Discovering a new identity #immigrant_experience

Hey, everyone, it's Har. Thank you so much for joining me. Today we have another interview as part of the Immigrant Experience series. And in this episode, you will get to meet Marcelo. When Marcelo first moved from sunny Sao Paulo to snowy Iowa, the first thing he experienced was depression. He did not feel like he belonged. He felt that English was an obstacle because he wasn't able to fully understand the people he was working with. And also, the cultural gap was really noticeable and he did not know how to navigate it. So in this episode, he's going to share with you how he was able to overcome all that, own his English, overcome mental and psychological obstacles and barriers, and he's also going to share with you a few tips if you're thinking of immigrating. Marcelo's story is so interesting and inspiring, and I'm inviting you to listen to it. Hey, Marcelo. So, so good to have you here. How are you doing?

I'm doing great. Hi, Hadar. How are you doing?

I'm doing amazing. I'm super excited for this interview. We've known each other for quite a bit for almost a year, I think.

Almost a year, yes.

And I can't wait for my audience to get to know you and your story as part of our Immigrant Experience series. So before we begin, why don't you just quickly introduce yourself to the audience, tell us where you're from and maybe where you live right now.

All right. I'm Brazilian. I'm from Sao Paulo. It's one of the biggest city in Brazil with more than 20 million people. And right now I'm living here in Austin, Texas. Austin is the capital of Texas. Completely different from Sao Paulo, but I really like it.

How long have you been living there?

Here in Austin, I've been living. I moved here in 2016. It's been six years. Yeah. Before moving to here, I lived in Iowa, which is the Midwest, in a city called Des Moines. It's a French name, but it's called Des Moines, which is also the capital of Iowa. And moving from the Midwest to the south of United States was kind of shocking for me because they have a different culture and I had to adapt. I must say that I really liked the south. Comparing to the Midwest, how would you.

Define the difference between the two?

The Midwest, there's less diversity. The state per se, I think, has only 2 or 3% of diversity. But Des Moines, I think had, like, I would say 86% of white people, and the rest was, like, Latinos, black, and other, maybe Native Americans. So the diversity here in Austin is much more compared to that. And here in Austin we have at least 35% of Latino, 35% of Latinos. And that to me is like, it's a huge difference. And it makes me feel like more part of the society, part of the community.

Which is something that you did not feel in the Midwest.

No, I think that's an interesting part because somebody told me on my first week there, they said these people, they are nice, but it's just a fear change. And that is stuck into my mind. It's almost like they feared people from outside. And from outside it could be anything. It could be language, it could be ethnicity, it could be anything. And he even told me he was a nice guy. And he told me because he took me to a baseball game and he was really nice. And he said, oh, that's sad because the company is bringing you guys here and just drop. Because then what happened? They brought us here to work, first of all. I didn't know it would be Iowa at the time, but they brought us there. They brought me there and just dropped me. And I had to decide by myself where to live, everything, to figure out everything.

So what was it like to move from, you know, the culture that you knew in Brazil, in Sao Paulo, to move to that culture? Not only that, it was probably very, very different. And we can talk about the differences between Brazilian culture and Midwestern culture, but also moving to a place where the other is feared. Right. Of or people are afraid of the other. So what was it like in that in addition to, you know, all the, the things that you have to deal with, like finding an apartment and bureaucracy and the visa and work and then getting around town. So all of that, like that alone is a lot to deal with. You know, even in your own town, when you move from one apartment to another, that's like you're shut down for a month. Right. So to move to a different country, but also to change the environment, to change the culture completely. I'm sure that it had an impact on your well being or feeling. You know, how you're. You're feeling.

Yeah. First of all, I was in Brazil when it was January 13th. I remember that. Imagine summer in Brazil and I was arriving in the Midwest. This is a small town from 20 million people going to this small town that has half a million people. And when I arrived, it was my first time seeing snow. I could see all those little houses. And in the morning all the houses look like the same, like the two story, like beige or blue. And I was just looking And I said, oh, my God, what the hell have I done?

Okay, well, that's an interesting start. What the hell have I done?

I had really, that feeling.

Good luck with that.

