The Power of Storytelling with Sun Yi | The Live English Show

Foreign.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the live English show. So good to have you here. I see that some people have been waiting. Hello. Hello. Welcome. Christian is here. Ronaldo is here.

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As you're joining in, say hi in the comments and tell me where you're from. You know, I. I like to know where you're from. Okay. We have such an exciting episode for you today, and I can't wait to get started. But I'm going to give it a few more minutes for everyone to join in. Hey, Estreval. So good to see you.

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Okay. Alejandro, you're coming back. That's so good to see you, Alejandro. Okay, cool. Amar is here. I see everyone joining. Very good. Okay, so before we even begin and before I bring on our incredible guest today, Sanji, let me know in the comments. What does storytelling mean to you? Right? Like, if you use it in your own life, like, or what does it mean when you hear storytelling? For years, whenever I heard storytelling, I had that fear that I'm like, I don't know how to do it right. Like, I have beliefs about what I can and cannot do when it comes to storytelling. But I figured out it's. It's a lot more. It's a lot more interesting and simple than, like, we perceive it to be, especially when we think about how people use it in businesses and especially when communicating. And you're probably thinking, okay, what do I need storytelling for? I'm only learning English. Or I first need to figure out how to use my words before I start telling stories. So just for you to understand that the conversation today is going to help you understand how to feel more authentic and how to show up authentically in your life and. And on social media, right? Like, if you have even. Especially if you have a business, like, what you can do and how you can use storytelling and use the language in a way that empowers you and you don't feel intimidated. And a lot of times when we think about storytelling, we think that we have to go, like, really crazy with all these stories and to go deep. And sometimes the simpler you are, the better it is. And this is exactly what we're going to talk about today. Okay? Erlang is here. Hello, Laura. Rosie. Hey. Okay, I have a regular viewer from Israel, but I don't know your name, so. Hi, and thank you for being here. Okay, so let's not wait any longer because I do have a lot to talk about with our new guest today. So let's welcome Sun Yi, a storyteller. He has a Branding agency. He works with the most incredible people. And he's going to talk about that today. So let's bring him on. Welcome, Sun Yee. Yay.

Hey, everyone.

How are you doing, Sun?

Good, good. How are you?

Can you hear me? Wait, I can't hear you.

You can't hear me?

So you can. In the meantime, you can introduce yourself and I'll be like, I'll just figure it out. Sure as I'm going.

Yeah. So, hi, everyone. My name is Son. I own a digital branding agency in New York City. I work with a lot of personal brands like Gabby Bernstein, Mel Robbins, Jay Shetty. We primarily do websites and also brand messaging. So we help our clients, mostly personal brands, tell their story. A lot of them have kind of a great story, but not. They're not really good at, like, kind of organizing and delivering it in a simple way that people can resonate with. So that's kind of what I help them with. And I also have an Instagram account where I kind of teach about storytelling. I talk about being authentic in your storytelling, and that's about it.

Because, you know, a lot of the audience watching this are people who are, you know, one of their biggest things that they deal with is how to, you know, how to find the balance between who you are in your native language and who you are as a sec. As a speaker, as a second language, and that ideal that people place. And, you know, I shared a video on Instagram the other day about you speaking like people are trying to sound like everyone else. There is like, that the group of people, the predominant group of people who have a certain voice, and then we try to assimilate so we are not perceived as different. So I. I'd love for you to talk about that a little bit if. In case you haven't just yet.

Yeah, no, I haven't. So a lot of people actually tell me that I have like this Korean LA accent, which I'm. I don't hear it myself because I. I feel like I just sound like everyone else. But, yeah, people can. When I talk to people, they can definitely tell that I have an accent, even though, like, now English is kind of like my first language. English was my second language when I first moved here. But.

And when did you. When was that?

So I moved here when I was 11 years old. So I was young, so I learned pretty quickly. But I had a really. I had a really thick Korean accent all the way up until I went to college. And when I was in college, I didn't my. Most of my Friends in high school and junior high were Korean, so I spoke a lot of Korean. But when I went to college, there were no Koreans there, so I pretty much just spoke English. And that's. I guess I lost some of the accent there. But, I mean, I think all throughout my life, I always, like, try to imitate people. Like, if I see a celebrity that I like, I'll, like, practice talking like them. Or, like, if there's some cool guy in the. In school that I think talks cool, I'll try to sound like them.

And yeah, so I'm gonna. I love that because sometimes I feel like when I don't do it intentionally, right? Like, sometimes if I listen to the same person, sometimes I get obsessed with a certain speaker, right? So I would listen to a bunch of podcasts that they have or shows, and all of a sudden I would be speaking, I'd be like, wait, I sound. That intonation pattern. I think it's even subconscious. Like, you don't even think about it, and all of a sudden you start sounding like them.

Yeah, Yeah, I do that too, I guess, because you just kind of admire them, and I guess it just naturally happens. And I think all the way up Until I was 30 years old, I was like that. That was like 10 years ago. And, you know, at a certain point, you stop caring. You start caring about how you sound, how you look, and all of that. So I just started, like, talking myself. And now I feel like, you know, when I make a lot of videos and I have a podcast and people always tell me now they're like, like, son, I love the way you talk, or something like that. It's so unique. But I don't. I don't know that I'm just talking like me, right? I don't know. I'm not. And I'm sure it's like a combination of a lot of different people that I. A lot of different people that kind of, you know, inspire me or something over the time, over the years.

Right.

But.

And how do you think generally about the fact that people need to label you or categorize you the moment they hear you speak? Like, I think that, like, oh, okay. So I know that because I feel that especially when I first moved to the US And I had a more present non native accent, Israeli accent, people would always have that need to be like, wait, are you from here? Are you from there? Like, to place you somewhere, because it kind of like it doesn't fit. Did that ever bother you? Or how do you.

How do you. Yeah, so they still do it now because, I mean, I mean, with you, they, they might look at you and be like, oh, if you don't have an accent, they might think you're just from American. But with me, it's kind of obvious that I'm not American. So it. I.

You are American. You know, like, that's the thing also. It's just, you know, even the self identification. But yeah, I get what you mean. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, that's what they do. Right? They're like, where are you from? You know, like, if I say I'm Korean, they'll, you know, they'll say something, oh, I love kimchi or I love Korean barbecue or something. Something like that. And that used to be bother. That used to bother me because, you know, because it's like they're, they're, they're kind of jumping to a conclusion or, you know, something about me that they don't know because I'm actually really very American now. I don't eat a lot of Korean food, but over time I kind of noticed that, like, they do it because they want to connect. They're not doing it to offend me or anything like that they want to do. They're doing it because they, they want to be relatable and they're being friendly. So now it doesn't really bother me anymore.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's like a good topic for conversation. However, I think, like, you know, that's the best approach. But sometimes people find it as if it's some sort of, like, criticism against their. Maybe their English is not good enough or like it's a statement. Oh, you don't sound like us. So, you know, like, whereas I agree with you, in many cases, it's just another way. It's like, you know, talking about your shoes or talking about the weather. But at the same time, you know, like you said, sometimes it is, you know, it feels a little like, like intrusive or it puts you in a certain place that you don't want to be because, like, you know, I'm. I was born here. I have, you know, I know of many people who were born in the US they just grew up in a family that spoke a different language. So, you know, like they, they, they picked up on different sounds or they had something. And then they keep getting asked in their own country, in their own, like, you know, all the time, where are you from? It's like, I was born here, you know, so it's, it's really interesting how people, how. It's very. It's the first thing that people hear and they need to identify and it's like, to know your story. You know, speaking of stories, like, people are intrigued in other people's stories, right?

