Beyond the Appliance: How MARPE Changes Breathing, Sleep, Speech, and Function

I feel like for anyone who's considering Marpi, it's so great to hear this because even though it sounds very barbaric and scary and are we insane for doing this, for me personally, it's been such a life-changing thing that I'm so grateful this is an option. It screws in your bone, it's in your skull, but the benefit is incredible. Opening up my nose has been life-changing.

Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Hallie Bulkin. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner, and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up-to-date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, airway, tethered oral tissue, and pediatric feeding therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019, thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode, remember to listen with correct oral rest posture: tongue up, lips closed, teeth apart.

Breathe through your nose. Let's get started. Hi and welcome back to the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Jeannie Nelson joining us. Jeannie is the founder of Breathe, Eat, Sleep, Talk, a speech-language therapy practice serving clients of all ages across Arizona. Her team specializes in myofunctional therapy, speech sound disorders, and feeding therapy using a personalized whole-body approach that addresses both symptoms and underlying causes. With advanced training in orofacial myofunctional disorders and feeding, speech, LSVT, and craniosacral fascial therapy, Jeannie and her team support clients with concerns like tongue ties, TMJ dysfunction, mouth breathing, articulation challenges, and feeding difficulties. At the heart of Jeannie's work is a commitment to helping individuals and families improve communication, oral function, and overall well-being through compassionate, evidence-informed care. But today we're talking about Jeannie's personal journey with Marpie, and you're going to get an update from both of us because we both started around the same time and we're both on our own journeys with different providers. So let's Tune in. Yay, Jeannie, welcome back to the podcast.

Thanks for having me.

I'm excited to have you back. I know that we're going to be talking about a topic that it's— we're going to be talking about our Morpheus, but we both have had different experiences in the approach to the treatment. And I think it'll be really cool for us to cross-compare for everybody so they can hear about this, because when you hear about an appliance, I think most people just assume, oh, there's one appliance, there's one way. But truly, yeah, similar appliance. But I think the approach was different between the providers that your provider in Arizona, my provider in Florida. So anyways, I would love for you to just do a little update, catch us up, because I know, I think last time we were talking— now, have we— I know we did it before you got your Marpi. Did we do it after you got it too?

I think we just did one, and you and I were both pre-Marpi. I think we were about a week or so before you were going to get yours. And then, yeah.

Okay, awesome. So then catch us up, tell us how it's going, because that was back, what, early August or end of last July? It's been almost a year since that all happened. And then I know you ended up getting yours about a month after I did, I think, right?

I did. Yep.

Okay.

That's exactly right.

Tell us about— yeah, tell us about your experience because I think everyone knows, but I'll remind everybody that I was Dr. Koval in Boca. I had 6 screws put into my palate with my Marvie. She did the piezocorticotomy where she split down the suture for me except for the front 8mm, which split on their own. And then I also went into clear aligners that she has printed it's different than Invisalign. They're thicker and I wear them like 24/7 outside of podcasting and eating. But yeah, I'm still in Clear Aligners. So that process is still continuing. I change them out once a week. But yeah, that's been my experience and yours has been a little different.

Yeah, no, and it's so fun to hear because like you said, one appliance does not mean the same journey for everyone. So I think I did get mine about a month after you. I got mine late September last year. I actually still have my Marpie in. I think I've adjusted pretty well to speaking, but I do still have it in. And I did not get the piezo split, so mine split on its own. And I had 8 screws for my Marpi instead of 6, and I started turning right away. So my turns the first week, I believe it was daily the first week or week or two. And then I went back, I think 2 weeks later, and he checked on everything. For me, the split was painless. The installation was not fun. But the split was painless. I didn't really notice anything. I noticed the small diastema, the small split between my teeth really quickly after. I wanna say it was even on day like 3 or 4, I noticed the little split. So I do think my suture split and then you and I both had our lovely like super large gaps. So we know we both got some space under our noses. But yeah, so that was how mine was. And then instead of clear, or I know not clear liners, but instead of Clear Aligners. What did you call them? Sorry, the—

Yeah, Clear Aligners. That's what she calls them. They're like— Yeah, she calls them Clear Memory Aligners.

Okay, so instead of that, I got brackets and wires. So brackets and wires have definitely been a fun experience in my 40s. I know you and I are both really close in age, so it's been interesting being in the brackets and wires. The main reason for my brackets and wires is at the same time my orthodontist is also treating my gummy smile. So he's also doing a gummy smile treatment. So I got extra fun and actually got 4 more screws put in my maxillary bone to pull my teeth up. So I know I don't even— yeah, so that's an extra fun step, but it's pulling my smile up so I don't have as much of a gummy smile. And I am noticing big differences in the shape of my face. And then definitely my breathing was almost instant. Like when mine split, I think you've talked about that too, but when mine split almost instantly, I felt better breathing through my nose. And just easier. I didn't feel as panicked breathing through my nose as I have my whole life. So it's been pretty nice.

That's amazing. Okay, so I don't think I realized that you were getting it in your, in your maxilla as well to pull. So that's incredible. Everything is looking really good from over here.

Thank you.

Thanks.

I love what I'm seeing for you. So, okay, you mentioned the installation was painful. And for me, the hardest part, the most painful part honestly, was the injections to numb me.

Yes.

That's what I mean. Yes.

Okay.

I was going to ask you, what was it that hurt you?

Like, what was it?

No. Yes, you're right. That's the worst part. The worst part was the injections. And those felt— I thought that was the Marpi going in. And he's like, oh no, we haven't put them in yet. And I was like, oh wow, because those really hurt. So shots on the top of your mouth, not so fun, but it was not painful after that happened. Obviously, it was weird having my mouth open and having someone drill into the top of my mouth. But I didn't really feel any pain. A little bit of pressure right away, like that next night. And I remember the next day I was pretty sore, but then 2 days later I was back to work and I was like fine doing pretty much normal things. I did eat kind of a softer diet, especially to start. I'm sure you did too. But really I was impressed with how little pain everything was other than the shots. But after that it was pretty painless. Yeah.

I would agree with that. I think for me too, it, it, that hurt and I was squeezing the hand dental assistant or whoever it was that was sitting there.

I was like, yes, are you him?

