Episode 135: Arming our Parents to be their own Advocates with Kayla Richardson MS CCC-SLP, CLC

Hi and welcome to episode 135 of the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Kayla Richardson joining us. Kayla is a speech language pathologist and certified lactation counselor. She specializes in treating infants and toddlers with pediatric feeding disorders. Specialty areas of treatment include tether, dural tissues, airway, oral, motor and lactation. Kayla is the owner of Abay Speech and Feeding Therapy, a small private practice in St. Louis, Missouri. She's also the founder of Functional Feeding Academy and online education platform for parents which will launch later this year. Kayla is the mother of two young children, both who have struggled with feeding and myofunctional disorders. Quick disclaimer. All information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified health care provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Hallie Balkan. I'm a certified orofacial myologist, feeding specialist and mentor. This podcast. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, tethered oral tissue and airway space. I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to get this information out to the masses. Let's get started. Well, Kayla, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to chat all things feeding.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited.

So I think it's really cool because you actually got started with feeding right out of school as a CF, which is pretty unusual for a lot of SLPs that I talk to. So tell us a little bit about that and your journey.

Yeah, so it was kind of an accident, a happy accident. So my husband is military, so right out of school I had to make this big move down to Tennessee and I got my first job as a cf, was a private practice. And my supervisor, the owner of the company, she just, she specialized in feeding and she got her training from Vanderbilt, happened to like have this whole, you know, training she did while she was in school. So I got there and she was kind of like, it wasn't at first the intention, but she was like, do you want to learn this? And I was like, sure. And I kind of fell in love with it like right away. Like thought it was so interesting. But it was mostly the one and above crowd, right? Like more toddler type. And I've heard you talk before and it's like interesting the parallels Right. And so I had this knowledge. I got training. It was great. Mostly like, like I said, one and above, usually under five, so that young early intervention area. And then I continued my education, took a little break from being a therapist in general when I had my first kid. But of course, that kind of catapulted me even more into what I do. We'll probably hit on that a little bit later about what went down with my own kids. But so today I run my own private practice, and our specialty is feeding. Zero to five, comprehensive. And when I say comprehensive, I mean, like, we do bottle, we do breast. I have my clc, so I see breastfeeding moms. We do bottle feeding. We do Introduction to solids. We do picky eating, like the entire gamut, if you will.

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. So, I mean, so you're talking over here with working with these EI kids, these early intervention kiddos, which I think is so critical because we all know if we can help them get their. I always look at a full body system, right. It's not just their mouth, not just their feeding skills, but if we can help get them on track and help the body work, you know, in the symbiotic relationship from one system to the next. And I just think it's. It's so important. And I mean, you've heard me. I preach early intervention all day long.

I'm with you. I'm with you through and through. Every time I listen to you talk about it, I'm like, yes, yes, yes. But I love you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. And I'm trying to train people here. And I mean, it's just we need so many more therapists who have these skills. But how did you get into, like.

The birth to one age? You were mentioning your own kiddos. It sounds like we.

It was. Yeah, it was. Yes, it's exactly that. So what I'll say before that is kind of to hit on what you just said is like, a lot of my early training was already very, like, oral motor base. Right. Like, one of my first courses was Lori Overland course. This is my motor approach. Yeah. Yes. And so, you know, I started looking at that very closely early on, and then as. As I went through this process with my own kids, you know, I started to learn a little bit more about myofunctional therapy and the airway. And, like, that changed everything for me about my practice. It was like, light bulbs going off, missing piece. Like, I don't think I've ever seen a Single kid where I'm like, oh, like, this whole thing is playing a role, right? And, like, I don't even know how I was doing the therapy before. Like, you know, I want to call all the people I saw and be like, oh, we may come back, come.

Back, and we may need to see how everything's going.

Yeah. So like I said, so I did the feeding therapy for about a year, got pregnant with my first child, had her, went into it. Like, I got this, right? Like, I know feeding. I got this. This is going to be a breeze. And it was not so first. First day in the hospital after she was born, you know, she was slow to gain or, like, she lost too much weight. Pain right away. The lactation consultant came in, like, how you need to pump because we've lost more than 10% and we don't know what's going on. And I'm having all this pain, and it was kind of a blur and a disaster, and I didn't get good support. It was very. Like, I was like, this is painful. And she just kept being like, well, if it hurts, you're not doing it right. And so, like, it's your fault. Oh, yeah. I just kept at it. And I internalized that so hard, right? Like, she would try to show me. Like, we'd get ready to latch, and Evelyn would, like, open her mouth. I wish I had, like, knew what I knew then, because it was probably, like, not wide enough. And then she would. The lactation would come and, like, push her head right, like, into my breath. Oh, my gosh. And so, like, I'm, like, traumatized. And I just heard, like, you're not doing it right. You're not doing it right. And so for the first, like, six weeks, I just was. I mean, nine or 10 out of 10 pain. It was excruciating. Yeah. I'm stubborn, and I was not. I mean, I told my husband. I'm like, if I wake up tomorrow and say, I want to quit, don't let me. And he stayed true to it, like, in a very respectful way, but he would just keep bringing me back. You want to do this? Keep doing it. You told me not to let you quit. So I just dealt with the pain for, like, six weeks. And I even went back for an outpatient visit, and we got there, and they were like, well, her latch looks good. And they did a weighted feed, and they were like, well, she transferred enough. And I'm like, okay. So again, I just felt like, as a mom, you know, what do you do? You're not just brain anymore, right? When, when you've had a baby, I'm like, okay. And so honestly, after about six weeks, the pain resolved, which now I know she just began to compensate. And she, outside of that, she didn't have a lot of other symptoms, or so I thought at the time. Right. She, she wasn't a reflux baby. She wasn't gassy. She was happy. She was always like 5 percenter on the growth chart. So it was always kind of like slow, but like she was a typical 5 percenter. And we know like, she's following her curve. Like, you know, it's fine. So we kind of just like tabled it. She transitioned into solids really well. Speech was beautiful.

Sounds so much like Lily. Like, so many parallels here.

There's so many parallels. Every time I hear you talk about it, I'm like, are you living my life?

Although it was painful for me for like 13 months, and it wasn't always horribly painful. It was like, it kind of like ebbed and flowed. But yeah, I mean, it was. She was the kid who wanted to be on the breast 45 minutes out of every hour. Like, she just wanted to hang on me all day long.