Yeah, it's actually now maybe like, I came here in the 90s, so maybe like, at then, at that time, there was a little bit of, like, stigma. Like they kind of, you know, when you don't speak English, right? They might be like. Because some people, Some. Someone might not speak English that well, but they might be like a genius, right? But just because they don't speak English, they almost treat, like they treat you like a child or something like that. But now I feel like it's. That stigma is pretty much gone. At least, like, where I live. People. People actually think it's cool when you have an accent. They're like, ooh, like fancy. You know what I mean? I love that.

And I think, like, this is the story. Speaking of story like that we need to tell ourselves because it's also the internal story. Like, if. If our story is, you know, having an accent means that I'm. I'm not, as, you know, I'm not going to succeed or I have all these things that are blocking me. Of course it's going to kind of like, manifest itself. But if it's just people are interested in me and my story, I'm unique, I think. I think you show up differently, you know, to the conversation. Or I do think that there is still a lot of judgment and discrimination. Like, from what I hear, probably in New York less because it's such a cosmopolitan city. And, um, so from. So now. Now, now that kind of, like, we talked about the language. Tell us about what it is that you do and how that relates to storytelling. Because just to let people know why I'm so intrigued by it, because you know, what you do. And we had a few conversations about that has so much with. With what I do in terms of languages and teaching and confidence. And you do something else. Like you are in advertising and branding and storytelling, right? Like in business. And we saw so many parallel lines and then. And I'd love to talk a little bit about that. So maybe just in general. You do. Yeah.

So a lot of what I do, I used to work with kind of corporate brands, so I used to work with clients like American Red Cross, Columbia University, like Spotify. But, like, for the last five or six years, I've been working with a lot of personal brands. And I started learning. I went to film school, like, 10 years ago. So I kind of Learned some screenwriting storytelling there, but I didn't really use it. And then I started learning copywriting about five years ago, and I kind of merged the two together. And for the past three years or so, people have been coming to me to help them kind of define their story. And why in my work, why story is so important is because for personal brands, when somebody is a big part of what I do is. Has to do with, like, being authentic. So my job actually, 90% of my job is actually doing two things. It's one, getting them to simplify, because when everyone tells a story, they're over telling a story, they want to include all the details. So I have to, like, trim a lot of things out of the story. And two is for. To help them to be vulnerable and authentic, because that's the part that a lot of personal brands struggle with. Because.

How do you define authentication? And by the way, you have like a podcast called Authentic as Fuck, right? Like, you are definitely dealing. And all the links, by the way, for those of you watching are below the video. But how do you define authentic?

So here's how I define it. So I think there's three stages of authenticity, in my opinion. The first stage is people that are not authentic. So this is when I was, like, in high school and college when I was younger. That was me. People that are not authentic, and they know they're not, so they. They kind of use this line, like, fake it till you make it right? I'll. I'll just. I know that I'm not being authentic. I. I know that I'm trying to come off cooler than, like, cool in front of people. I'm. I'm trying to appear cool. And then I think kind of when you get a little bit older, when you think you're being authentic, there's the second phase where they say, oh, I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of me, right? And I call that, like, the fake authentic. Because reality is everybody cares what other people think of them, but they hide behind this mask of like, oh, I'm tough. I don't really care. So that they go through that stage, but at that stage, we still think we're authentic. Like, oh, I'm so authentic. And then finally, the real authenticity comes when you are afraid. You are vulnerable. You are scared of what people think, how they're going to judge you, but you say it anyway. And that's, I think, where I. And that's the part that I'm trying to get my clients to, right? Because it's not authentic. When somebody says somebody's trying to be vulnerable and, like, you know, you see a lot of celebrities do this that are. They're, like, really skinny and they're really fit, but they're like, oh, I'm just. I'm such a pig. I eat anything I want to. Something like that. That's really not vulnerability. That's actually humble bragging. But a real authenticity is like, something that really, before you say it, you feel a little uncomfortable. The more uncomfortable it is, the more authentic it is.

I love it. It's like, that's your measure, right? It's kind of like a authentic meter. Authenticity meter, right. That you have internally, the more awkward and the more cringeworthy it is, where maybe that cringe, like, you don't. You feel uncomfortable. You have resistance. The more authentic you are. I love it so much. And, you know, I always talk about speaking English and not, like, not sounding like a native, but speaking and feeling authentic. Right? Like, and I think what you said really, really reflects that idea because, you know, faking it and not, you know, like. Or not speaking because you're afraid of making mistakes. So it all looks perfect, right? And only if you write, you know, if you can. You know, we have a community in our Facebook group, a Facebook group community where we use videos. So, like, you can. On one hand, you can make, like, a ton of video, which is great because it's a form of practice, but, like, you want to get it right. So God forbid, like, you're not messing up or you're not making mistakes, but versus, you know, just going live and letting yourself be. And letting yourself be vulnerable and get stuck and, like, not try to hide it because it's part of everyone's process and not even on video. It's also, you know, when you speak to people, because a lot of times people will not speak in meetings because they don't know how to finish the sentence or they don't want to make mistakes or sound weird in their opinion. Whereas being authentic in a language is just, you know, know, speaking and. And let communication do the work, right?

Let.

Let the story that you want to convey or to tell or the message and. And. Or you need to get something out of the other person. Yeah, I love it.

That was me in the meetings, like, not speaking. I was always the guy that goes in to say hello and then say bye at the end, but in the meeting, like, and that really. It really held me back in my career. Because what was.

What was holding you back from speaking? Can you talk about that and then the result.

Yeah, I. I always saw my. I think until a certain age, I always saw myself as a foreigner, right. Like, I'm not, I'm not American. So I felt like everything that I said, I'm saying it wrong. Like now I say, I say things wrong all the time. I mispronounce things I miss. Like, I use wrong words, I make mistakes all the time, and I really don't care. But also what resonates with me, what you were saying is when I was growing up, so in my school, there were some Koreans and some Chinese kids. And what I noticed is Chinese kids learn a lot faster than Koreans. And it's because Koreans, like, by culture, we have this thing where we have to appear cool, we have a lot of pride. And so they don't speak because they don't want to sound stupid or something like that. Whereas in the Chinese, kids didn't care at all. They'll just speak even if it's wrong, Even if nobody knows what they're talking about. Even if people are like, what? What? Like they'll just speak. Right? And therefore they learn so much faster than the Korean kids. So I totally, like, resonate with that.