And then I had a. The company had. They got to be like a hotel. They paid me a hotel to stay for two weeks. So I pulled the cab. The guy took me to the hotel was very close to the airport. I got here I am. I don't know what to do. And, you know, the first days was just, like, crazy because I had to order pizza to bring. Everything was paid, was two weeks. That was fine. But, I mean, I was really excited. First of all, when I decided to come, I was thinking about wanting to stay for six months. And then I got there my first day. They were really nice and everything, but it was interesting because they really liked me. They gave me everything that I needed. But first, the thing that I noticed is I couldn't understand my manager. I wasn't sure was his accent or anything. He was talking to me. I was just like. I could like, one word or different words here and there, but the whole thing, I said, oh, I thought, can you please send me an email so I'll take a look when I get to my desk?

That's a pretty resourceful way to handle this situation. Yeah.

I was actually really surprised because I really thought my English was up to do that. I had studied a lot of English for a long time. I had done toefl. I had done a Michigan exam. I thought I was ready. I had no idea who would be like that. And I started noticing that I couldn't really understand them. I couldn't understand, if you're talking slowly, you're talking directly to me. But sometimes I'd see people talking on the corridor, like two people talking, and to me was just like gibberish. It's just like noise. I was just like, oh, my gosh, I cannot understand what you're saying. And that's going to.

This is something that a lot of my students tell me that the discrepancy between the learned English and what happens when you come to use it in real life. And there is like, it's. It's like a totally different language. Not only that it's spoken and listen to, you know, versus written and read, but also, yeah, like, you know, you hear different accents, you hear different rhythms. The language is not the same as it's used for, you know, learning materials a lot of the times. So for sure. And how did that make you feel like, not being able to understand?

I Was. I was kind of lost. But I said, okay, I knew what to do, I knew about my work. So basically I was just, like, working and send emails. I was able to read the emails to do and talking to my manager. And I think apparently he could understand me. I was not sure, but I wasn't even thinking about, like, is that my accent? I was completely lost in terms of language. And at that time, I was, like, watching TV at home. But of course, the first thing that got me was I probably got depressed because the first three. First month I did not go to the gym. I was very used to go to the gym in Brazil, so I had a YMC very close to my apartment. But it took me three months to react, to be able to go to the gym. And when I entered the gym, when I entered ymca, it was really good for me because first of all, I was exercising every night and I was seeing people, I was hearing teachers. I was in all those classes at the time, like kickboxing classes and that kind of stuff. And that was kind of, I think, helped me a lot, seeing other people besides work. I mean, at least.

Would you say that it was that you didn't take action because you were crippled by the change and all the things that you had to process?

I didn't realize I was depressed until. But I think the depression, if I have to think back, it doesn't last. To me, it didn't last only three months. It lasts probably like two or three years, my first. You know what I mean? Because it's just like, you don't notice you're doing stuff, but you're not active. I think because you are not active in the community, you're not active as a person, you lose your identity. And when you realize that you lost your identity, you're gonna have to start from zero because there's so many things people are talking taxes. You have no idea about taxes. They're talking about politics, local politics. You have no idea about politics. You have. There's so many things. Like, I remember going to the store, my store is called Target. And I would buy my grocery store. Then I think I bought, like, a lime or a lemon? Lemon. A lime. And I asked the lady, I don't know the name of this thing, and she said, why did you buy if you don't know what it is? I said, I know what it is in my language. I don't know what it is in English. And I was just, like, surprised. Like, see, like, people. It seems like people are not really prepared to have These people strange, first of all, was like completely strange, color, accent and whatever they, you know. But I was taking this as I would stay there, I would. And the thing is, after a few months, they offered me permanent position, they offered me green car, they would take care of everything. So they started. I said, oh, I need some time checks up.

So they start, okay, wait. So I want to go into that and for you also to give us some context at where you like what you do. So I'm sure a lot of people are wondering, but before that, because there are a lot of people watching this who are about to immigrate or have just immigrated and, or they're, you know, thinking about it before we move on. Like, you know, talking about this depression and losing your identity and not being a part of a community. What are some of the things that you would recommend people who just immigrate to do or to think about so that they will be aware of it and, or avoid the things that you had to go through?

I think the very first thing of course is language, right? You need to make sure that you really understand almost like 100% of what people say. You need to know that you need to at least be able to understand what they say. And as far as I'm speaking, I would say you need to be very clear and confident. Which I was not because I lost my confidence like in the first couple of weeks I had all my confidence to do. But you really need to work that out before you. Yeah, you need to know your self worth. You need to know your self validation. You cannot expect for people. Oh, they thought my English was good. Oh, somebody said my. No, you need to know your English is good is clear enough. Of course you're gonna make mistakes all the time. We're still making mistakes. I'm still making mistakes, but I'm still making mistakes. But you need to be confident about it. So that's the first part, I mean, because I think if you're very confident about yourself in validation, self worth validation. And then the other thing is really to wait.

