Episode 212: The Soma Appliance: Balancing The Body, Calming The Nervous System

Hi and welcome to episode 212 of the Untethered podcast. Today we have Dr. Jasmine Elmore joining us. Welcome back to the podcast, Dr. Elmore. After practicing pediatric dentistry at the highest level, Dr. Elmore had a career transition inspired by debilitating shoulder pain and a visit to a very special physical therapist where other PTs failed to provide relief of her symptoms. A friend's referral letter to someone with a deep understanding of chronic pain, stress, poor sleep and whole body connection. Once he began to speak about the connection between teeth, breathing and the nervous system, Dr. Elmer completely dove headfirst into new learning. After studying with osteopaths, PTs, ENTs, airway dentists, sleep physicians and other allied health professionals to better understand the whole body, she met her newest mentor, Dr. Joe de Cruz, a functional dentist in Australia created an appliance called SOMA that he has successfully used for decades to treat TMD sleep issues, poor posture, neurological disorders, headaches and a host of other issues. As a primary US provider for the Soma appliance, Dr. Elmore has a new practice that focuses on stress reduction, cranial balance and resolving dental distress syndrome as defined by Dr. A.C. fonder. Quick disclaimer all information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Holly Balkan. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the Orofacial myofunctional Therapy, Airway tether, Dural tissue and Pediatric Feeding Therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019, thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode. Remember to listen with correct oral rest posture, tongue up, lips closed, teeth apart, breathe through your nose. Let's get started.

Foreign.

Jasmine welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited to chat today.

I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

You're welcome. And you know, for those who maybe don't know, you were podcast episode 118 the guest with me back in July July 5, 2021 is when that one aired and we were talking at that point about your journey with your own Orofacial myofunctional disorder and how that was shaping your career, your dentistry career. And I know that since then there have been some changes and some big things you just launched in the last week. So I would love to talk about that today and find out where you're at with basically almost the past two years since we last actually recorded. I'd love for you just to share what's been going on. Where are you today? And we're going to dive deep into a topic, topic that everyone wants to hear about in a few minutes.

So, yeah, there's so much to say and never enough time when we sit together. You know how we like to chit chat. So I'll just say that if I remember correctly from the episode, I had just closed and transitioned my airway focused practice and was just on a search for what, what I really wanted to do. The appliance I was using didn't necessarily meet my high expectations for what I wanted it to do. So just taking a step back and figuring out how I wanted to incorporate all the things that I knew, I just went on. I like, I like how you said journey because I went on a personal journey with my own OMD and a bunch of other things and then the professional journey, and it landed me to an appliance called the Soma appliance that I actually was hinting to you in that episode that I knew a little bit about, but not enough at that time to really want to, you know, shake up the industry with it. But so, yeah, so here we are now, almost two years later, and a lot of successes, a lot of failures. And you know, I love your podcast because you like to highlight not always the successes, but the failures. So, you know, it feels good to be like, yeah, a lot of successes, a lot of failures. Not just be like, yeah, a lot of wins, but a lot of ups and downs. And happy to be here at this amazing place with this amazing appliance and, yeah, happy to talk more about it.

Awesome. Well, and when we were chatting before, you had mentioned something about like, you know, I could sit here and impress you with all my accolades and everything, but, you know, I forget what the second part of that was basically like. But you rather like, you know, share what you learned from your failures or something to that extent. And I love that because, you know, yeah, like so many of us have all these fancy letters after our names and I even sometimes go around like deleting some of them because I'm like, this doesn't identify me. And this is not, like, my mission. Like, I went on that journey for myself, to learn more, to dive deeper. And not necessarily because I wanted the Alphabet soup after my name, but really because I was just on that. I was on a journey. And I, like, feel like for my own information, for my own kids, for my patients, like, how, you know, I just. I want to learn. I want all the information so I can make my best informed decisions. But also, it's really, like, funny, funny. Not funny, right? We've all had failures. But you say, like, it's sharing what you've learned. Sharing, like, the trials and tribulations, sharing, like, what you've been through. Because I'm about to, like, you know, like, once I make it through this current business period where we have, like, this whole back end thing, that's just, like, a lot. I'm gonna have some podcast episodes from a business standpoint where I share the. A lot with the world. Because I think that, you know, that's. That's the real. That's the real, real, right? That is what people want to hear. They want to know, like, what have you. Where have you been? What have you learned? What didn't work? Why are you where you are today? And I think that those journeys and sharing those stories are really the most impactful and the most powerful so people can really understand, like, that transition that we went through or that transformation, if you will, that we went through from, like, who we were before to who we are now. So I'm excited because I know if I'm correct, and I might be totally incorrect, but are you, like, one of the first providers to bring this SOMA appliance to the United States? Is that.

So I'm not the first provider to bring it to the U.S. i actually learned about it in 2019 from my mentor, Dr. Barry, who I think I'm pretty sure we mentioned, at least in my bio, as my airway fairy godfather. One of his patients, if I remember the story correctly, one of his patients researched on her own and found out about the SOMA. This was back in 2018, 2019.

Okay.

And approached him like, hey, I've spoken to the dentist who created it in Australia. And he said, he's willing to teach you everything. Are you willing to learn it? And Dr. Berry has his own, like, integrative center of Education there in Clifton, New Jersey. And as his, like, you know, apprentice, every course Jazz is a course coming up, I'd sign up and take this course. And so I remember him telling me, like, hey, there's this thing called The Somali, the guy who created his name is Joe. He's great. Take this course. Of course, like all the others, the homeoblock course and all the other courses I signed up, that was 2019 and Dr. Berry had maybe three to five patients in the soma. And I remember of the two day course that I only really understood like 2 to 3% of the whole course. It just was so above like my knowledge and understanding and it was so out there and I just couldn't. And he's one of those people, Dr. De Cruz, he's a smaller and I'm, I'm five four and I'm taller than he is. He's a smaller in like size, but huge personality. Indian man. And so a lot of his philosophies about like chi and eastern and I just didn't, I wasn't that kind of student yet. So most of it I just, it missed me and I, I knew he was impacting people, but I didn't really see how I could fit into the impact. So Dr. Berry gets the credit for being the person that introduced me to soma back in 2019. And there have been some other dentists here and there who were interested in SOMA back in the day. But I think like me, you're learning so many other different things that it can become a challenge to focus all of your energy on one thing. Yeah, and some life things brought me back to SOMA years later. And then when I put all of my energy into learning it, like years to learning it and then traveling to Australia and watching him chair aside with patients and being able to ask them the tough questions and be able to ask him the tough questions and really deep dive into it on that level. Then I understood it and then it was like, okay, so he says I'm the only US doctor that has ever understood his work. So that's a big honor for him to say that about me. But it was a multi year process. It wasn't like, I love to say I'm a genius and I figured it out in like an hour. But no, I love that though.

And I think that, you know, I've been reading some things that you sent me and I've been following your account and kind of watching like what's happening, what's going on and I'm like, I really just want to put myself on a plane and like fly to you and have this whole process. But I'm like, first I need sleep, which you know, impacts our nervous system. I know we'll get there. Like I really need to clean up what's going on in the back end of my business and kind of make, you know, everything automated and functioning really well again before I can start doing things like that. So I'm a couple months from now. A couple months, Halle. But also with my nose surgery, I was like, I wanted to wait till like one year post op just to kind of make sure like everything was back to extensive homeostasis in terms of just all the changes that my body experienced and healing and everything over the past year with my septoplasty and rhinoplasty and nasal swell body and turbulent reduction, all that fun stuff. So yeah, so I'm like highly interested for myself but. But could not tell anybody like a sentence about it because I would totally not do it justice. So I want you to pretend like, you know, because I think a lot of people are never going to have heard about this before this episode. And so I would love for you to share like if you had like a new person walking in who. And they were like, I don't know what this is, I just have been told I need it. Or I'm just, you know, what is it? Like, what is the best way that you can describe that to a new person?

