Min Kym: A Music Prodigy's Inside Story

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I'm Kei Kawasaki and this is remarkable people, we are on a mission to make you remarkable. Helping me today is Min Kim. I read about Min in Susan Cain's book Bittersweet. The story of Min's relationship to her Stradivarius was so remarkable and fascinating that I had to bring it to you. Have you ever bonded with an object, a camera, a car, a surfboard, or in Min's case, a musical instrument. So much so that it completes you and becomes part of your soul. What a great sensation. Min began playing the violin at the age of six, and by the age of seven, she was accepted as the youngest student ever at the Purcell School of music. At age 16, she was the youngest ever foundation scholar at the Royal College of Music. She was gifted a Stradivarius made in 1696, and she devoted her life to making remarkable music with it. Unfortunately, in 2010, Min was eating with her boyfriend at a restaurant in a London railway station and her violin was stolen. Kim suffered intense trauma and grief from this. Min's book, A Girl, A Violin, A Life Unstrung, explores her experiences when her violin was stolen, when it was recovered after she had settled with her insurance company, and how she now feels about someone else owning it. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. And now here is the remarkable Min Kim. I found myself envious of the fact that you could find a calling and a physical device like your straddle, that meant so much to you. Now, some people might say, oh, God, that's so shallow. You know, things don't make you happy. But when I read your book and your relationship with your Strat, you and the Strat were inseparable. It made you. You made it right. It was a beautiful, beautiful thing. I wish everybody could find something in their life that just becomes you and you become it. It was a beautiful story.

I think everybody does, though. You know, I think. I think really, you know, what it boiled down to was that it just happened to Be the passion in my life. So starting off as a musician, starting off as a violinist, aged six and a half years old, I was in love with the violin and music for as long as I can remember. And so I think when I found my Strad at the age of 21, it was almost like that feeling of, you know, I'm grown up now and it took me a really long time actually to find, to actually grow into a full size violin anyway, because I was a very tiny child and I graduated to a full size instrument maybe a little bit later than would be considered average. And so when I did find my Strad, it was only the third or something full size violin that I played on. And of course, you know, with the. Was a Stradivarius, wasn't it? So I mean, you know, it was just an incredible, incredible. Yeah, it was a magical moment when I found it. And I just knew from the first moment that it was the one. It was just that chemistry. I know it sounds like I'm talking about a person, but it, it sort of is actually. It's that sort of relationship I can totally understand.

I can understand to the extent that I can understand without having gone through the experience as much as you have, but I think it's a very understandable emotion in a very limited way not to draw a comparison. I love to go surfing, I love to surf. And I think people develop a relationship with a particular board just like this. And you spend years searching for that magic board just like you spend years searching for that magic violin. And at some point, that board becomes you and it's an extension of you and it empowers you. I don't want to compare a board to a Strad, but that's.

I think that's a really good analogy actually, because your, it does become you. And especially because you're spending so much time alone practicing with this violin, you become so familiar with absolutely every millimeter of this. You know, it does become an extension of your being, your physicality. And every violin is unique. That's just the way these instruments. There is a personality, there's a heart, there's a soul. Even if you try to clone one, if you like, you know, and, and there are violins. In fact, I've got one right now which was actually a copy, which is a copy of my violin teachers, Guarnerius. And even though it is the exact replica, if you like, it has a completely different personality, has a completely different heart and soul. It's a little bit, you know, I, I thought a little Bit about Dolly the sheep. The clone sheep. Yeah. So it's using the same cells and everything, but it has a different heart and different soul. And that's the thing about violins and particularly string instruments. But for me, as a violinist, I can only speak about violin in that way. And my relationship with the violin and it becomes a living thing. It has its own voice, you know, and it's my job as the violinist to actually find the voice and the violin and actually enhance it. So my job is actually to bring out the violin, the violin's voice, because it will never change for me. You know, it will have strops, it will have good days, bad days, and I have to work around it. And I think, you know, the challenge of that is part of the reward of becoming so close to an instrument.

It's bizarre, this conversation we're having about a piece of Styrofoam and you about, you know, a piece of wood. But I. I can absolutely relate. And. And just as there are. Well, not made in the 1700s, my favorite surfboard is made by a guy named Bob Pearson, and he's kind of the Strad of his day, Right. And, you know, and he makes boards, but everyone is different. And it's a. Anyway, we're. We're just going down this hole.

Do you know, the thing is, again, I think that's a really, really good comparison because, I mean, you're in the sea, you know, the ocean. You're, you know, you're. I mean, that. And music is nature. Music is, you know, it's the universal language. So I think that's a. I think that's a great analogy. Yeah.

Yeah, there you go. You don't even have to give me credit.

I love it. I love it. I love the way this conversation is going.

My second. My second fanboy moment here is. I am not a musician, and it was difficult for me to appreciate all of the technical aspects of your book. But I will say, even though I was named after Guy Lombardo, if you know who he is, but he's a big band leader in Canada, but as a writer, I have to say I admire you as much. So is this your first book?

It is my first book. I've always loved writing, though, and I've always loved just free streaming. My thoughts, actually, the book actually came about because during the whole period of the theft and the aftermath and just dealing with all the emotions of it, I was talking to the liaising officer who was dealing with the case, and he would phone me every Friday after work, 5 o', clock on the dot. And he would just give me some sort of update on what was happening with the violin. Sometimes he had. Well, mostly he had actually nothing really going at the time. But it was just hearing his voice that was so reassuring and a kind of therapy. And it was actually Detective Rose who suggested that I stop writing down my thoughts as a way of therapy. And so I did, and I'm very glad I did. When I read them back years later, several years later, gosh, it took me right back to where I was in my head. And I realized, actually that a lot of the things that I'd almost skipped over, like my childhood, my early adult life, I sort of lived through it in a rush because, you know, I was always performing. I didn't have time to sort of think about things. I didn't have time to think about my life and where I was going. I was so kind of single minded about the violin, my career, music, being an Asian. Yeah, right, right, right.

One Asian to another, I can say.

That, you know, there's, you know, if I ever wanted to talk about my feelings or my emotions, I mean, my dear mother, you know, bless her, should say no navel gazing. You know, I kept these thoughts. But I've always lived in my inner world. I'm very dreamy and I'm always daydreaming.

