When Structure Meets Opportunity for Detroit’s Youth with Renee Fluker

Hello, everyone, it's Guy Kawasaki. I believe we are in troubling and dangerous times. One of the things that's happening is that privacy is eroding. And when privacy erodes, so does democracy. So Madison Knysberg and I, we just finished a book. It's called Everybody has Something to Hide. This is a jargon free book. It is for everybody to learn why and how they should use signal. They should use signal to ensure their privacy, safety and well being. It comes out on January 28th. For five days, it'll be free, and then it'll go to $4.04. I hope you see what we did there. The forward is from Congressman Ro Khanna because he believes, like we do, that democracy is extremely important. And signal is one of the tools that can help us preserve democracy. So remember the name Everybody has Something to Hide. It's by Guy Kawasaki and Madison Nismer.

Our students don't know how to write. They don't know how to address the envelope. They don't know where to put their name or who they're sending it to. So we have to show them. We got to show them what color ink to use. We do dinner etiquette. They don't know how to cut their chicken or drink coffee or soup or whatever. We teach them all those soft skin that they need to learn how to do before going away to college.

Hello, everybody. I'm Guy Kawasaki. This is the Remarkable People podcast. And we scour the world looking for remarkable people, and we found one in Detroit, Michigan. Her name is Renee Fluker, and she is the creator of this really innovative and such a great service. It's called the Midnight Golf Program. And I will let her explain how this works. She's a former social worker and she truly has a gift in seeing the potential in people. And she's helping thousands and thousands of students in the Detroit area gain a better life and change the world. So welcome to the show, Renee Fluker.

And thank you for inviting me to be on your show.

First of all, please explain what the midnight golf program is.

Okay, so in 2001, my son was going away to college and his dad died in a car accident. And so I wanted to do something and I didn't want to do anything. And he said, mom, go back and start a golf program so inner city kids can learn how to play golf like me. So I listened and got some people together, and I started with 17 students and public housing in Detroit, Michigan. So I went knocking on doors and begging kids to come and play golf. And one Young man pushed me off the stairs and said, look lady, I don't want to learn how to play those sticks. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to try something else. I went back and told some people, I said, I got to try something else. Let's try food. So I said, okay. I went back again and said, we got food at the community center and all these young people came to the community center to get pizza. And that's how it got started, with the food. So we started with 17 students learning how to play the game of golf. We did not think about college at that time. Then eventually we started getting more people. Kids want to be in this program. So we said we got to add something to it. So we decided to add a life skills. You need life skills and soft skills to get you prepared to go to college. Because we want to make sure now kids can go to college. Well, it worked. Again, I had to have the food so my speakers would come and bring food because again, I didn't have any money. I borrowed money off of my 401k when I first started this program 25 years ago. And I know food was a very important thing that we had to have. And so that's how I got started because of Jason saying my go back and let other young people learn how to play the game of golf. And it left. From golf to college, from college to weddings to bridal showers. You name it, we do it.

So now, like, will you describe what happens in a typical, you know, weekday meeting? How much is counseling and you know, peer to peer advice and communication? How much is eating and how much is hitting golf balls?

We have two cohorts now, like I said, over 250 students. So we had to break them up. So 135 to 138 students come on Monday, Wednesday, the same for Tuesday, Thursday. So when they get here 5:30, we have a speaker, a different speaker twice a week. So we gonna be doing thank you cards in the next two weeks. Our students don't know how to write. They don't know how to address the envelope. They don't know where to put their name or who they're sending it to. So we have to show them. We gotta show them what color ink to use. We do dinner etiquette. They don't know how to cut their chicken or drink coffee or soup or whatever. We teach them all those soft skills that they need to learn how to do before going away to college. And so the name Midnight Golf came from Midnight Basketball. We were going to do a partnership with midnight basketball but we didn't like what they did. All they wanted to do was stay up all night and play basketball and they thought we could play golf all night. That did not work. So we end up leaving midnight basketball having midnight golf. But we rebranded our program to college career beyond midnight golf program. So everybody know is getting our students into college and we have to figure out a way to keep them at college.

