that's carried me through.

Now I need to ask you a volleyball question. Yes, this may be the only volleyball question. I want to know how you feel about the let serve.

Ah, it drives me nuts. I just think it's so ridiculous. Rule changes in general are really hard. Change is hard in life. But when you're used to a rule and then it changes, and it changes in a way that dumbs down the game. I'm not a fan, so for me, it just dumbs down the game. But it is what it is, so there's opportunity there.

So could you explain how it dumbs down the game for people who are not familiar with volleyball?

Well, so before they change the rule, we. When you would serve the ball, if it hit the net, it was an error and the other team would get the chance to serve. But now if it hits the net and goes over to the opponent's side of the court, it's playable. And usually when a let A serve hits the net, it's a point. It's almost a guaranteed point if it goes over the net. So to me, it's like initially I was like, that's just. You're rewarding bad skill. You're rewarding a luck, you know, a chance of luck. But now, since it's been the rule for so long now, people are training, serving like a millimeter net for those chances that it'll go over and get the point again. There's opportunity in everything, but I don't know, I'm kind of a traditionalist. I like things pure and clean and the net just gets in the way.

Let's go back to your upbringing here in California and how did you begin to play sports? What was the beginning?

Oh, man. Well, the beginning was I was born into a family of insane competitors. Like, insane. I can't even begin to tell you. So you're in Santa Cruz. So I grew up in Scotts Val, California, which is right down the road from you, which is nestled in the redwoods. My mother is one of eight, my father is one of four. All of their siblings are very good athletes. Their parents are very good athletes. I assume my parents great grandparents were athletes. Like, I don't know my lineage. I should. So I was born into competition and people who loved sports with all their hearts. I was born in the Bay Area, which means that you were surrounded by greatness with the Niners and the Giants and the Warriors. I grew up in the 80s and so the Niners in the 80s. You know, I know you had Ronnie a lot on this podcast. Like there was no better team maybe in history of NFL than those guys and legacy they made. And so I was in this environment where sports were important and sports were really fun and joyful and also brought out the beast in you. And my parents modeled that for me like every weekend. I can't remember the park, but it's. It's when you go down Granite Creek Road before you get to the mystery spot. Like it's not De La Viega, but there's like a park over there. And they would play the most intense high level co softball. And they never lost, guy. They never lost. And they were just so intense. And I loved watching them compete. And so anyhow, I watched them growing up. They played until I was in my teens. And then I started playing, you know, normal T ball. And then in fifth grade, I found volleyball. That changed my life.

And when you started volleyball, did you just focus on volleyball from then?

Goodness, no. And I wouldn't have wanted to. Volleyball is. It's a fall sport and I just loved it so much. But I loved playing basketball. I loved playing baseball. I played baseball until I was in the eighth grade with my brother. I played basketball all throughout high school, and we were kind of one of those families where whatever was in season, we were playing. And that was really fun for me. I started playing club when I was 10 years old, which is normal these days. But it wasn't intense. It got intense in high school, whereas now it's just kind of a bummer of the way things are. People are picking one sport starting when they're 10, you know, and to me it's just such a disservice. There's a book called Range that talks about just the benefits of trying multiple sports and just the qualities and the skills and the capabilities it gives you. And I feel like I'm a product of that. I played everything growing up and I was able to play with my brother and his friends who are bigger, stronger, and who treated me like one of them. So I feel like that helped me as well.

Brandi said much the same thing that she did all kinds of sports growing up.

Yeah, it makes sense. First of all, I wish I would have played soccer longer because I feel like if you could play soccer, you can do anything because that footwork is so important. But yeah, I listened to a lot of coaching podcasts or interviews and talking to the top athletes. And so many of them who have long, successful careers were multi sport athletes for as long as possible. And at some point they had to pick. But like Tom Brady, another Bay Area guy, obviously you need him. On his podcast, he was recruited more heavily for baseball and he chose football. And it's just really worth thinking about, big picture, when you're raising children in sports today, because we all want the short term to be comfortable and to feel like we're on the right path, but sometimes you have to step back and be like, in 10 years, do I want my child to have a diverse range of capabilities or do I want them to be super specialized?

And in this sports career that you've had, what kind of barriers have you faced?

You're looking at her. Just me. I have been so fortunate. Title IX passed before I was born, and again, my aunt is in the Pepperdine hall of Fame for basketball. Like, I had these pioneers before me who just showed me the way and every door has been open. And so I haven't had too many barriers. My only barriers are just my own self doubt, my own insecurities Obviously in my sport there's not a lot of money and so my goal is to like take us to the next level so the pro athletes can actually be pros and make a living. But to me, it's just so much more than just the money or the sport itself. You know, it's about the lifestyle, it's about the person I'm becoming while competing. And so anyhow, the barriers are my own and I want to master myself and I feel like if I can master myself and live in the highest sense of myself, then things get easier. But I like to get in my own way a lot.