Yeah. So I usually. And first of all, I'm ready for you when you come visit. I have the perfect restaurant where I want to take you and everything. So anywho, I digress. But usually what I do is I tell people that even though I'm a dentist and even though I am this airway focused dentist and aren't all this stuff, I came into all of this on the patient side of things and I came into all of this from the physical therapy, the physiotherapy, the PTs out of things. So my PT, Mike Vita, when I met him after seeing all these other pts that didn't work and all that most I think they know that story from the last episode. But Mike was all about my body needed balance. Like I was that kid that could catch a ball. Like if somebody threw something right now I could catch it. I have like elite hand eye coordination, but I also could trip over a box that's clearly right there in the middle of the room. And somehow my brain just the spatial awareness, which was always weird because like, how can you play every sport and be really great but then have no spatial awareness? But it was the spatial awareness, it was the balance. It was the fact that even though I was bodybuilding at the time and working out seven days a week in the super Fit not in this body, but the super fit person. I had all these aches and pains, and I was always in pain, but bared that pain really well and just like, you know, went to treat it. But I was in pain all the time. And Mike said, you need balance. You have an asymmetry. Your hips are forward, your head's forward. Your body has this, like, one leg longer than the other. The shoulder pain, the back pain, it was all related. And Mike was like balance and nervous system with breathing kind of in the middle. And so, because that was how I, before I knew what growing a maxilla was and all of that, that was where I was. And so for Mike and the pts, they're all about having an oral appliance that can go in your jaw, balance both sides of your jaw, and make changes to things like ticks. And so, like, people with Tourette's were having relief with these appliances that I was learning at the beginning with Mike from pts. So I knew you could put something in the mouth and impact the way the body, like Parkinson's, these disorders of tone and muscle twitching could be impacted by something in the teeth. So that was the beginning. I knew nothing about jaw size and airway and all that yet. So I like to tell that story because when it comes to the soma, when I talk to people, it's about balance and nervous system with breathing in the middle. So it was able to branch together with Mike, what I was learning with him with the pts, because the pts were like, why would you grow the jaws? Why would you make the jaws bigger? This isn't about the teeth. But then also, as I learned airway dentistry, I knew, well, it is something to do with the teeth. As far as you do need wide jaws, because a palate that's unfolded makes you breathe better. So, like, these two worlds, I was in two different worlds and hearing two different messages. And at the beginning, I would resist against the pts, like, no, I believe the dentist. And then there'd be days that the patient, Jasmine, would be like, well, no, this balance stuff works. And then one day I was like, well, what if you stop saying no? And you started saying yes? There has to be a yes. There has to be a thing that can, like, both of these camps can agree to. And that was the soma. And so it's really about balancing both sides of your body and calming the nervous system down. And that when the nervous system is calm, digestion happens, sleep happens. Like, real rest and relaxation happens, and the real success happens. Because for me, I could achieve lots of accolades and be successful. But I never really could enjoy it because my mind was always too many different places and too many different times. I never could be off. I'd be on vacation with my fiance on a beach, on my phone, trying to figure out how I could do work. And she's like, what are we? Are we relaxing or are we relaxing? Like what's happening? And I just couldn't, even if I wanted to, I could never turn it off. And it was. My nervous system was just wrecked. And so like I wasn't ready for myo. The muscles don't respond well when your nervous system is wrecked. My gut, I could do all the things and eat all the things, but I couldn't figure out that if I'm scarfing down lunch between patients and I'm in this frenzy with staff and parents, it's just too much. The nervous system has to really be one of the high priorities. And so it's an appliance, the soma that focuses on the nervous system. And that's what I love most about it is that it's a nervous system focused appliance. So that's how I describe it to most people. And then I think you were interested in something I posted about the psychological elements of it because Dr. Diamond, Dr. D' Cruz's mentor, who was a really well known psychologist before he passed away a few years ago, he was really obsessed with how the way the body and the mind connect together. And he used to always say, neurology is your thoughts and your actions. That's how he defined neurology. And I listened to a lecture that he did in the 90s and he said, your thoughts and your actions are your neurology and your neurology are your thoughts and your actions. And your neurology is impacted by your dental architecture. And as long as you have faulty dental architecture, you always have faulty neurology. And I was just thinking about all the, gave me thousands of patients that I've seen over time and the things that they struggled with that they talk about. Of course, never the first day of treatment, but like as treatment would go on, that the mental elements, the psychological elements, we only tackle those with like psychology. A psychiatrist, you have depression or anxiety, like go see this person or you have a body ache, you got an arm issue, go see an arm person. But like, what if there's a connection between the two worlds? And Dr. Decruz said the head and the body are connected right here at this, at the jaw. And it's like what connects the unconscious and the subconscious. And I got chills and was like, whoa, this. It's all coming together finally.

So, yeah, no, I love that because when you were talking a minute ago and you were saying, like, you're having, like, this internal struggle between, like, the PT that it's like, okay, but, like, also, why. Why can't we integrate this? Like, why can't we bring these worlds together? Why can't we address both? Because also, shouldn't we, like, shouldn't the question be, like, why aren't we taking this approach? You know, and that. And that, I think, speaks to what I've said many times on the podcast. Just, traditional medicine treats the human body in silos. And however, the human body does not function in silos, everything is so highly integrated that, yes, we need specialists, and, yes, we need people who are really good at their craft, but also we need specialists who have the ability to talk to each other about a patient, which I know that's a whole different conversation because modern medicine and insurance doesn't allow for that. So that's. That's, you know, different conversation for a different day, you know, but it's. That's why we see, I feel like, a lot of these movements towards, like, more integrative health centers and people moving away from taking insurance and moving towards these more holistic approaches and appliances and things where everything's kind of like, enough already. Like, enough. Like, it. Stop slapping the band aid on. Like, let's get to the root of the issue here, and let's also tackle it from every angle. You know, it's like with my. Myself and my own kids, we've gone through addressing the nasal airway. We've gone through addressing other parts of the airway. With one of my kids, we've gone through expansion journeys because we knew we needed to have that, you know, the hard tissue addressed. We've gone through the soft tissue treatment with myo. We've gone through. Now we're working on food. Like, we all just had a done in December. We got the results, I got all the stuff, and I'm like, we've got to, like, hunker down and start doing this. And, you know, and it's. My eyes have been even been opened up because, you know, you hear about people walking around doing, like, all these, like, cleanses and, you know, not for, like, weight loss, but for, like, general health. Right? And so people are like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna, you know, cleanse. What is it that everybody gets these days? I want to say worms, but that's not what I'm thinking of.

Think about the parasites.

Parasites? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you people, like, think, oh, we live in this, like, developed country. Like, that's something that happens in third world countries. No, no, no. Parasites are everywhere. And everybody, you know, even the doctor here, which I love because she's, like, a really good combination between, like, Eastern and western. She's like, oh, no. Like, my efforts, like, everyone in my office does at least an annual parasite cleanse. Because, like, you. You just have to. Your gut will not work. If your gut's not working, your brain will not work. And I was just like, I love you so much. But then I learned that you can't just go into, like, a parasite cleanse. You actually have to kind of prime the pump, if you will. Like, you have to get your system ready and open the pathways to release it. Otherwise, what most Americans apparently are doing, they just go right into the cleansing is. And this is so disgusting. But they are literally opening. They're killing off parasites. So it's opening all the junk and then it's recycling through the body because the pathways weren't open to actually get rid of those toxins. And so, like, you literally, we were literally about to spend a month going through, like, opening the pathways and getting our bodies ready through supplements, dietary changes, like, things along those lines to then move into the parasite cleanse phase, to then move into, like, whatever comes after that.

And.

But. And that's the whole thing. You know, I think that it's very overwhelming for a lot of people. And I always tell everyone, I'm like, you got to figure out what works for you, and you got to start somewhere, but also, if it's not working, hit pause and figure out why and what may be the next best step. And, like, so far, like, I've been the guinea pig of my family. I did an entire training in December where I was like, airway first, and, hey, this was my journey, and this is what I wish I did, but what I actually did. And this is, you know, this is why now I recommend people not necessarily follow my step one, step two, step three, but follow a journey based on the patient and the symptoms present. And, like, what you're saying, like, you're not going to get great results if your nervous system is shot. You know, like, we got to really kind of hone it all in. So I love that this appliance can have, like, that impact for a patient. And I guess now I'm just sitting here going, like, well, how soon? Like, how quick does it start, you know, does it start helping the nervous system? Is it sort of like a gradual thing, you don't really notice? Or is it like you wear it in a weekend? You're like, wow, I'm sleeping better. Like, like, what are people saying?

