Episode 225: Trust Your Gut with Jessie Blois

Hi and welcome to episode 225 of the Untethered Podcast. Today I have Jesse Bloyce joining us. Jesse is an SLP QOM business owner and inner work coach for women. Personally, she's a wife, mother, advocate of helping women feel seen, supported and successful. Her career has evolved over the past 15 years. By following her heart and intuition, she's been led to where she is today. Her passion for helping others is what originally got her started in the field of speech pathology. When she saw that there was a need and an opportunity to provide better, more holistic care, she found Fox Therapy Services. It was then that she stepped in her new role as a business owner and inner work coach. No matter what course she took or what coach she worked with, it was not until she learned about who she is and why she acts, feels, believes, does what she does and was truly able to elevate her life and her own business. Quick Disclaimer all information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Foreign welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Holly Balkan. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, airway tether, dural tissue and pediatric feeding therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019, thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode, remember to listen with correct oral rest posture, tongue up, lips closed, teeth apart, breathe through your nose. Let's get started. Hey Jesse, welcome to the podcast.

Hey Holly. I'm so happy to be here.

Okay, so my excitement stems from the fact that like I've known. I've known you for years now and been like when we didn't know each other in the early days it still felt like we knew each other forever. So I love this is coming like full circle and you're now like on the podcast and talking about business related topics which is super fun.

Yeah. Well do you remember Holly, the very first time we spoke my company was kind of just like this dream in my head and I reached out to you because as we'll talk throughout the Podcast I'm a huge believer in. If someone else has walked the path, learn from them. Don't spend five years learning what you could learn in a couple months. Pay for the coach, pay for the help, or reach out. Just put yourself out there in situations. So I had contacted you, I don't even know how many years ago now, to be like, hey, I kind of want to do this thing. Tell me what you think.

Yes, I remember that. And that I feel like, was, like, back in some of my earlier days of, like, mentoring other private practice owners, too. And, like, it started as a hobby, and then I started moving into, like, actually, like, coaching for, like, you know, a fee. And then it's just kind of evolved over the years. And, yeah, I mean, I do remember that. And then I remember, like, you know, we had a conversation, like, last summer about, like, other business ideas, inventors and things, and I was like, I love. This is, like, all coming so full circle.

It totally did, and I love it. And now my relationship with you, professionally and personally, is just so important to me, so I'm so happy to be here. And I mean, hiring is something that I can talk about.

Yes. Yeah, I feel like it's, like, a little bit so, like, the bane of a lot of our existence lately. Like, just like you, me, coaching, client, mentor clients, I have a lot of private practice owners I've been talking to and business owners, too. It just so much has changed in the past couple of years.

As far, so much has changed since COVID Yeah. With hiring, I mean, I challenge anyone to walk around the mall and see if they can count less than, like, at least 50, 50% of the stores having a hiring inside. Maybe more people are hiring because it's. It's a different world out there, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it is. So tell us real quick. So everyone kind of understands, like, your background a little bit as far as, like, business ownership goes. So, okay, what, you know, tell us about your business, how many employees you have, Admin, therapists, et cetera. So they understand, like, you know, your background as far as hiring.

Okay. So I was. I'm a speechless pathologist and a myofunctional therapist. I started out in the schools. I was in the schools for about a decade, which is around the time I originally reached out to you. And then I started my company called Fox Therapy Services. Originally, my idea was to just be a sole provider, build up my own caseload. But then the next person calls and you don't have room. And I always felt it's moral obligation to help these kiddos get services. So I would bring on another slp. And this is back in the day when California was allowed to have contractors and I missed those days. So I had different contractors working for me and it was great. And then AB5 passed and we had switched to employees and it made things messy. And then the other thing I went ahead and made messy at the time was now that we were able to treat more kiddos, I started to get phone calls that said I just can't afford that because private pay is expensive. So I thought, well, you know what, everyone should be able to access good services. All contract with insurance companies. If anybody out there is on the fence about contracting with insurance companies, I am happy to speak with you. There's pluses and there's minuses, but the minuses are really minus and you just need to know what you're about to get yourself into. But because I do contract with insurance companies, we are able to help a lot of families. And then. So I had a good team before COVID hit, then Covid hit, everything kind of got turned upside down. And once we came back, we came back in June, so we went out in March and we came back in June. I kind of had to rebuild my company at that point. But during that time there was a lot of growth and we actually added multi discipline. So we went from speech therapy only and I did some myofunctional therapy to now speech therapy, myofunctional therapy, occupational therapy, feeding therapy, and we have a lactation consultant who's in part time as well. So it's, it's great. We're able to do a lot. I love the collaboration and at this point Box has been around for about eight years now and we have an admin team of three. We have an OT team of three. One also does feeding therapy and actually just went through your MYO program and is doing myofunctional therapy, which is amazing. And I would say on our speech site at the moment, I'm not going to sit here and count, but about seven. So we go anywhere between 15 and 20 employees at a time, depending on just the need.

Awesome. Yeah, awesome. So you've had your fair share over the years of having a private practice now in terms of hiring and you know, and I'm sure it's true in every business. You know, I used to always think it was like very much so part of me having my private practice. One we don't have a brick and mortar too. I'm in the DMV and I feel like that D.C. metro area is super transient with like people moving in for government jobs and then people moving out. And so like spouse is kind of following their spouse. And I don't know, you know, if you found this to be true, but I feel like speech pathology is one of those professions they sell you where it's like, oh, it's super flexible, you'll always have a job. Like if you have a traveling spouse or something, or you're going to move a lot in your lifetime, like you can go work in the schools, you can work in a hospital, you work in a private practice. And so I feel like there's that plus, like people get pregnant and go on maternity leave. Some come back, some don't. It's like people, you know, decide they want time off or they're going to go to Europe for a year and then they want their position when they come back. I mean, we've had like all different kinds of, like different scenarios. Typically it's like either I'm getting married and moving away. My, my, you know, significant other's job is moving. I'm moving to be closer to my parents. Or, um, what's the other one? I say pregnancy, already having a baby. I don't know. So it's, it's like usually one of those. It's true.

Well, we, you know, speech therapists are primarily women. And so you see a lot of that. There's a lot of women getting pregnant, having babies and then, you know, they have one idea of how they're going to come back and that changes. Also when Covid happened, it was the moms mostly that said, like, I have to stay home, I have to take care of my kids, I have to school my kids. So that shifted everything a ton. I used to employ women my age and then after Covid, it was new grads. And yeah, that's, you know, it's a different demographic and yeah, and then there's the travel and then there's also trying because our degrees, which I don't necessarily agree with, but they can take us from a school to a hospital to a private practice. People want to try out different things. And then another thing that I think I've encountered because I am a small family owned business 20 miles outside of LA and Beverly Hills. I am not as big as some of these really big companies in that area. So I do have mostly people who haven't been working as long. They'll come and they'll work for us. But the grass does seem greener in these bigger companies. With more flexibility, higher pay, different packages. So there's a lot of reason to see people come and go. But that is why I've become so specific in my hiring process.

Yes. For better or worse. Right. Because it can super limit your candidate pool in an already super limited candidate.

It is really limited. And I mean, if one thing, I would love grad programs. If we could let in more than 12 to 16 people at a time, that would be huge for the profession. We need bigger graduate programs.

That's interesting. I feel like that's a really good point. My graduating class, I think, had, like, 26 or 28.

Oh, that's huge. I had, like, 13.

Well, and they were like, this is the largest that, like, we've ever had. And I don't know what the sizes have been since then at Maryland, but it was. They were like, this is a really large group. And I believe it was like 28 or so. So I could be off by a few people. But, yeah, it was. It was, like, big. And I was like, this is big. Like, yeah. Isn't there such a need for what we do? If there's such a demand, why are we not letting more people into the program? And I also get it to an extent, because, like, it, like, at least at my university, there was a clinic, and there's only so much room on a schedule with patients. If you're actually participating in the clinic and you're, you know, in order to make sure everybody gets experience with everything and how it works with all the mentors in the program, I can understand that that might be a limitation. But also, like, a lot of our time was spent outside of the clinic at outplacements. So I feel like there's also a way to overcome that.