So how many students have been through your program so far?

So we had over 3,000 students. And again when they come during the week, 5:30 to 8:30, we have a speaker. And then from 6:30 to 7 I have a full course dinner. Not pizza. We have baked chicken and a vegetable, a starch and they like different types of bread and butter, you know, rolls. And then after that they break up half a go get golf lessons for 35 minutes and the other half break into these small groups called tea time. T e e time where we got. Why is it so important to write a thank you card? Why is it so important to do this dinner etiquette. We teach them how to do neckties, we teach them how to do bow ties. So we have a 30 week program with 30 to 40 some people coming in teaching these different etiquettes.

Now I read someplace and correct me if I'm wrong, but every one of your graduates went to college. Is that still true?

97% went to college this year. We just completed our class of 2024, 2097% went to college.

Wow.

Yeah. And we're doing care packages. So all 200 of those students will receive a care package at the different colleges. We work with over 100 colleges and this year we got even more. And then I have 80 different high schools that we work with. So we have schools from everywhere. Like far as 45 minutes to 55 minutes for a student to get here.

Now don't you have like for every, for every available seat you have 10 applicants, right? So it's like 10 to 1, right?

Yes.

So now how do you decide who gets accepted?

So our mentors, we have 60 mentors. Out of that 60, 20 are midnight golf alums. So they didn't went to college, they got jobs and now they coming back and they want to be a mentor. So they decide I don't have anything to pick anybody. My staff don't. The mentors make all the decision. They go by their grit, motivation. We don't go by gpa, we don't go by SAT ACT scores. You got to show us that you want to be a part of this program. And the interview is about 20 to 25 minutes. And the interviews, we start on Tuesday and we're done Thursday night.

Wow.

For 900 people.

Wow.

So I read someplace that, you know, one of your dreams was to get a building. Have you gotten a building and set it all up yet?

I got the building. So a sponsor donated this old TV station in Midtown Detroit. It used to be Channel 56. And we got a loan from the Jewish Federation center for $12 million. And we renovated this building. And it is beautiful. You have to come see it. It's just beautiful. We have one floor. The basement was. It's like a pga. Four simulators, putting, chipping, all of that. First level is where we do programming, and the second level is our offices. We used to have to go to a school called Mary Grove College. And we would have to tear everything down every night, come back every day and put it together. And then one of my sponsors said, I want to give you this building. And I'm like, oh, okay, all right. But when I walked in, I'm like, oh, no, they can't do nothing with this building. It was like, if you can see the pictures, it was terrible. And now it's like, is that the same building? So, yeah, we need funding so that we can, you know, we got to pay this loan back. We have to pay it back. So I'm begging people to come see what we're doing. And I'm trying to help people to become like productive citizens. But I want them to be better, you know, like I want to be not. They don't have to be like me, but be like you want to be somebody and come back and give back. I gave half of my life to this program. I've been doing this 25 years, and now I. Eventually, one day I'm gonna have to leave. And I want the program to be sustained, you know, like, I want everything to be in place. I don't want to walk away and it's not ready. You know, I work too hard to put this together.

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You're listening to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. How big is your staff now?

We got 14 staff people. Our building is 40,000 square feet.

Wow.

And it's like, you know how you wish and you keep dreaming that something would come true? And it came true.

Wow.

It came true. And we get the chance to serve more students. And these are. Remember, these are all high school seniors, all high school kids. And people say, well, they should know where they're going to college. We have kids that don't know they're going to college until July. We have kids with a 1.9, 1.8 saying, I won't be able to go to school. We get them in college, we find colleges that will take them, and they end up that next year with a 3.4 or 4.0.

And how do these kids then pay for four years of college financial aid?

