Episode 232: You Can Heal Yourself with John D McLaughlin RN, BSN, CFT Practitioner

Hi and welcome to episode 232 of the Untethered podcast. Today we have John McLaughlin joining us. John is the owner and CFT practitioner behind Midcoast Fascial Therapy in Jackson, Maine. He stepped away from critical care nursing after a decade of work in the fall of 2021, became the first and only CFT provider in Maine in 2022. He got into this world to help his own family and after day one of the CFT Foundation's course, he knew he had to bring it back to Maine and New England. Um, he quickly realized that Maine is large and New England is larger. So in order to make it more accessible to people, he started traveling around New England and bringing CFT to more individuals. He now works at a2 Chiropractic offices in Southern Maine along with his home office and he also offers in home visits all over New England. He's traveled to other states to offer CFT and continues to do what he can to fulfill his promise to bring CFT to as many people as possible in Maine and New England. Quick Disclaimer all information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Holly Balkan. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, airway tether, dural tissue and pediatric feeding therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019, thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode, remember to listen with correct oral rest. Posture, tongue up, lips closed, teeth apart, breathe through your nose. Let's get started. John, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, thanks for having me, Allie. I really appreciate it. Appreciate your time and energy.

Yeah, you as well. You know, I recently have fallen into this world of CFT and as I've started to follow more people online and ask people, you know, who should I be following? Your name was one of the first that came up.

Wow.

I mean, I saw some of what you were delivering online. I was like, we've got to talk.

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally appreciate that. Taking the time to read what I share, you know, it's all comes from the heart.

So I love that, I love that. So I would love to hear from your perspective, you know, in terms of, you know, what CFT is and really how you use it in, in your practice. Because I'm learning that it's very different based on the age groups or individuals that people work with. And it's not just one population. But really it sounds like everybody could benefit.

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. I definitely think it's, you know, you can treat the lifespan. It's definitely synonymous with like babies and tongue ties and oral dysfunction. And I don't know if that's just because Dr. Gillespie being a periodontist and really, you know, having that background, kind of his intentions came through that way. But also, you know, with fascial strain, if we can get on these babies sooner, then they're building their found, you know, they're building their house on a solid foundation. So if we wipe that strain away, you know, we can just maintain. You start accumulating fascial strain in utero and you're picking up everything your mom goes through during her pregnancy. And I like to believe that you're picking up everything she went through while she was in utero because you were part of your mom while she was inside her mom, you know, so there's a lot that just being born we need to, we need to work on and kind of wipe that out. So I definitely see a lot of babies and I see toddlers and a lot of people coming pre release, post release expansions, things like that. Personally, I have dove headfirst into a huge like inner healing, kind of working through my inner child and ancestral trauma kind of breaking cycles because I have two boys and I want to make sure that, you know, they don't have to shoulder anything that I had to. So I'm making sure that I'm that hard stop for them. And that has taken me deep into the somatic world and just releasing those emotional traumas which sit in the fascia and they have a memory. And personally I totally believe that those emotional traumas, they sit deeper and they sit longer, they're harder to get rid of because as adults, one, you have to agree to feel it, right? We have to go back to whatever that was, process it. And a lot of people don't want to feel. So I have seen CFT do amazing things for people, really open doors and kind of invite them to explore some of those things from their past. That is uncomfortable, can be inconvenient. But when they face it and they process it. We close that loop. They get off the table, and they're like, I've never felt so light in my life. We laugh, we cry. Sometimes it comes out as just conversation. So it's been amazing. CFT is not just for, you know, loosening up the tongue tie and getting it ready for release. You can come and we can do an hour session, and you can have immense healing in things that you didn't even know existed. You know, I've had people say, I didn't even know that was a problem. I didn't know that that was sitting inside of me. And our bodies are just giant emotional dumpsters. We just sit it, store it, push it down into our hips, and, you know, CFT can really help open those doors, really loosen things up. So, yeah, that's. That's my draw. I definitely see the lifespan. I see kiddos, I see babies, and I see a lot of adults, and that's. That's where I'm hoping to kind of bring. CFT is like, hey, look what else it can do. You know, make it part of wellness retreats, make it part of, you know, the inner healing, breath work, things like that, kind of working together with other providers to really just give people the opportunity to. To heal.

I love that, and I love everything. You said we could dive into so many different avenues. It's definitely, you know, an area where I've done the similar kind of work myself. I don't think it's something we talk about a ton on this podcast because, you know, prior to bringing in some of the CFT practitioners, and maybe there's a couple colleagues here and there that have come on and we've talked about some of these, you know, more alternative ways of addressing things in our life as some like to refer to it. But, yeah, it's. It's. It's so fascinating to me because I've had colleagues who are not necessarily, like, understanding what happened, but they've been through some type of CFT or similar, you know, bodywork, and they. Yeah, they're like, well, I have this, like, emotional release. Like, I just, you know, I just lost it. I just cried. Like, my whole body just kind of relaxed, and I'm like, oh, that's. You know, and so I love that you kind of. You brought that up, because I think that is not discussed as much.

Right. Yeah. And I, again, I think that's just, you know, the nature of the therapy has been, you know, oh, it pops up a lot with oral ties or, you know, it's just, that's what people see, that's how it gets them in. But there's so many other things that, you know, this, this therapy can do. And I think it maybe that's just how I've experienced it. What I saw during the classes, what I've seen as I've been working on people and you know, being in that world, you know, this is what I bring to the table. And it's amazing. It really is amazing.

I love it. And I definitely want to talk about things more than the oral ties, but since you brought it up, let's go there first and then we'll segue. So do you then you said you get a lot of cases, a lot of people, children, adults who come in for that? Maybe. Is it the pre op, post op work surrounding tethered oral tissues releases or just therapy in general? What does that look like in your practice?