She, for sure. And again. So like, in my head I'm like, oh, we got so much better. But like, looking back on it, she never made it to the two hour mark before. She wanted to feed again. Like, she constantly wanted to feed. So she was compensating in a lot of ways. But it felt like we made it through and like, whatever. I had no idea about tongue tie at that point in time. In fact, what I remember, the only thing I learned in school was like, there was this study that said, like, kids who had tongue ties, whether they got surgery or not, they still needed speech afterwards. Like, that's what I learned. So like, but it was presented to us in a way of like, does this really matter?

Right? Like, we can skip this because you're.

Going to need speech anyways anyway.

Oh my God.

So like, we know that's true, right?

Yeah.

Yes, you still do need therapy. But like, that's not what we should have taken from that.

But so anyway, but also can it decrease therapy? Do they look at lengthen therapy?

Because now I need to see this study. Yeah, we have questions, right? We have questions. So then little sister comes along, my sweet Audrey, which by the time she was born, my oldest was two and she was just a mess in all accounts when it came to feeding. So immediately, same thing, I put her to breast and I'm like, that hurts. And so I'm in the hospital and I'm like, I would like a lactation consultant to come and see me like now, like, like 10 minutes ago. I need someone in here. So they finally come in to see me. And it did take a while. And I'm like, hey. Like, I'm in pain here, done this. Been here, done this. I went through six weeks of, you know, level 10 pain, bloody nipples last time. Like, I don't want that to happen to happen again. I want to be proactive. Like, can you please look at this and tell me what to do? And she looks and she says, well, latch looks pretty good. I do see some dimpling in her chin. And we are in her cheek and we don't really love to see that. So I'm like, okay. But no strategies were given. She left. And she said, I'll come check back on in on you tomorrow. And I'm like, okay. So I mean, history just basically like, I know, I know it's like laughable.

But it's like I laugh out of despair because, like, even as a therapist, like you said it before, all of our knowledge goes out the window when it's your own child. Especially, like post birth. Like, you're in this state of just, I don't know, there's just so. You're exhausted and there's just so many hormones and like, everything, you know, just literally goes out the window. And you know enough to know this doesn't feel right. But also you don't know enough to know, like, what do I do? Right? So you ask for help. And then they basically say, okay, see you tomorrow. Like, yeah, that doesn't look right. But see you tomorrow. Like, well, what do we do? Like, what do I do?

Kind of like, it doesn't go in tomorrow, but it doesn't look right. And I'm like, okay, right? And like, yeah, like, looking back now and like with the knowledge I have, I'm like, duh. Right? Like, I'm like, oh, my gosh, if I only knew. Or maybe I wouldn't have known because I was in that new mom haze or whatever, but it's. It's just so obvious to me now. So she. Yeah, again, we got no help. It wasn't quite as painful as the first go around, so I kind of just did the same thing. I just kind of was like, okay, I guess this is what breastfeeding is for me. You know, I knew what to do to like, heal my nipples and we, you know, made it through. However, she was very Quote, unquote colicky and had a lot of reflux and a lot of gas and a lot of stomach issues. And when she was about six weeks, two months old, somewhere in there, I started to notice a lot of GI problems. Mucus in her stools, she was red cheeks, rashy. And my niece had struggled with food intolerances. So my sister in law, who's also a nurse practitioner, they came to visit and I was like, we just, we look at her, her diaper and she was like, oh, yeah, that's what it is. So there were a variety of things. I had also noticed in her that she had a head turn preference. And I feel like everyone around me thought I was nuts. I was watching her, she was only going to the right, and then I could get her to go to the left, but she wouldn't stay there and she'd whip her head back and there was that tension there. So I went through three pediatricians because the first pediatrician told me that there's no way that anything I was eating could possibly be affecting her. So I was like, okay, well, I know you're. Yeah, I know you're wrong. And so I finally found a pediatrician who I love. We are still with her. And like, I walked in, I told her the whole thing and she was like, yep, you're right. And I was like, yeah, I know. I'm aware. I've done all the research and I've been. This is consuming me. So, yeah, I'm very aware that this is what's going on. I just wanted to make sure, you know, I already know what to do. I've already made the diet changes, whatever. I just wanted to make sure we were in a place where I felt like I was being hurt. So we got PT in the home and I had been dealing with the diet stuff, but still not great, right? So she's still having reflux. She was a projectile spitter all day long. But we were getting the PT to help with the body and the tension and the asymmetries. And the day that things clicked, Gina, my. My physical therapist was at my house working with Audrey, and she was like doing all the floor work and we were talking through it and Audrey got hungry and so I breastfed her and then I gave her back to Gina and she was like, whoa. Oh, she's so tight now. Like, you fed her and now all of her tension is back. And so I started digging around on the Internet and, you know, something clicked. And I was like, she has a tongue tie. She has a Tongue tie. And so I checked her the best way I knew how at the time, and I was like, yep. And then the more I read and the more I learned, then likes started going off about Evelyn and I was like, oh, my life has just changed. Okay, what are we going to do.

About this flip upside down? Okay.

It was like two full years of like, oh my gosh, everything makes so much sense now. So we got Audrey's release done. She was nine months old. We got it done. And she was. By this time, she was getting therapy with another speech therapist that I know who specialized in feeding. She was struggling. She would only eat a thin puree from a beechnut baby food jar. That is all she would eat. I mean, I have videos that I took of just like holding a banana out in front of her and letting her, you know, being responsive, letting her come to it, but she just like gets her lip on it and throws up like. Yeah. So we went through the whole. I mean, at every stage it has been hard from her and she's still a really selective and picky eater. But anyway, I digress a little. We got the release done. We were doing therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy. Within two weeks of the release, she stopped projectile vomiting.

Oh my gosh. I mean, if that doesn't tell you right there, like, how much tension that poor child was carrying through her body as well as the disruption to her entire central nervous system and beyond. I mean, like, holy cow.

Uh huh.

So, I mean, tell me it's not connected. Please, somebody tell me that it's not connected.

Seriously? Seriously. And yeah, like I said, like, when I gave her back to the PT and she was like, she's so tight. And I was like, oh my gosh. Okay. It just like changed. Of course it, like, was life changing from a parenting standpoint. But, like, that moment sticks out to me. And like, that is the day I changed as a therapist. That is the day that I realized how intertwined everything in the body was. And that, like, I was just kind. Not that, you know, I had a lot of knowledge, but I was like, I'm going about this the wrong way.

