Episode 187: Expanding Your Knowledge As A New Graduate with Kathleen Dung, M.S., CCC-SLP

Hi and welcome to episode 187 of the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Kathleen Dung joining us. Kathleen is a speech language pathologist and Southern California native currently working in an outpatient setting in a community hospital in California. She has a passion for pediatric dysphasia and has experience across the lifespan in the school's skilled nursing facility, private practice and inpatient settings. She loves to cook, spend time with friends and family, go to the beach and all things outdoors. She happened to be a student who took our first, first inaugural Feed the Peds course back in March 2020. And so I'm super excited to dive into this episode so you can hear all about her journey ever since. Quick disclaimer. All information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Hallie Balkan. I'm a certified orofacial myolog feeding specialist and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, tethered oral tissue and airway space. I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to get this information out to the masses.

Let's get started. Kathleen, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

I'm excited too. So, for those who don't know, Kathleen was in our first Feed the Peeds course back in March 2020 when the world shut down. And it's. Yeah, it's been so fun to see students who are like, you were just out of school right at that point.

Yeah, I had just finished my Master's and I was just starting my cf.

Yeah. And you. I know everybody was kind of like, what do we do now? Like, the world will shut down. We don't know if it'll be like two days, two weeks. Like, there were so many unknowns. And yeah, it's been really cool to see the journey, especially now that we're like two, two and a half years out from, like when the course started, to see the journey of how some students in the course, including yourself, have evolved. So I would love to just chat about your journey because I think it would be really helpful for other clinicians who are either in grad school or early on in their career, or even someone who's possibly looking to make the jump into pediatric feeding. I would love to. So what, like, did you have any big takeaways from taking the course? Like, anything that you were like, wow, I wish I had this in grad school. Or anything that sticks out in your mind.

Well, I wish I had the whole course in grad school.

We all do. Yeah.

I feel like it's just now starting to become part of the curriculum because all the dysphagia I got was mostly adult geared. I had maybe two lectures that were for pediatric dysphagia and I was like, wait, I want more.

I don't think I had any. I had zero. Like, no pediatrician dysphagia at all. And it was so interesting because I feel like it was a program where we got such a great view on, like, peds and adults throughout most other areas. So the fact that, like, the dysphagia courses were so heavily focused on adults with, like, no recognition of pediatrics was very fascinating. And I was kind of like, I like this, but I don't want to work with adults. So moving on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So. So tell us. So you came out of school, obviously the world shut down, the pandemic started, you jumped into the course. Like, what's happened since then?

So since then I worked at a private practice where we served a lot of little ones with pediatric feeding disorders. I kind of got my feet wet there with some of the school age kiddos and kind of backed into the younger kids and did a lot of observations with lactation and some bottle feeding. And then I had the opportunity to work in a community based hospital setting, which is where I am now. And I do a lot of early intervention and a lot more bottle feeding, a little bit of lactation. A lot of transitional feeders come to see us. So it's been crazy.

