Episode 140: REMastered Sleep: Fighting Snoring One Water Bottle At A Time with Anders Olmanson

Hi and welcome to episode 140 of the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Anders Allmanson joining us. Anders is the CEO of Remastered Sleep and he's a passionate medical innovator who aspires to make being healthy easy. During his four years as a mechanical engineer at Medtronic, Anders earned his Ms. In Medical Device Innovation from the University of Minnesota. Anders also spent nine months studying health systems throughout Asia and Africa in order to learn novel approaches to healthcare innovation around the world. I'm also going to put a little plug in for Abby on their team, who has done an incredible job of creating the illustrations and their website@remastered sleep.com quick disclaimer. All information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Hallie Balkan. I'm a certified orofacial myologist, feeding specialist, and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, tethered oral tissue and airway space. I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to get this information out to the masses. Let's get started. Well, Anders, I want to welcome you to the podcast this morning. I'm excited to chat.

Yeah, thanks for having me. We're glad to be here.

So tell us. You know, we've got this. If anybody's watching on YouTube, they'll be able to see this, this beautiful water bottle that I'm holding. But tell me a bit about how you came up with the concept for a myofunctional therapy water bottle.

Yeah, so my background's in biomedical engineering and I used to work at Medtronic and then I also did a Master's of Science in medical device innovation and then traveled the world studying healthcare for nine months. And it was when I was doing my master's program. You know, we're going to these different, like, sleep clinics doing clinical immersion. We see this obstructive sleep apnea patient, severe obstructive sleep apnea patient, you know, just outright refused CPAP therapy.

Yeah.

So for us, you know, and that's the gold standard. There's all, all these health risks associated with obstructive sleep apnea. So we're sitting there like, oh man, like this person won't even try a cpap not even, like he won't even use it. Like he won't even try it. So it's really eye opening, you know, for us. And then you start digging into it. There's, you know, 80% of cases are undiagnosed of the people that are diagnosed. There's the 20 to 50% outright CPAP refusal rate. And then you have a 50 to 60% compliance rate of CPAPs. So people aren't being diagnosed and they're not being treated. So that's what got, like me passionate about the sleep space. And so we're looking into these alternative solutions and we're going looking at all these studies. We came across this didgeridoo study where. And this is coming out of the, you know, like in Switzerland. So like we're playing the didgeridoo for, I think it was like 20, 30 minutes a day for four months. You know, dropped obstructive sleep apnea from moderate to mild on average. And then it also helped with snoring. So we're sitting there like, wow, this is. This is amazing, you know, and wild, you know, this is very different than what we're used to. So then we're like, okay. So then we started digging into it more. We started seeing the studies coming out of the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil. So those showed, you know, doing targeted exercises, you know, and that in that case, I think it was like 15 back in like 2000 and like 7 or 8 that they showed even greater reductions than the didgeridoo playing. And we're like, okay, there's something here. And then they simplified down to six. So we started talking with people like, hey, there's these exercises that can help your snoring and obstructive sleep apnea. You know, what do you think? And some people are like, yeah, this is awesome. But then a lot of other people like, yeah, I don't know, that's a lot of work. So we're like, okay, how do we make it? So it seems like this therapy has the efficacy, you know, for what we were looking for. But how do we actually get people to do it? So we're sitting there brainstorming, like, coming up with these different ideas. And it was actually at my parents place, I was watching their dog eat peanut butter out of a peanut butter kong. So you. And you can see the tongue motion. You know, it's doing this tongue exercise and not even realizing it and enjoying it too. So it's like, oh, okay. And I was like, what do people do every day? You Know, they drink water out of a water bottle and that was like the big light bulb moment.

So I love how you made that connection between the dog Peanut butter Kong. I mean my dog has one of those too. And like I know exactly what you're talking about.

Yep. So yeah, we, we decided to make a water bottle not a, not an adult peanut butter Kong.

But maybe there's some room for future. Get an adult to do. Right. But it is so interesting because one of the things that you mentioned, aside from just not having enough diagnosis or there's under diagnosis, I should say to when you are prescribed a cpap, you know, the amount of patients who either decline even having that conversation or filling the script versus those who do fill it, take it home and then it sits next to their bed and they don't actually use it. I mean it's obviously very low compliance. And I have a family member who uses a cpap and so I'm, I'm familiar with what it looks like and how it might sound. And I mean it's to give this to let's say a 25 year old. Right. And tell them they have to wear this for the rest of their life. Like it's absurd. Right. Obviously, if it's necessary to stay alive right now while you sleep, fine. But the goal should ultimately be like, let's wean off of this at some point. Let's have some like long term game plan here so that you're not expected to be on this appliance or this device for the rest of your life.