Yeah, that's like when I took my mayo course. And then I came back and I flipped Lily upside down and I looked under her lip and her tongue and I was like, oh, okay. And then I went to an ENT who was like, but she's not breastfeeding, so we're not going to release. And then I went to another ENT where I actually wasn't even really going for the Tongue tie. At that point, I wanted him to look at her tonsils. And he was like, they're unimpressive. And I was like, I'm very impressed. She's got very little airway space back there to breathe. Okay. And then I found the oral surgeon who released her. And the next day, her constipation went away. And I was not obviously going for that reason. I just had a kid who was struggling with constipation. Probably was not prepping her food. Well, she was picky ish. But, like, had only. I'd say she was fine until about 15 months. And I, at that point, she did, like, vomit in her crib that night because she had way too many vaccines. She's like, five in one day. Which I was like, who does that? Who gives the kid five vaccines? If they have a reaction, you know what they reacted to. It was like one oral and four shots. And I was like, okay, I'm not an anti vaxxer by any means, but at the same time, like, that's just stupid.

So.

And then of course, she slept in her vomit that night because we didn't know. We didn't. And thankfully she was a belly sleeper. She wasn't a back sleeper, thank goodness. But, like, after that, she'd had chicken and fish. That day is never, like, doesn't still to this day at age 6, like, does not want to eat that stuff and is just starting to explore chicken a little bit from one restaurant. It's encrusted in. It's so bizarre. We just moved. There's this, like, fresh kitchen restaurant, which I love because it's like farm to table, non gmo, you know, all of our sustainably sourced foods, whatever. So she likes the chicken that's like, fully encrusted in almond. And I'm like, I think it has, like, this crunch factor on the outside and some, like, flavor profile that she likes. So she's willing to eat it, but she will not eat, like, she'll only eat one other type of, like, organic chicken nugget out of the freezer that is covered in ketchup. Covered in ketchup. And she didn't need the ketchup for this other chicken. I was like, my life has changed. We are eating here all the time.

Big wins, right? Big wins in Parmesan.

Parmesan broccoli that has, like, a really high flavor profile. And she'll say to you, like, oh, this is spicy. And she doesn't mean hot heat spicy. She means this is too much flavor for me, which Is interesting because then if we put salt on, like, you know, roasted potatoes, she's like, I need more. There's no salt on it. And we're like. We are all like, okay, there's. My mom put extra salt for you. And we're over here, like, whoa, salt. And she's like, I need more salt. I don't taste the salt. So it's. She's like this mixed sensory kiddo. It's like sometimes it's hypo.

Hyper.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, it's. I was actually just recording a training yesterday, talking about this, and so it's like, all fresh in my mind. And like, when she was a baby, she would breastfeed, which people know the history of. But when she drank breast milk from a bottle, cold, it had to be cold. And I think it had to do with her ability to control it and sense and feel what she was drinking out of a bottle versus a breast, even though I was using Dr. Rounds. And then when she went into eating foods cold, she wanted them straight from the fridge. My mom was like, this is cruel. Why didn't you heat the green beans up? And I'm like, girlfriend won't eat them. She wants them cold. But I'm like, watch. If I give them to her cold out of the fridge or I warm them up just to make them room temp. And I. Again, I think it was a sensory thing. Like, she could feel it and control it better, and so she. It was safer, in a sense. And that didn't click for me until, like, several months ago, because I never understood why she wanted cold. I was like, okay, she's got a temperature preference, whatever. Obviously, she's not going to eat something that's too hot and burn herself, but. So she's always shied away from, like, hot food and preferred the cold. Whereas, like, my daughter, who we had released at five days old, who had a great breastfeeding experience, who is the eater of all things, will eat any temperature. She'll even pick something up that's too hot and burn her mouth and then put it down and go like, oh, too hot. You know, it's like no reserve for the first one, who is, like, gonna wait till it's set out for 20 minutes and then I'll eat it.

Yeah, here we are with our parallels again. Because Audrey, you know, my youngest one with the GI problems and the whole thing, she's the same. She will specifically ask me for cold hot dogs. She wants. She'll be like, I want chicken nuggets. And I'M like, okay, and I'll get them out to cook them. And she's like, no, no, no, no.

I want them cold.

And I'm like, you can't eat them frozen. Like, like, she loves it. And, like, even when we have, like, ice cream or frozen yogurt, like, this kid can take the most giant bites of this, like, cold food. And so I'm always somewhere between, like, sensory and then, like, did you have a little bit of nerve damage that went down when you got your release? Like, can you not feel that? Like, I'm terrified. But yeah, it's, you know, the whole system. We have a sensory motor system, right? Like, they work together. And all of our sensory systems are different. So it's just. No kid is the same. You just got to figure them out. And, like, how do you do that? You need a lot of help to do that.

But.

The last thing I wanted to say about my kids and how, you know, that clicked, and then I started to look at the airway stuff. I think my old. So my oldest, who is now seven. She's almost seven. She was seven in a couple weeks. So we didn't do anything about her ties, right. And so I thought we weren't having any symptoms, but she has always been a little picky. She eats like a bird. Like, she. And I don't mean, like, physically, like, she does pick up things, and, like, she'll eat just enough to keep herself full until, like, next time, right? Like, she. The volume she takes in has always been very small and, like, whatever, okay, you're a small kid. Her sleep was terrible for her entire life. And so the piece of this puzzle that is airway, that is sleep, was extremely life changing for me and for her. We spent in the same way. I felt like I really had to advocate about feeding for Audrey. I mean, I had so many conversations with our doctors about Evelyn's sleep developmental. You know, it's normal for her to keep waking. And to an extent, like, I got that, and I do get that when it comes to babies, right? Like, they're all different. It's normal for them to wake to a certain extent, but she. She couldn't go down without me. It took her so much time to, like, wind down and calm her body down to go to sleep. She has high anxiety. She. I mean, she still. She still sleeps with me. Like, she cannot. I mean, she just struggles so hard. And so finally, when she was 4 and after I had learned some things, like, I could hear her breathing, like, just slightly. It's not She's a perfect example of like, she wasn't snoring, her mouth wasn't open. She just. I could hear her when I was laying next to her. So I could just hear the resistance. I could hear the resistance. So when she was 4, I pushed and pushed our doctor for a sleep study, which of course I need to go find it and read it now that I know things, because they were like, well, she's not having any apneas, right? But there was some atypical breathing. So again, I stand in a place where someone's going, well, something's not super, super, right. But there's not really anything you can do about it.

Yeah.

So I'm like, okay. So I know now there is. Yes. Okay. So like this past year I finally, I mean, like I had just reached my, my limits with it, right? Like I was just like, oh my gosh, your sleep is so terrible still. You are six. You are six years old. This is horrible.

And I could tell she was just.

So emotional during the day and her anxiety was horrible and her attention is poor. And really hope she doesn't listen to this one day and hear me like saying all these horrible things about her. I love her and. No, but it's hard, right? It's hard.

