Clinical Growth & Confidence | The Untethered Podcast: Expert Highlights

After each session, I want you to ask like, what works? What didn't? What will I do differently next time? Each time you do this, you're going to build speed. You're going to build intuition. It's going to become easier, right? That, my friends, is how you go from anxious to aligned and from doubting yourself to diagnosing and assessing with confidence.

If you take Hallie's course, you're going to see that there's a need to be filled. And when you start to fill that need, you're going to see there's a bigger picture. And once you start to step into that bigger picture, guess what? And even bigger picture.

I'd rather someone be referred to me and me say, you don't need therapy right now, but here's what you can do at home and come back and call, than someone to slip through the cracks and be Bob coming in.

If you've ever looked at another therapist confidently treating feeding and thought, I could never do that, this episode is for you. Because I was you, and today I'm pulling back the curtain on how I became a pediatric feeding therapist, the roadmap I wish I had when I started, and how to overcome that imposter syndrome that tries to keep you small. This is your 2026 Feeding Therapy Roadmap and your reminder that you're absolutely capable of becoming the confident feeding therapist that your clients need. Let's rewind to to where this all started, because I definitely didn't begin my career as a feeding therapist. I started out as a speech therapist in the schools, and I loved the work that I was doing, especially like early language and all that. But then I saw that kids were struggling with more than communication. I also had an entire caseload of kids dropped onto my lap unexpectedly. I had asked to work with feeding cases. They said, we don't do that in this school. Somebody went on maternity leave, and all of a sudden I had 12 kids added to my caseload. That I didn't have the week prior, and they all had feeding goals. And I was like, okay. Anyways, fast forward, I went, I worked in the schools for a couple years. I went to infants and toddlers, and then when my contract was done, I left. And so I took a little time off and then moved into private practice. And in private practice, I pretty quickly started seeing some of the same patterns that I saw when I was working with kids in the schools. Drooling, open mouth posture, picky eating, difficulty chewing, like all signs of something deeper. Okay. And I realized, I actually had already realized this, that no one had taught me feeding, not in grad school, not in my, not in my school job. And so when I was working in the schools, I was already like researching and shadowing and starting to take courses that I could find. And I discovered that feeding therapy was the missing link, right? That connected everything I loved: function, airway, oral motor, and impact. Although arguably it was lower airway, not upper airway, which came later. When I got into the bio world. But I opened up my own private practice focused on speech, feeding, temporal tissues, and we did do some early language stuff, other people on my team, not me. And that's really when things really took off. But I remember that like first, like full-on feeding case, right? Because my heart was racing. I was second-guessing everything that I was doing and I was like, who am I like to handle? A case like this, right? Spoiler alert, my confidence came after I took action, not before. And that is what I want for you, right? I want you to stop waiting until you feel ready and start building the identity of a feeding therapist one step at a time. Okay, so how do you actually become a pediatric feeding therapist? Like, that was a big question in my head. There was no guidance, no roadmap. It was like I piecemeal those together. I spent 10 Honestly, spent probably more than $10,000 and was still confused at the end of it because it took all these different courses. And so here's the roadmap that I wish someone had handed me 10 years ago. All right. Step 1, well, this is gonna be 4 steps. So let's just say the 4-step Faden Berbey roadmap. Okay. So step 1, foundations, right? And it's, it's, I've got the 4 Fs here. You're gonna see me, I've started to realize I have a lot of like systems in everything I do. And so you're gonna probably start hearing me talk a little bit more in systematized type of language, giving you steps and things like that, because in the past I just talk and my ADHD brain just, things just work like that. And then we've started to realize that I tend to say a lot of things, like a lot of the same things. And so we're putting some frameworks or roadmaps or systems to things. So anyways, this one is like the 4 Fs of the feeding therapy roadmap. Okay. Foundation, function, framework, and flow. So the foundation, number one, is understanding the systems. You have to learn how oral motor, sensory, posture, and airway systems connect, right? You start observing, like, what compensations do you see in the mouth, in the jaw, in the body, right? Then you gotta build your knowledge around why feeding breaks down, not just like how to treat it, but like, why is it even breaking down in the first place? If we don't know what typical is and we don't understand how we're deviating from typical, how do we know what to treat? Spoiler alert, we don't, right? So one, that's the foundation, like understanding the systems. Number two is function, right? We need to learn to assess, not guess. So feeding therapy, it's like being a detective, right? And we develop functional observation skills over time, especially with the right mentors, right? How does this child move? How do they eat, breathe, swallow? And then we can use frameworks. Like I mentioned, we're gonna have all different kinds of frameworks. I recently talked about my functional diagnosis model a couple of episodes ago. Maybe it was more than a couple episodes ago at this point, but anyways, and that helps us connect our symptoms to root causes, right? Because we don't wanna go chasing techniques. We need to learn how to reason clinically. And one of the things that I see is everybody comes out of every course and they're like, I want more exercises. And we, we give you exercises, we talk about them, but also you're not gonna use everything on every child. And you really don't need a hundred different