Yeah. And most people, yeah, they don't want to. They definitely, if they have the option to get like that, they would take that in a heartbeat. You know, nobody but cfap, you know, gold standard does work really well. So for the people that use it, you know, it's awesome. But yeah, there's got to be other things out there that you can do for sure.

So let's talk about the key benefits of the, of the water bottle. Because I know what we focus on. You know, in Mayo, obviously our big goals are we say, you know, lips to get tongue up, lips together, teeth apart, through your nose. Basically is. And I always say it in a much cuter way when I'm talking to patients. But so I know obviously our lips are going to be around this and our tongue. The idea is to get the tongue up. You know, what do you guys, from a functional standpoint, like what is your ultimate goal with the water bottle?

Yeah. So there's kind of, there's like three. Three Main goals. One is the tongue up. Like, that's a. That's a huge one. Um, and for us, like, I don't know if you've noticed it, but we've had other people who struggle with tongue up positioning. Like, it gets your tongue up on the roof of the mouth, like, really quickly. Yeah, naturally. Yeah, just. It makes it just suck, you know, just want to go right up there. So. And that's. That's. Cause part of it is when you drink out of. You're doing the tongue. Caveat. Like, so you're doing that myofunctional therapy exercise. We're creating suction with your tongue. You're using that suction to draw the water out. So you, you know, the back of your tongue, you know, your whole tongue's up on the roof of your mouth as you're drinking, and then, you know, you swallow. So it's kind of like you're just doing these little, you know, tongue push ups with the back of your throat with your tongue in the correct oral positioning. So it gets people to get their tongue up and then nasal breathing. So it takes a little bit of time to get the water out. So while you're doing that, you know, you should be able to be, you know, have control over your mouth and be nasal breathing, you know, at the same time. Obviously, don't swallow when you're, you know.

Nasal breathing past infancy. We can't really do that. Right. But. But no, I love that. And it was. It was interesting. So there were two things that I noticed when I first tried it out, right. You sent this to me, like, months ago, and I finally was like, hey, we got to get on and podcast about this. But when I first used it, I was like, all right, I'm a myo provider, right? And you know, when I started to trial the water bottle, I was like, holy cow. My muscles. Like, like throughout my entire. The lower half of my. I could feel everything activating. And I all of a sudden was like, okay, that's. I'm tired. Like, tired. It's really a workout for your face.

So that's. That's the second goal. So part of it, you know, we're trying to work out because for us, you know, we're trying to exercise these muscles to tighten them up. So that's like the second goal, you know, like one you're activating your genealysis. That's like a major airway dilator, hopefully coordinating. You know, we're. There's still, like, what. We're still learning everything. You Know, like malfunctional therapy and all this actually does, like, we know it helps but also like the reasoning is why. But yeah, you're exercising all these muscles and they're, you know, some muscles are ones that you're not used to, like working out per se. So it's kind of, you know, a workout for the back of your throat, your soft palate. And then you're definitely the big one is like the genioglossus as well.

I think it's interesting too because I know some of our patients that we work with will sometimes really struggle to get the back of their tongue up, especially if they're posteriorly tied, if they have a tongue tie that's more posterior. And I was that patient and I think I might actually need a little bit more of a release. And I think that's why I still also feel, feel even after like using it some, I still feel like extra work through the back of my, you know, my, the muscles that support my jaw. Anyways, so it's, it was very interesting though, just as a user, I was like, huh, this is really fascinating. And you know, when I compared it to straw drinking, because we work on that as well in myofunctional therapy. We have a lot of patients who we always, during our assessments look to see what does the tongue do when they put a spoon or a straw into their mouth. And oftentimes a lot of our patients will bring their tongue forward and either to their lips, beyond their lips, just like to like we always say it's like greeting the. Like the tongue's coming to greet the straw or greet the spoon. And I noticed with this that I couldn't drink from it doing that. Like I tried so many different ways, like, oh, like I actually sucked in a ton of air instead of actually pulling water out initially, which is like, whoa. Well, that doesn't feel right. So it was almost like self correcting. And then I was like having to pull my tongue back. And of course this is me as a therapist who's just trying to see like what might my patients do and what can I like, you know, if they do that, they're going to swallow air and then they're going to complain to me that, you know, stomach ache or indigestion or something. So I do think, you know, it's fascinating because it's long, the straw is long and it's kind of flat. So it gives you, and it's very easily, you know, moldable. So it gives you the opportunity to really kind of fit it into whatever, honestly, whatever shape, palate you might have. Which I thought was kind of cool because we have have people presenting with different, you know, high narrow palates, V shaped, U shaped, all of the above. So yeah, it was, it's pretty cool. I did feel like some of my patients would need a little instruction, you know, though to make sure that they're using it properly. So like how do you guys go about educating, I guess, you know, on the proper use of the bottle?