So this is really good. I'm just gonna repeat what you just said because I think it's so good and so important for people to hear it again so that like before you make such a move, your identity is going to be shaken and challenged. And if you feel insecure about who you are and your self worth, then this would be like an opportunity or a pitfall for you to fall into and go into that self sabotage or depression because it is going to press on all Your buttons kind of generate that inner. Like not generate, but it's going to be an incentive for the inner critic to take over. So to really do some personal work on your mindset and your self worth and remember that you are worthy no matter what happens. And I think this is such a good point. And no one thinks about it. We think about how to move our stuff across the ocean or across the continent. But yeah, we don't think about that more.

So because the American society, they are very hard, at least at work. People are really like, they're kind of seeing from outside. They almost like they're rude, right? Because everybody, they want the. They talk, they talk in your face, whatever needs to be done. I mean, you need to be prepared for that. In Brazil, there's a lot of avoidance. People won't tell you everything's fine, people get laid, the meetings. No, you're gonna be in a very harsh environment. I mean, not bad environment. Just like you need to be prepared for that because it's gonna be like you're gonna have to speak out, you're gonna have to prove your point, and then you're gonna need your confidence. And if you don't have that, I think it's even hard to fake till you make it. At that point, you'd be so weak, they won't have energy to create that if you don't come prepared. It may take like what happened to me, it took like years, two or three years to be able to come out of that.

So what was the second piece of advice that you had for people who are about to make that change before working on themselves?

I think somebody told me this too. I think some lady said, because I think I was complaining about, okay, I decided to move and everything, she said, that's true. But sometimes we don't decide to move across country in our country and we decide to move out to another country without having that experience. Because I always lived with my family. My family lived together. Everybody lived like 5, 10 minutes to each other. So I, of course, I've never thought about that. Leaving Brazil, oh, I'm gonna move to. I was from Sao Paulo, I'm gonna move to Amazon or I'm gon to whatever it is. Because then it would be experienced to me how it is to live far from your family. Because if you're not to bring your whole family, then you're gonna be by yourself. So you need to have that. You know, like the psychological preparation is very important as much as language. And that's something that I think if you have that, that's a very interesting experience because, like, it took me a long time to buy a car and be driving around, seeing. The fun part that would be for me to go to places, go to restaurants, go here and there. I didn't have that because I was afraid. Oh, I was in my little apartment, after work, run to the apartment, staying there, like, for two or three years. So that's the part that I think you need to have, you know, preparing yourself.

Yeah. I mean, for me, just the thought, you know, where I live, it's very sunny and hot, usually, so. And I'm a sucker for sun. My last name means sun. Like, I. If I don't get a little bit of sun on my face every day, I'm depressed. So I don't know about you, but, like, you also come from a warmer country, and you came from summer, and it feels like just that alone. Moving into the deep winter of the. Of the Midwest, that's also. That must have had an impact that you didn't even think about.

No, didn't think about it. It's fun at first time. It's kind of fun because although it's snow and it's fluffy, a lot of snow. But then you were like, for. I remember, like, it would start in October and would go until April. It was almost like six months cold. Six months, yeah. It was just like. That's just. I mean, on top of everything being harsh and, you know, when you have to prove yourself. I don't know how I did it, actually.

I mean, you're my hero, Marcelo. You're my hero. Right now. People need to write books about you and other immigrants.

Yes, but there's so many other. There are so many other people going through this. Actually. I saw one guy in influency, I think when he mentioned something about immigration, he put a post saying he was very depressed. He was not talking to anybody, but he had been here only for maybe a couple months or something. So I told him, I put a comment in there saying, well, have you thought about meetups? There are meetups here, like sites that go and meet people for different things, like language or whatever it is, or sport, that at least you have a chance for you to go and meet people, maybe some people, maybe other expats or people like from your country or your own country.

So build a community around you. Surround yourself with a community, even if it's not physical. I think that, like, even being a part of a virtual community, but a strong one, like the influency community or we're in beyond. So, like, I think it's really important to create that for yourself if you're going into a new place. Because to do all that on your own, it's just like way too demanding.