There must be a why? Because I feel like it's everywhere. But I hope somewhere in all this, people are looking for a solution. Because what's happening is they're graduating, like, 12 to 16 graduates at a time. And then you have to think some of them want to go travel for a little bit, or some of them aren't going straight to work. And then that pool gets even more limited. And there's. There's schools and there's companies. We have such a need, and it makes it really challenging because then. Because then the applicant's more in control than the owner of the business.

Yeah, that's interesting. And I do know a lot of speech pathologists, a lot of moms, I should say, that have gone through graduate programs. They can practice as speech pathologists, but they're not practicing because they're staying home with their kids. And so, you know, to your point, like, there is definitely. There's a huge need. There's a huge need. But, yeah, I want to talk to about, because I know this is, like, definitely a topic that you and I both agree on and hire from this perspective, if you will, but kind of following, you know, your own intuition and following, like, your own value system when it comes to hiring. And, like, what is that? What does that look like for you? And, you know, speak to that a little bit.

So, yeah, that's where I'm at now, 100%. I. If the energy is off, if the vibe's not there, we're just not going to do it. I have an amazing clinical director, Bri, and we've kind of been through it, and now we're both very aligned in our mindset of if it doesn't feel right, we're not going to do it just to do it. I'll keep the wait list instead of hiring because I have the need. But I came to this place, Hallie, because I had so many unfortunate moments of hiring because I needed to fill that need. And there were people on the wait list, and someone's leaving, and I have to take over that caseload. So somebody walks in and you're like, okay, we're going to do it. Like, they're able. They can start it. All the boxes are getting checked. That's fine. Let's do it. And when my debt and those moments told me it wasn't a good idea, I have never been wrong. I've never been wrong. And I find out nine months to a year or a year and a half later that I should have trusted my instinct. I've even had different business coaches, not Halle guys say, like, no, this is the one you need to hire. They have more experience. Where my gut was telling me to hire someone with less experience, and I listened, and it didn't work out. So I have really, really learned that trust yourself. When you're hiring, do not hire just to hire, because you need to protect what you're trying to build in this company. And you want to create a certain environment for your team. And if that gets disrupted even by one person, it's a domino effect. And creating a culture that has positive energy and good teamwork, to me, is more important than the growth of the company happening at a faster rate.

Yeah. I mean, and I think to. To that, you know, to that point, ultimately, at the end of the day, I think your company will Grow and sustain growth at a faster rate if you're hiring the right people, it just may take time to find those people. And so it kind of, I think on the front end, like, you know, and I know that you've said this and I, I alluded to this in the last couple episodes, knowing that we were going to talk about this, but the topic of like, higher, slow, fire fast, like, let's dive in there because we can come back to talking about like value systems and following your intuition and everything. And I think it, it's all interrelated, but it can be, it can feel like painful in a way to like hire slow. And you're like, but this, this person could do the job. Like, my, something in my gut is telling me, no, like, you know, people go, okay, that's great, Holly. Okay, that's great, Jesse. But like, how do you hire slow? And why wouldn't you just bring that person on? You know?

Like, yeah, well that's a great question. And that's why for so many did. But guys, when you have a go south enough times or it's just not worth it anymore to rush the process, everybody is going to present their best foot forward in an interview. So whenever, when people say, like, how did the interview go? I don't really like to attribute much to how the interview went. I'm more about like, how quick did you respond to my emails? Did you send me a follow up, thank you. Which I feel like is a lost art. Were you communicative if you were running late, did you show up early? I'm more looking at what you're, how you're being instead of what you're doing in that interview. Because everybody can show up and present what you want to see in an interview. Also people said, well, did you call their references guys? They choose who their references are and references can't say anything negative. So why would I call? I mean, maybe sometimes here and there I will, but I look at their resume. How long have you stayed at companies? How are your emails? To me, those are the things I'm looking for because I don't know, I mean, I'm going to interview you, but I'm going to take it with a grain of salt. And I honestly, if I have the time and I'm really curious, I'll call a reference. Otherwise it's just not worth my time.

I'm pretty sure that that was the conversation I had on last week's episode about like references that, like, that's not really something I, you know, because I was kind of talking about this, the operating procedure of, like, hiring somebody and, you know, saying, like, you can ask for references, but exactly what you just said, like, you're going to obviously pick the best people or someone who you think is going to speak highly of you. You're not going to pick the person who fired you, you know, and also, you know, what is that reference going to tell me that's going to shape my decision? Like, I need to spend time with the person. Like you said, it's very energetically based, and I really is. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, like, I know right away when I talk to somebody, you know, people said to me, they're like, your. Your hiring process is like. They were like, it was so weird that, like, it was very conversational based and like, you didn't. Like, I have therapists working on my team because I live in a different state now that I have never met in person. And I had drinks with one of them when I was in Maryland a couple weekends ago. She was like, I can't believe that, like, I've worked for you for this long and, like, I've never met you in person. And now we're sitting here having drinks. And I was like, yeah, but you know what? It is, like, it's exactly what you said. As soon as I start talking to somebody, either the energy is aligned or it's not. And that's that intuitive piece that's knowing, like, oh, yeah, this is someone who can represent my company. This is someone who understands who we are, who could be a part of this team, who carries forward the values that we put forward on our, you know, on our. In our team and even me individually as a human, like, if. If I can't hang with you, if, like, then you're not right for my business, because that's who people are. That's what someone's expecting when they come to my business. You know, like, I'm not this large conglomerate of 75 practices with a very old, you know, approach to therapy. Like, no, this is like your Fox, right? And I am, you know, little sprout, but it's my face on it. And so people want me, they expect me. And so they're not getting me because I'm not treating right now like they're getting my team. And that has to reflect me.

It does. At the end of the day, if something goes south, it's your. You're the one that needs to answer for it. And it's really, really important that the team that's representing the company represents us in a way that's important to me. I always say that if a family is coming to Fox, this is not for fun. It's not a dance class, it's not soccer practice. They're coming to us because their child needs help. And if that family is a difficult family or not a difficult family, they all deserve grace. And I want therapists representing us that have the ability to have that patience and that grace and hold that space for that family. And the therapists at Fox do I. It has taken me time, but we have the most beautiful team. Everybody is so supportive of one another, and they're so good to the families. And the admin and the therapist collaborate and work well together. But it took a lot to figure out what we needed to do to cultivate that. But now that I have, I am so protective of it. Even if the best hire on paper presents themselves, if the energy could be thrown off, it's just, I can't say yes. I can't say yes. Even if it's hurting the company in the process, because it might help the company in the moment, but it will hurt the company in an even more damaging way if you let someone come in and disrupt that energy or if you know they're not going to stay for a long time. Because at least in our company, turnover is hard, especially in this profession. It's just happening. But it's hard on the clients, first of all. It's hard on the team. It's hard on the company as a whole. It's just really hard. So we have to be very mindful of the decisions that we're making when we're creating the teams that we're creating. And part of that is hiring slow. If we were hiring for an occupational therapist right now, and we had an applicant and she emailed in and Bree emailed her back and said, jesse, I just haven't heard back from her yet. I'll follow up with her again on Mondays and. No, you won't. No, you won't. Yeah, we're not going to chase her. If she wants to work here, we will hear from her. And that's great. And if it's we're not the right fit, that's fine. Maybe she found something else. Maybe, whatever. But I used to have a desperation when I was hiring and a fear that if I didn't hire soon, something would go wrong. And now I just trust the process.

