What is fluency?

Hey, everyone, it's Adar. Thank you so much for joining me today. We have a guest on the show and my guest's name is Orshi and Orshi is one of my students. But unlike other episodes or other interviews, this time I will be the one interviewed by Orshi. Orshi has prepared a bunch of questions about language and identity and native speakerism and fluency, and I think you are going to absolutely love the conversation that we had. She wanted to get my input about some of the things that she and other students in my program have been discussing or she is an ambassador in New Sound, my signature program, which means that she helps other students get through the program successfully or she herself was a student of New Sound and. And the program helped her change her life completely and start working in English and even teaching English. I am so excited for this conversation. Let's welcome Ori. Hi, Ori, how are you doing?

Hi, Hadar. It's so nice to be here with you. Thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you so much for this opportunity. So when you first reached out to me and you said, hadar, I'd like to interview you, I was like, okay, that sounds like a very good idea. And in fact, I'm sure that there are a lot of things that people would like to know, and I know that you know from being with our students. As I said before, you are an ambassador, so that means that you help our students facilitate, you know, the program and their path to their success. And like I said, I think that you are very much in touch with a lot of students who have that conversation around language in and accents and the learning journey. And I would love to answer some of those questions that you have and some of the other students have. So I think it's such a cool opportunity for me and I think for both of us. And I wanted to say thank you so much for this.

Oh, Heather, really, that was a fantastic introduction. And I actually agree with you that speaking with a lot of students, we can share a lot of experiences about language learning. And then I'm really so happy to be a part of this through New Sound and through your communities. It is really an experience for me to share with others and it keeps my momentum high in my journey.

I love that. So maybe before we begin, why don't you tell us about you?

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. My name is Orshe. If there is someone didn't know me, I'm from Hungary and I'm a passionate language learner and somehow even teacher. And what I think it's important to know is that I love languages and English is not my only foreign language. I speak Italian, Spanish and German as well. Not at the same level, but they are actually my languages. And I really feel that's the best part of my life. And what I think it's even more important than this that after New Sound, when I was students in your program, I changed all my life from one day to the other, just not to lose the connection with English and to test it in the real life. So I just started to work in English, I started to live in English, I started to do everything in English. And. And you know what? It works. It's been working.

It works, right? It's not like just thoughts and words.

Yeah, it really works. So that's actually the magic in that. So I'm so grateful for that, you know.

Amazing. Amazing. So, Oreshi, I'm all yours. What questions do you have for me today?

So the first question would be is, what is the biggest challenge you have when it comes to motivate people?

That's a really good question. I think the biggest challenge I have when it comes to motivating people is this idea that first of all, it requires a lot of work. It really does require a lot of work and no one wants to work hard. People are really into super fast solutions a lot of times because it is offered by society. A lot of times we hear, okay, get fluent in three months or this app is going to help you learn, you know, 100 new words every day and sound like a native in one week. So it feels like there is an easy solution at the tip of your fingers and you just haven't found it yet. But the truth is that it requires consistency and a lot of work. It does not mean five hours a day, but like just to show up for this work, even if it's 10 minutes a day. And I think that getting people to understand that and to fall in love with the idea, right? Because if they don't like the idea of doing something in English every day, it's going to be very hard for them to stay committed. So I think that is one of the first things that I see that pose a challenge when it comes to motivating people. But also I think that people forget why they do what they do really easily. Right? And they. Yeah. So has that happened to you?

I think yes. Because honestly, motivation is a very small, strange thing, especially in my country. Let me tell you something here. In my country, in Hungary, the people to finish the university, to get the degree in Hands. They have to have a language exam. That's the rule. Without a language exam, without that piece of paper, you can't get your degrees. And it is the motivation to have that piece of paper. So they invest a lot of time in learning, filling the gaps, exercises, opening books, doing the work to succeed in an exam situation. And then when they have the piece of paper, they close the book and they do whatever. But at the end of the day, is it enough? Is it enough to have that piece of paper? To invest all this time and money and effort and work just to have this? Because I think there could be something else behind. Because if I am a student here in New Sound, for example, and I'm following the community, I see that people sometimes have this very serious motivations to start a course with you. But then at the end of the day, it is not about the paper and academic knowledge, it is about connection between us, you know, and you get curious to know what the other people think and that keeps you motivated. So at the end of the day, I think that the right motivation will be something emotional, something about people other than pieces of papers or degrees or things.