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I took the class and kind of those first wave of clients that came through were all the tongue ties. You know, they were like, oh, finally there's a provider in Maine. You know, there was nobody in Maine. I took the class, I brought it up here and I knew that was what I was going to do. I was going to make this accessible to as many people as possible. So that first wave of people were the tongue tied kids. And you know, I hate saying tongue tied kids because we don't need to label people. You know, that's a huge thing. Once you say, oh, you're a tongue tied kid, the mind's going to make all these other things happen. Well, if you're about talking tongue tied, you must have X, Y and Z. And the next thing you know you're manifesting these things that may or may not even exist. You know, so these kids, these kiddos came in and I like to see them three days have their release on day four, and then I follow up with them for three days afterwards, kind of go over stretching and make sure that we're reorganizing everything in that fascial matrix expansions are a big one. That kind of have hit hard. I had quite a few people that I'm working with now either didn't have great expansions or having issues with expansions because they didn't understand the importance of body work and cranial sacral fascial work during, before, after the whole gambit. And now we're dealing with this system that's stuck, you know, or things were moving. You were in a postural position and now all of A sudden you're shoving this expansion and you're locked, you know, and we're having tinnitus issues, we're having nervous system ticks, we're having sleep issues. So working with those expansions, working with dentists, I've been fortunate enough to reach out, get in touch with myofunctional therapists in the area, kind of get my name into these dental offices and say, hey, you should, you know, at least let me come in and talk to you and let you know what I do and show you the importance of, you know, cranial sacral fascia work in collaboration with everything you're doing. You know, these airway dentists are great. I'm not knocking them, but there's so much more we can bring to the table and help people have a better expansion. Everything's bio individual. You know, people ask all the time, what should I do? And, you know, I'm like, well, the ELF is pretty good. It's. It's a cranial, you know, cranial friendly device. The bio block. Sure, that's good. Yep. But then I have people that get those, and they have, you know, all these symptoms and all these issues, and you just can't nail it down. You know, it's. Everything is so individualized. But if we give people enough support, then, you know, at least we're trying. So I. I get these kiddos in and we're working with them, and I'm seeing them before, and we're loosening up the fascia because your bones, you know, are wrapped in fascia. Your brain is wrapped in fascia. It's one continuous piece of tissue that's not interrupted. It's like a second set of skin under your skin that then has three layers, you know, so you go and put something in your mouth, or you're going to cut something underneath your tongue. You're disrupting that one big piece of tissue. So you need to make sure that things are loose, things are moving, and that you're, you know, working with the body, getting some consent. You know, talk to your body, let them know what's coming, Let it talk to it, support it, know that it knows what's best. Right. Your body doesn't make any mistakes. So getting in there and bringing those ties forward, working the fascia, loosening up those cranial bones, it just sets people up for success. You know, it's teeth connected to nerves. You know, there's a great picture. I wish I had it. But you can see that your teeth have nerves that run all the way up and right into your brain. So you start moving teeth, you start moving bones. Invisalign. You know, braces. People just think, like, that's something you do right? You're a teenager in high school, you get braces. I don't think we should take it so lightly. You know, you should definitely think about it, talk to people, get advice, do your research, and remember that you're in control. You know, I get so many people that come to me and they say, well, I didn't know. You know, my baby was released in the hospital. Why. Why are we cutting people so soon without any type of support? You know, nothing has to be done emergently. I always say, if your baby's happy and healthy, start there. If they're not eating, they have bad latch. You should be working with an IVCLC or good lactation consultant. Let them kind of see what's going on. Because there's a lot of things that can mimic tongue ties, and there's a lot of things we can do to maybe get a better latch or help them feed better. That kind of can push that tie down a little bit so that you can then come and get the support. You can get the fascia work. You can work with an IBCLC or lactation to do some oral motor skills, really getting things ready. Because what happens is these parents come in and they're like, oh, my baby got cut. And I think they're tied again. You know, I don't diagnose ties. I did take some myofunctional therapy training because I was seeing so much of it. I wanted to know. I wanted the support, wanted the language. So I look and I'm like, yeah, your baby's definitely tied. And some of these ties are, you know, high grades, lots of compensation. Floor mouth is coming way up, and you're like, well, I'm sorry to tell you, but it was rushed. You didn't have the proper support. It's reattached, you know, and they're not telling parents that, hey, this is just a quick fix. We're going to cut the anterior tie, the tie that's up in the front so that your baby can latch, your baby can eat. But you need to come back. There's a tie behind it, you know, So I tell people all the time, get your research. Nothing has to be done emergently. And if it does, it still needs to be done emergently. Right? Like, I worked in the critical care environment for over a decade as a nurse, and even then, there was still time to think, to talk you know, in some of these life threatening situations. So things like tongue ties, expansions, braces, you don't have to rush into it. You have time to get some myofunctional therapy to build up, you know, all those muscles and that range of motion. Let's get the tongue up, let's open up, you know, get rid of those compensations. Let's see, you know, is it as bad as it looks? I learned that in the myofunctional course and it was game changer getting that tongue up. Breathing. We underestimate the power of breathing. Nobody breathes right. So there's so many other things we can do before we jump to invasive surgery. You're, you're cutting tissue, you're moving bone. You know, do not think braces are just straightening your teeth. You're moving bone. You're taking things and nerves and ripping them and moving them. You need to be supporting your head, you need to be supporting your nervous system. And CFT can do that, you know, cft, chiropractic work. And I know there's a lot, and I get that. And I tell parents it can be overwhelming. I'm just here to give you what I know, what I feel, take what resonates, throw the rest away. You know, we have to do what we have to do. You do what's what you know best. You take the truth, you know, at the time and you make decisions. I made a lot of decisions with my first son that I didn't make with my second son, you know, and I'm working through that. I'm dealing with that. But you learn, we grow, we learn, we evolve. So I definitely think people just need to take a, take a minute, breathe. You know, there's all these hot button topics that we have now. Tongue ties, myofunctional breath work. You know, you have all these mold or all these. Diagnosis of the midline dysfunction. Mthf, mthfr, you know, and it's like so easy to go. I think I have all this stuff and then you just become those things. Nothing has to be done quickly. So when I see kids, that's the first thing I say. Hi. How are they doing? Are they happy? Are they healthy? Let's start there. Oh, yeah, no. He sees a happy kid, just, you know, he's got this, this and this. I'm like, well, he's happy and healthy, so let's start there. And usually those first sessions are just meeting and interacting, getting some consent, working a little bit of nervous system in there. And then once we Kind of, you know, have that repertoire, we have that relationship. Then we can start getting in the mouth and seeing, like, is there really a tie? How does it look? Does it something that has to happen right now, you know, and I get it. If you release a baby soon, that tongue will hopefully come up, be the natural expander and you, you know, you get away from all those things that come down the line. For me, my second son, definitely tied. That's what got me into cft, helping him kind of work through those strains. But he was eating, he was fortunate enough to have a decent latch, he was happy. So we held off. And I know that down the line expansions will have to happen now. There could be some braces that are needed, but for me that's more important than, you know, going into his mouth, making some cuts, moving bone without any type of, you know, support and help.

So, yeah, no, I love this perspective and I, you know, it's, I think for some parents especially who just feel like, oh my gosh, like we have to do it now, you know, what do we do? What's first, what's second? And then you give them the information. Like you said, a lot of parents are overwhelmed because it feel like a lot. But I, you know, we often say too, the importance of other types of intervention before a surgical procedure, no matter how minor that surgical procedure may appear to be or not. You know, we don't go into other surgeries in life without prepping our bodies first and without making sure that we're ready for what we need to do after that procedure concludes. But for some reason in this space, right. We just see all these little snips and clips and all that going on.

Yeah.