Yeah, you said so much good stuff there. No, I mean, I just wanted to say that, you know, I was. I was on a podcast the other day, and we were talking about how patients get frustrated. We're talking about people getting overwhelmed. And the funny thing is, it's like that's a part of the process, right? It's like, I know what restaurant to bring you to when you come for your soma, because I tried 25 other terrible restaurants, not going to name them, but it's like, without that own personal, like, going through that process, it's frustrating as hell, but it's a part. Like, it's a part of it, right? Like, you have this amazing doctor that's talking about parasites. I'm sure you have other doctors you've gone to that were just a miss that you just nicely just excused yourself out of the back door. So it really is a process and it's a learning yourself. Like, I asked Dr. D' Cruz and I have all this stuff on video, so, like, little clips will get launched on the new Instagram. So I'm excited. But when he picked me up from the airport, I just was like, can I just hit record and, like, play some stuff? So, you know, he's talking while he's driving and just talking about different topics. And I asked him, like, where do you start? Because it's the number one thing people ask me all the time. If I had to start somewhere, where do you start? And he said, you start with education and understanding of the patient. And I'm like, that's not a good enough answer, Dr. Degree. But it's the truth. He says that everybody should be learning from each other. So he says, I learned from my patients as more as they learn about the soma from me. So for me, when I understood that, it made the soma make even more sense because he tests the whole body with it. So when the soma goes in, when you ask how quickly it works, you put the soma in after it's adjusted. And actually let me back up before you put the soma in. We do applied kinesiology testing. So I do strength test, I do muscle squeeze tests. We squeeze the scm, we squeeze the traps, we squeeze the hand. And then all that stuff is tracked. Mood, energy, sleep, stress, and strength. Are tracked. Then with the soma in, we do those same tests again right then and there. So Beth was just here last night. We did the strength test. The left arm tested strong, the right arm tested weak. I had to take the soma out and go back to the drawing board and I'm adjusting again and we're working and I'm getting her jaw to translate and we're working. Then after about 30 minutes, I put the soma back in. We did the strength test. Left side, right side, testing well, her head turned more on both sides. She felt more relaxed. It has to happen pretty immediately. Now the thing is always, like I tell people all the time, weight loss is easy. It's staying with the weight loss that's hard. Pain relief is easy. I can get you out of pain, it's keeping you out of pain. So what it does over time is of course keep you to those results that you get pretty immediately. But you're going to feel more relaxed and calm immediately. How quickly that translates into sleep has a lot to do with how you breathe during the day, how you perceive different things, your nutrition, different other elements. But for my patients who are really big into myo, really big into nutrition and diet, really big into decreasing their stress, they get results really quickly. Patients like me who are hard headed, who don't do their exercises, who spend all this money and become a myotherapist and then don't do the mild because they're too busy and working three jobs.

Those people feel like I didn't always do my own, my kids, my own homework and I own the practice. And it was my therapist, it was treating them so like I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I'm perfect. You know, this is really life stuff.

This is real life stuff. So like for me, what I love about it is that you just put it in your mouth and go to sleep. And changes are happening slowly and gently with the nervous system. Nothing drastic, nothing hurting the teeth that are doing what they do, you know, the bite is changing, how it changes as my body allows. And so those things happen a little bit slower for folks like me, but they're still happening. So the results happen as quickly or as slowly as the body wants, which is not the answer that people want to hear, but it's the truth.

It's really, that's what it needs to be.

You know, we live in a society.

Where everyone expects immediate change and that's just not how life actually works. And I think that's why we have so much Illness in the United States of America. Because, like, of all the things we've talked about, all the stress, all the, you know, everyone is in fight or Flight 24, and, like you said, sitting on the beach, they're addicted to that phone because their body is just like, what now? What now? What else can I be doing? What am I missing? What's going on? Like, if I put my phone on for five minutes, like, something's gonna blow up my face. Like, I mean, you know, it's. We're not. It's not. I mean, sometimes it does, but it's not. And it's. Yeah, we are all walking around like a bunch of, like, you know, wrecked humans that are gonna be taken over by AI bot AI bots soon who are gonna figure us out. So we all really need to get our shit together.

It's true. Nothing. Nothing you said. Like, as the kids say, what a. What a lie. What a lie. Nothing you said was false there. Yeah. And, I mean, I. I needed some assistance and just calming the nervous system. And I wasn't going to take medications because medications are just a quick fix. And. And, you know, to be honest, when I talked to my doctor about it, she was like, there's nothing wrong with you. You're not like, like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, okay, never mind. You don't even, like, see the problem here. You. You know, I had upper airway resistance syndrome. And the doctor's like, okay, you don't have sleep apnea. I'm like, okay, but are we just going to wait until it turns into sleep apnea? Which is exactly what happened. But it's like, you know, the system just set up where, like, you said, this is our norm. And for me, I want it to be the phrase that's been getting a lot of, like, excitement in my DMs, is being a warrior in a war and a gardener in a garden. I was a warrior in a garden, and I was a gardener in a war. So, like, at work, I was avoiding all the difficult conversations. Right. It just was when it was time to make a tough decision, I just couldn't. That's just realistic. And then when it was time to, like, you know, turn down at the end of the night, I'm like, you know, come on. My fiancee is like, hey, it's 10pM Chill time. Let's start to remember you're with Campbell. You're winding down. You know, you have a night routine. You have a sleep optimization. And I'm like, you know, it was ridiculous. I was. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time within my own body. And I just want it to be, you know, calm when I needed to be calm and turned up when I needed to be turned up. You know, I didn't want to just be sedated. I needed. You needed this harmony between the two. And. And that's really what it's designed to do because of this Dental Distress syndrome, which I need to send you a book. It's somewhere around here because I got it just for you, but I have your book. Dental Distress Syndrome. I'll find it. And, you know, when you read the book and you start to see the science behind this stuff that's been there for years. I mean, the 1973 Nobel Peace Prize was about dentistry and dental architecture and. And how it impacts the whole body from gut to brain to feet to scalp. And it's like they were talking about this in 1973, and it won a Nobel Peace Prize. And yet still we just, you know, I don't know. But I digress. But, yeah, so that's kind of the story of how we just got this excitement about the soma. And I've been really lucky as a kid. My mom has always kept me at the cutting edge of stuff like fashion. We would be starting a fashion trend, and everybody be like, that's weird. And then, like a year later, everyone was doing it. Like, I talked to my mom about mouth tape five years ago, and she's like, tape your mouth. I'm not doing that. And then, like, maybe six or seven weeks ago, she called me like, I'm watching Good Morning America, and guess what? They're talking about mouth tape. You've been talking about mouth tape for what feels like five years. Like, mom, I have been talking about it.

Really accurate, 100%.

So, like, when I really started getting in with Dr. D' Cruz on the soma, not. I mean, people were like, well, I've never heard of it. I'm like, well, this little Indian man is 70 years old and wants no fanfare and no popularity. And his whole literal brand, his whole thing on earth is helping people, is being a martyr. So, of course, if that's who he is, unless somebody like me takes it and goes, luxury stress relief, we're going to make this thing explode. It's not going to happen. You know, and we had some tough conversations about, like, Dr. D', Cruz, this is like a. This is a big thing. Like, this is going to really, when this comes to America, this is going to be A big thing, the way I'm trying to do it, social media now and all this stuff. And he's like, what's Instagram? You know, like, it's. It's just a different time. And with his personality. So it didn't have that popularity. And then this article just came out this week. Perfect timing for this episode. And so now my DMs flooded with people and my mom's like, yet again, you were on something before everyone else. But I just think God just works it out that way for me, where I just seem to be like, I'm not dissuaded by, like, popular if it's not popular. I'm actually looking at the core of what a thing is, and I find it cool or interesting. I'm hopping on it and learning about it.