Yeah, so we have our, the instructions that come with it. That's kind of like the main thing that you know, comes with the product physical form where you know, it's pretty good visuals and the description. We've worked a lot on that. We've actually just come out with instructional video that we're going to, we're actually going to start sending out pretty soon. But that kind of goes to actually like showing how to use it because some people, you know, it's better to see like someone using it walking through it versus just like on a paper form. Those are kind of like the, the two ways. And you can already mention like we designed the product. It makes, if you try to use it incorrectly, for the most part it's going to not allow you to get water. So it kind of like punishes you in a way, you know, like you have to use it correctly but there, you know, you can use it incorrectly and that's where like doing the instruction. But that's like maybe a very small percentage of people, you know, can use incorrectly. But you just got to look at the instructions. So we tried to design it so it's foolproof but you know, it couldn't.

Couldn'T do everything or error that you know, you can't really always account for. And that's just human nature. Right. But website, I mean, so people will put this in the show notes so everyone can, you know, visit the website. But remastered sleep.com I mean under the how it works tab, you guys have beautiful images. So if you're someone who's like got the water bottle and you throw out that insert and you're like, ah, how do I use this? The instructions right on the website. And I love your images. The website's so beautifully done. I have to just, you know, add that little plug in there. It's very like informational but it's in a way that I think is very easy to digest. Especially for people who are not necessarily like me, they're not necessarily therapists in this space. Right. Like you're maybe you want to target us so that we can recommend it to our patients. But really, you guys are wanting to recommend it directly, like, from you all to the consumer. And so I think you guys have done a really awesome job just explaining the importance of breathing through your nose and the tongue living on the roof of the mouth. And, you know, also incorporating myofunctional therapy, which I always love. So thank you for that.

Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you told us a little bit about the story behind invention. How I'm curious to know, like, from concept to inception, like, how long did that take you to actually go from like, hey, I have this idea because I saw my dog in eating peanut butter out of the Kong. And I think that adults can really benefit from this too. To actually having, like, a prototype.

Yeah. So from, like, inception. So because there's like the research before, like, you know, the actual idea and that, that was like, I don't know, probably so 2017, about 2019. Some of that was like, part time, and then some of it was full time. So it's probably about a couple of years of research before getting to, like, that idea. Cause we were actually breaking down all the exercises and figuring out, like, what muscles were activating and what we thought was happening based on, like, the pathophysiology and physiology. Then from the actual, like, inception of the idea is probably about, I don't know, maybe half a year or so of just like, prototyping. Maybe a little more than that. Maybe maybe nine months of different, like, testing different things out. Then we did usability study with 37 snores. We did that in the summer of 2020. And we got really good results. So that kind of. That made us like, okay. Then we did another usability study after that to test the instructions. So we were like, you know, making sure we could dial in our instructions. And then we launched it in December 2020. So it's probably about a little over a year from, like, inception to launching it. And that's with, like, testing it with people and prototyping and getting feedback from. Because we were working with speech therapists and myofunctional therapists, like, getting their feedback as we're making it. Yeah. So I know pretty quick, but not, I don't know, but not like, super quick, I guess.

Well, in the, you know, like, shark tank, but like, in the. In the world of like, you know, actually bringing to something, like bringing a concept to market, you guys moved relatively quickly compared to what I've seen other companies do. But I'm also Not an expert in that space, so. Yeah, but you do have. I saw that you had sent me the. Let's see, the novel myofunctional therapy water bottle to reduce snoring and obstructive sleep apnea, which was the. You got your abstract and the entire article here available on your website. So that's great because people can read about that if they're interested. And this was published, is that right?

Yeah. So this published as part of like a conference. So it wasn't like peer reviewed. This is kind of like our initial studies.

Mm.

We're actually going to be doing more. We've applied for NIH SBIR grants, so we're trying to do some obstructive sleep apnea studies. And we're like, this close to getting funding, so I think we'll get it, you know, so hopefully pretty soon, you know, we'll be doing. Get that funding and do some obstructive sleep apnea. Yeah, like actual controlled studies with, you know, sleep tests and before and after.

Yeah, that's really interesting. I'll be so curious to see one if that gets funded. Hopefully. Cross our fingers for you.

Thank you.