Yeah, no, like, what you're saying is exactly the example of, like, trying to keep a facade and then, you know, or waiting to speak until everything's perfect. But the one thing, the one thing that is going to help you to get to where you want to be is actually doing the thing that you avoid because you want. It's like such a catch 22. And I didn't, I didn't know. Like, it's so interesting to hear that, like, from your perspective, like, having that experience. Experience. Because I usually see the, you know, the grown ups with like, my students and my followers. They're the grown ups. And then, you know, to hear the story. Okay, so all of that experience got you to feel incompetent or maybe like less worthy in meetings. Is that like, so. Or maybe your voice did not matter so much. Is that.

And I was also kind of. I'm a super introvert, you wouldn't notice that. But that I was also shy, so I didn't really speak up. And so many times there were times that I wanted to speak up. Right. But in my head I would be like, okay, I should say this. And I just think about it, overthink it in my head, over and over. And like 10 minutes have passed by now it's too late to bring it up. So, you know, that just happens.

Yeah, this is exactly what happens? Or is that relevant? Or. Yeah, just to get it right. Like, how am I going to say it? Exactly, and then it's no longer relevant.

Right.

And. And how did that hold you back in your career?

Yeah, it held me back because there were so many things where I wanted to. If somebody says, brings up an idea and I'm like, that's actually not a good idea. I was afraid to say, like, not only because I'm. I'm opposing that idea, but also because, like, I'm afraid of people that going like, oh, what do you know, son? Right. But then, like, three months later, it'll turn out that I was right and if I did say it, I would have gotten some sort of recognition for it. Right. So things like that happened a lot. I can't hear you now. I can't hear you. No audio.

I was actually. I was actually saying, as I thought I'm unmuted, that I wanted to let you know that I'm still saying a lot of yes and ahas as you're speaking, you just can't hear me. You can even hear me saying that. But yeah, this is exactly it. Like, you know that something is right and you hold yourself back. And that's like the worst experience because you let something like a language or fear of what other people might think of you, not even, like, stand in your way, in the way of your career, which it has, but it's like standing in the way of who you are. Right. Like, of how you show up in the world of, you know, your authentic self.

Right.

Like, you truly said their opinion is more important than me speaking up, which is something that people hear. And put yes in the comments. If you, if you relate to that, like, put. Say yes if. If you feel that that's the case, that a lot of times you're holding who you are back for the fear of not sounding right or for the fear of, you know, people judging your English.

Right.

Which is just like another language. It's like, you know, it's. It's like the outfit that you should.

Wear when you're not being yourself. What also happens is it. It also affects your relationships, right? Because the reason why your friends love you is because you're 100% being yourself in front of them. Right? And then like when, at least when I was younger I was growing up, like, whenever I try to act like someone else, whether I'm on a date or like I'm with a new group of friends or something like that, there I was always like, oh, you know, My, My friends love me. How come, like, this girl doesn't like me or something like that? And it's because I'm not being myself. And when you're not being yourself, people can sense that. You know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly. And it's interesting. I don't know if we spoke about that or I saw, like, I, I, I recently started talking about that idea of, of. Okay, so on one hand, I'm kind of, like, challenging what you said, because on one hand, you're not being yourself, and that's the worst because then people don't get to know you. You're not being yourself out of the fear. But at the same time, I also like this idea of, like, like, because we have different identities, right? We do have different. I'm with my friends, not the same as I'm with my parents, not the same as I'm with my team. I mean, there is the core. But, like, different facets of my personality are manifested for each identity. And, and I feel that the same way. Probably you feel that too, in languages, right? Like hadar in Hebrew. It's not exactly as hadar in English, Right. Do you feel, do you feel that it's the same way?

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm totally like. I mean, I guess it's cultural. That's why I think when you learn two language, when you know two languages, it's much more than just learning two languages because you actually learn, like, Korean people, the way they talk, their language, they actually think differently than Americans. And when you, when you can see, like, both sides of the perspective, I feel like it opens you up to. I, I feel like just being bilingual is such a huge advantage to your life. Not just in language, but learning how to think.

What do you mean by think differently? How do you think differently? I totally resonate with that.

That.

I'd love for you to talk about that.

Yeah, I can't really pinpoint it. But, like, when I'm thinking in Korean and I'm speaking in Korean, I guess, for example, like, when I speak to older people, right. In Korea, there's, like, this huge respect. Kind of like there's the honorific thing where I act differently when I'm talking to somebody older than I'm younger. But with Americans, I act the exact same way whether I'm talking to somebody younger or older. Right. And that, that one, like, so interesting.

It's like, it's so like, the power of words, right? The power of language. It already kind of like, yeah, you wanted to say something else or.

I Stopped.

Yeah, that's, that's really brilliant. And okay, so, so let's, let's start to tie it back to what you do now, which is, you know, like you, as, as a branding agency or advertising, like, you are telling the stories of the people whom you represent. Right? Like, and, and you also encourage them to show up as authentic as possible. So how, how do you talk about authenticity or. Let's talk about authenticity in storytelling.

Yeah, so the reason why I kind of double down on authenticity and like my podcast is called Authentic as Fuck is because like, people, a lot of people are like, oh, what is like storytelling? Have to do anything with it, but it has a lot to do with it because a lot of times when you tell a story, like the things that people are going to relate to is in the details. And when you tell a fake story, a made up story, what happens is you leave out the details and you try to kind of give the high level gist of it. But where I learned this is, I think three or four years ago I worked with Mel Robbins and I was watching all of her videos and she was on Impact Theory with Tom Bilyo and she was talking about. And that video, like went viral. It's. I think it's one of the most viewed video on, on his channel. And one of the things that she was saying is like, do you, you know, she used to, she, she, she was procrastinating. She couldn't wake up in the morning. She went really vulnerable. She said she could even get up in time to get her kids to school on time. Right. And every night she would say, tomorrow is the day. Tomorrow I'm going to wake up in the morning, I'm going to go for a run and I'm going to change my life. And her restaurant was like, her husband's restaurant was like going through bankruptcy. And she had all these financial issues and that kind of brought her down this spiral, right? So she says that and then seven hours later, like, where is that person? There's no motivation. She hits the snooze button. She sits there and she sits in bed with her eyes open just thinking about all the financial worries that she has. She draws like a picture of like she would go to the grocery, grocery store and come up with excuses that she's gonna give if her credit card gets, get this client. Or she would unplug all the phones in the house because every time the bank would call, like, she would get anxiety attacks, right? So these are little details that draws a clear picture of what that looks like. And to say that, right. Just think about how vulnerable you have to be, because that's like, the perfect example of the vulnerability that I'm talking about, where you're not humble bragging. These are actual things that's going to be hard for you to say in public. And. But when those stories are the ones where. When I watch, it made me go like, wow, like, I can totally relate. Like, I've been there. And yeah, that's. That's when I realized, like, the power of vulnerability, authenticity, having details in the story.

