Episode 105: The Feeding Mom with Mallory Millet, MS, CCC-SLP, CIMI-II

Hi and welcome to episode 105 of the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Mallory Millett joining us. Mallory is a speech language pathologist who lives in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. She works at an outpatient clinic serving kids in her community from birth to 16 years of age with varying diagnoses and treatment needs. However, she has specialized in pediatric dysphagia, specifically with babies from birth to one year of age for the past six years. She has three children who are ages four and under. They were the reason behind the creation of her private practice, the Feeding Moment, where she helps support and empower parents in their feeding journeys. By providing one to one support, she reaches out within communities across the world through her Instagram platform. Infant Feeding Specialist. Her goal is to have all parents feel comfortable getting in their baby's mouth and love their feeding journey with their baby. Quick Disclaimer all information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Hallie Balkan. I'm a certified orofacial myologist, feeding specialist and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, tethered oral tissue and airway space. I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to get this information out to the masses. Let's get started. Well Mallory, I'm super excited to have you joining us today. I know that we initially had connected on the gram. I feel like Instagram has been a really fun way to connect therapists who probably never would have connected, you know, mamas, therapists, business owners and so yeah. So welcome to the show. I'm really excited to have you here.

Yeah, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. I know, I feel the same way. Instagram is just so powerful and kind of exciting. So I'm excited to be here too.

Yeah. So let's chat because you know, part of my whole elevation movement is elevating other business owners and mamas, especially, you know, the female business owners in the therapy space space especially. So you've created the Feeding mom and I really want you to share with us, you know, what is the Feeding Mom? What's the purpose behind it? You know, tell us all about that.

Ok, so I guess it's kind of a longish story. Take your Time I was, I been a speech therapist for 10 years. Started in a nursing home, and then, you know, life kind of took me in a different direction. And I ended up in an outpatient pediatric clinic. And they were not treating pediatric dysphagia. The speech therapist, they didn't treat that diagnosis. So I kind of started up a clinic there, built a team with the ot and we started working on feeding. And it was there that I saw like a lot of kids I was seeing, probably mostly 2 and 3 year old. They was the age where you started seeing behaviors or quote, unquote, sensory feeding. And you take, if you take your good history, you start to realize that, okay, well, as an infant we have feeding problems. Right? So don't look at what's going on right now. Let's find out why they had the feeding problems in the beginning. And so we as a team really directed our kind of mission in our community to start getting referrals early. If we're having feeding issues, they're just going to build on top of one another. So let's intervene early. And then I had my own kids. You know, that always changes everything, right? Oh, my gosh. And, you know, I was going to breastfeed, that whole thing. I had a breast reduction when I was 19. You know, they say, no, you'll be able to breastfeed, no problems. And at 19, you're thinking, okay, you know, whatever.

Right, right.

And then at 30, I'm trying to breastfeed, you know, crying and like, what's wrong? And. And so I switched the bottles and no information on bottle feeding. How do you bottle feed? Which bottle do you choose? Which formula do you pick? I mean, how are you even supposed to hold it? You know, like. And those kinds of things are not intuitive. You don't, you don't, you're not born knowing, oh, I know how to do all these things. Being a mom. No.

Right, right.

So I kind of had to. You know, I always joke that my first was my guinea pig. And like, I messed up so bad with him. Like, I picked the wrong bottle and I positioned him wrong and I did all the wrong things. And he ended up. I mean, he's almost five now, and he has a lot of oral issues, he's behavioral, so we struggle with that. He's a mouth breather and we're really trying to work through all of those things. But the bottle feeding aspect of his journey is where I began to realize we need to fill in this gap for moms. If you choose to bottle feed or you End up having to bottle feed. You should have the information you need to be successful. And so that piece kind of started developing, right? And then he started to have all these oral issues. And I was like, oh my gosh, how could I prevented it from happening? What was I doing that created such a horrible mouth?

So, you know, you are like, and.

You are so hard on yourself as a mom and everything is your fault. And so when my second came, I really looked at how his mouth was developing with what I was doing. So my bottle choice, what is it doing to his mouth? My position changing to sideline for long term is really important to get that jaw to come out the way it needs to come. Right. Being on their back and feeding, that's just so much pressure on their oral system. So that's when I created the activities for moms to do. These are easy things to get the tongue moving, to be aware of their oral space. Because a lot of times we end up with, you know, they're congested one day and that mouth comes open, the tongue starts hanging lower and then it just progresses. Right. I mean, it's just that easy. It doesn't take. Yes.

Yeah.