I think it is very demanding. Yeah. But I think. I'm not sure how it is today. I mean, things like the Internet exploded, you know, the media. I'm not sure if that's too easier. I know that, for instance, right now we have people there are how they call nomads, right?

Oh, the digital nomads.

Digital nomads, right. But they travel. It looks like they're on vacation because they're just from country to country. Yeah.

I think it's a different attitude.

That's a different attitude, yes. But if you go as to immigrate, to be part of the other country, to go through the process, I think that's not that fun because you just. You're not traveling all the time. Right. You have to work and you don't have a lot of.

I think digital nomads, they select very international places, places with a lot of foreigners and a lot of travelers and not like cities, deserted cities in the Midwest, you know? Yes, exactly. Okay, so, Marcelo, tell us a little bit about what you do.

Okay. I work in information technology and I work with the mainframe. I'm not sure if you know about this, but mainframes are the IBM computers, like the big ones and everything. I work with those working database. I'm a database analyst or database engineer. And the thing is, my idea when I came to the United States actually was I really want to like, really go deep in my career and learn more stuff. What I noticed when I came here and might be because related to the language and everything, I didn't have a chance to explore everything that I wanted. And then I stayed kind of stuck doing that thing that I kind of knew how to do it. So I think that's the other point, how your career is going to progress. You need to plan for your career. Is that worth going there is your career is going to be better if you do it. So it takes time because you're going to. People don't know how much you are capable of doing stuff. It's going to take time to know you remember you lost your identity, you lost your history, your work track. So you're gonna have to prove yourself. You feel like you have to improve yourself every day. Which to me, in my mind is kind of a mindset you need to get. I had to say something about it today. Forget about this, about this. Forget about having to prove yourself. It's hard to tell someone because that's bad. Like, if you have to prove yourself every day, you're gonna be needing validation daily. How can I work that part of your inner experience if you have to need validation from others all the time?

I think it's important to make that distinction between setting personal goals and getting them to just feel accomplished in comparison to getting other people's approval and permission and validation. And this is why, like, we work so hard to prove ourselves, and then if we don't get that feedback, we feel, you know, like we. We suck or not enough. And I think it's important to distinguish between setting personal goals and trying to achieve them versus, you know, just like working for someone else. And even if it's our boss, right? Like, we don't do things to please them or to get their permission or approval, because if we operate like that, we will never feel satisfied. Because even, like, if this is the reason why we're operating and doing things, then the reasons for us doing them is probably because we don't feel enough. And sometimes when that is the feeling, it doesn't matter what feedback we get, even if it's positive feedback, we'll figure out a way to find the negative in it.

The other thing is of the fear that I probably fear that I got because after three years working a company, I got my green card. So it meant because the green card, I was an H1B visa with work Visa. Work visa is sponsored to you for you to work for that company. So you kind of stuck with that company for that period.

Like a trap.

Yeah, you're trapped. But my green card came in three years. That would be the time for me to really go out running, escaping from the Midwest. My dream was to live really. I had that dream before to live in San Diego. I didn't do it because I think, first of all, there are three things there. First of all, I met my partner that period. But the other thing was, I remember the fear that I had when I moved. I think, oh, my gosh, I'm going to have to go through that again. And then Naigo kind of was fearing to go because I was used to living there in the Midwest at the.

Time, you didn't take into consideration that you are more resilient because you've gone through it once. So you had the capacity and the ability to manage it in a different way. But I totally understand, like, it was a trauma. It was a traumatic experience.

Yeah. And then I had my partner, so I got mad after, like three years. So it felt better. I felt like home because I had a lot of friends. And then I got to met people. It was better for me, for sure, but I still somehow got trapped in a place that I hadn't really. I hadn't chosen to be the city I'd like to live right. Because I didn't go to Des Moines because I wanted. They told me, you go to Des Moines. So I couldn't choose which place. But in the end, I really end up liking Des Moines. It's just like. It's a small town, was kind of cool, and they had restaurants here and there. I got used to the winter and everything. And it's funny how people can get used to stuff.

We're very adaptable. We're adaptable creatures. We'll find a way to make the best out of every situation that you end up putting us in, you know? And this is, like, this is great because everything that changes around you, we figure out a way to live with it pretty quickly. And this is why it's like, even now, your experience is okay. It was a tough experience, but I still have some positive feelings towards that, you know?