And. And you don't feel like the media covers men's sports much too much and all these men are making decisions about how much to pay women and there's lack of equality and compensation. You don't see that as a barrier or barriers?

You know, I never want to say you have too much take away and give me more. Like, I just, I don't believe in that. You know, I think the men have the right amount of media coverage. I think that that demand is there. I think women deserve more and I think we shouldn't wait for someone to realize that and I think we should do it on our own. You know, there's a lot of amazing startups coming out, just women sports to name on her turf, to name two that are stepping up to fill the void with women in sports. And there are the early stages. So I think, you know, coming on your podcast and talking about that, I think that's important because we need to drive awareness and education of where we can see women's sports, you know, and then the compensation thing, I know we're trending in the right direction, but again, I just have a tough time saying you have too much. Like, I really believe in abundance, I really believe in the value of women's sports. I believe one thing we've gotten wrong is that we've compared ourselves to the men where we are inherently different beasts and there's beautiful parts of our game that can't even touch the guys game and vice versa. And so I think we just need to start celebrating what each of us are and we'll attract the sponsors, the market will realize that we are an asset that they should invest in and we can grow together. I know we're on that track, but I know we all want it right now as well. Our time is here and we just have to keep creating, keep partnering and being strategic and how we show ourselves. We can't settle. That's for sure.

Man, you are the most positive guest we've had on remarkable people.

Well, that's saying something.

That is saying something. I've had a lot of positive guess.

Well, if you're. If you're excellent, I think you're positive.

What are your hindsights on the impact of Title nine?

It's such a beautiful piece of legislation that changed generations of lives. You know, like it has to start somewhere. And for the Nixon administration to take that initiative because they're hated for many reasons, but in learning about Title IX, and we're celebrating 50 years learning that President Nixon's wife was a huge proponent of women's sports and women's equality and education. And they took that and they just were not going to be stopped. And they got a team together and they passed this legislation. And this one piece of legislation opened up the doors of opportunity for all these young women, professionals and young ladies, teens just growing up, giving them opportunities. It just opens up people's worlds. And when someone's world is open, their identity can shift and grow and become more. I think that it was just with lack of opportunity, you're just kept in a little box. And then once the opportunities open up, the world is yours. So I think Title IX was just that. It was the world opening up to young women that has changed the world in so many beautiful ways.

So some of the negative predictions about Title 9, mostly made by men, certainly did not come true. Right. It's not like all of a sudden college sports, all these great programs, programs for men, were cast aside because now you had to take care of women too. It's just. Yeah, it's been a rising tide for everyone, I think.

So, you know, I think that if there's any kind of knock on Title 9, but this doesn't need to come because of Title IX, but like the smaller niche sports for men, like volleyball, like wrestling, gymnastics, since they're not football or baseball or basketball, they tend to kind of get ignored. And if a school is struggling financially, those are the sports that get cut. And people always point to Title nine because it has to be equal. Right. And so since football takes up so much of the scholarship space, we need to include so many women's sports to make up that space to create equality. But again, I think things are how you frame it. Just because Title 9 exists and equality needs to exist does not mean that the niche sports for men can exist. They just need to come at it from a different angle. Maybe they need to fundraise more. Maybe they need to Go on their own instead of waiting for these institutions to be like, here, we're going to fund you. Go and take the initiative.

Our alumni. Stanford has this decision about men's sports, right? Like wrestling and volleyball. And I don't know if they blame Title 9, but Stanford, with his $60 billion endowment, can't have a wrestling program like Nutty. What am I missing Nutty?

Well, you know, interestingly so. Bernard is the ad, and he's incredible. And I just felt so much for him when all that was going on. And I called him and I was like, bernard, what's going on? This seems insane to me. These programs are vital to the culture and to the health of the school. And he said, kerry, what people don't realize is that our 60 million billion endowment, I don't know what the number is, does not even touch athletics. So the athletic endowment is completely different than the university endowment. And I was just like, well, if there was some awareness around that, I have no doubt that the sports boosters and the alumni associations for Stanford athletics would step up. But I have a lot of friends who pushed really hard, specifically on the men's volleyball team that pushed hard to get that overturned. And it worked out. So I think it was a beautiful thing because it rallied the community.

It really did. I know people who were on the Stanford wrestling team, one of whom rose to the top of social media, believe it or not. And I have to say, if you were a wrestler or volleyball player, you didn't do it for the money, like basketball or football, Right. So you had all the pressure, all the dedication, all the pain, all the suffering, all the sacrifice. And at the end you get a wrestling letter. So, you know, those people have grit. Those are the kind of people you want to have in your company.