So I love that. The whole trust the process thing is also like working from that place of fear, like as you know, we've talked about these things too. Do is you. Your vibe, you know, your. Your vibe attracts your tribe, so it's like you're gonna attract those people who basically match the energy you're putting out. And so if you're, like, hiring from that place of, like, fear and like, we gotta get this done. And there's nothing wrong with having, you know, the motivation or having the. What's the word I'm looking for? Like, when you want to, like, get something done and, you know, you move the drive. The drive and, like, focus. Yeah, yeah. Like, there's nothing wrong with having that, but you gotta have, like, the right energy surrounding it. Right. And it's. I think it's the fear of, like, oh, my gosh, we don't wanna lose patience. Oh, my gosh. There's all sitting on the waitlist. Oh, my gosh. The kids are getting the help they need. And I think there's a. It's hard to balance that when you're just starting out and you haven't really done a lot of hiring or maybe you have your first person leaving your company and you have to replace them. You're kind of in this, like, oh, crap mode. Like, yeah, like something like. And, you know, and it doesn't feel great because, like you said, we have all these different moving pieces. And one of the biggest things is making sure that we continue to live to deliver a high level of therapy to our patients. And we're not talking about just, like, patients we see, like, you know, randomly here or there, and, you know, it's okay if it's a new person the next time. No, like, we see our patients sometimes once, twice a week. You know, we are building rapport with them. We're building relationships. It takes time to build rapport, especially with certain children. And then, you know, it's like, okay, great. And so like, these parents are kind of like, oh, okay, another new therapist. Well, now we have to take weeks to get comfortable with that therapist. And that's money spent and time spent. And we, you know, what if they lose skills and, you know, and these parents fears are real. And it's like, yeah, it's like we kind of want to massage that as much as we can and try to avoid, you know, when I do this, I try to be really strategic about how we go about it for the families so that they feel very supported and that they're. Their concerns are heard. They're very valid, but that we try to minimize that as much as possible.

And listen, this is a really big juggling act, and it's a really big problem. So I want to make it clear. I do trust the process. I don't hire fast, but that doesn't mean I'm just sitting back thinking this OT is going to pop into my lap when the time's right. I mean, I had a meeting just yesterday with my management team about where else are we advertising, what schools are we calling, how many places are we posting? We're very actively behind the scenes thinking, how can we get the word out there? But the thing with the families, it's really, really hard right now. We have families waiting to be treated, and I don't expect them to wait forever. They have children that need to be receiving services. And it also impacts where, you know, we have great relationships with the doctors in the community. If they can't refer to Fox because I don't have someone to treat, that means they're going to start referring elsewhere, and I'm risking that relationship. It's very much a domino effect. But my other choice is to hire someone that I don't feel in my gut is right for the team. And then the family is like, we're having a new therapist again when that person leaves. And then I have upset families because of turnover. So I don't want to say you're damned if you do if you're damned if you don't, but it is a little bit like that. So you just have to pick globally, what is the better decision for your team? And as much as I love these families and I want them taken care of, I really want to protect my team, and I don't want them to feel like they're trying to sustain a certain culture in the company and it's being disrupted as well.

Yeah, yeah. There's, like you said, there's just so many, like, moving pieces on all ends of this conversation. And, you know, I think when you're. When you put your heart into it, right. And you really put the families first and you put your team first, and you have this, you know, this culture that you have created and you've worked really hard to create it, and you want to maintain and protect that, I do also think that comes through. I do think that your team sees that and they appreciate business owners who, who act that way. Right. And they also, you know, families see that. And at the end of the day, some of these children are going to be out of therapy soon, and some of these children are going to be in therapy for a very long time, depending on their Needs and what they're in therapy for. And I think it becomes part of life. And as it happens more, I hate to see that say this, but it becomes a little bit easier for the business owner and the families and the therapists and, you know, so then it really just comes down to making sure you go about it the right way. And I do believe there is a right way and a wrong way. And I think hiring fast just to hire and plop a therapist in is not ever the right way. There's a practice that I won't name in one of the areas where my business operates. And, you know, they'll hire therapists and who I've also interviewed who are very open with me will say, oh, yeah, well, I'm also hiring with this other company. And I'll be like, okay, like, no worries. Like, you let me know. Because like you said, I'm not going to chase you. You need to figure out what's right for you, what makes the most sense for you. The last thing I want to is even if a therapist feels like the right fit for me, but they are like, oh, you know what? I need a 401k and I need a guaranteed salary. And I. And I'm like, well, I hire contractors. That's not a good fit, right? It just end of the day now, I've had some of them come back around and kind of go like, hey, is there a position for me? You know, but some of these companies will just hire to fill a spot, and they will sell everything under the sun to that therapist to be like, I'm going to mentor you in this, and you're going to have a caseload with kids that have that and, you know, da, da, da. And then they get in there and they get the complete opposite experience, and that's not good for anybody. And so for me, having seen that firsthand and kind of going like, wow, like, just because this company takes insurance, like, that doesn't mean that you can treat families this way. And it's not my job to fix that. That business is not my business. It's not my problem. It hurts my heart that that kind of stuff happens, but I think that everyone needs to know it happens. And so when you have a business owner like yourself, like myself, like others that I know who really work from a place of, we need to hire so that this is a therapist that I would have treat my child with that issue, right? Like, I. If I can't treat the therapist on my team to treat my child, I'm not Hiring them, they're not going to get them for my kid. Then I'm not going to, you know, put them with your kid either. So, you know, I think it just really speaks volumes when you can also be with. Open with families. And I've had some families where this transition has been really tough for the child or even the parent. Sometimes more the parent than the kids. Sometimes.

Well, the parents get so fear for. Fearful for the kiddo. Yeah, the kiddo. Turns out they're fine.

Yeah.

But it is, it's really hard on the parent.

Well, like the medically, like we have some kiddos who are more medically complex and the history is lengthy and deep. And it's like every time there's a new therapist, it's kind of like, oh, goodness, here we go. I have to try and explain my child to this therapist again. And I think part of that, again, also comes from just experiences with other therapists who haven't understood that child. Not necessarily like in my practice, but in other, you know, whether it's in the school system or another practice or different, you know, type of professional that they are working with. And so it's like parents will latch onto somebody who gets their kid and who listens to them and who trusts them and who they can trust because there is this kind of that, like, reciprocal relationship when working with a lot of our little ones. And that's just part of the job. Right. And that's part of. Don't get into this profession if you're not interested in that because, like, that's necessary to make progress.

Yeah.

So, you know, and with healthy boundaries, of course. But, you know, it's, you know, we really do kind of put a lot into these relationships. And, and that's why I love how, you know, you're talking about hiring. You're like the person who fills this role on my team. Like, they also need to be this for the family. It's not just like, yeah, 12 o', clock, deliver your therapy for X number of minutes, leave at this time and move on to the next one. Like, is that maybe how it appears from the outside? But there's so much more that gets poured into it when it's a hard job.

You guys, it is, it's first of all just doing the therapy itself.

Right.

You need to have this toolbox of things to pull from and this knowledge, being able to pivot on the moment. But you're holding emotional space for these children and for these families. You're part of a team. You're on their journey. Helping their child. So there's the emotional component and you're performing because if we're not on, the child's not engaged. So it is draining. And that's not, that's not lost at me for me at all these therapists, they do, they do a lot. And I went back into therapy, I treat a little bit three days a week because I missed that interaction. I really do get something out of just the one on one with the families. But that's hard too because then I'm treating and then I step out my 30 minutes and I'm a business owner and then I go back into treatment and you know, wearing different hats is, it's a lot. It's hard, but it is part of what our profession is.

Yeah, well. And I think, you know, like, we all need to do what, what feels good for us. Right. And I think that's hard even as a business owner because you're like, you want to give that same advice to your own employees, but you're like, please never leave me. I know.

Do what feels good at fox. Yeah, you should do everything your heart tells you to do as long as it doesn't take you away from fox.

As long as it's here. But let's go back to like the whole hiring slow process because think a lot of people are going to get tripped up on that, especially if they like never heard of that before. And I have like the most beautiful example of this. So I had a therapist who's on my team, Nadine, who, whom tagged me yesterday in a post because she's been now one year in my practice, one year in Maryland. She moved across the country, left her full time job like, and totally changed like everything she was doing. I mean she was doing pediatric feeding or working with medically complex kiddos and everything and, and is now, you know, one of my top feeding, like full time feeding and myotherapists. And it was sort of this like testament to like, you know, thanking me for waiting because I think when I spoke to her it may have been like April of 2022. And she was like, okay, well like I, like we had a couple conversations and I knew early on I was like, she's somebody that I want on my team because like just that energy and her passion for what she did just, you know, value wise, like everything was so aligned and you know, said to me she was like, well I, you know, I'd be moving across the country, like, let me see if I can pull this off. And like when. And she came back and it was like, okay, like, I can do this in three months. And I was like, okay, all right. Three months it is because, you know, it's, it's worth waiting for the right person. And that I think it is. Yeah. Kind of like that whole hiring slow. Like you might find them now, but they may not be available for five months or they may not be available for three months. It feels like a long time while you're waiting. The time goes fast in the beginning and it's, it's so worth it in the end.