So, yeah, but I love that. So I also think that that speaks to you as a person, because if, you know, I. There's different, like, levels of energy, there's different ways that people are influenced by either people externally versus being internally, you know, influenced and driven. And I've noticed that there are certain people in my environment who are highly externally driven. And someone's like, jump. And they're like, how high? Or, oh, you know, they're like, oh, hey, let's go here. And then they hear from, like, you know, a commercial comes on the tv and they're like, war in this place and this is happening. Like, we can't go there. I mean, it's just like every little thing, right? It kind of. It changes their immediate thought and they can't really think for themselves. Whereas, like, I feel like people who are making the biggest change in the world are, you know, I would say, like, head down, blinders on. And that's not necessarily always the case, but we're able to kind of see things in a different way. It's like, we are here for our own mission. And when I got really clear on that back in 2019 for myself, when I went to a training, right? I go to this training for, like, oh, I'm going to learn how to build my business online. I already took the guys course. And here we go. And I was sitting in that room and I was just like, slow slap after slap in the face of, like, holy cow, Halle. Like, you're not getting into this because you want to make money. Yeah, you want money. Like, money's good. You need money to live. That's a healthy thing. And everyone should have in their top, like, three values. But also, you're actually driven by, like, you're wanting to create this, and it feels so heavy and big right now because it's a mission and it's going to cause some really great change, and it's going to impact the health of pediatric patients who are sitting on waiting lists that can't get access to feeding therapy that can't get. Which then causes this whole, you know, impact snowball effect of other issues that develop because they are not getting proper nutrition, their sleep is impacted, their airways impacted. I didn't know any of that at the time. Like, yes, I was in the mild world already, but I had no idea, like, how greater, how much larger this mission was than me. I knew it was big, but it's continued to impress me, like, over time or the past now, like, since March 2020. So. Well, actually July of 2019. But the course first launch, March 2020, I'm like, we're about to launch it for the 11th time, and I get just as excited now as I did like, back then, because it's all about the mission and all about helping people look at things through a holistic lens. And no one else is talking about that. Giving people permission to identify the way they want to identify. Giving people permission to learn the skill they want to learn. With mentorship taught in a variety of different ways for different learning styles. Like, I'm like, this has got to be the way of the future. And I feel like the more that people start to step into this openness and allow themselves to hear, like, what people are putting out there, the more they'll be able to start to, like, make decisions for themselves, number one, because they'll have more education, right? But number two, the more will also start to move toward a more holistic treatment pathway for patients in general. Because I. I feel a huge shift right now. There is a massive shift. Like, the world kind of did went through this whole cleanse, right, in the past so many years. And that sounds like a really bad way to put it, but one of my mentors always said the world's world kind of cleansed itself, and now it's kind of like evolving and starting to. It's like a rebirth, in a sense, where people are kind of going, huh, yeah, maybe I should do things differently or, huh, I went through this experience and now, like, that's changed the way I see things. And this is in so many different aspects of life. But I love seeing it in the medical space because, you know, what I'm noticing is so many people who would have thought, like, I was a complete quack Three years ago, they're all over here. Like, Howie, like, what you got coming next? Like, come on, let's go.

What about this? What about that?

And I'm like, where'd you come from? So fun, you know, and it's, it's opening my eyes to more things. But it's also, it all comes back to why can't we all work together? Why can't we bring this marriage of Eastern, Western, you know, medicine together? Why can't we, instead of saying, is it this or that, why can't we go, what does this patient need? And you said something before that. I was like, oh, yes, like, if nobody walks away with anything else in this episode but that one thing, we have to look at the patient sitting in front of us, we have to listen to them and that's going to direct what we do next. And that was one of the biggest things that I like, really harped on when I did my own training on my own case and basically told people what I learned. Here's my failures, here's what I learned from them. But the number one thing we always have to do when we're working with patients is find out from them why they're here and then ask them to expand on that and continue to ask questions. Not leading questions, more open ended or just probing a little bit, giving them the space, because people are not used to that. People are not used to providers giving them time to talk or asking them questions and not like trying to feed them information.

Right.

And I don't know what they need until I sit there. And this is why I have grown men in tears bawling in front of me. You know, we're like, I was hopeless. I've been to 12 other people and like, I'm so embarrassed and crying. I'm like, no, like, it's okay. You know, this is helpful to the process. Like, this has to be a part of the process. This needed to happen because now we know where to go next. Right. And so I love that, you know, that kind of focus of like listening to the patient, learning from the patient, finding out what they need and, you know, that's going to drive the treatment plan really more than anything else and figure out like what the next best step is. So, yeah, I just had to kind of like pinpoint that because it's, it's probably the most critical skill that most people don't have.

Yeah, well, that brings me to a good point. Gotta hype you for a minute. My friends call me the ultimate hype woman. But I Just speak the truth. So I, you know, I maybe I just around the most amazing people and you know, so anywho, your course, what I love about it, I haven't taken it, but I have heard through the grapevine from people I trust. If you can correct me if I'm wrong, but your brand is about you go to school, whether that be hygiene. I guess those hygiene miles can take the SLP stuff too. Maybe I'm wrong, but the point is your SLP and then you have this paper, but you don't know so much stuff, right? You're missing the training, you're missing the skills, you're missing how to help your patient be a healer in their own household. Because really our job is to engage someone else's personal will to be. Well, it shouldn't be someone coming to Dr. Elmore and Dr. Elmore having all the understanding when they spend 247 in that body. It's about them and bringing understanding for them, right? So as a provider, Feed the Peas came about because people had this gap in knowledge and you wanted to bring curriculum, coaching and community together. So one great thing about Dr. D' Cruz and what I've learned from him in these, what since 2019, all these years, is that you need knowledge. And knowledge takes time. Knowledge doesn't happen in a weekend course. And there is a very disturbing trend where providers are being gifted. Well, you're a doctor, so great. So we're going to just gift you with a weekend course of knowledge and then just go out and do. And that's very noble because you got to do stuff, right? But also you have to know stuff too. And so being equipped with that knowledge, which is crazy for me to say that to you, because our last episode, I mean, I had an airway mini residency experience. I was in classes with PTs and ENTs and sleep docs and breathing, all this stuff. And then when I really started having intimate conversations with Dr. D', Cruz, I realized I don't really know that much, but I've got all of these papers because I don't really understand how do I engage someone's personal will to be well, how do I get my patient excited about the treatment? How do I have empathy when they can't get through the treatment or do their exercises like we just finished talking about a couple minutes ago? And I could do all of that in pediatric dentistry, but I need to do that in airway dentistry because it's a piece of me that I want to bring into the new stuff. And so it's like the knowledge and the skills. And I just had to pay. Patient last week on my virtual consultation tell me that she went to a different provider. This was her second. But you're talking about grown men crying. This was her second session. She's bawling. And she was telling me how she asked the doctor, like, two questions and he didn't know any. Like, he didn't have the answers. And she asked me, like, 100 questions, and I answered them all because I can't shut up. But she's like, you know, you actually, like, know what you're talking about. And I'm thinking, doesn't everyone know what they're talking about? But it wasn't until she brought that to my attention. Then I'm like, wait a minute. I guess everyone doesn't know what they're talking about. And of course, it would be scary as a patient to navigate these waters when not everybody really knows. And I think we all have good intentions, but you've got to do a little bit. It's a little bit more than just intention. It's like actually bringing the excellence to the table. So everything I've heard about feed the peds, and I think while we connected and wanted to do an episode years ago, was because we really resonate around this. Let's bring people together with a knowledge and understanding that can help someone else have a knowledge and understanding. And when you take a step back and you realize how much more you need to know, embracing that and then moving forward to know the next stuff, not just going well, I'm Dr. Elmore, so there's nothing you can tell me about this topic because I studied with this person. That person. This person was like, no, the patient teaches you more than anything else. Like, I learned the most from the difficult cases than I ever do from the easy ones. If you open your ears up to listen, it's like the learning is there. So I 100% agree with everything that you said. And I just had to add that because bringing these knowledge, this knowledge and skill set to the table for many and what you do and then in what I do, maybe two different things, but it's so very similar in the way that we really want to go about it and how you impart the message of your podcast and with your community with the Feed the Peas and what I'm trying to do with building the brand with the Soma appliance.

So I love that. I mean, and you nailed it, like, and that's so basically in the beginning. It's funny. Funny, not funny. But like, I was like, oh, I'm going to create a MYO course. Because everyone was saying to me, like, I'm taking my courses and I just, I spent all this money, I leave, I'm confused. I afford a course, I have no idea what to do next. I don't know how to assess the patient or if I know how to assess. I don't know how to treatment plan. I don't know where to go with the treatment after I create a treatment plan. Like, what exercises do I use? And everyone thinks it's like 12 weeks and these exercises and this, that and the other. I'm like, no, you gotta look at the patient sitting in front of you. That's what's going to tell you. And I was like, why is an, you know, like you said, I just assumed that everybody and took information like I did. So even though I'm ADHD and I have my own special ways of learning, I also realized one of the things that like, I'm very, very skilled at is like, and it takes me a long time to do this, it doesn't come easily to me. But I can take information, I can integrate it upon hours and hours and hours and hours of doing it, and then I can make it much more simpler for other people to like intake and understand. And I was like, okay. So that's one of the reasons why I was like, I feel like I have to take what I've done and made sense for myself and kind of give that to other people. Because I'm just hearing people are struggling and what's the point of even taking this course if you can't go help your patients, right? So that kind of talks about what you're, what you're saying, right? So then I, you know, I joke that like one of my good friends and colleagues basically came to me in July or August of 2019. She's like, hey, we really need a pee feeding course. Like, none of the schools are really teaching that.