Absolutely. I think inherently like all well, now with the change with nil and college athletes and get paid, maybe it's a little bit different. But I think just the honor of playing for your university was enough. Like, unless you play golf or tennis or you're top and NFL or mlb, you're not making a lot of money. You're really not. I was talking to my cousin who played soccer and golf at Stanford. She's incredible. Her name is Marcia, and now she's in the Web3NFT space. And she was telling me, she's like, carrie, unless you're the one of the top 30 golfers in the world, you're breaking even. Because golf is such an expensive, you know, you have to pay for your caddy, travel all these Things I was like, God, that's, that's crazy. Because the perception is you're made. If you're top 100, you're just, your life is made. And she's like, no, reality is a little bit different. So I think sports, we all play it for the love of it, truly. And then the money comes in and then you start comparing and it gets exhausting. But if we can keep it pure, I think it's a beautiful thing. But it's hard as you go because you need to make a living when you're blessed with this talent and you don't want to lose your purity, you don't want to play for an agenda, but you also want to push for more.

So I think it's still true that far more girls and women drop out of sports than men. So several questions around this. First, does it matter? Second, why do they drop out? And third, what can be done?

Well, let's go one at a time because I already forgot the last two. So I think, you know, it matters. It matters for sure. And I think it matters because I think we have to ask ourselves what is driving these kids to stop by the time they're 13? I think it's like an 80% dropout rate by the time you're 13 or 14. I'm not sure if it's a gender bias or not, but regardless, that's too many children dropping out of sports. And again, sports is not about being good at kicking or hitting. It's about developing yourself and working in the team concept and becoming great feeling progress and improvement in your life, which is more important than winning gold medals. Like the pursuit and the growth is most valuable. And so I think the problem is that sports used to be about playing and now it's about training and becoming perfect and training when you're 13 for that college scholarship that may or may not come in four years, you know, and that's exhausting. I think my life, anytime I've played for an end result, life has become miserable and stressful and it's just like I'm never in the present moment. And so I feel like we've just created these structures around youth sports that is not about living in the moment. It's not about development of character and of your all around skills. It's about being great at this one thing, performing when needed. And if you don't, then you're out. And that's, that's terrible. And it's expensive and it's constant. These kids have no breaks.

And what can we do to reduce the number of girls and women dropping out.

I think we gotta bring fun back into sports. I was talking to my trainer the other day and I was like, gosh, training has been so hard these days. She's like, carrie, stop calling it training. Say I'm going to play. I'm like, oh my God, that already helps. You know, like, like little things like that. I think how we frame it is so. So my daughter right now is playing AYSO soccer and then very early on club team soccer. And she much prefers AYSO because it's just a little bit more playful and her coach is really high level. So it's not like it's really dumbed down, but it's just they allow themselves to be a little bit more free. And so in my. And my husband right now, he's coaching the local high school team, volleyball. It's amazing. And these girls, they're not Olympians. It's not in their future. They're. But he is reminding them that you have greatness in you and you have the chance to improve and you matter. And so I just feel like if we can focus on those messages, then the athletes will want to be there. But if we focus on again, just winning and that's your competition, they're the devil. And pitting us against each other like that, that doesn't go far. Kids are here to play, to love everyone and to learn through experience. And I just think that the experience has become so, so convoluted and so just focused on the wrong thing that it's not fun anymore.

And why did it come to this?

I think probably money. Everything is pay to play. Everyone has to make a living. God bless. I wish everyone was as wealthy as they wanted to be. I just think that money drives these institutions. They need to stay relevant, they need to keep growing. And there's not a lot of people advocating for kids. They keep piling on and they make everything seem important. And if you miss this tournament or if you miss this clinic, like, your future is over. And I think we as parents and as adults need to see through that fearful programming and be like, no, your grandma's turning 80. This, you know, this weekend we go to that, we miss this game and you give your coach a heads up, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just feel like the culture has become just driven by the wrong things. By winning at all costs, by being perfect and by money and those things. They are all kind of driven by fear and lack. And I just think fear and lack are the opposite of what reality is. But you have to just know that you're resourceful and life is more than that.

My eldest son was a very good hockey player, so he participated in travel hockey and some of the other sort of attitudes towards even travel hockey was just insane. If you think about it. How many people really make a living playing professional hockey? I don't know, A thousand. And what's the probability? So a million kids are trying. A thousand are going to play in the NHL. Meanwhile, Google has a quarter million programmers making a quarter million dollars a year. Right. It's crazy.

It's crazy. But, you know, it's interesting because people keep pursuing it and they're willing to like, take on the stress and the anxiety because it's such a beautiful dream. And so if we can just marry the beauty and maybe the unrealistic vision of living that dream to reality and just make it a friendlier journey, people won't burn out. Burnout sucks. It's just too much. We have seasons in life for a reason. I was listening to a podcast with Tim Ferriss and Kevin Costner a couple years ago and it changed my life. Kevin Costner was like, look, I'm a man of seasons. I have my hunting season, I have my baseball season, I have my movie making season. And it was just like, you're right. Like, it can't be summer all year round. Things will burn up. You know, we won't renew and regenerate. And so kids need seasons and parents need to advocate for that. And if the institutions and structures that we're putting our kids into don't allow for that, the parents need to make a choice. And my hope is that the parents realize and maybe talk with their children. What kind of life do you want to live? Is this too much for you? Are you cool playing three months of the season, taking a little break and then joining again? These are all beautiful conversations to have.