But then the actual installation of the appliance. So I felt pressure. You could feel the pressure, but it didn't hurt because everything at that point was numb, right? At one point in the back, maybe like the back, back left part of my palate. And when she was like drilling in one or two of the screws that I think there were like maybe two back there, she— I was like, and she was— I think they ended up giving me some more. I did another injection and because I was already numb but not fully numb, it didn't hurt as much, but it was still not pleasant. But yeah, honestly, that's That's the worst part of it. I didn't expect that. And I will tell you, when my appliance came out, there was no numbing. It was all just, they just removed it. And I wouldn't say it was painful, but there is again pressure. And because something is being unscrewed from your bone, it's like not the most pleasant feeling. But also in my brain I was like, it's coming out, I'm done. They couldn't get, so on my appliance, and I've learned they don't do this for all of them. And I can't remember if you've told me, I feel like, but I can't remember if they do this for you or not, they put composite on the end of the screws so that it doesn't scrape up your tongue. And so that was lovely. At one point I even went and had them add composite to a piece where it fell off because it was like scraping a lot of like this, you know how people do, because most people don't actually get that put on the end of their screws and they could not get it off one of the screws. So they ended up having, when they were removing the, they ended up taking out the other piece and then cutting the appliance. To get it out of my mouth just to then unscrew that last piece because I think it was like in the way or putting extra pressure on because that appliance was like, wow, one part. And so it was just a matter of a day to get that off so that they could then— it was a whole thing anyways. Wow. It came out and it wasn't extra painful or anything. It was just more— it took a little longer. But I went into that appointment. I didn't realize when I booked that appointment that was the day my Marquee was coming out. So I had zero preparation mentally and they're like, okay, so you ready for it to come out today? And I was like, what? I was like, I thought I was just getting more I was like, am I— and I actually had lunch with a friend scheduled for like afterwards. So I was like, am I going to be able to eat normal food?

Is this going to feel normal?

And they were like, just no seeds or anything too hot. No little— nothing that could get stuck in the site that needs to heal. But they're like, no, give it like 3 or 4 days and you'll be healed, basically.

Wow.

And I can feel bumps like where they were, like where the skin has healed and everything. But it's been totally fine. It's like the most mild thing. That's wild.

Oh, that's so funny. So I also— so the other piece to mine, it's my MARPI is still in, but I did have 2 of the screws come out. So because I had 8 instead of 6, he actually took out part of it a couple months ago. And I— and so it was the arms of my MARPI were taken out. So I still have the main area still in.

Yes. Yeah.

He took the arms out. So yeah. And so he took 2 screws out, so I kind of know what to expect. For me, it felt like a jolt of, ooh, that was a lot. And then it was done. Like, is kind of how it felt when they took it out. But it was kind of shocking to feel that pressure, like of the jolt.

Because again, we're under your inferior lip face, right?

Yes. Yes. It was very kind of shocking. So I'm definitely— it almost was like a tease for the next 6 to come out. And I'm definitely not looking forward to it. But I am looking forward to it to have my mouth back and not to have the marpie anymore. One thing you said too, I feel like we talk about it casually because we're in it now, but I feel like for anyone who's considering Marpi, it's so great to hear this because even though it sounds very barbaric and scary and are we insane for doing this? For me personally, it's been such a life-changing thing that I'm so grateful this is an option. And it's really— yes, it screws in your bone, it's in your skull. But the benefit is incredible. Opening up my nose has been life-changing for how I'm breathing, and I really feel like broadening our smile. You and I both had pretty narrow smiles, and I know your bite was kind of off, right? Do you feel like that's recovered?

And yeah, so it's— we're making progress. We're still working on it. But when I open my jaw now, it's a teeny bit to the left. And so with the clear aligners, what she's doing is actually helping shift the bite it's actually my lower jaw is— I guess my maxilla now is in a pretty good place and my lower jaw is a little bit off when I open. So if you watch, I'm going to— and yeah, he's watching, but I can actually slightly— and now it's aligned.

Oh yes, I see it. It's so close.

So we're basically— she's been like slowly through the clear aligners helping put everything in the right place, both upper and lower, by moving, I think, the teeth at this point, because my— I think the jaw itself is in a pretty decent place. It's maybe like a millimeter or two of movement over that will basically have me completely aligned. And I was so off before. And I even— it's funny because even after I got the split happened with the Marpi, one of the mentors on my team was like, oh my gosh, your jaw when you talk, it's moving more up and down and there's not a deviation when you're speaking anymore. And I was like, oh my gosh, you're right. I didn't even notice. And yeah, so I was like, that's actually really exciting because one of the reasons why I did this was, yes, nasal breathing, but also there were two times I woke up where I had— I couldn't open my jaw and it was almost like it was stuck shut and it was like in a lot of pain and I couldn't chew for like over an hour after I woke up and I was like, what is happening? And so just knowing what I know, because I've been thinking about Marpi for several years, I was like, shoot, I think this is the time. Like, this is— I need to do this now or my issues get worse. Yes. I'm like, I'm not willing to live with pain when I know there's another option to keep me out of it.

Yeah, absolutely. And same for me. I— mine was almost the opposite though. So my jaw, has been locked open a couple times, and same thing, I'm terrified of that happening again. There was one adjustment actually at the orthodontics where I experienced that, where my jaw kind of locked open. But I'm so grateful that I have all the tools that I have and the knowledge I have to help it. And then every client that I work with also has those tools. But for me, I had— I actually happen to have it with me, but I have a TMJ pen. Have you heard of That the TMJ pen device, it's like—

yeah, it's like a 3D—

it's so— I have it right here, so it looks like this if anyone's watching, but it's a heated and vibrating pen, and I bring it with me to my orthodontic appointments so I can help massage those muscles if I get into that. But because obviously it's muscle, but it is— it's also how our jaw is coming into itself and opening and closing. So I'm also hopeful it won't happen anymore, and it hasn't happened since. That was about 6 months ago or 5 months ago. It was in February. So I think, how long ago was that? 4 months ago that happened and it hasn't happened since. So I'm hoping that doesn't happen anymore for me. But yeah.

Yeah. Fingers crossed.

I know.