And it, you know, it drives me crazy as a speech pathologist and someone who teaches a pediatric feeding course and teaches a MYO course and has had two tied kids. And I was tied and released as an adult and I went through, you know, expansion and as a teenager and then, you know, again in my third, mid-30s. And you know, one of the things you mentioned earlier with like the body locking up, I noticed that halfway through my treatment and I was wearing DNA vivos appliances, like removable, you know, and my dentist office thankfully had individuals in the office providing what we needed for our bodies too. So we were getting those adjustments when we would go for appliance adjustments. And I think that's why I was so clearly able to see the impact of having that work over a two year span as we like use this appliance, but slower. For me and you know, halfway through though, I could no longer crank that appliance without first seeing the individual who was working on me because my, my Maxwell was so locked up and my Maxwell still is locked up. And that's a whole different conversation for another day.

Sure, sure.

It's. It, you know, it's. It really opened my eyes and I kind of went like, huh, okay. Being the patient, being the mother of patients. You know, my kids have been through expansion. Like I said, they've had tots releases. Two very different journeys. My first one is the whole reason why I got into this, you know.

Yeah, yeah, it always is.

Yeah. You know, it's. But it's also just so fascinating to see the difference between them. And I also think, like you said, it's so individual because even though I did one thing with one and I did it maybe earlier with the other one.

Sure.

I still think there's multiple phases too, based on what the child needs at this point in their life, what their body is ready for.

Exactly.

Think is appropriate for our situation right now. You know, I have also with them just been like, let's focus on one thing at a time. Because while I did have a salt tested end of last year and I have a whole protocol sitting here waiting for us, you know, I also was like, I just don't have the bandwidth myself even being in this space. Like, I need to finish their expansion first and I need to, you know, now that that's done and we're focusing on trying to get them to wear a myo brace at night, which I still don't know how I feel about.

Yeah, yeah.

With their lips slightly parted and you know, whatever. One other conversation again. But, you know, it's like all these little pieces to the puzzle that come into play that I think everyone is constantly like, well, what's the protocol? What's step one? What's step two? What's step three?

And we're like, yes.

No protocol other than make sure. And that's why I love this conversation. Make sure you're in. What I say to parents at least too, is make sure that you and your child's nervous systems are ready for whatever you choose the next step to be. Because we have so many families living in fight or flight. These kids are living in fight or flight. And you know, in my, and this is just my opinion, but anyone living in fight or flight is not benefiting from a lot of the work that I might be doing as a feeding therapist or my therapist. And that's where, you know, I have really come to reach out to individuals like yourself, where I'm like, please go see John, or please go see, you know, who is going to help your body just release all those things and, you know, move into that rest and digest, as we like to call it, so that we have the tools and the ability to understand where we need to be functioning to then receive the next steps of therapy. And then the one other thing I'll say, too, before I turn it back over to you is, is, you know, the whole conversation of oral ties. Right. I. This is the Untethered podcast. I've been really, you know, I've been through my own journey as a mom, a therapist, you know, the practitioner. Right. The patient. And it's changed my perspective every single step of the way because over time, I've just learned how to better, you know, address this conversation and even the therapy itself with patients. And while, yes, maybe there are patients who are tied that absolutely need releases, there are also patients who appear tied that absolutely never do end up needing a release. And sometimes, like you said, it could be floor of the mouth tension or other compensation or surrounding tension that mimics a tie appears as a tie. And so, again, I love being able to speak with other practitioners who get it. That whole, you know, we're connected from the tip of our tongue to the tip of our toes. And, you know, once we start to really wrap our head around that, I think it's just. It really lends to a whole different conversation. And I think the more parents hear that and even other providers, maybe the more we can stop rushing into things, and maybe the more we start to go like, okay, pump the brakes. Hold on. Who do we need to see to figure out if this is an actual tie or is it maybe like a pseudo tie? Right.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, and like you said, we're so quick to just, you know, the baby's born. You deliver a baby, and they're in there with scissors, cutting. You know, it's like you've got to give the body a minute to adjust, to come out, to loosen up, to see, like you said. Is that even a tie? That floor, mouth. The other thing is, even as adults, we're so quick to, you know, and it's cosmetic. Let's get those braces. And I see people, oh, my beautiful smile. And they have horrible tongue thrust. There's no space for the tongue. You now probably need an expansion. Well, I can't. I, you know, I just. All this money for this beautiful smile. Well, then that's on that's your decision, and I tell you that's fine. Choose that. That's okay. I'm telling you that some of the issues you're having, some of the TMJ pain, some of the nervous system issues, the brain fog, could be your mouth breathing, could be your snoring. I could probably maybe get you off a cpap. You know, there's some things that can happen, but we're so quick to go, well, he's a teenager. We got to get those braces on. The dentist said, the so and so said, what did you feel? I tell people, what does your gut say? Go talk to the dentist, hear what he has to say, and then go home and sit with it for a minute. Does it feel right? Does it feel like that's what you want to do? Because to me, a lot of it comes. A lot of that stuff is cosmetic.

Oh, yeah.

You know, expansion. That's, you know. Yeah, I'm sorry, what's that?

A lot of orthodontists learn, you know, about.

Yeah, exactly.

Straight, beautiful smiles. That's what they go for. And listen, I'm not saying every orthodontist is in this camp.

No, not at all.

Traditionally and still, what is taught, per my orthodontic colleagues in a lot of programs these days is really more focused on straight, beautiful smile.