What comes of all of that? That's exciting. That's really. I mean, we always talk about we need more research in this space in general. And there's my dog joining us. We always need more research in this space in general, but to see a product come out that can be beneficial and to have some research behind it. It's one of these interesting conversations because I don't know if you follow anything in the pediatric feeding world, but a lot of our pediatric feeding cases also have airway issues. And, you know, we really promote. Actually had some posts on it this week. We promote open cup drinking because one, it's the closest thing to breastfeeding as far as orofacial, you know, myofunctional goals and just use of the orofacial muscles go. And then we encourage straw cups instead of sippy cups because a sippy cup for like a baby is actually prolonging the use of the bottle. And it's a premature suckling pattern. It's not the same as like, what we're trying to do, like with the water bottle here. And obviously this is for adults, but, you know, it just kind of begs this question of everyone goes, well, you know, there hasn't been any research done on like, on these straw cups and again, sippy cups and the way that you're saying it's harmful. And we're like, well, if you Just use them. You can feel it like you can if you just kind of listen to your body and watch where the muscles are, you know, having to over activate and how your jaw is having to fix and how. Just none of this is natural or helpful. And obviously if we start this early on in life and continue it forward, it's just going to contribute to a myofunctional disorder. Hello. There's a huge divide in my industry over this, by the way. No surprise, I'm sure. And it's just, you know, amongst SLPs, the speech pathologist and occupational therapists. So it's very interesting because people always come back. And the thing that made me think of it as you guys are going through this NIH grant to further look at actual product and people are always like, you can't say that there's no research on sippy cups saying they're dangerous or that they contribute to my disorders. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, most companies are not willing to run research against their products when they're selling them beautifully on the market. Why would they do that? Anyways, so, yeah, so I love that you guys are. You're headed in the research direction. That's cool.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, we've definitely, like, looked at different, like pediatrics, not like that, like doing research on it, but yeah, like some of the stuff that, you know, pediatric, like some bottle nipples aren't that. We're not very impressed. And there's other things that weren't, you know, and when we originally designed our thing, we. We kind of modeled it somewhat a little bit off of like breastfeeding motions, kind of like that natural motion, but then into more of like an adult, you know, adult swallow. So. Yeah, like, definitely. Yep.

Yeah. No, that's cool because it's, you know, like I said, that's the closest thing to open cup drinking. Right. And ultimately that's that swallow that we want. We want to be able to do this no matter what we're drinking out of. Whether we're drinking out of a water fountain or a water bottle or a straw cup or an open cup or whatever we should have. Obviously things are going to change slightly, but we should ultimately have the same general swallow pattern for the liquid once it's in our mouth. Right. And that's where we're finding that there's just certain vessels that don't allow for that. And unfortunately, the infant toddler, you know, vessels available are largely problematic. And it's, you know, it really starts at. It starts young and I think A lot of these kids who take to some of these things more easily that are not super helpful for their oral development tend to be our kids who are already at risk and then, you know, turn into the adults with sleep apnea. And sometimes these kids have sleep apnea too. So it's. It's really interesting to be in this space right now because I know, like, none of this is new, but at the same time, nobody's. I think it's most widely accepted, even though it's still a small, you know, network. I feel like of many of us who really get it and accept it, we all hang out together. It feels like a lot of people are on board. Yeah. But it's just so fascinating. I think it's a fascinating time to be in right now because I'm like, if we can. If we can help adults with where they're at, because everyone else used to say, like, oh, you can't change that. And in adults, you can't widen their palates. You can't change or swallow. You can't do this, you can't do that. And we're over here going, like, of course you can. What do you mean? It's just so limiting to believe that. Anyway, so I've been the patient myself too, which is why I love this because, you know, while I've been in therapy with my own patients, quote unquote, like, doing myo with them all the time, and I do generally have my tongue resting on my palate. I do swallow properly when I'm sleeping. I still have, like, enlarged turbinates that I need to get taken care of soon. And so I think once I adjust my ability to nasal breathe better at night when I'm laying down, then that will hopefully lead to more of a closed mouth posture and, you know, all that fun stuff.

And do nasal breathe well during the.

