Improve Your Writing in English | Interview with Fabio Cerpelloni

How would you like to improve your writing in English? In today's episode, we're going to talk about that and about a whole bunch of other things in a conversation with Fabio Ciarpaloni. Fabio is an English teacher, an English learner. He teaches writing. He's a blogger and podcaster, and he is also an author and author of the book how to learn any language you want. Today we're going to talk about learning a language and also the conflicting lessons that he teaches inside his book. It's going to be really, really interesting, but also he's going to give you some tips and strategies on how to improve your writing. If this is something you're interested in, I am really happy to share with you this conversation with Fabio. So let's go ahead and listen to today's episode. Hello. Hello, Fabio. How are you doing today?

Hello, Adar. I'm doing very well. Thank you for having me on your show. It's great to be here.

Thank you for coming. I'm super excited about this conversation and I cannot wait to get started. So for those who do not know you, why don't you. I've already introduced you at the beginning, but I'd like to hear from you. How do you talk about what you do? How do you usually introduce yourself to people when they ask you, hey, Fabio, what do you do?

This is something I need to work on because I still don't have a clear idea of on about how to introduce myself. But I generally say I'm a non native English speaker and I was a learner of English who fell in love with English and then I started teaching it and I then fell in love with writing. And now I'm into writing and I'm a writer. This is. And I help non native English writers. This is the best way to put it. At this moment, you know, at this stage of my life, I see a pattern.

You like, you get passionate about something, you become an expert in it, and then you teach it. You've done it with speaking a second language and then teaching writing. Is that, is that accurate?

In a way it is accurate. It's not what always happens. It happened with English. Well, it actually happened with playing the drums because I fell in love with playing the drums 15 years ago and I became quite good at that for three years. But yeah, normally I get into one thing and to me, I want to do that thing very well. So when I fell in love with English, I didn't want to just speak it and, you know, just to be understood. No, I wanted to, you know, master it. That was my. That was my goal. And then when I became a teacher, I thought, no, I want to become a great teacher. Not just, you know, teaching, because I need money. Yeah.

Yeah.

So it is, it is a feature of my, of how I approach things.

I think it's a very natural process. First of all, it has been the same for me as well. You know, I've done it with, with English, I've done it with teaching pronunciation. I've done it with business because I have had a program in the past for teaching teachers how to build a business. I think that when you get really passionate about something and you become good at it and you feel compelled to share it with others and share your journey, and I also think that even specifically for non native speakers, that's kind of like the. The essence of owning a language, being able to teach it. Wouldn't you say that?

Yeah, absolutely. I learned quite a lot about English when I started teaching it as well. And I think that if you can teach something well, there is a saying that it goes like, you cannot really say you. You've understood something until you can teach it. Something like this.

But that's really good.

Yeah, Sometimes I have, you know, I still get questions and I have no idea. So you're forced to do some research. And this is how I keep learning. I mean, teaching keeps you learning as well, if you like it.

So how would you define the difference between just knowing a topic really well and being able to teach it? What needs to change in your head for you to be able to teach it?

Well, you need to get out of your head, I guess, because if I think about all the teachers, okay, most of the teachers that I had in high school, most of them were very, like, they knew a lot about their subjects. So my history teacher knew a lot about his subject, but I think he wasn't a very good history teacher because his lessons were so boring. Like, very boring. Not engaging enough. I mean, not engaging at all in. And all it did was just speaking to us about history. And I don't think that's. I mean, I'm not a history teacher, but I don't think that's the best way to teach history, to generate interest in history. So. Well, some training can help. I would say, how do you teach history or how do you teach English.

And what makes a good English teacher in that sense? How do you do it and what makes you good?

Building a relationship is fundamental. Building rapport with the students that you teach. Whatever you're teaching, whether English, or if it's English or something, you know, something different, and then knowing the subject and then putting yourself, seeing the person in front of you. This comes from you, actually from the interview that we did, seeing the person in front of you. So can you feel what they feel? Can you see when they get stuck and how do you help them? I think you don't need to have big qualifications for this. Maybe some people are naturally good at this. They naturally have not a talent, but a natural inclination to working with other people and helping them. It's all about relationship. Like it's human interaction at the end of the day.

And would you say that each person has their own way of learning English or is there like one universal best way?

There is one best way, and it's my way, right? Come to my website and you'll find out. No, of course not.

Click the link below and check out the best way and the ultimate way to learn a language.

Best method. No, of course not. No. Learning is highly personal. Learning English, learning anything is highly personal. I recently discovered that I don't really like video courses because, I don't know, it's just not the way I like learning. Like sitting and going through the units of a video course. That's not, that's not for me. But maybe, you know, I haven't experimented enough.