Right. Let's fix it. Let's get everything. Yeah, let's make the space. And. And then you have these people that have these great smiles, and I'm like, good for you. But your tongue is just way too big for your mouth. Or the opposite. They get snipped, and they needed to be expanded. So now you've just complicated things because now you have more mouth, you have more tongue in a smaller, smaller space. So again, people coming back to like, what is that? Order of operations. And I said, you know, personally, here's what I would do, right? If your baby's feeding, not having good latch or they're not feeding, maybe they need a quick, quick release. Let's get them eating. Let's let them feed. Work with some body, people. Go get a complete release. You know, if your baby's latching, okay, they're happy, healthy, and gaining weight. You could probably wait, get some body work and then go get maybe a more complete release. You know, for me, it'll be my. My kiddos, it'll be little, you know, but we're gonna work with them and we're gonna find a good airway dentist, which we have a few, and we're going to see. Do they need to be expanded first. How would tongue space look like? How's their airway? You know, because for me, I think you should expand, release, and then straighten and close any gaps. And again, that's just my personal opinion. My order of operations flows that way. You know, let's open the mouth. Myofunctional therapy throughout, cranial sacral work throughout. And let's get everything moving, make the space, release the tongue. And you know, yeah, there are going to be some issues along the way because you might have the higher palate, you're going to have some mouth breathing in there. But myofunctional therapy can help with a lot of that. And I've seen that my son was bottle fed for five months because my wife went back to work. So she was pumping and I was feeding him a bottle. I could, I swore that he was tongue tied. I really did. I take the myofunctional course, I'm giving him the exercises and things are happening and I'm like, maybe you're not tied. You know, we're working on those compensations. I'm seeing the floor of the mouth go down. He's, he's lip sealed, that tongue is up, mouth breathing is gone. I'm like, well, maybe there isn't something there, you know, See, and if we had rushed to have him cut, we're putting him through some invasive traumatic experience that maybe now he doesn't even need. So it's so like you said, people are just so quick to say, well, this is what the person said, you know, and they're, they're nervous or that you're the expert. So whatever you say, and I tell people, no, no, no, listen to yourself, because your body is innately intelligent and it will tell you if something feels right or wrong. And you just need to listen to that. And helping people open up into their intuition to feel their body. To hear that, to hear that is hard. It's not easy. It's something that takes practice. But once you hear, once we elevate that, you know, the volume of your body, I like to say, which is something that I like to do with cft. You know, we open up that body and all I'm doing is I'm turning up the volume a little bit. I'm not doing anything. I'm letting you hear what your body wants. And then we let it go, we work with it, we release it. And people tell me all the time, like, oh, I just feel like I need to move or I feel like I need to shake. So that's your body. It's talking to you. Listen to it, you know? And when you get a decision, if somebody's giving you information, you get that gut feeling, hey, this doesn't feel right. People say it just didn't feel right. Listen to that. Go with it, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, trust it. Trust your gut. And that's what I tell people that's in there. That's. That's something talking to you. And there's a lot, a lot of truth there. You know, your body just wants balance at the end of the day, partners, kiddos, best friends, they're gone. The only thing you have is your body. Your body will be with you from the day you're born till the day you die. It's the only thing that's guaranteed to be with you your whole life. So listen to it, support it. Let your body know that I trust you. I trust I'm here with you. And your body won't lead you wrong. You know, it doesn't make mistakes. It will always seek balance. And you can throw whatever you want at it through pharmaceuticals, natural healing, body work, myofunctional tie release. Your body will find balance no matter what. So just trust it, go with it, lean into it, surrender to it, and know that it's going to. You know, I can't guarantee it's gonna. What it's gonna look like on the other side, but your body will find balance and things will work out. You know, change is not easy. It's inconvenient. Sometimes it can be uncomfortable. But it's necessary for healing, you know, and healing is a very active process. You're the only one that can heal. So I get moms in here that, you know, they're advocates for their kids. They want the best. Who doesn't? But you can't force your kid into healing, you know, And I've had to tell some. Some moms that, hey, they might just not be ready, you know, and, yeah, it would be great if we could get on top of things now while they're four or five years old, but this might not be their time, you know, it might be when they're older. Could be when, you know, they're in their teenage years. You can't force it, you know, so you just got to kind of trust your gut and know that everything's going to work out, know, and you're not broken. So many people coming and saying, oh, you know, my. My tie and I had a bad release or, you know, oh, all this stuff that's happened to me. And I tell people, stop talking about yourself that way. You're not broken, you're just unbalanced right now. You're going through some things. You're transitioning, right? Like, you're evolving. Your body's going through something so that it can make the adaptations and come out on the other side stronger. And the minute you start talking about yourself, your body hears that and your body goes, well, I guess if you believe must be true. And then you just see this cascade of events just unfold, and you're like, ah, we had just. It's a mindset, right? So it's mindset navigation. Now I'm going to work myself out of a job, but I give the tools to people to just. You can heal yourself. Honestly, you really can. Anything that's going on in your body, no matter what it is, is just your body going through an adaptation. It's responding to a perceived or actual, you know, psychological conflict. And it's adapting, it's going through some biological things to kind of respond to whatever was perceived, you know, so if I could tell people anything, it would be just slow down, listen to your body, trust it, sit with it. You know, so many people don't want to feel. We just want the quick fix. We want the pill, we want the thing. We want the tool, the therapy. We want somebody else to do it for us. And I tell people it's not going to work that way. You know, you're going to have to put in some work yourself.

It's. I mean, that's so true, right? I feel like we just live in a. So many of us live in a society where it's like, fix my child. Here you go.

Like, right, yeah.

Love your perspective on, your child's not broken. You're not broken. Right? It's exactly. You know, I had a conversation with a mom recently, another speech pathologist in the pediatric feeding space. And, you know, she had that same message. There is nothing wrong with your child. There is nothing. She, you know, went through this with her own child, and she said, I had to come to that realization, there's nothing wrong with my child. And, you know, I like to tell parents that too, because we're all human. We're all here, right? Living 3D space at the moment. And if we allow ourselves to be who we are, and we don't make that wrong, right? We then I think also can turn inward and kind of listen to ourselves, trust our gut more and start to go, okay, what do I need for myself? Because I think we are so far away from listening to ourselves, to trusting ourselves. And it's. You know, it's sad to a degree because we put so. And not me, but I know a lot of our society, we put so much trust into people who have certain letters after their names. And it's like, just because someone has a training does not mean they know you better than you know yourself. And unfortunately, again, we live in a society where oftentimes symptoms are treated Instead of figuring out, okay, if there is something going on and you truly feel like there's something going on and you want to address it, okay, fantastic. But again, trusting that you can. That you can overcome.

Yeah.