Yeah. How do we help you be rested? How do we help you get the rest? You need that quality sleep so you can function at your best, like as a mom. That's all we want, right? Is our kids to be able to eat and function at their best. Like, yeah.

And it was so relatable to me and how I function. So I was just like, I want to help you so much because you.

Don'T end up like this.

I don't want you to end up like this. Yeah.

Like me. An orthodontic relapse case.

Yes. So I have an ENT in the.

Area who I love.

He get, he gets airway, right? And so I brought her in there. He's really good about looking, like scoping, Right. And so tonsils were not big. I really, I kept looking and I'm like, they're really not big. They're not in plane. There's nothing there. So I brought her in there and I kind of told him what was going on, brought him through the whole thing. We had had a myofunctional evaluation by this time with one of my colleagues in the area who does work with like older kids. So she confirmed the tongue tied diagnosis, which I knew was there, but just hearing someone else professionally say it, like, I was like, thank you. Like, I knew this was there.

I'm not over pathologizing anything. Thank you for making me feel not crazy. Okay. Yeah.

So I bring her in to see the ent and he's like. I'm like, can we just look? And he's like, yeah, yeah, let's go, bro.

Let's take a look.

And he's like, her adenoids, they're a little big. Like, they could be causing a problem here. And I said, okay, so let's talk about her tongue tie. And he was like, I'm not going to put her under to release her tie. And I'm like, I'm not asking you to do that. I wouldn't ask you to do that. But she doesn't even like to get her teeth cleaned at the dentist. So there were like, okay, how are we going to go about this? Right? So after he saw that her adenoids were big and determined that he thought she could benefit from adenoidectomy, he said, I'll do the tie release while she's under, since I'm already putting her under. And I was like, okay, thank you. So he sutured her and everything, so we didn't have to do any of the stretches afterwards. But her sleep improved tremendously between the adenoids and the Tyrell and the myofunctional therapy. Um, her. She also would spend, like, most of her day when she was doing anything passive with, like, her jaw jetted forward and her, like, mouth open, right? So she just says, yeah, she just made, like, this tremendous progress, like, with all of that since doing it. So it's like. It's so interesting the way all these kids present differently. Right. I wouldn't have said that she had a feeding problem necessarily. Like, there were things. But she now eats more in volume. She has been trying new foods, which. And of course, my home is very set up to deal with picky eating. So there's that, too. It's not just that on its own, but it's just been crazy that even when it's not the severe feeding thing. Right. We've had such a. An impact on quality of life from sleep and breathing, and we're probably not done. I think she could use some expansion and all of that. But it's a journey. It's a long game. It's a long game. That's why I keep telling my parents it's a long game.

And it's interesting, too, because, you know, I was just presenting with Michael Galban, Lane Martin, and some others and listening to them talk and Looking at what the cbcts they were sharing, and most of theirs were, you know, older individuals, not tiny little pediatric cases. But it got me thinking, and I started looking at Lily's face even more, and I was like, we've done alf. She had this beautiful palatal growth. I'm sitting there talking to Lane Martin, and he's like. But he's like, she still needs some more anterior growth. Like, not her maxilla, but more on her mandible. And I'm looking, and I'm like, dang it.

He's right.

I'm thinking, like, we're good for a while. But you know what? That could also be contributing to the fact that she's been in Mayo, and we've kind of started and stopped Mayo. A lot of her, like, her oral rest, posture is great now. Her. Her swallowing is great. She's preparing foods properly. You know, I don't have concerns there, but that s. We could not get that list to correct. And as a speech mom, I was kind of like, okay, we're going to deal with it over the summer. And we did start doing some therapy, and then things just kind of fell off, and we moved, and kids went to camp and whatever, and things just happened with life, life, life, right? So now she's actually going to start back in a couple of days with one of my SLPs with Jess and address that component of it. Because I also think as we changed her anatomy, things shifted. And so I think it's just taught me a lot, like you said, like, it's taught me so much as a clinician mom, that we can do things, but once you change the hard tissue, Right. It's not. We're talking about bone here, not just the soft tissue that we deal with in myo. When things shift, sometimes things fall apart and have to be retaught again. And so that's kind of where we're at. She's kind of ebbed and flowed with that S sound. Her speech otherwise is beautiful. Like, I don't have these large issues in her concerns. But now I'm thinking, I wonder if it's partially has to do with her anatomy, if her jaw is sitting a little too far back still. Like, we're talking about maybe doing a lip bumper or something for her to help just grow that mandible and kind of bring the mandible forward a little bit. You know, I'm like, there's so many pieces to this puzzle. And even us clinicians who specialize in this are still figuring it out, because every case is so different. How children respond is so different. Like we've talked about. Lily got her tongue tie released and the constipation went away the next day. Positive side effect that I wasn't expecting.

Right.

But also it allowed us to get in there and start working on expanding our food profile again. And I'll say that greatly improved after her expansion. And tonsils decreased a lot with the expansion, which of course I can't say other but interesting. In the middle of cold and flu season into expanding her palette. And then Alf all of a sudden, her tonsils that she'd had chronically large for her entire life, like size 3, 3 plus, went to like a 1. You could barely see them.

I think told recently that there was some dental research emerging on that. If I'm.

I mean, it makes sense, right?

It makes total sense. Like breathing through your mouth. Like you think about what your nose does for you. Yeah, of course, of course. That makes sense. So it's.

But also structures collapsing on each other and inflammation and, you know, things get inflamed. Well, what happens when we start to put structures where they belong and we start to put the pieces of the puzzle back to where they belong and things are no longer collapsing on themselves. Other systems can also work better. Right. I have like this 10 bucket analogy that I use where I say, like, we've got 10 buckets of energy. You got a tongue tie, take away a bucket. You got a lip tie, take another bucket away. You've got enlarged tonsils, take away another bucket. Now this kid is functioning at 70% capacity, right. And we can keep taking buckets away with every other symptom until we're functioning with the child who's really working with 20% capacity. And we wonder why they don't eat. They have no energy to deal with that. They're going to eat what's safe, what's easy, what they know they can, you know, gets them the energy that they need. They're not going to work at trying to eat something that's challenging, especially if their teeth don't come together or they know that they're going to have to chew that food 75 times to try or mash it on their tongue excessively to try and, you know, swallow it. Or they've maybe had it before and then had some stomach upset following some digestive upset because swallowing air with it or not breaking the food down properly. I mean, there's so many compounding factors and variables that go into this that I'm like, when you overanalyze this like, we do, right? It makes sense to us. But for like, most people, they don't look at it the same way. We realize, like, oh, yeah, I mean, hey, enlarged tonsils also, not only does it obviously shrink the amount of space you have to breathe and make the airway smaller, it doesn't feel good to swallow food past those tonsils that aren't prepped.