So how do you like to learn?

I like reading a lot and I like listening. So podcasts for me, one of the best ways. And this is how I learned English, by the way. It's how I improved my grammar. I improved my grammar by listening to what people were saying around me and really questioning, like, is this correct? Why did he say that? Why did he not say another thing? Can I also say this? So all this mental work that I did in my mind was really helpful for me. Books, reading books. I love reading books. And this is another way, like long form content for me, I think it's. It really helps.

I love that. And it's so different. Like, for me, reading is a big no, no, right? Like, I can't learn something through reading. I'm also an auditory learner, so I like to hear it. And maybe videos like that would work for me, but definitely listening to something would enhance it. Maybe listening and reading at the same time, but simply reading. Definitely not. And also something, you know, just how you talked about your journey, learning English, you know, so you said a. There is like an individual way that is better for specific people, right? So each person has their own best way of learning, which you actually wrote a book about it, which we're going to talk about in a second. But what you're saying here is that people, I'm reading between the lines and I'm hearing people need to take serious ownership over their journey. So like you said that in. Okay, you have to figure out how you learn best. But also you got to question what you hear. And not just, you know, kind of like receive the content and regurgitate it, just repeat it without thinking about it. But you got to challenge it and ask, why is this different? Why is it like that? So there is like a lot of active work that you did as a learner, which is bad news for our listeners because it means that you got to work hard when you're doing this kind of work. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Yeah, for sure. I think I like saying that the best way to learn is to question every learning tip that you get. So, for example, I always bring this example on YouTube. There are many teachers that say they will tell you the best way to learn a language. And maybe I'm one of those teachers. You may be one of those teachers. But for example, if they say there is this common tip that teachers give and I have given it myself, stop studying grammar. You know, forget about grammar. It's too, you know, language is not just grammar, languages communication. And that's true. But my girlfriend, for example, my partner, Aloha. I've been with my partner for 11 years and we were in New Zealand. We lived in Australia and New Zealand. She has an advanced level of English. I would say C1. Okay. She learnt English by working with Australians and working on Australian farms and in the kitchen in Auckland, New Zealand, working with native speakers. She has this advanced level of English, but she knows she makes mistakes. And the thing is, she doesn't know why she makes mistakes. So she says, I know when I'm saying this thing, I know that there is a mistake there, but I wouldn't know how to correct it. I don't know how this works. So if you are in that situation, like, is it okay to stop studying grammar? I think for my partner, if she wants to improve her English further, then she then needs to get a grammar book or watch YouTube videos about grammar and start learning grammar, like explicitly, this is how she will improve. But if she hears, don't worry, if you want to improve your English, you need to stop studying grammar. Keep talking. Maybe not. And this is why every tip, every tip that you hear, every tip that people give you, you really need to, I believe that you need to question it and see if that works for you. And when I say these things, I mean, it's nothing like it's obvious in a way because it's not anything new. But it's just, you know, especially when you're frustrated that you see no improvement. And so you think, what am I, Am I doing this the right way or not? So you want more tips? More tips, more tips you keep. You read so many articles, you watch so many videos, but you're not actually doing the thing. You're just getting tips. Well, question those tips and maybe try one and see if it works. If it doesn't work, try another one and keep experimenting. That's key to learning anything, not just English.

Yeah, I always say, like, first of all, don't get stuck in the illusion of learning, of just like getting all those tips and lessons and without putting it into practice and also without. Without seeing that it actually, it's like it's your 20%. It's actually what you need right now. Because yes, for some people, learning grammar would just be overwhelming and confusing and would just prevent them from speaking. For others, without the grammar, they would feel completely crippled. They won't be able to speak because they need the structure and they're analytical and they need it. I'm now studying Spanish and I love learning grammar, even though when I teach English I don't focus on grammar. But it really is so very individual. So now I actually want to talk about your book, Any Language youe want, which teaches 18 conflicting lessons for language learners. So tell me a little bit about this book and what got you to write it and what does it mean? Conflicting lessons?