And it's so. Like, it's so true. Because even if I never had that experience of unplugging all my phones, I know exactly what it means to get stressed out over a phone call because I had that experience, right. Like. Like the moment you told that story, I had that anxiety. Like, I knew what she was feeling because I had that indifferent. Or it was so specific that I could visualize it even if I never. Like, I haven't experienced that, but I could have, like, a very specific experience that is similar to that.

So is exactly what you said, right? In. You might not have the same exact experience, but you can relate to it. Because maybe it was in the banks, but maybe, like, for me, it was in the banks, but it was like either my dad calling me or, you know, when. When I. When I'm, like, trying to avoid him or like, you know, maybe my clients are calling me when I'm bleeding the deadline. So I can still relate to it in different ways. And that's why telling the details is so important. Because, like, you might be addicted to, like, potato chips, but this other person might not be addicted to potato chip, but they're addicted to coffee or ice cream or whatever it is. So it's actually important to add those details.

Yeah. Because anyway, when we listen to stories, we think about ourselves, right? Like, so we filter out your story through, like, our own experience. Experiences. And this is why, first of all, stories are important. And I think it's important to talk not just in the context of having a business, but when you communicate with people and you want to form deep, deeper relationships. And I know that a lot of people here struggle with, you know, just like, making those connections because of the fear of the language. I think that this is such a safe place to go to telling stories. But like you said, it's not just, you know, I'm. Yesterday I went out for a run, you know, but instead, like, I went out for a run even though I really wanted to stay in Bed. But I went out and then I saw my neighbor. My neighbor. And I really didn't want to talk to him, you know, and he started having this long conversation with me, and then it starts engaging because, like, oh, I know that feeling where. So I. I think that.

That it immediately makes you, like, best friends. Because I had at this time when I was talking to a client, a new client, she came into the office and we were talking about a project, and all of a sudden I. It, like, what? Slipped. It just slipped out. I was like, oh, that's. Or something like that, right? And. And then she started laughing. And then right away, as I'm like, oh, right. Like, and she started laughing. Yeah. And it just broke the ice. Even though that was the first time we met, from that point on, we almost, like, became friends. Right. It wasn't like a client vendor anymore. And it's. Yeah, it just makes you an insider when, you know.

You know, I think. I think for me, that was a long journey when it comes to authenticity and storytelling. Right? Like, if you look at my YouTube channel and you. You look at the first year of creating videos, they were very, very concise, right? Like, hi, it's Hadar. Blah, blah, blah. This is the lesson. Goodbye. Thank you. Like, hit. You know, subscribe, share. And. And not only that. Like, I did not allow myself to come into the video. And I also. I was not, like, comfortable in front of the camera. And the more. I think there was one turning point where I actually told my story for the first time and talking about me not being a native and the fears around that. And like, like you said, you know, I'm. I'm. I'm showing up publicly. I'm a. You know, people know me. I represent English for them sometimes. Well, that's like a big thing. But, like, you know, I represent. Teach English teaching. I make mistakes, right? Like, nothing about me is perfect. And. And I think that was, like, a big fear of mine, and that was the obstacle. But once I became more authentic, then the stories started coming in and, you know, and I was afraid to share stories because people are coming to learn a lesson, you know, or to learn something about English. Why do they need to hear my stories about this, this and that? And then I started, you know, noticing that that is when people started connecting with me. That is when people started, like, getting more to know me, being willing to hear what I have to say. Because it's not just like an English lesson. It's hadar talking about English or.

And. And then it's also because it's also because. So that's what I. That's the big aha moment for me with Mel Robbins is that, like, when I look at certain people like that, I don't know their story, like, let's say Tony Robbins or someone like that. To me, like, I think of them as like, oh, they're like, God, they're. They're on a different level. I can never be like that, right? I can never be. Whatever he's saying, whatever he's trying to teach, that will never work for me. It'll work for you, but that won't work for me. Right? But when I hear a Mel Robbins story or if I hear their actual story, I can relate to it, and I start saying, oh, she was just like me. So if she can do it, I can do it too. And that's why you want to share their story, even if you're like an authority figure, because it gives hope to the person that you're teaching. No.

And right. And it. Like it when there isn't exactly. Like, when there isn't that image of perfection it gives. It really does seem feasible, right? Like, it's not. It seems like, okay, you know, then maybe I can do it too. Exactly what you said. And how would you. What tip would you give people, you know, who want to start telling, like, so again, like, going into this basic communication. Start telling stories, right? Like, and people are afraid to make mistakes or to go into maybe talk too much. So all those negative thoughts that may prevent them. And instead, like, we are here encouraging people to give themselves permission to. To go into stories. But what tips would you give them as they're trying to figure out what. How to do that?

Great question. So for me, it took me a long time to get. So it didn't happen overnight, right? But I kept doing it and I just kept speaking. So first I started just speaking a lot in English with people I know, Right. But recently what I discovered is I love that you have them do videos, like, make videos. Because one of the things that when I started making videos for the first time, like six months ago, when I edit them, I would be like, I was. It was so cringy. Like, I was like, oh, I hate listening to myself. Like, you know what I mean? But I just kept doing it, I kept posting it. And after like two or three months, I got so used to it that I didn't. It didn't bother me anymore. I'm like, oh, that's just me. That's how I sound. Accept the fact and you know, people like it.

Yeah. And like, and. And it's something that you do. It's not like you made a video. It's just you spoke and the camera was. Just happened to be on. Right. Like, and by the way, for those of you who don't follow sun, go to Instagram. Sun. EE Right. Y. I. And it's like, you. You'll understand. Okay, so. So, like, go there. Because it's truly like, the best Instagram account I've ever seen, especially when it comes to, like, looking. How to. How to tell stories. Looking tell stories. But yeah, sorry, going back, so you have a bunch of videos there, and it. There, it seems very, very much like, you know, you didn't even know that the camera was on. You're just speaking. Right. But it's nice to hear that it wasn't as. It wasn't easy at the beginning. Right. Like, it didn't start easy. And. And now you have people going crazy over your content, over your stories, and knowing that, like, you know, it's only a result of hard work and repetition. And we also talked about repetition. So maybe. Okay, so. So that. That was a great tip. And now, like, you. You're also teaching people how to tell stories on Instagram through, you know, carousels, like using graphic design and stuff like that. And. And I'd love to talk because you talked about the fear of people doing it, because they don't know yet, so they're not even trying. So maybe you can talk about that and how you coach them into get things done.

So it's related. So I'm also a perfectionist. So it took me a long time to do it. Whatever it is that person that you're talking about, I have to sound perfect. So I just practice in my head. That's me. So when I first got on Instagram, but I didn't think of it as, like, I tried to do a YouTube channel like, two years ago, and I try to make everything perfect and nobody's watching it. Right. And then when I got on Instagram, I just started putting out bad content videos. Like, bad videos where I say a lot of like. Like this. Like, I just put them all out. And the more I did, and I even got to a point where I got a great tip from somebody that said, once you notice a mistake, like if I make a carousel or if I post something and I see a spelling mistake or something like that, even if you catch it, post it anyway. Because getting into practice of that helps you actually get over perfectionism. And when you do it enough times, you're like, oh, it's not the end of the world. And you become more comfortable with just posting mistake and making mistakes in general.