I think that's a really good point. I think that we all need to be aware that when you're hiring somebody and you say, how long till you start? Your response you want from them is, my contract that I sign honors a 30 day. If they're like, but I can leave in two weeks. You don't want them. You want them to honor the company they are leaving. You want to see who they are as a person. And the other thing, it's worth it. Listen, we asked for a 30 day at Fox, but when I'm the one receiving someone who wants to give a 30 day or two months, like, it's a long time to wait and it's, it's hard, but it's. That's who you want. You want someone that's going to honor your request coming on to your team as well. The other thing I want to say about hiring and is don't try to be something you're not lot when you're explaining who your company is. I am a company that I'm family owned. This business is my third child. This is the business I had instead of my third child. It really means a lot to me and I used to try to keep up with the Joneses as far as the companies around me. And I, I just have given that up. I know what I can offer my employees and if that's what they want, I'm here. But I am probably. I try to be really competitive, but I'm probably more middle of the road for salary. I do offer salary because as a therapist, I want them to not, you know, right now, it's summer and we're slow and sucks, but they're still getting paid because they're employees and it's very, very family friendly and family feel in the clinic. And if they come to me with a passion, I will do whatever I can to support them. Training in that and whatever it is they want to be trained in and then trying to find those clients for them. And I will Support them as much as I can. But I do make it clear like at the end of the day it's also a business but they need to be seeking out what I'm offering and if they're seeking out what one of these big companies that have multiple locations across the state are offering, that's just not me. But I'm not going to try to compete with that anymore either. I'm going to seek the people that are looking for what I do offer.

Yeah. As a small company and I think that's a really great point because I think a lot of speech pathologists are more small business owners than these large companies. I actually think there's a heck of a lot more of us that have small, like more family focused, oriented.

Not where I am, Holly. I think I'm one of, there's a few but I have just surrounding me some of these bigger companies. I have a Corticon and Easterseals and Slea and I just like Easter Seals.

Yeah. I mean so some of those are.

They'Re all like right there, someone looking where I am is also Cortica is just a two miles away and Easter Seals is five miles away and Slea is just, you know, 10 miles away. So I'm up against these big companies and it's a challenge, but I'm just, I'm just not them. I don't bring in what they bring in and I don't have the contracts they have, so I can't offer what they have. But I can offer, you know, a tight knit family feel. And I honestly care about the people that work for me, like each one of them individually. I do care.

I know you talked about it so I can vouch for that.

I do care. So I think you just have to be proud of what you do offer and own it and don't have the desperation to bring on people that aren't looking for you just because they're looking for a job right now and you're looking to fill because if you're not aligned they're going to keep looking and you're going to have turnover.

Yeah. It's gonna bite you in the butt at some point.

Yeah, it really is.

Yeah. And you know, and I, I guess like we would have to like dive deeper into like how many of those types of businesses exist versus like individuals and smaller practices in the US But I do feel like there's been this like huge push of so many SLPs to just go out on their own and see their own caseloads and that's kind of more of what I'm referencing too, because, like, in the dmv, if I had known, I've said this like a bazillion times on my podcast. If I had known how many private practices there were in a five mile radius around me, I don't know that I ever would have started one because, you know, but I just was like, I knew what I stood for. I knew what I wanted to do differently that I didn't feel like I was seeing out in the market. And, you know, I think that's where I was. Like, blinders on, head down, I'm just gonna go out and do what I do best. And for me, that was very therapy driven. And because of the service I was delivering, delivering to my patients, that's where word of mouth has built my business over the years. And then now with my online business, it's like therapists now seek me out because they want.

Yeah.

You know, they want to work with the team and learn from us and everything. Which, you know, it's both a beautiful thing and a really tricky thing at the same time. Right. Because I get a lot of emails all the time and like, there's no way that I could ever, you know, take on everybody who emails us. But we're also not a brick and mortar. Like, we travel to our patients. And I will tell you, I will say, like, Maryland was probably one of the last states to kind of come out of this pandemic. And just a lot of people didn't want extra humans in their homes or in the classroom or in a school setting. And that's really where we provide our therapy. It was hard enough for us to get back into those places as a training therapist. So that's also been an additional challenge. And, you know, one of my therapists, like, was basically a team lead and was doing a ton of mentoring and, like, wants to do more of that. And so we're kind of trying to see, like, can we implement something like that with some of these programs that will offer a stipend so that, like, because my therapists need to get paid if they're going to mentor. And that's a conversation. But anywho, you know, it's. I've also had a lot of therapists come to me so they can take my courses, see a couple of patients, and then kind of like, peace out and open up their own private practice. And I've had people, yeah. Say to me, they're like, well, doesn't that bother you? And I'm. I'm like, you know what? It's not that I expect it, but at the end of the day, people are going to do what they want to do anyways. And this is also why I've changed my. My hiring practices and why I, you know, now I ask different questions than I used to ask because I have been. I've been burned a couple times by some, like, illegal activity. Whether we won't go into, like, done by a therapist, like, that's happened. That was, like, very much earlier on. And I've even been burned late, like, recently by, you know, a therapist that I thought was, like, one of our, like, best team members, but apparently not. So, like, shit's going to happen, and sometimes things are going to happen. You're going to be like, I didn't see that coming from, like, you know, well.

And I mean, maybe that. I mean, you know my stories. I've been burned, too. I used to hire a new grad. I would be her CF mentor. But then I'd also get them a MYO training and then mentor them in MYO as well. And one time someone quit right after their CF and said, I didn't care what you paid me. I wanted you to be the one that trained me. And now I've been trained by you, and I'm going to go start my own practice after nine months. And, I mean, that was. That really burned in the moment, but it really changed my approach now. It's. I'm not just here to build you up, but I need the same type of loyalty and respect as well. So we have, every time something goes wrong, make a policy.

Right?

Make a policy about how you're going to handle it differently. So now, if anybody wants to become a myofunctional therapist, I will get you trained and I will support you after you've been with the company for a year.

Yeah, yeah.

There's just certain things you have to implement, but as you get burned, I think it makes it easier to do this higher, slow buyer, fast, because you know what it feels like, like, to work from fear and how many times.

You end up, you know, what it feels like to be used. There's no way around that. That, you know, that person straight up used you and that, you know, and it does feel like. And at the end of the day, like, I'm also the most giving, like, person I know. You're a very giving person, too. So to be, like, walked all over like that when, when. Because someone knows you're a giving person, it's just not kind. It's not good juju. It's not good karma. It's gonna. I always go like, I write it off to universe and I go like, the universe is going to take care of that. And usually it's like, usually it does.

I'm like, that's not my problem. Karma will do her thing. I'm gonna just sit back and stay in my lane, and people will come to me and they'll say like, did you see this? And you see this? I'm like, I don't care. I don't want to know. It doesn't impact me at all. Let's just keep moving forward. But yeah, I mean, it does happen. It happens in business. I don't think it just happens in our field. It happens in business. So it's gonna hurt. The scar will stay. But you just have to make different choices going forward to not put yourself in the same situation.

And I will tell you, there are people who have been in the industry for longer periods of time than us that have really hardened because of the same kinds of experiences. And I think that this is twofold, right? It's like, well, we want to mentor and we want to open the gates, and nobody wants to be a gatekeeper. I mean, maybe some people do. I don't. I know you don't. But at the same time, there has to be that trust and there has to be that like, two way, energetic exchange of like, okay, yes, you're working for me and seeing patients and is making my business money. But then for you to go take everything from my practice, that's against the contract you signed and go do your own thing after I've given you, like, literally everything, you know, that's. That's never okay. And. No, it's happening a lot.