Right.

I mean, so, hello, Soft foods that break down really easily or purees that we can't seem to get kids to go to move past sometimes. It's no wonder they prefer those foods. I mean, it makes sense. It's not like kids are born and they go, you know what? I'm going to be a really difficult feeder because I really want to piss my parents off. Like, no, babies don't do that. That's.

They want to eat. They want to eat. That's why I have this conversation all the time. I'm like, I promise you, if he can, like, there was nothing in the way he would. We just have got to figure out, like, what it is that's impacting and maybe it's multiple things. And like, yeah, like this whole. Your body is this whole system. And it's like the biggie, like you said, it's like the breathing. Because if you can't, you. I think you are the one who says all the time, like, you can't breathe your death. Right? So, like, it's like it is your body's number one job to breathe. So if your body is using all of your energy in that bucket.

Yeah.

Everything else is going to kind of fall to the wayside and we are going to see symptoms. I mean, like, I recently had a kid that I was co. Treating with a PT with. He had really poor, like, body awareness. And I finally got him to the right ent. But like, I'm like, he mouth breathing, like there's something airway going on. Right? And they started treating him with flonase and we had this huge improvement in his breathing. And then the PT was like, his body awareness is so much better. And I was like, like, yeah, total sense. Yes. I was like, it's so cool just to see the, you know, the whole body.

And like you said with your little one with the tension after feeding and the PT immediately going like, holy co.

Hold up.

Like, we had this baby that we just worked on and relaxed. Like, she went to breath. You should have been fine when you took her back off and she's like, way tensed up again. We see this with, with these infants when they're feeding where they have these clenched fists and their bodies are just holding up to their ears. Yeah. They're using all their energy to try and feed. And it's like we're now like, as soon as every single part tenses up, like, just think of that as another bucket of energy that they are losing that they don't have to put into feeding, but they're also trying to stabilize and support themselves in those feedback feeds. And I think a lot of it comes back to airway. I think so much of the time, it's, that sucks. Follow, breathe. They're not able to establish a good rhythm. They are really struggling from an airway standpoint. And most people are not looking at airway. They're just looking at latch. They're looking at, you know, yes, we're looking in the mouth, which we should be, hopefully. I know not everybody does that, but looking to see if there are oral ties and restrictions, you know, but airway.

What about the airway? The airway with the babies? I think really frequently. I don't know about your practice, but in my practice, my primary office is inside of a dental practice. So my release provider, I rent space here so that we can collaborate. And she's so amazing about when people come to her first. She's like, no, no, no, you got to go get this functional assessment with Kayla. Way too often these babies are coming in, and I think it's just like the tongue tie thing has gotten. The word has gotten out.

Right.

So everyone thinks it's that.

Get this release and we'll be fine.

Yeah. And then they come in, and I'm like, you have, like, a lot of laryngomalacia type symptoms. Like. Like, I'm like, I need to. I keep saying it, but I'm like, I have to go look this up. Like, after we're done, I need to go look this up. Or maybe, you know, But I'm like, I don't know what the actual, like, incidence and prevalence of laryngomalacia actually is, but it feels very common to me because I am, like, having these kids land in my office, and I'm like, that is a lot of strider. And you are struggling to breathe, and your breathing rates are, like, just a little elevated. And I'm just watching these kids struggle to coordinate their breathing. And then I'm starting to ask questions like, okay, is it that? Because, you know, I don't. I don't actually know it's that, um, but there's something airway going on. I'm like, are these kids being born with large adenoids? Is it the high arched palate that is impacting their nasal cavity? Like, what is it exactly? And I have to like, dig through all of that, but I can spot a mile away, like, oh, we are having an airway issue. We are having an issue coordinating our breathing right now. Yes, we are restricted and there's range of motion issues, but like the airway.

Yes, I just pulled it up. Such a laryngeal Malaysia. I'm like, I don't know this off the top of my head. It's the most common laryngeal anomaly in infants. So the incidence is. They say the incidence in the general population is unknown, but in children it's estimated to be around 1 in 2100-2600. So I mean, that's pretty common. When you think it's not like one in a million, it's not like rare.

Right?

Yeah, well, and I 100 children, I'd.

Have questions about, like, it probably goes undiagnosed a lot because, yeah, they're not coming, they're not coming in like, oh, my kid. Like, it's so severe that they're aspirating. Right? Or like, yeah, anything like that. It's just kind of like Phoenix kind of hard. And so most of the time they haven't asked the doctor or been to the doctor or even noticed these things. So I think, I think a lot of times it's present, maybe it's very, very mild and we just aren't catching it or like, no one's saying anything about it because most of the time anyway, when I send them, I think check it out to be ruled out.

If we have any type of noisy breathing. And I know that most infants might have noisy breathing in the first like week or two of life as they're still clearing stuff from, you know, birth. And that's fine. But beyond like two weeks of life, have you got a baby who's got noisy breathing? Like, you need to be going to an ent. That should be a first stop, you know.

And I stand, I stand pretty hard on it too. And I honestly always kind of talk it through with the parents. I said, I cannot confirm or rule out that this is going on unless you go to an ENT and they scope and they look because none of us have X ray vision. It could help guide our care. Like, but some parents are like, I don't really want to go get them scoped if.

I mean, also it comes down to like, do you want to be in therapy for the next six months and maybe not get very far because we really don't have a lot of information here. Or do we want to get this information and which is going to change the course of our treatment plan. And we're going to have a better understanding of how to work with your child.

Child. Right.

Because there might be other things that are necessary that we need to put in place to treat this baby. Right. So.

Yep. I just. I'm always like, I need whole picture. I need. I know it feels like I'm sending you for a lot of referrals because, like, gi the same thing. If I have a really extreme case of g, you know, I'm like, I really need you to go get these things rolled out before we move forward. I want to make sure we can make good progress. I want to have the whole picture, you know, like you just said. But I do see it, I think, really frequently on the airway.

I think it's also like, tongue tied.

Right.

Like, these kids end up coming to us because they're having a problem. So, like, we also probably see it more frequently than, you know, maybe another speech pathologist who works with communication might see these kinds of things. And so I think, like, putting it in perspective, like, why are they coming to us? Well, there's a functional impact, right? Like, they're coming to. Usually. Sometimes parents come and they're like, I think there's a tongue tie, but there's not really anything going on. Can you just check and rule it out for me? And I'm like, you know that that's more rare than common. It's usually like, oh, no, we're struggling feed. We have like, this and this and this going on. And they don't even put together. They don't even know to put together that sleep is connected to all of this. And the airway is a big thing that we look at. So I know that you have a big vision to help parents. Will you tell us a little bit about, you know, what you're doing from an education, empowerment and advocacy standpoint? Because I know you've got your. You've got something coming out for parents.