I agree 100%. Yeah. And I think that this is the point, like understanding why you do what you do. And sometimes it's hard because like you said, why do you do that? To get, you know, to pass the exam. Why do you do it? To get fluent. Right. Okay. And then what, what would that give you? Like so that digging deep, right? Like really trying to get to this understanding, get them to understand why they do it. Not a lot of people are happy to do this process. Like, why is she, why does she keep asking me these questions? I just want to be fluent. But no, because if this is your goal, just like passing the exam, it's not enough because it's not going to keep you committed, excited about this work. Instead, like you said, I think this idea of connection, to be able to make true connections with others, this idea of self fulfillment, that this was a challenge and now it's no longer a challenge, like self actualization, that you are actually doing something that is important to you. Right? So it's only for your own benefit. And of course, you know, like the opportunities and the doors that English may open for you out there in the future. So even if it does not exist now, sometime in the future an opportunity will come and you want to be ready for it. But yes, like, I think essentially, you know, we need to get to a place where we were able to easily connect with people because Even when the opportunity comes, you want to be able to make that connection. You want to be able to show up authentically and as yourself. And to do that, you know, you need to do the work. So understanding that having a clear vision, having a clear goal can keep people more motivated. However, sometimes people are not really excited to do this type of work and they think it's just like there is no point of doing that. And I think that's something that can keep them stuck.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree with you. So I think it's someone finds the emotional connection with the language. You don't have to explain anything about that. So they just understand it and they don't waste time to do whatever, you know, for the language. Seriously, they just get involved in it and they just use it. You know, they just use it. I have another question to you, if you don't mind. What do you think? What is that moment when fluency starts?

Wow, this is a really good question. I guess for every person that might look like a different thing. But to me, the way I see it, fluency is when your brain and mouth is aligned. Whatever is happening in your brain, it is also expressed at the same time. And I'm going to explain. Fluency to me is not accuracy. It's not perfect pronunciation. It's not, you know, not making mistakes. So fluency is not flawless speaking. Fluency is when you don't. You're not behind, you know, the words that come out. You don't think about them. You don't think too much before speaking. You don't. You know, you. You're very present in what you're saying, almost to a place where you have. You're in the state of flow that you're not even noticing what's happening, you know, and then the conversation ends and it feels like, you know, no time has passed. That, to me is fluency. And it can happen with some people, while with others, you may not feel fluent. So you may feel fluent with a friend, and then with your boss, you may feel not fluent. So the goal is to reach fluency with everyone in your circle, your closer circle and your external circle. Right? Like that is the ideal. But it's okay if that's not the case because like you said, the emotional aspect of the language is unspoken of, quite frankly. And as a result, people don't consider that as part of their journey or as part of their learning process. So I do feel that understanding that a fluency is that when you are not judging yourself, when you're allowing Things to come out freely when you're not behind, when you are not ahead and you're not outside of yourself. And then at the same time that it's okay if it's a little different depending on the person you're speaking with.

Yeah, absolutely. You're absolutely right, Hadar. That was very even scientific explanation. Fluency. I'm not so specific in that, in my feelings. I think fluency happens in a second when you just forget that you speak actually a language.

Exactly.

You don't think about that. You just simply are involved in the conversation, in the situation, and you go with the flow and you don't think about the language and you don't listen to the person you have in front of you that he or she speak in a language in you and what expression or phrase or tense they are using in front of you. You are just want to get the message and you want to answer and ask question and answer and question. And so that's about connection again. And it doesn't matter if you make mistakes because it's about people and connection and relationship and the fun and the joy to having a nice time with someone. And I'm quite sure that even in this beautiful talk with you, I might make some mistakes. But at the end of the day, I think that you and me won't remember them after this interview or this talk. We will just remember that it was a great time to stay together.

Absolutely. And I can say the same thing about me. I a lot of times notice mistakes. But the thing is that like, you know that I'm making. Right. But in like I just move on quickly. And that to me is fluency. Like, you recognize that something is happening and you catch it, but then you just move on. Right. You don't get stuck on it. You don't feel insecure about it. You don't allow yourself to obsess about it while you're in a conversation with someone else. And I think that part of also being present for this other person and really listening to them is also a big part of fluency. Like being so at ease so that you don't even have to think about what you're going to say. You're able to just listen and like you said, not to think about words or phrases that they're using, but just to listen and absorb the experience and the content and enjoy the conversation.