So then the oral play guide came to be and. And it's really just about encouraging moms to get in their mouth and be comfortable in there. As a bottle feeding mom, they don't have, they're not on your breast. No matter how much you can implement kind of bonding things around bottle feeding, they don't have that connection. Right. So even you putting your finger in their mouth, they develop that connection to you. And it's a really, it's a really powerful thing. When my third baby came, you know, I've been in her mouth forever and she, it's just really, I loved it. I loved getting in her mouth and really exploring. And it was with her that I had all the pieces to the puzzle. And, and she's just, I mean, she's, she's my best baby. Right. And then my second, you know, my second also had like awful reflux. So then I went into the reflux hole and actually became a certified reflux specialist. And so that's part of the feeding mom too. And all of these kind of pieces just built into this business where I'm helping moms feel comfortable and all loving their feeding journey. That's like my goal, right. I don't want you to be like, oh, I gotta feed my baby now. That's so sad.

Yeah, I mean, that was me as a first time mom. You know, I. With Lily who's my now five year old? She, she was that tongue tied baby who everyone said was fine. And I took her to the lactation, you know, consultant at my pediatrician's office. And she positioned her and she fed fine in office. And it was like, you know, I always joke, everyone's heard me say this a million times if they've listened to this podcast, that it's like you take your car to the shop and it's totally fine when you're at the shop and then you drive it off the lot and you're like, wait, there it.

Is, there's the noise.

Like, that was my child.

Yes.

And it drove me insane because then you start to question yourself as a parent. You're like, well, I'm just obviously not doing it right, so let me go, like reconfigure how I'm holding her and positioning her. Maybe I'm not propped the same way. Maybe I need to buy that kind of chair. Maybe I need this. Maybe, you know, and it drives you nuts. But it's exactly what you said. I mean, it was. Not only was it painful and I couldn't heal because she was on me 24 7.

Yes.

Like, okay, well, I can't even leave the house because I'm feeding for every 45 minutes. Or if I do leave the house, I can drive to Nordstrom. By the time we actually get out of the house between the feed get to Nordstrom, I'll have to go to the mom's nursing room. I'll have to sit down and nurse her. And then 45 minutes in between where I can go shopping and be like a normal human. And then I'll probably have to go change her diaper, nurse her again. What was so interesting though with her was getting out of the house and putting her in the stroller and going like shopping. She would sleep for three hour stretches in her, you know, in her container, in her. And I always thought it was related to how it brought her like legs up more towards her belly and it would just make her feel. Feel better. Because in the uppababy car seat in the stroller, like with the movement, the bumpiness of the stroller, you know, not that it's super bumpy, but I was like, there was something about that combination of clicking that little seat right into the stroller, that it was never the same when I transitioned her out of the actual car seat into like the actual seat. It was something about, you know, the position of her body in that car seat. And that was my, like, only Saving grace. Like, that was what I would do, because I was like, well, it's either that or we're home all day. And I would go. I only worked two days a week, six hours a day. And I had my own company at that point, so I could do that. But, you know, the nanny would be texting, like, or I come home, and she'd be like, she took, like, an ounce in six hours. Or she wouldn't take anything. And they, you know, would try the bottle, and her daughter would come and come over and try to help her. And now we've got two of them trying to feed my child. And I would just be like, okay, just give her to. You know, And I'd come home wanting to, like, work out in the last half an hour before I, like, turn myself back over to my child. Look, she was running the show here. Nope, nope. I'd walk in and be like, okay, forget it. No workout, because she needs to eat. So, yeah, it was an interesting experience to have gone through, but also, that's also what threw me down this rabbit hole. And second, it was so much easier. We got her released at day five, and she was in and out of PT in her first year because she had some delayed, you know, motor milestones. Not super delayed, but I knew she was tight. We were really addressing her neck before she was even rolling over.

Oh.

We just kind of monitored her, and she. I shouldn't say she was delayed. She was probably on, like, the further end of, like, typical for, like, rolling over, sitting up, crawling, you know, which was so interesting because Lily, my first, was ahead of the game. She was ahead of the curve for everything. And she was my, like, horrible feeder.

Yes.

So I always tell parents, I'm like, you never know. Things don't always hold true from, like, one textbook definition of what the case might look like. Because my kids are complete opposite, and they both were tongue tied. But we also intervene differently at different times. And with my second, like, she is through and through. Like, my eater. Like, she's like, I try, Mama, what you eating? Like, if I open the fridge, what you got over there? Like, I can't. Like, there's no stealth, like, sneaking of anything in this household. And she will literally try anything. Doesn't matter how spicy, exotic. Like, she is. Like, and usually she's like, I like it. I like it. There's, like, three things in the entire world she does not like, and she's three. So, you know, it's just so funny because she never really went through that picky phase at all. It was just like, nope, give me all the food. And to the point where my older one is now, like, maybe I'll try that. Because, you know, Mia tried that. So I'm curious and I'm like, oh, thank you.

I do the same thing with my boys. Oldest is my. If I have a picky eater, it's him. And he just likes what he knows. Right. And so. But my second is not. He's the same way. And it's funny because, you know, I'll serve him first and he'll look at it and kind of be like, I'll try. And then my oldest is like staring over him, looking. He'll try too. Yeah, it is very interesting how the younger sibling is kind of pushing the older. Mm, yeah.