Okay. I read a book in 2021 called Anything youg Want by an American author called Derek Sivers. And in this book, Anything youg Want, the subtitle was 40 Lessons for a New Kind of Entrepreneur. It was a business book. And in this book, Derek Sivers talks about. He tells stories, very short stories, very short book, 40 stories that where he tells you what it did to start a multi million business. What he did to start it, what he did to grow the business and how then he sold the business. And it's a fantastic book. I think it's one of the best business books I've ever read because it's very. It's all about storytelling. So it tells you stories and it leaves you like, it gives you a message. Every story leaves a message to the reader. And I loved that book and I thought, okay, I could write a similar book about how I learned English I have so many stories to tell, but I. I never got down to. To do that, to doing that. And then I read another book by Derek Sivers called How to Live. The subtitle, it's here, 27 conflicting answers and one weird conclusion. And in that book, again, Derek Sievers, he doesn't tell stories. Every chapter tells you the best way to live your life, but each chapter disagrees with the next. So in one chapter, he says, the best way to live your life is to travel the world, discover, learn other cultures, learn about other cultures, and this is the best way to live. Every chapter ends with, this is the best way to live, or this is how to live, but the next chapter tells you the opposite. So he says, the best way to live is to commit to one single place. Never leave your hometown. Discover everything about your hometown, your country, your culture, because this is how you will discover yourself. So I love this. Exactly what do you choose? Well, you need to read the book because there's that weird conclusion there. So I won't spoil the book. And I thought, okay, I can write the same book, how to learn English, where in each chapter, I don't tell stories. I can just give you tips, do this, do that, because this is how to live works, but each chapter disagrees with the next. I started, right, Well, I emailed Derek Sivers, and I thought, I told them, do you think that the format that you used for your book can also apply, can be applied to a book about language learning? And he said, well, yes, I think you should do that. And I did it. I started writing how to learn English with this format, do this, do that. But it all felt too. It was boring to write because I couldn't tell stories. It was just, you know, imperatives, tips. It wasn't fun to write. And then I didn't. I didn't write it. One day, I was running. I go running most. Most days. And I came up with an idea. Like, an idea came to me. I don't know where, but I thought, okay, I know. I know the book that I could write. I will write a book where each chapter, in each chapter, I tell a story about what I did to learn English. Like, anything you want. 40 lessons for a new kind of entrepreneur. But each chapter disagrees with the next to show you that there's no one right way. And so the subtitle, now, I mean, the full title is any language you want. 18 conflicting lessons for a new kind of language learner. That's. That's how I got the inspiration yeah, sorry, sorry.

No, no, no. It's so fascinating how you got to do it. And I love the fact that you got inspired by one thing and you kind of, like, brought it into your world. This is really what I love doing, like seeing how we connect different disciplines and methods and bring it into English teaching. Because, you know, like, the way we learn languages does change. What is your favorite. What was your favorite chapter to write? What was your favorite conflicting lesson to write?

Well, I would say. Let me see. Let me just have a quick look at the chapters. I would say the first one, invest in a new life in language classes. Because this is what I did in London and this was the. The very first chapter I started writing and I was very excited. And then I loved writing the accept there's no blueprint. This is in the middle. The chapters are not numbered here. Well, that's a mistake. But that chapter really tells you the core message of the book.

That there is no blueprint.

There's no blueprint.

You have the freedom. But also it means that you need to do a little bit of work and explore the different options. So you don't follow just what you were taught when you were in fifth grade, and then you stay with it for the rest of your life thinking that this is how you're supposed to learn a language.

Because we want instructions, you know, I think we want to know what's the next step? Who can tell me what's the next step? What steps should I take now? But, well, it's very hard unless you work one to one with a coach that, you know, they're there all the time helping you, and they help you find out, you know, solutions to your problems. But I'm thinking now that one way to coach yourself is to write in a journal. Write, question your answers. And because this is something that I learned from this author, from Derek Sievers, like journaling and questioning your beliefs. I love this idea of coaching yourself. Like, what should I do now to improve my pronunciation, for example. Right.