Yeah, yeah, enjoy. That's actually the key. Enjoy. Not for practice because, you know, to practice, I think. And I don't know if you agree with me, I can Practice by myself. I can practice with my video camera. I can practice if I want, but I can be connected without the others. So it's exactly. I just talk. I just. I just have, you know, a partnership, a relationship. And that. It is not about practice, actually. It's about the personal connection and the emotional part of the language.

And that is the practice. Like that is how you practice fluency. Because yes, you can speak to yourself, to your phone, you can record videos, and that's a great method to do it. But it will never replace speaking to other people to improve your fluency. Because as human beings, we always. We're always consumed by thoughts about what the other person may think. About me, that does not exist when you make a video unless maybe you post it. But when you practice on your own, that fear that you have to manage does not happen. Right. So that you have to put yourself in situations where you speak with other people and you confront those fears and you learn how to let go of those fears so that you are fully present and expressive. And I think that again, like, people practice a lot on their own and. And they don't understand the importance of putting themselves into those situations that induce connections so that they can actually reach fluency. There is no fluency without the actual speaking.

Yes.

It's just a fact.

In fact, interaction must be a part of that. It doesn't. Must be.

Exactly. A language is designed to be spoken.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is not a piece of paper.

Exactly.

Really something. We be something. It's a life thing. Okay, let's move on. The next question. In one of last posts, in one of your communities, I can't really remember which one exactly, you asked a question what you take for granted. And that's such a beautiful question, Heather. And I just wanted to ask you this question. Is there anything you take for granted, granted, when it comes to languages?

Yeah, that's a good question. When it comes to languages, I think that, now that I think about it, even speaking English, I sometimes take it for granted because it's such a big part of my life, you know, and speaking English or the ability to communicate in English and to find a way to help people, because that's my mission in life. I was born. Really my passion in life is to really help people make a positive change in their lives. English has allowed me to do that. That's my purpose. And I think that I take for granted the fact that having this fluency in the language and all the journey that I've gone through has been the single most Important element of my entire life and business, you know, and journey in life. Because without English, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have this beautiful business and beautiful team that I have, beautiful students and ambassadors. Right. And it's not because I'm a good businesswoman. It's because of English first and foremost. Because reaching that freedom in English that has put this thought in my mind that maybe I can do something about it. Maybe I can help people, and then maybe I can grow and maybe I can build something that does not exist right now. Right. And all of that has happened. But yeah, ultimately it's because of the language, like the knowledge of the language. So I think that appreciating what languages you know, allow us and also appreciating just being able to speak no matter where you're at in a language is so incredibly important. And we need to remind ourselves of that all the time. And one of the things I always recommend my students who struggle with English or who develop this hate relationship with their English is to really start a gratitude journal where they every day have to write three things of, you know, the things that are possible for them today thanks to English, thanks to just knowing English, whether it's watching their favorite TV show without subtitles or writing a letter to someone, letters, an email, let's say, a postcard, or maybe even, you know, doing business, whatever that is. I think it's so important to recognize that. And I think it's a big part of our fluency, experience and journey.

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely relate to that. But I have another consideration, if you don't mind, because as I said, I was thinking so much how to answer to this question, you know, what to take for granted. And I thing that I take for granted my native language. I tell you why, because when it comes to speak, I don't know, Italian, English, German, Spanish, anything. I feel the passion how I want to be connected with others. I want to, let's say, provocate even native speakers in Italian, you know, to speak to me. I ask them a lot of questions in the supermarket here and there, just to have the connection with them, but I don't do that in my native language. And sometimes I feel that I have much better connections in other languages than in my native language. And why don't I put it into practice what I have, what I know, my experience of connection with others here in my country. Because sometimes, you know, especially in Italian, in English, it is not really the same thing. But in Italian, I definitely need native speakers around me to Speak, you know, and here in my country, I have a lot of native speakers. Why don't you communicate with them? So now, my previous mindset was that I have my native language. Okay. And then I have boxes for my other languages. Now, I don't make these two categories. I opened a brand new box for my native language. And I don't say, that's my native language. That's a language just like all the others. And I want to have the same emotional connection in this language than in all the other languages. And I am implementing this. It is not an easy task being a part of the community here in this language and have the same passion for that. But I try to do it because I know what a language can give me, and I know how I feel when I'm in Italy. I know how I am when I am in an environment, when I speak English. And that's a joy, just happiness, you know, And I want to move this even into my native language.