It's so interesting too with my oldest one because at this point, like, she'll eat. She'll eat veggies, she'll eat fruits. She eats, you know, she loves eggs, you know, but she does not like chicken, beef, or fish. She is my vegetarian through and through and like, to the point where I like. She doesn't really even love beans. So we're trying to, you know, sleep. Green beans, but. Yeah, yeah, Black beans. I think she tried pinto beans recently and they were okay. You know, it's. It's. It's very. Doesn't like chickpeas, you know. Very. Yeah, like, you know, to see the difference between the two of them. But she eats healthy. Yeah, Right. Stress too much about it. But it is just so fascinating because for me, she says it's not the oral motor piece anymore. Like, she says she can chew it because we've worked on all that. She's been in expansion. She's been through myo. She's been through feed. You know, we. I've done some feeding stuff with her, but she's like, no, I just don't like the taste. And I'm like, I don't know if you actually don't like the taste or if you've just learned you can say that.

I know it's interesting because, you know.

I won't force it. You know, I'll never. Yeah, you tell me you don't like how it tastes. You know, you're off the hook. Smart kid.

It's like, I don't fully believe you, but we'll go with it.

Too. Funny. So, yeah. So let's talk more about, you know, the feeding mom. And I know you've got. You do you. So you have supports for both moms, but also you do trainings for Therapists as well. So tell us about, like, the difference, I guess, with what the feeding mom offers.

So the. I mean, the trainings for the therapist really is. You know, I started with the therapy piece, and the feeding mom came when I became a mom. But the therapy piece is really. We found out that the early intervention is what's necessary for these babies, who then become your sensory and behavioral feeders. And so we started reaching out to GI doctors in our community and working with the PTs in our office, because they go to the pediatrician and say, we have reflux. The baby is diagnosed colicky. And, okay, we'll thicken and give them this medication, but no therapy. But a baby turns their head a little bit, let's go to physical therapy for torticollis. Physical therapists get those referrals. So I always encourage speech pathologists to get with your pts, because they're getting those referrals. Poke your head in when they say, you know, add to the PT list. Do they have reflux? Are they diagnosed colicky? Pop your head in and say, hey, just so, you know, we can work on those things.

No. And that's really. That's really smart because, you know, I work with a lot of business owners, and they're like, how do we get, like, these patients when the pediatricians just are not referring.

Yeah.

I'm like, I love our pediatricians, but they just don't.

I mean, they don't.

Sometimes they do. Once in a while, you've got a good one who really gets it, but it's really not traditionally the norm.

No.

So, you know, but that's a really. That's a very smart, you know, suggestion. Thank you for that. I mean, that's brilliant. Like, you know, let's. Let's tag. Tag team in a sense. Like, let's talk to other professionals who are getting these babies, who are getting the referrals. Because ultimately, I know I talk about this a lot on the show. Like, what happens in the mouth affects the whole body, from the tip of our tongue down to the tip of our toes. So if they're in PT for some reason, and maybe PT is also having trouble with making progress, maybe we putting our heads together. So I love that. That is so good.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And so I guess I. I started the feeding mom.

Right.

For parents. And then on Instagram, of course, speech therapists started following too. Right. It is the area that we work in. It's definitely becoming more known, typically for older kids. And so I've had them ask, you know, what do you do? What can we do? Like, get in their mouth. If you get a baby referred to you, it is not enough for us as therapists to just watch and say, oh, try a different bottle. Oh, try this position. Get in the mouth. Yeah. See, if they're relieving tension for torticollis, that tension is in the mouth, too. You need to be relieving some tension, too, in your therapy session. And that is how you make that good big change. Right. And so then I kind of was like, okay, let's work together as therapists, too. Yeah.

Like, arguably, that tension is coming from. From the mouth causing tension in cytomastoid. We got something going on over here. Like, hello, connected. You know, it's like we've got these muscles here, you know, that connect your hyoid. And guess what else connects to your Ohioid indirectly? Your tongue. So let's. Let's talk about anatomy and then the physiology. People, like, go back to grad your grad school textbooks. Break those out and look at, like, how everything connects everything else. And. And that is, you know, we try to teach on that too, because whether it be through, like, pee feeding or myo. Because if we don't understand how things are connected or how things should function, how do we know where the dysfunction is coming from? What's causing this dysfunction? And we can't possibly fix it by just observing a feeding and making some blanket suggestions that the parent. Probably the biggest thing, like, the biggest complaint I've had parents is call us for and say is, you know, hey. And sometimes you're like, I found you on the podcast or I found you on Instagram. And we're working with a therapist, and we really like her, but she's never gone in the baby's mouth. And, you know, I feel like I could. I've tried all these suggestions that she said, or I can't. I had these same ideas, but just did them anyways because she suggested them again. And, you know, I just don't feel like we're making progress. I'm like, problem number one.