Yeah. I think I became a survivor. I message a survivor, and I got that to myself.

You're using tough language here. Trap, survivor, trauma. I'm just pointing out, you know, that's true.

I am a survivor. And I think that if you go to another country, you know, the experience. But I think in your point of view, because you're in New York, it's the biggest city. I mean, I think it's a little bit more diversity. But when you go to another country, it's gonna be everything different you need to think about. You're gonna go basically to the war. It won't. You know what I mean? It's gonna be like everything about yourself is gonna be tested, and you better be prepared. Of course, everybody end up learning in one way or another. But if I could prepare myself all those things, those pillars, I may experience much better. And that means I have enjoyed much more. Because there's the enjoyable part of living in another country, because you're living at new culture, all that kind of stuff. I had visited the United States three years before I moved here. I went to San Francisco for English course. Two weeks in San Francisco, two weeks in New York, like two different places. So it was completely. I really liked it. It was really fun. But zone for two weeks, basically, I was going just for vacation. But you're gonna go for a living. I don't know. I'm not sure what people think about it today.

Yeah. So first of all, you're totally scaring them right now. So just like, reorganize the whole or refocus frame the whole thing. Marcelo, looking back where you are today, are you happy that you made that decision to immigrate?

Definitely. I definitely had to move to the United States as a person, and everything ends up, you know, really to express myself as a person. I am a gay man. So I came into this country, I was able to come out and be myself right away. Wow. So that's. I mean, very important to me. As if I had to stay there in Brazil, I probably. I don't know if I'm sure what happened, but here, there was this part that was being myself, and it was very easy to do that. Even in the morning. Even in the morning.

It's so interesting because, like, on one hand, you're telling me I had to leave my identity right behind, yet it's kind of like you're tapping into or creating a new identity. So there are, like, all the hardships around that and then. But at the same time, there is freedom in it.

There is freedom. There was freedom. Yes. I think that's right. I was not. I didn't have the experience of being a gay man in Brazil, but I was able to do that here. And Moyni was actually in. Iowa was the first state, I think one of the first states in the United States that accepted gay marriage, that allowed gay marriage. I'm not married, but I have my partner from that time, but we are still together. We're not married, but I liked the idea that I had that. So at the same time, I mean, you cannot say those people are mean or anything. It's just like. It's very confusing. Are they just fearing people from outside when they get to know you? It's. You know what I mean? They. They will hug you. It's nice.

When I moved in, like, what my experience, you know, Israel is a very Israeli culture is very intimate. Like, there is, like, no personal space. We're in each other's lives. Right. We're in your face, in your life, for better or for worse. Right. And the connections within the family is really powerful. And we see, say what we think, we're very straightforward. And when I moved to the US So the interesting thing for me was actually, like, when I moved at the age of 21, for me, I actually wanted to leave everything behind. I wanted to start fresh I wanted to leave my identity. So I joyfully immersed myself completely letting go of any identity traces that I've had. So I completely surrendered to that new culture. But I have to say, if now, like, that's.

I.

That would never happen to me right now because for me, like, I'm very kind of, like, I feel a lot more centered in where I am, like, culturally and, you know, identity wise. But I think that, like, there's something about American culture that for me was very indirect. I know that for you it was kind of like more straightforward and direct, but for me it was like very indirect. The connections were different. Like, the level in which you connect with people is different. And it takes a little longer to have that really, really strong bond. I ended up having very good friends who are Americans, but I ended up also really connecting with all the, you know, the foreigners, you know, like the Canadians and the Brazilians and the Europeans. And like, like, I ended up having stronger relationships with. And I think it had to do with the type of culture that we shared. I want to talk about something that came up in one of our coaching sessions. So Marcela was a new sound member one of my programs, and in the program we have coaching sessions and there was one session where we talked about English. Like the struggles of communicating in English in a different place, in a different culture, but also experiencing microaggressions and micro inequalities. Being a non native speaker and being also an immigrant. An immigrant or foreigner, you know, the way they see us. So can you talk to that a little bit?

Yeah, I think microaggression is probably the best word for this because I really. I don't remember having any racism act towards me. Never happened. But microaggression for sure, like hearing overhearing people saying, oh, does he have any skills? But somebody else also defended me. Yes, he does. You know, like, things like that.

Like, would you define microaggression for those who don't know this term?