Day or, you know, I can, right? Like, I can nasal breathe. AM I completely 100% like Peyton? No, I mean, like, I can. You know, it's like I basically have been living my life with what I thought were allergies. And everyone tests me and they go, you're fine. You don't have allergies. And, you know, I moved down to Florida and I'm like, well, people's allergies from, like, the Maryland D.C. metro area tend to lift when they move out of that area. I live there my entire life, so who knows? I moved down here, I'm like, yeah, no, I'm pretty sure. And I've had a cbct, so I'm Like, I know I have enlarged turbinates. I know I have a deviated septum. So it's definitely a procedure that's warranted because I just. I went through vivos DNA for two years, followed by Invisalign for a year, and then kind of live in Mayo. So, you know, it's like, I'm the bodywork with the pt, trained it from the pri, you know, Posture Restoration Institute, like, all the things. And, you know, I. When I look back at it, I go, I probably should have had the procedure done like, mid expansion, because there was a certain point where my maxilla, which is turned. Actually, it's turned inward on one side a little bit, and so my teeth don't sit completely aligned. And at first the PT was like, yeah, you know your dog, Your bite is off on the bottom. And then he looked closer and he's like, wait, no, it's actually your maxilla. Your maxilla is turned in on one side, and it's throwing everything off. And with the vivos DNA appliance that I used, we were able to get some movement, and we were able to get it to start to shift, but it wasn't holding. And I think that was about 50% of the way through about a year into my appliance therapy. And I think at that point we went like, huh, it probably has something to do with my nose gift, right? So. So now that's. That's the next step. And then I. I'll probably end up back into some other oral appliance or something to deal with my maxilla. But it's. It's fascinating because, you know, I know during the day because I'm cognizant, because I think I've just trained myself like that, you know, so well that my tongue is up, my lips are closed, I breathe through my nose, even though it's not the path of least resistance. And then at night, all bets are off.

Yeah, you're like, you're like, in super challenging mode.

Telling you. I'm a person who always says to my patients, well, you don't want to have to think about it during the day. It should just be second nature. I swear. I swear. So has anybody on your team, I mean, you obviously don't have to talk about their medical history, but has anybody, like, been through Mayo or any, like, types of adult expansion or had sleep apnea or anything? Like, are there personal stories behind this as well?

Yeah, so. So my business partner Gunner and I won't, like, go into, like, too much of this stuff. But he was kind of like a renowned snorer back in the day, you know? And so for him, and we were on a trip together, this was, like, before we knew about all the myo stuff. And, you know, he's like, oh, like, India's making a joke, but he's like, yeah, do you guys know what you're supposed to do with your tongue? You know, and he's just making a joke or whatever. He's like, yeah, it just kind of floats around, you know, or whatever. And so then, you know, we started doing this, and then, you know, a couple years later, we started doing this company, and we're doing the prototypes and testing different things. So he was testing it out, and for him, like, it really helped his tongue posture. And he is snoring, like, really reduced. Like, he was kind of the. The guinea pig, I guess.

Yeah.

Or, like, my cousin would, you know, he's like a family friend and stuff. So my cousin was, like, hanging out with them, and, you know, after a night of drinking, I guess, you know, he's like, oh, I didn't even really notice, like, Gunner's snoring, you know, so it's kind of. So it's like a huge change for him. But part of it, you know, was definitely, like, the oral posture. And now that we've gotten more into it, like, you know, kind of an understanding of what are some of the things that affects, you know, him personally. Like, me, I don't know if I snore or not. Like, I don't think so. Not very much. So I've more done it because, you know, I'm just interested in helping people.

Yeah.

You know, it's a very, like, personal, you know, personal reason for why he's joined and worked on this.

That's awesome. I always think it's really cool when there's something that's kind of, you know, come out of it positive for the masterminds behind the product. You know, it's. I got into this space. I was already a feeding therapist, but I got into the MYO space and the infant feeding space because of my own kids. Right. And then because I learned about myself like that, hey, I've got all these things going on, too, so I guess it's only fair to treat myself. If I put my kids through all.

Of this.

I say it like it's a bad thing, but, no, it's been a journey for sure. But it is really cool when you come out on the other side of it, because I think the biggest thing that my patients have said that really stands out to me is I didn't know what I was missing out on until I knew what I was missing out on. Right. Like they didn't. They've gone through their whole life just living a certain way, having a certain energy level, like not getting good restorative sleep, waking throughout the night feeling unrefreshed upon waking just because of how they're breathing at night when they're sleeping and how it's interrupting their sleep. And it's like, who, who would have thought such a little thing would make such a big deal? Right? Here we are like with massive industry surrounding it. But it's really, really cool to see these patients come to that realization themselves because now they're like, I have a new lease on life. Like, this is, this is incredible. Like, I wish I did this sooner.

Well, and it's amazing like how little, you know, not like how little people know about everything, but it's still a very new, you know, you kind of mentioned before, like it is a very new thing, you know, because most people we talk to, they're, you know, like when I was talking about the customer research and we're talking about, oh yeah, you can do these exercises, you know, we kept it very like simple and they're like, oh, I've never even heard of it. Like it's only like people that somehow they make it to a malfunctional therapist, then they start, you know, it kind of opens up Pandora's box, I guess. I don't know if that's the right way to phrase it.

You know, all these things, rabbit hole, like all the above. Yeah.