And first of all, you listeners, if you're getting the impression that this is an airy, hairy, granola, Birkenstock kind of stream of consciousness book, it's not. It is clean, it is organized. It's hard for me. Perhaps there's a writer named John McPhee, and he would do things like writing about how a craftsman makes a birch canoe and stuff. And your writing style is very similar. And I just love. Like, I have to do 52 of these interviews a year, which means I read about 52 books a year. So when I read most nonfiction books, I'm looking for subheads and bullet points. And you know how to do this. Step one, step two, step three.

Right, right, right, yeah.

And your book has no subheads. It has pages with very long paragraphs. And usually I hate that. But I gotta tell you, I just love your book. So bottom line, man, is if this violin thing doesn't work out, be a writer.

I have to say, pages and pages ended up on the cutting floor. Actually, to be honest, a lot of it was actually because I didn't intend in the first place for it to be such a sort of raw memoir. And when I started, well, I hated. So it started off really, because I was so bottled up and I just didn't feel like I could talk about it. And then it became like when you sort of open the wound, if you like, and it just all came pouring out. And then I couldn't stop talking about it. I think I finally stopped talking about it.

Now.

I think I've processed a lot of what was going on, but, yeah, it was cathartic.

I know the answer to this question, but sometimes in a podcast you have to ask a question you know the answer to. There's a part of me that says, oh, God, if she wrote this book using handmade Tibetan parchment, using a 17th century fountain pen with a gold nib, that would just be perfect. But I think you use Microsoft Word, right?

I actually do most things in longhand. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to say, sometimes it causes problems with my contemporaries because I think very few people write in longhand anymore. Is that right?

I can tell you that you and Julia Cameron do, and that is very good company.

Right, right. And it's the same with writing music as well. I do everything longhand. It's just ingrained in my psyche or something. And I actually tried to find some manuscript paper and I could not find any manual. I'd run out of, you know, my pads and. Pads and pads of manuscript paper. I couldn't find it anywhere. I looked on Amazon. I mean, how can you not find, you know, I mean, it. Obviously I could find it on Amazon, but it would take like four weeks to arrive and things like that. So I ended and I was. It was like an emergency. So I ended up, you know, getting the last page and just photocopying it, you know, 50 times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Times. We live in. Right.

There's no manuscript paper department in Harrods that you can just.

This was an emergency, you see, I needed it like within the hour, you know, I'd like to run out. I got on the last. I got to the last page. It's, you know, things like that. And also writing paper as well. You know what you call it? You know those. Those pads of letter writing paper that you used to be able to buy with, you know, the envelopes. God, this is really dating me. Can we cut this? Too late.

So you wrote it out in longhand on this beautiful paper.

Well, it wasn't.

And then what happened? You sent it to your editor and somebody typed it in for you?

I. Yes, I had. Obviously, I had editors basically cutting it down to size. And I think that's a really important Process really, isn't it? Because you always need the outside perspective. I remember fighting over what I thought were really important paragraphs and really important chapters that I really felt were integral to where I was at the time. I write about When I was 13, I was in a car accident with my violin teacher in Switzerland and I fractured my cheekbone and ended up in intensive care in a hospital in Switzerland. And the cause of the accident was actually that my teacher was actually driving on the wrong side of the road. And there was all sorts of difficulties around that because he didn't want to call the police. I was then taken to hospital. My parents were in London, they weren't around. I was in a state of shock. I was delirious, I think, and wasn't able to have a telephone. All of these things I said. And for me it was about highlighting that incredibly intense relationship that you have actually as a child with your tutor. I don't mean it certainly was not inappropriate in any way, I have to make that clear. But there is a closeness that happens. It's like being an elite athlete with your coach. They are the person in your head in order to take you to the next levels. And he was the closest person in my life at the time. He was preparing me for concerts and that's actually why I was in Switzerland with him at the time. And it was the first time that the cracks of the relationship between teacher and student appeared because I realized that the bottom line was he didn't want to do the normal things because it would actually impact his insurance. It was about him. And it was a really big moment in my life because I'm sure you've picked up on the book that the whole sort of narrative really is about. And I didn't even realize until much later that my entire sort of childhood to young adulthood was dictated by older, very charismatic men who had a direction for me. My life, they'd had my life entirely mapped out for me. And I felt that was my destiny too. So it worked. But then, of course, they're human as I am. And I think that balance that the human side of the relationship and the career side of the relationship and the musical side of the relationship, to get that balance right is really, really hard. And I so appreciate that. And I think my parents, not being musicians and not really being part of that scene, they really had to let me go as soon as I started playing the violin and I went to, you know, a world class teacher who was able to take me to that next level in a way, I Had to leave my parents because they weren't part of that world anymore. And so a lot of my care, even daily care, he would dictate my diet, he would dictate my day's timetable, schedule. So it was a very sort of almost codependent relationship that I had with my teacher that, as I say, that was. I've totally gone on a tangent here, by the way, but this leads to.

The obvious question, which is, all things considered, it's, you know, be careful what you ask for. Being a child prodigy may not be all that it's cracked up to be.

Or, oh, I. I don't think anybody would ask to be a child prodigy. I mean, you kind of don't have a choice. In fact, it took me really a long time to even be comfortable with the worst child prodigy. I remember giving an interview when I was 12, and the interviewer asked me, so, what's it like to be a child prodigy? And I looked at him, and he writes in his article, min looked at me blankly, not understanding the meaning of the word perhaps. But that was not the case. What I was thinking was, I don't know how to answer that. That is such a loaded question. It's like saying, what's it like to be you? You know, because I remember being 10, 11 years old and being singled out by adult musicians and, as I say, being put in the fast lane. And I would. And this is not false modesty, I would listen, I would hear myself play, and I would think, but I. I'm really not as good as I could be. I'm comparing myself to adult musicians. And I think maybe that was also part of the kind of psyche of being a child prodigy was that I never really felt like a child. And actually, to compare myself to other children in terms of the musical and technical ability was almost, you know, that's not where I was. I would play with other children and had lots of friends, and then I would leave. I would park the violin and the music side, that wouldn't come into it. But when it actually came to performing music, the violin, no. There was an ideal that I heard in my mind. And my job was to bridge that gap between what I heard in my head and to make it reality. And that remains my ambitions. Yeah.