exercises to use. You really just need a small arsenal, if you will, like a small toolbox of tools. And that includes some exercises and some techniques. But it's not like, what I find is that so many of you are technique chasers. You're like, I just need another exercise. I need another technique for when the other one doesn't work. Let's reason and think, like reason clinically and think critically. All right? Okay. Number 3 here is the framework, and that is practicing with support. Okay? The fastest way to grow is mentorship. We know that. So you need to get into supervision, group mentorships, programs like Feed the Peds. They give you structure and feedback and case review. And you're gonna learn more by doing with guidance than by endlessly watching webinars and online courses and all that fun stuff, which, hi, I sell these things, but they're done, they're courses that are paired with guidance and mentorship. And that is what you need in order for these courses that we are required to take for continuing ed, in order for them to be worth our time and to make sense and to be applicable to our patients, you need to be doing it with guidance, okay? Confidence, my friends, is going to compound when you have someone confirming you are on the right track. How do I know? We've had thousands of clinicians go through our programs and thousands of clinicians that could tell you this is exactly their experience. Because how do I know? Because they have. All right. Number 4 is flow. And this is where you start to build your confidence through repetition, right? And so, look, start with simpler cases if you can, reflect on what's working and what's not working. Repeat, learn, adjust. Over time, your brain is going to build pattern recognition that's going to make things click, and you're going to move from like, oh gosh, I hope I'm doing this right, to like, okay, I have an idea, a pretty solid idea of what this kid needs. Like, I know what this child needs, right? And people always say to me, Hallie, like, how is it you can literally just look at that kid and kind of know what's going on? Because the moment I see the kids start moving breathing. Like, I am taking in all this information holistically across the whole body of this child, and I'm able to go, oh, all right, I want to look in the mouth. I also want to see how they sit. I wonder if their mouth is open when they're sleeping. I start asking questions in my head. Why? Because I've done this over and over again. Repetition, right? My confidence was built through repetition. Okay, so this roadmap is not theory, my friends. It is exactly how Thousands of clinicians inside Feed the Peeds and our other programs have built their confidence and they have launched into becoming pediatric feeding therapists, whether they are launching feeding practices themselves, whether they're working for somebody else. That's not what I'm talking about here. And yes, some have been able to launch very successful private practices. The point is, this is how they're launching into being the specialist they desire to be and truly helping the children make progress. Okay. So now what I want to focus on is the elephant in the room, because this comes up a lot whenever I'm doing my 3-day pediatric feeding training, my 3-day free training, which we have one coming up. So it's later this month. So the point that I want to make here that I want to share with you is that we need to look at everybody around us, every single therapist that you look up to, colleagues, educators in the pediatric feeding space, started out feeling completely unqualified. Imposter syndrome does not mean you're not ready. It actually means you're growing, you're stretching. Like, it's that uncomfy feeling of doing something new, right? Your brain is trying to keep you safe by keeping you in what's familiar. And so the antidote here isn't like more studying, it's getting those clinical reps in, right? But with support, with mentorship, right? And you're gonna build belief through evidence. One successful session, one client win, one affirmation from a mentor, right? At a time. And confidence is cumulative, my friends. So if you're waiting for confidence to come before you start, you are going to be waiting forever. And most of you're probably sitting here going, oh yeah, I've been saying I was gonna start with past 5 years or 2 years or past 3 months or 10 years or whatever. I've taken all these courses and I'm still not working with feeding cases, but I want to. Confidence comes from starting. All right. So how do you actually build confidence step by step? One, learn it once deeply. Like, don't scatter across 10 courses. Pick one comprehensive program and commit to it. Okay. Number two. Apply it immediately. Use what you learn on real cases right away. Number 3, reflect. After each session, I want you to ask like, what works? What didn't? What will I do differently next time? And number 4, get feedback. Ask a mentor or community, you know, that you're in to review your plan or video. Obviously, keep it HIPAA compliant. Number 5, repeat. Each time you do this, you're going to build You're gonna build intuition. It's gonna become easier, right? That, my friends, is how you go from anxious to aligned and from doubting yourself to diagnosing and assessing, assessing, diagnosing, and treating with confidence. Okay? So as we step into this new year, which has already begun, I want to challenge you in 2026 to claim your next identity. Not someday, not when you feel ready. But now, today, in this moment, because the only difference between the feeding therapist you are today and the confident one you want to be is reps, mentorship, and belief, my friends. Okay? So if 2026 is your year to finally specialize in pediatric feeding, I want you to get on the Feed the Peets waitlist right now at feedthepeets.com. Enrollment is gonna open soon, but first we're gonna do our free 3-day training at the end of this month. You'll be the first to know about all the things, right? If you're on the feedthepeds.com waitlist, this is a new year, new specialty, or maybe you're just going to specialize finally in the thing that you wanna specialize in that you've been dabbling in, right? Your roadmap is waiting, my friends. So come and join me. I promise you it is so rewarding and we need so many more pediatric feeding therapists. So welcome back to the podcast. Hi, Hallie.