Question for you. Okay. So you didn't have the pessocorticotomy. I think that's actually where the pain came for me during the couple days after. And not, and it wasn't like that I was in pain, but I did, I had someone who's like super crunchy mom. She, I was messaging her on Instagram, same provider. So I knew it would be the same procedure and everything. And I basically was like, hey, any pointers, any tips, anything you recommend I do or don't do? And she was like, don't be a hero. She's like, I wish that I had— she's like, I wish that I had taken the Tylenol Extra Strength because she's like, by the time I took it, I was— the pain was too far gone. I couldn't come back from it. It was excruciating. And I think that's because like when you have an actual procedure where the piezocortical, literally cutting down the center of your palate, right? And it is, I think, guided or whatever it is. It's not— there wasn't really any blood. I don't know. I don't even remember how she did all this, honestly. But it was really cool. And she uses this printed guide. So it's very specific to my anatomy. So she's not just freeballing a cut down the center of the palate. Basically following my septum and she does all before to create your own personalized thing. So she is— it's this guided cut, if you will. But that's where I think discomfort comes in. And for me, I just milked it for everything it was worth. And I was like, I'm gonna lay in bed for 3 days. And I did not go to work right away. And I took my birth control pill. And I was like, I'm not going to be a hero. I'm just going to detox my body afterwards. And so I think it was fine. I never had excruciating pain, but it was very sore. And I could tell when the pain would have kicked in. In if I wasn't taking it because I could feel it was ramping back up. And I have— I was like documenting my, my response and symptoms and whatever else. But I didn't get anything heavy duty, right? It was nothing more than Tylenol Extra Strength. Did you end up having to take anything?

I did get a script from my doctor but took before my procedure and the way home I took it again and then I think I took it one more time, but I had enough for 5 or 6 days. I only took it that first day. Really, I think I just felt— it was just pressury. I definitely had a little bit of a headache. I— the other— I did the very next— I had a lymphatic massage to help with just everything, and she didn't do anything internal, intraoral, but the external. That really helped calm and relax everything. And then that weekend, I worked maybe 2 days that week, and then that weekend I had another massage and lymphatic just because I feel like the lymphatic system is so impacted when we're doing these crazy procedures to cut down the mid-suture of our bone. And so I think that really helped.

Yeah. Love that.

It's all such a journey and it's all, it all really impacts every part of our body when we're doing this. Right. I think it's more than just the face that's affected. So I've been trying to really focus on the bodywork side. Have you done any massages along the way with yours specific to— How your face is affecting—

Yeah, so I've done more of the lymphatic detox type of massages.

Yes.

At a couple different places. And I do just feel like keeping my lymphatic system in check, that's been super helpful. What was interesting was like going for a normal massage in the beginning when things were splitting or I was still turning it, I didn't wanna lay on my face. It wasn't comfortable. And arguably sometimes even comfortable to lay on the back of my head. There were certain times where I feel like the occipital lobe, things were like sore back there. And that was more in Pilates. Laying on the harder Pilates bed, like reformer bed. Yes, that part, right? But it was like I was laying on it, I was like, why does the back of my head hurt? That's weird. And then I was like, oh my gosh, the cranial bones are moving, the fluid is moving, maybe there's some inflammation there. And so I would do red light therapy and take some Arnica and just do things to try to decrease inflammation. And then yeah, when I added in the, the detox and the lymphatic type of massages, those there's one place I go where it's much— it actually hurts on the legs when they do it. So I don't love it there, but I get the best results. And I'm like, I can see that my body has literally let go of all the fluid. And then there's other places where it's way more gentle and I'm like, okay, I feel like I feel good, but my body does not look the same way as like when I go to the other place. And I'm like, I just, in my brain I'm like, is that better? Because I actually feel like all the fluid has left the building. Yeah, I don't know. So I did like a combination of those and I do think that has just helped the process because when I What— even when I was using like the DNA Vivos like years ago, I went to a PRI-trained PT and he would do things where he like brain maps and would then go down on the body and do a lot of what he called manual— he called it modern counterstrain techniques. So not your typical counterstrain technique that most people know, but like a different version of it. And he had his own integrated like approach as well that he was going to teach with another guy. The two of them, the two of them were doing, and literally I felt like my body had like a full body massage, even though he barely touched me when I would be in there and go to the specific spot, release whatever needed to be released. And then he'd be like, do you feel that? Like, I could literally feel the fluid like flowing again, like moving through my body. It was the wildest thing. So I'm like, I wish I had someone here like that, but I don't know anybody that does exactly what he does. So like, this felt like the next.

Yeah.

And it's still, yeah, super helpful. I also would use the shaky plate thingies. Because I felt like that helped get fluid out and, you know, between appointments.

Yes. I have a shaky plate thing too that I love. So I'm all for that too. Yeah, that's awesome. And I, so are you doing PT this time around or just from before? Do you revisit any of the things that he did before or not really?

So I'm not doing what he did specifically. I've just been doing the lymphatic drainage and those kind of detox massages. And then I ended up starting working with a PT, I don't know if 3, 4 months ago weekly because of my tailbone injury from 2022, right after I had my nasal surgery and everything. We were moving and I slipped. I was like packing and slipped on a shopping bag on the hardwood floor and landed straight down on my tailbone, partially because I was trying to protect my face because I had the nasal surgery and I was so afraid of damaging my face. I also had a rhinoplasty when I had my septoplasty, my nasal turbinates reduction and nasal swelling reduction. And I was like, no, my nose. Yeah. So I don't know what actually happened. It was extremely painful. And to this day, I would like, when I do Pilates, I have to be careful because I would get pain sometimes. It would become inflamed and I could feel the end of my tailbone on the other side of my skin. It's not curving the way it's supposed to be when you go into a C-curve position. Oh, with your core and everything. So anyways, I met this, this private PT who does, she's a pelvic floor PT and basically has really helped me rehab that area as much as I can. I'm guessing that when I did this, I probably— I could have possibly broken off a piece of the tailbone, and the way it healed, or I did something where the way it healed, it just didn't heal properly, and that's what's causing this. So it's greatly, greatly helped me to be working with her because I now don't have pain in, like, when I'm doing Pilates. So I'm like, I can tell functionally it's improved. I also learned that I was misusing my back muscles, my lower back. So I was— my lower back was constantly protecting my tailbone, and when I started working with her, I actually— my core was strong, but my lower back muscles were really fatiguing very quickly when working out and really hurting. I was really sore for a month and a half. It took a long time for me to start building up strength in my lower back. It was wild. And it just again reminded me like how the body compensates when it can't do something or to protect something, right? And then how when you're undoing all those compensations, how exhausting it is and fatiguing it is to have to like reteach the muscles to do their job. Like it was wild. So yes, I'm working with PT, but for kind of something else. But we all know it's so interconnected, right? So yeah, it's— but yeah.