So are you telling me at 8, 9, 10 years old, you're trying to compare yourself to. Hi.

Yeah, I wouldn't say so much comparing, like the playing or, you know, it's. It's. It's more about. Well, I suppose it's really about as I say the ideal voice, the ideal violinist, the finished product, if you like. But of course, I knew that there's no such thing. It's that whole. What I realized as I got better and I improved was that the more I improved, the more I realized that I couldn't play. And that would make me want to improve more. And then I realized just how much further. And this started really from when I first started playing the violin, age six, I just always knew that there was so much more to go. There's so much further to go. And when I skipped the grades at my grade four, I think, after about four, five months or something like that. And I remember getting my prize for getting. So I got. So I got the highest mark in the country for this growth. And so I had to go and collect this prize. And I'm standing there and I'm realizing that I'm like six and a half years old or something. And the rest of the people who are standing there are like 15 or something. I think, okay, well, that's. That's interesting. But I think, because it was normal to me, I think any first experiences that you have, it's new, and then it crystallizes as well. That's normal for me. And it continued to be that way until I got to that very, very difficult age where you're no longer a child prodigy anymore, but you're not actually an adult. So it's that in between. Bridging the gap between child. Well, we all go through it though, right? You know.

This may. This may be too personal question. But would you want to have a child prodigy?

Oh, what a question. I would like to think that if I did, let's put it this way, if a child prodigy was under my care, either as my child or as a pupil, I would like to think that my experiences will enable me to guide the child. But really, ultimately, it is the child guiding you. I think that is my wonderful teacher. He once said to me, there's no such thing as a good teacher. There are only good students. The other thing he used to always say was only because, I mean, he was a child prodigy himself. And he used to always joke and say. People used to come up to him in later life and say, hey, you're Rudy. Didn't you used to be Ruggier orici and things like that? And people used to compare him, his adult self to his younger self, you know, all sorts of crazy, crazy sort of things which he took in his stride and was very humorous about. And I really got it, you know, I mean, he was like. Even now I remember things he used to say to me, like, oh, yeah, that's right. Pearls of wisdom.

Okay, so Ricci was a prodigy, but Felix and Zhilin were not. So should a prodigy have a prodigy teacher or should a prodigy not have a prodigy teacher?

Oh, that's. Wow, you are good. You have good question. Well, okay, I should be on npr. I shouldn't be surprised, by the way. Okay, so. So I've had both, and I'm very glad that I had both. I think that I would actually say that Felix was probably a prodigy, actually. It's just that he had such a gift of recognizing the artist in his students and really nurturing that side of things. And I've been told that one of the reasons why he didn't pursue a concert career. He's never actually told me this himself. So this is hearsay that he got stage fright. And when he used to show me things on my tiny little half size violin, he didn't have a violin of his own. He said he'd take my violin and like show me and demonstrate. And he had the most beautiful sound. Like, even now I'm coming up in goosebumps remembering just his artistry. So, yeah, I would say that he definitely had that gift for communication. I'm not saying that Ghislin didn't, but Ghislaine was very much from the Soviet school of things, so it was very textbook. He was very ski. You know, he was very technique led. It was, you hold your bow like this, you hold the violin like this, and any deviation is wrong. And I didn't really follow that way of thinking. I think it was good for my own discipline, actually, to be honest. I think it's good sometimes to have that sort of. Okay, so this is textbook. I don't play like that necessarily, and this works for me, but it's. It's probably good to know what textbook is. And then of course, when I met Richie, he said to me, I don't care if you play with your feet, as long as it works.

So, yeah, so as a child prodigy or I don't is the proper term. Former child prodigy, but. And you address this in your book. But I'm just curious your current thinking. So are scales important or not?

They are very important. There's an art to scales as well. I mean, scales is music, really. Music is scales, just in a different order. It took me a really long time to really appreciate scales, I have to say. I mean, you know, to start, I never played scales until I went to Gisling, by the way, and I was 15 when I. So I played maybe one G major scale over and over. Felix was not about scales, you know, he was about the music. But I learned to appreciate the beauty of scales in the way that one appreciates the beauty of maths. And it did take a while, but even like today, I will actually always start a practice session with scales. It's just the most efficient way to warm up. It's, as I say, the music in every note. When you can actually really get to the heart of every note and you can actually play a scale with every note singing, you know, you've warmed up. So it's a really good sort of barometer to know where you are that particular day. And of course, you know, there's always on and off days. But scales, yeah, scales are grounding, scales are good.

So, yeah, part of my ignorance. But just by listening to someone play scales, can you make a judgment about their level of talent?

I think I can, yeah. I don't want to sort of assume because as I say, I think it'd be really unfair if somebody really was having a rough day or there's all sorts of reasons why somebody might not. But yeah, by and large, you can tell within a second. You can actually really tell within two notes whether somebody's a musician or not.

Really.

Yeah. But I think, I think that's a universal thing, though. I really do. Because sometimes we don't know why something feels so good and why something feels natural and magical, but it just does. Yeah.

I mean, not that I view everything in the world through surfing, but I think, I think. And I'm not a master. I'm, you know, I'm certainly no Felix, but I think that you can watch someone simply paddle his or her board a few strokes and make a judgment whether that person is a good surfer without catching a wave, just how they paddle out. But anyway, I digress. So.

No, that's kind of what I was saying. I have been in situations where you sometimes make a snap judgment of something. I think we're talking levels though, right? It's pretty obvious within a couple of seconds whether somebody can surf or whether somebody can play the violin, but it's how good. Yeah.

So many places in your book you talk about the multiple mins.

Right?

Right. So there's men, the person, there's men with the violin, men without the violin, men with the Strat myth without the Strad, men with the Amati, men without the Amati. So how many men's are there now.