Yes.

Nobody has been in the night. That is number. You know, first and foremost, the most important thing to do with these babies. And I. Look, I know we're in a pandemic. Hopefully we're coming out of this pandemic.

Yeah.

You know, and we've had a lot of us have had to try and thrive through virtual therapy. And that's fine. You know, you do what you have to do in certain situations, but when you're in person with that Baby, you better have your hand in their mouth. So thank you for highlighting that.

Yes. Because you just don't know. And it's. I mean. And if physical therapists can grab on that muscle and release tension, what muscle are we really looking at? The tongue. Right. That's our big muscle. Grab it and relieve some tension in that mouth. And I don't like to call it exercises. The baby, of course, can't follow directions. I'm not asking the baby to do active volitional movements. But if you are, manipulating the tongue and giving certain sensory input to certain parts of the mouth promotes that tongue movement. Right. Our tongue is meant to move in different directions when it's stimulated a certain way. So doing those things inherently releases that tension because the tongue begins to be more aware, move appropriately, sit in the mouth appropriately. The lips start to do what they're supposed to do. Right. The cheeks start to lessen their tension because they can. Oh, you can get some tight cheeks.

Oh, yes. When they're doing the job of the tongue and the lips.

Yes. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, yeah.

That's gotta be so uncomfortable for the baby. Right? Like, just to be so tense all the time.

Well, then you wonder why things aren't functioning properly, or they're swallowing too much air because they can't. Appropriate latch or lip closure, you know, or baby's colic, which is not. Which. We get that all the time. Like, colic is not a diagnosis.

No.

Is a symptom of a larger problem here.

Correct.

I mean, this stuff drives me up a wall.

So.

Yeah.

And then. So, yeah, so the feeding mom, you know, I give the moms those activities. I have the oral play guide for them. And it's not therapeutic. It's really. And, you know, a lot of times I'll have moms say, look, I do your activities. And I realized how much tension is in there, and it made me push for a referral. Right. Because, you know, moms are told, like you said all the time, everything's great. They're gaining weight, it's fine. Just put some rice cereal in the bottle. Everything will be okay. And then. But if moms feel that tension, it's like it almost empowers them to say, no, look, I know there's something wrong. Give me the referral. And that's what I find. Most of my moms are reaching out and saying, one, it makes the baby more comfortable with you, and it makes mom more aware of what's really going on. And that could be so powerful as a mom to know, look, this is a problem, and I know it is.

I think that's a really great point, too, because one of the things that I've done when working with infants is, you know, I will do the exercise, and then I demonstrate to mom. I do it myself so that I'm doing my assessment, figuring out what. What we need to do here. Then I'm basically showing mom, and then I'm having mom go in and do it before she ever leaves my office. Because some of these parents are like, did I do it right? Is that okay? Like, I don't know if I'm hurting them. Like, you're not. Yes. A little bit more pressure.

Yeah. Right, right.

I really want them to be confident because, you know, I think having that multisensory experience for the parents, like you're saying, it really shows them that they start to feel the difference from day one versus, you know, a couple weeks later. They can feel tension releasing. They can also feel like, you know, they can. They're better reporters. They can come back and say, oh, you know what? My child was really miserable yesterday. And they were really tight. Like, they were just. Things felt different. And I'm like, that's a pretty cool report. I'm sorry that happened. But look how you're becoming a great reporter, and this is a really great team approach that we're doing here. So I think there's so much power in allowing parents to go inside the child's mouth. We're not asking you to do therapy. We're asking just support your child's development. And. And every parent should be doing this. We should all be doing oral play. You know, I have. I hate to make this comparison, but I have to. It's like when I got a puppy. To me, you know, this puppy, like, if you plan to have children, because we got him first, they were like, you got to, like, put your hands all over his nose and in his mouth. You got to pull his tail. You got to do it while he's eating. It was just like, where. Like, nobody tells you this stuff. But somebody told me that it was the best advice I ever got, because guess what happens when you have a little toddler crawling the floor? They go take food out of the dog's bowl. Dog doesn't care. Or dog does care and get nasty, right?

Yeah.

They pull the dog's tail. They flip the dog's ear. They lay on the dog. You know, it's just that. So if you. But that's the whole idea. If you do it when they're a puppy, Right. If you get in these babies mouths when they're a baby, they're not going to have these negative sensory, oral, motor experience that they would if we've been in their mouth since day one. And it's all just play based, it's therapy that we're asking, you know. And so that's where I would love for you to share. Like if you have three top tips or something that you know, I know we're, we can share this video. We'll share this video on YouTube too. But you know, as far as like those who are just listening, if you can give us some tips that parents could do just some oral play from birth, are there like a couple simple things they can start doing now?