I was like, no.

She was like, well, I mean, if you're not going to do it, I'll just, I'll just go ask somebody else. I was like, she knows like how to get into my head, right? I was like, you can't say that to me. So I was like, let me, let me sleep on this, right? So the next day I come back and it was like that competitive side of me that was like, well, someone's going to do. It's got to be me. I was like, but this feels heavy. And I'm not like I'm not the expert in all things feeding. Right. I have a very niche component of the airway myo taught as it applies to, like, the birth of five kiddos and then, like, mayo beyond that. So I was like, I can do this, but I need people, like, I need other people to come help me do this so they can bring their expertise and we can come together and create this, like, holistic course that really starts to integrate all the things. And I was like, oh, okay, now I'm excited. And that's where, like, yes, that was born. On the whole premise of we don't get this in grad school. This is the grad school course that you never got but that everybody needs to have. And so that was very exciting. And then after that, kind of evolved, you know, everyone. I started this, my own membership thing. And everyone's like, hallie, like, are you going to create a mile course? And I was like, I mean, I said it was going to like, two years ago, but I don't really have time for that. And so then I was like, finally, like, okay, fine, I'll create a mile course course. Year after that, finally launched the mile course. Like, that was a labor of love. But I do love it. And it's. It's really interesting because one of the things that I teach, I try to be holistic. I try to be entertaining when I teach, but that's just also me. Like, I'm like, look, this is history. It's boring. Rather than fall asleep, like, let's be a little entertaining. Let's, you know, cut the crap out, get rid of the fluff, get to the stuff we actually need to know. The stuff that is gonna, like, help you understand this content. You can actually take it and you use it with your patients, right? So I do, I teach what I call, like, muscle informed exercises. And muscle informed exercises basically teaches you to look at the patient sitting in front of you. And when you do your assessment, you're looking at how the muscles, how. How the hard tissue and soft tissue working together. Like, what is there? I mean, it's a whole, you know, checklist of my eval stuff. Right? But at the end of the day, okay, we can all check box, we know dysfunction is present. That's good and great. You can't start one patient with the same exercise you start the next patient with, right? You can't send this person for an appliance or phone next to me, just like you might for that person. It really depends again, what one is, what is their goal? What are they struggling with what is their. What is the number one reason they came to you? And then, like, learning from them and understanding, like, we were just talking about, like, who is that patient? What are their needs? Not what is how we think they need. What do they think they need? And then how can I educate them? And you know what? When you take that kind of approach, they tend to trust you more. And then they tend to end up doing all the things that I would have wanted to do from the beginning. But it's kind of like. I'd say it's like, it's an art. There's this dance between art and science here where we have to remember that the person sitting in front of us is a human with a highly dysregulated nervous system, probably. So, like, let's not throw all the things at them, right? So, you know, that. That part just, you know, when I launched this course and I started to, like, realize that, you know, people are like, well, which exercise do I do first and which ones do I do before for? Next to me, I'm like, guys, like, please go back and rewatch this one section here. Like, that's, you know, there's some generalities that apply to, you know, everybody and kind of what we're working towards, but also, who is the human sitting in front of you? So I do think that, you know, yes, that all kind of came together. And then at a certain point, I looked back and one of my business mentors was like, hey, so, like, what is your, like, methodology? I was like, I mean, I've heard you guys talk about that, but, like, I don't know. I don't focus on, like, you know, like, I paid people to write my emails and to do my marketing and all this other stuff. Like, obviously, I sat with them. It was my voice. And, like, they put my voice into writing. Right. Because adhd, like, writing is the bane of my existence, but gotten better at it. But still hours upon hours, like, I just don't have the patience for it. So, you know, I'm sitting here and I'm like, Like, I don't know. I totally lost my train of thought. What was I saying?

You were talking.

Oh, right, my methodology. Yes, tell my methodology. So I was like, well, you know what? I was like, what I noticed because they're like, well, what is your methodology? Like, what is it that you're doing? Like, what are the pillars within your programs? And I was like, well, I didn't create this on purpose, but every single thing I teach, basically, it was like, One, I have this big movement right now that I just kind of called the elevation movement. Because my goal is to elevate other individuals to step into three things. One, the skill set they desire, the identity they desire, and to provide the mentorship they desire. I was like, in every single one of my programs integrates those three things. And I think that. But that's what sets me apart from so many other things out there. Because people promise mentorship, but they don't give it, or they promise it, and what they actually give is not really mentorship or, you know, like, every course has skill set, right? But skill set is only going to be so helpful based on where you are functioning today. Where is that nervous system and brain functioning today while your butt is in that seat? I would literally write down for, like, every single course. I went to, like, oh, three patients with this patient. I'm gonna try this with this patient. I'm do this next with this patient. And then I get back and I'm like, well, now what? And what about all my other patients? Like, I don't know how to apply. It just. It wasn't. It didn't make sense to me in a way that I could apply the information. So that was something that I was like, okay, this is kind of cool. Like, I didn't really realize that's what I was doing, but I. I noticed that that's what we needed. And I also think that my. You know, a lot of our industries will say, well, you can't call yourself this. You can't call yourself that. And I'm like, okay, don't say you're certified in something if you're not. Or don't call yourself an expert. But, like, if you can't call yourself pediatric feeding therapist, you can't call yourself a myofunctional therapist. You are not gonna. You're. You're telling your brain to shut down. Like, you're telling your brain, don't listen to any of this information that's about to come my way. Don't make sense of it. Don't integrate it. Don't apply it to your patients, because you're not a myofunctional therapist. So how dare you, Right? And I'm like, so I can't tell you how many people have come to me and said, like, thank you for giving me permission to call myself a pediatric feeding therapist or a myofunctional therapist. And I'm like, I didn't have to give you that permission. I'm happy that that was the catalyst for you. And you realized at that point that you could do that on your own. I was like, but you actually gave yourself permission. And again, that's the whole like internal versus externally, you know, referenced individuals were like, we are so a lot of us are highly impacted by people around us. And those are sometimes our mentors in this space who are basically knocking us down a level. So we never get up above them because, you know, we can only know enough to not surpass them. And I was like, I'm done with this, I'm done with this method in, you know, this is no more. I was like, patience should be the priority. And if you know more than me, I will feel like I did my job. At the end of the day, if you are more successful than me, you know more than me, your patients are being held. That will make me the happiest person in the world because that's the whole reason why I do what I do. Like, what's the point of teaching you 50 of the material or 75% of the knowing? Like, you need 150% of it, right? And then you need to take that and figure out what the next steps are for you. And so that's where like this whole thing kind of became like the whole elevation movement. And you know, I love people supporting each other. And so anywho, I love it.

I love. No, I, I love it. It really is like so needed in all of our professions really is putting the patient first, understand. And meeting people. What I took out of that is meeting people where they are because it just, you know, we can look at, like you said, all the dysfunction and give someone a list of things to fix. But it's like, if I'm not ready to fix all those things, it has nothing to do with money. It has, has to do with like, can you, are you willing? Are you able? Are you capable? Meeting people where they are and we sometimes have to, we catch ourselves because I know in training at least we bash. Like in the dental world, somebody doesn't brush two times a day. It's like throw them in jail. You know, it's like, what do you mean you don't floss? Oh my God. And it's like, well, wait a minute, let's, let's take a different approach. Let's chop this goal up into bite sized pieces and support this person so that they can make it to a level of improvement instead of bashing what they don't have or what they don't do. You know, somebody DM me asking about like, My own jaws and journey. I'm like, well, I'm. I'm in a journey right now. Not a finished product. Never claimed to be a finished product. I'm doing something that's meeting me where I am and is working with my body as. As I move forward.

So, and so, like, for you, like, what is your personal experience then? Been with the Soma, you know, it's.