Oh, so many that sometimes my apartment can't fit them all in, I think. Yeah. All these different hats that you wear throughout the, you know, the switching process. I don't know. I mean, does everybody have that? I don't know. I mean, it's difficult to know what's going on in somebody else's mind in that way. I do tend to change my mind a lot. I'll feel incredibly strongly about one interpretation one moment and then the next day it will be completely different or even the next five minutes will be completely different. But I think that's part of the creative process and I think eventually, actually I do find that it does center somewhere. I might be schizophrenic. I don't know, I haven't been diagnosed. But I do have lots of different Personas. Yeah, I think a lot of my friends do. So we never know which min's going to turn up today. Not quite sure how to take that. But I.

But if somebody said in one sentence, explain who you are, what do you.

Say today I'm a human being.

Well, okay, right, we figured that out. But I mean, are you, are you musician? Are you a soloist? Are you part of a quartet?

I'm a musician, yeah. I would say I'm a musician, yeah. Because it's where I started, it's where I will end and it's been all the bits in between. I've had so many different identities, as you say, as a soloist, as a quartet member. I'm now writing my own music and, you know, collaborating with other composers and musicians. So, yeah, there's a lot of things that's what keeps life exciting. And I never choose, by the way, it's not like a conscious decision. Again, this might sound a little bit wishy washy to your listeners out there, but there is a sort of organized chaos. But that's the way I like to sort of think about it because the way my mind works, it always does end up finding the center. And there's such a pull that it's so much bigger than me. It's almost like a kind of. I have to go with that feeling or have to go with that melody or have to go with that idea or it kind of pulls me there. And sometimes it takes a while to, as I say, to get rid of the, the chaff and to get rid of the noise to get them. There's a lot of. No, trust me, I think you probably figured out. But, you know, but it's good. I really enjoy the process of weeding out what's unnecessary? Because it's interesting. It's really, really interesting. Sometimes you come back to that sort of the clutter, if you like. And having gone through the clutter, you're like, oh, yeah, there's that. And then you come back to it later. So I never think of it as wasted time. As I say, it's organized chaos. I know where everything is. But, yeah, it. I'll come back to it. Yeah.

What violin is your current partner?

Right. So, okay, so I'm gonna take my time answering them because I'm. I'm slightly playing the field. Is that. Is that a good thing? I'll say.

Is there. Is there like a tinder for violins or something?

Yeah, well, yes, actually, you know what? I have. It's funny you say that because I do sort of liken it to a bit of a. Like a dating agency or something, because I think dealers are like matchmakers. A really good dealer who knows you're playing really well and has a number of instruments that they think might suit you. It is like matchmaking. I'm still playing on the Amati that you mentioned earlier. It doesn't belong to me, though. It belongs to a very dear friend of mine, but it's not mine. And it's, I think just that degree of separation matters to me. I will not say it matters to every violinist, but it seems to matter to me. So, anyway, I did have a violin. I've had a violin commissioned, and it is, as I mentioned earlier, it's a replica of Ruggiero Ricci's Del Gesu. And it is a beautiful violin, but it's modern. It was literally made during lockdown, the first lockdown. So I got it in 2020 and I've been playing it ever since. It takes a really long time to sort of, you know, play into these instruments. And it's very, very different to the Amati. So I'm. I am. I'm multi dating. What can I say? Maybe one. Look, maybe one day I'll be reunited with my Strat. Who knows? I mean, you know, I never say never.

You know, that's an interesting question because in a sense, did you not decide not to be reunited?

It was a series of events, which I won't go into too much detail here. It's all in the book. It was insurance matters. It'd been three years since the violin had been stolen, and I had already bought another violin in the meantime, because I had no idea if my violin was going to come back or not or whatever. And so I actually didn't have the means to buy my violin back. And that's why it went to auction and it was sold. And when I look back, I think there are things that could have been done. I made a series of decisions that, hindsight is 20 20. I could have reached out for more help. I could have done this, I could have done that, could have, would have, should, all of those cliches. But it happened. And as I said at the time, and actually I still feel this now, what was important after those three incredibly long years of not knowing where my violin was and if it had even been destroyed? I think a lot of people thought it had been destroyed in the police to begin with because it was too hot, you know, if you need to get rid of it. But it wasn't because I think the thieves actually realized the value of the violin. The press and everything. It was, well meaning. I think everybody wanted to help get the violin back. But yes, as you say, it put a whole other meaning to the violin. So when it came back, not knowing what happened to. I always knew. You know, I have to say, at the back of my mind, I never believed that being destroyed, it was just always alive. That connection was still, always alive for me. You always think, is that just wishful thinking? Is that just me trying to convince myself? But no, I will absolutely say that I just felt that it was. That the connection was still there. And so when it came back and we knew that it was alive, if you like, that was the most important thing to me. And that remains the most important thing to me. Actually, as I say, it does belong to somebody else.

And do you know who it is?

I know who it is by name because he's publicized it. I haven't looked anything up. I think, you know, it would be too painful. It really would be too painful, you know, without making it akin to a lover or a partner or anything like that. But it is for me. It really was my life partner. It was everything. It represented my career, my. My livelihood. But more than that, it was my life partner and it was taken from me. Not by choice. It wasn't. Like I decided, you know, we didn't go through a divorce. It was taken from me. Right. And so to want to kind of look it up and find out, it's a bit like stalking your ex on a Facebook book. I. I don't want to know.

When I say this. I think this is true for me, but let's say that I. I was the buyer, right?

Right.

And then let's say that I Learned all of this backstory. And furthermore, if I am the buyer, I'm probably a billionaire.

Right.

I can honestly tell you, if I had bought it and I learned all this backstory, I would give it back to you. I think it would, you know, that the universe would go back into synchrony.

The.

The axis of the Earth would shift back to where it should be. If you had that Strat, I would do it.

Wow, you're a good person.

Well, I. Talk is cheap, but yeah, I really think so. But anyway, if I may ask, what's the status of Matt? Is he still in your life?

No. No.

That's good.

I can only relate to my experiences from my experiences.

Sure.