That is so beautiful. I love that. I never thought about it, And I agree 100% that when we learn a new language, like, we focus on so much on that new language. And yes, you know, everything that I mentioned. But yeah, like, what about our first language, which some people are unable to speak at all, you know, so, like, it's. It's like you have this ability that. This privilege that we forget that we have. We just assume that everyone has, and. Yes. And why, if we have that privilege, how can we really, really use it in the best possible way in this life that we have?

And when it comes to native languages, you know, there is also this myth about native speakers, and usually we non native speakers somehow think about them in a kind of negative way because we think that they don't want to listen to us. They judge us. And, you know, what do you think about this myth?

Well, there are several. Several ways that I would look at it. First of all, I think that a lot of times when we look at native speakers, it's like, you know, the authority, the power. Right. Of the language, people who hold the power to the language. And, you know, we're born into a society that has structure and has hierarchy, right? Whether it's at home, there's hierarchy, school, you know, your municipality, your country, there's hierarchy. And you learn, you know, status, social status. And we learn that we are always, you know, either stronger or weaker than others, depending on where they are positioned. And we bring that into the language as well. We bring that into the language, and then the native speaker is the authority, right? It's like the person in power who holds the, the language and we are just either borrowing it or we are always compared in relation to that speaker. Now, when, when a language is not your first language, there's always going to be a struggle. And that is okay because again, like, you know, if you are born with a certain disability, not that I'm saying that, you know, not speaking like a language is a disability, but when we think about it, when you're born without something, for example, let's say you were born without an arm, right? And then you have to function in this world like everyone else. You will have to do something to compensate. You will be able to do exactly everything as people who have two arms, but you will have to work a little differently to figure out how to find your way of moving around the world with just one arm, right? So totally different. I'm not trying to compare it, but I'm just saying that it's okay if it's not going to be exactly the same because you had to go through a journey to get to a place where you feel fluent, right? Which is something that does not happen to the native speaker. And the native speaker will never be, will never have the same abilities as you have in your own language. So to get started, it's okay if it's never, never, never the same experience. But second, having someone as a native speaker, it does not make them an authority or people who hold the power and the key to the language. That is absolutely not true. We're just bringing on these paradigms and these perceptions from everything else that we experience in life. Because we do that we always tend to feel, and this is a generalization, it's not for everyone, but a lot of times people feel inferior because of that, because they feel they're not reaching that level. And because of that, they may have certain self judgment or they may criticize themselves and they have that inner critic that keeps picking up on all the mistakes and all the places that they got stuck. What they might do is that they might project that on the people listening to them, native speakers in particular. That fear of, oh, that person is going to judge me. That person is going to think that I'm stupid is really a reflection of our own fears. It has nothing to do with the native speaker. We have, you know, made them something that they're like, you know, that that concept of native speaker, it does not really exist except for in our own head, because we need that hierarchy in our head to make sense, because that's you know, what we've always seen in our life, what if we break that? And what if we decide that each and every person using English is, you know, that is, that is the ideal. It's just good enough as it is putting the focus on clear communication, right? Delivering your message, being able to hear and understand and expressing everything that you have to express, right? So we do need to have some ground rules around what's good communication so people can communicate with each other. But it doesn't make you any less than, you know, someone who was born into the language. Now, I'm not naive. I know that people do suffer from discrimination. They're being ridiculed, they're being laughed at sometimes by native and non native speakers because of the language. And that's just people using the language to show power over you. And it's the same with any other situation where people might make you feel bad. It is wrong and you should not be around those people. And it has nothing to do with you, your self worth or your ability to communicate in the language. And it's important to remember that and not let that determine your idea of yourself or your image of yourself as a speaker of English as a second language. So whether it's true or whether it's not, it does not matter. It's what's important is how you see yourself and giving yourself permission to communicate freely without feeling like you're doing something wrong.