Is going on. Trusting that your body has the tools or that there are some outside resources and things, whether it's CFT or feeding, therapy or maybe some. Something that'll supplement your body in a healthy way. You know, instead of trusting that these things are maybe that road to help you get to where you're going. I think we just. We encounter so much of the. These highly anxious individuals who come in and they're like, here's my child or, here's my problem. Fix my child or fix me. What do we do to fix this? And we're like, well, tell me what's going on, Because I want. It's like the first thing I ask every patient is, why are. Why are you here? What is your concern? What are you. Tell me about your story. Tell me about you. Give me all of you. I want all the information. Because I. Yeah, I don't know how to help you until you lay it. Lay it down for me. And I think that early on, as a therapist, I never realized because I wasn't really in this space of, like, connecting even with myself this way. But as a young therapist, everyone would be like, wow, like, how do you just kind of, like, figure out what to do? Like, how do you just connect so well with your patients? And I'm like, well, there's a human in front of me. So, like, you know, I know we got to build rapport, but, like, it goes deeper than that. We have to connect on an energetic level where, you know, I'm understanding their responses because if I say something or I do something and their response doesn't match the energy of what I'm doing, I need to change what I'm doing, or I need to back up and figure out, like, where I'm going next. And I've always said it's such a dance between, like, art and science to not just deliver what you're delivering. But to actually connect with that human sitting in front of you. And at the end of the day, remember that they're here because they want you to help them, but we have to teach them how to help themselves in a sense. You know, it's so cool. I had a baby here last week. And, you know, I was just. It's one of, like, the therapists who works with me or kid. We were just recording some videos and everything because therapists in my space get so caught up on, well, what exercise do I do and how many repetitions and what do I do for this? And I'm like, oh, gosh. Like, I mean, I know I have a course and I know that we've had thousands of people go through it, but, like, how do I even teach you guys this? Because, like, it's just so innate that, you know, I'm following. And so what we decided to do was actually have, like, myself and some of our alumni from the course record actual assessment and treatment sessions. Because I know everyone's going to think that it looks like. Follow the checklist we gave you, follow step one, step two, step three. And we always tell them that's not how it works. It's very fluid. And I'm not sitting there checking off boxes. Now, obviously, I'm more experienced, so in the beginning, I may have been referencing my, you know, information more as I became more comfortable as a therapist in this space. However, when you're working with a patient, you can't be checking off things and writing everything down or you're not going to connect. You're not going to know where to even go next. Put a video recorder on in the corner if you need to. If you feel like you need to go back and watch and, you know, get all the things. But exactly what happened, you know, which we always say happens, is baby didn't want me in his mouth at one point, and then baby wanted me in his mouth. And then baby put his own fingers in his mouth and started doing what, at five months old started putting his finger on his gums and just chomp, chomp, chomping on his own finger. Yes, yes, that input, right? And all of a sudden I was like, oh, let's go to the other side. And he kind of like moved my finger away, Put his own finger in and started to move his jaw. And I was like, would you look at that? You know, And. And someone who's so caught up on delivering a service that. Where they're like, no, I have to get in there. I gotta feel that And I gotta do the repetitions and I gotta. No, no, you don't. You know, and some of, some of what I teach wasn't in this evaluation because baby was done. We had been together for an hour and a half. Baby was done. It was time for him to go nap.

Yeah.

You know, I got to observe him. And I think that we oftentimes also just make things so much more complex. Because we think it should be more complex or because we think that there should be research articles that tell us like, here's the framework and here's step one, step three. And I'm like, no, just connect with the human sitting in front of you and you'll have all the information that you need. If you have the training to help you understand what you're looking at and what you're essentially, you know, trying to accomplish. Whether that's correct, oral rest, posture, tongue up, lips closed. Right. You know. Right, right nose, whether it's that suck, swallow, breathe pattern, whatever, whatever we may be working on. And I just, I think again, it's just, it seems so far fetched because it's just not how things are typically taught in grad programs and.

Sure, sure.

But yeah, yeah. So anyways, that's my whole spiel on that.

Yeah, no, I think, I mean, it's schools, right? I mean they're, they're motivated by the dollar. Right. So they have to teach things because they're funded. And that's the problem. I went to a great biological dentist and he said, the only way we're going to fix dentistry is if we get into the schools. And he said there's not enough money to get into the schools because it's the only way we're going to see change. And I was like, yeah, there's a lot to that, you know, so fixing it from the top down type of thing. Like all these people that are in the world and they're treating and they're diagnosing and they're seeing they're being taught all the same thing. And then every, you know, you've got those people that decide this doesn't feel right and they break away. And those are the people that have, you know, six month waiting list. They're not accepting new clients. Clients or people are flying in to see them because they bring something very unique. You know, I prioritize connection over communication. I wait for the invitation. You know, if I can't connect with you, nothing I do is going to matter. If we're at, if we're already kind of like we're not mixing. We're not meshing. Let's. Let's wait. Let's figure something out. You know, I book in our sessions because sometimes it takes me an hour with some of the little kiddos to get that connection. And I tell parents that today, I don't know what this is going to look like. I've been on the floor playing with kids for 40 minutes before I can even touch them, you know, so connection is huge. Especially when, like you said, you want to know the human in front of you. They're not just an issue, you know, And I have an intake form and you can put your stuff on there. But honestly, that's just for you kind of look and see. Okay? And it paints a picture of where your nervous system might be. Where are some issues that we might need to pay attention to. But I don't need it. You know, I have a lot of people that just come in. I know nothing about them and it's just me holding space for them, putting hands on and feeling like, yeah, this feels like what we should do. And nine times out of 10, how did you know to touch that? How did you know the left rich or how did you know I had jaw pain? And it's like I didn't. I just listened, you know, I put hands on, I let my intuition take over and I get out of my head. Nothing is weird. I rubbed hips for 40 minutes and you know, what am I doing here? Woman gets out. I've never been able to stand or my knee pain is gone. So it's just letting it all out. Forgetting what we know forget, forgetting what we think we know and just feeling, letting it come in and go. This feels right. This feels like what we should do, you know, no checklist like you said. And working sometimes with mom, mom and dad, you know, I have kiddos that I can't. I still haven't been able to get hands on. But I'm working mom and dad and we're seeing some changes in the kiddo, you know, especially, what is it, six months? Kids aren't separate from their mom, so everything mom is kiddo is, you know, if mom is high strung and stressed kiddos tight stressed, high strung. So helping mom kind of release and unwind helps baby release and unwind. Everyone's in the fight or flight nervous system is huge to me. It's my biggest thing. Hey, let's really focus on getting you out of that fight or flight. And a lot of people will don't know what it feels like to really be Parasympathetic. My body's never felt so heavy. I feel like I'm know floating in space. What did you do to my brain? And I say I brought you back to your body. I brought you back to the present. You were, you weren't thinking about all the things you have to do, the getting the kids to school, worried about homework for one hour. I brought you back to your body and you were present in the moment and you felt the weight of like what your body feels like. You know, Fight or flight is all about escaping death. Running from a bear, right? Saving your life. And it should only be for a couple minutes, right? It's supposed to be this superhuman power that gets us out of danger. And then you're supposed to, like an animal, shake it off, right? You, you're filled with all these hormones that just saved your life, and you're supposed to get rid of it somehow. Dance, move, scream, howl, sing. There's things we need to do to get moving. That energy that just flowed through our body and turned us into these superhumans. Problem is, people live in that. You know, I have no pain until I get home from work. It's because you're in Fight or Flight all day. And then you get home and you finally relax and all that power is gone. All that numbing agent is out of your body and you're feeling the back pain, you're feeling the jaw pain, you're feeling the weight. You know, it's. It's getting people out of that and saying you don't have to live there. You know, I did. I was in the military. I did ems. I became a critical care nurse. My life, I worked nights. I thrived in fight or flight. I loved chaos. When I stepped away from nursing, I found myself creating problems. I would create arguments with my wife. I made issues bigger than they had to be. I looked for the thing that was wrong because I needed it. It was uncomfortable for me to not be in fight or Flight. And it took a while. It took a good year of telling myself, like, you don't need that. It's okay. This feeling that you have is how you should feel. You don't need to be high strung and super stressed. So it's amazing how pulling people out of Fight or flight can, like, open them up. You know, even just one session of cft, holding that space, letting them kind of become present in their body. And then you find out that like, they're making these huge changes in their life that they never would have done, you know, changing their business. Plans or, you know, they're. They're finally dating again, you know, they're moving out of that. Like, everything is scary and dangerous and realizing, like, no, I'm safe, you know, it's okay. I don't have to be scared. I don't have to create chaos. I can thrive in peace. You know, there's underestimated the amount of times I tell people, just get outside. You know when you just feel like you can't take it anymore. Go outside, sit in the sun, breathe in fresh air, go hug a tree, get your feet in some dirt, some. Put some grass underneath you. You know, there's a lot of science behind grounding, but also just get out there, realize that you're part of something way bigger than you. And chances are whatever you're going through is so minuscule that even in the moment, no matter how big it is, minutes, hours, couple years from now, you're gonna look back and go, wow, such a small part of my life. You know, it's unreal.