Yeah, I think, I think you need, like, the best way to change your life and live the life you want is really to get the tools to coach yourself, whether it's in English or do for you to do thought, work, anything really, like build your career, business relationships. Yeah, you have to. You have to get tools. And there are a lot of free tools online to coach yourself and understand how you can improve. Because not everyone has access to a coach, a language coach, a life coach. And I think we can do it on our own, and we should Because I've learned so much simply by free content that was online and books, and I was able to implement so much of that. Speaking of writing, because you wrote the book and you spoke about journaling and writing, you recently started teaching non native speakers to improve their writing in English. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, I write. I have a blog that I started in 2021 and I write on Medium. Medium is a free blogging platform where anyone can write anything. And I really got into writing because I feel it's one of the best way I can express myself. Like I have a YouTube channel where I talk, but really sitting down and sitting at my desk and writing something, writing something that I feel could be useful for a person that really, I don't know, it excites me and it's something that I want to do like every day. I want to do it every day. So there are many language teachers who teach speaking and I feel that teaching speaking, I mean, I've done it for, for many years. But to be honest, I'm tired of it. I'm tired of teaching, speaking of, you know, correcting spoken mistakes. So I thought, I love writing. It's the best way to express myself. And you don't need to if you want to improve your writing. You don't need really to take many classes, to join ZOOM meetings. You can write every day in your home and you can improve. So why am I saying this? It's because I find that many people would love to write, but they feel they're not good writers. Because I felt the same way. I felt I was not a good writer until I got feedback and someone said, well, I love your writing. I love this story. Thank you for writing this story. And you know, my ego really liked that. So I thought, okay, actually I can write well. Even native English speakers, they said, we love. I mean, I love your writing because it's clear, it's simple. I don't use big words because I don't know big words. Still, my English is, I mean, okay, I'm good at English, but I'm not, you know, if I had to write a piece for the BBC News, I would struggle big time to do that. So I decided to try to experiment with my business because it's all about being creative. And I decided to teach writing and I've done it. I've started fairly recently and it's something that I want to continue doing. I've opened a little place on medium, a medium publication where non native English writers can publish their stories. Because many writers Believe that. You know, I don't want to publish a piece that's full of mistakes. Of course you don't want to do that. But it's like speaking. If you never make a mistake, if you're never willing to make a mistake in a conversation, well, then you will always be the one who never says anything. So you're not writing for a major publication where everything must be perfect. You're writing on a blog and you can expect, you can practice publishing your writing. This is something that I always encourage.

So you would recommend for people to just start writing. You know, that would be a good way to improve. But what else can people do to improve their writing?

I can tell you what worked for me. And reading, of course. Reading things that you can understand, reading things that you enjoy reading, books, articles, blog posts, anything that you enjoy reading. That helped me a lot as a, as a writer to improve my writing, to improve my sentence structure. So reading plays a big role.

Do you do something active with it, like, or just reading in general and then that is supposed to help you with your writing, or do you have like, a specific strategy, how to take something that you read and make sure that you implement it in your writing?

Yeah, yeah, that's a very good question. I do both. I think that most of how I improve my writing has come from reading extensively. So it happened. It happens subconsciously, in a way. But I also analyze things so I pay attention to how the writer. I do this not as often as I read extensively without paying focused attention to something. But sometimes I stop and I question, wow, I love this sentence. Why do I love it? What makes me love this paragraph is again, questioning things. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I actually wrote an article on a paragraph that I found in a book, and I analyzed all the eight sentences in that paragraph and I did a YouTube video where I explained everything, why I love that paragraph so much. So some analytical work can also help. So reading, analyzing writing. Because you know you'll never improve if you don't write improving. You know, many people, they struggle with grammar, they struggle with, with grammar, with vocabulary. And what, what can you do to improve your grammar and vocabulary? Well, study grammar and vocabulary. There's no, like, it's not any. There are no magic solutions. So I remember when I was a student, I loved doing Grammar Gap Fills, those exercises, you know, the English grammar in use. I finished all those books and that helped me a lot improve my grammar. Getting feedback, of course.

What's your opinion about getting feedback from AI like ChatGPT or other tools to that, you know, like any writing assistant that you can add to your word processor.

Okay, well, I'm writing a master's dissertation on how to use ChatGPT to improve your writing. So I can tell you that I'm working with nine non native English writers. And the experiment was basically this is. What do you think about ChatGPT? They told me what they thought about it, and then I gave them a writing task. I gave them some guidelines on how to use ChatGPT. They wrote a piece without ChatGPT. And then I said, here are some guidelines. Here are some prompts that you can use to improve your writing. To improve your piece. Not your writing, your piece, your draft. And send me the second draft. Send me the draft that you wrote by asking for help. Asking ChatGPT for help.

For specific help.

Specific help, yes. And I think it's a wonderful tool. I think it's a wonderful tool for micro editing. Like here is a sentence that I wrote. Can I use a different word here instead? This instead of that? And ChatGPT will give you. Okay, yes. These are some words that you can use. So for micro editing, or like, do I need a punctual? Do I need a comma in this sentence? And if so, why do I need a comma? For those kind of little tasks, micro editing tasks. I think it's, it's great. And most of the, the, the participants in my study, they, they loved it. I'm still analyzing the results.

Second round. Okay, so the second you say that the second round was better from your perspective.