Thanks for having me. Definitely. We're in such a different place than I was just a little over 2 years ago, both personally and professionally. So last time I was on, I had just had a baby, just a quick recap. She was about 6 months and, and I kind of told my story on that first podcast of, you know, what brought me to stepping out, going into private practice, making it, you know, centered around feeding therapy and going through your Feed the Peeds. And using that as my launching pad to like build my confidence to step out into what was a new area for me for practice. I'd spent many years in the school system and I was just ready for a complete change, especially after having children. And so that first podcast kind of goes really deep into why I started my, my practice. And then we launch here and we are now 2+ years into full-fledged Nurture. I would say the biggest change for us is I did take on a business partner. So our practice is now shared ownership between myself and a longtime colleague turned friend, dear friend now, of course. And, um, our, our practice has expanded. We are in 2 locations. We went from the 2 of us this time last year to now having 12 of us. So the growth was just exponential and mostly because we are offering services that are just rare in our area, hard to find, and really like our network of speech pathologists almost like unwilling to touch or just not having the confidence of feeding knowledge and feeding therapy and feeling like that they can successfully, you know, accept clients with those kinds of needs.

Like, I'm just curious, like, were you already super confident in treating pediatric feeding cases? You know, I know a lot of people tell me, oh, I was referring a clinic kids out because I didn't know if I could help them. What did that look like for you?

Sure. I mean, most of our graduate programs don't have strong teachings in anything at all.

I got nothing in grad school of PT. Nothing.

I think the course, you go into it and you're like, okay, I need to finish this before I can see anybody and get started. Like, just start. Like, you do truly have to start somewhere. And I think a lot of us speech pathologist types they're like, oh no, I need to have all my ducks in a row and I can only start when this happens. And that's just not true. And especially in my area, when there was literally no one else providing the service, I started having that mental narrative of, Kelly, you're still doing better than anyone else. Because something and trying is better than nothing through the diagnostic process. And then the more people you see, the easier that diagnostic process becomes. Right? Because then you just start to constant session is a constant reeval. What needs to change? How can we tweak this? I mean, I took the course, I've been doing this for a couple years now, and I think of a client I want that I want to work through with this family, and I thrive on that kind of complexity to get him where he should be and to get off that G-tube.

The fact that you can serve these families and that they don't have to go to medical center, right? That's how— talk to us about what your caseload looks like now.

I mean, my time personally is limited, right? I have a small family. I have a 5-year-old, a 2-and-a-half-year-old, and a 6-month-old. And so personally, I am kind of called in for complex cases. We have built our clinic with fabulous speech pathologists. My business partner, Praxia of Speech, we have also hired an additional myofunctional therapist who has an RGH background. Kids that have a little bit of everything, the complex feeding issue that parents don't know their kids have because they're here for my— so I step in to hybrid and address all three within a session, right? Because, you know, most of the time, like, we still are a cash pay clinic, we're accepting a lot of insurances still, but I come in for those kids that have a little bit of everything that, you know, really the root of it is probably like a tethered oral tissue.

That's affected all of it, right?

It's fine. And, you know, and everybody knows a little bit about a lot, but unless you really focused in on tethered oral tissues and what it does to your body and how do you evaluate it for function and when it's impacting it and then how to treat it from there, it just keeps spinning your wheels. My wants are what I've really learned is a lot of the other practicing myofunctional therapists, it's a really big one-size-fits-all. Fits all.

It was kids were going through these programs and then coming to my practice because they really hadn't made any progress. And we were like, these parents have spent all this time and money. A lot of them were like, I was hesitant because of the investment. And every single person so happy they did it and said it was so worth it. And then I'm just like, because you all are living out your best lives as the specialist that you desire to be and truly stepping into your desired specialty, we know in turn that's actually directly impacting who you hire into your practice, who you treat in your practice, the families you work with, the professionals you choose to network with and refer to. It's like everything has such a trickle-down effect. And so now I'm just like, well, how do we even go bigger?

Pretty much if you take the course, you're gonna see that there's a need to be filled. And when you start to fill that need, you're gonna see there's a bigger picture. And once you start to step into that bigger picture, guess what? There's an even bigger picture. You're so motivated. To keep going, right? To keep touching those higher tiers of professionals. And ultimately all of this is for the same mission.

To get kids off waitlists. I'll get into it because we want to help people, right?

Now we have graduate students seeking us out knowing that we have these skills. And that's something I never even thought of or considered. It was like, wow, someone's seeking me out to learn because they know I've done these things.

So that's— yeah, it's amazing. And ripple. I keep hearing more and more of that. Somebody actually told me, one of our CPFTs last night said, I decided to— they're like, because I have so much time, because this person owns a private practice too and has always worked with the babies and started working with toddlers because of taking CPFT. And she's like, I never thought it would work for anybody but babies. She's like, but I went and interviewed with the NICU because I don't know, I kind of want to get into the NICU at least a couple of days a week or something. And she's like, and the PT that hired me had heard about, or not hired, but who interviewed her, she had heard about Feed the Peeds. And I was like, oh good, we've infiltrated the system. Now how do we get this? Let's move the needle faster. But it was cool because we keep hearing that where people are telling me, you know, it was like CPFT more so than anything else. But they're like, you know, I just have people referring to me now because they decided like I'm an expert or I've now be like the hospital, you know, physiatrist is coming to me and asking for my advice on things and taking my advice like point blank as a speech pathologist because I'm getting the certification. And I'm like, I think there's a lot of education that we can be doing, whether you've taken Feed the Peeds, the Mayo Method, or you get one of the certifications, you're a, you know, you're a CMT, right? So you get the certification in Mayo, or you will get the certification in feeding, pediatric feeding. The way that we position ourselves and the way that we start to talk about like our cases and collaborate with others, like they will start to see you through the lens of being that specialist and then they will respect you in a really different way than, you know, before. And like, you don't have to be certified for that to happen, but you do have to be educated and you do need to like feel really confident in the work you're doing, still fully knowing that nobody knows everything. There's so much more to learn and we are always all stumped by cases, like all the time. Like I'm not, Don't, don't mince my words here, right? So yeah, so anyway, this is why I created Feed the Peets in the first place. And it's so wild because 5 years ago I would've had no clue that this is where I would've been headed right now. And like that this would've been our like 2026 goal. But it's exciting. It's exciting to like get on. I'm like, I'm having fun getting on the phone with rehab directors and clinic directors who are like trying to champion us up the chain, you know, to others to see if we can do this. Stay tuned. I will.

I'm excited.