I mean, it's powerful, right? You think about just. Just breaking the cycle or breaking whatever pattern you're currently in, like, get up, go outside. Obviously, there's a ton of health benefits, as you mentioned, right?

Yeah, that's what I mean. There's tons of science behind that, but just getting away, just take a minute and being okay saying, you know, I need a minute. And it's. It's the mom guilt, it's the dad guilt, it's the masculine guilt of I need to be a man. It's okay to turn around and say, I'm overstimulated and I just need a minute, you know, and I'm not talking basic human needs like taking a shower, because sometimes people feel like that's self care. Nope, that is something you should do, right? Self care. Get out. Go get a massage. Go get some cft. And it's okay. You're not a bad parent. You're not a bad human. To say, I need, I need to take space. I just need. I just need a minute, you know, And I see it with my boys. They'll tell me, hey, dad, I'm not ready to talk about that right now. I just need a minute. And I'm like, I'm doing it right. Then, you know, you know, the fact that they, they argue with me is a good thing too, because it means they're safe. They feel comfortable sticking up and saying, hey, you're wrong. I don't agree. Agree with you, you know, and I'm not gonna lie. And Say I don't get triggered sometimes, but yeah, take a minute, go. Yeah, you know what? You're right. I'm being kind of. I'm being a turd. And you're right. I should probably take a minute, go, clear my mind, step away for a little bit. And it's amazing the shifts you see, just boom, separate, break it, come back, you know, but again, we want this, this, this quick, quick, quick, quick. If there's a problem, I gotta fix it. It's okay to sit in that and be like, this is uncomfortable. You know, nobody wants to feel. I just want people to feel and say, it's okay, it's okay to cry, it's okay to laugh. You know, it's just breaks my heart that people don't want to feel that, you know, that we're all just. We want to distract and disassociate. We. We don't want to, you know, we'll just do something else, right? Like, this is uncomfortable.

Well, I feel like so many people are habitually stuck in that cycle and don't even recognize, right, that they are. They don't know. I mean, like, we just, we get emails, right? In my business, my online business, I have a private practice too, but more so in my online business where it's like, oh my gosh, like, we need this from you right now. And I'm like, what? Yeah, well, the individual who typically works on that is not back for a couple of days. So right on our list. Like, you know, but it's everybody. And honestly, I used to be that way. I used to be the, like, right now, get it done. I won't sleep it because I'll get it done. If someone else can't get it done, like, this team member's out, so I'm gonna do this. And it's like, if I'm not launching a course, which I am right now, but like, if I'm not, like in this live launch where we have, we kind of go in knowing, like, okay, we've got everything set, but we know things always happen and yeah, yeah, of course. Okay. But, you know, we'll step up and we'll fit. We'll do whatever we need to do during that period. Like when I'm not in that five day period three times per year, if someone comes at me and they're like, I need this from you. I want this. I want you to speak here. I want you to. I'm like, no, no.

Yeah.

We're so stunned when you say no or I'll say, you Know what? I'm not sure right now. Ask me in three months or come back and check with me later if you have that time. Like, I just. I can't commit to something a year from now because my values are X, Y and Z, and I haven't looked at my calendar for 2024 yet. So I don't know. Good.

Good for you. Good for you for being here right now, you know.

Great. I'm focused on what I need to focus on now. And I'm not going to say yes just because it sounds exciting because I know later I may come to regret that because, you know, I used to be that person who is like that. Yes. Person over, you know. Oh, I can be all the things for everyone, except for I was never being anything for myself, which also then takes away from my own family, which is the reason why I create everything that I create. Right. Yeah. For myself. So I can do all the things I want with my.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's. It's such a shift in the world. And, you know, as a business owner, at one point I actually was working with a shaman, and I. One of the reasons I actually hired her, which I didn't realize at the time that, like, when we started to, like, work together for a couple of months, but basically it was just learning. She was like, you just need to trust your intuition. She's like, when you do, everything works out exactly the way it needs to. And she's like. When she's like, everything that's happening right now is because your intuition is telling you one thing and you're just fighting it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh. I mean, she was completely right. She was completely right. I was like, oh, okay. Well, fantastic. And so that was a huge life lesson for me. And then I had, like, last. I think it was December or so. I. I hired somebody who does hypnosis, like, self hypnosis, teaches people how to, you know, she does some coaching and stuff. And I had hired her just, you know, to talk about certain things and kind of work through certain things going on that I wanted a different kind of shift my perspective on. And again, it just. This huge, huge realization came out of working with her that, you know, even though I've done all this work on myself, like, my kryptonite is overwhelmed. And the second that my body starts to, like. And I. Saying the word, I get this feeling in my shoulders because it's that, like, visceral reaction.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, no, don't go. We know what that. You're right.

Yeah. It remembers. It Knows what that feels like.

Yeah, so. But it's like these things that I've dove into where I. I have spent the time figuring out what that feels like. Like, you've said, just like, let yourself feel. And when you start. When I start to get that feeling, or someone asks me like, hey, will you speak at this conference? Or, hey, will you do this? And I get that little. That teeny little feeling, start to, like, creep up. I'm like, I can't commit to that right now, but thank you for considering me, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and then there's other times where someone asks and I'm like, oh, that sounds really cool. And I feel like I could do that. Like, that just feels like it flows, there's ease around, you know, And I'm like, yeah, sure, send me the details, you know? And so again, it's really just trusting yourself. And I think, like you said, feeling and listening to your body, because it's giving you everything you need if you allow it to. I just. I love that. I think it's so beautiful.