They do scholarships. They take loans. They take the loans to the max. I have one of my students who was in the program in 2007. She's a lawyer, and she's still paying $200,000 back that she borrowed at Michigan State. She said, I guess I'll never pay this off. But she's a lawyer. And, you know, that's our dream, to have our young people to go to school and get a degree and find a good job. But, you know, we don't know what's going to happen now because the student loans and education, you know, we got. You don't know what's gonna happen, where they gonna get the money. What happened to the Pell Grants? Will they still be around? That's my concern. Because if they don't get financial aid, they can't go to college.

So, you know, all politics and rhetoric aside, what do these kids need to succeed?

They need love. They need somebody to care about them. They need. They need a strong person. You know, what happened to the days when we were coming up and we had people that could talk to us and can listen? Like with midnight golf, they have to call the mentors mister, miss or misses you can't call them by their first name. Nobody in my building is called by their first name. And people Got away from that. So when they come in, they got to say, okay, yes, ma', am, no, ma', am, or no, I ain't gonna do this. No, we don't talk like that in midnight golf. And I think it helps them when they walk in the door. We give all our rules. We have a lot of rules. We even tell them, you know, you can't come in here wearing blue jeans. We don't do blue jeans. You gotta wear nice pants. If you don't have them, we will give them to you. Your boys gotta have their shirts tucked in. They gotta wear a belt. Girls can't wear bonnets on their heads. Everybody's gotta look like you're going to play golf. Boys can't wear hats in here. And we're just trying to prepare them for the real world. Half of them don't even get that kind of information going to school. So when they see that we care and I'm standing at the door every night, oh, I give out 200 hugs. Ms. Renee, can I call you? Can you do this? Can we do that? That makes the mentors and myself like, we doing something. We're doing something for the world, and we trying to help people to be like again. Be great, and don't do anything that you won't regret. And I always tell them, I say, you know what, Ms. Renee? Don't do babies. Now, when you go to college and get a degree, get married or whatever, that's your business. But right now, if you come up here and you say you're having a baby, I'm sorry, I got to help that person that want to go to school. And so last week, one of my alums, she was in the program in 2006, she got married, and she said, Ms. Renan, I'm gonna have a baby. I'm like. She said, but I'm married. I'm like, okay, but you're grown and you got a degree and you got a great job. That's okay. But right now, when you're trying to go to school, you can't take care of baby. You can't do that. And they said, well, my mom, my family never says that. Well, I'm gonna say that. I'm old school. I come from the old school. And as long as I'm around, we gonna always have my old rules. Do you think there's something wrong with that?

Do I Or you?

Do you think there's something wrong with rules?

Oh, not at all. Listen, Renee or ma', am, I probably like rules more than you do. So.

But yeah, we do a lot with our young people with rules and how you dress and how you talk to people, how you greet people, how you shake their hands. We even tell them, when you go to college, sit in the front row, don't sit in the back. And on the first day, they sent pictures. I'm sitting in the front row. Okay, good. Keep sitting in the front row.

So, you know, I know that you must have answered this question of 15,000 times, and you probably can even guess what the question is going to be, but I really want your take on this. Like, why golf? Why golf? Well, golf is the whitest sport there is, right? I mean, like, Donald Trump plays golf.

But you gotta remember our kids, African American kids, brown kids, all they know is football and basketball. Everybody thinks they're going to the NBA, but once we put that golf club in their hand, oh, my God, you should see them. Ooh. The last two weeks we've been outside hitting golf balls. It's amazing. It is amazing to see young people so excited about hitting a golf ball. And we wanted to show there's more than just basketball and football. And the young man I was telling you about that pushed me down the stairs, he got married. That was in 2000. He got married. And his daughter was in my program last year.

Wow.

So isn't that something? They're getting married and they got kids, and now their kids are coming back through the program.

All right. So I suspect of all people in the world, you know, what makes a good mentor? So what makes a good mentor, Renee?