Yeah. So with your, I guess the first thing I would absolutely say is with your newborn, wrap a baby washcloth around your pinky and rub the gum line, right? I mean that is, that really gets the mouth motivated, the tongue becomes more aware and you're starting oral care right away. So I mean that is a huge one with toddlers, right? Toddlers hate brushing their teeth and do it from the beginning and it will significantly decrease the problems with that. But it also is really good for just their oral system altogether. The next thing I would do is don't be afraid to let that baby's neck stretch back. A lot of times we have them curled up, right? Even in their containers, they're curled up, they're swaddled and they're kind of all tight and curled up, right? Their car seat, they're curled up. And so let that baby hang back. And you know when you pick up your baby when they first wake up and they really get that good stretch and their neck falls back. I've had parents tell me, oh, that freaks me out. And I, and I stop it. And I'm like, don't stop it, let them get that good stretch. I mean, put your hand on their back and just let them stretch across you, right? So getting that head back and letting that neck stretch open is just great. You can do it on your legs, you can do it off of a pillow. But that's going to create some really good awareness for them of where they are in space and just them being more comfortable in themselves. And then the next one I would say is that we do, you know, the tongue is important and with the gum brushing, right, you'll see the tongue start to move the better. But the third main one is to not forget about the palate. Like I feel like we forget about the roof of the Mouth so much. If a baby, for whatever reason has that jaw hanging open, whether it's an oral restriction or low tone, that jaw hangs open. Even if the tongue tip is up, it doesn't mean the rest of the tongue is suctioned to the palate like it's supposed to. To be right. And it's not getting the stimulation, the input that it needs. So the last thing I would tell parents to do is you could use your finger and just swipe across that palate, let it become known in the mouth. But also you could get a baby toothbrush and put the bristles and just bristle brush on top of that palate space. And it just. You see such good movement and awareness from baby. Those are, those three things are easy peasy. And they're. And they're just meant one for you to be with baby and bond with baby. But also, gosh, the amount of sensory input they get from those three things is crazy. Good for them.

Yeah, no, those are great tips. Thank you. With the head back and the stretching, we, we as humans need to stretch.

We.

You know, that's why when you let that, like you said, when you let the baby out of like a swaddle, when they wake up, you see them, like, their arms and their legs just stretch out. It's the cutest thing ever.

And they do that like, little big.

Baby stretch with like a little yawn or something. Like, oh, great night of sleep. Like, I mean, it's like, it's adorable. But yes, no doing make it so funny because, like, my, I feel like my mom would be like, oh, my gosh, don't let the baby's head fall back like that. What are you doing? And like, no, they like it. Like, they throwing themselves into it. They like it. So I'm going to allow it and I'm obviously going to watch the spine and make sure that, like, they're not throwing themselves off my, my lap or.

Exactly, exactly.

Baby feels like they need this right now. Like, let's do it. And I feel like my second one did it a lot more than my first, which was so fascinating. Like, on her own.

Initiate it.

My first loved it. She loved being upside down, but it was different. And she was much. She was. I actually credit her tightness to why she was such an early crawler. You know, she was going up the stairs, five mounts that five months of age, crawling, like up the stairs, back down the stairs. A month later, she was crawling over the things that, like little Jim. And everybody's like, watching her and being they're like, your child can crawl up that, like, little baby rock wall thing, swing her legs around and slide down the other side. I was like. And she was like, 10 months old or something. I mean, it was, like, insane. I was like, yeah. And she would just hold herself on, like, the swinging, the monkey bars. She would just hold herself for, like, over. I timed her. It was like a minute and a half or two minutes or something. Insane. I was like, this is not normal. Like, I have some, like, right of a baby. Like, what is going on? And it was because she was so tense throughout her entire body. And it all makes sense now. She was also constipated kid until her tongue tie was released at age 2, and then that went away. And, you know, just. It's so interesting when we start to do these, like, case studies on our own kids, because we. We see them every day, and we see how many different symptoms change over time, especially with this different input. But one of the things I started doing with my second was that brushing with, like, baby bristles. And, you know, especially after working with so many patients, like, whether they were toddlers or adults in myo who, you know, like my. My feeding toddlers or my adult myocation, you brush a palette or you touch a palette, and if they've never had their tongue up there, it was, like, so hypersensitive that it was like, what are you doing? Don't do that again. Like, why are you even touching me right now? Like, that did not feel.

Yes.

And so that is a beautiful tip. With my second one, I took the baby toothbrush, and I would brush her palette, and I would actually go into her cheeks, too and be like, one.

Two, three cheek swipes on one side.