Maybe I shouldn't tell you that I surf every day.

No, I love that I need to.

Have an off season from surfing maybe.

No, I don't think so. I don't think you need an off season if you're doing it for the right reasons and if it fills you up.

Well, I'm not doing it for money. That's what.

Yeah, well, you should call Kelly Slater and get a lesson. I think that's beautiful.

You know, it's that easy.

Yeah. Laird Hamilton is a friend and he's one of my biggest inspirations. And he doesn't compete. Yet he is known as maybe One of the greatest big wave surfer of all time. I'm not quite sure, but he's just legendary. And he chose to not compete because he did well. I don't want to mess up his words, but competing wasn't for him. He didn't like who it made him or how he responded to it or how he felt internally. And so he did his own thing. And so I think learning from people like that, and he just follows his curiosity and his potential, I think that's beautiful. We all don't need to be in the same system. I love that you surf every day. That's a meditation you're in Mother Nature. That's healing. You're not competing every day.

To continue the story with my son, he went to Australia and he played semi pro hockey there and he obviously never played in the NHL, but to this day he plays hockey several times a week and he loves it. And it's the purest form of hockey because at best, they're doing it for beer.

That's pretty good. I like that. I love hearing that. And that's the goal of youth sports, right? Is to get kids to fall in love with their bodies and expressing through their movement. And again, I think when you take out the play or you take out that priority, it just makes it about the technique instead of, look, I can jump. Look, I can run. This feels so good.

Can I ask you. So let's say there are kids or parents listening to this and they're saying, I want to be the greatest of all time. Just like. Like Kelly Slater or just like Kerry Walsh. Jennings, let's take it as a given that you are greatest of all time. All right? Just don't even debate that.

All right?

But now I want you to answer the question. What's it take to be at your level?

It takes a lot of love. You have to love what you're doing because you're gonna suffer for it. It's like any good marriage. You have to love them so much because you know there's gonna be ups and downs and trials and growth is packed painful for me. Love has been my greatest fuel, for sure. When things get hardest and darkest, when I always have that moment of wrecking, I look in my mirror, Carrie, do you want it bad enough? Yes. I love this. So that's what I come down to. Focus and clarity of your pursuit. For me, if I'm clear in my goal, I don't care how I get there. I'm just going to be relentless toward forward motion, toward my goal and consistency you know, the remarkable people in the world, in the world are consistent at a very high level. They show up on purpose. They don't take days off, they don't half ass things. They take meaningful days off to recharge and to regenerate and to get their spirit high again. But I guess they take nothing for granted. And so for me I'm a pretty confident person but I have very decent insecurities as well. My insecurities drive me, they don't minimize me anymore. Now where I lack, I see potential and that drives me more than anything. More than any fear, more than anything. So love and the potential within has really driven me. I think consistency is a huge part of being great.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of insecurity does Kerry Walsh Jennings possibly have?

How much time do we have?

I got a big hard disk here, I can go for hours.

Well, I'm not a fan of complaining or being a victim so I don't need to share too much but just normal stuff. Like I, I'm right now in a transition in my life and being in the middle of something is always the most uncomfortable because it's for me like once I know what I'm working with, I can handle anything. I just need to know what I'm aiming at and then I can hit it eventually. And so for me my insecurity is just the self doubt. Can I do it? Do I have what it takes? These types of things. Do my thoughts matter? Like for me I'm an athlete and for.

So wait, I'm having a little bit of an out of body experiences.

Oh please. Well what are your insecurities?

You have doubts about your abilities?

I do and they drive me and they drive me crazy but they also drive me to work hard. And ultimately when I sit with my doubts it's just pointing me on areas of my life where I'm neglecting. Right. And where I can develop more and where I probably need to spend more time. Because for me, if I'm prepared, if I feel like I've covered myself360 head to toe, I feel like I'm pretty unstoppable. Life being what it is, some things get in the way and sometimes you just focus too much on your strengths and then you get a little glimpse of a chink in your armor, then you're like oh God. And then that little thing can become this huge thing if you allow it. Yeah, I think self doubt is okay. I think it serves a purpose. I don't want to live there. I think the Same thing with fear. But anything born of fear just creates more fear. So I always want to live in, you know, my truth and just the optimism that I'm here. I'm a great learner, I love learning and I'm willing to put in the work. And that usually solves most problems.

Now, can you go very specifically and say, I'm now training for a Summer Olympics, what does that involve? Let's say you win a gold medal in the previous Olympics, so the next day you're back at training for four years later. I mean, how does it work, this work to be at your level?