Okay, I just want to copy paste it for a second. Or, like, take that. That, like, last 30 seconds. And I want to. I want you to say that again. Like, you know, so you actually. Or I'm just gonna rephrase it again. So you're saying that. Okay, as a perfectionist, creating content, putting something out on Instagram, you know, one of the things that inhibited you was to find out that you've made a mistake. So you said that, like, one of the ways to deal with it is to notice the mistake and not to correct it, to post it anyway, even though you could. It would have taken you, like, 10 more minutes, 15 more minutes. But, like, the act of doing it anyway, knowing that you've made a mistake is the best way to overcome perfectionism, which is the one thing that is truly holding you back from getting what you want in life, probably, right?

Yeah, exactly. That's. I see that as like, the biggest, I guess, setback for almost everyone. Like, there's so many people that are, you know, like, that whole decision, like. Like, you know, paralysis, Paralysis by analysis, I guess they call it. Like, they overthink it and they don't post. But that really gave me power because it's almost like muscle memory. The first time I do it, I'm like, post, right? And then every time I go back and I'm looking at it, it's like, oh, there's that mistake, right? But then you do it, you know, you make. You notice the mistake and you do it again, and you do it again, and after a while, like, you don't even care anymore. Okay, I guess it's the mistake. And let me tell you this.

Like, what was the response of people?

Oh, nobody. Nobody noticed this.

Yesterday I was using one of your posts as an example to, I have a community of teachers, right? Like, and I told them, like, one of them was really struggling with a brand name. And then I said, you know, you can always start and change it or change the handle. No one's going to notice. And then I remembered one of your posts saying that, like, for months you were thinking whether or not you should do everything, like black and white or add color. And then, like, one day you decided that you're going to add color, and you added one emoji, like, in yellow, and you're like, you know, how many people noticed it? Zero.

Right?

And no one cares. No one cares about your mistakes. No one cares about your typos. No one cares about your spelling mistakes. First of all, they care. They think about how they're going to come off if they understand you, right? Like, so they don't make any awkward responses that are not related to what you said. And, and really, that's. People are looking for the message, and the brain filters out a lot of information. So it's not like they've noticed and they haven't commented. In many of the cases, they don't. Like, the brain does not even perceive it. Like, the eye sees it, but the brain. Like, the brain does not recognize it because it kind of like completes it in the, like, the proper same thing with grammar mistakes. So people are so self conscious about, oh, I said hadn't instead of hasn't. And. And then they think that even if.

It was a big thing that people notice, you know how, like, celebrities will have like this scandal, right? And then like a week later, nobody even talks about it. Like, nobody even remembers it or, you know, the reason why that happens is because everybody is busy living their own life. Nobody's like, nobody cares about you. Everybody's focused on themselves. So even if it's like a huge mistake, let's say you something as big as a scandal or something like that, don't worry, like, people are gonna forget. So.

Yeah. And again, as long as. As. And I think that, like, as long as you acknowledge it, you know, one of the things Elena here says I care. I always spot mistakes, Elena, is that, like, person that notices the mistake and Theresa. Yeah, right, Elena. But like, it's also, you know, it's. It's. It's. Are you judgmental about it? And also it's really interesting to think about yourself if you notice the mistakes. That is probably one of the things that is also inhibiting you because you think that everyone notices those mistakes as you do, right? So.

Once in a while, like, somebody will comment or DM me and say, hey, by the way, there's a mistake here. But they're not doing out of like, hey, look like you made a mistake right there. What they're doing is like, hey, just wanted to let you know, because they're doing it because they care about me right there. And I'll just say, oh, thank you so much. Like, and it's.

But how do you feel about it? Like, really feel? Do you. Are you appreciative or does it get you to be like, yeah, it's like.

Like, you know, this person noticed it and like, because like, especially because I knew it too. But you know, I think even that that's muscle memory too. You get used to it after a while. I now I really do appreciate. I'm like, wow, this person cared enough to go out of their way to take a minute and send me a dm.

And exactly. Like, there is a way around it. You know, I was talking about haters the other day or people who criticize you publicly. And there is a difference between someone sending you a dm, telling you he just wanted to let you know. And I've gotten those as well. Or someone like writing a comment on YouTube, you know, you said this instead of that, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, you know, okay, I get that too. Yeah, I get those in the comments too. But those I just ignore because it's. Because I think there are certain people that are just going to be like that no matter what. Like no matter what you say. And, you know, that's why I think it's important to dismiss it. Because just like you said before, when you do make a mistake and you make a big deal out of, becomes bigger. But when you make a mistake or something like, or like you said, apologize or something like that, if I said something wrong and immediately say, oh, yeah, I was wrong. Because a lot of people have that identity thing where if I believe in this and I say this and then next year I change my mind. Like, I, they still feel the need to hold on to that identity because they've, they've said it and people are going to be like, but you said last year this. Right, but if you just say, if you could just.

Such a good point.

Yeah. If you just say, yeah, I was wrong last year and now I changed my mind, there's nothing they can do. And that's the power of authenticity. That's the power of honesty.

Right? Like, you know, not to hold on to, not ideas that people have about you or ideas that you have about yourself.

Right.

Like, I think that like being in constant evalu, evaluation, self evaluation about who you are, who you want to be, what your goals are and then to change. Because, like, yeah, I said that I'm going to do this. And then a year in, you're like, I'm not enjoying my life, I'm not enjoying my business, where my career. Like, no, but I said that I will, you know, so.

No, you're blocking yourself. Yeah, you're blocking yourself from improving actually, you know, also, what is the biggest.

Struggle that you see when people, even brands or business, people who Try to tell a story, you know, because these are the people that you work with. But I think it's going to be relevant for everyone. What are. What are the biggest challenges that people face when it comes to telling a story?

Yeah, those two things that I mentioned earlier. Like, people, they want to include every. So when it comes to storytelling, they just want to write a whole book, right? But what ends up happening is it's kind of like when you. So in branding, what happens is the way your brand is gonna spread is when other people talk about you, not because you don't have the manpower to talk about. Talk about you, like, to everyone, right? So what happens is other people have to talk about you, then tell your story for you. But if your story is too complicated, it's like the difference between if, like, Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle try to do a joke, it's only funny if they deliver it. Like, nobody else can tell that joke like that, right? But then there are certain jokes that anybody. The joke itself is so good. It's simple and has a punchline. It's. It's so well written that anybody can tell the joke and it's so funny, right? So that's how you want the story to be, so that anybody can tell your story and it's still good. And otherwise you're gonna have to tell it every time. So.

And it's also a great way to stay memorable, right? Like, for people to remember you. They might not remember your name, but they'll remember the story that you told, right? Like, they'll remember your story if it's something that can. It's kind of like you can tell in one breath, right? Like, I'm thinking one thought. Yeah, Like a punchline, right? You're just like, oh, that.