And there's patients we've talked to like that they've gone down the rabbit hole. Yeah. Like what you just said, where they had to learn it all themselves, where they're doing their own research and education because, you know, they have like a high voltage palate and you know, like just they're trying to figure out how they can improve their condition. They've had this issue of like obstructive sleep apnea or other things and how do they improve it? And they've kind of had to like educate themselves, you know, a lot. It's not like, here's all the information and everyone should know this. It's like you kind of have to find it for a lot of people. Some people, yeah, it's, it's good that there's more myofunctional therapists and that's increasing. But yeah, it's still pretty new.

It's Interesting, because people think snoring is cute and they think that it's normal. And there's a lot of pediatricians that still tell parents, oh, it's fine, it's normal, don't worry about it. Or drooling to the age of three or four is normal. And the kids soaking a bib or soaking their shirt like every 30 minutes. I'm like, this is what's wrong with the pediatric industry, at least that there just isn't a general consensus on what's healthy and what's normal. Quote, unquote, like, okay, define normal. But also, we shouldn't be drooling and we shouldn't be snoring ever. So, you know, it's, it's one of those things where while. Why is this child losing so much saliva out of the front of their mouth when they're awake? You know, why are they snoring like a. Like I had, I walked into one classroom and this little three year old was snoring. It sounded like there was a middle aged man sleeping on the floor in that preschool classroom. And I was like, is that child sick? And they were like, no, no, they always sound like that. And I was like, are you cool with like me talking to the director? Because I have some like, great concerns about the safety of this child when they're sleeping. And they were like, no, absolutely. They're like, we've been talking about this all year. We think it's kind of crazy that like. And we're like. I was like, this is dangerous. This is like. And they were like, what? And I was like, yeah. So now like, we've, we've tried to make an effort, at least in my private practice that I have in the D.C. metro area, to go and educate preschool teachers and staff about. Like, well, what do you look for during snack time when they're eating? What do you look for during nap time when they're sleeping? And what do you look for just in general during the day when the kids are playing? Like, is their mouth closed? Is their tongue in or out? Are they drooling? Is the food falling out of their mouth? Are they putting their hands all the way into their mouth because their tongue can't function properly to move the food to their teeth? You know, all these just little things that they can look for and quote, unquote, screen and you know, I'm like, that's, I feel like that's our future. We need to be starting there with these little kiddos so we can hopefully decrease the amount of adults that are Getting to, you know, getting so far into life. Who knows how long they've had this. This issue, Right? It's. It's probably been there for quite a while before it's actually become a really invasive problem for them from a health standpoint.

Yeah, no, I really like that. Like, I think, you know, educating teachers, like, that's probably easier than trying to educate all the. You know, it's the parents, probably both. You know, you definitely need to do both, but, like, finding ways to just kind of spread the information and catch it early. Yeah, I think that that's awesome. Like, definitely, if you're out, how to skip, you know, like, get that program to, you know, expand across the US or something. I mean, that's a lot.

But having conversations with some colleagues about that in the dental space, the dental sleep space. Because I was like, we have got to figure out, like, how do we create a universal space screening that's, like, mandatory. That happens. You know, they have universal newborn hearing screenings in the hospital. How about we do an intraoral, like, quick check on the mouth? Like, is the mouth open or closed? And is the tongue up or down? That's it. Let's just start there. Let's give it a score and move on. And if they need the referral, they get the referral because we know that that's highly contributing to any feeding struggles. So if we're looking for that already. At the very beginning, when I had my second daughter, I was like, I am not looking in her mouth for 24 hours. My first one was tied. I didn't know till she was 24 months old. That was a horrible experience. I am not doing that again. And I like, I. She lashed, and I was like, oh, no. I don't even have to look like it's there. But what was interesting is these hospitals have gag orders, and so they can't often even diagnose it, or if they look and see it, they can't tell you anything. So it wasn't until I diagnosed it, and then my pediatrician came by and agreed with me that the hospital then went, do you want us to release it? And I was like, don't touch my baby. You diagnose it. But now you want to do a medical procedure on her? No, thanks. Yeah, so, like, we've got to get it there, then we've got to get it into the preschools. And then I feel like it should be, you know, they often do the hearing and vision screenings in both preschool and early elementary school. Like, once or twice. Like, sometimes first and third grade or kindergarten, third grade or whatever. I'm like, we have got to get these in there. With the hearing and vision screenings, there needs to be some kind of like an oral screen going on, like a.

Breathing or breathing screen.