Oh, man. Usually after the Olympics, you go on that media tour and you go hang out with amazing humans and you tell your story and you try to share the light that you just experience with the world. But generally, yeah, it starts right away. I remember after Beijing, Missy and I had repeated and I was just like, I want it, I want it again. Like, literally right after we win, after all those medals and all those Olympics, I'm like, I want it again. Like, it's an immediate thought. And then obviously, again, you need seasons. Like, you need an off season for sure. You need two weeks off period. Like after two weeks. Two weeks, right. Doesn't seem like much, maybe, but it's so fun to feel good in your body, you know, and to move and to be free and to be strong. And now the older I get, I feel like I took two weeks off. I might just freeze into stone. So I gotta keep things moving. But it takes everything. It takes every day. And again, every day doesn't mean you're running through walls every day. And every day is not the most intense sense, but it means you're being mindful every day. It means that every choice is leading you toward what you want or away from what you want. There's momentum in every thought, every action, everything you choose to do and don't do. And so I think it starts right away. The journey is a four year journey. It's a lifetime journey. But again, the expressions of you pursuing your best are different. Some days I'm meditating more and recovering and I'm napping. Some days I'm going after it. Three workouts a day with my trusted trainers. I'm eating on point consistently and I'm kicking ass. It's just different.

Let's take your most intense training day. Can you just give us a little from the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep, what happens on an intense day?

Okay, so we're gonna really dramaticize this, but this is real. So I would say my most intense day, okay? And this hasn't happened since before COVID I didn't make the last Olympics, so this was like a normal. I'd say Tuesday on a day before the training for the Olympics. So wake up probably around 4:30. I make my hot drink, I meditate, I journal those. To me, that's all part of my training, that's all part of my lifestyle. Because I want to be a high performer. I want sustained excellence. So my mind and my spirit are very important to me. So wake up at 4:30. I would have a training session at 6am with my coach, Eric Weldon. And I would work on creating space in my body so my body can move freely. And I would strengthen my pillars and my hips and my ankles and my neck and work on these things. I would have practice at eight. Practice is usually two, two and a half hours. Practice can be with just my partner and I and two coaches or practice can be my partner and I against another team or another couple teams. And we do live drills for about two and a half hours, start to finish. After that I would have a strength training session with my trainer Tommy Knox in Orange county, who is my. I don't really believe in having heroes, but if I had one, it would be him. He's just incredible. And I would go do fast twitch training. So basically it's strength training and really develop my ability to produce force and be a dynamic. And then after that I would drive back up to the South Bay, about an hour drive and I would work out with my girl Carrie and do either an in studio Pilates session or I would be on the beach doing cardio agility and Pilates on the beach with her. And then all of this, like when I'm doing this, my goal is to be done between the time my kids start and end school, right? So around 3 o'. Clock. My goal is to get all of that. And that's a lot to get in with driving and with just the output you have to eat here and there. So that was my gnarliest day probably. And then be mommy after that and be a wife after that. And to be honest with you, I'm still working on this. I. I need to do better at giving the energy to my family that I give to my dreams because it's so easy. Like you take it for granted. I'm home. I'm gonna plop on the couch, come hug me. But they wanna play, they wanna engage, you know, and they need more Energy from me. So of forever, what I'm working on now.

Don't you think that a male athlete with a similar schedule would not be playing Daddy so much at night?

No, I don't. I don't know. I don't know those male athletes. I know my husband, who's a male athlete, and he plays Daddy like a champion. I don't know. I know so many amazing fathers, and I know so many amazing just parents who do the juggle, and they make it all work because they want to. Listening to Kobe talk about his days and how he would wake up before the sun would rise. So he had a workout and come home, take his kids to school, get another workout in, pick his kids up from school, get another workout in. Like I. You can make it all work. You have to know your priorities. And for me, my priorities in life are very, very simple. But I've said this so many times. But if I'm ever feeling off kilter or like I'm in a funk, I go back to my priorities. My priority is my faith, my family, in my personal career. And so if I'm ever feeling wonky, usually what's happened, I'm just putting everything into my career and I'm not paying attention to the other two or one of the other two. And those things fill me up because I'm doing my career, in part to help support my family and to be inspiration to my children and to model these things. I don't know. I don't know.

What do you believe an Olympic athlete owes her country to give it her best?

Period.

Okay.

Yeah.

And what does a country owe an Olympic athlete?

Nothing.

Nothing.

I don't know what to say to that. What would you expect? I'm trying to think of how to think about this, but in my life, I don't know if I've trained myself or if this is just an inherent belief, but I don't feel like I'm owed anything. I feel like I have responsibilities. So it's like, I'm a U.S. olympian. It's my duty, my honor, my privilege, my responsibility to show up with the best of me, period. That's what I owe the honor of wearing this flag on my heart. So maybe that's a philosophical thing, but on the flip side, I don't feel like I'm owed much, except for perhaps the opportunity to try to chase my dream.

So when a Simone Biles or a Naomi Osaka needs a mental break.

Yeah.

How do you view that?