It is. And listen, in California, we just. Business owners don't have a lot of rights and we don't have a lot of protection, so there's not much we can do. And then you even see these people. You know, we work hard to get reviews for our company, and they'll copy and paste the reviews they got in your company and push it on their new websites, which is illegal.

That's not okay. That's never okay. It actually, that's like ip. It basically belongs to the business.

Oh. I mean, Holly, I've seen them take phone numbers out of our EMR system. Like, there's so much illegal activity going on. But you somebody actually ask like, my.

EMR to Transfer 5. They're new in the same company. And I was like, you did what? I'm like, you know there's HIPAA law, right? Like, like you can't.

And I mean so much going on.

They were like, why? Like the EMR was kind of like, what are you talking about? Like I wasn't, I didn't even have to be concerned. Aside from the fact that it was like someone actually thinks they could do this. Like, and this is not a. Yeah, this wasn't a young therapist either. This was like a middle aged woman. And I was like, what is happening?

Right, yeah, yeah, listen, it's really, it's a really different time and it's really, you can get burned so easily and sometimes just implementing our policies on part time makes somebody quit in the moment because they don't want to adhere to the PTO policy, but they also want to be a salaried employee. And it's just, it's a really fine line to walk. And if you try to say I used to say yes way too often and then have to backtrack, that's not good for anybody, it's not good for the employee, it's not good for the company. So you really just have to say, this is what I'm trying to create and I will stay the course and believe in myself and trust the right people are going to come. It might not be when you want them to come, but every single time someone who wasn't right for the company has left, they have been replaced by somebody where I can look back and go, I get it.

Yeah, the universe had bigger plans for you. Yeah, there was a reason for that. Well, and I think you hit it on the head. Trust, Trust, like that key word trust, like if you don't trust yourself, if you don't have self trust, you know, meaning like you don't trust your own beliefs, like your own ability to grow. Like if you don't even trust yourself, if you're not integral with yourself, you don't have self integrity. Where are you? Who are you? Right, like you, that has to be in place. You have to be able to rely on yourself and not seek these like outside influences and sources and decisions from other people on like what to do. And I think once you get to that point of being able to truly trust yourself and trust your intuition, like and you know we can go into like intuitive awareness and that's like a whole nother level, a whole nother conversation. But it's like once you get like you keep working on yourself as a human, like aside from being a business owner, just a human, and you start to Turn inward. I think that's also where you start to build a more sustainable, like, practice that speaks to what we're talking about, where you can hire slow. And you do know what you're looking for. Because I think, think this will strike up. Like, people have questions, go, well, well, how do I know if it's, like, the right person? How do I know if I should wait three months? How do I know this? How do I know that it's not really something that I can tell someone like, oh, check these check boxes, right? No, it's. You need to know what your top values are. You need to know what your company represents. You need to know what specialty you want them to have or be working towards that. They don't have it yet. Like, their interest needs to match that, you know, and not because they just want to work for you, but, like, because they truly, deeply are. Like, I'm seeking a position, whether it's with you or someone else, where I can grow into this role, this person, this being. Right. You said, like, it's. Who are they being? Because otherwise I feel like, you know, it's not there.

So let's just lay it all on the table. Holly, I know you haven't shared because it's. You're protecting me. But I came to you, I don't know now, six months to a year ago, and I said, hallie, I want you to business coach me. And it has nothing to do with our field. So Hallie is currently my business coach right now. But what I wanted to do is everything that you're just talking about. So I. I hired from fear. I made decisions from fear. My company was suffering. The team wasn't who I wanted it to be. And I was desperate. I had urgency. I had so much fear. And I, at some point was literally on my knees as a business owner going, what the hell am I doing? This is not how I want to live my life. Not as a business owner, but not as a human, not as a mom. This isn't what I wanted to do. So I slowly started just investigating ways to do my own inner work. And that's been my journey for a good handful of years now. So I called you when I said, holy shit. My inner work is what has allowed my company to succeed and change. It wasn't because I just made different decisions. It's because those decisions were being made based off the inner work that I was able to do as a person. So that took me into my next passion of I want to work with women in leadership positions. Whether it's in our field or outside of our field, and whether it's business ownership or growth in the company or being a leader at your home, I don't care. Leadership. You can't do what you're intending to do if your inner self is hurting and suffering. So it really, for me is doing that inner work and guiding people through that that has allowed me to create the business to where it is now that I'm so proud of. But it was releasing a lot of limiting beliefs and fears and triggers. I would get so triggered by people's reaction, and I would be immediately defensive, and I who's that serving? That's serving nobody. So it was really doing the inner work that allowed me to come to this place of it's okay to hire slow. It's okay to fire someone if you know it's damaging the company, and it's okay to let the process unravel and. And trust that it's going to work out for the highest good of everybody. But that takes work and practice and commitment.

Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, it's not something that I don't. I mean, I've spent a little bit of time here and there talking about it, but when I got into this space. Right. So I launched my. My private practice June 2014, and at a certain point I kind of went, you know, I want to have an online business. And I hired a coach, and I try to follow their advice, and they kind of, you know, it was on me because I listened to them, but I basically was kind of steered away from what I intuitively thought I should do towards what they said would be a good, better business decision. And it failed. And most people don't know this about me. Like, I actually launched a course trying to help families navigate the IEP process. And I was damn proud of that course because I come out of the schools, I sat on side of that table, and now I was actually being that. Like, that SLP was like, advocating basically for free. I mean, they would pay me to attend the meetings, but, like, I was like semi being an advocate, which people pay a lot of money to hire, you know, for these families to help them navigate, like, what they could ask for their child and, you know, basically craft an IEP that would actually serve their kid in the public schools. And here I am literally giving this course away for like 100 bucks or whatever it was at the time. And I think I had, like two sales. I was, like, running Facebook ads and doing all the things, but I was doing it all on my own. And. And, you know, I loved what I was doing, but it was not what I set out to do. That wasn't the course that I felt called to actually create at the time. And so, you know, I let that go. I really kind of honed in on my business, and at a certain point, I met a colleague who had gone through Jim Fortin's program. I fell into his TCP program, and I was like, oh, yeah, I'm getting into this for business. It's gonna be so good. I started taking this course and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I got. I got work on myself. And like, here I am. Like, I had been like a network marketer. I had read like all those SEL books, all the things. So I thought I was so good in golden and, like, in the best place. Yeah, no, I was far from that because a lot of what I had learned and dove into there are great reads and they're awesome, you know, an awesome part of my journey. But, like, I hadn't done the deep inner work.

Yeah. So what are you going to do with the knowledge? Someone said to me, jesse, what. What course did you take or what? You know, do you have a book recommendation for me to be, you know, a good boss? Like how you're leading your company? And I said, you can take a course and you can read a book, but if you don't do the inner work, you're going to implement whatever you learn from an inauthentic place. And it's not. It's not about any of that. It's really, really, truly starts with you and what's happening inside of you. And it will help your business and it'll help other aspects of your. Your life as well. Or when you're thrown with other curveballs, at least you'll be able to hopefully take them with a little bit more peace and trust.

And.

But it really does start with what's happening inside you. And if. If this isn't working, no matter what you're learning, it doesn't really matter.

Right.

Don't implement it from a place that's not authentic.

Right. Well, because it's like, who are you actually being, like, face forward to the world versus who are you being inside? Those need to match and, you know, and some of us have to work through a lot of crap that, you know, may have happened in your childhood. Maybe it helped in adulthood.

Maybe probably did happen in your childhood.

Yeah, a lot of it's childhood based. There's a lot of childhood inner Work that needs to be done for a lot of people. Even if you grew up in like a happy household, even if you grew up with, with everything you, your heart could possibly desire, that doesn't mean that there is an inner work in things. Because we're so programmed by those that are in our environment, whether it's, you know, parents, teachers, whoever we spend time around as a child, that we start to realize that a lot of who we are as an adult goes back to those individuals we were around. And it's like, of these are not even my beliefs. Like, I don't.

But yeah, subjective. So someone might have a much bigger on paper trauma than yours. That doesn't mean yours doesn't hold value and doesn't impact your life. It's completely subjective. It's how it impacted you and it's what you have to do to work through that that's going to allow you to show up to the rest of the world in whatever, you know, environment we're talking about with in a way that's gonna allow you to really be successful.