And I wrote about that relationship very honestly. Maybe almost too honestly in some ways, because it was very raw. It was very painful, actually. A lot of my friends think that he got off lightly. They're like, oh, my goodness, this happened, and this happened. You haven't written that in the book. But it was really important for me to. To be, as I almost went, completely the other side. I didn't want it to be a kind of diatribe or, you know, that's not what it was about. It was actually about examining, like, how I allowed things to get so bad. Because I do take responsibility for every decision that I've made. I take responsibility for getting into that. I'm not saying that getting into a toxic relationship, you know, that I blame myself. I'm not saying that at all. But I do take responsibility that I did find myself in that situation and I stayed there far too long. I think anybody who has been in a toxic relationship will recognize the stages that it takes to get there. Nobody enters into a bad relationship. If you say, oh, this is a bad relationship, nobody goes, oh, great, I'll go there.

I was always hoping for that.

Yeah, exactly. Birthdays and Christmases come at once. No. It's death by a thousand cuts.

Well, I gotta say, when I read that story about him wanting a commission when you bought that replacement violin.

Right.

That he was discussing with his father, a commission or something, that is just beyond Thunderdome.

Yeah. But as I say, the curious thing about being in a relationship like that is that your reality becomes altered or twisted. I. It's really difficult to describe, you know, now I can, because even at the time, of course, my instincts were screaming, this is wrong. This is wrong. And in my gut, I'm thinking. I can't reconcile the way I think. And any decent person I think would think. But then when somebody is arguing with you, that it's business and you have to separate personal from business. And I think there was also an element of. I'm really not in a good state of mind. I'm pretty fragile. And when you have a lot of pressure from somebody you're actually in a relationship with, you'll almost say anything just to be left alone. And of course, he didn't get the commission. I was still enough sound of mine to say, I don't think so. But the fact that it even got to that stage, I honestly believe, though, that he won't even now, perhaps, I don't think he will think there's anything wrong. I think there are lots of people out there who do think that actually it's fair game. I don't want to be in a relationship with that person anymore, by the way. I actually don't want. I don't want anything to do with. With. With that way of thinking. But yeah.

So let's get off Matt.

Oh, gosh. Okay. This is off the record. Okay. Wow. That was like. I don't talk about Matt. Let's move on. Okay. Okay.

So now I have an out of the box, off the wall kind of thought for you. And I wish we had known each other back when this happened because I think. And you can tell me I'm full of shit and you just. Guy, what the hell are you talking about? All right, so I give you all that caveats, all those, you know, whatever, right? If I were the CMO of Sony Music when this all happened, and what, Sony Korea had the first license and it didn't do well. Right. And all that. There are idiots in how they market it. What they should have done, in my humble opinion, is market it as you've heard. This famous case of the stolen violin. This is the last recording of that violin by Min Kim. And I think people would have said, holy shit, we gotta get this. This is like. This is the precursor to NFTs. This is a limited edition, you know, recording. We gotta get this. Which is very different from what happened. Right? I mean, this is a great.

I don't mean.

I don't mean in a happy way, but this is a very interesting story. That's how I would have marketed that last recording.

Well, that's because you're a marketing genius.

I don't know about that.

Well, when the record was actually released. Two months. No, even. Maybe even less than that. So the violin was stolen in November. It was actually supposed to have been released in November. I was actually sitting in the police station, you know, the Night that my violin was stolen. And I get an email from Sony saying, oh, this is, you know, this is a schedule, blah, blah, blah, you know, this is what needs to be done. And I just went automatically into professional mode. And I wrote back just a one liner. Don't worry, everything's fine. That's not even addressing any of the things that they said in this email. It was just almost autopilot. Don't worry, everything's fine. And so the record is actually released in December. So yes, it was like weeks after the theft. So not a lot of time at all. I couldn't promote anything. I can't, I can't speak for the people who were in charge of the record. You know, I can't speak for the strategy. All I know was where I was in my head at the time.

Sure.

Which was, I can't deal with this. I just can't deal with this.

Well, okay, so it's easy for me to say I wasn't there, I'm not you, etc, etc, but as a marketing person, I would have made the sunshine. I would have said, holy shit, this is. But anyway.

Yeah, it's a difficult call to make. I was noticed of, I suppose, moderate success. I wasn't one of their huge million selling album artists. I'm a classical artist. Classical artists generally are. Unless you're like a superstar classical. And again, this is not false modesty. I'm just saying it as it is, you know, I mean, I had a very nice career, but I wasn't sort of in the stratospheres of Itzak Perlman or I wasn't that level of famous. And so I suppose there's a judgment call that comes with that. And they made the call. You're looking very scared. I'm sure you're right. Something like, I'm sure you're right. Maybe, maybe I am convincing myself that it was.

I don't know, I mean, I would have marketed it so hard people would be accusing you of. It wasn't really stolen. This is all a PR stunt.

So here's a question for you then, if you don't mind. Yes. Okay. So you're in charge of the marketing thing. Okay. You're dealing with somebody who is basically on the verge of a nervous breakdown. How do you handle that?

If I'm Sony. If I'm Sony, I say, you know, this is freaking a horrible thing. Perhaps we can spin this into something positive. Perhaps this publicity will help you get back the violin faster. This is exposure. We can try to turn a lemon into lemonade, etc. Etc. Now this is very callous for me to say and with a lot of hindsight, and you know, I know you're like just crushed by this, you never eat in a pret manjer again. I know all that. But I mean, for crying out loud, you know, the football that Tom Brady threw his last touchdown with right in the last game he was going to retire, sold for half a million dollars. So I mean, there's something about getting the last thing that this world class person did with this Strad. I mean there's a story there, but.

Maybe that's exactly it. I think what happened at that time, and I can say this now because it is in the past and I have moved on from it and I, I do feel I'm in a much better headspace. But I think, I think even what I just said a few moments ago, when I put myself back into that space, I lost confidence. I lost confidence in myself. I lost. So this record, it was the recording of the Brahms concerto. And you're quite right, this was a really, really important album. It was the second one that I had with Sony. So my first album was the Beethoven and that did, it did well. And that's what I mean by it was modestly successful. But this was the one that was supposed to really put me on the map. It was me as an adult, fully grown adult violinist, musician, ex child prodigy. And it was meant to be my, my arrival, if you like. And I lost confidence and I think that maybe, look, I, I, as I say, I can't speak for the powers that be at the time, but maybe it was because obviously I wouldn't have been able to fulfill any of the touring engagements. You know, I wouldn't have been able to fulfill any of the promotion. So in a way, is it better to almost wait until something else big happens? Well, otherwise, otherwise I'm just putting a different, just putting a little different angle on it otherwise, doesn't it? Almost. And by the way, this is exactly what happened. So you are absolutely correct in that it was the last album with this violin and it was actually the last recording that I made as a concerto soloist. So yeah, those two things are completely right. By the way, the album's still available.