Wow, that sounds like a terrible injury though. Oh my gosh. Like that sounds awful, but I'm glad you're with—

Yeah, don't recommend.

That's what's so amazing though about the therapy world is we can find specialists for all the different areas to help with all of this. So that's awesome that you have that. Yeah, and it has really opened my eyes even more to what we do with myofunctional therapy and feeding therapy. And it's really opened my eyes to like how important the structures are, but also the function and like the muscles. So when you move the bone and you move these structures, if you're not doing the therapy with it, how that can almost be detrimental to your progress or like not— it might not be as much as you wanted. So that's really opened my eyes. It's been It's definitely been a journey, quite the experience, like, like seeing how that affects how my muscles can function now that I have more space. So it's pretty cool, but it is also connected. Yeah.

And I think that kind of talks about like it ties into like what I was mentioning with how everything's interconnected and like this injury and the compensations and everything. Right. Exactly.

Yes.

Fascinating because one of the things for me, and I don't know how other people feel about this that don't have the composite covering, the ends of the screws of the Marpie, my tongue wanted to be up there. Once that sploocher— once that's— I just made a board. Once the sploocher happened, my tongue actually started pushing up against the Marpie. It wanted to be up there and obviously it couldn't. I'm like, I didn't have the softer little balls on the end of the screws. Like, that would have been really painful because I actually had indentations in my tongue from the composite that was on the end of each of those screws. And then as soon as the Marpie came out, my tongue went right up there and it has literally lived there since. And part of it again was because, hi, I live in the myo world, right? So like my tongue knows where it needs to be. Habitually, it's up there. Obviously, if I'm sick or something happens and I'm mouth breathing, then I'm like everybody else and my tongue falls low. But my tongue literally wants to live in the roof of my mouth now. And I'm like, it's so cool that it naturally went back up there and it has the space, right? It's no longer trying to curl into that little— yeah, finally.

Yes, yes. No, I feel like that too so much. And back to the composite thing too, I— so I also got composites for mine, but then they fell off and I did have them redo them once. And like, currently I think there's only maybe 2 left. I can feel it. And I've just adjusted to it. Like, I'm okay with the— because it is sharp, especially at first, but I think your tongue and your mouth just becomes desensitized to it and it's not as bad. But I cannot wait to get out of it and to be— and to join you with my tongue like comfortably resting in the top of my mouth, because right now it's still— there's still that barrier. But I do still feel my tongue going up, and you're right, my tongue has all the indents and all the things and the proof of the Marpi on there, so Yeah, I can definitely relate. Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

You mentioned, so you went back to work within a couple of days. How long did it take you to get back to eating your most favorite or most normal foods that were not like a puree?

So I still watch what I'm eating. So like I'm not eating all purees, but I don't eat lots of like heavy textured foods. So I'm not eating like a sandwich or a burger or Even salads I avoid still, which I love salads.

Those are the hardest, honestly.

Mostly because of my brackets. They are hard because like there's so many like little nuts and seeds and things. But I think mine's kind of a combo because I have the brackets. Like you have the benefit of being able to take it out when you're eating. With the brackets, it's definitely been back till— So I had brackets and wires previously. This is actually my fourth time in brackets and wires. And so I know it's quite the— so hopefully this is the very last time, but also testament to like why the myofunctional therapy and the muscle therapy is so important to, to as part of what you're doing. But so eating-wise, I still tend to try to find like softer foods that aren't going to get caught in my brackets, especially if I'm out with people. Like I'll stick to soups or just softer foods. Like maybe like an enchilada would be something that I would maybe be able to, like something softer, but I'm—

Yeah.

And I try to get it most. Yeah. So yeah. So I still adjust what I'm eating. And then I also have these extra TADS in here to adjust the gummy smile. So it's like this extra piece and those also, I just don't want stuff to get stuck between the, those TADS. So I still kind of watch what I'm eating, but It's okay. It's all like temporary and so worth it. So I'm okay with a little bit of a sacrifice for the foods. But yeah, I'm looking forward to having some of those when I'm done with the process.

Yeah, I will say even like with just the Marpi and not having obviously the extra TADS or having the— yeah, I still struggle to eat like salads and things like that because they just get stuck, right? And so if you're at home and yet knowing it's gonna get stuck, you can get up and go to the bathroom and like literally, you know, pull it out of your teeth.

It's great.

But I was like, yeah, go grab your Waterpik or something. Right. But I was not allowed to Waterpik. I think it was the first couple weeks because of the piezo protocol.

Right.

Because of the piezo. Yeah.

A week. But either way, yeah, because of the piezo, they were like, no Waterpiking. So I wasn't eating crazy foods anyways. I was sore. So that, but it was like an experiment cuz as you would eat things that maybe you didn't expect to get stuck up there, all of a sudden it's like, there's a little thing stuck here. And there was one point where something got stuck. I don't remember what it was, but a piece of something got stuck behind one of my back screws and like my pallet. And I had to physically go in for them to clean it out because I was like, this hurts. And it'd only been like a day. I was like, I have tried like multiple times between like yesterday and today to get it out. I can't get it out. And they're like, just come in. But it only happened once. I don't remember what it was. It was just weird that it even happened.

Yeah.

I don't hear that happening commonly with people, but it was very easy for them to just clean it up for me. And I think part of the reason too was it was like in the back. And because of where it was, I couldn't get in there the right way without a tool. And I'm like, obviously to visualize that yourself and try to do that, it just wasn't happening.

It's so hard.

So that was a little annoying. But aside from that, it wasn't horrible. I will tell you though, there were times where I was like at a business dinner or I was like with people that I barely knew and I ate something that maybe I shouldn't have that I thought was gonna be okay.. And then I literally was just speaking with stuff stuck between the appliance and my palate. And I was like, this is the worst feeling in the world. Because even had I gone to the bathroom, I'm still not sure that I would've easily gotten it out.

Yes.

Really digging it out. Yeah. I got—

Yes. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's so awful.

The craziest part was my kids had expansion before I got my Marpie and they would sit at the dinner table and go, and I get it. It's like trying to use the pressure to push stuff forward out of the appliance.

Yes. It's just not staying.

Stop it. Why are you doing that? Our table— go to the bathroom if you need to do that. And then we— I literally got the appliance and I was like, I get it. You literally would have to get up from the dinner table 15 times in like 2 minutes. Yes. Yeah. She— in the beginning as you're adjusting. So I'm like, I actually apologize. I was like, I'm so sorry, guys. I get it now. I totally get it. My bad. Yeah.