Yeah, it's surrender. It's fear, right? So everyone wants the thing and they're afraid of what could happen. But like you said, if you just surrender trust, you're going to end up exactly where you need to be, when you need to be. You know, even going through all the issues, anything, you name it, it's mold, tongue tied, whatever you're supposed to be going through that there's a reason, maybe it's not for you, but maybe it's somebody else, you know, and, like, you can look at that however you want. But, yeah, sure, maybe you're going through something because you're going to bump into somebody and you're going to have a conversation and that's going to help them. Somewhere down the line, you know, we're so. We're all one. One. We're just one big place. We're all energy. We all came from the same thing. And people want to, you know, segregate. They want to become. I'm this, I'm that. If you just believe that everything happens the way it's supposed to, there is a divine will. You can't change the physical and just let it be, you know, I didn't know what was going to happen. I come on the podcast, I'm super nervous. It just. It's gone. I get on the phone with you your night, I just talking. It's gonna become whatever it is, you know, and maybe there's somebody who's gonna hear this and say, wow, the way he said that, I never thought of that. Sure. If it's one person, it's all that matters. You know, even with my work, if I just meet one person when I put some content out on social media, I write because that's something that came to me that I wanted to share. And I don't care if anyone likes it. I don't care if it offends you. Love that it's not intentional, it's everything comes from love. I don't do anything out of hate. I don't do anything out of spite. If I put love behind everything, I can't hurt anybody. And I, I, you know, I get the one person, hey, thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it. And it opens up that communication. I've had amazing, amazing phone calls with people just through something I put up on Instagram that I was like, I didn't even realize that was just something I put out there. I didn't realize that was going to hit so hard, you know? So, yeah, listen to your intuition. Give it up and you'll be amazed at what can happen. People always ask, well, I don't understand the premise of manifesting. People say, I can manifest the reality I want. And I said, yeah, you can believe it and it will happen. It might not look exactly how you want, you know, oh, I want to be, well, healthy. Yeah. Maybe you don't have tons of money, but do you see how much love you have in your household? Do you see the friends? Did you see that conversation you had with somebody and how that changed their life? That's wealth, right? Like, you will get what you need if you just open yourself up to it and put love behind everything. If all your intentions come from love, you're not going to hurt anybody. You just can't. If your intention is truly love and passion and caring, no matter what you do, you cannot hurt somebody. You can't.

Yeah, well. And I think part of your message, too, is that we are all here for a larger purpose. And, you know, I think so many people spend so long either not realizing that or not. They just can't figure out what their purpose is. And I think, again, it's because they're so blocked off. And I think I realize, like you said, maybe you're living something now or experience experiencing something because of what it's going to do for someone else. And then that just kind of my, My whole being was like, yes, yes. I mean, for me. Right. Being the patient, being the mom, being the practitioner.

Yeah.

School for this, you know, I went to school, right. Ologist, and I knew I wanted to have a business one day and that's all I knew. And coming out of it, if you had told me 15 years ago I'd be a feeding therapist and I'd have a podcast and I'd have like these two flagship courses and thousands of therapists, you know, going through them and I'd be like, I mean, that sounds cool, but like what? Like, like that. I don't, that's not for me, you know, here I am because again, my life just, I just allowed my life to basically course correct, if you will, and kind of just take me on the journey that needed to happen and I didn't fight it. And it's so interesting too because I think when you are open and things flow to you, things just present themselves. And when people, like when you said, like manifesting. Right. For me, I think there's so many people who teach the concept of manifesting, but they're also talking more about forced manifesting or trying to force something to be true that is not actually your truth. Right. And so, yeah, you know, I like how you touched on the, you know, the topic of manifesting too, because I think, well, yeah, we totally manifest, but that's based on who you're being today. And you know, one of the things that I always joke with, like, you know, because I work with medical professionals, right? SLPs, OTS, RDs. Yeah, yeah, whoever who go through my programs, but in both of my main courses, I have them all go through this be do have thing that I learned through Jim Fortin. He didn't create it, but I learned it through him way back in like 2019 or 2018 or so, where it really talks about like your identity and being today who you want to be, like embodying today who you want to be a year from now. Because if you're trying to step into a certain role, but you're at your place functioning like somebody else, it's not going to happen, right? So we can go spend thousands of dollars and take all the courses and go, you know, even see the patients, you're still going to feel the same way a year from now that you feel today. And so I really, I, I help everyone step into just that role of being who they actually hire to be and that 90 day goal on it. And you know, I'm one of the first people, this comes up a lot. I'm one of the first to basically say you're allowed to call yourself a myofunction. Functional therapist, or you're allowed to call yourself a pediatric feeding therapist, because so many people spend so much time saying, you can't call yourself that. Like, big names and industries will say things like that. Sure, sure, you know, and so it's. It's very fascinating to see that shift and to see when people actually verbalize it, write it down, start to believe it, it becomes a conscious being and identity. And then all of a sudden, people shift into actually controlling that desired role. And so it's like, then there's, you know, on the flip side, side, it's like some people do know what they want and they do know what they desire, and they absolutely can manifest it if they allow themselves to. And if. I think sometimes, if maybe there's someone who's that catalyst that basically says, hey, like, you can totally do this, and they're like, okay, you know, it's like sometimes they need somebody planted in their life who's going to maybe believe in them or help them, say, you know, call yourself that. That's fine. Don't mis. Misrepresent what you do. But like, yeah, yeah, you know, you got to start somewhere, right? So it's just. It's so fascinating and so interesting and, you know, people always say, well, what sets your courses apart? And I'm like, me, I don't know. We have this. We have. I believe in other people and other colleagues, and I want to elevate them, and I want them to. You know, I really feel like my. My purpose here was to elevate individuals in business and in these, in. In the myo space and in the feeding space. And I feel like we are, well, in motion and in these areas and these arenas because it just, like, you know, like you said, everything is energy and there's that energetic exchange. And so, you know, my goal is really get these kids off wait lists, get parents the help they need, get the patients they need. And so for me, I felt like, like you were alluding to. It's much bigger than us, right? It's. It's much bigger than me as an individual. I can't do that myself. I can totally go and help who I can help, but if I get out of my own way to realize that maybe I'm the car that needs to deliver this to other individuals and, like, then they can go out and help others, you know, like, for me, they're just. Some of the biggest, like, life realizations came through all these side trainings and coaches and mentors and people that I worked with and I really learned to just put my ego aside and get out of my own way. And it's opened up this beautiful journey, which, you know. Anyways, I feel like I should share that because I, you know, a lot of.

Yeah, no, I appreciate the show is.

Really just, you know, I think goes hand in hand with. With my experience. And I always love where these conversations go. You never know what we're going to talk. You know, I haven't. Yeah, we hop on. But like you said, it's like you got on. You're like, all right, let's see what happens.