Like, I'm gonna do that program when, like, Pretty new. Um, but yeah, it's exactly why I've created it. And I know it's the, the same reason, like when you're talking about creating education for parents and just wanting to get this information into their hands. Because I think one of the other things that came up too is that there's still such a disconnect in what parents hear from different providers, right? So it, whether it's, and I was talking to like a, a smaller rehab center yesterday and they said, you know, They said we're— they're Medicaid-based and they get— they said we're kind of a second-line therapy for a lot of people. Like, they're coming to us, they've already had services elsewhere and/or were supplemental, and/or they're coming to us because they're hoping for an answer. And so they'll, you know, sometimes parents might like withhold information because they want to see what we say without like muddying the waters. And like, you know, anyway, so it was really interesting because I was like, you know, there's just so many nuances to the work that we do. But I'm like, if we could all get on the same page and parents could feel really educated and empowered to have these conversations with professionals and realize like we are all on the same team, like, I don't think I'm smarter than you. You know your child better than me. And like I always try to tell parents, you know, I want to arm you with information so you feel really good about the conversation. But also, like, not every professional knows everything either. So don't feel like you have to, you know, enough. Have the convo about your child and just, you know, your child. So you don't need to know all the professional lingo or all the nuances. Like, we just need to know what's, what's going on. Like, how's this impacting your life? How's this impacting your child's life? Like, how can we help you? Why are you here? Right? Um, anyway, so I think it'll be really cool to see what you roll out.

Parent education. Yeah, I mean, that's the backbone of our practice is being able to empower you know, our parents with knowledge and support of being their child's best advocate because they already are and no one knows their child better and their gut's not wrong. So yeah, we're here to just cheer 'em on and give 'em some more of that lingo that may get them a little further even though it shouldn't. Um, but it seems to work that way sometimes.

Yeah. I mean, we also have to consider that when you're working in a medical system that's dictated by insurance companies and what gets push through or doesn't, that lingo can be helpful. And, you know, in my private practice, we'll provide like an insurance guide because we're out of network, but we'll be like, call your insurance. Here's the exact questions to ask. Here are the codes you can check on. We're not saying these are the codes yet. We're just saying check on them and find out what they're willing to give you information-wise. You at least have an idea of what may or may not be covered when you submit on your own, right? And so it's— Well, another podcast. A whole nother podcast. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So. To kind of wrap this up and tie it up with a pretty bow. I really love this because I feel like this has kind of come full circle. Like, you, you know, stepped into pediatric feeding, you took Feed the Peeds, you took Mayo, SMT, all the fun things. You're a clinic owner, you're a business partner, you're now creating, right? So you're now in a position where you can educate parents community. And I just think that's such a beautiful thing that's like being born out of all of this, because at the end of the day, like, we all want to help, right? Like, we all just want the best for our patients and their families. And, you know, I know as a mom of a child who is a picky, color picky, picky selective eater, you know, and it's gotten better at age 10, but it was, you know, it was kind of rough there for a while between age— I don't know, age— what was she like, 2? And 9, you know, having lived that and then having my kids, you know, with airway issues and going through expansion appliances and going through myofunctional therapy and literally living everything that I teach, right? Like, you start to, like, realize, like, what he all says, right? But this—

yeah, it's, you know, I think the whole idea of just taking your course was to just be this little solo practitioner that just had her little You know, Nurture Well business and it just exploded in a very short time. I actually like that.

Wow. And did you open officially? Like, do you remember like the month and year?

It was like the same month I filmed the first one with you. So I wanna say it was like October 2020.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah. And so that's, I was like taking the course. I had filmed with you and I was taking on feeding clients mid-course. So, uh, and then it just evolved into really like—

evolved. Like if you could, you have known 2 years ago that this is where you would be in December of 2025, like just 2 years after launching this practice and growing the way that you have. And now you're gonna go create stuff to educate the public. Like, yeah. Like how?

Yeah, here we are. It's, you know, personally, you just, I'm just here for the ride, right? Like I'm just taking one step at a time and, you know, doing, yeah, just like the best that I can do and what that looks like realistically while still being a mom and just, it's, it's good stuff. It's all, all good.

So good. I love this. I love this. All right. So any last things that you want to share before we wrap up?

No, I mean, it's— I think we covered a lot of it today of just like when you step through that door, if you have that tug of like you're considering, you know, going into the feeding world, absolute yes. It will forever change you if you let it. And it really just doesn't— there are no limits, um, to the way you can impact someone's life. And I've always gone about like speech pathology in general, that if I can impact one person's life for the better, then I'm doing my job, even if it's just one, right? And, and we know just for the sake of feeding therapy in general and just the lack of resources in many communities around it, like, you're already doing better. Like, step through that, you know, step into that, step through it. Do it.

I love that advice. I get chills when I hear like these conversations. I'm just— it's, it's so true. And I think a lot of us get so overwhelmed at the thought of it and it feels a little scary, especially if you don't have any med SLP background, a speech pathologist, like where you went to grad school and like I had dysphagia training but for adults only. Okay. Both undergrad and grad. I had absolutely zero pediatric feeding. Like we didn't even talk about like typical development or what happens in Euro, like zero. Yeah, zero. And I was even told like, and I loved my program, I did, and I loved my supervisors, but I was told like, roll motor is a dirty word. We don't believe in that here. Like, it was so far gone from— I like left not knowing how to do articulation therapy because I was like, well, I know, I don't get it. Like, how do I work on these sounds? Like, I left grad school, no joke, not knowing how to do artic and having to like teach myself that. So if that tells you anything, Anyways, fast forward, you know, I just think that like it feels, it can feel so scary and overwhelming to just even start with that first patient, especially when you're like looking at like the whole world of people who need you in front of you and you're like, oh my gosh, like, no, not like shut down. Can't do any of this. And so I love your advice of just one person. If you can impact and help just one person today, like Amazing. That's one more person than if you hadn't gotten started. And I think it's just getting started. Like you were talking about, if you can just go after it, start it. Once you do, like you've already, you've literally done the hardest part of it.