Yeah, I absolutely understand what you are saying. And I thought so much about this native speakerism and all these things and speaking with some newsstanders and students in English especially, I have heard a lot of stories about people that after a bad situation with a native speaker or after a bad comment, they just stop learning English and they have never opened their mouths anymore. And I just thought something that. Let's try to understand how it is when you are a native speaker and you have in front of you a person speaking your language. How do you feel? Honestly, I feel honored that that person learned my language and tried to speak to me. And I put all my effort to understand, especially if I'm a native speaker in Hungarian. You know, it is not an easy task. And I absolutely, when I find someone finally speaking my language as a non native speaker, I'm really honored to speak with. But just imagine what happens if you are not a person speaking languages and you have never tried to learn a foreign language. And for example, there is my mother, that's I think, a good example. She's a fantastic lady. She's beautiful. She's Everything for me. She's my mother, but she has never learned any languages. And just imagine her with all her life that in the street she meets someone willing to speak with her in Hungarian, a person from another country with that accent. With my mother just stopped and she doesn't understand anything. So it is not just she wants to judge that person. She's really honest. Sorry, I don't get what you say. And you as a learner, you say, oh my God, what's wrong with me? I'm not okay. But this person simply just don't have the discipline, don't have the practice in language. They don't want to judge you. That's a spontaneous reaction. And there was someone I spoke about this with a student, and she was a waitress in a restaurant somewhere in the US and there was a lady, a guest in the restaurant, and she wanted to speak with another waitress because she couldn't get what this waitress said. And that should have been a situation like this, that this guest wasn't bad. She was just in a situation as an English native speaker that she has never got the chance to learn a language. She doesn't know how it feels when you have to express yourself in another language. And it was just a spontaneous reaction. And sometimes it is angry, you know.

No, it's true. Yeah. So I think how it's communicated is very, very important. Right. Like if someone is being rude about not understanding you, then yes, like that person, they have a problem with, you know, other people with maybe someone who is different than them. But what you said is very true. A lot of times some of the responses of just like, do you mind repeating? Or I'm sorry, I don't understand you is very genuine. And you're right. It's because they've never had any experience with other languages and probably because they have never had a lot of interactions with non native speakers speaking that language. Because also I think that is a big factor in the U.S. again, we have students in the U.S. immigrants in the U.S. that sometimes moved from the east coast to the south of the US and they say, okay, back in New York, it was really easy for me because people understood me. There is a lot of variety and versatility and diversity around there and people are used to hearing different Englishes. But then when you move to a certain state where there are not a lot of immigrants, let's say, or a lot of non native speakers speaking, communicating in English, then people would have a much harder time hearing. And I do think that it's a responsibility of a Speaker in a way. Like, it depends on the generation, too, especially these days, to open up their ears and, like, be a bit more patient or a bit more open to different sounds. Because I think, like, our society is becoming more and more, like, diverse. There are a lot of connections, especially with the Internet, where the location, the physical location is no longer something that is determining who we're going to communicate with and the type of connections that we're going to have.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So I think sometimes it can break kind of negative belief that there is something wrong with me. It is not so just because that person didn't get me. Well, it is not. Not my fault. Maybe she's just. Or he is not really prepared to get me in the good way. So it is not that I'm wrong and I have to stop speaking English because it is bad and it is just to forget. And I have another story if I can share it with you in terms of pronunciation and the importance of these things. And I think that that's your mission, Hadar, and you do everything to improve our pronunciation and, you know, fluency and confidence and everything. And I had a very nice, let's say, experience about that. How important is that? Because, you know, I'm a tour guide. And when I finished New Sound with you the day after, I stand up with my microphone in Budapest, and I started to lead tours in English. And I've been doing that since. Since that, and everything was great. And I felt very comfortable in the situation with microphone. You know, outside, people stopped in the street listening to you. And there was a group, and I had just American native speakers. And I thought, okay, that's fine. Let's do the work. And we were in front of the basilica. And you have been in Budapest. You know, it's the biggest church in the city. And when I speak about that church, I have to explain them that that is just the church and it is not the cathedral. It is just a big church, because the cathedral is a different thing. And the biggest difference between these two kind of churches is that in a cathedral, there is a bishop. And this is not a basic word. And my pronunciation by that time was bad because I put the, you know, the stress to the second syllable. Shop. So it was this shop. And one of the tourists asked me back, sorry, gift shop. Okay, I thought, hang on a sec. Let's try to understand what's happening. And I asked what the problem was, because then I explained what the bishop is then. And then they discussed among them how they pronounced it in different ways. And I got that actually that was bishop up and not be sharp. And we laughed a lot together. And from now I pronounce it in a good way. And I'm so grateful that those people actually explained me this in a real situation because they really misunderstood me there. And it made sense to have a gift shop, you know, in a big church in the touristic center, usually there are gift shops and they couldn't get why is it so important there? So, yeah, I think these situations, if you go into. And I would have also stopped myself and say, oh, I was wrong, I'm sorry. But then I went into the situation and I asked them to help me. And I think that was a tour they will never forget.