One example I give is like, there's this show on. I don't know if it's on Netflix, but it's called Cosmos. It's with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. It's like all about the universe and stuff like that. And when I watch that show, I'm like, I'm so fascinated by it. And then it makes perfect sense when he says it, right? And then as soon as I try to tell it to a friend, like, try to explain the show to them, like, halfway into it, I'm like, oh, you just gotta watch it, because I can't do it as well as him. And that's so important in brands. That's so important.

Yeah, yeah. Like, even ideas, like, sometimes I hear something from a coach or a thought leader And I'm like, I can relay the idea or the story, but if I feel like you really need to get the excuse experience, you gotta go watch it yourself. Yeah, I totally, I totally get that. Okay.

And then the second part is the authenticity. A lot of very, very few people actually are vulnerable enough to really fully put themselves out there. And what I noticed is that like, like our biggest clients, the ones that you would think that, you know, they have like a different Persona on camera versus not, are actually the ones that are like, exactly the same on or off camera. And some of our smaller clients are the ones that, you know, has to have to have the perfect makeup, the perfect set, perfect lighting, and, you know, they care. They have a different on camera Persona versus off camera. So that authenticity, I think, is another important factor.

Okay, so understanding how to tell a story in a concise way, not like to overdo it, but go into the specifics, right? Like, so it's not general or. I think what you said is just make it. The fact that it's real is already going to have the right details in it. Right. If it's real.

And it has to be. So what a lot of people do is they tell like, story in a linear way. But what needs, what you need to do is actually, because when you tell an entire story of my life, right. Not all of that is going to matter to that audience. So what I do is I, I talk about the lesson, the takeaway at the end, right? What is the core message that I want to say at the end? And then I only pick out the, the situation that relates to that, and I just cut everything out. But then when that situation, I'm detailed. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, which again, like, I think, for example, you should check out the, in the, you know, your account because basically what you have. You've been doing is you've been telling stories in a. In a form of a sequence. So it's not like a story as we know it, like a post where you tell a story, but you have, you're doing it in a carousel on Instagram, which is like, you see one slide, then like, you're curious about the next one and you're moving. I mean, what are the advantages? Yeah, because you guys, for those of you who have Instagram accounts, we're going to have a small assignment for you. So, like, to put what you learn here into practice. So what is the benefit of doing it that way?

So I love doing those carousels because you're right. They're not like a typical story, like how you tell a story, but I think it captures people's attention. You can get a message across because it's 10 slides. It's almost like a PowerPoint presentation. And it's not an actual story, but there's storytelling elements in it. So one of the things that I do is I always have the takeaway in the last slide. What is the actual lesson? And then I work backwards, like, what are the. And all of our. My stories always try to include example. Like an actual example of that that supports that lesson. Like, for example, if I say one of them, one of them, I say, oh, what's the important, like, importance of, like, having a perfect grid on Instagram, right? And at the end, the lesson is that don't worry about the perfect grid, because it's going to stop you from posting, because it's okay if your grid is messy. Don't let it stop you from posting. That's the final takeaway. And then the example I give is I put these huge accounts, like Gary Vee or someone like that, examples of them, and they're all like, ugly grids, right? And then another storytelling. So that's an example. And then another storytelling element is the hook, what's going to get their attention, which is the first cover and then the turning point. So I always start out saying, so that carousel. I said, hey, every marketer knows the importance of a beautiful grid. Just take a look at these beautiful grids. And then, boom, I go into the ugly grids example, and then the last slide says, don't let an ugly grid stop you from posting. So that's like a.

So it's kind of like you're leading them in one direction and they're already assuming that you're going to take them somewhere. And then, like, you show them the examples of the other. Like, the exact opposite. Which leads you to your main point. I love that. Exactly. Do you think that people who don't have. Who don't have a business or brands, like, how do you think about. What do you think about building your Instagram profile, right, As a form of representing you or building a personal brand even though you don't have a business? Because ultimately, you know, like, once we have an Instagram account, it's like a different appearance. Like, we are creating a Persona that is not necessarily your individual self. So because I'm sure that a lot of people watching this, they don't have a business account, but they have an Instagram account. So how do you. How do You. How can you relate that? Yeah.

So I am a huge believer of personal brands. I actually think that at some point every brand is going to have to rely on personal brands. And even if you're not a actual business, it is going to become important because right now, in certain industries, like marketing or obviously if you're like an actress or actor. Right. Like, I know some people that has gotten roles or parts because they have more followers than this other actress or something like that.

Absolutely. It happens here all of the time. Yeah.

Even if they might not be as good of an actress. Right. And then in marketing, what they do is when they look at resumes, then they hire people, they always look at social media because they, they use it as like a gauge to be like, oh, does this person know how to market himself? If, if they do, they're probably going to be good in this role. Right. Or when. If you're like.

And I don't think it's just with marketing, I think it's. It's also like in everywhere. If, if I, like, if I'm hiring, I would probably go search for that person's Facebook page and Instagram account. Like, I want to see how they show how they, you know, like you said, market themselves or, or who's that Persona that they portray?

Yeah. So the Persona to see how, what, to get a feel for what they're like. Because when, when you go through their social media and they show themselves, they really bring themselves, their personality, you almost feel like they're your friend, you know them. Right. So you're going to have this bias towards that person also, the way they communicate, like, are they a good communicator, things like that.

So I think it's important for all of you, especially seeking for a job or building. Like, you do have an Instagram account. Like, I think that, you know, all the things that we talked about, telling stories or being authentic or like, just presenting yourself in a certain way helps build your brand, which is going to be used for you. Or sometimes, you know, if, if you want, you know, especially when you're looking for a job or when you do have your, like, you end up opening your own business or.

Let me give just one quick little story if we have time. So when I started my company, I, I didn't have. I wasn't as authentic. And I would always, like, when I, if I missed deadlines or something like that, I would always come up with excuses like, oh, you know, the whole. My dog ate my homework. Like, our server went down. Oh, sorry. Like, I Didn't see that email, those kind of things. But I was. At that time, I was like, so busy. I was swamped. And I didn't. I missed this deadline twice and the client kept calling me. And finally I didn't have time. I didn't even have the energy to lie to make up an excuse. So I just told them, like, hey, the truth is we're kind of struggling financially and we took on more project than we can just to keep the cash flow going. And I know that we missed the deadline twice, but I assure you that I'm going to deliver a quality product at the end and just give us a little bit more time. And at that time, like, I thought he was going to fire me. I was completely being vulnerable. But instead he actually gave us a bonus. He paid us more money to make sure that we can stay open and gave us more time. Right. So that's like a. That was like a kind of a mini aha moment where I found the value of being vulnerable, even in a business setting. And that really, like, he's really trusting me from that point on. Right, so that's like a quick story of.