Yep.

Because that's the big difference between those who succeed and those who don't in whatever you wanna specialize in is like the person who actually got started and chose to keep going. There are a thousand steps ahead of you because they got started. Like that's literally what it takes, right? So I love that advice because it's really simple and it can make such a really overwhelming, scary thing feel a lot less overwhelming and scary. So that's just a beautiful suggestion. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

Well, I'm really glad that you joined us back on the podcast, and I'm so excited to have like this whole amazing huge update, like in all aspects of life for you, life and business. Um, so thank you for joining us today, Kelly, and sharing all of that with us, and I can't wait to see how everything continues to expand and grow in your life.

Yes, Hallie, thank you so much. I always appreciate talking with you. And, um, yeah, bring on 2026. Fun things.

Here we go. Melanie, welcome back to the podcast.

No, thank you so much. It's great to be here.

I'm always excited to chat with you. You are literally— you're one of our mentors in the Pediatric Feeding Hub, which I know we'll talk about. You have taken Feed the Peas. You are now one of our latest CPFT-certified pediatric feeding therapists Congratulations, Alicia. Thank you. Yeah, and so, you know, now that you've kind of gone through the entire trajectory of everything we offer from beginner to advanced certification, I just, I know we're going to dive into that today. I would love for you to start and share with everybody, like, where were you in your career before you jumped into the advanced certification, into CPFT?

Before, before CPFT, I had done, well, 45 years into speech pathology itself, done everything, private practice, school system, system, clinics, child development, all of that. And I had then been working in a hospital for 20 years now, an outpatient. So kind of at that point, and I took Feed the Peeds in 2021, did that, loved it, kept going and going, did the Mayo Method in between that and in Mayo membership, you know, all the things, but just kept feeling like I need more than this. I need some more. I need some more. And loved the Feed the Peas and Mayo Method with all the mentorship, that was really, really key to me, having live people to talk to about what to do. Because most courses you take and things that you do for certification, you don't really get that. You go to a course for a couple of days or you do some online things, but there's no feedback. And what do I do tomorrow in my session? So that's kind of where I was. And I was actually, gosh, when was it? March, I guess I talked to you of 2025 because I was on the fence of do I go ahead and do the CMT or do the CPFT? So for me, that was a thing. And we talked and you said, what are you seeing most? And it was feeding. So probably at least half my caseload is feeding therapy. So that was kind of a trajectory. And then as I went along, a lot of my autistic kids and kids with sensory needs came in for speech and language. And what do you know? Most of them needed feeding therapy too. You see that kind of thing. So I, that's where I was when I started CPFT and I thought, I wanna learn more, but I also love mentoring, have a lot of CF students, all those kinds of things. I wanted to do that more. So I got offered the Feeding Hub, which was great to kind of start that. And so it was all right at the same time, CPFT and Feeding Hub. Well, I will say I didn't know exactly what I was jumping into, but it was definitely worth it. One of our cohort members said it's like graduate school on speed. I would say no, no, no, more like doctoral program on speed. So that's how it was, but it was, you know, what I really needed to kind of create what I want to do going forward in my career.

I love that. I love that. So I guess my question for you now that we've kind of explained all the different things. Going back to CPFT, like, do you feel like it's made a difference for you? And like, if you ask, like, what is, like, what are those differences that you're seeing, whether it's in your practice or, you know, collaborations or what?

In everything, in every aspect of life.

So cool.

I mean, everything, everything. So first of all, like what you were saying, I do feel like it's very intense. But so you just become like on this wheel of, I can't wait to open this next thing up. I can't wait for the next hour and a half I spent on Monday night or Tuesday night with the group or the small group. And, you know, that's crazy, right? But it's so, yeah, after a full day work, but you're like, oh, where is it? And when it was over, we're all going, oh man, you know, what are we going to do?

And after that, it's so funny, Melanie, sorry to interrupt you. It's so funny. Because it's like in a lot of our other programs, people are kind of, I think, like Zoom fatigue. Like they don't always want to show up at night for things. They'd rather watch the recording, which is fine. But we found that with the CPFT, it's like 99% of all of the live calls are attended in person and you guys like eat them up. And we're like, oh my gosh, this is it. This is intense. But like, also you guys are like, love it. You're loving it. And this has now been for both cohorts the past 2 years. It's happening with both groups. So I'm, we're just like, okay, we're onto something here.

Yeah. It's like a, just a, a hidden gem, I guess, because you get that passion for it because you're taking the courses and they are just igniting all this stuff in your head. But then we have the calls and it's not just, hey, how you doing? You know, it's more like every one of the large group calls was some kind of training. Hmm. But also talking with each other and collaborating with the cohort members as well as the 3 mentors who are bar none. Let me just say that. Of course, I'm partial to mine, Nadine, who was just perfect for me.