You've had quite the ride. I mean, it's. And it's so cool to see somebody step into this so early on in your career. Because I always tell everybody, I'm like, I feel like I was thrown in. Like, I was interested, but I went to the schools and I was like, I started in the school schools and I had a three year contract. And I was like, hey, I want to do home health. Like, I want to do infants and toddlers. Like, send me that way. And they were like, well, you didn't have that experience in grad school, so, no, like, you can't go that direction. And I was like, I don't like being told no. Like, that's what I really want. This is like, not Going to be fun. So I started and they gave me like preschool only, which was like unheard of. My entire schedule, full time schedule, was like I was split between two preschools in the county. Like, how many based preschools? And so I was at least grateful for that. But they, I was, okay, can I do feeding? And they're like, no, we don't do feeding. And then all of a sudden, a therapist in one of my schools went on maternity leave and I inherited her caseload, or parts of it at least. And one of them was a medically complex, like, you know, kiddos, like a medically complex based classroom. Like, these kids had their 24 hour nurses with them and. And here I get IEPs with feeding goals on them and I like walk in and they're literally, they have the kids necks and extension. They're pouring food down their throat, like, you know, and I'm like, okay, I don't know a lot, but I know that that is not safe. Like, what is going on here? So I quickly, like also just threw myself in. My CF year just starting, like taking as many CEUs as I could get my hands on. And I was so hard to find, like, applicable information. I was like, I just want someone to give me, like a comprehensive course so I can get started and then I'll continue to take more. And yeah, so that was like my pain point in the beginning where I was like, oh, I wish I had, I wish I had feed the peds 12 years ago, but here we are. So, yeah, it was, it was a journey. And over like the years then I've also like evolved into working with like, different populations. And I've had some fun ones. Like, I, at one point I was really into working with like children on the spectrum and they were just, I loved like the challenge and getting, you know, figuring out their best ways of communicating. But then I started to notice like, their eating patterns and their stomach troubles, like constipation. And then, you know, and I was like, okay, this is interesting. And that like, threw me down another rabbit hole. And then I had my first child and I fell down the Tatumaya rabbit hole. And here we are. Here we are. So do you find like, are you doing tongue tie assessments? Do you find like a lot of mouth breathing babies? Are you doing, you know, are you seeing different things where you are.

So it comes in waves. There's like months at a time where we get a lot of tongue tie assessments and then. But I mean, throughout my practice, when I'm even just evaluating kiddos for Language or speech sounds. I notice all of that, and I definitely incorporate what we learned in the course and through courses that I've taken after into my practice and just help explain things to parents in a different way. And I've had one parent in particular say, oh, my gosh, it was like a light bulb moment for her. It makes complete sense that, you know, someone with the skills that her son had obviously has difficulty making speech sounds because his tongue's not strong enough or he doesn't have the range of motion. So it's nice to figure out and talk about the why instead of like, okay, they're just not making this sound, but I can't really give you a reason.

Yeah, well, and I think it's, you know, if you can be relatable with parents, right? Like, if they. If you can help connect the dots. Because it just feels like, like we get so many parents, even little ones, where they're like, they're not talking or I don't understand what they're saying. And other people don't understand or I understand, but other, you know, their teachers don't. And I feel like those are some, like, the most common referrals we get are either, like, speech or feeding face. And they're very obvious things, right? And then you kind of dive a bit deeper to look at, like, well, what's the root cause? Like, what's connecting all of these either delays or, you know, disordered, you know, speech or feeding or whatever language, whatever is going on, and you start to look like full body impact, like we talk about. And you start to go like, okay, there's a little bit more going on here. We can totally address this. And I think, like, when you make those connections for parents are like, whoa, why has nobody else ever told me this? And, oh, yeah, I mean, it would make sense that they. The function is impaired. Like, obviously, you know, we don't use this. These words necessarily, but, like, you know, the parent won't say this back, but the functions impaired because anatomically, like, they can't do it, or we need to teach them the skills because of the, you know, they're using compensatory skills right now. So, yeah, I think that, like, the best clinicians are those who, like, connect with the families and make it easy to understand, like, what's going on, why function is impaired. And, like, how are we gonna work on this together, right? And I feel like that's. That was lacking so much back like, when, you know, I think I first started, especially being in the schools, like, with IEPs like, it was hard to communicate with a lot of the families and I'm like, I wish I could just, like, have a five minute conversation and like, learn a bit more about what they present, like at home. And we tried, but, you know, anyways, so. Yeah. Do you find that, like, the families where you are are very interactive? Do you have like a mix? Like, what is, like, what's been?

Yeah, I feel like wherever you go, you'll always have a mix. You have some families who are super involved and they'll email you like twice a day with questions. And then you have other families where it's like, okay, let's see if we can like, tweak things just slightly so that we can make a little bit of progress this week.

Yeah.

And trying to figure out what works best for the families and how you can best support them and their kiddos versus, like, having this goal and knowing the steps that you need to make towards that goal and trying to have the family kind of fit into your plan.

Yeah.

Making it a little bit more integrated that way.