So I mean there's, There should be movies starring Michelle Yeoh as you. Have you seen that movie? Everywhere, Everything, every something, you know, it's.

Showing just around the corner. To me, I was, I just, yeah, I just passed it today and I thought, oh, I want to see that.

Yeah, yeah. Go see it and if you can understand it, please reach out to me and explain it to me. Because I walked out of that movie saying, what the hell was that? But anyway, I know John M. Chu. I can introduce you to him. If you want to make a movie based on Gone. Two Practical Questions. So parents are listening to this. Talented if not prodigies are listening to this. And they say, so you know what is optimal practice? At some point in the book, you say two hours is optimal practice. On the other hand, there are people who are thinking you dedicate six hours per day. Christy Yamaguchi skates for six hours a day. So what's your concept of optimal practice?

I still stick by the whole if you have to practice more than two hours in order to stay on top of things, it's going to be a really hard life. That's not to say that sometimes you don't want to practice more than two hours or you've got a whole load of work that you really need to get through. You're not going to be able to cover it in two hours. But I'm just talking about keeping your fingers in shape, keeping on top of things. I think certainly when I was younger, I really didn't practice very much when I was younger. I think that's probably why people called me a prodigy, because I literally didn't practice. I was allergic to rosin. That was actually the problem. I was actually allergic to rosin. So I. If I used to play the violin, I would start wheezing and have an asthma attack. I eventually grew out of it when I was in my mid teens. And by then I think I'd learned how to practice in a very efficient, in the most efficient way, if you like. And it really is about just getting into the zone because I think a lot of time that's wasted in practicing is just the faffing around. And I think what regular practice does, it helps the brain be able to tune in to the zone quicker. So you're able to go from me talking to you right now and going, boom, I'm in the zone. And that sometimes takes time to get your head around. Mind you, it sometimes it is quite nice to doodle. As I say, you're just doodling around. I'm being facetious when I say wasting time because actually sometimes, you know, spending the whole day practicing isn't the most pleasurable thing you'll want to do. But actually practicing itself, I mean, I can say, yeah, once you get into it, it's fine. Practicing is so boring. It really is. Playing music is wonderful, but practicing. Because sometimes you are practicing the same bar thousands of times. I mean, really. Yeah. Literally thousands of times.

Yeah, literally.

Yeah. Because you get into a headspace, you get into the zone, as I say, and you start hearing the most micro things and you're changing things in such a subtle way, but it makes all the difference. And once you're there, it does become obsessive. I would just say to anybody who's listening, who's practicing, just keep at it, really. Because it does yield dividends. Now that sounded really boring. I shouldn't make practicing sound really boring because actually it is really necessary. Kreisler. Fritz Kreisler. The great violinist Fritz Kreisler. He said he got to a point where he was performing so often, he was performing like twice a night, that he said he didn't need to practice. Whether there's truth in that. But then I've heard other people saying, you know, if I don't practice one night, I noticed if I don't practice two days, my pianist noticed, if I don't practice three days, the audience notices. I don't know. I don't know.

Oh, wait, who said that? It wasn't an Israeli musician. I've heard that quote. I love that quote. But just to be clear, because there are tiger moms and tiger dads listening to this and they're thinking, oh, my kid has to put in a minimum of five hours of practice per day to be a world class anything. You're kind of refuting that.

No, I think it really is different for different people. I'm not copping out with the question, but I do really, really believe that. Because as I said, I suppose what I'm saying is that in order to get to the standards, if you have to practice more than a couple of hours, that's one thing. But when it becomes about really honing the playing, and that's limitless. Once you're there, once you're on that level, maintaining it is key. So when I talk about the two hours maintenance, that's what I'm really talking about is that if you need more than a couple of hours maintenance, then it's going to be really hard. It is hard. Any discipline, any physical discipline, to maintain that level of physical. Because it is athletic, you know, your fingers are, has its muscle memories and all that kind of stuff. And you want. Yeah, yeah. Why would anybody want to live a life that is so grueling? Maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm just really lazy. I Don't know.

You tell me you did it.

I just. I just think that it's nice to hear the birds sing and I don't want to just be stuck in a room practicing. Sometimes you're playing a really beautiful piece of music and you want to be in that zone. But no, no. You want to have a life as well. Definitely. Okay. Yeah.

One of the little interesting factoids that I learned, which just. That was a shock to me, was that you write it. And this is completely as an aside, I just thought about it as you use the word maintenance. I had no idea. To maintain a Strad. It's about $5,000 a year minimum. Like, I thought you just closed the case and put it in a safe place.

Well, I mean, the insurance alone. Yeah, I mean, the insurance alone is humongous. But then there are also other things. Violins are like thoroughbreds. They take a lot of grooming, especially the very old instruments. And my violin had actually been through the wars, you know, had pieces missing and all sorts of things, repairs and stuff. And you can't use just like super glue. It's got. There's a special glue, believe it or not, so. So it's very fragile and any kind of humidity, any kind of tiny knock can just get it out of whack. So, yeah, so each time it's this one, it's going to the GP surgery and having it looked, over, maintained. Sometimes it's got to have minor surgery. Hopefully it's not going to be major surgery. So, yeah, it takes constant care.

Other than being talented, I can completely relate to much of what you're saying. So one of the questions that I don't know if you knew or when you finished the manuscript, but you allude to the fact that when the Strat was recovered, when your Strat was recovered, it might have needed, like, major surgery.

It did happen.

So did that happen?