That's incredible. First of all, what a beautiful story. And like, like a humane moment, right? Like that, like, it restores faith in humanity. And also, yeah, it's just proof that, like, saying the truth and not being, like, being vulnerable, it's not even saying the truth because you could have said, you know, like, other things that might have been considered as true. But being vulnerable, like, it's not. It's not going to play against you ever. Like, if people use it against you, then these are not the right people to be around to begin with. I think, like, if. And if you want to attract the right people, it's the people who are going to appreciate vulnerability. And I think there is, like, something so freeing, so much freedom in being vulnerable. Whether it's like, when speaking English, but also when, you know, when at work, when, you know, doing business and everything else. Like when posting on Instagram. Yeah.

That'S the best part. I think what you said, being free. It's like they say, truth shall set you free. Like, that is literally the best part. Because my. All throughout my life, I felt like there was always I was wearing a mask. I was. There's this, like, heavy weight, like, on my shoulders. Like, oh, what if I say something wrong? Or what if, you know, what if somebody catches me here? But just taking off that mask, the best thing was that, like, I felt free, like nobody. I feel untouchable.

Amen. Do it. Untouchable.

Right?

And anything. We just had that discussion with my students that we had a session today, and, you know, this woman said, like, she made me tear up. She said, you know, first of all, like, I feel this freedom in English that I've never felt before. And it's not like it's been two months. You know, it's not like the results. Like, all of a sudden I sound like a different. No, it's just that the mental process that you're going through. And, you know, in my work, I put in a lot of mindset and a lot of repetition to build up that confidence, right? To give them, like, so it's like, fake experience of actually doing the work. Right. Like, you spoke about the fact that if people want to create those carousels, they need to imitate carousels to the T, like, 20, 30 times until they. They feel that they have that feeling of what it is to create a carousel. I do the same with grammar structures or sounds, right? Like, I take a grammar structure that is problematic, and I have them repeat it many, many different times. So in their brains and in their body, they have the experience of having done that, right? Like, and they come to a conversation more. More confidence because they know. Confident because they know that they. Their body knows how to handle this situation or this story or this or this tense whatever or sound. So I think ultimately it's, like, not about the results, and it's not about the performance. It's about the freedom, and it's about the internal journey that you're going through. And then, like, that's when you attract people. Not. Not people.

Yeah, people can feel the difference. People that are listening. Like, even if, I guess your English or your accent hasn't improved drastically, I think the confidence, people can still feel it, because that happens to me a lot where I go into a meeting with an agenda in my mind over thinking I'm going to say this, and I want to say this. I'm going to. And I go in and I get. I just get this, like, blank stare in my. And then nobody's, like, onto it. And then, like, all of a sudden I'm like, okay, I don't care anymore. And I just speak. Like, instantly the energy of the room changes and everybody starts, like, getting drawn to it.

I love that. Like, I feel. I wish that for so many people, you know, who are. Who are right at the part of, you know, people don't get it, and then they stop, you know, And I think this is such a Good example for next time, if you're watching this and next time you feel that you're saying something and people don't get you, instead of being quiet and, like, curling back in, just open it up and don't give an A fuck, you know? And just like. And just, like, speak whatever. Like, don't think about your accent, don't think about your English, and just, like, pour out everything that you have to say. And like, sun said he felt that it has changed the energy in the room. Right. Like, and all of a sudden, he took up more space or he owned his space. So thank you for sharing that, because I think this is the essence of what it is that we're always talking about. There was a really. Look. Okay, so first of all, if you have questions for sun, then ask it. Michael was asking something. Here, let me find that question. Okay, so, Michael, I see the question, son. Do you. Do you believe in analogy to simply. To simply story or maybe the simplified stories? Do you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I always use analogies whenever I don't have, like. Like you said, if the story is too complex or if I don't, I don't have enough. Like, for example, in the carousel, I use it all the time because I can't write a whole story in the carousel. So then I'll just use that. Like one. One example. One example I did was I always try to tell people, like, you just have to do it. Like, you can't sit there and just watch YouTube videos or read books all day. You have to actually practice it. Right. So the analogy I give is, you know, you can't learn how to write, ride a bike, just reading a book. At some point, you just have to go out and write it. That's when you're really so. Something like that. Yeah.

Right. So. Oh, sorry. I don't know if there was an echo, but, yeah, like, I think analogies are the best way. Or metaphors. Right. Like, the best way to convey complex ideas.

I always get those two mixed up. I'm like, is it a metaphor or analogy?

Either or. You get what we're saying, right? Yeah. I want to explain it, but then I'm like, maybe I should let people who can explain it better explain it in the comments. Okay. Any other questions?

I can't hear you. I think you're on mute or something.

Thank you. Mauricio says, surround yourself with the people who truly value you. That's so true for everything. Yeah.

That's why I love your Facebook group, because I feel like community is everything. When it comes to. You have to know that you can go out there in the real world and fail, and there's still this community that's going to be supporting you no matter what happens. Right. And that's what kind of helps you get that confidence.

Exactly. And I truly believe in community learning nowadays, because we are, especially now, like, you know, Covid, we're all isolated, quarantined, and we need other people to grow, especially when it comes to language learning or to, you know, storytelling and building a business. Like, we need a community. And when it comes to marketing and branding, I always say your brand is only as strong as your community, because especially in our industry, in the English learning industry, because. And what I find so beautiful about the influencer community, the Facebook group, is that there is this constant support and sense of empowerment no matter what happens. And like you said, it allows them to fail. And if you fail enough times in a safe environment around other people, then you will be okay with failing around other people. Because you see, like, it's not that big a deal, even with a more judgmental audience.

Right.

And that's a good thing. There was a question here.

Do I need a personal story?

Alejandro.

So far, focus on benefits my work brings rather than my brand.

Questions for him.

Do you mean, like, it's like a B2B? It's. It's. It's like a. More of a B2B type of work. R and D consultant. And so.

Some of the benefits might work?

Oh, yeah, yeah. No. Okay. Yeah, definitely. So right now you're just talking about your services, your features and benefits and things like that. But you always have to. So it's kind of like when you put together a sales page, the sales script is the same thing. Right. Like, people don't buy features and benefits. They buy a solution. Right. Or a solution to a pain that they have. So you have to start out by talking about the pains and then give a story, whether your own personal story or story of a client that you work with or something like that that gives an example of. Yes, you see, like this. This client was having this problem, and this is how we solved it for them. Or I was having the same problem and this is how I got over it. Something like that. And then you go into the features and benefits, and the reason why that works is because of these features and benefits that'll get people to remember you, resonate with you, relate to you, than just going right into the features and benefits.

Right. And I think, like, you know, it's funny, when I Talk about my courses. No one, when people sign up, no one really remembers what the course has, right? Like, they have an idea what they're going to get. They're impressed, they want to do it. Right. But ultimately no one really looks in the details. They want to know what it's going to like, what are the results of, are they're going to come out with, you know, and, and get, you know, And a lot of times I'm like. For years I was obsessed with like, talking. How do I tell, like, talk about what my course has to offer. And when I changed that, not only that, it didn't, like, it truly wasn't the main thing. And, and I think that for everyone thinking about these things, look at what you are looking for. When you're, when you are buying things or when you are looking at other people's products or even Instagram accounts, what are you looking at? Like, what is the first thing that you're doing? You're seeing the photo, you're reading the post. Then you go to the bio to see if it's a right fit. You look at the first grid, right? So think of the process that you're going through and then say, okay, what do I want people to feel? Whether you have a business or you don't, Even if you're just posting to build your personal brand for whatever reason that is, I think that is even in interviews.