I feel that as very human. I view that as a symptom of we're doing it wrong. And maybe they need more support. And I feel like the learning is for them. Right. And Simone is there to win, to kick ass and take names. Can you imagine having to make that decision? Like, I literally have the yips. I can't. I don't know where I am in space. And I'm doing these crazy things. Yes. Stop. Like, don't put yourself in jeopardy. You know, you're 20 years old. Don't do that. This is bigger than that. I just think that it's a beautiful opportunity for them to learn. Maybe Simone would do things differently and Naomi would do things differently and kind of pre pave the road where they felt more mentally supported, or maybe they would take more breaks, or maybe they would build in more life into the pursuit. I think those things are all very valuable, even though they sound very soft. And then it shifts the conversation. Like young kids are being taught that it's okay to. To be anxious and that's kind of normal. And if. And there's help out there for you. So I think sometimes it has to get so bad and one of our heroes need to raise their hand for everyone to be like, oh, okay, this is a real thing. I was so proud of them for doing that. I cannot imagine how hard that is. Losing is hard enough. Like, on the world stage, there's so much shame, and it's such a bummer. You feel like you let the whole world down. But to like, pull back and be like, I need this for myself, like that, to me, is very courageous and it deserves people to be thoughtful about it. Not a knee jerk reaction of how selfish and how ridiculous they are, because that's not the truth.

Did you ever come close to that kind of moment that they did?

No. No. After April and I won bronze in Rio, I played in doubt for maybe even through the entire qualification leading to Tokyo. And that's miserable. And I think that's probably closest because playing in fear and doubt, it's like having a chronic injury. There's a undercurrent of toxicity in you at all times. That's not sustainable. That's not peak performance. That's the opposite of that. So I think that's the closest I came. But my response to that is, I don't know if it's healthy or not, is just to train more and to get better and to keep looking at myself in the mirror and keep developing myself. But it never became overwhelming to me. But I do have a great. I have a great, great support system and the older I've gotten, the more I realized how essential it is to lean on them. It's one thing to have them, it's another thing to lean on them. I think a lot of high performers have this conception that you're weak if you need help. But for me, I have a coach for every single thing in my life. Like, why wouldn't I have a mental coach? Mike Gervais saved my marriage, and he's saved my psyche as a volleyball player. He's incredible.

I'll be your podcasting coach.

Oh, do I need one? I do need one.

No, but that's like saying, do you need those other coaches because of some short come in?

And I think the answer is yes. If I do have a podcast, I need to coach. It's so fun going on. You know, sitting with wonderful people is always a treat. But I really appreciate how you listen and how you're prepared. Like, because to me, I talk so fast and I'm like, you know, my brain is like 18 steps ahead and where all I want to be is in the moment. And it seems like maybe it's all the surfing. You're very much in the moment, which is great. That's where greatness is.

Anyway, thank you so much. So I read somewhere that you were warned not to get pregnant.

Yes.

So, first of all, who the hell would have the nerve to say that? And can you just describe what happened in that situation?

You know? Yeah. I will never name names, obviously, because I think they're well meaning people, but I had two gentlemen in my life who right after Misty and I won our second gold, I had just gotten. I was. Had just gotten married, and I had a miscarriage leading up to the Olympics. And I was just so feigning to have a baby. And these were two business people in my life. They said, carrie, don't do it. You're gonna ruin your hips. You're at your peak right now. You're gonna take yourself out of the mainstream. Your sponsors will go away, blah, blah, blah. They're like, you know, and I've had six shoulder surgeries. They're like, your shoulder is gonna be hurt because you're gonna carry the baby. And it's just like, what are you guys talking about? Like, that is just so nonsensical to me. And they told me not to. They're like, you're Kerry Walsh. That's your brand. Don't add Jennings. People forget who you are. And I. I listened to that one. I didn't listen to the baby one, but. And I hate that I listened to that one because, like, no, I am my husband's girl. Like, I chose this relationship. I am a very proud Jennings, very proud Walsh forever. But I want to be what my kids are. My kids are Jennings is I don't want to be a Walsh to the public. And so these things are just. It's so silly. And it's, again, coming from a place of lack of and scarcity that I don't believe in.

And can you describe the toll, if it is a toll, that's a negative term on a family? When the mom or dad is an athlete preparing for an Olympics or a professional, what happens to the family?

Well, ideally, the family is part of the team and they feel part of the team and they feel connected to the goals. That, to me, is the highest expression of that. And so the connection remains consistent. Even if you're traveling around the world, you know, you're still very connected. Everyone feels like they're important and heard and seen. So I've lived that part of the journey. That's amazing. That's like heaven on earth. I love it. But I've also lived the part where I've been so focused on qualifying or winning that I took for granted my people. And I would say all the words and write all the love letters, but. But in action, I wasn't giving my full self. If I was with them, then I was like, okay, I want to be training. Not that I don't love you. I love you more than anything, but I have somewhere else I'd rather be because I have this itch. And so I've lived that as well. And that led me to almost losing my marriage. And so I feel like, to me, I feel like the antidote to much of life's anxiety, to much of life's disconnection, is just to train yourself to love yourself into the moment. Because five minutes of time, like one on one time, where you're so focused on where you're at, where you're 100% where you are, that feels like hours and a sincere conversation or a sincere hug or sincere moments with your children, even if your workload is way heavier than your time to be with them. Like, sincere and present. Living with your people go a long way because then they feel you and they know you care and they know they're a priority. And so to me, you can have both. You have to be selfish if you're going to be the best in the world. You have to sleep on time, you have to eat well, you have to say no to a lot of things. You have to be very mindful. To me, those aren't sacrifices. That's just the way. But on the flip side, if you just take for granted that your people are with you and that they feel loved and they feel like they're important to you, that's not going to go well. They need proof of it. They need the tangibility of it. And so I learned that the hard way.