It's been great. I actually, I'm probably not the best person to ask because I like to be in guinea pig mode. So Dr. D' Cruz told me at some point that, well, the way the soma would work is, like, if somebody didn't wear it, it would still work. And that stuck out in my brain because I'm like, how is that possible? Like in traditional dental, if I'm putting something in your mouth to make a change. Remember Jasmine, Dr. Elmore, making the change, you must wear it. But because the Soma works with your body, he's like, you know, you could wear it and then not wearing the changes stick. And I'm like, I must prove this theory. Yeah, so don't tell me that, because.

I'll be like, well, they said so if I only wear it like twice a week, I should get changes, right?

Yeah, exactly. So if any of my patients are listening, wear your. Wear your Soma. Let me get closer to the mic. Wear your Soma. Okay. But what I did was when I first started wearing it, I had really bad TMD. The TMD started in 2022, and I'm actually glad that that happened to me because we can talk about TMD all we want as providers, but, like, when you actually experience it for yourself. Yeah, I wasn't. My right masseter was in so much pain all the time, and I didn't have a provider that could do what I do to me. So Mike had offered to do dry needling and I keloid really easily. So I was thinking like, oh, my gosh, if he needles me, I may be pain, but then vanity. Like, I don't want the marks all over my face. Like, I have marks all over my back and my legs from dry needling with Mike over the years. So it just got really, really bad. I went to Australia. He fits me for my Soma, and I could only open barely two fingers. Like, I could open like two and, like, not even a third finger, which I couldn't eat a burger. I couldn't do anything. Maybe three weeks. I have it tracked. It was under three weeks, maybe two and a half weeks. Weeks I could open Four fingers. Wow. My pain in my masseter was gone and I went to visit one of my friends and he was complimenting me on my weight loss. Like, Jasmine, look at how much weight you lost. And I'm like, I actually didn't lose weight. It's the inflammation of my body going down because my face was so swollen and so puffy and I was in so much pain. And you didn't know that. Now I'm not in pain. I look totally different. I look alive now and healthy. So I have not. I did not wear myself because I wanted to test this theory. I'm like, well, Dr. Cruz is saying you don't wear it and it works. So I'm like, at a month of not wearing it just because I'm trialing it out again, this is not SOMA protocols. I just am a curious person that's like, you're gonna tell me it works.

I appreciate it.

So I can do four fingers and I have more my SOMA in a month. So things are improving now. Am I going to just continue not wear for the rest of the year? No. I'm just kind of toying around with it. But one of the things I noticed when I do wear it is I wear it during my appointments with Mike. So when we're doing our PT postural restoration focused therapy, I wear my appliance and the room feels brighter almost immediately. As far as my eyes feeling more open, my shoulders start to get even, my body just gets a calmness. It's weird to describe, but like, Mike notices it, so there's like an unbiased source. And I remember his excitement when I first wore it. And I'm like, hey, I got my soma. It's adjusted. He's like, are you sure? Let's. Let's test you and put it in. You ready? I'm like, if it doesn't work, like, you know, this is before I saw patients. I'm like, let's put it in. And his excitement of this has been a seven year journey for you to find this thing. You told me you were going to figure it out and you did. So it works really well. And right before our podcast, Beth messaged me and said that she woke up, her job, feels great with her new SOMA adjustments. So it really is designed to just get your body to calm down and feel great. Now I have another patient who things are a little twisted. It's a cranial appliance. Things are going to take a minute to unfold. And so she's in the first Three weeks. And I'm like, give it some time to unlock. My fiance got her appliance this weekend. So she's in her soma, living her best life. Better experience than I was in my soma. Low key, jealous. I'm like, you know, she's like, sleeping like a dream. We only end up sleeping, like, five hours last night. Not rich sleep. And I woke up kind of groggy, like, of course, the day of Allie's podcast. I feel a little bit. A little bit draining. I look over like, hey, Hart, how do you feel? She's, like, taking her soma. I feel wonderful. Like, darn, I gotta end my soma. Let me end my SOMA experiment now. She feels great. But, yeah, I mean, it changes by person, but. But as far as getting the pain to decrease, getting the strength to increase, you're getting that at the chair over there before you leave. So the patient's going to feel that improvement right there at the visit before they leave. And if they don't, I do not have it adjusted properly, and I gotta go back over to the adjustment box and start adjusting again. So it really does get some things unlocked pretty quickly. For me to have a TMD turnaround with as much pain as I was in in, like, three weeks. Weeks was incredible. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's. And I reached out to you because I noticed, like, I went to get my own dental cleaning just, you know, done. And I think that was November, December, whenever it was. And I. You were like, posting kind of like, you know, some elusive content. I'm like, all right, what is this? I need to know. I was, like, sitting in a dental chair and my. She has my mouth open, and I've never had trouble having keeping my mouth open for a dental cleaning before. And I was like, oh, like, the left TMJ is, like, feeling a little funny. It's not painful. But I'm like, I know enough. And I'm in. I'm in tune enough with my body to know that, like, if I don't do something, probably by, like, let's say, maybe the end of this year, I am probably headed into, like, a larger issue. Right? And, you know, I know about myself, like, I've got my Maxwells turned in on the upper left side. It's like I'm locked up. I've been in other appliances. I've had pri pts. You know, I've unlocked my body, like, while going through those processes and doing a lot of these tests you talked about, like, with my other appliance and Everything. And so this is all very familiar to me. And I can tell you it works like I know from the body. You know the response from the body when you're doing this type of integrative therapy along with, like, appliance work. I needed that in order to proceed with one of these other appliances. And it got me more space for my tongue, which was my ultimate goal at the time. I also, like, maybe wore it six to eight hours a day instead of the 14 they recommended and was in it for two years and then did Invisalign after and ended up closing up some. Some of the spaces that were opened. And I was like, okay, vanity One. And my airway clearly suffered for that. So.

And here's the thing, Dr. Du Cruz, not to cut you off, but that was a big thing about the SOMA for me, was like, okay, am I gonna change people's jaws? And then they go and do clear aligners, and it ruins. And he's like, no, no, no. I. I do this all the time. So I was like, okay, I'm going to Australia. And when I went to Australia, there were patients who were in the SOMA two or three years, and then they're in clear aligner therapy. Well, he has the clear aligner therapy set with SOMA principles. So their teeth are straightening, and they're not losing any of their two to three years worth of work. And so that's really what got Mike, my pt, excited, because he's like, the great thing about pt, it works, but the results for many don't stick and they don't last. So, like, how do you get the body to. Okay, we're teaching the body these things it needs to do. We're getting pain relief and resolution. But if it doesn't stick and last, then we probably need to get some of the dysfunction addressed in a way where things will last, not just making these nice changes. Wide jaws. And then, like, three to five years later, none of it lasted. So I'm glad you mentioned that, because that was one of the things that made this really, like, sexy to me. It was like, okay, wait a minute. Like, this is, like, lasting. And then you can just do clear aligners at the end with SOMA principles built in and not undo everything.

Yeah, I mean, one of my, like, a couple dental colleagues that I was presenting with were like, oh, yeah, well, just don't do the last two trays. I'm like, could you tell me that a month ago? Because I just. I'm like, that's really helpful to know today. Thank you very much. It's just like, okay, here we are. So I, obviously I don't wear the retainers because I feel like that locks me up at this point. And, yeah, so my teeth are shifting. Right. And so I think I finished that appliance. Well, actually I finished the clear aligners maybe around October of 2021. And I have not really worn my retain. The retainers or anything. Now I feel like the, you know, the space that I gained is still there for the most part.

Like, I have.