So I've created actually Fast myo screening tool which is free for download. And it's got, it's just a checklist of like the 40 most common symptoms that you can very quickly visualize. And we give the kid like a cracker and Dixie cup of water and that's it. And I mean you don't even have to do that to visualize all of these. But we do that so we can see how they're eating. But it's basically F for face and like that includes dental and then A for airway, S for for swallow and T for tongue. And so if you're looking at these four things just very quickly, you very quickly know like, hey, do I need to refer this person on or not? And that's all, that's the whole purpose of it. And we tell like RDHs, laminate it, stick it on your wall. So when you're writing your notes for that patient before the dentist comes in, you can just quickly glance at the symptoms and add anything to your, like add a comment and move on. It doesn't need to be more than a 32nd, you know, screen. So they're seeing it anyways, right? These people are laying in the chair and. Or pediatrics, they're laying in the. And they're seeing it throughout the entire cleaning. Right. It's like they have the best eyes. It's like a window into all these problems. So anyways, that's my soapbox.

I think what you're doing is great.

Thank you. No, I think it's really cool though to bring this all full circle and to have like products like yours because they think that, you know, one, whatever helps and whatever gets the foot in the door to opening up patients eyes about like, hey, there are other options out there. And yes, this is what you should be doing. Like I said, the education you guys have on your website, I think it's just, it's so clear cut and forward. So good, good work on that. I love all the work you guys have put into that. It shows. Is there anything else like that you guys have either on the horizon or any other applications you're using the product for? Anything that we haven't talked about?

Well so there's, yeah, application wise there's a lot of other application. So like speech therapists, like are looking at it for other things, you know, more like rehabilitation. We've had, we've had like a hockey broadcaster used it for like he used it to help so he could speak longer without getting his muscles tired. So just like these other applications that we, you know, we're starting with the snoring and then we're going into obstructive sleep apnea. Then eventually, you know, we want to come up with like a pediatric product because like you were saying, a lot of this stuff is happening earlier and we're just kind of getting it at the, you know, after years and years of having a problem. So we're trying to get earlier, you know, but we're making sure we design it right and make sure it's, you know, well suited for children that they understand how to use it properly. Because we don't want to just have, you know, they're not going to use it right, which I think most, you know, hopefully they'll be able to use it right off the get go. But figuring out the best way to make sure they doing it properly and you know, how best can we help them as they like, you know, develop. So that's, that's some stuff we're working on. But yeah, there's a lot of applications beyond just sleep, you know, it's just the mouth muscles in general, you know, eating, chewing, like swallowing, speaking.

Yeah.

Breathing, you know, so it's, there's other applications.

That's exciting. That's exciting. I think there another big divide in the speech pathology world is that people don't seem to think that, you know, our tongue is important for speech. No, I'm kidding. They do. But you know, they're okay with teaching compensations and this is their words, not mine. I actually had a post on this this week and I've talked about this in the past on my social media because they gladly say they teach compensations. And I'm going, but wait, if we're teaching compensations that also impacts where the tongue exists for breathing, for bolus, prep for swallow. Like this is not just about speech. Like we need to kind of see beyond that initial, you know, goal that you're treating in therapy. And it also goes to, goes to show that a lot of these kids are in years and years and years of therapy when if we actually addressed it from an orofacial myofunctional standpoint from the get go, it probably dismissed within a year.

That's better. I'm sure the kid doesn't want to be in, you know, speech therapy. For years and years.

I mean, it's a huge issue. So I think, like, your product from a pediatric standpoint could be really cool, because, you know, anything that lessens the amount of therapy. One, it's a huge investment monetarily for parents, even if they're running it through insurance. Right. And two, it's a huge time investment. And I have a private practice, so don't get me wrong. Like, you know, I'm not trying to put my. I mean, put me out of business. Fine, whatever. You know, I would. That means that nobody has any issues, and that would actually make me very happy. But as far as it goes, when I get these teenagers who have been in seven, eight, nine years of speech therapy, and they're like, I'm going to high school in the fall. I just want to speak clearly. I don't want to be made fun of anymore. Like, there's a social, emotional impact on it, and it's sad. You know, it's sad to see what they've had to struggle through. And there's just people who are, like, ignoring. Ignoring the myofunctional therapy space because it's. It doesn't have enough research behind it, or it does. It's just crazy. So, anyways, I'm here for all the research, and hopefully whatever research you all do as far as it, you know, applies to the water bottle, will also just, you know, show people, hey, look, this is a. This is a real problem, and there is more research to support it. I know there's a lot being done right now, and so I'm like, it can't be published fast enough.

Yeah, I'm sure that, like, a mild, functional wave, you know, like, this is. But it's definitely spreading. You know, there's more. Just dentists learning about it. Like, still. It's a small percentage, but it's, like, spreading, you know, so it's.

It's exciting.

I'm sure, like, five, ten years from now, it's going to look much different than what it does today.