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I love these, like, very authentic conversations because I think that people don't really have a good grasp on the fact that people probably see me half the time and go, oh, she just took some money from her one business, threw it towards a new business and boom, now she's really successful. Like, yeah, okay, it can look like that from the outside, but in order to even know who I was and who I needed to be in order to make the right decisions, in order to invite the right people into my life, in order to hire the right ads team and, and even know what to say. Like, I remember my first meeting with the first copy team that I hired to like, write. They were writing like, sales ads and they were writing. What were they writing? Like, my emails and social media posts and stuff. And it was a big investment. And I'm like, I'm paying you guys all this money. What do you mean? You want me to tell you what to say? I don't know, that's why I hired you. And they're like, well, what do you do? And who are you? And I was like, oh, crap. Like, I was like, I gotta dive deep, all right? And I mean, and they even said to me, like, after like a year of working with them, they were like, do you remember our first, like, call with you in conversation? And I was like, yeah, because I'm a neurodivergent individual and you can't just spawn like these questions at me. And expect me to have an answer like, that's why I hired you. Because, like, it's not my strong suit.

Right?

I mean, so it's just been such like a learning journey to the point where, like, I can sit down and write my own copy now. Like, it's not easy for me. I can, I can say what I want to say. But like, for things to convert in business, sometimes it has to, you know, look a certain way or, or you need to kind of finesse it a little bit. Or it doesn't translate from my mouth to paper in the way that it may translate if you're hearing me on a podcast. Like, it doesn't, you know, when it's written on a page. And so there are certain aspects of being a business owner that you, you have, you keep learning and you keep growing. And I'm still on a journey as a leader, you know, like, one of my biggest things right now is continuing to evolve as who I am as a leader. Who am I being? How am I showing up for my team? Like, what does my team need from me and what do I need from them? And just like, better, you know, more communication. But again, sometimes shit really has to hit the fan, like in big freaking ways for you to invite them to.

You know, where Libby lives right now.

You know, I just went through this. I know that you're in this. It's like, have had these like, journeys this year that it's like, oh my gosh.

So let me ask you this because this has been a huge shift for me. When someone says to you, what do you do? How do you answer them now?

So if someone. So I've really tried to get it like under 30 seconds because I'm a long winded human and I start to realize I'm like losing people. So now people are like, oh, what do you do? I'll say like, oh, I'm an SLP by trade, but I own a continuing ed company and I also own a private practice like, you know, up north mostly in the dmv and like, that's my whole pitch. And then they kind of go, oh, well, like, what, like, what do you mean continuing ed? Or like, what do you, like, what is your practice doing? So then I'll be like, oh, my practice, you know, serves mostly pediatrics, but adults for this, like myofunctional therapy. But like we specialize in pediatric feeding therapy and you know, all the other SLP OT type of therapies too. And they'll be like, oh, that's really cool. Like tell me more about blah, blah, blah, you know, so, and then I like kind of let them like direct the conversation or like on the CEU side, like usually the conversation is like, oh, well, like what does that mean? Like you like have like a course. Because like I feel like people are like now like they understand what continuing ed is and they're seeing this bigger trend, I think, in the online space with courses and stuff. So people are like, oh, like a course. Or like I'm like, yeah, you know, I have like a course, you know, and a membership and then I launched another course and I've had like a mastermind and I do business mentoring and stuff and I try to just kind of leave it more general because I find like that it's hard, right? Yeah, it is, yeah.

I used to be able to just be like, oh, I'm a speech language pathologist. But now I feel like I identify more as a business owner. But for anyone out there that's starting their own business or running a business, I want to make it really clear, like this is not a linear move to becoming a speech therapist. As therapists, we, we're here to help and to make people happy. And as a business owner, that can't always be what you're doing. So going from SLP or otier, whoever, myofunctional therapist to business owner, this is not an easy continuum to go on. It is, it can be a shit show. It's really, you're learning this whole new trade, but you're not going to get to go to school for it. No one's going to teach you what to do. You're going to make a lot of mistakes. That's why to me, coaching is a no brainer. I've made that decision several years back that, that my money will be spent on my kins and my coaching because that's what I need more than anything. Why would I do any of this alone if I don't have to? Because it's such a journey and that this whole other profession that you're taking on, that's really very complicated and you're never going to know everything you need to know. And to go from therapist to running a business is night and day.

Yeah, well. And I think at the end of the day, if you hire the right person that you're aligned with, I also think that person should help you move the needle forward faster in the sense that like, that's why you're hiring them. And so you should be like getting your money back. Right. Or you should at least be feeling like, okay, this was a good investment. And I feel like I've made more money in my business than I would have made on my own. And obviously we have no way of, like, actually knowing, like, if you would or wouldn't necessarily. Sometimes there could be certain key factors you can put in place, but that's more of, like, a feeling than a nuanced thing. Like, you know, that's super measurable. But a lot of, again, is intuition and how do you feel?

And for that, how you said you have to, it has to be the right coach, guys. Because I too, have had coaches that my intuition wasn't really honored and my emotions were told to kind of stay at bay and to just do what I say. And I did that, and it did not work out.

So in my opinion, the best coach is not somebody that tells you what to do, but is somebody who shows you the way and not hold your hand, but, like, is alongside you in a sense, as you go through that journey. And they're. That's the person that you can fall back on to be like, hey, I'm having a shit day. Like, how would you deal with this? You know, and they may give you some ideas, but, you know, while I will share stories of, like, experiences I've had, because I think that helps connect and give people, like, their own ideas start to generate. Like, people are like, oh, talking about herself. And it's like, no, I'm not doing that because I want to be like, oh, I can resonate with this. No, I'm saying that because I know it's going to kick up a different part of your brain, and you're going to start to go like, oh, you know what? Okay, maybe if we try this, like, you're going to start to think about what might work for you, or you might be like, you know what? That's a great idea. I didn't think of that. And you may run with it, and that's okay, too. But there should. A coach should never, ever. I've learned this a hard time. Like, what to do. You know, look, of course there's. There's coaches out there. There's courses that are going to say, oh, yeah, the standard operating procedure for, like, starting a podcast or for starting a business looks like this. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about, like, you know, not like the how to's, but, like, when it really comes down to the pieces where intuition plays such a big part. Like, what is it you want to do? What do you want your name to be? How do you want to be forward facing to the world? Who are you? You being like, who do you have to step into to fulfill this role and even attract your, your tribe? Right. You know, you guide but you don't like.

Yeah. You honor who the. You need to learn who the person that you're coaching is and then honor that person and help them achieve what it is that they want to achieve and then use your background and your knowledge to help them reach that. How you made a comment earlier, Holly, about it might look like you pulled money from this business and you threw it into this business. Social media really makes it really hard for people because you see things on social media or you see things on a website and it looks pretty and shiny and kind of like you just knew what to do and you threw it together. But that's not the case. And until you and I started working together more closely, like I didn't know any of the backstory or the trials that you went through and the successes and the things that didn't succeed. But there's so much more than to what a person's presenting, the, the presentations, the end result that they work their ass off to achieve and then that still pivots.

Right? Right.

You know, yeah.

And yeah. And it's as you know, they say, more money, more problems. Right. It's. I don't really love that saying, but what I do think it speaks to is like the more you make, the bigger your business grows, the more people it takes to run that business, the more humans that are involved, the more energy. Right. It can work beautifully but you're going to learn a lot of things along the way. And I don't know any business owner anywhere who will tell you that they have never had a hiccup ever in their business. So it's like when you go into business ownership, like it's, it's not because you know, yes, there's the beauty, the pros of like working for yourself and making your own hours and having the flexibility like my kid's sick, I'm gonna go pick them up or I get to go to their school play or whatever. Right. You know, I hear so many people say like I'm gonn because quality of life, guess what people, if you want to be a business owner, it better not be for quality of life because you're going to work more and harder probably than you ever have before if you want to succeed, especially in the beginning. And then once you know, at least in this realm, once you're there and you have the, like, the funds, the finances to then hire more people to help you and you can start to step away more. There's going to be other trials and things that happen.