And I don't know how y'all choose that stuff, but that's why we do that call. It was just like, yeah, I do a 30-minute call, right? And we talked about all of your goals and like what, like, okay, if you go into this and that's before you even committed, because I want to make sure that like before you all make this investment in time and money or whatever, like one, this is the right path for 2, we can actually help you accomplish whatever those goals are that you're setting out to accomplish. And 3, like with this cohort, do we have people that we can match you up with and the right mentor for your goals? And so I do those calls very with that in mind so that I can match you. And then I sit there and I move, I take all these notes while we're talking so that I can like move you all around and be like, okay, this person really wants to go into the NICU. And so does this person. And we have our OT Beth who is in the NICU. Okay. This is going to be— they're going to go over here. I've got some people who want to be in private practice, and— or maybe they're not private practice, but they're working with similar patients that we see in our private practice. And Nadine's my lead clinician, so like, I know her skill set. I know, like, okay, this makes sense to put you here. Okay, now there's Sasha. I was like, well, Sasha is doing, you know— so it's like, I know. And it's interesting too, because there's always patterns that come through. And on this last cohort, I think I spoke to like 5 people, and I think 3 of the 5 ended up joining who wanted to like build out a pediatric feeding program, not necessarily their own, but like within the confines of where they were working. And I was like, oh, well, I'm going to pair those people together because it makes sense that either like that already exists in somebody who is in this group, or they all want to create similar things and they're seeing similar patients, and this therapist is going to be really good for helping them with that. And so yeah, I'm, I'm sitting here like a puzzle piece-mealing together the groups because that's part of the experience that y'all are paying for. It's like, and, and investing your time in, like, I want you to be with people on a similar journey. Now, obviously we all have things that are gonna be a little different, but like, my goal for you is to also then have those people to link arms with after certification so that you all can continue to communicate with each other and create your own little groups outside of CERT so that you can continue to support each other going forward too. So it's like a lifetime. You know, linking up of you all beyond even the certification. So you continue to have that support outside of the mentors because you guys are all mentor level now. Like all of you have come out and if you weren't already mentoring, like you were, but if you weren't already mentoring, a lot of people are able to step into a mentorship position after certification, which is just wild.

Well, there's this value spread that you spread it that way and you can reach out the tentacles and everything. First of all, I mean, this thing humbled me like big time.

Oh my gosh.

Imposter syndrome. Yeah. What in the world? Because there were so many women. I mean, it's all women right now anyway, but you know, there you go. But it was like all these OTs and SLPs are just amazing, you know? So that kind of got me, but it challenged me and made me grow instead of— I hate Being my age, being in this forever, just sitting. I can't sit. I'm like, see you, junkie. But this is a next level because of that mentorship and because of the groups, the large and the small. And my small group, of course, was the best to me, of course. But we actually had 5 of us in the group. I think the others were smaller, but we gelled. In fact, when you say that, we were planning like weeks before, how are we all going to get together? How are we going to be collaborating? We're doing that. You know, it's, it's happening. I love it.

Everyone's like, but like, how can we all stay together? And like, you can, it's not going to be through us directly, but like, we want you to do that. So like, you all can go create your own, like, little, you know, Telegram channel or whatever and stay connected.

It's, and that was so, it was so great because that helped me, you know, I've not only made professional connections and collaboration, but good friends, good, real human, the human relationships have been like fantastic. And just seeing those little differences, but likenesses, you know, one of my group members is in Georgia and works in a hospital.

Wow.

Now I know you puzzle piece that together, but that, you know, now we've made connections because we're close enough. That she needs to come to Macon, or I need, you know, go down where she is, you know, we can refer back and forth, which is like fabulous. And then, you know, we have one of our cohort members is in a feeding school. That's all they do, which is totally unusual, I think, in the country, right? But just looking at her, she came up, they come up with these feeding plans that they give out. I'm like, How smart is that? It was just so many things with that that was able to propel me into better, I guess, collaboration. And then my OTs and SLPs in my practice or the hospital, whatever, they are all now coming and wanting to learn more.

Papa.

From me as well. Not just me, but the program and what I've learned. We also were having a symposium in March. That is on development. It's mostly gonna be to providers, we think, but I'm gonna do the feeding part along with help from everybody else. But they're not just looking at, you know, basically, oh, they can't swallow, whatever. It's, we're gonna use the Feed the Pig screener, you know, because it also has not just feeding, of course, it has what's gonna be happening, gross motor, fine motor, utensil use, all of that. All the way across, which is fantastic because that gets all together and knowing, well, they don't have these gross motor skills, they're probably not going to have those feeding skills or vice versa. And so that's kind of been a great thing. So hopefully we can inform and help get better referrals. And I'm of the mindset, I'd rather someone be referred to me and me say, you don't need therapy right now, but here's what you can do at home. And come back and call than someone to slip through the cracks and be 5 coming in with a long face and a big tongue tie.

100%. I love that. So it creates some other opportunities then, because you're now getting to also, like, speak at the symposium and share your knowledge. And, you know, and I think, like, one of the big goals— and you and I were chatting before we hit record— but one of my big goals is, like, get kids off pediatric feeding therapy waitlists. That's why I started Feed the Peeds. And now I'm like, okay, we've trained thousands of SLPs and OTs, but could we do this exponentially faster and at least get the kids to the right place? Like exactly what you're saying, by teaching providers who are like related providers in hospital settings and in clinics and stuff, like the nursing team and the dietitians and anybody who might be working with a child who possibly needs to be referred for pediatric feeding assessment. And like teach them what to look for. And so we can all kind of collaborate better, speak the same language, make sure, like you said, kids are not slipping through the cracks and like, and it's better that they're eval than not.

You know, oral motor problem, you know, tethered oral tissue problem, whatever, all those kinds of different things. And especially looking at autistic kids and neurodivergent kids tend to have a lot of gut problems. They tend to have a lot of motor issues, period, with throughout their body. So that was a really big thing to look at and not just let these kids, oh, well, they're picky because they're autistic.

Bye.

You know, so yeah, big, big thing. A big, big thing is taking care of yourself. Yeah. And making sure that you have all your things in a row and then you can relate to these kids. And it's like, then you look at the adults in the room and it's like, Oh, and they're like, snoring's not normal. And I'm like, no. And that's another big thing. Sleep is so important when you do a feeding eval. You gotta ask about it. And I think that doesn't happen. No.