That's the goal. I'm. I'm actually releasing my own MYO course because everybody in my membership, my. My membership has been like, like, you've got it. Like, you got to create a course. You got to give us a chorus. And I'm like, okay, fine. So we just released the course to those in our membership. And so I spent a ton of time going through the history, and I'm like, Maya was 115 years old. Like, that's not new. I mean, in human standards for as Long as, like, we have existed, that's really not a new quote, unquote, therapy. I think, like, the first exercises were introduced, like, not too long after, you know, it was initially thought of the whole concept of, like, us not having enough room for our tongue in our jaw and the tongue not being too big, but the jaw being too small and it being an airway issue. Like, this is all in the literature from, like, the late 1800s. I like, so it's. It's one of those things where I'm like, okay, we've. We've gone back and forth. I don't know if, you know, the whole history behind it, but the pathology organizations, right, like, they had created the iom, and then Asha recognized it, and then Asha did not recognize it and basically booted it out as a concept. And then, you know, the dentists and RDHs kind of entered the space because nobody else was doing it. And then, you know, the SLPs came back into the space. And so now it's like, now we're all here, and I'm actually trying to argue, to get, like, the OTs into the space because they do feeding, so they should be sitting at this table with us doing MYO as well. And, you know, I'm just hoping if we can get more, you know, these four, the dentists, RDHs, the SLPs, and the OTs all kind of bring our heads together. I'm like, we could definitely make a much larger imprint much quicker.

So, yeah, I think, because we've definitely, like, Talked with some OTs and other people, like, yeah, they're definitely interested. So I think, yeah, it's happening, yes, maybe slowly, but it's happening, surely.

Slowly but surely. Well, this is. This has been amazing. Anything else you want to share with us about the product that we haven't chatted about?

Yeah. Oh, the one thing I forgot to say for, like, the benefits, the other thing is the no extra time. You know, you're not putting extra time into having to do exercise or even think about it. You know, once you get used to it, it's like drinking water, you know, out of anything else. Like, after a couple weeks or a month, you know, it just becomes second nature, where, like, definitely, like the first week or two of using it, you know, maybe you're like, okay, what am I doing it properly? And it's a workout. But then after that, you know, it gets very easy to use, and I use it as my daily water bottle. Like, this is what I carry around with me all the time. So, yeah, I think. I think that's everything. Yeah.

I don't know.

I can't think of anything else.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thank you again for the water bottle, for your time. Today we will put the remastered sleep.com website, like I said, with the. With the YouTube video with the show notes and everything, so everybody easily find you. And as we mentioned, the usability study is right there on their website. We'll link that as well, as well as the education. If you just go to remastered sleep.com and go to how it works, you guys can, you know, very quickly look at how you all have educated the public, because I do think there's some good info here for, you know, we always have people coming to us, People. Myofunctional therapists coming to us, being like, how do I simplify this and market this to patients? Like, how do I talk about mayo? And I'm like, again, you guys have as, like, non therapists. Like, you have done a beautiful job. So.

Thank you.

Good work. Yeah. So it'll be really cool. I'm excited to see what you guys come out with as far as, like, a pediatric, you know, product goes. So keep me posted on that because I'd love to check that out when you guys are either developing or.

Do you want to be one of the people we interview just to get, like, some knowledge about the space? Okay, we'll put you on the list.

I mean, yeah, so the other thing I do, too, is I have this pediatric feeding course, feed the PEDs, and I launched it. It was meant to be a fully online course, 12 week, like, college level course before the pandemic happened. And it happened to launch the first one on March 16, 2020. So as everybody sat down, they all jumped into the course because they were like, well, we don't really have any work right now. We're not really sure what we're supposed to be doing or we're supposed to be doing this, like, virtual therapy. And I have all this time now at home, so it's been really cool. We've had over, like a thousand therapists now go through or the six times that we've released it. And then between that and the MYO course. Yeah, I'm like your number one preacher when it comes to, like, what children should be using and what adults should be using. So, yeah, hit me up.

We'll definitely put you on the list.

Perfect. Awesome. All right, well, thank you so much, Anders. This has been amazing.

Yeah, no, thank you. Thanks for having us on. Like, always a pleasure. And yeah, definitely. We'll be in touch.

All right, we'll chat soon.

Sounds good.

Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you want to hear more of these Myo Tots, Airway and Feeding related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or pledge a small amount on patreon.com the Untethered podcast. If you found value, others you know in this space will too. So be sure to share this episode on your social media platforms and join us over on Facebook on my Facebook page @halibalkinbiz, on Instagram Alibulcan, and you can head over to theuntetheredpodcast.com to grab a copy of the Show Notes, where you can also subscribe to be kept up to date on the latest podcast episodes.