Yeah, I got some things going on. Yeah. I'm. I'm very passionate about advocating and educating and empowering parents. Like, if there's nothing else, I learned through my own experience and then as like an early intervention provider, it's like, if a parent gets it, if they have the information, it is the most powerful tool. My parents who get it, who do good carryover, who follow my Recommendations who just fully understand those kids make crazy fast progress. And so in general, so I just rolled out. It's like still all in the process, but we're talking about it. Getting ready for lunch. Functional Feeding Academy. So it is designed specifically to educate parents on feeding, feeding development, common feeding problems. The first course is going to be about tongue tie. But the whole reason behind it is I just feel so strongly that we are just doing a really poor job at getting this information in the hands of parents. And then I think the social media and the baby goods market, like it's just putting a whole level of extra on all of that. And parents are overwhelmed and they want the information. They don't know who to listen to and it's all just very confusing to them. And I just, through my work, I've had so many instances where I've had people say to me, like, if it's their second baby, maybe they're just like, if I would have known any of this with my first child, things would have gone so differently.

That's me and I'm where were you six years ago when I really needed you?

Same. That's what my dentist in here, she's always like, okay, I could have used you like four years ago, but whatever. Yeah, it's just like. And when it's, there's a baby that comes after I've seen a kid, maybe they'll be like, oh my gosh, things were so different this time around. Like when we introduced solids just from like the information that you gave me about Kiddo number one. Right. And so my brain started going like most of the information I share on a day to day basis would benefit all children, all of them, and all parents. And they want the information. And when I give it to people, they are so grateful. They've been looking for it. I clarify things for them. And so I just got to a point where I was like, well, why not? Why isn't this information available and how can I provide it to them? And then on top of that, I think I see this gap. We have prenatal breastfeeding education. There's very little bottle feeding information. And it's like, okay, well we have to move away from this idea. I made this post the other day about what bottle is best for my breastfeeding baby. Well, and then I'm like, xing out breastfeeding. We have got to move away from this idea that bottle feeding a baby is different than breastfeeding a baby. I mean there are differences, but we should be taking the same Exact approach, a proper latch does matter. The utensil and bottle nipple we put into our child's mouth does matter. And for the most part, if I can get a parent to know that they're going to do it, if I can just get this information in the hands of parents, I think an impact could be made here in the sense of preventing problems down the road or getting early intervention. Knowing when there's a problem, knowing. Knowing when to ask for help. You know, this isn't going to be like DIY therapy at home through my online course. Right. Like, there are just a whole host of things that I want parents to know just in general, and then be like, well, if you see these things, know when to ask for help. Yeah. And here's who you can see. And so I think I just come from a place where, like, I had all of the information, I had training, and it was just so stressful, it was so lonely. I didn't know where to go to ask for help. And I just, like, I never want a mom feeling like that. Like, I just don't.

Or you do ask for help. You go to the lactation, they turn you away and say, you're holding her wrong. And I was like, yep, it's all my fault. Okay.

Like, you gotta just shove her on there. And I'm like, okay, that's gonna strip.

Her down naked, blow on her face, throw water at her, like. And I was like, no, I was like, I will strip her down naked. I'm not gonna blow on her face and throw water at her. But thank you for that suggestion.

Oh, my gosh.

That is where I draw the line.

Yeah. It's so hard out there. It's so hard. And it's like, I just wanna help them. Like, that's all it is. I want to. And, like, for them to know that, like, they're doing a good job. Like, it is so hard to feed your kid. And I don't know if I could ever describe to anyone unless you've been through it, like, the consumption of having a baby or a young child who's not feeding well. You feed them so many times a day, and every single time when it goes poorly, there's this piece of just, like, feeling like you're failing. And it is just, like, all consuming and lonely. And I just want to provide support across the board to people. Because, of course, if you're a mom.

Who has to plan your outings around where you can find a nursing station to breastfeed your baby for 45 minutes and then Put them in the, you know, put them in their car seat, in their stroller to hope they fall asleep so you can walk around and like get out into normal society.

Yeah.

This is for you.

Yeah, for sure. Well, and then even like the bottle feeding piece, I'm like, I think people are so afraid to like educate on it because they think they're like not protecting breastfeeding. But I'm like giving breasts or given bottle feeding information does protect breastfeeding because there are things that can go wrong and then it kind of spirals. Right. And so it's like. And the reality of the situation is most of us go back to work or need to go to school, take.

A bottle at some point, have to take a bottle.

And so it's like feeding is feeding. Like we have got to stop compartmentalizing everything and be like, this is feeding as a whole. Right. So that's a little piece of the vision too. I'm kind of tired of the line, go here for breastfeeding support, Go here for bottle feeding. Right. It's kind of like you're doing baby led weaning. Like we go here for feeding support.

And then once you're fully educated, you as a parent, once you've been empowered with information, can decide what makes sense for you.

Right. You can balance it. All. Right. Right.

I mean, I had Lily who was breastfeeding and would barely take anything from a bottle. She would drink from a bottle with me. But also that took forever. And it was a Dr. Brown's and we never really moved beyond like the preemie nipple, I think, like she couldn't handle a level one nipple. It was like we kept trying. Would not take a bottle from my nanny who was only with her six hours a day. Six hours a day, twice a week. That was all I treated. I would. And I was driving to my patients, you know, I wasn't seeing many patients when I went back to work when she was five months old. But I was like, I kind of wanted to get back out there and start treating again. So it was like this happy medium of, you know what? Like she's, let's see if we can get her to take one. Okay. She's not really taking it, so I'll come home and feed her right away.

Yep.