Microaggression to me at least is like those things that you don't know if people are really attacking you. It's like some kind of a joke or something they say as nonchalant, just saying that. But after like maybe a minute, you say, oh, I think he. That person offended me. But then it's past the time. You cannot go back. But the trauma stayed there with you. That's the problem, the trauma. Because imagine that happening several times or in different places. When you go buy something, when you go for lunch, somebody say something to you. Or I remember going to the mall and then waiting for the bus. And this lady said, she started talking to me then she said, do you speak English? Were you talking this before? Why are you asking me?

It's just like such a condescending question.

Microaggression here and there, it's just. Yeah, so. And that's the part to me that is very important to have your self worth because you need to be prepared for when that happens to you. You need to establish boundaries. And right away you're going to confront those people, you're going to ask them what they're doing or you can just turn that off and don't care about them, turn around and leave them talk to themselves. So that's very important to have that and it's very healthy. I mean it makes it fun because you're not afraid to go into interactions and to connect with the people because they won't be able to do anything to you. You're an adult right now, so you can take care of yourself and that's the best thing to know.

That's just perfect. And I think that what you said, really, I'm sure that a lot of people have experienced the same thing and they couldn't put it in words. And I think that by you defining it and being, you know, and saying this is something that I struggled with and that really kind of like freaked, you know, really confused me because they think that experience of like that's microaggression, that you're like, you freeze when that happens. Because it's not overt racism or discrimination. Right. Like something's happening but you freeze. I experienced that a few times too. And I'm like, okay. And you shut down. And then after there was like this rage or anger is like, who do they think they are? Or why am I feeling this way? Or you know, you start rationalizing it too. Oh, she was just trying to be nice. Oh, she just. He doesn't really know or he doesn't. He didn't mean to look like he's scared around me. I just interpret it. So you start psyching yourself out with, you know, reinterpreting what actually happened when in fact, yes, this is something legit that is happening that we need to know how to manage those situations. And in fact, in a few weeks I'm going to bring over a guest experts who would give us tools to manage these situations. And I think that's going to be extremely valuable.

I agree with you. I also was really great for me, I mean I, as a person, as a working My inner strength. That was really fantastic.

And I think investing in ourselves and our personal growth and our mindset is probably the best thing we could do when making any big change. Like immigrating, for example.

Exactly. Yes, I agree with you.

So, Marcelo, before we wrap up, why don't you tell us a little bit about your plans for the upcoming year. Living in the States.

So after doing a new sound was a huge change to me in terms of communication and now doing beyond, I am able to go live and talk to people. I'm not afraid. It doesn't matter how many people we have in a zoom meeting or even in real life, if I have to, I going to be able to talk. I'm not afraid to do that anymore. I don't think I could do that in the past, but in the future, I still, I want to learn a lot of things, but one thing that I also learned to do is I want to learn things without the pressure that I have to use that or I need to use that for money. So I am a very curious guy. I want to learn a lot of things, and I don't know, maybe in the future, who knows, I can even decide to open my own business, and I'll be happy to do that. If that's for me, I want to do it. So I'm really happy now. I'm looking forward for the future and I'm learning day by day, learning more. I think we will learn, I mean, until the end of our lives. And that make us more alive.

And, you know, I feel like in a way your calling is to teach and give back. And, you know, like when you said open your business online. Yes, because he has a lot of so many things to offer. Because I see how you. Your contribution to our free community, the influencing community and beyond, you always offer a piece of advice or coaching or support, and I think that these little things, they really change lives. And since that's already in you, I can definitely see how you can leverage that and turn it into your life's business. So sounds like an amazing plan. All right, Marcelo, thank you so much for spending this time with us and sharing with us your story. It was so meaningful, and I'm sure that so many people took a lot of insights and encouragement to make that change and do the things that will make it seamless and safe for them. So thank you so much.

Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you for having me here. Kadar, thank you.

A real pleasure. I could have continued this conversation for another hour at least. All right. Thank you with good Internet. Exactly.

All right.

Thank you so much for watching. I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I did. And Marcelo, thank you so much for being so open. Open and vulnerable and sharing with us your story. If you like this episode, consider liking and subscribing to this channel or the podcast wherever you're listening to this interview. And I'm inviting you to share with us your thoughts about this episode in the comments. Or just send me a DM on Instagram Hadar Accentsway. Thank you so, so much for being here and I'll see you next week in the next video. Bye.