Yeah. And that's, that's the skill that I feel like, for some of us feels like so obvious, but I think that it's so. It's so very much so lacking in our industry. And because we have parents come to us and they're like, wow, no one ever explained like, that, like, they were kind of doing the same thing at the last place, but no one really explained to me why they were doing it. And like, now I get it. Now it makes sense. And, you know, and so parents will leave if there isn't clarity, like, they'll want to stop therapy. And so I think also getting like, for those who are interested in being involved, like, getting the involvement also has a lot to do with, like, how they connect with you and how they see their child connect with you. So. Yeah, no, I love that. So for a new grad or somebody coming out, do you have any, like, not coming out, but someone like coming out of grad school or their CF or even just again, wanting to transition, even if it's not feeding, like, just into another maybe specialty area within the field? Do you have any, like, tips or advice or anything you feel like you did that was like, really beneficial to you?

Yeah. So when I started taking the course, I told myself, I'm going to push myself to be better. Especially after your first module where you said, be that person that you want to be. You are a pediatric feeding therapist. I tried to ask questions where I felt like I couldn't Google the answer. And it came through experience or mentorship. And just be curious and always learn and always push yourself to grow, because we're never done learning, and you're never done growing and just putting yourself in that mindset that you're not always gonna know the answer, and that's okay. And that's where you go to your colleagues and other people in the field, in your community, like, on Facebook. I love that we can always ask each other questions there and get lots of different perspectives to, yeah, keep growing and be a better therapist.

Yeah, I love that. And I don't know if you were in, like, the free training that I did the week before I launched the course, but, like, like, like, you would remember. Remember this from two and a half years ago. Are you familiar with the Dunning Kruger effect? Do you know what that is?

I vaguely remember it.

Remind me. I always bring it up because I'm like, it's that. And I'm gonna, like, butcher it, too, because, like, I was. This just, like, fell into my brain randomly. But it's basically where, like, you know, like, a new grad graduates, and you're like, I'm on top of the world. I know everything. Like, let's go. And then it. Then people who have been in the field for, like, 10, 15, 20 years are like, I know nothing. Like, I just need to keep learning. And it's so. It's this interesting, like, effect where, you know, sometimes we even enter into our field, like, ready to take on our patients, kind of feeling like, okay, we're new. But also, like, I got this. I got what I needed from grad school. And then it's like, you're sitting in front of the patient, you're like, I don't got this. Like, what do they teach me? So, yeah, we. I feel like we encounter so many speech pathologists who come out of school. Like, I've talked to new ots and, you know, that are like, I don't know what to do. And it's so hard to find mentorship. And, you know, I don't want to look stupid. And I'm like, look, like, at the end of the day, none of us know everything. Like, I don't know everything. People have been teaching for 50 years who have been in the field for 60 years. Like, they don't know everything. And I love how you said, like, always keep learning. Ask questions, like, talk to colleagues. I feel like that is the mentality that we need to have and carry forward. And I feel like I'm seeing a Lot more of that in life. Like the newer generations of graduates versus some of, like, the older generations that are, like, older than me. Because it was really hard when I came out. Like, nobody wanted to help. And even if I offered to, like, pay a mentor to help me, when I was like, you know, getting certified in Mayo or early on in my feeding days, like, it was crickets. Like, people just wouldn't respond. And I'm like, just say no. Like, just say no. So I know you're not, like, just totally ignoring me. It was. It's so interesting. And that's also been, like, part of my mission, like, elevation movement. Like, let's work together because these patients need us. And if we can't, like, elevate each other and support each other, then what good are we to the, you know, the rest of the field and the patients? It's. Yeah. So I love that you're, like, you know, saying to push yourself, continue growing. And I think staying curious and just like that, having that fire and desire to, like, learn more is one of the best things that, like, anybody can just kind of maintain as, you know, that desire as you continue throughout, like, your entire career, really.

Yeah. And when I started this position, I got close to one of the older therapists who's been working here for, I think, 45 years. And I was talking to her about how, you know, I have all this knowledge and this information and. But I still don't feel like I know what I'm doing sometimes and I need that extra support. And she was like, you know what, Kathleen? Give it 10 years, and even then you're not going to know everything and you're still going to feel this way.