And I have a decent amount of space for my tongue up my palate. But when I wake up, sometimes I have scalping around my tongue because my tongue is clearly pushing forward. And so I'm kind of like, all right, what's up? Something about my airway is like, like kind of saying, hey, help me. But I also think that just based on my max law on one side, you know, things are getting disrupted, things are not functioning the way they should. And so that's. I'm like, all right, Holly, time. Let's go time. What's next on the agenda? And now that I've waited for, like my one year post op from my nasal surgery to kind of bring me back to that whole, whole homeostasis, like you said, too, like, now that I'm sleeping and I have some more space for my tongue, and yes, I did have a tongue I release at a certain point too. I feel like I'm better off than I was, but I'm not fully. I'm not optimally functional yet. And both my, you know, it could be a combination of that and the impact on my nervous system and how I'm responding to certain business fires that I'm trying to put out, you know, or it could just be the business buyers are just there and I just, you know, don't have the nervous system to respond to them appropriately. Or I guess I kind of said the same thing. But anyways, you know, I think bottom line, right, I'm like, I know, I know I need something next because I'm feeling it even while we're sitting here talking. Like, I. I also didn't get a lot of sleep last night by choice because I had some deadlines I needed to meet. But I'm like noticing my masseters are starting to fatigue. Like, bilaterally more on the left side, but both sides. And I'm starting to feel that there's like a little bit of a, you know, it's not a pull, it's not a pain, but I can feel inflammation generating like around this area, like where my jaw meets, you know, and so anyhow, so that's, I think, being very in tune with the. And then also trying to manage day to day life. It's like. But yeah, so I will eventually be there in your office getting my soma. That is high on my list. And as you keep saying, Mike, I'm wondering if it's the same Mike pri Mike and James, who I have been, like, meaning to have on my podcast for the longest. Like, we messaged not. No joke, like, three months ago. And he was like, here's my cell phone. Text me, because I don't respond on social very well or whatever it was. And I was like, yeah, no problem. I put it on my calendar. It has lived on my calendar. I need to read. Look, I need to text him.

Yeah, I think you're talking about Mike Cantrell. Dri. Mike, this is Mike Vita. He's a local.

I need to know this mic too.

Yeah, he's. Well, Mike Cantrell's amazing. I've taken a couple of his courses. At the beginning when I was learning this stuff, my mic is like, Dr. D', Cruz, maybe I just attract these people who are just these quiet geniuses who do not want to be in the forefront. Like, you know, I mean, Tom's like, mike, can we record my session today? And he's like, I don't wanna. What if I sound dog?

Come on the podcast. Is that what you're talking about?

Oh, my gosh. I'm just trying to get him to make a cameo at my course. Dr. D' Cruz and I are going to do a course in June. And so I'm just trying to get Mike to, like, say a couple words. You know, maybe. Maybe the next time we know my.

My own pri, like, PT is the same where he was developing some coursework with another PRI trained PT who's very, very highly like. Like, they're like both miracle workers in Maryland and just also the same thing. Quiet genius. Like, all the knowledge, all the trainings, but also in a way that integrates. It creates, like, things that helps patients that then they can go and teach others to help them help their page. Like, just be genius brains, individuals, very, you know, so it's like this internal struggle because I'm like, no, but you gotta come talk to everybody because they need to hear what you have to share because you're so brilliant. And like, every time I have a session, it's like, you know, but also he's like, it's just not ready Yet I'm like, okay, one day. One day in the future.

One day. Mike. Vita, I know I'm gonna send you this episode, right? You need to get.

You've been formally invited to join me. He's like, oh, no, not happening. Oh, my gosh. But that's okay because you've also spoken on his behalf a little bit. And I think it is really cool that we can have these discussions about, like, PRI trained pts or these pts who also use other modalities. Like my PT up in Maryland, Manning called it. He's like, it's like modern counter strain technique. He's like, it's not the counterstrain technique that everybody knows it to be. And he's PRI trained as well and many other modalities. But, like, it was just this, like, really beautiful marriage of, like, body work where I would tell people, like, I feel like he barely touched me, but I left there feeling like I had a full body massage and everything is, like, functioning and flowing. I. And he would, like, do something. He'd be like, do you feel that? And I'll be like, yeah, like, the fluids are flowing. Like, I feel like things moving again. And he's like. He's like, most people can't feel that, or they're just not really in tune with that. He's like, but yeah, like, you can feel it, like, pumping. Like, the fluids are pumping again. I'm like, yes. Like, my body is working. Like, everything's doing what it's supposed to be doing. Overdue for a session like that. But it's really incredible, I think, when you do experience it firsthand, because then you have that knowing in a very different way than just hearing about it, because it really does have such a great impact on the body. And then it's really cool when those impacts stick like we were talking about, versus, like. Like losing them, because your body's not in a state of availability to, you know, it's like, okay, it feels great today and maybe the next day and then the day after that. It's like, okay, now we're back to where we were. So my goal, I was telling the goal is not to have to go to providers for the rest of your life for the same repetitive interventions. The goal is to, like, figure out who your team is right now so that we can kind of get you functioning optimally. And then, like, yes, if you need something down the road, of course, like, you go back, but you shouldn't. It shouldn't be an expectation that you go to PT1 one time a week. For the rest of your life or whatever.

Unless you're going to be the hard headed patient like me. I'm like Mike's favorite patient and worst patient at the same time. Because six years later, I still see Mike. I'm like, mike, ache and pain. Here I am. He's like, so how those exercises going? And I'm like, because I can't lie. I mean, it's Mike. Yeah, yeah, they're coming along. They're coming along. You know, so, you know, he's like, oh, good thing you opened your new business because now you do your exercises because you want to, you know, because.

You'Re teaching my patients so you're forced to do that.

Yeah. He's like, oh, when it was for Jasmine, it wasn't good enough. But now that it's for your patients, you're actually changing. I'm like, well, Mike, just be happy.

Yeah, there's got to be a larger impact at play here, you know, Just be happy.

I'm off your schedule every week. Okay, thanks.

I love it. I love it. So you had mentioned earlier a term, dental distress syndrome. Dental distress syndrome. And is that what we were talking about when you were mentioning how, like, really, like what. Basically what happens in the mouth impacts the rest of the body from a health standpoint. I know you mentioned the book and everything, but for people that I can't reach it, it's okay. But for people who are kind of.

Like, what is that?

Like? Yeah, you know, is if they're like, how do I know if I have a dental distress, you know, syndrome? Like, what does that define?

Yeah, yeah, I'll link. I'll. I will link. I will get. I will give. Yeah, I will give you the link to a PDF that's like a summary of the book. The book is great. The book is like 20 bucks. You can't buy from Amazon. You have to buy it from the actual institute for Dr. Fonder, who's the guy who created the term. But the best way to describe it is that I didn't realize this, but in embryology, when we go back in time, everything always comes back to always. Embryology, our teeth, everything except the enamel. The white stuff you see are derived from neural crest cells. And I didn't know that. I must have fallen asleep in the part of dental school where they talked about neural crest cells and all of these aspects of our oral cavity. He says that because of that, anytime we move a tooth, anytime we remove a tooth, anytime we drill a tooth, anytime we do anything to teeth, it's Neurological in nature. And so in the book, because you have a high level understanding of the cranial bones and way the cranium works, the sphenoid, all the bones, you know them. So he talks about how when we have an improper occlusion in the molar region, it sends signals back to the brain and locks the cranial bones, the sphenoid, in these things. So. So we're supposed to have the buccal cusp of the bottom. I'm trying to do teeth here for the people who are viewing this podcast, but the upper teeth and the lower teeth are supposed to fit together in an ideal manner. But for many of us, what happens is when our cheeks do too much work, those molars start to move in. So now the top teeth are biting and hitting the buccal cusp. Cusp of our bottom teeth. They shouldn't be hitting the buccal cusp. They should be hitting more towards the central, where the lingual is more of a balance. So that hitting the buccal sends these chaotic signals back up to the brain because of the way the neurology and the proprioception of the teeth respond. So it's not just about having straight teeth in each arch, but it's about how the two arches actually communicate to each other. He titled this, this dental distress syndrome, where these molars are fitting in improperly. And as the tongue hangs low in our mouth for decades before we find out about myo, the tongue being so heavy causes the lower teeth to erupt. Of course they erupt. They're there, we can see them, but they don't fully erupt. The upper teeth almost super erupt a little bit. And maybe not all of them, but one or two of them. There's this balance issue on both sides of the jaws. And so the teeth being neurological in nature, as they communicate back to the brain, there's this distress. So that's like the easiest way to kind of hopefully. I see you shaking your head. I'm not sure if that really so.