Well, I think what makes a good mentor, that person is not your friend. That person can be there to give you some advice, to guide you along, but not to be your friend. Just like some parents think that they're their kids friends, that. No, we're here to give you support, to give you wisdom, to be there when you're going through hard times or give you some suggestions on what you should do in your career. But I just don't think a mentor could be your friend. And we always make that clear in our mentor sessions when we have training. They're not your friends. And we do have young people. We start at the age of 25. Our oldest mentor is 84. And we try to explain to the mentors you're not here to be their friend. And they understand that. And we do have an 84 year old, and he is an avid golfer. He retired from General Motors and he loved coming. It's something for him to do because he could just be sitting at Home doing anything. But he comes and the kids love him. They call him Mr. Mac. Hey, Mr. Mac. And he just grins and talk and laugh and he's like their grandfather.

Yeah. Wow. So listen, as you look back over the 25 years you've done this, what would you do differently? What did you learn that anybody who's starting a program to help kids could learn from you? So they don't make the same mistake. At least they should make different mistakes. So what's your advice to someone like that?

You gotta have dedication. You gotta have time. I gave up my personal life to do this program. And if you don't have the patience and the time and the commitment and the financial and the money, it's going to be hard. But you got to give it. All that you have is you got to have that passion. You got to be motivated. I remember when I first started midnight golf, it was just me. In 2001, it was just me. I did the grants, I did go to meetings, I'm recruiting kids. Plus I had a full time job with the state of Michigan and I was selling neckwear for Kenneth Cole. And I was traveling. So I got two or three hours of sleep in the beginning. And it was. I just had that. I don't know, I just had it. I couldn't sleep. I was excited. And then I would hear people tell me, no, I can't give you any money. You just started this program. But when I got my first grant, I was so excited and I went back to those people and say, look, I got my first grant. Now can you take consideration and take me back and let me apply again? But I just want people to realize it's not easy. It's not easy, but it's something you gotta be passionate about that you gotta have. You gotta just have the motivation and just willing to learn and learn from other people.

Renee, I gotta say that I am just so thankful that there are people like you in this world, man. Because I mean, truly, you are making a difference. You know, you're not about crypto or long term capital gains tax or anything like that. You are really, you are truly making the world a better place. Wow.

And I think about all the years and I think about everything I've done. I even go to the colleges, I didn't even tell you this. I go to the different schools and see students. Sometimes when they are having some issues, I jump on the airplane, I'm there for them. But it just give me hope that it's still good people in the world and it's still somebody who care about me. I got some angels somewhere around here that care about me because I'm still doing it.

So, Renee, what if a kid comes to you and you know that kid is angry and skeptical and untrusting? Well, first of all, I don't know if such a person would get into or program, but let's just say that happened.

Oh, it happened.

Okay. So what do you do in that kind of case?

So a young man came to midnight golf, and he was talking while the speaker was talking. He kept talking and talking and getting, you know, trying to be funny. You know, how you want to be attentive, get some attention. So he kept talking and interrupting the speaker. So I went over to him and I said, get the F out of my class. Oh, Everybody did like, Ms. Renee, cousin, Ms. Renee is upset. I said, get up. Get out now. Get out. So he got up, he walked out the door, and somebody came and got me. He was on the stairs at the school where we were at, crying. And he. I went and sat on the steps with him and I said, I really didn't appreciate that. I said, I never lost it with anybody. You're the first person. He said, Ms. Rene, I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. I said, I need you to go back in that room and apologize. And then I want you to leave. And I got to think about if I want you to come back. He came back. This young man, I mean, is totally, totally different. But he was just used to being a class clown, you know, just being funny and talking. And I just got tired and I lost it. First time I ever done that. But over 3,000 kids, that was the first time that ever happened.

And I bet that story is midnight golf war.

Oh, and his brother was in it. And his brother, we still talk about it when I see them. But, you know, it's like you being disrespectful. These people left work to come here to give you these skills, and you gonna sit here and be disrespectful? No, no, not in my class. Not in this class. You're not going to do that.