Oh, yeah. No, it's so true. Even 10 years in, 12 years in, I see patient and I'm like, okay, well take some notes here. And this is just the evaluation. I'm going to ask questions and I'm going to go have some conversations with some colleagues and kind of figure out, am I even the right next step person to treat this child? Should I be treating them and making some other referrals? I feel like you all always get cases where sometimes you get cases and you're like, okay, like, I've done this. This is looking kind of like, you know, like what I've seen in the past. Like, I can definitely help this family. Obviously every patient is different, but, like, you at least have, like, you start to get, like a general, like, groove with, like, certain, you know, types of patients. And then you always get those patients who have Like a diagnosis you've never heard of, or they present like they come in with a diagnosis and they present completely different than any other child you've ever worked with. And I'm like, okay, what do we do here? So, yes, it doesn't get better because. But I think that's also the beauty of what we do. Like, it continues to challenge you. And that's what was exciting to me. It was like, it keeps me, it kept me on my toes. Like, it keeps me learning, talking, trying to figure out, like, at the end of the day, we're not treating to the diagnosis, we're treating to the child and the way the child presents. And I think that too, like, just remembering that and seeing like what the child responds to, like, that it's like a dance. I would say it's like kind of like a dance between like an art and science. Like, you really have to like put that critical thinking cap on because you're like, okay, where are we going today? Yeah. So do you like. And I'm so curious because now that you're like a couple of years out of school, do you plan sessions? Like, do you like sit down and like spend time planning like every single session for patients, or do you kind of just like look at the notes from last time and jump in? Like, what do you do?

It depends. There's some patients where I'm like, okay, I need a little bit more practice. I need more experience with this. I need to pull from these resources. And then there's some kids where, like my school age kids or my picky eaters where I just do a lot of play based feeding therapy and I'll look at the notes, I'll see what they did last week, and then I'll maybe write down on a post it what I want to follow up on and then we'll just go from there and it's super fun every time.

Yeah. No, I remember like one of my grad school teachers saying something like, oh, the best therapist can just do therapy with whatever's in their purse. And I was like, what? Like in grad school? I was like, okay. And so she was like, let's open your bag. Like, what's inside? And like we pull out like a pencil. She's like, how would you do therapy with this pencil? We were like, well, who's the patient? And she's like, doesn't matter. How would you do that? We were like, what? And then as, like, as I, you know, moved away from my earlier years as a therapist, I think I was probably like four or five years into it, I was still traveling to a lot of patients homes. And I just remember being like, I can't carry all this stuff. Like, my trunk is full, but, like, there's got to be a limit. And finally I was like, I don't actually need all this stuff. Like, like, I had the nickname the bag lady. People call me the bag lady because I, like, always came in with like the fun bags, toys and materials and all the stuff. And so I would go to like some preschools and see like, you know, a bunch of kids back to back. And anyways, so yeah, at the end of the day, like, I was like, I mean, I can do therapy out of my purse. It's not always the most fun therapy when you're working with little kids. So. But yeah, I got to the point where, like, I just wasn't planning anymore. I would literally, like, open up their file and their emr at the beginning of the session and be like, okay, what do we do last week? What did I ask them to do over the week? Okay, great, let's go. And that was, like, liberating. It was so fun. So, yeah, so, yeah, so what? Any other, like, suggestions if someone's kind of like, nervous to jump into the pee feeding world because they're like, fearful of working with the patients or like, I feel like I get that a lot. Like, people are like, I don't want to hurt anybody. Like, I don't want to do, make the wrong choice and like, hurt a patient because, like, this is medical. It's not like, you know, playing games and building language. Not to downplay that, but, you know, there's a medical component here. Any, like, advice as like a, you know, a therapist now who's been doing this for a few years?

Yeah. You know, other therapists who have more experience have always, you know, talked to me about this too. It's okay to be scared. It's okay to be nervous. If you're not nervous, then there's an issue.