It did happen. So they needed to take the top off, I think, probably. And it's difficult to know because obviously I don't know how they kept it or whatever. We do know that a fight broke out between the thieves and the family of the thieves. And this is just a theory that the police have, is that somebody grabbed it by the body of the instrument. So normally you just handle the violin by the neck. You almost never touch the body because it's so fragile. And so there was a little crack down the side of the base bar, I believe, and it had already had surgery on the top right quarter of it that had been repaired and that that was actually Replaced. So, yeah, it was pretty major surgery. It recovered though, I hear. Yeah.

Wow.

I'm just glad it's alive. I mean, as I say, I'm just, I'm just glad it's alive. I don't know how often it's being.

Played, but yeah, maybe the current owner or the personal assistant of the current owner will hear this podcast and say, yes, I'm going to take the high road. I'm going to do the right thing. I'm going to give it back to her. That would be a great story, huh?

Of course. Of course I do. I mean, let's hope. I don't know. From what I hear, he takes great pride in playing it himself. And I, you know, look, I get that for him, it's his own journey with what he will now think of as his violin. And that's why I keep sort of making the analogy like a marriage or a second marriage or a divorce or whatever, because the last thing. And I'm really trying hard to be like, you know, to have a perspective of this because of course, I have my own feelings and my own kind of wishes and desires and all that. I do try and really understand that for him. He has his own relationship with his violin. He doesn't want to think about the ex hanging around waiting for them to split up. Wait.

But the metaphor breaks down because this was not a, you know, sort of no fault divorce that was stolen from. It got to him in an unethical, immoral way. So to right the universe and correct the wrong. It should go back to you from.

His point of view. I guess he will think that he bought it fair and square at auction. I mean, I. Look, I'm with you. Of course I'm with. As far as I'm concerned, you know, spiritually we belong to each other. But.

So what you're saying is because it was recovered and he bought it, it's not like he bought it from the thief and he kept it. He bought it. It was a legitimate purchase. It's not like it was a hot violin.

I get.

I, I see your point, but. Yeah, I don't. Anyway, so, I mean, I struggle with.

It, Guy, you know, trust me, I sort of, you know, I'm affirming your struggle.

Yeah, I think your struggle is morally the high ground.

Yeah, well, I suppose I decided that I didn't want the rest of my life to be dominated with feeling. Feeling the way I, I do. I mean, that's something that I have. I live with every day. It's true, you know, I know I'll never really get it. I'll. I'm growing to live with that feeling, you know, I have to. I have to have a sense of humor about it, you know, Otherwise, gosh, I don't want to think about the alternatives, you know. But yeah, it's not something that I want to obsess and dominant. I don't want it to be my. That was it. I didn't want it to be my purpose in life. You know, my purpose in life was. Yes, when I was with my violin, we had a purpose in life. And when I lost my violin, I felt like I lost my purpose in life and I had to find, I had to rediscover my life, my purpose, what had meaning for me. And I did. And so you get what I'm saying?

Yes, I do, I do. Last topic is a listener is a talented person, perhaps prodigy, parent of prodigy, friend of prodigy, whatever, friend of highly talented person. And so you certainly have perspective on this. So how do I find the right teacher? Coach, Mentor?

Okay, so speaking from my own experience, I don't regret anything. I don't regret any of the teachers I had because I learned from every single one of them the only thing that I perhaps would change, not even necessarily learning from a teacher or another, but is actually to recognize sooner if the chemistry doesn't work. Even as I said that I thought we are. But how do I. You know, I know now that because the chemistry didn't work and I stayed too long. But I think that in any relationship, particularly with something as important as. Because it's a one to one relationship, of course, with as violence with a teacher. And so it is very close and it is very intense in a sense they become almost like a primary care giver, you know, for your musical life. That's the way I think of it. And if the chemistry doesn't work, then it's not really going to work. So I would say that that's the most important thing is that you click. So for a parent, if they see their child clicking with. That's not to say that the teacher must never be critical, but that is part of the nurturing process. In order to thrive, you have to be able to observe and give perspective and actually nurture the talent. But that's the key word really isn't. It's nurturing, it's nurturing the talent. And I think that's what I would say is most important. Of course I'm stating the obvious really, but sometimes it just doesn't work between people. And it's not because either party is not talented. It just sometimes people don't work. And actually, sometimes what I certainly learned from my experience of being taught by teachers that I didn't necessarily click with was, okay, well, you don't always get on with everybody in life, but actually you learn to rub along. But I actually know that apart from just rubbing along, there's so much greater out there. There's so much greater relationships that you can have and that you can go with.

But how do you determine, let's say you're quote, unquote, not clicking. How do you determine if it's because it's not the right person for you or it's a growth process and eventually you will click.

I think that's the key word, isn't. It's growth. Obviously, it's a natural process that you will hit a wall at times, but if you keep hitting the wall, if you keep hitting it, that's not a good sign. So, yeah, it's the growth process. I think it's a very different times now, certainly when I was growing up, because if I look at some of the methods that some of my teachers use, I mean, that would just be illegal now, you know, I mean, like, we're talking hardcore. I mean, I don't know about you, but certainly when I was growing up in Korea, I went to school very briefly in Korea. It was still like whacking students on the hands with a corporal punishment and all sorts of bullying tactics. So we don't need to go that far. No, no, I laugh, but it's actually very serious subject.

Okay, so my very last question for you, I promise, is your advice for how to get into the flow, how to get into the zone. Because when you're up there, you're in a zone, you're in the flow. So how do I get in that?

Search me. You just do. I don't mean to be facetious, but you do just do something. Well, for me, I can't speak for everybody, of course, something just takes over. Something. I suppose that's the bit that I call my violin brain. The violin brain just takes over. And the violin is the conduit, the music is the vessel, and therefore, as an extension, I'm the vessel. But I suppose it really is about just getting out of the way. If you get out of the way, then you allow it to happen. Yeah. Huh.

That's a great metaphor. So the music is in you, and you just have to get out of the way of it coming out.

It's actually through you. I mean, music is around everywhere. Music is. It's just part of the universe. And I suppose that's what I mean by getting out of the way is like allowing the music to channel through you into the instrument, whether it's your voice or whether it's the voice of the violin or, you know, piano. But it is about getting out of the way so the music can go through you. And by that point, hopefully you've got the muscle memory so that you've got the skills, you've got the skill set in order to allow that to happen. But yeah, I think that would be the block.