And one, two, three cheek swipe on the other. And then I would brush around the gum area, just a swipe up bottom, and we'd brush the teeth. And she'd be like, mama, what are you doing? And I'm, like, just playing. Just having some fun. Yes. But now she's used to it. She's used to that input, which I also feel like she's about to pandemic, about to go for her first dental visit in April, and I'm, like, crossing my fingers. That, like, all of this movement that I've done in her mouth, all this input, the sensory motor input. I'm hoping that she's, like, no big thing, whatever. I mean, she's also an easygoing kid, but you never know until they're backwards, upside down, underneath that light, and there's all These sounds around them, how the kids gonna respond. So, you know, I think that you made a really beautiful point that when you start some of these things early on, that whole challenge of trying to brush the teeth when you have to, now that they have teeth that have cut through or now they're eating solid foods, then it becomes challenging for these kiddos with.

And you know what? Like, so then we're holding them down because we have to brush their teeth now. Right. And so sometimes, you know, you see the behavior piece. So my kids are. My two oldest ones are almost five and three. And sometimes there's nights where they're like, no, I don't want to. And, you know, they're just being behavioral. And I'm like, just brush your teeth and you can get them to brush their teeth. Right. But these babies who are having to be held down and you getting in there because you have to brush their teeth, I mean, what is that?

You know, putting them in fight and flight. Fight. Or like, twice a day just to brush their teeth, which is important. We have.

But what if that was. What if it's really uncomfortable for them?

Yeah.

What if they are really so sensitive in their mouth and you're, like, really breaking that barrier for them? So it is. I mean, you know, what I will.

Add to that is just I had a conversation recently with one of my colleagues about, you know, we also don't want to lay them flat on their back and force them to brush their teeth, which I know for a parent who's trying to do it alone, like, that feels like the only solution, but it's dangerous. They can also, like, gag or choke, especially if they're already out of control. They're already in fight or flight. They're okay with sensory, motor, moral, sensory motor, you know, issue, oral issues, and let's say maybe they even have some swallowing things going on. We really have to be careful what you put them in when we're brushing. And so, you know, there's definitely protocols and things out there that people can do, if that is a concern. But I would say enlist a therapist or hopefully if you have a therapy. A therapy team, you know, you can talk to them about that, and they can help you come up with ways to reach them. So you can avoid having to, you know, stronghold your child to force that oral care, because we know that's not fun for anybody.

No, no.

So I know we talked. Let's go back to bottle feeding. We were talking about bottle feeding a bit, you know, early on, and whether a mama chooses to do it or ends up having to do it and wasn't planning on it. You know, you had made a really great point that there is no manual for this. Nobody teaches us how to bottle feed a baby. And I made the same mistakes with my first one. She was on her back usually we were holding the bottle too high. I was not working with infants at the time. I was actually, you know, five years ago I was working with toddler on up and I was not doing model feeding. She actually threw me into working with infants. Like right after I struggled with her, I started taking all the courses like, you know, and really wanting to hone my skill set. Reading, reading the text and working on infant tots, you know, omd, all that fun stuff. And so if there were like some tips you could give moms that you know, either. I mean, I'll let you decide what kind of top tips you want to share with them. But you know, I feel like for me as a mom just even knowing like how to position a bottle and how do I position a baby and how do I know, like when do you break? Do I have to burp them? Like there's just, you know, there was all these questions as like a new mom that I had that I was like, nobody taught me this and I'm a feeding specialist so that's.

Yeah, yeah, I felt the same way. I was like, I should know how to do this, right?

Like, why did they teach me this in school? This is not cool.

I guess for bottles I would say, you know, my top recommendations are always going to be find a comfortable way to side by feed them. That's just really important for oral motor development and latching in order for them to really control the pace of the feed. Right. So you know, putting them inside sometimes, I mean for me it's really easy. And you said that this is going to be on video too, right?

Yep, yep.

So some for me, it's super easy for me now to just place them out in front of me, right? And I'm just holding them. But I like, I do this all day, every day, right. Sometimes parents put them in this position and they're just like, this feels really awkward and I'm like, okay, well place a pillow out in front of you. Lay them side on their pillow and that way you have, you feel like you're in more control. But the second thing is like we don't want pressure on their head. Like they need full movement of their head in their jaw. So really having your support on their upper back and their neck is what's important with that position. Because, you know, in cradle position, you're limiting their movement. Movement altogether. Their head is in the crook of your arm. They can't move their head, they cannot move their jaw because gravity is helping push that down. And like you're, they're just in you, right? So that's, that's 1, 2, I guess is going to be, you know, how they feed. The bottle needs to be, of course, horizontal. You don't want baby sucking on. And now this is kind of a big, this is kind of a big thing that you might not agree with. But if you, if babies active, you know, the part of feeding a baby is to understand their cues, right? Like we want them to be in control. And so if you are placing the bottle horizontal in their mouth, you're watching that flow, making sure the liquid level is right above the nipple hole. But if babies stop sucking, so they need a break, right? They stop actively sucking, then you drop that little bottle, right? And you just let them kind of suckle and then nipple. If they're actively sucking, though, they need fluid in that whole space. A lot of times I've heard people say you decide when to drop the bottle. No, but that's not being responsive. That's not allowing the baby to control the feed.