So, Renee, I can't tell you that I am familiar with all these issues you're dealing with and all that. You know, I'm from Hawaii. I live in California. I'm 71 years old. So just for me and the people listening who are kind of similar to me, what are things that we always get wrong about at risk youth and the kind of youth that you're dealing with, you know, just Demystify this for us.

Well, I think people get the wrong impression when you see kids out walking around and they. On their phones, they stay on the phones, or either they walking around, their pants hanging down, they talking all crazy. I think they get the wrong idea that they're bad kids, but I think they just need somebody to listen and someone to tell them, this is how you should be acting when you out in the public. I can go somewhere right now, see some kids on the corner, and I don't like what they saying, and I shouldn't say anything to them, but I do. And they say, oh, you're that lady in that midnight golf program down the street. Yeah, I'm the lady down there. Okay, we won't do that. But, you know, some kids you just. You can't do. You can't say anything to. But I try with my students and with their siblings. This is not the way we're going to act in.

In.

At this program. Or you should tell your friends they shouldn't be like this either. So I don't know if it works. But so far, again, like I said, kids are coming here or they. They have to tie these shoes. That's another thing. Young people don't want to tie their shoes. And we have stairs. You got to go up and down, and I don't want anybody to fall or trip. So we. When they walk in the door to check in, we check their outfits and we got to tie. You tie your shoes if you don't. Some kids don't even know how to tie their shoes. I have videos where I have to show them how to tie these shoes. Now, are you 18? 17. 18 years old, and you don't know how to tie your shoes? So I get down and I show them how to tie their shoes. They take the shoestrings and stick them in the side of their shoes, and they don't tie them. And their shoes go up and down, up and down, up and down. So I'm like, no, not in my building. You're 17 years old and don't know how to tie your shoes.

Wow.

You'd be surprised at some of the things we find. And now we got a thing where all the boys are wearing their hair and braids and they're covering their eyes. So I told them last week, I said, I bought these little rubber bands and I said, I need you to tie your hair. I need to see your face. I need to see your beautiful eyes. Well, that's the style. Well, not in here. That's not the style. You don't like it, you can leave. They put that hair back. But that's the thing. Everybody want to have their eyes. Like, let me see your beautiful eyes. Why are you doing this to me? Okay, Ms. Renee.

My God, what a force of nature. When is there gonna be like the Renee Fluker movie here?

I mean, can you get us started, please? I want to write a book. I really want to write a book. I want to tell my story so that other people might have a different idea. They may want to do tennis or they may want to do art, you know what I'm saying? Or they want to do something. But I think if they can hear what I'm saying, that you can do it. If you believe in it and you can touch it and you motivate it, then you can do it. But you gotta feel it. And I feel it every day of my life. I feel this program. And I missed out on my life just because of midnight golf. I'm not married, so what's gonna happen? Who's gonna take care of me in the next 20 years, 10 years? You know, I'm gonna be all by myself and all my midnight golf kids. Like the old lady in the shoe. All those kids, she didn't know.

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Become a little more remarkable with each episode of Remarkable People. It's found on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to Your favorite shows. Welcome back to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki. You know, Renee, I kind of doubt that you are going to be alone in the next 20 years. I just don't see that happening. Renee, you're a ray of sunshine. It's not going to happen that way.

I hope not. Like I said, I gave this program my life sometimes. When I did a speaking engagement this morning at Michigan State, and I got kind of choked up at the end, and they were. Somebody said, have they started on your secession? And I'm like, yeah, we got a committee. They got a committee going. But I'm not ready to leave. I still got a little bit more in me.

All right, so, like, let me get this straight. Somebody asked you about your succession plan.

Yeah.

And you are. You said 50 years old?

No, I'm 70. Oh.

Well, you look like you're 50. All right, so what can I say?

Yeah, I'm 70. I'm like you. I'm in your category.

That's a. It's lonely at the bottom. I don't know. So.