You know.

Taking the time to find a supportive team and find a mentor like you have and feed the peds to use as a resource and to talk about cases and evals before they come to have a good plan so that you feel confident and growing your skill set that way, I think is a really good, good place to start. Because, like, you tell your patients you need practice. If you don't have practice, you're not gonna get better or grow. You're just gonna stay stagnant in the same place. So you need to do the same things and pushing yourself is hard, but you feel so much better afterwards. And you, you know, having this community and support system makes worlds of a difference in your practice. You know, you're not only going to work with just whatever size team you're working with. You have all these other people, all these other therapists with different viewpoints and different experiences to help you grow and to help you learn.

I love that. I love that. I love how you said, like, you should have a little bit of, like, angst or fear or something, like when you're basically starting out right. And it's so true. Like, they always say that, like, anything that you're not afraid of is, like, not worth doing. Like, it. You know, I always tell, because I also do business coaching. Like, I tell, like, business owners even. I'm like, they're like, I'm feeling some, like, anxiety or I'm feeling like some fear, like, creeping up. Like, who am I to do this? Like, why me? Like, why, why, you know, why me? And I'm like, look, like that. That means that this is something exciting that you want to do and that you are. You're pushing yourself forward and you're feeling this because it's new. And, you know, it's like you're. You're about to jump into something you've never done before. And obviously there's like, different levels of, like, you know, angst over. But I love how you brought that up, because when I see therapists who are like, I think there's a difference between being competent, confident, new, and still having like, a little fear of like, oh, my gosh, like, am I really doing this? And, you know, starting and being like, right, and still, but still then kind of growing into that confidence more and more. And on the flip side, it's like, very dangerous place to be if, like, ego is driving things. And there's like this, this false sense of like, self esteem or self importance because, like, oh, I've got all the information and I know what I'm doing. And you've never actually touched the page, like a patient day in your life. You know, it's. I think when ego drives things, like, that's dangerous. And so, yeah, I love that you brought that up because I think it's. It's almost important that you have that and you recognize that everybody experiences that and it's okay. And if you didn't, like, we might be a little concerned just a smidge. Yeah, I mean, it's okay to be confident, but also like, like a Little bit, like, you know, like. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. So are there any other tips, anything we haven't, like, covered that you would say to a newer therapist in this space, whether they're new to SLP or just new to pee feeding?

I mean, kind of like what you say when you talk about the course, invest in yourself. You're worth it. You're worth the time, you're worth the money. You can do lots of things. If you persevere and you push through and you have a growth mindset and know that you're not always going to have the answer, it's okay not to know, it's okay to ask questions, it's okay to be vulnerable, because that's how you better yourself for not only your own clinical practice, but your patients and serving whatever community you are.

Yeah, yeah. Again, I love this, like, the whole growth mindset thing. You know, it's like growth over comfort, right? Like, you can either stay comfortable or you can grow. Like, they don't really go together. And I think that when you can really, truly step into taking on those challenges and learning from those, you know, what's put in front of you, obviously you become more capable, you develop your skill set, you increase your confidence and. And yeah, I think it's so rewarding. Like, it just this space, like working with these patients, at least my experience has been that it, it's a challenge. But when you maintain that growth mindset and, you know, you just kind of push forward, like, it is just. It's such rewarding work because you're literally changing, like, the future of that patient's life. You know, they're. Whether they're not able to get proper nutrition because of their feeding challenges, and now they can, you know, they're developing oral motor skills, are able to keep their mouth closed, maybe they got their tongue up, they can breathe through their nose. You know, it's like all those beneficial.

Side effects, a lot of pressure on yourself to get there too soon and just in enjoy the journey and enjoy the ride will definitely help.

