Episode 223: Hiring Done Right with Hallie Bulkin

Hi and welcome to episode 223 of the Untutored Podcast. It is your host Hallie here and we are jumping into our mini business series on hiring. Let's get started. Quick Disclaimer all information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Welcome. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Holly Balkan. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, airway, tethered oral tissue and pediatric feeding therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019, thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode, remember to listen with correct oral rest posture, tongue up, lips closed, close, teeth apart, breathe through your nose. Let's get started. Okay, so welcome to our mini Business series. I had asked you all what you wanted to talk about on a business series and I think we have three people actually comment on hiring. So hiring seems to be really popular in terms of a topic right now. So I want to dive in real quick though I do want to let everybody know that because one of the main hiring questions was surrounding employees versus independent contractors, which is what we're going to talk about today. I do have a full blown training on this inside the mile membership. And as an FYI, the mile membership is opening doors for seven days only. July 17th. I believe it's through the 23rd, 2023. So if you're looking to join, go to the myomembership.com Put yourself on the wait list and make sure that you join us when doors are open the week of July 17th. Okay, so. Oh, the other thing I will say is that training that's in there on independent contractors versus employees is about 45 minutes long and it goes kind of deep. And then there is another training that I did that's about 28 minutes in the business library that's on hiring, you know, both admin and therapists, how to know who to hire, how and when to pay, and the paperwork involved. So that is another training that we have inside the my membership if you're interested. And I'm going to touch on some of those topics as well in our next recording next week on this mini business series regarding hiring. And then in our third episode, we will have on a guest who is a expert in this space space. And so you have that to look forward to in the upcomin. All right, so let's jump in. A quick disclaimer though, that while I'll be sharing on hiring ICs versus employees and knowing, you know, when to hire a therapist and or an admin, I am not a cpa. I am not a tax attorney. I don't have an mba. So this is based on my experience, my research, owning several businesses myself, both in the, you know, online and offline space. The therapy world. Right. I own a private practice and I've hired many people into that practice in the and then also having, you know, an online business. So there's a lot of experience there and a lot of trial and error. Excuse me, A lot of trial and error. A lot of lessons learned. And so enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. And as always, my DMs are open, so feel free to DM me at Hallie Balkan if you have questions. I do some business mentoring on the side as well, but you would have to email supporteedthepedes.com to inquire about that. Okay, so let's jump into talking about, you know, someone had asked me like, what are the pros and cons of hiring, period, and then also hiring an independent contractor versus an employee. Right. So this is honestly going to vary based on who you are as a business owner, what expenses you have, you know, what your overhead is, also the state that you live in. There are certain states in the United States of America, America, that may have certain rules surrounding who you can hire. For example, you know, in New Jersey, I know there's some very strict rules around this. So you need to understand what your law says, you know, in the location where you currently are operating that business. And then the other thing that I will mention is a free resource. It's called SCORE S C O R E and this is free for business owners. And you may be able to connect with somebody in your space. For what, whether it's a cpa, a lawyer, somebody with an MBA who can guide you on certain business topics. But it's a great place to start if you're a new business owner and you're looking to, you know, just get some general answers. And these individuals, when they volunteer for SCORE and they mentor through score, they're not allowed to take you on as a paid client outside of score, so they're not going to be soliciting your business, which is nice. And I did once upon a time speak with a CPA. Oh, gosh, this had to have been like, 12, 15 years ago. No, probably 12 years ago when I was first getting into different business ventures and wanted some guidance on structuring an llc. And so that I did find it, you know, very helpful during that time to help me better understand, like, what my state said and what the legalities were surrounding the questions that I had. So I do recommend that, you know, I even recommend that to some of my coaching clients, my, you know, those who I meant mentor in business, because I think it can be a really great resource, especially if you have some simple questions that you want to get answered and you want to keep those costs low. Because some of, you know, while it's absolutely imperative that you invest in a good cpa and, you know, sometimes if you need a tax attorney or you need different, you know, professionals who specialize in different topics depending on your needs, I do advise in investing in those. But I know in the beginning there can be a lot of expenses, especially with getting a new business off the ground. So see what you can, you know, what you're able to connect with and what, what help you're able to get through something like score. And then, you know, hiring a business mentor and hiring maybe a CPA or hiring some of these other individuals is a really great next step, once you feel like that is what you're ready for. Okay, so we're going to talk about a couple different things. You know, what does it even mean to be an employee versus an independent contractor? Was a question that came through. You know, can someone even be an independent contractor, or do they have to be an employee? As I touched on a little bit. And what I want to say there about that is that this is not an opinion. Right? This is a legal matter. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I will direct you to the IRS's website. You know, go there. There's a lot of information on the difference between the definition of an employee versus an independent contractor. And I suggest that you read that if you're a business owner, because the burden falls on you to understand this information. When you own a business, you don't get to go, oops, I didn't know that. Or, oh, no one told me that. Or, you know, oh, I. I didn't even know that. This was something I had at Google. Unfortunately, when you become a business owner, and this is not to scare anybody. But when you become a business owner and you start to hire, you do need to understand the legal behind what you're doing. You know, you don't want to pay penalties, you don't want to get into all these issues because you just simply didn't know something that wouldn't maybe have been a very costly thing to learn about or even implement, but it can become costly on the back end if you are unaware and you don't implement things. Okay. And I know I'm speaking more generally, but I say this because that's why it may be worth investing in like a cpa, for example, even at the beginning, because the CPA may be able to advise you on, you know, who would be an appropriate candidate for an independent contractor versus an employee. Right. The first CPA that I worked with when I started my, my business had like an, she called it an 18 point checklist to confirm that somebody, you know, made the cut as a true independent contractor and that they would not be able to be qualified as an employee by the IRS if I was audited. Right. And so that's something that, you know, I reviewed with her and we agreed that they were, you know, in my business, in my private practice, that I truly have and had independent contractors. Right. And I'll talk a little bit about that and what that means. On the flip side, you know, my, my CPA that I have now, he also, you know, has reviewed this with me and we've gone through different questions and situations and, you know, made sure that again, the contractors that I do have in my practice are truly qualified. You know, they do truly qualify as independent contractors. So anyways, so that's that. Okay. And no, I always get asked when I share this, I don't have her 18 point checklist like on hand. That's not something that I like have per se. But like I said, the IRS has a really good description and breakdown of what qualifies as an independent contractor and what qualifies as an employee. And you know, I think when you read that, it, it is, it's in language that I think is relatively easy to understand as well. You don't need to be a CPA or an attorney or somebody with like all this legalese to understand like what they're saying. I do think it's a well constructed document. So I'm going to guide you there. And if you Google understanding employee versus contractor designation, there is, it's on the IRS website. I believe the link is like irs.gov backslash newsroom backslash understanding-employeevs-contractor- Designation and I can, I can definitely put that link in the show notes as well, or not show notes. We do the little, you know, the information now that appears underneath our show notes are now underneath every episode instead of downloaded, so they're more readily available for you. So I'll put the link there so that you have easy access to that. All right, so the other thing too is to consider, like benefits offered. That was a question that came up quite a bit, you know, in my, when I had asked about what you guys wanted to hear about when I, when it comes down to hiring. And you know, the thing I'll say about that is what does your state require, right? Because sometimes your state may have specific benefits that you have to offer and that may be based on the number of employees that you have. So sometimes larger businesses have different requirements than smaller small business owners, and that number is designated by your state as to what qualifies, you know, as mandatory versus optional. Sometimes smaller businesses do not have the same requirements, you know, but if you give it to one employee, then oftentimes you have to give it to. All right, and again, I'm not a cpa, I'm not an attorney, I don't specialize in this. But these are the types of things that you want to look into. Now the other thing that you can look into as far as benefits go are like the nice to haves or the nice to offers, right? But what can you afford? What can your, what can you afford to pay? Right? And then what, what benefits can you afford to offer? Because at the end of the day, we have to keep the lights on. And something that comes up a lot is, you know, well, how do I even know what to pay? Okay, and we'll talk, maybe we'll talk about that more in the next episode if we have time for that. But knowing what to pay is going to be based on so many different factors. So just keep that in mind. And then also finding out, you know, if you're able to, like, what benefits may be commonly offered, you know, for employees in your area. Because you don't offer benefits to independent contractors. Benefits automatically make somebody an employee, you know, but you want to be competitive and you want to be, you want your offer to be attractive, right? So you can attract high quality employees. But again, you also need to look at like, what is your overhead? Like, what is, what's your operating budget? Do you have an operating budget? Do you know what you spend? And I have a very lean model because I Don't have a brick and mortar, right? In my private practice, we travel to our patients. We provide virtual therapy. And