And parents are always surprised. Like, why do you care about their sleep? Like, what does that have to do with anything? They snore like a freight train, but you know, let me tell you, like, you know, their behaviors during the day, what's their sleep like? And you know, yeah. It's interesting. It's very interesting. It was—

I saw them, they just snore with their mouth open all night.

Yeah. You're like, that tells me a whole lot of information. Thank you for that. Very helpful.

Yep.

And we can do something about that.

Perfect.

So I just, I think there's so many like levels that we miss just, and I think it's so great. Oh, also in CPFT, y'all did add, I know at least one course. Are you still adding courses?

Right.

We do. Yeah. So, so basically the way that we came up with the initial curriculum was based on courses that had been asked for like a deeper dive into certain topics for the first, like, I don't know, 3, 4 years of doing Feed the Peas. And so then we sent out to all of our graduates, cuz we had a couple thousand graduates, we were like, let's basically ask them at that time, a couple years ago, what courses do you think are important? Rank these, right? And then we were like, okay, now rank them in order of importance. And so that really helped us decide what to create first as we rolled everything out during our first cohort. And now since We're now, we just finished up the second cohort and we only do one per year because they're 8 months long. We basically were like, yeah, you're like, oh, I know. We were like, okay, what's missing? Like, do you feel like there are other topics that you want to dive further into? Because, you know, we want to provide that, that content. And if we can, the way that we're creating content is not just to give another CEU, it's to create it in a functional way that really brings home and connects all the dots, right? For. Pediatric feeding is almost like what we're talking about, what we're doing here, and how we're implementing it in our day-to-day. And so that's how we kind of seek out course creators, you know. We talk with them about like, you know, like, what do you foresee going into this course? And like, we're not trying to micromanage anything, but like, they're the topic expert. That's why they're selected or invited to create the course, or, you know, chosen. But we're like, we would just want to make sure this material is functional and anybody— anyone coming in and creating stuff for us really understands like that that's important, right? So that's been really, really cool. Yeah, we're still, we'll still keep creating intermediate to advanced courses, not at the same speed that we did in the past couple years.

Yeah, yeah.

We gotta get all these courses in there. And people are not forced to take the courses that are, that are in there, but we do require, you know, the 82 hours of coursework for certification as part of it. And so if people have outside intermediate to advanced courses that cover certain topics, they're more than welcome to use. Other courses maybe they've already taken in the past couple years, but so far everybody has gone through our courses.

Take every one of those. Let me just say, because you've got, I mean, those deep dives, but then you look at Cheryl's courses. Oh my word. I'd already gotten assigned by her because I heard her on the podcast and I'm like, she is so cool, but she just has the ideas out the wamizuka is all I can say. And yeah, she just like flavors and she's like, you know, let's get this into their repertoire. Here's how you do this and all the kitchen things, you know, all the food mills and things. And I'm like, that is such a good idea.

Yeah. She's just brilliant.

So those, that's a whole nother piece of it. Whereas you get the motor skill, but what can you eat while you're getting that motor skill and how can you break down the food? And one of my favorite terms that she had was dry puree. I'd never heard that before.

Yeah.

And that's like the crumbing, not even crumbing, almost just totally, I don't know what you would even call it, but like making a powder.

Yeah.

Graham crackers or Ritz, whatever they love, but then you can start to transition to other things. So, and get it.

Yeah. She's so amazing. Yeah. So, I mean, it was so funny the first time she and I recorded a podcast and we were trying, we were actually, she sent me the Sidebiters and I was like, let's record a podcast and talk about using them. And as we were talking about, I was like, Cheryl, I was like, we could be using this in myofunctional therapy. Yes. Kids who have like limited repertoires food-wise. Now obviously this is going to be more pediatric feeding than myo at this point, but this is a lot of us SLPs and OTs are getting these kids, right, who need both. And so we could use this for introduction. Yeah. And like even just introduce skills with this depending on the kid's age. And that's when she was then creating the kiddie version of it too. And I was like, oh, this is so exciting. And so, I mean, she's just incredible, but she just was spouting off ideas left and right. I was like, well, this is making me think maybe I could do this and we could try that. And she was like, or yeah, what about this and this and this and this? And I was like, oh my gosh, you need to come be in our, like, world because you're like a fountain of constant therapy ideas. And this is what everybody wants. They want access to, like, a brain that just constantly has all these ideas of things.

It may not even— it's one little kind of niche little part of it, but it's so huge overall. When you put all that together, it was great. And you can even use the Side Biter without the poles.

Yeah.

Just by itself.

Work on skills.

Because it's still gonna get that, you know, jaw alignment, not have a jaw slant, you know, all of the things, the myos slash whatever. There's so many things for that that are just fantastic. And I can't say enough.

So, okay. So who should take CPFT versus like, let's say someone who should wait, or like, is there someone that you feel like would be ideal to enter into the CPFT as a SLP or OT, or even a PT in feeding?

I would say, I still think you need to take Be The Peeds. That's just me. And I've taken everything, NDT courses, you know, Beckman back in the day, NOMOS back in the 1900s, you know, whatever, way back in the day, you know, all the different things. People is in the 99, but you know, all of those things that I couldn't— SOS, everything, all the things you hear, but it never— I couldn't pull all that together. Feed the Peets helped, was great, but I wanted to go further. So someone who is kind of at that point of, hey, I really want to specialize down, and even like, I'm not in the NICU, but the course anymore, did that too. But back in the NICU course, it also talks about who's coming out and what to do then. And many more people will probably be on the outpatient side of that.