I still haven't analyzed the second draft. I'm now analyzing the conversations that they had with ChatGPT. But overall, I can tell you that most of them were very impressed by what, how they can use ChatGPT as a writing assistant. I'm not talking about, hello, ChatGPT. I want to write a blog post about learning English. Please write this for me. Copy paste. And then you publish that. Or even ChatGPT gives you the thing, the text, and then you edit the text. That's not writing. That's just editing what a robot told you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I, when I, I love using ChatGPT for my work, but not to write, but really as a resource. Because I would never like when you ask it to write certain things like a blog post or an email, it's never, it never sounds like you. Now, it's a good tool for someone maybe at work and you need to postpone a meeting and you don't know exactly how to say it. Yes, sure, you. It can save you time as long as you use it to learn from it and to remember it for next time. But definitely, like what you said about micro editing, that's great, like typos and grammar mistakes and stuff like that. But I would be careful with revisions. And like, even if you were to write something and have it revise it, then it totally changes your tone. It already sounds like chatgpt, so I think it's like you have. When you use it, it's really important to use the right prompts, which is good. Which is exactly what you're saying. And I agree.

It. Yeah, it's a tool. It's just a tool. And like I always say, a tool is a tool. Like, is a gun a good tool or a bad tool?

Right.

So it depends if you are. If you are in. In the woods and a bear is there and you're about to be attacked by a bear, well, a gun is a fantastic tool because you're going to kill the bear and you're going to live. But if you're using a gun to kill another person because he upsets you, well, then, no, it's not a good tool. It depends on the use that you, you know. Yeah, yeah. Depends on how you use it.

Do you think there is a difference between how you write in English and how you write in Italian, your first language?

Yes. And I'm sad to. I mean, I'm not very proud to say that I really. I forgot how to write in Italian. Not that I forgot how to write in Italian, but I use, for example, the same punctuation in Italian, the same punctuation that I use in English. I use it in Italian and I don't know if it's correct or not. I don't remember some of the rules because I only write WhatsApp messages in Italian. All the teaching training courses that I. All the writing that I had to do for the teaching training courses were in English. The emails that I send, most of them, I would say 95% of them are in English. I have a newsletter in English, posts that I like. Even my mom, she said, you should have written this book in Italian so I could have read it. And I thought, yes, but the audience was not Italians. It was the world. Very niche.

Sweet mom. She wants to be a part of your world.

Yeah. She can use Google Translate for now.

Have ChatGPT translated. Yeah, exactly. Fabio, that is amazing. So, like, your journey is really, really interesting and inspiring how, like, out of curiosity and love for the language, you got to not Only, you know, master the language speaking, but now also writing and being able to provide those tools to other people. Before we wrap up, tell me, what are your best pieces of advice for people wanting to improve their speaking and writing? So we did talk about, we talked about reading a lot. We talked about finding their own path and questioning things. But is there something that we missed maybe, or that you are like, yeah, you should definitely do that to improve your speaking or writing and. Or writing.

Yeah, I would say the best, the best tip that I can give you, apart from questioning every tip, so I'll question this one as well. It comes from your mindset. So if you believe that you cannot be a good speaker, that you can, you will always be some one step below a native English speaker or writer. If you believe that you will always make mistakes and that will frustrate you, well, then that's what you will be. That's the person who. So you believe those stories and that's how you become that you, you are what you believe. Right? So if you change your mindset and you say, okay, I could be a great writer, I could be a fantastic writer, fantastic English speaker or whatever, and you start believing that story instead of the other one, things will change. That's, that's the best thing that I can say. But question it because maybe it's not. Doesn't work for you.

I would say don't question it. Mindset is the foundation for everything because it's how you think and how you create things. So I agree with you 100%. Naturally, it's not for everyone. But also I think where your focus goes like, this is where you put your effort. And if you think about something like, I'm a bad writer, obviously it's not going to lead you to writing a whole bunch of things, you know, and as a result, not, not progressing and improving. So thank you so much for that. Fabio. Where can people find you and get your book and follow you?

Yeah.

Read your blog.

Go to my website, Fabio cierpeloni.com c e r double l c e r p e double l o n I and it's all there. There's my blog, there's my writing portfolio, my YouTube channel. And send me an email. Go to the Contact tab and send me an email to introduce yourself and wait for my reply.

That's, that's, that's a great. Yeah. And you can practice your writing by emailing Abio. This is good. And we're going to put all the links and the relevant linked in the description as well, so people can get to you. Fabio, thank you so much for sharing with us your journey. It has been really, really interesting and inspiring to see. And if you guys want to read it, any language you want, then it's going to be on Fabio's website. Thank you so, so much.

Thank you. Dar. I admire your work and what you do for many people who want to learn English around the world. It's very inspiring, and you are one of the very few teachers I agree with. So keep going. Yeah. Thank you.

I'll take it as a compliment. Thank you. Something that is not conflicting. Thank you so, so much. It's a privilege and an honor. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Bye, Adar.

Bye, Fabio.