You know, and it was just, it was this weird balance that I had to kind of create in our own situation. And it worked. But I know not everybody has that flexibility. And so what do you do when you have a child who won't take a bottle and where are the resources? Where help. And, you know, we tried to give her a bottle before I went back. We were trying to give her a bottle way early on. And it was just. It was a mess. It was a mess. And there were no resources for me, even a feeding SLP mom who, again, like, I was working more with the one plus crowd. So for a lot of these kids, we. They were already. They were already introduced to solids. I wasn't their first introduction. Now, some kids were because of certain, you know, certain medical complexities and things, but that was not my specialty. Introduction to solids, bottle feeding, identifying ties. None of this was in my repertoire. Like, I was dealing with the picky kids who had, you know, and selective kids and the kids where I. And I was looking at it honestly from more of a sensory approach at times than I was like a motor approach. And, you know, then I became more into the. Got more into the motor space. And I had always learned, like Lori Overland. That was one of my first courses, Sensory Motor. And it stuck with. Has stuck with me from life. She's always said, you cannot separate the sensory from the motor. We can teach it that way, but that's not how the body actually functions and operates. We can't, you know. And so I've come to look at it as. We can't treat in silos. We can't discuss things in silos even, because we're really downplaying all the other. The impact of the rest of the body and the symptoms in the systems. When we try to talk about just the oral motor. Now it's the sensory oral motor. Because every. You know. Anyways, I know I'm preaching to the choir.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's just, you know, it was one of those things where she threw me deep into the whole infant population. And then I was like, I don't like you. I don't want any other mother to go through what I went through and to feel gaslit because I didn't realize that that's what was happening to me at the time. But looking back on it, I was totally gaslit into like, oh, you're a new mom. It's going to hurt for a while. Oh, you're. I mean, everything was downplayed. How about instead of gaslighting our parents, we say, I am so sorry that you're experiencing these symptoms. Let's figure out together why this is happening. And if you don't know why, figure out who can help. If it's not you put that ego aside and refer them to somebody who can help because it's just I'm like.

Yeah, in the early intervention piece of it. So in my world where I'm like 0 to 5, it's so funny, I'll have a 4 month old baby in front of me. I mean like, well, with an older baby. And I'm like so ridiculous because I see them so early on now. But, but you know those older kids that I get, I don't think ever, ever, ever. I have had a case where I have met a slightly older child who is struggling with one of these things that we've talked about today where I cannot trace it back to their infancy, to their newborn life. And so it's like if we can just get doctors and like, you know, in my case, like I'm saying, like if parents know this, if they know what's going on, they can go and demand. They're going to go and demand and they're going to advocate for themselves and they're going to feel confident advocating for themselves. Like that's my whole goal, right? I want you to feel like you have the information, you can walk into your doctor's office and kind of like demand, yes, whatever referral you need because you are confident because you have the information, you know you need to, you can trust your gut, but we're going to back you up with like the actual information. I love that because, because that is where the power happens. And I feel the same way. The reason I chose to have my first course that's going to be launching about tongue ties, tethered tissues is because I think while we're doing a very good job, some of us at like educating that it's a team approach and there's a lot of collaboration that is going on. I think since we're still all figuring it out within our professional realms, I think sometimes the parent as like, you know, like I say, like there are four pillars, right? Like you have your functional provider, you have your body worker, you have your release provider, but then you have the parent. And like the parent is the one who needs to do the carryover therapy. The parent is the one who's doing.

The majority of the work, wound care.

And the parent really needs to understand big picture of all of the symptoms that they're experiencing. What maybe depending on the age, like what symptoms in the past were related, what symptoms could pop up in the future, you know, what are we seeing whole picture and then they need to be like at the forefront of the decision of like, how are we going to treat this? How comfortable are you with surgery. Do you want to go that route?

Do.

Do you want to be a little bit more conservative? Like, they need to be the most important team member. And in order to do that, they have to have the information.

Yeah.

You know, like, I just want them to have access to like that baseline information so that they are not doing what I did, which was like all over Google trying to just like collect all the information that I could. Or God for Dr. Google or God forbid, the tongue tie support groups on Facebook that I have to like, silence.

Yeah. I don't go in.

Yeah. Like, all of the misinformation I'm seeing and I'm like having a panic attack because these moms are hearing all.

It causes a lot of anxiety.

I don't. There's. The information is just like all over the place. So I just really want. It's. Again, it's not like, here's how you treat. You can treat them at home. Like, no, you are still going to have to get these. This team on board. But like, you. You have to have a basic. You're gonna be armed with information. Information to demand the referrals that you need. You're going to be armed with information to build that team. Who are you looking for? Right, because you could see an ibclc, but if that IBCLC doesn't have the correct training, that might not be enough. You could go see an slp, but like, if that SLP doesn't have any training in this, that. That might not be enough either. And so there's so many variables.

Yeah.

And it's hard for. I know it's hard for us. Right? So, like, I can't even imagine how the parents feel when they're just like, well, I don't know where to go. I don't know what to do. This is what my pediatrician said.

Like, well, we trust our pediatricians, but they are unfortunately generalists and they are not specialized in these areas. And they're. I know they mean well, but they're actually causing harm. And I say that. I know that that's not maybe making me super popular in certain circles, but it's the reality. And I just heard the other day, I don't remember who was telling this story. It must have been while I was at the Dental Festival. They were saying that they went to an ent. The ENT turned them away. They went back to the ent. The ENT turned them away again. The third time they went back and the mom stood there and demanded, like, you are going to scope My child, because I am here for you to rule out enlarged adenoids. And I know you said that the tonsils look okay, but we have not been able to visualize the adenoids. How do you know? And I need you to eliminate, you know, or I need you to rule out upper airway resistance. And look at, you know, and like, the parent was like, I'm not leaving your office until you scope my child. And when you have parents coming in like that, saying this to a provider, like, obviously, we don't want to cause, like, issues, but if this parent has been advised by other professionals that we need to rule this out, why are these other professionals being so dismissive? Like, is your ego that big that you cannot scope a child when a parent is saying, hey, I have great concerns about this. Here's the laundry list of issues going on. Here are the providers that have referred me to you who have completed reports and who basically had said, we have concerns about X, Y and Z. Like, you, you don't have X ray vision either. Like you said, these entities don't have X ray vision unless you put the X ray on. Like, come on. Like, why are we.

Why are we here?

Why are we still fighting so hard to get our kids care when airway is the most important thing? Why are ents who are supposed to be specialized in airway not looking at the airway? I mean, this seems like the ABCs of becoming an ENT. I don't know. I'm sure I'm going to create. Like, a lot of people are going.

To be like, who does she think she is? No, I get it. Because I am new. I mean, like I said, it has taken me years to be like, okay, I have one or two ents that I feel comfortable sending you to. I recently just found this, like, amazing GI doctor who was, like, super supportive of, like, the treatment we were doing for this baby's tongue tie and was just kind of like, everything else looks good if that treatment, you know, like, we're still having symptoms. After you guys are finished, come back and see me. We'll do a little bit more digging. But he was just super supportive and, like, understanding that that could be causing this. But I don't know. When I have conversations with pediatricians and, like, with parents, I'm always like, it's not. I don't have a problem with them not knowing.