Yes. And on that note, I think it's so cool being in this as a therapist and then also having kids of my own who are in expansion. Because I can relate. I really understand what they're going through. I'm like, you need to do that, I totally understand, I do the same thing. Or like when something's up there, how it just bugs you, like when you're talking, like, because no one else can see it or hear it or feel it. No one else knows except you, but it really is a huge— I don't know, a huge sensory thing almost. Even if it's a little piece of chicken or a piece of lettuce, which is why I don't eat salads anymore, but because it really gets stuck there and it just like dangles and you cannot get it unless you have the right tools. Waterpik has been a s— so helpful for me, which I was able to use it the whole time, but Waterpik has been amazing. And then I have those little pipe cleaner things, but I feel like they need to invent something with a softer tip. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because those pipe cleaner things are great for braces, but for the Marpie, it needs a softer edge to it because I'm always afraid of poking the top of my mouth.

Yeah, I'm sure.

Yeah. So maybe we can invent some kind of thing that is specific for me.

Please.

Yeah.

Yes.

Just to clean it out.

But I also feel like that would be really beneficial for any kid in an expansion device because when you go, when I would go up there and try to clean out stuff that was stuck in my girls' appliances, they would complain sometimes that it hurt with using those little typey cleaners.

Yes.

And I did get one that was like all like flexible. I know it's like rubber or plastic or I don't know what, whatever the material is, it's not the like brush feeling, it is a little different. That was a little better, but it's still like, that tip is still pokey. And if you like hit it on the wrong angle, they'd be like, ow.

And I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to hurt you.

And it wasn't again until like I had kids in it and then had it myself that I was like, yeah, because it's like, it helps, but it's not like the final solution, I feel. Yes. So I do feel like there could be a better tool that somebody could create and, you know, to support people with these.

Yeah, no, that'd be nice. And I hope, I really hope that expansion becomes even more the norm, like even at younger ages, because it has been there. Like expansion's been there for a long time. Like I had, I had my first expander when I was in second grade, so it was pretty early, but it didn't do the full job. And then when you don't have the therapy to back where our tongue's supporting to keep the growth, you still need it later on and it still doesn't grow the way it should. But Yeah, I hope that it becomes more of a norm. So I hope someone does create something that's just easier to clean out all that gunk because it's not fun. But it is such an amazing experience.

Like the things that get stuck, right? You're like, oh, I'm eating chicken and I'm chewing it normally. Like a little tiny little slippery piece of that chicken gets stuck in like the weirdest place. And it's like to get it out is a— it's a process sometimes. Sometimes it's really easy and sometimes it's just not. Yeah.

Yes. So yeah, I know.

I totally agree. Be aware that's the case.

And yes.

Did it affect your sleep at all, either positive or negative?

Yes. So I'm actually amazed. So I wear an Oura Ring and I track it that way. My sleep scores before the Marpi were never, not never, but rarely above 60 or 70. My sleep scores were pretty bad. You want them, I think 100 is the best sleep score, but you want your sleep scores in the 90s. And now consistently my sleep scores are in the 90s. Which is fantastic. I also— so another part of mine is my jaw was just so high and narrow. It was super high, and this has definitely widened how, like, how wide the base of my nose is. Like, when they did the follow-up CBCT scan, it's so much wider, and I can feel it. My nose breathing has drastically changed. I don't feel as suffocated when I remember first hearing about nasal breathing and being like, you've got to be kidding, that's crazy. I would never tape my mouth shut, I would never do these things because it sounded scary to me because really nasal breathing was that hard for me to do. And now I, now with this I feel like I have a new nose, which is so amazing. So I think it's drastically changed my sleep and nasal breathing and just it's easier to keep my lips closed. I think some of that is the gummy. I wonder if some of that is the Gummy Smile treatment, but just because it's pulling everything up, so it's easier to keep my lips closed. Where with just myofunctional therapy alone, or just trying to get that in the right place, was— it was too hard for me to get that, that push. So I needed the structural change to really adjust that. So I don't know. What about for you? Have you— has your sleep changed?

I do feel like I feel more rested when I wake up, and I'm not actually tracking it. I don't wear any sleep devices or anything. But I always woke up feeling a little tired and then I thought it got better. It did get better after my nasal surgery and then I felt like it fell back a little bit into— I wasn't exhausted waking up, but I also felt a little tired. I've never— not never since having children, breastfeeding and all that, not sleeping under my eyes. I really haven't had bags under my eyes. And it's interesting because we were at Sephora with my girls and my husband. One of my daughters had a yes day on Sunday and I love that they wanted to go to Sephora. And so we go and they're looking at all the clean makeup stuff and I'm like looking at the pimple patches and I'm like, there was this one brand they sell at Sephora that I really like. And so I see they have like all these under-eye patches and my husband's like, what is that? What are the— I'm like, oh, people wear this all over their face. There's really— I was like, there is some merit to wearing these patches and having peptides in them and, you know, using tape on your face and everything and all that fun stuff. I was like, but I was like, that's the one thing I feel like I don't need is are these under-eye patches. And he was like, you actually don't. And I was like, thank you. I was like, cuz everything else on my face feels like it's falling down. But I was like, thank you, gravity. I'm like, but that I don't have any puffiness under my eyes. I'm not like dark under my eyes. And I feel like a lot of that has to do with the Marpi and how I'm sleeping and breathing. And I really hadn't stopped to really consider that yet because it wasn't always that way, right? My face was a lot puffier and my— I do feel like my inflammation overall in my body has decreased a lot. And yes, because of breathing and decreased inflammation and I feel like I'm using Pepti— a peptide stack. I'm using a couple of peptides and everything. And so I feel like a combination of all of these hacking your body and everything, hacking your health has really helped me get better sleep. But I was already sleeping better, breathing better before I started using some of these peptides and everything. But yeah, it's just been fascinating to see it all. So fascinating.

Yeah.

For the better. Yeah.

So on that note, I want to say something about my eyes also, the bags. So I did used to get that really bad. I think mine's definitely improved. But one interesting thing with my eyes is I wear glasses for double vision. So after my first daughter was born, my eyes started like having double vision, and I have to have a prism in my lens to help with that double vision. And that has actually changed. So I had my eye doctor appointment in May. I know this, and this is an unexpected change, right? I was like, how is this even I was not expecting that. But if you think about it, the maxillary bone goes all the way up under your eyes. So to your point, the dark circles and then just— but my vision has changed. The script on my— the double vision script has changed just from the MARPI, which I mean, I can't attribute it to anything else. And again, I don't think of that. There's the residual effect, little bonus. And so I have done some vision therapy. I'm going to go back to vision therapy, another therapy that we have to do. But I'm going to go back to that to hopefully correct that fully. But it has improved quite a bit. So pretty interesting.