Up next on Remarkable People.

I've edited myself since then, not because of anything other than the fact that my actions hurt other people, like they hurt my partners in business. And they were getting threats, which is crazy to me. And so this is bigger than me. I don't want someone to come after my kids because they disagree with me.

Listeners of the Remarkable People podcast will learn from some of the most successful people in the world. They provide practical tips and inspiring stories that will help you be more remarkable if you live in the US or Canada. Text 831-609-0628 to get notified of each new episode. Welcome back to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. Did you experience objectification as a woman, which is to say, could you play as well, but not in a bikini? You play in a particularly revealing sport, shall I say? So any reaction to that? That beach volleyball is sexualized?

I think our world is sexualized. I don't think it's just beach volleyball. I think that you can probably go on some web forums and see women and men talking about how hot the tight uniforms are in the NFL and baseball. I think it's everywhere. But to your point, our sport is next level sexy. You know, you're running around performing at the highest level and we're all in shape. Like, these bodies are beautiful. Bodies inherently are beautiful. You're wearing a bikini or board shorts and you're on display. And so for me, though, the way the sport was invented was in bikinis and board shorts. I have never felt objectified because I don't see myself that way and I don't see the sport that way. And I work really hard with my partners to create performance bikinis. Some people, their performance is very sexy, and it's a smaller top and it's a smaller bottom and that's their comfort level. And with that, they'll have to come with the criticism and the objectification. But if they don't feel that way, then I don't know what to say. Like, I'm more power to you. Like, truly, I feel like we all have different expressions of these things. The last thing I am is sexy. I would love to be sexy, but I'm just not. So I don't live in that world, you know. But I choose a bikini when it's cold. We wear tight leggin and tight long sleeves. We know I don't want baggy. I've like almost broken my toe multiple times when I do wear sweats to practice because you get caught up in it. I've almost broken my thumbs in pockets. So you want to be streamlined. And when you're competing in Tokyo or Paris in August or China or Brazil and it's 90 degrees with 95% humidity, you don't want to be wearing anything else. So I think if you're an athlete and you feel objectified by the uniform, you have to find your solution. And I feel like the world is more open to that these days. And on the avp, if you look at our domestic tour, people are wearing long bikers, biker shorts or they're wearing those golf skirts, which is interesting to me. But do you have to find your own way. But to me, it's my uniform is performance. So I'll. I. And I love that our sport is sexy. It's like sexy and wholesome at the same time. And I think that's a really powerful combo. It's hard to find.

What was with the whole mask drama?

Oh, with me?

Yeah.

I shared my opinion and it didn't go over well. I don't even know the bummer of all that is that it was so sincere. You know, we, who. Who in this alive today has lived through a global pandemic. You know, I don't know too many people that were alive in the Spanish flu of 1918. It's just a different world. And so for me, what I learned through that experience of me expressing that we need to be mindful of being mandated to do certain things. Cause to me it's a slippery slope. And to me, freedom is everything and bodily autonomy is everything. And my experience in my life with pharmaceuticals, with interventions medically, and my knowledge that I've gained over 44 years now of living in my life, my immune system, the way I respond to things, having been sick and gotten healed, I know that I'm always a solution. I never want something outside of myself to be a solution unless it's catastrophic, unless I need it. And so for me, I didn't believe that was a solution. I don't think you mask up healthy people, you know, and that was kind of. That was my point. But my point more than that even was like do what makes you comfortable. God bless you. Stay safe. Stay well. We need to be mindful of our freedoms, because once you give away freedom, it's really hard to come back. And history tells us that. And so that's where I came from, and people did not like that. And that's okay. And a lot of people understood it. But again, I've lived such an essential life in the medical field, and there's been a lot of bad things have happened to me because I had blind faith and trust, because the solution that worked for someone, was supposed to work for me, didn't, and took me the other way. And so I don't think there's a blanket prescription for everybody, is my point. And I think healthy living and all these things, and God made us with these immune systems that are so powerful that we reinforce them largely, we'll be good. But I think that we've taken for granted our health. We're disconnected from ourselves, from nature, from each other. And that makes you sick a lot. Let alone the anxiety and the traffic and the toxicity from everywhere and the fake food. It's a very deep conversation. But I've edited myself since then. Not because of anything other than the fact that my actions hurt other people like they hurt my partners in business. And they were getting threats, which is crazy to me. And so this is bigger than me. I don't want someone to come after my kids because they disagree with me. And I felt like that was a real, very real possibility. And so now, for me, I just want to live and be the example that I want to see in the world. You know, that cliche. I think that's the most powerful way to lead. Anyway.