I think this is such an important point because first of all, you learn something out of it. And I think. And they learned something out of it and it was such a beautiful experience for all of you. And I think that when for those who are listening and watching this or listening to this interview, I think it's how you handle challenges has everything to do with your success in the language. Right. So, for example, if you do say something that is misunderstood, you know, a lot of times people tend to just feel, you know, ashamed or that stresses them out and they just want to move on to the next subject and maybe figure it out on their own later. Right. Or just never think about that again. And I think just like, okay, wait a minute, let's dig deep, let's talk about it, maybe laugh about it, maybe, you know, ask questions. I think it is so incredibly important. And here's the thing about again, this idea of speaking to native speakers. They would be more than happy to help, especially in a situation where you feel comfortable with a person and they're not already rushing you or being unkind. But if you have a good connection with people, then you can use their help to improve what you need or to really have a better experience communicating. And I think that is so important. So thank you for sharing that.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you to give me this opportunity to speak about these things. Because I think that through my experiences in languages, other people can just simply forget their beliefs about being wrong in English or whatever. You know, it's because it is not about that. It's not about being wrong or not. It is about connection from where we started this talk.

Absolutely.

I think I have told you everything I think.

Or she. I think that this. This has been one of my favorite interviews, I have to say.

Yeah.

Because it really is not just about the language, but it goes far deeper. And I think people want to understand better about how our mind works and our psyche works when it comes to speaking a second language for other people too. Because we feel things and we think it's just us and it's just our experience. And then all of a sudden when we go out there and we make those connections and we see that more like it's not just us, other people feel that too. It gives this validation to those feelings. And then you're like, okay, so it's not just me and my weirdness. I can actually conquer it because I see that other people have too, when they confronted it. So I think it is so important to have these conversations. And Orshi, tell us a little bit about the communities that you're in and where people can find you if they want to connect with you.

Well, the easiest way is to join or New Sound, where I'm being very active. I'm leading sessions there. And you know, my superpower there is the one on one conversation. And I tell you why, because I think that if you have the private attention of someone focusing on you, that gives you an extra power. You want to give more about your stuff and you use the language more and more and more and more. And it is also, I think it's an ability, it's a kind of skill that you learn how to ask questions and be curious to the others. And, you know, the best of these sessions we have is that people come back to have the feeling again and again and again and be connected with others in a very safe place and somehow practice English. But we never speak about practicing. We're speaking about one on one with someone, you know. So that's fluency. I mean, so that's not about the language anymore. It's about people in front of you. And that's the sense of the language for me. So New Sound is a good point to find me and then I promise you that I will be also active in the other community you have Beyond. Because in New Sound I got a very nice experience with a kind of early bird session. And I would like to try this experience in Beyond. That's why you know that at least in my time zone here in Europe, before you start your day, it is so nice to have some positive vibe around you and start the day with a beautiful conversation in English. Why not? And all your day is going to be better than after. So I just would like to have this also in beyond with the other members.

Amazing, for sure. And I think that, like, when you make English, the means to get what you want, which is to make that connection and not the end like, oh, I'm just going to speak English for the sake of English. That's where you get surprised and find the magic of fluency. Without even, you know, without even working as hard as you thought you might need to. For sure. Orshi, thank you so, so much for this great interview. I really enjoyed talking to you and answering your questions and I appreciate you and everything that you've been doing for our students and very proud of you and your achievements. So thank you so, so much.

Father, thank you really so much for this opportunity to be one on one with you. Because you know, that's actually the sense of everything to share experiences, thoughts. And I think that we are very much connected ever since I have learned about you. I think that I would like to stay, you know, close to you anyhow at any time.

That is very, very mutual, my love.

Thank you for so much. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, that's it. Thank you so much for being here. If you enjoyed this interview, please share it with your friends and colleagues and students. And if you have any thoughts about any of the things that we discussed, feel free to share it in the comments below or send me a DM Hadar Accentsway so we can continue the conversation. If you want to find out about my programs, New sound and beyond, I'm going to post links in the description so you can find out more and maybe you can also reach a breakthrough just like or she did and join this important conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you Orshi for this beautiful, beautiful interview. And I'll see you all next week in the next video. Bye.