So, yeah, I'm just saying I just want to continue to do what I'm doing for right now.

Well, I know some people who are nine or 10 years older than you who are running some bigger things, too. So, you know, I don't think 70 is the new 55, let's say.

Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. I like that. Because I'm sure people want to know, how does this program get started? Why are we doing it? When do you do it? And how often do you get new kids? But again, if I could just tell my story and how all this got started, it was not easy. This was not easy. It was not. But working all those jobs, and I had great people behind me to support me and show me I could do it. But a guy told me today he's trying to do something with this Japanese kids, but it's hard. And I said, no, you can't do that. Just think about it. You got to do this and do that. And you know what he said? Oh, I love your advice you gave me. I said, you got to go start a 501C3, and you have to do it. You don't have no choice. That's what you like doing. And I talked to him for about 30 minutes and I took notes, and he said, oh, I'm going to try. I'm going to do this. He speaks Japanese and he wants to. To start a program for kids that came from Japan.

You know, I hope that someone listening to this episode gets moved enough to start helping you, I do, too. Wow.

I just wish that I had a fairy godmother that can come in here. Maybe I could take more kids. I can take juniors. I really want to do a pilot program with juniors. Maybe they don't come twice a week. They come once a week. But get them prepared to become a senior. And it takes money. It takes a lot of money. My food bill is about 25 to 30, $35,000 a month when I have a full month. And again, I feed the kids, I feed the mentors, and I feed the PGA guys, because you're here from 5:30 to 8:30, that's dinner time. And we want everybody to be happy.

Well, you know, if you're listening to this episode and you are moved by this story, I mean, here's a call to action, right? Go to your browser and type in midnight golf program, and you'll easily find Renee Fluker at her program. And this is a way you can really help make the world a better place. There's no doubt in my mind here. So, Renee, I just want to thank you for being on our show. This is really inspiring, and from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you for what you're doing to make this a better life for all these kids. It's really a noble thing that you're doing.

Thank you. And thank you for listening to me. And I hope your listeners will take the opportunity to look at our website. And again, they can do midnightgolf.org or they can do collegecareerbeyond.org and it tells the story in my website. And you can hear videos and you can see pictures and you can see everything we're doing. We're in the process of two things happening. One, we have that sustainability where we're trying to raise money for the building so you can get your name on the building or room or office. And we're also getting ready for a college tour in March. And we're going to Savannah, Charleston, and Charlotte. And a lot of our students have never been outside of Detroit. So we have six buses, four Embassy Suites, hotels, eight colleges, four golf courses. And we need funding to do all these things.

Wait, so you and these kids that you just jump in six buses and off you go on a college and golf tour?

Yes.

Wow.

We've been doing it for 20 years. I started with one bus, and now I'm at six buses. They said, well, you should go to eight. No, I'm not going to eight buses on a bus. We have nine mentors and 45 kids between. 40, 45 kids. So we have a 52 passenger bus. And I always tell them, Ms. Renee, do everything first class. So we have new buses. I go to the bus company and I fuss with them. I have to have new buses. We're on a bus for 14, 15 hours. I'm on that bus. We have to have new buses. The hotels is Embassy Suites. That's $100,000. You know, there's three people in the room. I do not put two kids in a bed. They have to be in their own beds. And then we do a dinner that Thursday night, a dress up dinner. And we have it like at a country club or a private club. And it's something that they would never forget. And they still talk about it from 2005.

Wow. That is a great story. That is the way to end this episode. That is a great story. Thank you very much, Renee Fouquet.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Let me take a minute or two and thank the rest of the Remarkable People team. And that would be Madison Nismer, co producer with Jeff See, co producer, Tessa Nysner, researcher, and Shannon Hernandez, who is our sound design engineer. So that's the Remarkable People team. And I encourage you one more time to go and look at the program that Renee has created. And you will definitely be helping something that's making the world a better place. Thank you, Renee.

Thank you.

This is Remarkable people.