Okay, my last question. My last question is that maybe of all people in the world, you know how to pick a partner. And I'm not talking about your husband partner. I'm talking about your volleyball partner partner.

He qualifies, though.

What other sport? I guess there's doubles in tennis. But different to me, a lot of it is partner selection. How do you select a partner and extrapolate that to life?

Sure. I just want to point out one difference between tennis partners pairs and volleyball pairs. So in tennis, you're not setting up your partner. You're responding to the ball that's coming at you. In volleyball, you're setting up your partner. Right. And so to me, that requires another level of connection and rhythm and harmony. And that, to me, is the most powerful thing ever. I love it because when I'm in sync with my partners, I am dancing and for the first time in my life, I'm a good dancer. You know, it's like the most beautiful thing. So for me, picking the partnership is everything. You said, what does it take to be successful? Partnership and the relationships are most important. To me, that's like number one. But for me, it's all about the intangible. Because at the highest level, everyone can play volleyball. They can jump well, they can pass well, they can do the skills. So for me, it's like the intangibles of do they have a beginner's mind? Are they, like, always kind of picking at their potential? Are they excited by their potential? Do they talk about winning? Are they brave enough to speak to their dreams and their goals when things get hard, am I able to stick with them and not run in different directions? These things that are so valuable that make a marriage work? You know, Misty and I, we were so different in so many ways, but we are so similar in so many ways. And when things got hard, we would come together, and that was our commitment. But had I not had the trust in Misty, or we didn't have that team trust, we wouldn't have been that great. So I think fundamentally, it's like the heart, it's the dedication, it's the way they show up. Energy is very important to me. If everything is heavy to someone and it's like, you know, they're kind of like Eeyore, like, everything's kind of gray. I've learned that I can't handle that. So I need a partner that. Not that they have to be sunshine all the time. I'm sunshine enough for all of us, but that they're excited about life. They want to train hard when they express that. But the intangibles are everything to me. It's a small pool. I know who everyone is. I've played against everybody. I admire everyone I compete against. But there's some people that make you think differently because the way they celebrate in the game, the way they express themselves in the game, and by the way they handle things when things get hard, I think that shows a of lot.

And just out of pure ignorance, though, as you say, it's a small pool. So is it like doggy dog is like, you know, I'm gonna go get her because she's a great setter and break her up from her partner? Or how does it work at this level?

You know, I think some people probably look at it that way. I just feel like if you want something, you respectfully go after it. If I want to play with a girl and she has a partner and they're doing pretty well. I can't think about that that respectfully. Like, I. And it's her choice. I'm not forcing anything. So if I make a call to the girl and be like, hey, I think we'd be great together. A, B and C, do you want to do this? She has that choice, and that's up to her. But some people, yes, breakups are part of it. There's not a lot of singles out there that are like, the best in the world. Usually they're all partnered up. And so you're going to have to have the humility and the vulnerability and the courage at the same time to make the call because you could be rejected. And that's ouchy. And a lot of people don't handle breakups well. They text or they have someone else tell. Like, it's silly how immature the makeup breakup world is in volleyball. It makes life so hard. But I can proudly say that anytime I've had to break up with someone, which was once, I feel like I did it to the best of my ability. And I was very mindful of their heart and their dedication and it was not easy, but for me, it was. I had to do it because it was how I felt. Felt.

Kerry Walsh Jennings, it's been a remarkable hour. Thank you so much.

I just appreciate your time and your twinkly eyes and your thoughtful questions. And I need to dig deeper into you because you have this timelessness about you that I think sustained, sustained excellence is like.

Are you saying I'm old?

No, I think you're wonderful. No, you're. You're so young and youthful. I just know your experience and you've been through it and you've lived it. And I think it's really special when you meet someone with such a. With such a pure, happy spirit. I think that's important. It gives me permission to have that.

So now you know what it takes to be the goat or a goat in your field. Thanks to Kerry Walsh Jennings for providing us this insight into what it takes to be such a dominant athlete. And there's more people to thank. First, Terry Mayall. Terry Mayall introduced me to Kerry Walsh Jennings, effectively being the person that made this interview possible. Thank you, Terry. And then there's the remarkable team. Peg Fitzpatrick, Jeff C. Shannon Hernandez, Luis Magana, Alexis Nishimura. And the drop in Queen of Santa Cruz, Matas and Nismer. Until next time. May your serves clear the net and be unreturnable. Mahalo and aloha. Thank you to all our regular podcast listeners. It's our pleasure and honor to make the show for you. If you find our show valuable, please do us a favor and subscribe, rate and review it. Even better, forward it to a friend. A big mahalo to you for doing this. This is remarkable people.