I think in job interviews that helps. You can, you can talk about your resume and all the experiences you have, they're not really going to remember that. But if you talk about, like a story that happened within that job where you solved a problem or something that they, a skill that they might value, that's going to be more memorable.

This is such a good tip because I know that a lot of people are like, really afraid of going into job interviews. So I think have some, some like key stories under your belt of how you solved something or dealt with a challenge or, you know, what brought you to do what you do, why you're so passionate about this work. Yeah. Rather than the actual experience. Yeah. Do we want to give them a little bit of a task to tell a story on Instagram?

Sure.

Okay. So how do you think we should go about it?

I would do okay. I didn't, I actually didn't have time to prepare the Canva template. But what I can do is I can, maybe I can send it to you like tonight or something like that. And I would have, I would have you guys kind of do a 10 slide carousel where you have a lesson at the end. So that slide 10 is some sort of a lesson that you want to talk about and then come up with the story that leads up to it. Like, what's something that happened in your life where you learned that lesson? A perfect example is what I gave before. Right. That the power of authenticity, like, when you're authentic, like, authenticity can actually help you in business, let's say. That's the lesson that I want to learn. And the story that I would tell is, this is what happened. I was. You know, I was gonna. I thought I was gonna get fired, but then he actually paid me more money instead. So there's, like, the turning point, right? Like, every story needs some sort of a turning point at the end. And then the COVID is. You know, you can start with the setup, like the before. Like, oh, I was so busy. Or. Or you can also start with the hook or the kind of. Yeah. What I call a hook is what's going to interest people. So for that one, I would probably say something like, I missed. I missed my deadline twice. And instead of firing me, the client gave me more money. Because when you hear that hook, they might be like, oh, I want to find out more. Right. So the lesson hook, and then some sort of a story in the middle. The story is kind of the example. Right. Example that serves the lesson. And then somewhere in between, whether it's slide five, it can come on slide three or slide seven, some sort of a turning point where they think this is going to happen, but then this is what actually happened. And you can look at, like, my. If you go to my Instagram, you can look at examples there. And then I'll try to. I'll put up a Canva template. It's do it all in text. No, you don't need graphics or images.

Yeah, that's great. So you'll get, like, a canva template. If you don't know what canva is, then go download it and get it and, like, sign up. And it's a fantastic way of.

Yeah.

And it's free, so we can share with you a canva template where you just need to. And I think the challenge here would be to find the right word so it's not too much, like, tell a story. You can tell whatever story you want, but if you want to tell your English story or, like, something that happened to you with English, if you want to connect it to this or anything else you want. If you just want, like, maybe if you're looking for a theme and it's Easier for you. And share it and tag both of us. Go to Sun's account just to understand what that is. Like that carousel and how to tell stories because it's very inspirational. And then create that and tag both of us so we can see it and comment on it too. But yeah, like, right? And anything else that you think. And also like, and think of being authentic.

Listen to everything, like each slide, try to keep it under 30 words, be authentic. And yeah, I mean, it's. These type of. Storytelling is something that takes a lot of practice, but I think it's fun. So, you know, you might do it and you might love it and you might want to keep doing it.

It's fun and it's such an excellent practice, right? Like, it's an excellent practice for first of all, you, you have, you get a story that you get to tell, right? Like, because if you were able to do it and put it in a carousel on Instagram, you will be able to talk about it and to tell it. That's one thing. Second, even as an English practice, it's like so great to take a vague idea and to break it down into a way that is manageable. And like, you know, that idea of a hook and a lesson and you know, the moral of the story or the point of the story, which is basically the order of how we want to tell stories, and then to find a way to do it in a concise way. So you see that you don't need fancy words and idioms and expressions to tell a story. Sometimes just like finding the right basic words, right? And sound like, if I look at your Instagram account, like, you never use those unused fancy high level words. It's all very basic and accessible.

I always, whenever I, whenever I use those words, I'm like, okay, how can I find a simpler way to say this? Another thing I do is I tend to say things like, oh, what I realized was, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'll just cut out that whole first part. What I realized was, because it's unnecessary and I'll just jump right in. So there's a lot of ways you can cut stuff. I have a couple of carousel tutorials on that. I'll send it to you so you can.

Yeah, yeah, and I'll share it or I'll share the link to the post. And I love it because I think it's just like. Also, again, going back to English, it's just like, oh, I don't feel smart enough if I don't use high level words. If I Don't upgrade my words. But at the same time, look at that. Like, the one thing that really connects people is the most basic, simple words that get people to feel. Because I'm going to be a lot more, you know, connected to the word problem or challenge than complication. Right. If I hear complication, it doesn't stir anything inside of me, but if I hear problem, I'm like, okay, what. You know, I. I feel. And that gets. Right. Or like, you know, a CEO of a company from the 80s. Yeah.

So.

So it's kind of like, don't. Also, don't be so hard on yourself if you're using basic words, because ultimately, as you can see, it's such a fantastic way to truly connect with other people. Yeah. Okay, so I'll post all the information about the challenge here and in the. On my Instagram. So I'm at Hadar Accentsway and Sun Yi is Sun Yee. All the links is right in the description below. So go check it out and I'll share with you the carousel template later on. So you can do that. There is no deadline. Whenever you do it, just tag us so we know it's from here. Any last words that you'd like to conclude today?

Yeah, I mean, thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun. Yeah. I love knowing, like, that, you know, there's all these, like, kind of connections between, like, what you do and what. Even though, like, we do two totally different things. Like, at the end of the day, we're dealing with humans, so, you know, there's not that much difference, you know, when you communicate with people.

Exactly.

Right.

Like, it's not. It's like. And then I told sun before we went live when we checked the audio, and it worked. So I told Sun. It's just like, it's so funny to see the same fears, same patterns. You work, you know, branding and. And storytelling, and I do it in language learning and I see it in business, in my business courses. And then when you realize it's just the human patterns, Right. Like, it's how we behave and how we operate in the world, then it takes away a little bit of the weight it has if it's just for storytelling or for language learning. Right. Like, it's the. Oh, it's not just me struggling with English, it's actually everyone. But it's actually not just everyone struggling with English is struggling with anything in life. You know, like, having their own voice, being accepted by the society, or, like, not the fear of being judged, the fear of not being adequate. So, yeah.

Yeah, Life lessons for sure.

Okay, you guys. So thank you, son, so, so much. It was such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for being patient with me at the beginning and taking on the the seat with your introduction that I couldn't hear, but I'll listen to it after. And, and you guys, thank you so much. If you have any questions for us, come back and just write them in the comments and we can both answer. And of course, we will share the challenge on Instagram and here. So thank you all for watching. Thank you so much, Dan. And I'll see you next week on Thursday at 12pm on the live English show. Thank you, everyone.