Yeah.

Because also that changes the dynamic. And I've had people come to me and go, hey, I'm burnt out. But I love my business and I can't walk away from it because it's my income. And I support these individuals who have, you know, this is their income. But, like, I don't know, yesterday, I kind of don't want to just call it quits and help Allie, like, help me. Right. And I can't tell you how many SLP private practice owners have come to me with this conversation where it then becomes about, you know, it's okay to not treat anymore or it's okay to not show face in your practice every day. It's okay to work from home three days a week if that's what you desire. And that's what your schedule.

That's a whole conversation in itself, though, because I have done that where I'm not in there every day. But that doesn't mean I don't feel guilt.

Right, right. That's.

There's. And then you transition from being really involved. And, you know, we were just away from my daughter's dance competition, and someone said to me, so. So you just don't have to be in your business every day. And they said, no, we're really fortunate. We grew to a size where I have a clinical director and she's incredible, and she handles it down, and that's great, but that doesn't mean I'm not checking my phone. We have a chat system within our community. I'm always looking at that. You're always stepping in. And at the end of the day, if there's a fire that needs to be put out, it's. You're never off the clock.

Yeah.

You're never not working. And the emotional weight of it all is just bigger because you're the end of the line.

Yeah. Yeah. So. And I think also, like, that's where, like, the hiring stuff is, like, going back to the beginning of our conversation, like the bane of our existence at times. Because whether you're growing and you need to hire for that or someone's, like, transitioning out of your practice or whatever the case may be. It's just like, if you guys can hear that thunder. Oh, wow, it's really loud. It's one of those things. Squirrel. It's one of those things where, you know, I think hiring is something that is always, always present in a business. Once you decide it's more than just you. And so, and once you want to grow, you want to grow beyond six figures, you're likely looking at hiring. Even if it's a virtual assistant in an online business. You know, you're. There's no reason for you to do it by yourself at that point. Like, otherwise, you're literally working around the clock in most business.

Yeah, it's just not worth it. Your time is money and it is valuable and you have to decide what's worth it for you to take on and what you can outsource. And even with my clinical director, she worked for me just a few hours a week for a couple years. And then one day, intuitively I remember exactly where I was. I was driving, I was in the passenger seat and I said, I need a clinical director and I want it to be Bri. And I called her and I like pitched her and it took me a while and coincidentally she was at a point with her company where she was looking to transition on but knew she wanted more of a management role. So it just, I knew and it took. We did some back and forth, but I just followed my gut and I called her and I would say to her when she worked very part time for me, I said, one day I'm going to get you full time. One day I'm going to be able to afford you.

One day.

One day, Bri. And then, you know, I followed my intuition and I called her and she came on first as the lead of the speech team and then we moved her into clinical director and that's. I didn't post for that job. I followed my gut in hiring for that position because that's a huge position in a company.

Hi, my COO who just joined our team, Taylor, recently, you know, back in like March, April, March, I think. Yeah, yeah. I didn't post for that job. I basically I posted for. About something else, I think. And then I don't even know. She and I were just randomly talking and I had just like gone through this exercise with my business mentor about like, okay, well who do I need? What does that look like? What do I need to pay this kind of a person? Like, you know, I've never hired a COO before. Like, obviously I know I need somebody full time in my business basically in the back end operations at this point. Like, that's probably overdue. I should have done it like a year ago. So, you know, firefast people hire slow, I guess. I hired real slow, but at the end of the day, it was like she just fell into. It felt like she fell into my lap.

Yeah.

Because I knew exactly what I needed. I put that out.

You didn't rush it.

Yeah, I manifested it. And then through just like a natural conversation. And I even said to him, I was like, this seems too easy. Like, I am. I just, like, am I moving too fast? He's like, well, you've needed a position like this for a year, so it's not that you're moving too fast. He's like, but the conversation just started, so. So, you know, he kind of guided me through, like, what? You know, have her take some, like, do the enneagram and do this and do that and just kind of see, like, who is she? Because, like, I knew her in a certain degree, but not to the degree that I would need her, like, on the running my business. Right. And so, you know, at the end of the day, I took. I took all the profiles back to him. I was like, here you go. And he was like, that is like, the most perfect match for this type of a position. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this works.

Yeah, but like, you. It was easy at the end, but it was also a year of you sitting on this.

And, yeah, it was sort of like, I kind of knew in my gut that, like, I needed somebody full time, but I loved the person who was working for me. And it was like. It wasn't until I realized that, like, a lot of things were kind of really messy behind the scenes that I didn't know about at the time, you know, a year and a half ago that I kind of came to know about, like, last August into, like, beginning of this year. And I kind of went like, oh, crap. Like, this really sucks. I gotta put on my big girl pants and, like, maybe do some shifting, do some hiring, do some firing. I don't know. And just, you know, not easy. It wasn't easy.

Nothing about it's easy easy. Yeah, it's never easy. But it feels better if you are in a more trusting, calm inner state.

Yes.

Otherwise it feels like 100% whiplash. I mean, it's really hard.

Yeah, well, and I'm glad that I didn't hire prior to when I did, because I don't think I was there yet. Like, intuitively I was not there yet. I was like, I know I need this. This there I'm being told I need this, but I think we got it. And then I was like, okay, we really don't Got it.

Crap. Yeah.

And that it was like, this whole, like, you know, set of emotions and working through it where I kind of, like, came to terms with the fact that, like, I needed somebody full time. They need to have a certain skill set. I kind of wanted this person to also understand our space, which I'm like, that's what, like. And she.

I mean, that's a lot.

Like, she's an SLP who was like, I don't.

Oh, she is.

She is. Yeah. She was like, I, like, want to move out of, like, treating right now and want to work more, you know, towards. Like, she's like, I still want to advance my, like, like, her understanding of, like, mayo and feeding and all that stuff. She's like. But I really want. She was working with adults, and she was like, I want to, you know, move into more of, like, a administrative type of, like, role right now in my life. And I was like, so by. And like, she, like, we were just having this conversation. I hadn't even said that I was hiring. Like, we're having this conversation. I'm sitting here going, like, did the universe just bring me, like, the perfect fit? Like, what is. Like, what is happening? And, like, we started talking, and the dollar amount that she, like, needed to make this happen was, like, within, like, a couple thousand dollars of, like, the amount that my mentor was like, this is what you pay somebody annually for this. And I was like. Like, I was just mind blown. I was like, holy crap.

Like, those are the best moments.

I was like, thank you, universe. More, please.

Yeah, I know those are the best moments, but it really goes to show what happens if you allow it to happen. And I'm in a really unexpected transition right now, where it is my nature to go, go, go, and if I have a vision to keep going and then to not stop, like, life throw stuff at me, but I am not going to stop. And you know, Hallie, I think it was just yesterday I sent you a message, and I said, I really need to pause this one part of my life right now. And it feels. Feels really uncomfortable because I've never done that, but I need to honor that. Other parts of my life right now need more space, and I'm pulling my brain in too many different directions. And that was a really hard thing for me. I did want. I was waiting for Holly to be like, this is what you stop. This is what you keep doing. And you. You gave me feedback, but it really. I have to empower myself and be like, this is the decision that I'm making And I'm still uncomfortable about it and I still question myself, but I just, I just have to trust that I'll get back to it when I can, instead of forcing myself to keep something going when I'm not authentically available for it. It's just not going to be successful anyways.

Yeah, well. And I think when you do try to force something, right, I think everything takes longer. And it's like if you can just kind of focus your energy where you're feeling like it needs to be at this moment end, it could be like two weeks from now where you're like, okay, I'm so glad I, like, hit pause because, like, I'm back, right? Or could be two months, right. But I think at the end, I think you're going to look back and you're going to be like, okay, I'm. I'm glad that that's kind of how I tackled this. Because otherwise we're like chickens with our heads cut off, like running around. Not like we can't, you know, just. It's just like way too much on your plate.