I love that. I love that. And, and that whole piece of it, too. Like taking the time you need to take to develop your skills and asking the questions like we've talked about and allowing yourself to become a critical thinker, I think is so important because, like, when you talk about social media, you know, I get messages all the time like, hey, what are the exercises you do before a frenectomy? Hey, like, what do you do for this? And I'm Like. Like, it's not that cut and dry. Like, I can give you some exercises. You're still going to have to figure out who needs what and who doesn't need what and what else they might need beyond what I've given you or what you might need to modify when working with a certain patient. It's like, not. You know, it's like, I can give you a whole library of exercises, but that doesn't actually totally tell you how to do therapy. Like, you need to know what you're doing, why you're doing it, what you're working on, what the end goal is. And, like, how are you trying to accomplish that? And I know you touched on that earlier, too, but that was, like, one of our big goals. I was like, I feel like I left all these courses, and I was kind of like, I don't know what to do. Like, I have some ideas for a couple patients. But, like, after that, then what? And I also think that was my mindset. Like, coming out of school was kind of like, well, just tell me what to do and I'll go do it. And, you know, so, like, it's. I don't blame any therapist who comes and asks for that. But then I'm kind of like, pump the brakes. Like, let's have a conversation. Critical thinking. Like, we seem to have lost, like, this whole, like, even me, I was like, we seem to have lost the ability to be critical thinkers, like, analyze what's in front of us and create a treatment plan based on the patient, not, like, a protocol. So, yeah, that's. That was, like, a big, big goal of ours, and I'm hoping that it's evolving more in our industry again.

Yes.

Do you feel like it was something like, coming out of the course, do you feel like you were able to kind of look at a patient and, like, have an idea of at least how to assess and maybe where to start treatment? Like, where were you with that?

Yeah, I definitely felt like with the really simple cases who weren't really medically complex, I could figure out a plan for assessment and treatment. It was the more complex kiddos where I was like, okay, wait, I know what to do. I need help. This is what I'm thinking. What else are you thinking of? And what else can I do to make sure it's a thorough assessment and they're getting good treatment? And I know and can feel like I'm doing a good job.

Yeah. And I think that that's part of it too. Right. It's like, we. It is like A two way street, right? Like you're helping the patient, but it's also the work we do feels really good. Especially when they're, you know, making progress and the caregivers are like less stressed and they're happy and things are moving in the right direction. And yeah, I mean those, those medically complex kiddos, like, they are challenging sometimes. And it's one of those situations where you're like, okay, like, are there any contraindications if we do this and do. Is there. Has anybody worked with this population? So I know there are like certain things I should consider that I'm missing. And, and I think that's what makes pediatric feeding so complex too because like, we don't always know when we get these patients that they have some of these other things going on. And sometimes it's like, not until you like, are already working with them. And then like things start to pop up and you're like, wait a second, like, what's going on here? Like, did I miss something? Was it just not super visible to me because I'm newer therapist? And I will tell you, even, you know, As a therapist, 12 years into, still happens. Like, you get these kids, right? They come to you. Maybe you're the first provider, maybe you're the tenth. But like we come to you. Maybe, you know, they've got great history that you've reviewed, but there's nothing documenting like, you know, that they have airway considerations and all of a sudden this kid has like laryngo Malaysia. Like, they come to you and you see it and you're like, there's something going on. I'm not really, I can't diagnose it, so I can't say it is or it isn't. But, you know, and then they go to the ent and the ENT is like, they're fine and you're like, they're not fine. And you know, and it's like this like dance of like, okay, well now what do we do? Yeah, so it's, it still happens. And I think that that's where that critical thinking component comes in. Because like, then it's like, well, what is safe for this child? And what do I feel comfortable, you know, advising this family on? Like, what's in my scope? Who else can maybe see them? Like what, you know, in terms of other specialists that maybe will help us figure out what's going on and that'll, you know, that all grows out of that critical thinking component of not just like, oh, I have to assess them and I Have to treat them and dismiss them. And once they can kind of like drink, like, they're dismissed. Like, no, not because they can you gulp down a bottle despite the surrounding symptoms or compensations. No, like, let's figure out what's actually going on and try to, like, you know, dig a bit deeper, treat it from the root of the issue. But yeah, that's, that's one of the things too, that we've had a lot of feedback on. And so we're developing some more advanced horses. Now I'm gonna ask, is that what's coming? It's coming, it's coming.