so, you know, location is going to play into this, because is it possible for you to set up a business like that, or do you need a brick and mortar? And also location then also plays a part in whether somebody can be an independent contractor versus a employee. So if they have to report to your office to treat, they're technically in most cases, an employee, not a contractor. If they can travel on their own time to other locations, like someone's home, a preschool, daycare, private schools, you know, if you have school contracts and they're going to, you know, into public schools, that's fine. They may be able to be classified as either an independent contractor or an employee. If you get audited, you know, that's always the biggest risk and concern. It can put your business under. Because if you have to go and pay back taxes, right? And mean by this is, if you get audited, and let's say you have a team of independent contractors and somebody, you know is auditing you from the irs. And when I say audited, I mean by the irs, like, they're auditing you, and they determine that your contractors are actually not contractors, they're employees. You're going to have to pay all these back taxes that you didn't pay on all of these individuals that work for you. And the amount is based on the income that they made that you would then have had to pay taxes on in the past. And again, I'm not a cpa, okay? So this is just generally speaking, but also there's usually penalties and things assessed on top of all of that back pay. And so it's something that a lot of SLPs have warned, you know, because there have been some SLPs who've been through this, who have shared with others. It has put some businesses under, meaning they basically had to shut their business down because they owed more money than they could pay. And, you know, so it's not a risk that's worth taking, in my opinion, to try and save a few bucks, right? To try and save the headache of not having to pay, quote, unquote, payroll, you know, payroll. When we say payroll, really, you're. You're paying whether you have contractors or you have employees, Right? But the amount of taxes that you're paying, right? Or if you pay taxes at all on that individual depends on the classification of employee or contractor. And so that's where, again, you can't get into this whole, like, well, I. I Didn't know. No one ever told me. My CPA didn't say that. That doesn't become a thing. Like that's not a good excuse or reason. And so because people you know can, you can get audited, you want to do it the right way. Okay. And so make sure that you do your due diligent, due diligence. Make sure you go to that, that, you know, IRS website, read the most updated description of what an employee versus a contractor is so that you make sure that you are doing this properly. Okay? Now, when to consider hiring was a question that came up quite a bit like when do I hire? So when I work with, you know, my one to one clients and I've done either intensives, I do 90 minute intensives with private practice owners or I've done, you know, I do ongoing mentorship, like monthly mentorship and everything. Some of the biggest things that have come up that you know that I'd say like SLPs, for example, are super interested in hiring or bringing somebody on. It's usually because they're wanting to reduce their own caseload. Right? So if you're wanting to reduce your personal caseload or you're wanting to take a break from, or stop treating and like moving more into a management position from a business standpoint, that's another reason you'd hire someone. Maybe it's that you're not have, you don't have the time to like manage your private practice anymore and treat. So maybe you're not hiring a therapist yet. Maybe you're hiring a part time administrative assistant first, someone to answer the phone, someone to do the intake, someone to help coordinate your, your calendar, to make sure that all of the documents are coming in and going out that need to, with your collaborations, you know, and so on and so forth. Right. And then if you take insurance, a biller or somebody who can help with that side of, you know, the business. So it may be that you hire an admin first and maybe they're part time, right? That's one of the things that's always so interesting because so many will come to me and say, oh gosh, like I, I need help, but I don't, I just don't know that I have the money to hire an, an admin yet. Well, you don't have to hire an admin full time. They kind of go, oh yeah. So that's a big thing that comes up a lot. So consider that some free mentorship right there. Because you know, you could go and hire someone five hours a week, 10 hours a week, 20 hours a week. You know, depending on what your needs are, depending on what your budget allows, depending on the going rate in your area, you can hire an amazing administrative assistant to help with these types of tasks that maybe you don't need to be doing anymore and so that you can open up more of your time to treat. Or maybe if your schedule is full and you're treating full time and you're still managing all the admin stuff, that means you're not sleeping a lot, you're not spending a lot of time with your family, you're not leaving office before you know your kids are in bed. All these various things that come up, you know, that is when you know it's time to hire. If you have a long wait list, right, that could be a good time to hire additional therapists. If you're wanting maybe to mentor therapists and bring them in as employees and help to like oversee caseloads, that's a great way to do it, you know, is obviously expand the team and you can do more mentorship yourself if that's what you desire. So, you know, this is something that can really be both a personal and business driven decision because you have to look at what is good for the health of the business. What are my business goals? How, how much do I want to grow this practice? Some people are perfectly happy just, you know, having themselves working so many hours a