Yeah, it's a conversation. People don't know how to talk. They're too busy doing this, or they need autocorrect or they need somebody else to. To give them a prompt. It's like, this is interaction, this is conversation. And if it goes silly, it goes silly. If it gets real serious, it gets real serious. But that's what had. That's where it went. It's natural, it's organic, you know, and it's. It's. Maybe it makes me think about some things. You know, you mentioned Catalyst, and my oldest son is the reason I'm here right now having this conversation with you. I've done crazy things. I've had tons of jobs and military and all this stuff. Becoming a dad was by far the hardest thing I've ever done. But in the same thing, opened, not even just a new chapter. I wouldn't even say it was another book. It was a whole nother genre. You know, just my life switched with him coming into my world, and that's when things started to happen. That's when I started setting boundaries, and I started looking at making myself better and. And healing my inner self so that I could be the better father, the better husband, the better man, you know? And then my second son comes along, and he's got some oral ties, and that led us down the cft. I go take the class, and I years as a nurse, critical care nurse, loved everything I did, loved talking with people. Wouldn't even take an ibuprofen. But I'm in a critical care environment pushing some of the craziest medications on people. I find cft, and I'm like, this is where I belong. This is what I should be doing. It just felt so natural to say, I don't need to know anything, but I get to talk with you. Maybe we just spend an hour in silence. But I felt so connected to it, so drawn to it, that there was no going back. There's no way I think I could ever go back to a western medicine type of job or even way of thinking. You know, I've been so far out of that for so long, and I just kind of worked there. But being a nurse wasn't who I. I was. It was just what I did. I had a passion for it, and that was it. When I walked away from it, it wasn't like I was leaving any part of me behind, because it wasn't who I was. You know, Who I am is not what I do. So Catalyst, you know, just. It happens in the weirdest ways. You know, you just never know what's going to come into your life and just kickstart your. Kick you right in the back and just. Whoa. And push you right into something that you never knew you were going to be. Did I ever think I was going to be running a business, doing cranial sacral work, you know, and traveling all over New England and going to people's homes and holding people in my arms while they sob or laughing hysterically or being in a room, just moving. We're just dancing and moving, and that's what we do, because that's what feels like we should be doing. No, I never would have thought of that. But thanks to my son, here I am. You know, he just made me a better person. He's opened up me to the energetic world, and I'm feeling all the shifts, and I'm feeling myself get lighter. He's. He's inviting me to. To explore parts of my. My past that I didn't even know maybe were a big issue. He's brought so much clarity into my life. And then my. My youngest son is just the complete opposite. He's super independent, you know, like, dad, see you later. I'm gonna go cook some eggs. You know, he's three years old, and I'm like, whoa. Like, just. They. They took my brain when my kids were. Were born and they gave half to Oliver and half to Arlo. And one got the empathetic, heavy emotions, super mature for his age, and the other one got that super carefree, you know, adrenaline junkie, you know? Yeah.

And it's.

It's like, oh, my God. But being a dad and finding myself has been the best thing. And CFT has just opened up so many more doors for me to finally start saying, like, hey. And like you said, people want. I think earlier you mentioned people want people with letters behind their names. And they think that's what makes them professional. That's what gives them the authority to talk on that topic. And I had a little bit of imposter syndrome when I first got started. But then I started to realize, like, I don't need to go to school to do what I do. I don't need to have letters after my name to hold space for another human and say, tell me your story and genuinely listen. You know, to really say, I'm here and I'm going to listen to every word and I'm going to let you, you speak and I don't need to throw my words in. I don't need to give you my input. It's your time and I'm here to listen and just say whatever you want. And you know, this is opening up so much for, you know, looking into retreats and allowing, you know, men to come and express themselves and letting it be whatever it is, you know, whatever that needs to look like for them. I'm here for it. You know, if we need to be in the woods, we'll be in the woods. And if you want to just hang around the dinner table and have some breakfast, let's do that too. But being able to connect with another human, hold space and allow them to work through things and just be there for them 100% in the present, moment to moment. You don't need to go to school for that. And you don't need somebody to tell you what you need to do. You just need to listen and you'll know inside, you'll know what needs to happen. And it's that again, going back to fear. You need to let go of the fear and just believe that wherever you end up, whatever you go through is where you're supposed to be. You know, the butterfly effect. You change one little thing and everything else. I've done it. Think back, I go back and what if I did this? Or what if that happened? Or what if I didn't do this? And it's so quick and you see, like, I wouldn't have the two sons I have now. I wouldn't be having this conversation with you. The guy at the coffee store you hold the door for. That is a huge thing. You don't know what happened in that little interaction later on down the line. You held the door for the man, the man holds the door for somebody else. And you can just paint this picture of like you've changed the world, you know, so just let everything happen, embrace it, feel it, don't fear it, and get away from the idea that things are weird, you know, that's the other thing. Oh, well, that seems weird. But it's not gonna hurt you. So why.

You know, let's all be a little weird.

It's fine, let's be weird. Get weird. Feel, cry, laugh, scream. Holl at the moon. Do what you gotta do, you know, embrace it. You only get to live this life once, and then it's over. So live this life. And you know what if this, this. Maybe this life isn't for you to, to, to. To make those big healing things, maybe the next time around, you know, and that's okay too. You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. You know, it's like we're all. Like you said, we're all one. You know, there's nobody better than anyone else. Some people have different lives. Some people made other choices. Some people are doing things that you're not. And that's okay, you know, But I'm happy. I don't need much.

I love it. I love it. Well, tell us, John, where everybody can find you online. Also share your practice information in case anybody wants to work with you.

Yeah, I appreciate that opportunity. I'm Mid Coast Fascial Therapy. I work out of my home office here in Jackson, Maine, but I'm also down at two chiropractic offices, one in Portland, one in Biddeford that I see clients every other week I do in homes. So a lot of people will have me come to them and I give them therapy right in their home. They can hang out in their pajamas. Usually it's, you know, they're a little bit more comfortable in a familiar space. And I travel all over New England as well. I've done events in Connecticut, New Hampshire, Massachusetts. If there's a need, I'm going to try and do my best to make sure that there's access to this because it can open source so much for people. And I don't think that this is something somebody should, you know, not be able to get to. So I put a lot of content out on Instagram that's at Midcoast Fascial Therapy. You can reach me through there. I have a contact on my website, midcoastfascialtherapy.com and I do my best to respond to everybody. Sometimes I get a little backed up, but I do, I value the connection and I value the time and energy that people put in to read what I share, to just reach out. So I don't take that lightly. For me, time and energy is very big. You have a finite amount in this life and the fact that you're willing to give me some of that is more valuable than anything you could possibly imagine. And Hallie, that goes for you too. Taking you know the time you've taken to to meet with me today means a lot and I appreciate you. I appreciate where you're doing. Thank you for giving me some space.

Thank you John. This has been absolutely amazing and we will make sure that all of your contact information is included in the show notes underneath episodes so everybody can easily find you. And again it's just been fantastic.

Yeah it's been great. I really appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you found value in this episode and want to hear more of these myot air weight and feeding related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode on your social media platforms. You can access free resources and all I offer@halliebalkin.com or pop over to Hollybalken on Instagram to get all the latest updates.