I love that you said that because we have people ask us, well, should I— because you don't have to take every course to hit your 82 hours because we have extra courses in there now. But, and people have said, well, should I take the NICU? And we're like, everyone should take the NICU because these kids, a lot of them, right, may have Some of your patients will have come from NICU, so you need to understand what happened in the NICU. And two, they transition home. And that was an important part of that conversation. There's not a lot of support between NICU and home. And so understanding how to support those kids who have just come out of the NICU. And hey, if anybody wants to create some programs in their hospitals or in their outpatient setting or wherever you work to help bridge that gap between NICU and home, like there needs, that needs to exist. Or at least therapists who know how to work with these kids. And it's well known who these therapists are in your area, right? These, these children and their families are, they're on their own really, unfortunately, a lot of the time. Anyway, so a little plug for that.

And it's so true because even in our hospital, lactation stops in NICU. You have to find someone outside of that person. So that's horrible when you're a mom who's going home, not having the support. Of the NICU anymore and you're like, what do I do with this kid?

Right. Yeah.

So that was community resources when you're in there, especially those who have just been pumping in the NICU and are going home and actually going to breastfeed. And, you know, it's a hard— it's tough a lot of times. So that was something too. I think anyone that just wants to really know more, it will humble you. I'm prom— I mean, I'm like, how does all this exist? But also know You can take those pieces and put those with your patient because every one of your patients that walk in the door or people or clients, whatever you're calling them these days, when they walk in that door, they're going to be different in some respects, but also the working with the family. It's one unit. It's not just the kid.

Yeah.

It's never just the kid. And I think that's, and you have to, that was another thing that was really brought home in the course, in the program. I'm going to keep saying that wrong.

Okay. You know, you mean program.

You know what I mean. Within that program was that you have to meet the family where they are. You can't be giving them these elaborate home programs and all these exercises to do and things to do when they just can't even get up and make it through the day half the time. You need to do it really slowly. And where they are. And, and I even had one of my case presentations, they were reluctant to do more testing on their NICU baby. And I had to kind of, I wanted a modified done, but I waited to kind of keep pushing that because they just weren't ready. And sometimes you have to do that and that's, you know, a case for that. But also by doing the Feeding Hub office hours and mentoring in there, I've also seen that a lot of those therapists who are kind of in between that Feed the Peeds kind of level or ready, they're ready. And I, you know, I always suggest take those courses, you know, take a couple of those one-offs and see what you think, as it will make you want to dive in. You do have to take that, you know, in your head. Okay, I've got to have this time. This is what I'm going to do. And it may be more difficult. I don't have kids at home, young kids where, you know, babies and and toddlers and all of that. So it could be harder, but I'll tell you, we had cohort members whose ears were running around the top of their head, you know, it's all dark.

You know, so far it's been all— I don't think the men would mind anyways. Those men, you know, those SLPs who come and do feeding, we've had a couple of men go through Feeding Feeds. But yeah, I mean, we're very, we're very friendly. We also understand it's like real life. And listen, like I'm a mom in business where my child, and I haven't really shared this, like it so much yet because this is newer, but like she's gonna be coming with me to some of my business mastermind events because she's part of this Courage Club thing that she joined. And the woman who runs it, her daughter started the Courage Club, she's 11, my daughter is 10 going, you know, 10 and a half. And it's introducing them to leadership and they're gonna have their own little program, right? And so like I am all for having our kids present. Like, you know, if you need to mute for a minute because it's noisy and you're getting your kids settled, That's fine. Like, you know, I, I feel like people are like, oh, it's so unprofessional, or, oh, I can't do this, or, oh, I can't do that. No, we want you to take the program and fit it into your life in the way that you need to make it work in order to achieve your goals. Because society tells you a whole bunch of stories and a whole bunch of how things should be done, and that's just not how I subscribe to life. Like, I have built my businesses with my babies on my hips, and they are now 7 and 10. So, you know, I'm like, I'm all for it. And there's a lot of females and moms and women who got into these professions because because they wanted to raise children. So I'm like, okay, if you have your baby waving on the camera, like, that doesn't bother anybody. But anywho, thank you so much. Thank you for all of this. And, you know, we really look at it as like Feed the Peeds gives you the foundations, PFT, that program that gives you mastery. And that's like, this is, you know, what we talked about is really like why that matters for your career. And it's been really cool to see what a lot of you are doing with, you know, this advanced certification. We are opening doors to CPFT. We invite everybody to apply. And when you apply and you decide like that you do want to like figure out if this is for you, that's when you get to get on the phone with me and talk through it and figure out like, is this right next step for you? So thank you so much for your time, Melanie.

Thank you for everything. You've changed my life.

Well, you're the best. One of these days we all have to get together and like be in the same physical room together. We'll have to be great.

Yes.

Vent or something, you know, that would be Absolutely. Take it, take it off the Zooms and off the internet and bring it in real life into the real. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you, Melanie. This has been a welcome quick disclaimer.

All information, content, and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and serves as informational purposes only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis, and/or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. That wraps up today's special compilation. My goal with these episodes is to bring together the conversations and the insights that are truly moving the needle in our field right now. Next, whether you're a parent looking for answers or a clinician looking to sharpen your skills, remember that the most important tool you have is your own clinical reasoning. Don't just look at the surface level symptoms, look at the underlying systems. If today's episode shifted your perspective or gave you a new aha moment, I would love to hear about it. Take a screenshot of you listening, post it to your stories and tag me @HallieBulkin. You can always find more resources and past episodes over at untetheredpodcast.com. Thanks for tuning in, and I'll see you back here next week on The Untethered Podcast.