Yeah, I know. I've actually heard about vision changes with Morphe and everything because like you're talking about that nasomaxillary region. Yes, it's right. Orbits, right? And so because the maxilla is part of the floor, I think that's so cool to hear this actually happen. There's, there's obvious skeletal changes. We can see it in your in your face. Obviously, CBCTs confirm it and everything. So I think that's really very cool that it's— yeah. And also, like, I just wonder too if it's like reducing certain compensations that may have been in play, inflammation, like how your head and your neck were postured and positioned and the airway in relation to all that strain it would put on your eyes and any pressure. It's like all these different things. I know that Morphe is not necessarily like a solution for vision problems, but I have heard other people tell me they're like certain vision issues have improved.

Yes.

Because the interconnectedness of some of these other things.

Yes. Which is so cool. The maxillary bone is such an underrated bone that we don't put enough focus on, but it really impacts your whole— not just the aesthetics of your face, but how you're breathing, how you're seeing, how— like everything. So very cool how it does that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is there anything that was like worse than you expected during this whole process?

Honestly, I think that— I think we've already talked about it, but I think the food has been like the worst. Just all like getting food stuck up there. And then my speaking I didn't love. I still notice some differences in how I'm speaking, which drives me nuts as a speech therapist, but I think that I might be extra sensitive to it. I don't know. I think those are— thank you, thank you.

I'm trying. I definitely hear you. Yeah, I felt the same way. And then when my Marvie came out, I was like, oh my gosh, my speech feels so much clearer immediately. And I'm like, everyone's like, your speech was clear before it came out. I was like, no, it wasn't, guys. I could hear the difference.

I agree. I think your speech was fine too.

And I sounded like I had marbles in my mouth.

Yes, that's how I feel. I still feel like I definitely have this big— I can hear it so much in my speech. But I have had people say, oh, I didn't realize you had something in your mouth. So I got that too.

People were like, wait, you have what in your mouth? Like, it was almost like the party trick. We were at my And my husband switched law firms. We were just meeting a bunch of lawyers for the first time at their partner retreat a couple months ago. And I'm sitting there talking, we're drinking, eating, socializing, and I'm having this conversation. And like all of a sudden one of the guys, very health-oriented, very into a lot of this stuff. And I was like, oh, myofunctional therapy. He's like, wait, tell me more. So we start talking and then once I felt okay, I could probably surprise him with what's in my mouth and not him think I'm totally weird.

He said something.

I was like, oh, I actually have an appliance in my mouth right now. It's screwed into my palate. And he was like, what? He was like, I want to see. So I was like, there might be food in it. I will show you. And I showed him. He was like, that's wild. He's like, you would never know. Your speech is totally fine. You can't see it on your face. I'm like, I know. It was so funny though, because people are like, I would have never guessed that you had anything in your mouth. And I'm like, I know. You just get really good at compensating and speaking around it. But I just think because we know so much about where our tongue should be and we're like not used to having something in our mouth prior to the Marpie, that's where as speech pathologists, I think we're sensitive to that because even the slate smallest degree of change and we notice it. And this is a massive change from what our homeostasis is.

Yeah, no, I agree. I think we're definitely hyper-aware, but it, it's really amazing. Yeah, no, I'm— and so for me, having the brackets and wires, a lot of people assume it's just for aesthetics, just for look, and people are like, oh, good for you getting braces, changing your smile. But really it had nothing to do with that for me. I'm really grateful for what it's doing for aesthetics. I feel like I'm more symmetrical, I feel like my face is more— it's just more defined. It's more— it's wider, but in a good way. It's wider and more symmetrical, I think, is what it's done for me. And then my smile is just so much wider. So I love that I don't have the pockets anymore. You can really see all my teeth. And so I'm excited for the end results. Yeah, I know. Isn't it nice? You can see all the teeth fill your smile. Yes, I know. It's amazing, right? Because we both were pretty narrow. Even though we had tried other things, we were still pretty narrow. So It's really amazing what it can do. Yeah. Yeah.

So cool. Anything that was like easier than you expected where you went into it and you're like, oh, I thought this was gonna be a big thing, but I'm actually like, okay, it's fine.

That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I think, I guess the pain, like I, I think I thought it was gonna be really painful cuz you hear, okay, you're gonna get screws into your bone and this is gonna happen. And I really feel like it has not been.

That.

Like, it's really— it sounds so barbaric. Like, it sounds so like they're gonna put screws in your bone and in your skull, but it's really not that bad. And the pain has been so minimal this whole time. Like, I'll get a little sore when I go in for the adjustments. I'm sure you get sore with like new trays, right? Like, it's sore, but it's really not that bad.

Yeah, it's really not that bad.

A little sore.

It's honestly like the first day. But these— so what's really cool about these trays is I'm sore, lazy. I'll tell you why. Because I can take the trays, I can heat up some water and then drop the trays into the water and it makes them like moldable. And then I put them on my teeth and then it starts moving my teeth accordingly. But when I immediately put it in, I'm not sore. The next morning I might be a little sore because it was doing movement overnight. And I usually put the new trays in at night. I do it every Friday. But if I'm lazy and I'm just like brushing them, washing them and putting them back in my mouth and I've had them out for an hour because I was eating and maybe things started actually shifting a little bit or let's say I'm podcasting today and I haven't worn them for 4 hours and I go put them in afterwards, it will feel tight and then I'll feel sore because I'm like forcing it back in and things have already started to shift a little bit that quickly. Interesting. Because it's like, yeah, if it's like the newer tray towards like the beginning of the week versus the end of the week. And, and arguably, and she was like, oh, I do that too. It's fine. Don't stress. But yeah, like I don't always have access to warm water. Like I don't have access to like hot water and I don't want to be dunking my thing in hot water and then pulling it out with the end of a fork and the whole thing. So do that sometimes and then it's like more sore. But yeah, it's so minimal though. Like honestly, the funny part is she said to me, she was like, men usually complain of a lot more pain than women do. And I think it's just like how men perceive and interpret pain and how we perceive. And I feel like the women, the woman's body is like more readily available to withhold the pain. And because we've had much more painful things in the past, this doesn't feel like a lot to us.