Right.

But don't dismiss it. But don't dismiss it. I. You don't. In what I say to them. I'm like, you don't need to Learn it. You don't need to know how to diagnose it. You don't need to release it in your office. I. All I'm asking you to do is if you see any of these symptoms, you need to refer them to me so that we can dig into why it's happening. Literally, you just need to know when to make the referral, which is a big part of your job as a pediatrician. So I'm always talking this through with parents, too, that it's like. So it's not that you have a bad pediatrician if they don't know how to diagnose a tongue tie, but if they're gaslighting you and making you feel like what you're experiencing is normal and you're not feeling heard, that might be reason to go find someone else. Like my. My third, you know, my third pediatrician that I finally found who was like, oh, yes, this does look like a food intolerance, a food allergy. When I came to her and said, I'm going to go take Audrey to have her tongue tie released. And she was like, well, why? And I was like, well, I think it's contributing to her reflux, and I think it's contributing to the tension in her body. And she was like, tongue ties do not cause reflux. And I was like, well, they do cause you to swallow air. Went through the whole thing with her.

Right.

Like, I came armed with, like, research and stuff. She didn't even ask for it. But at the end of the appointment, she said, I hear you and I hear your concern, and if this is what you feel like is the right thing to do, I support you. And that is when I knew. I'm like, we are here to stay. Right?

Yeah.

She didn't know she disagreed with me.

You don't have to agree, but at least respect me.

And then she support me. I support what you are doing, and, like, that is what you need to look for in a doctor.

Right?

Like, they don't have to know everything and they won't, and everybody's gonna have. You know, there's probably plenty of things that I don't know. Other areas of speech. If someone asked me about it, I might tell them something wrong. Like, right. It. It is what it is. But I just. I won't tolerate the gaslighting and I won't tolerate a parent feeling like they need to ask their pediatrician's permission to do something or being dismissed. Like I always say, our pediatricians seconds.

The ENT said, you know, and I'm Like.

And then I'm like, well, what do you think? What do you think? And most of the time they'll be like, I don't really know. I don't really know that I agree with them. And I'm like, okay, so now I just, you know, I've just, like, stacked the deck. Like, I'm like, no, you're gonna go see this, this cnt and you're gonna go see this GI specialist. And that has helped, but I know that all of us don't have access to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think again, the more we arm parents with the right information and questions, like, through your course, we are a platform which will be amazing the more it starts to open those conversations. And so maybe this is not the provider who's going to release the tongue, but maybe this provider is at least open and willing to hear that you have that concern and look for other things that may be going on too. And, you know, that's how the medical system should work. Like you said, the parent is a pillar of the team. And I've always said parents are as equally as important as every one of us. And sometimes they have more knowledge through their research than some of these specialists do because the specialists are so far down the rabbit hole in one area. And it's not everybody's job to know everything. We are not supposed to be generalists, Right? But that's why I think when a parent brings something to the table, we should not immediately roll our eyes and go, oh, here comes another parent who thinks they know everything. Well, maybe they do. It's their child. Maybe their experience is worth listening to. Not maybe it is. Right? I mean, it's. We need to listen to what they're telling us and read between the lines. We need to, as providers, figure out, if we're not the right provider for them, who can we refer them to that can help them? Right. I mean, I just think, you know, we could obviously talk about this in circles all day long, but forever correct?

Yeah, but it's like at the end of the day, the medical system is failing.

These parents, they are.

And the whole point here, you know, that I'm trying to drive across is like, if. If we can just validate, like, as a parent, when you feel like you're not really sure, and then someone with a medical degree is, like, telling you the opposite, like, feels really scary. And so it's like, I just want to validate what they're seeing and what they're feeling. And you are right. And, you know, your Child better than anyone else. And if you think something is not right that wins over anything for me.

Pursue it in my office. Pursue it and push it till you get answers.

That wins. Like, even if I can't fully see something right in front of me and a parent is like, something is off. I am like. Or they'll be like, you know, it's the thing you say about like taking your car to the shop.

Right.

Like they always behave wonderfully in front of me. And I'm like, I believe you. Like, I believe you. If you are telling me that something is not right, send me a video later. You are mom. You are dad. You win. Like, I believe you. So yeah, I just, I want to be a part of advocating and empowering and like that's my whole goal and my whole vision because I just, I have been there and it is exhausting and scary and I don't want anyone else feeling that way. But I also think that it could make a big impact if, if they just, the parents have the knowledge of the. We can get the, the weird bottles and the weird pacifiers and the weird sippy cups and, and like where will we be when all of these kids are 10? If we can kind of change the mindset and get the help earlier and all of that.

So I love it. I love it. I love your mission. I think that your vision is large and fabulous and grander than all of us combined, which is amazing. So thank you for doing what you're doing. I think this is wonderful. And I know that they can go to your website. So can you share where they can find your course?

Yeah. So if they go to my website, which is ABE Speech and Feeding.com and ABE is a B E I L L E. That's always a tricky one for everyone. But I'm sure you will link it for them.

Yes, we will put it in the show notes. They'll have access to it.

So right now, since, you know, I haven't, I haven't launched them yet. But if you go to the course tab, there is a tongue tie and oral dysfunction symptom tracker there. So I use that a lot with my parents to just be like, we're going to check mark all of these and you're going to look at it like as whole picture as like something that you can arm yourself with when you go to your appointment. Like we are experiencing all of these things because sometimes we like when we're stressed, we kind of talk in circles. So I like them to have like a big picture of it. But then it'll also put you on the, unlike the wait list to be notified when the course launches, which I'm hoping will be in the next six to eight weeks. But I'm kind of trying to see about, like, holidays and stuff. So it might, I might push it off to like the very beginning of the year just to avoid all the chaos.

Well, it's coming soon, so that's exciting.

It's coming soon. And you can get on the email list so that you know when it happens. And then I also, you know, obviously just share a lot of information on Instagram, so it's underscore SLP on Instagram as well.

Awesome. Yay. Well, thank you so much. This has been so much fun chatting.

Yeah, it has been. I think we could talk all day. But we won't.

We certainly could. Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you want to hear more of these Myo Tots, Airway and Feeding related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or pledge a small amount on patreon.com forward/the untethered podcast. If you found value, others you know in this space will too. So be sure to share this episode on your social media platforms and join us over on Facebook on my Facebook page @hallebulckenbiz, on Instagram @hallebulcken. And you can head over to theuntetheredpodcast.com to grab a copy of the Show Notes, where you can also subscribe to be kept up to date on the latest podcast episodes.