We're on the same page. Okay, good with you? Yeah, I'm with you. Like, oh, boy.

I was kind of like, oh, I might get in a sticky spot here.

No, no, no, this is great. I am, I am very pro making, you know, pro responsive feeding. Very much so. Against, you know, it's even, you know, like I said, I started with a lot of the toddlers, right. So even with them, it's responding to their cues, responding to, you know, we might decide what they eat. They decide how much of it they eat. Now, I know that with an infant, we don't have as many options in terms of what we need to get into that little body, especially if there are weight issues. I know that that raises anxiety for all parties. But, you know, if you're forcing it, and especially if you're overfeeding, which has happened with quite a few of my patients, you know, over time, that causes a baby who doesn't want to eat, it actually makes the problem worse. And if you're responsive, they can actually relax more. They go out of that fight or flight, and they're going to be more willing to work longer, work harder at pulling, drawing milk out of the bottle. So I am 100% on the responsive feeding side of the table here. I'm glad we're on the same page. Yeah, me too.

Me too. Because, you know, sometimes. And, you know, I've even tried it on my own, I was like, let me just see how awful this is going to be. So, like, I'll be feeding, and I drop the bottle, and they're in an active suck. They get so angry. They're not ready to stop. Why am I making them? Right. So it's just anyway. Right.

Well. And that's my pillbox. You know, I've heard parents say, oh, well, I was told, feed the baby for, like, you know, X number of ounces and then stop and burp. And I'm like, if your baby is still going strong at 2 ounces and you've got to go, let them continue. Let them tell you when they need a break. Their body knows if they, you know, they might stop at two and three quarter ounces, they may stop at two and a half, they may stop at 2.1, who knows? But they will let you know if they need to stop. And I say that, too, because my first one was not a kid. I had to burp. I really didn't have to burp. Even though she was uncomfortable, she was not a kid who burped a lot. The air just did not come back up.

Yeah.

So, you know, it was one of those things where. And my mom was always like, hey, you got to stop and burp her. Like, stop after you're halfway through the bottle. And I was always like, no, no, no, no. Don't you stop that feed. You let that keep going. It's working.

That's part of the responsive piece. Right. Listen to your baby. They. They will tell you, don't worry.

Absolutely.

And I guess three would be. If you have. If you're seeing signs, clicking, losing milk out the side of the mouth, they never lose that tension in their hands.

Right.

If they're like this, the whole feed, they're arching their back. If they're just uncomfortable, get help right away. Something is going on, and those problems can just build into new problems. Yeah, no, thank you. Like, dysfunction follows dysfunction. Right. Like, if there's an disordered system, it's only going to create another disordered system.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And. And that's where, you know, I think we have a lot of parents who are then anxious and afraid.

Yes.

Into solids because they're like, this has not been going well, and I don't want to mess that up. And can you help us? And so it's, you know, it's Feeding is one of those things that's supposed to be an enjoyable experience.

I know, I know.

And you just think it's going to go. Go a certain way and then it doesn't. And, you know, and the one thing that a lot of the thing that bothers me the most in all of this is not that, you know, aside from the fact that this baby is not getting the services that they need when pediatricians or other providers are not referring appropriately or listening to the parent, but it's really that they're not listening to the parent because we also have a lot of these moms who are in their fourth trimester who have postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, you know, and here they're basically being shut down when they've probably worked really hard to build up the courage to say, something's wrong with my baby and I need your help. And then all of a sudden they're just being told, your baby's gaining weight. Fine. It's just a little tongue tie. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, and I know that we, we make, you know, we make reels on Instagram and we have fun with this topic because it's just how the information gets seen and we want to. Yes, we're talking about it a bit, but, you know, I encourage any because we've had, this was originally made for professionals, but we've had a lot of moms from all over start following the podcast and that's got to have you on. They need to know about you. You know, so many of them have reached out and have asked, you know, what bottle do I use and what pacifier? And I'm like, I can tell you what my gold standard is, but that doesn't. The right thing for your baby.

Right, Right.

You know, if it's not working, that's when it's time to seek, to seek in, you know, an individualized evaluation and potential services. And so, you know, but I, what I want to say is, like, to all the mamas, you know, that are listening, whether you're a therapy mom or a non therapy mom, you know, keep advocating. Be 100%. Yeah. We did an episode with one mama who is an ot and she just said, you know, be unapologetically, you know, yes, yourself and just go after it. Be ambitious. You know, just keep advocating for what, you know, your child needs because, you know, and don't let anyone.

Yeah. And even like within your family, too. Like, I'm going to put my husband on blast. But like, I'm always in my daughter's mouth. And we talk about it with my son all the time. And it is so important. I just want to say nasal breathing, it just is so, so important for, like, a number of things. And so it is talked about a lot in my household. But sometimes, like, he's just like, will you just leave their mouths alone? And I'm like, no, no, I will not. Because you are an adult who snores so loud you never get restful sleep. And I don't want my babies growing up like that.