I completely agree. I actually, I have a few patients in Marpi that are men, and when I tell them about my experience and they share theirs, it's like, it seems drastically worse. Like, there was one who was like, my whole bone was fractured and this was so traumatic, and I was like, I'm pretty sure the same thing happened to mine. And because again, it's just, it's, it was funny hearing the perspective and how he was describing it. I was like, yeah, I had the same procedure, and like, it really— but yeah, so toughen up a little bit. Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. So yeah, but it's really not that bad. Like, I'm actually blown away. So one thing that I'm wondering is with your trays, how long will you have trays and what is the timeline for you?

Oh gosh, I forget what she told me. I think she had said that I might still be in trays for maybe a year after the Marpi came out, or maybe a total of 2 years. And I was in the Marpi from August till maybe early Was it early June? End of May? Might have been end of May. So yeah, I— yeah, it was middle or end of May that I got it out. So it'll probably be another maybe arguably year and a half or just under a year and a half or maybe a year from August. I think I probably have a little over a year to go at this point.

Okay.

Just in the clear aligners. Because I was told it'd be like 2 years all in. Oh, and that she usually leaves the Marpi in for— she was like, sometimes it's 8 to 10 months, sometimes it's 10 to 12. It really just depends on the person. The other thing that was really interesting too, was like we had this conversation around the thickness of the palate and this ties back to— and we'll go back to your timeline in a minute too. Yeah, but the palate— and I think she was also telling me that in men, I think the palate is a lot thicker in certain parts. And I think that it might be more painful. And also sometimes it's thicker towards the back versus the front or vice versa. She had said to me because she was worried about since I had had the— not the, the other ENT procedure, Since— no, since I had a nose— yeah, see, she was like worried about the changes in my nose and if my nose would get too wide and if it would distort my results. And I was like, listen, in all vanity, I really don't want to change the way my nose looks. I'm very happy with it. I'm like, but I also want to be healthy. If it changes a little, I'm okay with that. And she was like, we just also have to be careful that it doesn't collapse anything in your nose because you've had the rhinoplasty in addition to the septoplasty and everything else. When she looked at the thickness of my palate, I think mine was closer to the thickness of a male patient versus most female patients. And she was like, this actually really benefits you that it is this thick because it gives you a really good base to protect the nasal cavity. And so she was like, I'd be more concerned if your palate was thinner. And I was like, okay. I didn't really knew it all. I didn't really understand what all that meant, but I do have to wonder if the thickness of the palate also impacts the level of pain and how long it takes for that suture to split. I would imagine that all has a lot of relation to why. Yes. Okay. Men that go through childbirth and they don't have all the same levels of pain tolerance as maybe we do as women. I also think there may actually be an anatomical physiological reason for them. I mean, more pain than we do with this. So I'll give them that.

Fair, fair. But I think men are still babies. I don't know.

Hi, the common cold is basically their life is ending. So 100%. Sorry if you're listening, but it's true.

Yes. No, and interesting about the bone too, so that's why my orthodontist did 8. So he doesn't always do 8 TADS, but mine did need the 8 screws because I think my bone was so thick too. So I had— I have 3 down the middle on each side, so 6 down the middle, and then 2 more that were like more external closer to my teeth. And those I remember were the 2 worst ones going in, and they were the 2 that I got out first, and I was really grateful when those came out because those ones were more uncomfortable. But so I think there's something with that too. And then also he wasn't doing it, so he also has said— because I'm wondering what you're like— he said that he does more piezos with men too. I think he tries to do it with the screws, but the piezo split too, I think, also gets it done quicker and you're sure it's split. Because I've— have you heard much about people who don't have their sutures split?

I haven't heard much about that. I feel like in her cases, and that's what I've followed most closely, yeah, you can see it. You see that diastema, it is wide. You know that the sutures split, otherwise there's just no way that it would look like that because you're not actually pushing on the teeth. She's not using braces, right? And at that point, she's really not doing too much in terms of actually moving teeth that early on. We have the clear aligners in, but your clear aligner matches like where your teeth are sitting and you have even a diastema in the clear aligners. Yeah. And then it's interesting, she starts to slowly move the teeth and diastema becomes smaller and smaller because she's actually physically moving the teeth within the bone, right? At a very slow rate. So that was very, it was very interesting to go through that whole process. But yeah, no, I think it's fascinating, right? Because I think there are different ways to basically approach the same case. And so like my arms, when they got cut off of my teeth from my Marpi, like there was no screw attached to the arm. Arms directly. Got it. And it was very easy. Oh, we just took those out, that was done. And I would imagine that because just like the amount of bone— yeah, you're going straight into bone in the roof of your mouth, but I just— putting my tongue over on the sides of my maxilla, I just feel like it feels sensitive than going straight up into the roof of my mouth. Yeah. So I'm like, yes, sounds like it'd be so much more painful.

It was very painful.

Yes.

Yeah, it was not fun. I know. But do you know what's so funny is I think you and I both cringe about different parts in our stories, but being through it, we're both like, it's not that bad.

It's not that bad. We did this.

We really did this. Yeah. I do think to whoever's listening and maybe considering Marpie that like, this is, it's really so life-changing and in such a nice, beautiful, pretty easy way. And really to, to trade off a year or two of your life to expand and get your teeth and your jaw and your nasal passages working in the, in an optimal way, it's so amazing that we're able to do this without surgery, without screwing our jaws shut, without doing so much more of what it could be. So I think it's pretty cool that it's available to us. And even though it sounds so invasive, it's really not that invasive. It's not that bad, right? I don't know.

When you compare it to like jaw surgery, like it's not invasive at all, right? Jaw surgery, people who've had jaw surgery, it is like you're talking like 8 weeks before you can start to eat. Drinking a liquid diet and it's really painful and that is so incredibly invasive. And honestly, breaking the jaw and advancing it forward also does not necessarily help with all of the— all these other issues. And you still have a lot of therapy after jaw surgery. Yeah, it's not— it's not the end all be all. Listen, I'm not downplaying it. Some people need it and absolutely, like, absolutely.

Yeah.

But if, like, we can avoid that level of intense intervention, then, like, less is more when possible.

Absolutely.