week and being their own admin. And then others say, you know what, I still only want it to be me as a therapist, but I need administrative help. And then there's others who say, I still want to do some of the admin work right now, but I need somebody answering phones and I do want to bring another therapist on, right? And so you have to decide what works for you. And there isn't necessarily a right way or a wrong way to go about this. It's just figuring out what your goals are and getting super clear on what you need and then going out and finding that. Right, Finding the help to help you kind of get from where you are to where you want to be, right? And so that's one of the things that I often will tell, you know, those that I mentor, like, you have permission to do what works for you and your business. I do not subscribe to like, oh, you ought to do things this way and if you want to skill, you got to do that. And if you, you know, want to want a balanced life and self care and blah, blah, blah, like it's got to be done this way no, no, you do it in the way that works for you. And learning to trust yourself and learning to trust your intuition and what that tells you about how you want to run your business. Everyone says to me, like, what's your secret? How did you go from zero to eight, you know, to not eight to six figures in eight months with the private practice? Well, it's because I jumped right in and I kept my head down. I kept, stayed very focused on my patients. I started getting word of mouth referrals because I was doing a great job offering a high end service that, you know, others had paid similar money to get elsewhere, but they were not having the same experience. Whether their children weren't making progress or they just didn't have the same, you know, customer service or whatever. These were the things that I basically made very clear, like what I wanted my practice to look like, who I wanted to, like what I, you know, who I wanted to be inside my practice and who and basically what the identity of my practice was. And that's what really, you know, the mission and everything. That's what helped me get really clear on when I needed to hire somebody and then who I needed to hire. And so I knew, for example, that, you know, I'm seeing patients from 8am to 2pm, you know, four days a week and doing more of my admin stuff one day a week and report writing and everything. Right. That was in the very beginning. And then I said, you know, I'm getting all these phone calls for kids who want after school therapy. And one the kinds of clients who are wanting that after school therapy are clients that are a bit older, right? They're like kindergarten on up. And at the time I was working really with the, you know, toddler population, more or less. And I said, I don't really want to do language therapy and you know, some of the stuff that they're needing because this is not my area of expertise, this is not who I have worked with. And I really didn't have, have too much experience in that at all outside of grad school. And so that's where I said, okay, you know what, it's time to hire a contractor. It's ti. It's time to hire someone, one who can work after school hours and who wants to see the, you know, types of patients that are calling and that need our help. And that's where I started to kind of shape shift my identity inside my practice and like what my practice stood for. And I made myself a promise that no matter how much my practice grew we would always make a point of, of connecting a therapist who had the skill set to the patient's needs. And obviously that can be a little bit harder to know, you know, before an assessment. But when a parent calls and says, hey, I'm calling for my child, they're this age. This is what I'm struggling with. That generally tells me like what general realm we're looking at, right? Are we looking at pediatric feeding in a toddler, an infant, a preschooler, an older child? Are we looking at a tongue tie? Are we looking language struggles? Are we looking at speech needs? And you know, if the child's over the age of five and they need speech help, okay, well maybe that's speech and there may be a mild component, right. So these types of things help to help, you know, both myself at the time and my admin, you know, now know who to even contact to say, hey, do you have time to see a child this age, this need, they say this is where they live or this is a school you'll be going to. Right? And then we're better able to connect them with the patient and know that they're going to have a good, good experience because we've connected them with the right therapist. And this is very different than how things work in, in the therapy world. A lot of the insurance based, because we are not insurance based. A lot of the insurance based private practices that we have encountered, you know, especially Montgomery County, Maryland, tend to just give whatever therapist to whatever patient based on scheduling requests and not necessarily the skill set. We've had a lot of families come to us and tell us that they were with a therapist who admitted that they did not know how to work with the child and that, you know, it was kind of out of their hands that the child got put on their caseload. And so this is not best practice. And listen, I haven't run an insurance based practice, so I'm not going to sit here and judge and I'm not going to sit here and say I would have done differently, although I would. So maybe I will say that. But, you know, I don't know how it happened, what happened, or, you know, for what reason, that this seems to happen a lot. But what I do know is that, you know, from an ethical standpoint, especially when it comes to things like feeding and tethered oral tissues and myofunctional therapy and more of the medical side of the speech pathology world, especially with medically complex kiddos, we need to make sure that whoever their therapist understands how to work with the patient. And if they don't, that we're providing the right mentorship, I do