Yeah, no, it's. I mean, absolutely. I get it. I got it. I mean, my. My husband, who doesn't like me talking about him either. He, you know, he's going through adult expansion now at this, and he's not happy about it either. He is, like, kicking and screaming all the way. And I'm like, you're doing it. I don't.

You're doing your sleep.

Like, you have me. Like, this is happening. Don't fight me on this. And I mean, it took a while to get him on board, and he did agree to do it and everything, but it took also a home sleep study to show him like that. Just because you don't snore all night, your mouth is still open. Sometimes he will sit up, like, coughing for air. And like, this scares me. Like, this is not okay. What I know tells me we need to fix this problem, and I also need to prevent this in my kids. And I will, you know, do that to the extent that I have the control over that. But, yeah, no, it is, you know, and. And I get it because I'm also constantly looking at my kiddos. I've got my five year old who might be a little congested, and one night she's on her pillow and her head's tipped up, and I'm like, oh, no. Her lips are closed, but her head's tilted up. And I'm like, she's trying to open her airway. Okay, let's like, you know, let's do some xlear. Let's see if we need some, like, allergy, you know, whatever. Like, let's see what's going on and just monitor those tonsils. I don't know what her adenoids look like right now, but I swear it's like that never ending. Like, yeah, you know, you're constantly, like.

You know, you know. Yeah.

I don't want to overlook anything because now I know it and I would never forgive myself. So, you know, but it's. Yeah, but no, I always Tell moms. I'm like, look, you might not be the therapist in this space, but, you know, you know, if something is off and that's where you absolutely do everything in your power to find that professional that's going to help you figure out the reason, root cause of what's going on, not just slap some band aids on it. Like, let's figure out that root cause.

Yes.

So where can these mamas find you if they want to take one of your courses or find your resources?

So I have a website, it's thefeedingmom.com and I post an obscene amount of information on instagram. It's@infant.feeding specialist. And that. Yeah, that's where you can find me. You know, the Instagram. I mean, you can just. So much information out there now, right? I mean, just like. And then you're. Yeah, if there's tons, go there first.

Yes, yes. No, that's awesome. And you know, I love, I love what social media is doing in terms of some of these spaces because when you're up at three in the morning breastfeeding or bottle feeding a baby, especially one that's not eating well, and you're trying to, you know, just look at information that's going to be helpful to you, it's really become very interesting to see, like, how many professionals are taking the time to create this information in the space. And, you know, it can be hard to know who to listen to or, you know, who has the right information, who's really truly specialized in this space. And so I really try to find the people that are and bring them on here. So thank you.

Appreciate that.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for joining us on here. And what we will do is we will make sure in the show notes that everybody has access to your website and your Instagram. And you had also shared a couple articles with us that we can link to with like early, you know, oral motor intervention issues. And so we'll make sure that those, those articles are linked. But is there anything else that we didn't talk about today that you want to chat on?

No, I don't think so. I guess I do, you know, because there is a lot of information out there. So I will say that whatever you follow, if it's not working, it's not working. Right, right. So if it doesn't really matter what anyone says, if there's still signs of discomfort and struggle and then we need to try something else. It's just like in therapy, if you're doing this therapy plan that you thought was going to be the best thing ever, and they're not progressing, then something needs to change. So don't live in thinking that this is the only thing. Right. This was my only solution and it didn't work. Don't stop there. Like there's something out there that can help.

Absolutely. I love that. I love that. And I will plug the website that we've also created where we have some. Some therapists that have graduated Pete, that I can't even talk feed the peds. So we've created pediatricfeedingtherapist.com and we're trying to get anybody who goes through our course added to there because we know that it's. It can be so hard to find a pediatric feeding therapist. But where are you located in case they want to connect with you?

I'm in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Okay. All right. Yeah. So. So for those of you who don't know us SLPs, we have to stay within the state that we are licensed in. And so sometimes, you know, I know in the pandemic, the doors opened a little bit for being able to do some cross state. Depending on what state it was. Yeah, depending on the state. But, you know, like, for example, we were able to treat in D.C. if we had a Maryland license or a Virginia license without a DC license during COVID but that's coming to an end at the end of March, so. So, yes, but if you're in Louisiana, definitely look up Mallory. She's a great resource. She's here for you. Thank you so much, Mallory. This has been amazing.

Yes. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you want to hear more of these Myo Tots, Airway and Feeding related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple podcasts or pledge a small amount on patreon.com forward/the untethered podcast. If you found value, others you know in this space will too. So be sure to share this episode on your social media platforms and join us over on Facebook on my Facebook page @hallebulkin biz, on Instagram at Hallebulcken. And you can head over to theuntetheredpodcast. Com to grab a copy of the show Notes where you can also subscribe to be kept up to date on the latest podcast episodes.