Much says, I mean, and I've like sat here for the longest time because working with pediatric feeding patients, you know, parents always go, well, don't they need to have teeth before they eat? And I'm like, well, no. Like, yes and no, depending on what you're eating. But like, for most foods now, like, we can, you know, introduce solids if a baby's ready at six months. So it's that whole, like, you know, watching these kids and go, and even with one of my own kids, like, delayed dental eruption, because the tongue is sitting low and forward, and then, like, you're saying. And then, you know. Yeah, it just. Everything just started to make so much sense when I started to look at things from a different lens and seeing the patients in front of me, and I was just like, these are never things I was trained to look at. Like, obviously, like, hard tissue's out of scope for me, but I still need to be educated about it. So I know when to refer. I know how it could possibly be impacting what I'm doing. And to really have that holistic lens of, like, okay, is there something that I can do that is within my scope to address what's going on here and. Or, like, what else needs to be brought in to allow me to do my job and help this child in the way that they want to be helped, you know? And so. Or adult. For our MYO patients and older kids, it's just all the light bulbs, right. Started going off. And I was like, our bodies will go with the path of least resistance. Right. Number one. But our bodies also seek that homeostasis. And it's like our homeostasis kind of becomes whatever our body allows it to be. And I think. But so many of us, like, I work with so many. I've worked with so many adults are just like, I had no idea what I was missing out on until I knew what I was missing out on. And, like, they are so it's almost like this identity death of, like, who they were before versus who they are now because they're like, I feel like I've missed out on so much of my life because I didn't know what I now know. I didn't. I've never felt this good. I never knew that this is how everybody else was feeling when they walked around. And I think that goes back to a lot of, like, the psychological, you know, components that you had mentioned and beyond. There's always that, like, everything's just so integrated. And so it's, like, incredible to, like, see this coming to light and attached to an appliance. It's really looking at. You know, someone's looking at the nervous system. And that's one of the things that attracted me early on to one of the appliances I used with Lily when she was 4 because I wanted, like, a light dental appliance. I wanted something that didn't really, like, lock her up or block her palate. But also, she was like, my kiddo, who I was like, I don't know how this is going to go. It was so good. For her nervous system because of like where it touched on her palate, like intentionally, like little loop on her, like, you know, on her insights of Papilla, the spot, if you will. It just was like, oh my gosh. And that was really eye opening for me because I was like, here I had this kid bouncing off the wall and now she's like, oh, I like this in my mouth. And I was like, you do cool. And you know, and that was like a short stint. That was like a one year thing. And the goal was like, also, I don't want to leave fixed things in my kids mouth because they're growing because it locks them up because we need things flowing, you know. But then there's that flip side of like with my youngest, who was who viral dysma group nine times last year, it was sort of like, okay, do we give like three to four months of locking her up to get that palate wider so she can breathe and then we go back into figuring out what we need next, you know? Okay, yes, like, let's go that route because that's what actually makes sense for her in this moment right now. And you know, that's where I always go back to the patients. And I'm like, it really just comes down to like, what is the goal right now? But also I want you to understand, like the long term impact of what you're doing right now. Like, what is your end goal for yourself? Right. And I know we can talk about this all day every day, but it's just, it's really cool. It's really cool because I feel like this appliance is really pulling together so many different siloed approaches in a sense or silos of specialties into like an appliance. And not that it replaces that, but that it I think opens the eyes to like, hey, like, we really need to be addressing some of these things that are like quote unquote quackery in certain spaces.

Yeah, I mean, it's like everything else. It's never the appliance. Right. Like Dr. D' Cruz always says, it's. It's going into therapy with expectation that you're better. It's knowing, like, it's, it's. Because his mentor is Dr. Diamond. Dr. Diamond's book Life Energy. He talks about, you know, being with a patient who can't walk. And he's like, do you believe you ever can walk? Can you see yourself on the beach walking right now, even though you can't right now? So. So for me in my therapy and what I do. It's about bringing that expectation of I have the health that I want already and going and saying, I've made the best decision of my life and moving with intention in a way where we're bringing all this positivity because it actually helps the treatment plan. Like, there's actually research to support that.

Oh, yeah.

But, I mean, like anything else, it's. This is not for everyone. That's why I go through a pretty detailed screening process that's not inexpensive for me to look at the CBCT and look at sleep and look at all these different things before I say, hey, come pay me and do this thing. Let's really make sure you're ready for it. Let's make sure it's a good fit for you and that we're on the same page. And let's do that before you invest thousands of dollars into it. And I'm just really happy with how it's only been a couple months of me launching the business, many years of studying this appliance. But the people that we have in it and the people that have traveled, I mean, I had a patient drive. I have no idea why she drove. I should have asked why she didn't fly, but she drove 14 hours each way. 14 hours. A couple weeks ago, Beth just came from New York. I have patients in Florida coming. I have some people in Tennessee coming. So it has been. It is the most humbling experience to have people trust you to be a part of their journey. And I'm just honored and really excited. And it's just the beginning. It's super cool. And I'm just, like I said, I'm just thankful that Dr. D' Cruz has trusted me to speak on his behalf for his work, because it's really his baby. And, yeah, it's just super cool. I'm excited to get you into your summer.

I know. And I'm even more excited now because, like, everything that we've talked about is so aligned with how I approach, like, my own life and business and everything I do. Like this Life Energy book, I'm like, I had I not know about this. One of my mentors teaches this whole, like, be, do have methodology, which he says most people work from the have do be, and you have to work and be do have. And then the other one says, you got to look at where you want to be 12 months from now, and that's where you have to live from. You got to work, you know, live from the future self so that you can really, you know, identify with that Step into it and live that way today or you're never going to get there. And I have, like, copy in my emails that says, where will you be 12 months from now if you don't take this free training today? Because I want people to envision themselves as a pediatric feeding therapist, as a myofunctional therapist, right. I want them to see themselves. And most people don't ask those questions. So when you just said it, I was like, oh, my gosh, like, we're leading parallel lives right now. I love it. I love it, but it's so true. We have to step into who we want to be today, even if we're not that person. And it's not about, like, you know, lying or telling people we're something we're not. It's just owning that identity and still being true to who you are. And, like, I'm the first person to say to a patient, oh, you know what? I don't know. Let me go research that for you. I don't know. Let me go ask a colleague. I know who I should ask about that. You know what? I don't know. I can't really find that information. Let's see if maybe we can find somebody else who can help us, you know, because I'm. I don't know everything, and I think that's the most dangerous place that any of us can be. Like you said before, you're like, teach me something new today. Right? Like, I am always here to learn from everybody else. And that's one of the reasons why I love this podcast. And everyone's like, how long are you gonna do this for? I'm like, I don't know. I've been doing it. I've been putting out an episode weekly since the middle of 2019. If you had asked me then, would I be doing now? Like, I could have told you what I thought maybe I'd be doing. I had no plans for it. It was just like, let's bring this information to people. Because I can. I can, so why not? And nobody else has done it yet, so, like, let's go. Because that's just what happens in my life. I see things and I'm like, nobody's doing it. Oh, fine, okay, let's go. You know, it's. It's gotta be broad, so. And I'm glad that it is, because I also think it's given a lot of providers and patients opportunity to access information that then kind of armed them with, like, where they're going to go next in their own Treatment plans or careers and things like that. And I'm like, I don't know who those people are always. I don't know unless they come and tell me. But it's like that makes me so happy that I can bring this to people and have this free tool that like just gives you information so you can make a decision about what's best for you. You know, it's like, I don't want to lead you one way or the other. Like, yes, I've got strong opinions, but also I hope you make decisions for yourself. So, you know, that's kind of. That's where I'm at.

So anyway, said that better. 100 agree. I'm the same way. Yep. Love it. That's why I love you.

I know, I know. All right.

I'm so happy you have.

We gotta like look at the calendar and like actually put this on the book so it happens. So I will add that to my ever growing list of things to get done in the next 48 hours and.

You have more pressing matters on your end. You know how to find me. I'm not hard to find. You know how to find me.

You're the best. You're the best. Well, thank you so much for your time and for sharing the Soma with us and everybody. If they want to find you, just tell them really quick about your new Instagram account because I know from the last podcast they know they can go to Rich sleep, but what's the new one?

Sleep with Soma. Sleep with Soma. I have a trusted amazing person running it for me. It's great. Our website may or may not be out by the time you post this, but that will be pain free and rested.com and so it's almost ready. So they can find me one of those places, but at least Instagram they can find me there. Sleepwithsama or Rich Underscore Sleep.

Thank you so much, Jasmine. This has been amazing and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you found value in this episode and want to hear more of these Myotots, Airway and Feeding related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode on your social media platforms. You can access free resources and all I offer@hallie balkan.com or pop over to Holly Balkan on Instagram to get all the latest updates.