Well, one of the consequences of this explanation is the realization that it's not about you, of course, it's about the music.

Right, but isn't that the same thing about everything? It's not to say that we have to have a sense of self. Of course, I'm not saying that because otherwise we'd be like babies with absolutely no concept or separation or anything like that. I'm not saying that's a great state, but I would love to be a baby again. And I think the only time that we ever really experience that is when we experience different cultures for the first time or different countries for the first time. And I always think that about the baby brain kicking in. So, like whenever I go to a new country or explore a different language or anything like that, it's like the baby brain kicks in and you suddenly feel yourself so like, it's just the wonderment of you feel so empowered but vulnerable at the same time because, you know, because you're not a baby anymore, you know, so there is a sense of awareness there. But I think that's exactly it. And it's a state that is so inspiring.

I know the feeling.

I think you do. I think we all do that. Right. That's the other thing about the idea that I just think everybody experiences the same thing. I really do. It's just that everybody has different skill sets. My skill set happens to be playing the violin and being a musician. And I always say, like a one trick pony, that is my way of communicating with the world. But everybody has their own way of communicating with the world. And I think that really is exactly what you're talking about. That feeling of just something greater than you or me or it's. Yeah, we don't need to say anymore on it. It's.

I get it.

It's all there. I get it.

I get it. I absolutely get it. I have to say that this has been a most Remarkable interview. This is very. I'll take that as a cultivate. You should. And, And I hope you. I, you know, I hope you enjoyed it, too. I hope we went to areas that no one has ever asked you about.

That was only my hesitation, actually, because I was like, wow, you are so good at just getting right in there. But I think, you know what that was. The other thing I learned about the book was that I was so scared. I was so frightened of writing things that I thought were, you know, secret and private and all that kind of stuff. And of course, I didn't. I don't say everything because some things you do want to keep private. But, you know, there were so many things like that. Oh, I can't say. Then I realized that, you know what? It's not that big a deal. And everybody feels this anyway. And that was the great realization about writing this book. It's like everybody, actually, everybody has these secrets, which is that we. I mean, I can only speak for myself, but I think I just want to keep that veneer between not wanting to express too much emotion and not having the courage to. To actually say, this is how I feel. This is how I feel. I don't know whether that's the Asian thing in me either. By the way. My mother always say, keep faith. And of course, I live in England. And the combination of having a Korean mother and having an English culture, we're a little bit more reserved here.

I think you. You threaded the needle. Listen, I hope my former guests don't listen to this, but let me think about this. So I've had about 140 guests, not all of them have written a book, but let's say there's a hundred books involved. This book here, this is the first one I'm gonna tell my wife. You have got to read this book.

That means so much. Thank you.

This is a brilliant. But I just. I don't care if there's no subheads. Bullet points.

You see, now you know how I go into a meeting. No bullet points. That's right.

Guy Kawasaki said there were no subheads and bullet points. And that's okay. That's how good this book.

I think that's going to be the.

Maybe I should write that review for you on Amazon.

It's going to be my next book title, no Bullets. No bullet points.

What? No bullets?

No bullets. No. That's. Love it.

Well, the NRA will hate you, but okay. And you know what? I don't know who put the title, but the title is brilliant. One word gone that is a freaking, truly brilliant title.

That came. Thank you. That came later. That came later. That was actually because those were the words that I said when my violin was gone. It's gone. It's gone. The unstrung bit, actually, I have to credit my editor for, because originally it was gone. A girl, a violin, a life, and she added unstrung.

It's clever. Yeah, that's clever. Unstrung. Okay. That's icing on the cake. But the cake is gone. And if nothing else, whenever I sit in pret manjur, I'm gonna wrap my backpack, little strap around my leg. How's that?

Yeah, yeah. It took me a long time to go to Pret a Manger. I haven't gone back to that one. I have to say. It's gonna take me longer to get back to that one. But they do great sandwiches, so what can I say?

But just to show you, you know, the. The depths of my culinary taste buds, I have to say that my. My favorite place to eat in London is Wagamama. I just love Wagamama. Is that a bad thing?

Do you have that in America?

I think there's one in Boston. But when I'm in London, I can eat wagamama every day. I swear.

I've got one just down the road. It's absolutely fantastic. Yeah.

One near Suffrages.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I live miles away from Selfridges. I live. I live just by the Portobello Road.

Is it costly to live near Portobello Road? Because you go every week.

The thing is, you know, know London. London is London. But during lockdown, gosh, the restaurants. I mean, with. With delivery, other delivery companies are available, but just thriving with the, you know, delivery and things like that. So I discovered places like, you know, like local places like Wagamamas.

And, you know, I love Wagama Sushi.

Bento and, you know, Tokyo. There's. There's an amazing place called. I think it's called Eat Tokyo.

Oh, really?

Just around the corner, which is absolutely fantastic. Yeah, it's great. If you come to London, you must come to my local.

I'll take you, and I will go to Waga. If you come to the San Francisco area, I will take you surfing. How's that?

Oh, I'd love that. I would absolutely love that. Yeah. I've never been. I've never been.

And then we can. We can recreate the Washington Post. I hope this is a true story. The Washington Post. Joshua Bell story about how he went into the. Did you ever hear this theory, this story that the Washington Post, they tried his experiment where they had Joshua Bell play the violin in the D.C. metro? So we'll have you play violin on the cliff at Santa Cruz. And we'll see if people recognize us. They'll probably say, oh, that's a really talented Asian violinist over there. And it's freaking neat.

I bet he hadn't practiced that day. I'm sure that's the reason why. I bet he played badly on purpose or something.

That's why he didn't get tips. So isn't this a fascinating story? I hope it's a movie someday. The Queen's Gambit meets Stradivarius. The lesson of Min's story may be that sometimes you just have to move on. But I ask you a theoretical question. Do you think the current owner of the Stradivarius should return it to men? I do. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is remarkable people. My thanks to Jeff C. Peg Fitzpatrick, Shannon Hernandez, the Drop in Queen of California, Madison Nismer, Alexis Nishimura and Luis Noserider Magana. Until next time. Mahalo and aloha. This is remarkable people.