fully believe that falls on the business owner to make sure of. And again, unfortunately, that's just not how it happens most times in the therapy world. So, anyways, okay, so that's that. Right. And so that's a bit about when to consider hiring and even who to look for when hiring. And the thing I'll tell you too, and we're going to talk more about this when I have my colleague and friend Jesse Voice on the podcast in a few weeks. Like a couple episodes from now. I'll be our last hiring episode that we air. Who you hire matters and you don't want to hire from desperation and something that Jesse and I have talked about that I know we're going to cover on that podcast. And one of, one of the things that I've even learned from my own business mentor outside of the speech pathology space, just in the business world in general, is to hire slow and fire fast. And that sounds, I mean, we're going to leave it at that. Okay, so there's your, there's your little hook to join us in two episodes. But there are a lot of lessons learned around that topic. Okay, so how do we find the best quality candidates to even hire? Right. Something that I will tell you is that, you know, one of the biggest tips I can give is to reach out and let people know you're hiring, like, post it on your personal Facebook page because you don't even know who might know somebody that they might refer to you. You obviously can use things like, you know, indeed, and some of those other job sites and everything too. But they do work. But they really are pushing everyone to now pay some. You know, it will be an investment if you want your, your job listing to actually be seen. And I don't even know if they let you do free posts on there anymore. But either way, they're not showing the free ones. So you may post it and you're going to get crickets or you're going to get people that are completely unqualified, that don't even have a, you know, degree in speech pathology, applying for the job. And you're going to go, no, this is not exactly what I'm looking for. One of the things you can also do is let your, you know your school or like, or the local college. You know, when I say school, if you still live, like where you went to your university, for example, your, your undergrad or your graduate program, you can let them know There sometimes have list serves or Facebook pages, your groups, you know, if there's a local college alumni association, you can ask if you're able to post there and on their listserv, you know, utilize that. And then, you know, posting on social media and just being super clear on what you're hiring for and who you're hiring. So you don't get a ton of direct messages from people in, you know, various different countries offering to work for you and you going, are you moving to the US because that does happen too. I've had, I've had like clients of mine say I posted this and I got all these messages from someone who lives like halfway across the world. And you know, and, and I think the thing is people are saying, and they wanted to know if I was offered, you know, if I was going to be doing virtual therapy as part of this, this job position. So just be super clear on what you're hiring for and, and what the need is. And where they need to live should be included in that too. You know, where they need to be licensed, where they need to live. If it's only type of thing, if it's a contractor or an employee that you're hiring, you don't have to give all the details and you don't have to say what you're paying or you know, if you say part time, you don't have to say the number of hours necessarily. But if you're hiring for someone who needs feeding therapy skills and you want them to come skilled, you need to put that in there, right? So just being super specific in like what you're looking for because the clearer that you are, the more you will attract the right candidates. And then you can then hire based on a pool of candidates that you know, once you interview them that have come to you with the right skill set, you know, in from the get go. But that's the other thing too is like attracting the right candidates. And how do you attract the right candidates? You can't attract the right candidates unless you know again who you are, what your practice like, who your practice is like. If your practice was a person, who is your practice? What is the avatar of your practice? What is it that you set out to do on a daily basis and what are your beliefs and values use. And that's an activity and an exercise that I take my private coaching clients through. It's not something that we can like do here on a podcast, but I help them get really clear on what their values are. And I know I've said This before in some past business series. But if you don't have like money or wealth or some kind of a monetary, you know, let's just leave it at money or wealth. If you don't have that as one of your, like, top three values, you're not going to make money money, period. And I will tell you, most people in the service industry, slp, ot, pt, so on and so forth, they don't have it. It's not there when we do this exercise. And so, you know, I'm not going to go too deep or too much, you know, further into this because it, again, is something that really is a good activity to do with like a mentor. But you have to get clear on what your values are. And you need to know what the values are in the practice. And that needs to be aligned. You as the business owner running that practice and the practices know those need to be aligned, right? And then you need to hire based on those values and your beliefs. Because if you bring somebody in who is not aligned with your values and beliefs, it's never going to work out. It might seem good in the beginning, but it's quickly going to go south. And again, I've been there, right? You don't want to hire from desperation. You want to hire slow and fire fast. As I said before and again just Jesse and I will dive into this a couple episodes from now. So like I said, join us for that, that conversation. But