This feels like such a great option for people who are candidates. Is there anything that you would recommend to people to have on hand before they go in? Because I just, not that I didn't feel prepared, but I was like, I was talking to other people and that's almost like where I knew like what would be helpful to have on hand. Yeah. And then I did ask Ortho and they suggested some things too, but anything you would be like, you gotta have this.

Yeah. So number one, I would ask for the pain meds or have the Tylenol on hand. Cuz like you said, this is not a time to be a hero and to push through the pain, take the medication that's available because we're causing injury to your bone. So I think that's a big one. Another one is I had a nervous system calming device with me called the Pulsetto, and that was extremely helpful. Have you heard of that, the Pulsetto?

I actually bought one and then I never used it.

You should use it. Oh my gosh, use it. No, use it. It's amazing. So I had it on during, like, before and during my procedure. So what it does is it activates your vagal nerve and it has different settings, and one of the programs is actually for pain. And so I had that on and like I just kind of had it on repeat. Like, I had my phone kind of with me while he was doing everything and I would just repeat the pain setting. I think it ran for 20 minutes and that was extremely helpful. I also brought along with me just so I think just like any vibration tool. So like aesthetics have those vibration tools, and he used that on the top of my mouth. It felt really weird, but when he was doing the injections, which I think helped too— do you know what I'm talking about? I don't even know what they're called, but it's like a vibrating tool that like if you get like lip filler or Botox or whatever, like the, the esthetician will use like the vibrating tool along your face before they do the injection, and He has one too that helps.

Yeah, so I've never had like a, yeah, so I've never had that one.

No, I haven't either, but I know that they use them. So like I, because I've bought them for like people who get a tongue tie release or a lip tie release to even just hold in your hand. Because if you're holding that vibration, that can help with the pain sensors in your brain just to focus on something different. So I think those are the main ones for me. What about for you? Are there any that I didn't mention that you like?

No, I think the biggest thing to have on hand is just that Waterpik. I feel like the Waterpik is such a lifesaver when you like— definitely have one of those as soon as you're allowed to use it. Like, obviously if you don't have the Piezo, you can use it right away. If you have the Piezo, I think I had to wait just a week before I could start using it. But I was also, because of the Piezo, eating such soft foods too that like I wasn't really eating stuff that would get stuck. I did try to eat eggs though, and thinking they were soft enough and they really get stuck up there. So I was like, we're going to hold up on that for a week.

Yes.

But a lot of puree and liquids to begin with, just to make life easy for me.

Yeah. So I thought you were talking about like just like the installation part, but yes, the— so my orthodontist actually gives you like a bag when you come, and it includes a Waterpik and a toothbrush and like all the cleaning supplies. Like, it's this beautiful— it's an amazing little like kit that you get when you get your Marpi. So Okay, it had a Waterpik in there. But yes, I think having a Waterpik— I also in my bag, I have a little bag that I carry within my purse that has just all the like cleaning things and a mini mirror and like just little things to help when I'm out and about, like if I need to clean anything out. But yeah, the Waterpik is definitely a number one. And then just after adjustments, like you said, like I take Arnica or just something under my tongue just to help with the pain, just to help take the edge off. But yeah, that's kind of it for me.

Amazing. Yeah, I know. I got a special toothbrush and paste and stuff, but I think that was because it also went with my, my clear aligners.

Oh, yes.

Yes, I didn't. Yeah, no, I did not get a Waterpik, so I'm like, that's a nice little, a little add-on. And I did end up buying one. It's so nice. I bought one that's a mobile one, like it doesn't have to plug in. You can charge it. And so I'd be able to travel with you.

So it's—

Yes, it's a decent size. It's not like the big clunky, whole big thing. It's just a hand-held.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. So super easy, portable, and I wasn't putting it in my purse necessarily, but like when traveling I could pack it and take it with me, which was important because obviously I wanted it in a hotel with me and having it available, which was really nice. So that was probably my most favorite tool. It's so funny though, cuz I, I actually think I bought the Pulsetto. I think I bought a couple of them and then I returned them. I like, as I'm thinking about it, I'm like, I don't even think I still have it sitting here. As we're talking, I'm like typing in Pulsetto, maybe I should my daughter's working with functional medicine, my younger one, and she's like, oh, she should do vagal nerve stimulating activities. Yeah. Like, I'm like, okay. And we're just talking about gut health and skin barrier stuff and just the vagus nerve. And I was like, she— my kids literally go around the house humming and singing at the top of their lungs all the time.

They're making noises all the time.

Yeah.

Doing all the great things they need to be doing. But I was like, maybe that's something I should get. If not for me, definitely for her to be using. I think that would be cool.

Yeah. Yes, get it. Let's try it. If you have it, definitely try it. I think it's well worth the purchase and it's really— I think it works best for nervous system healing if it's used daily.

Yeah.

But the pain one really helped a lot. So much. My orthodontist even purchased one for his office and he uses it now. So, okay.

That's cool.

Yeah. No. Yeah.

Amazing.

All right.

I will message you later. I'm like, I wanna know which one you have.

Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you all the things.

Yes, all the things. I know that's awesome. I have a Prime sale right now, so I love this. I love like when people do their own Prime sales because of Amazon Prime. So they want you to order directly through them instead of through Amazon. So it's like they're all— Yes, everyone's like, we're doing our Prime, not Prime sale right now. And I'm like, okay, this is great.

No, it's awesome. I'm like, all the sales, please. We all need help with sales. All the sales we can get right now.

Yeah.

Any excuse.

All the things. Amazing. This is so good. Is there anything else you want to share about your process or your journey that we didn't talk about?

No, I think we've covered all of it. I'm just, I'm amazed at just especially the unexpected changes, like the vision, the sleep. I'm really looking forward to the end result. I'm so grateful to my orthodontist. The orthodontist I work with is Dr. Nichols. He's in Queen Creek, Arizona, and he's just incredible. I'm just, I'm so impressed by him and his team and how all of this is managed. So I think that's my last word that I'll say about all of this, but I'm just so grateful for this. I love it. I love it.

Thank you so much for rejoining me on the podcast. And I mean, you do all the feeding in Mayo and all that stuff. So where can people find you in case they're like, oh, I want to follow you online?

Thank you so much. So my Instagram handle is @thebestmayo and it's not— I'd like to think I'm the best, but it stands for breathe, eat, sleep, talk. And so that's also my website. So either the best mayo or breatheeatsleeptalk.com.

Love it, love it. All right, thank you so much for rejoining me.

I— thank you so much.

Good to see you.

You too. Thank you so much. Have a good one.

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