It's.

Now the wheels are in motion. We're like kind of trying to nail down an outline and start to figure out who's going to educate, you know, in some of these courses and. But really, yeah, to dive deeper into some of these nuances and, you know, and that will also be tied to a certification if people are interested. But we're figuring it all out because everyone's like, we need more. I'm like, okay, we're working on it. Yeah.

And I mean, when you get those complex kiddos too, that's where I'll go and collaborate with my PTS and my OTs and other physicians and school therapists and other people that they're seeing so that it's a really comprehensive treatment, too.

Yeah. And that's, that's so important. I mean, it's like, if I haven't drilled that into everybody's head, like, either through the course or my podcast or whatever, I'm like, teamwork, collaboration, like, figure out, you know, and it just, just, I always, like, I've shared this, I feel like a couple times lately on recent podcasts, but like, I just remember sitting around my kitchen table like it was a myo case of a 10 year old. But just remember sitting there looking at a case and how every different professional sitting around the table, from like osteopath to PT to oral surgeon, you know, airway dentist, rdh, me, you know, like vision therapist. Like, we all saw something different on that patient, but it was all such valuable information that was like so critical to the treatment plan. And it really helped us just figure out, okay, what first and what is our approach going to be? And then if we see X, we're going to do this, if we see Y, we're going to go this direction. And, you know, and I know that's like in a perfect world and we don't all get to do that all the time, but it's just like the beautiful, you know, perfect world scenario that lives in my brain. And I'm like, if we can all just do that, that would be great. But that is nice that you're able to collaborate. So do you have a lot of those professionals available? Like, you know, accessible, I should say, you know, where you work now?

Yes. I'm super lucky to have other pediatric PTs and OTs and at our hospital, our OTs and our speech therapists do feeding. So I'm able to do co treatments with them and we can get more eyes on the little ones and again, have different perspectives and just all learn from each other and grow and make sure that all of our patients get the best care.

I love that. I love it. Well, I'm so excited for you. I mean, like, you're so early on in your career, but like, you're so far already just because you really jumped in and kind of figured out, like, hey, I want to learn more about this. And that's really allowed you, I think, to step further into this space probably, like, even though you're what you're two and a half years, like out of school now, out of grad school. Yeah. I would say you, like, I feel like your skills, because of the populations you work with, could arguably be, you know, in the pediatric feeding space and other, you know, other spaces you've worked in could arguably be more advanced than someone who's been an SLP for 10, 12, 15 years just because of the exposure and the mentorship and the coursework and the patients you've had. And, you know, and I think that's what we also need to kind of recognize and appreciate in the field as well. Because I think that, you know, it used to be very ageist, where it's like, Well, I have 15 years of experience, so I'm superior to you. And I was like, chop that off right now. Like, none of that. We don't have that here. No, like, it's not a competition, number one. Number two, just because you've been in a field longer doesn't mean that you have more experience in a given area. I just, I love making things more accessible so that, you know, opportunities like what you've had, being able to step into peat feeding so early in your career are there and you can really choose, like, hey, do I want to do this or do I want to go a different direction and have that information accessible? So I get so excited when I feel like when I see graduates from the chorus and you guys are peat feeding therapists and like, I know you do other feed work too, but, like, it's so cool to see the evolution.

Yeah. And I'm so thankful for the course. I mean, I think the timing was perfect and I think it was just meant to be. And yeah, I couldn't be happier where I am.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us and all of your, you know, thoughts and advice, even for other therapists who are newer. I mean, this really applies to, like, any space. You know, it's not just peat feeding. It's the kind of advice that whether you're a new therapist or you want to go into a new specialty within the field, I just think it's, it's good to hear and to like, have that encouragement from, like, you know, someone who's done it and has lived through it and, you know, and you're kind of on the other side of it now and you're like, okay, like, I'm still learning. But yeah, like, I can do this. So congratulations. It's awesome.

Well, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure to be here.

Thanks so much for joining me.

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