going back to like, the pros and cons, we're going to talk a bit about pros and cons on, you know, the, the IC side of things first. But, and then we'll wrap up this, this episode today because I really kind of just wanted to dive into, you know, some of the initial questions of like, how do I even know when to hire? Who do I hire? And hopefully I've answered a little bit on those topics. But what are the benefits? Right. And what are the, what are the pros and cons? Right. I tapped into that at the beginning. So I will tell you that the, a pro for a business owner, when you're hiring an independent contractor, for example, is that you don't have to pay taxes on an independent contractor, right? They pay their own taxes out of the money that you pay them. The con then becomes, in some people's eyes, I actually think it's not. And you know, I think at a certain way, in a certain way, some of this also levels out. But the then is that you have a higher hourly rate. Right? And like I said, this often works Itself, itself out compared to, you know, if they were an employee. But, you know, other cons are like, you can't tell them what courses to take, you can't tell them what cases to take. You can't tell them when to work with someone, who to work with, when to work, where to be when. You basically have to allow them to be truly independent. And so everything is up to them. So you may get phone calls for a client that you can't take on because you don't have somebody who agrees to take the case on your team because they're independent contractors. And case is almost looked at as like an individual project. And so it's like, and I say that because when you read the language in like the IRS documents, they'll talk about like projects, right? And so basically a project equates to like a patient case, if you will. Not in the therapy world and not really, but just for, you know, legalese and lingo, if you will, semantics. So like I said, you have to offer them the client and they either accept or deny. Okay. And then they should manage their scheduling directly. And so we will sometimes help them up the initial appointment for the evaluation, but they manage like everything else and even sometimes that independently. Now for employees you can do, you know, some of the benefits too is that you could do like an hourly versus salaried employee and then you can offer benefits like depending on how many hours they work. And obviously like I said before, whatever the local laws state, but in terms of pay and everything, there's, you know, there's so many factors in that. And so I'll talk a little bit more about pay if we have time, like I said, you know, in the next episode. But I will tell you that, you know, it does often cost a bit more to have an employee than a contractor in most situations because of payroll taxes and other benefits. Okay. So it's, you know, like I said, the taxes itself might work itself out, but then the benefits come into play and that's where you're going to have some additional expenses that you don't have for contractors. But anywho, we can, we can jump a little bit more into that again again next, next episode. And so I'm going to wrap this up. Like I said, I do have a full blown training on this inside of the Bio membership and I do dive into, you know, way more in regards to ICs versus employees with lots of examples and everything. And then there's some further training on that plus a whole library of business training. So go to the mymembership.com get on the waitlist. Join us the week of July 17th. We'd love to see you in there. I will tell you that that it's really a safe space, a kind group of very special individuals. Slp ot rdh. We've had PT in there before. I'm not sure if we have any pts in there now. We've had dental colleagues in there as well and we have, you know, presentations from different specialists and providers in the dental ortho myo tots airway, you know, speech OTPT space. We have some really cool trainings coming up up and yeah, I'll leave it at that. But if you have any questions about the membership DM me because like we've got these business business trainings in there, but we have a ton of other marketing resources that are free for you to use, download and use and put your information all over done for you. You know, lunch and learn like all kinds of things. If I read it all off, you guys be like, whoa, that's like giving it away for free. Yes, yes we do basically. So as a member, you're basically paying for the CEU component of it, but you're getting the research reviews, those marketing mater. There's also office hours and you can come to office hours with any questions on patient cases. If you have business questions, I'm sure that those can be answered too because I believe all of our mentors, I'm just thinking real quick through all of our mentors, they all have their own private patient cases or own private practice, even if they're the only one working in it. So you know, aside from being certified in the myofunctional therapy space, which they all are, they also have business experience or at least have worked with private patients. So anyhow, at Hallie Balkan on Instagram, if you do want to inquire about possibly working with me, you know, mentoring from a business standpoint. I do. I am also working with individuals who are outside of the therapy space and who have other types of businesses in the online space, especially email supporteedthepedes.com and Taylor can send you some more information on that. All right everybody, I hope this was enjoyable and helpful and I will chat with you soon on our Our Next Little Biz mini Series episode on hiring. Chat soon. Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you found value in this episode and want to hear more of these Myotots, Airway and Feeding related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode on your social media platforms you can access free resources and all I offer@halliebalkin.com or pop over to alliebulcken on Instagram to get all the latest updates.