Like, it's too much. And then at the end of the day, yeah, you need to be someone that I need to keep my inner peace wherever I can. And at the end of the day, I want to show off as a mom. I want to show up as Right. And if I'm pulled in so many directions where I feel like I'm doing everything poorly, my kids are getting the worst of me, and then I'm just not okay with that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, hi. I wanted to, you know, I haven't done the episode on this yet. I've alluded to it a few times, but I wanted to light my business on fire, I don't know, back in like, February maybe. And my, my business coach was like, no, you're not going to burn it down because you've worked way too hard to get here. So we're going to figure out how. He's like. And he said to me, he was like, it's gonna suck probably for the next three months. And I was like, what?

I don't want.

I was like, that's why I started this. He was like, no, you basically need to revamp every single thing in the back end of your business. But that's why you're bringing on a full time CEO. You're gonna do it together, like all these. He was like, that's, you know, and he didn't like, say, you have to do this, this and that, but he was sort of like, let's take a deep breath. And I'm glad, like that he kind of guided me in this way because I, at the end of the day, I didn't actually want to burn it all down down. But in that moment, I was working like 80 hour weeks. My kids did not see me for like 3 solid months. My whole family was like, leave Halle alone. Shit's burning down. Like she, her attention needs to be on the business. And it was like to the point where it was like, you know that vacation that mama wants to take you on you if you want her to pay for that, like, you just gotta leave her alone. And I was like, okay, don't say that, because that's not really true. But at the same time it was sort of like, you know, how, how do you tell children, like, don't talk to your mother because she's not emotionally available to you right now because someone just left her and her business over badly, but she owns it, so she's got to put on her big girl panties and show up and fix it all.

And I think that's what's so important to know is as you know, you look at a business owner and you're like, that's so nice. You can take a vacation or that's so nice. You can pick your kids up from school. And it's all true. But there's also moments like that or right now I'm having moments with my business where I need to be, be more involved. And you never know when they're coming, but whenever they come, you better be available.

Yeah. So yeah, you know, there's seasons. Yeah, it's been like that in both my, my, in my private practice where I thought like that was good and golden. And then it pulls me in for a couple months and I'm like having to put my online business ventures on hold. Like my new things I'm working on. And people, if you've been following me since I launched my business, you've probably heard me say several times like, oh yeah, we're launching a pediatric feeding certification. You heard this with my MYO course. You heard this with my MYO certification. Like you, I say I'm doing this and sometimes even say like, you know what my goal is? Like, you know, early next year. And then like a year goes by and you're like, holly, like, what happened to that? You're like, life, life happened. And unfortunately I have to. Here's the thing, if I have something new that I want to put out there that isn't in the works yet, or that maybe is like at the early stages and something else happens in my business, my attention and energy and my team, everything is going to go to our current clients. It's going to go to the current business. Because we, like you said, we need to protect the team, the patients, the families we're working with, the clinicians who trust me with their money, with their time. You know, that that's first and foremost because they're already a part of this community. And my attention is going to go to the community that's already invested in me and that I am reciprocally invested in. After that, when I can get all my ducks in a row and move onward to now working on a new, new thing, then I will. And yes, I have teams of people, but if I don't have the brain capacity and my energy is not there, I'm not. I can't force it. It's just not who I am. And that's why sometimes, no joke, like we were messaging yesterday. I was like, jesse, there are things in my life that should have been launched a year and a half ago. And here we are, and we're in the beginning stages of starting to look into launching it. And you were like, okay, that makes me feel a little better, right?

Because, yeah, it made me feel so much better because I got the ball rolling. I've spent so much, you know, energy into this other business that I feel really passionately about. But all of a sudden, my life kind of just unexpectedly needed my full attention. And it's not like me to pause, but I'm like, hell, I'll. I'll try something new because this doesn't feel good. And I don't think I'm going to be successful in what I'm doing anyways because I'm not fully. Not fully in it. And there's a lot of fear involved of. It's more of a I should keep going. And should's just a word we don't need in our vocabulary on yourself. Yeah, exactly. So if I'm shoulding that I should do this, it's probably a good indicator that I need to pause.

Okay. To pause. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that's part of all.

Of it is at the end of the day, you're in charge of you. No one else is in charge of you. And I think that that's like the biggest life lesson that anybody can kind of learn is like, we drive our own ship and we make our own decisions. And, you know, that is both the beauty of being. It's like hurricane or something outside. That's both. The beauty.

It's so sad. I'm in California and Holly's in Florida, and our weather cannot be more different.

I'm like, if I could, like, turn my computer so you could. It's, like, dark and raining sideways and the trees are, like, flying sideways. I'm like, okay. My kids get on the campus to come home soon, so. Fun. Anyways, I'm, like, waiting for a text, then it's either delayed or. I don't know. Anywho. Hi, neurodivergent business owner here. Sidetracked. Yeah. So at the end of the day, all that to say, right? Like, we'll start wrapping up because we could talk about things forever, and we'll just have to bring you back for all these other fun business topics.

There's just so much to talk about with business. And I think, listen, this is a little bit of my soapbox. And you know this. When you're a woman business owner, your spouse is not at home typically. Maybe there's some. But your spouse is not typically at home. Making sure all the doctor's appointments are made and the orthodontist bonuses called and the teacher's getting the gift and the class party fund is paid and whatever. You are doing that, and you're running a business. And I just think a woman has more balls to juggle, and it's. It's a lot. So. Yeah. Putting things on hold sometimes, as much as you don't want to, like, ruin that momentum, you just have to. And you have to give yourself grace, you know, I don't feel. I feel guilty. We're human. It's so hard, though, to give yourself grace sometimes. But if I'm not picking my kids up from school enough or I'm not at my clinic enough, or I'm not treating my clients enough or holy hell, like, I'm supposed to take care of myself, too. You just. I mean, take a breath.

Last summer, I dropped off my kids and picked them up from the campus every single day for seven weeks this summer, I picked them up from the campus twice so far. And they're finishing their third week of camp up, and I think I've dropped him off once. And that was the morning that I was flying out to Maryland because I felt bad and was like. And also my husband was driving there for. There's that, you know, so it's like, seasons change, and I don't think that it makes you, like, any less of a parent. But, like, we create these stories and we Create these, you know, these versions of ourselves that we want to live up to. And, you know, I think that it just comes down to, like, we can do a whole episode on this, but just being super intentional with your time that you do have. And also sometimes hitting pause, like you said, and realizing, you know what, like, my attention right now needs to go here and here and this other thing, it's. It's just gonna have to wait until I have the capacity to come and. And I've done that as a business mentor. Like, I've paused and not taken any clients for months at times because I was like, I have a couple. I really only wanna work with a couple people right now. Like, I won't be able to. I could take their money. People are throwing it at me, me. But like, what. I don't have the capacity or the energy. And then it really. That's going to be me taking time away from my kids. And I don't want to do that. And that's the choice that. Thankfully I have that choice now. And I. It's much easier to make decisions from a place of what do I want versus, like, what do I need financially, because I think that's also like a whole nother episode and conversation.

I mean, that's a big deal too.

Yeah. So we'll have to continue that like part two in another day. But yeah, yeah, yeah, It's a lot.

It's a lot. But also, I think on the flip side, I really. As much as I feel like there's times I wish I was more available to my kids, I'm also teaching them that it's okay to do hard things and it's okay to struggle. And I don't try to hide it. I don't tell them all the details, but I sure don't try to hide everything. And.

And it's okay, you know, they're your dreams.

Yeah.

You want to do.

Yeah. I think it's great. Life lessons for them to understand. Yeah.

Yeah.

But you're right. It's all. We could talk about all of it.

I know.

For so long.

I know. We'll circle back. We'll do more of these at a later date. But thank you, Jesse, so much for joining me today.

Thank you for having me. It was so fun. I mean, trust yourselves. You guys trust when you're hiring because if it doesn't feel good, it's not going to end good.

Yes. Trust your gut. I love that.

Trust it.

Yeah.

Thanks, Hallie.

Thank you. Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you found value in this episode and want to hear more of these Myotots, Airway and Feeding related episodes. Be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode on your social media platforms. You can access free resources and all I offer@hallie balkan.com or pop over to Hollybalken on Instagram to get all the latest updates.