Episode 262: Ready, Set, Connect with Jessie Ginsburg, MS, CCC-SLP

Hi and welcome to episode 262 of the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Jesse Ginsburg joining us. Jesse is a sensory trained speech language pathologist and CEO of Pediatric Therapy Playhouse, a top rated clinic in Los Angeles, California. She's an international speaker, creator of the global Inside out sensory communication programs and author of Ready Set Connect, a sensory based approach to accelerate communication in autistic children. Quick Disclaimer all information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified health care provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Holly Balkan. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional Therapy, airway, tethered oral tissue and pediatric feeding therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019, thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode, remember to listen with correct oral rest posture, tongue up, lips closed, teeth apart, breathe through your nose. Let's get started. Jesse, welcome to the podcast.

Oh my gosh. So excited to be here. This is very exciting.

I know, I know. I feel like we have all kinds of conversations outside of recording, so we might as well get on here and record a podcast together. Especially because I know you've got some big things happening. You got a book coming out soon, and I know we'll dive into that a bit today. But we also have Autism Awareness Month going on and some other fun things we're going to talk about. But before we dive into all that stuff, one of the biggest burning questions, and I know I mentioned this before we recorded, but one of the biggest things that I have for you, and it's probably the only question, honestly that I have, aside from what's going to naturally, you know, roll out of my mouth while we're talking, is how do you address when people go, hey, I didn't know SLPs like do sensory, Like, I don't know. I didn't know that the sensory system is something that speech pathologists address. Like, isn't that like the OT's domain? Can you like talk a little bit about that? Because you are like the sensory asd queen in the SLP world.

Thank you, first of all. And it is usually a meaner version of that question. So that was a very nice way to ask that question. Usually it's like, you shouldn't be doing that or you know, that's not within your scope, all of that. Which is why it's one of my favorite things to talk about is why sensory is in the scope of the slp. And I feel like talking about it wasn't enough. I had to go out, publish ash articles on it. I even reached out to Dr. Winnie Dunn, who is the world renowned OT who created the Sensory Profile, probably the most commonly used sensory assessment out there. And I consulted with her when I was creating my course and I had these conversations with her and that helped a lot too because I don't know, there's just something, the word. Well, I guess scope creep is supposed to have a negative connotation, right? But it just really drives me crazy because there is room for everyone at the sensory table. Sensory is a part of everyone's lives every single minute of the day. And there is not one person on this earth who shouldn't understand sensory. And you know, the thing is that the reason that SLPs use a sensory based approach is very different than why, say OTs will use a sensory based approach. And that's because our goals are different. So in my mind, you know, sensory is not the goal, it's the approach we're using to meet the goal. And OTs need sensory so that they can work on all these activities of daily living and, and all of these fine motor skills and gross motor skills that they're teaching. We need sensory so that we can help to get our kids into a regulated state, so that our sessions are more effective, so that they're learning, so that we can go on to work on communication and all of the other things we're doing.

Yeah, I mean, with feeding, it's like so vital that we're in a place of rest and digest and we're not like in that fight or flight. And I feel like that's the nervous system, the sensory system. It's like everything has to basically come to a very calm place so that we can access what we need to in order to work towards our other goals. So I love that you kind of highlighted that because I mean, isn't it true unless. Unless I'm totally out of touch because I'm not treating right now. But isn't it true that like sensory processing disorder, like, does it still not have a Diagnostic code. Like it's not a standalone diagnosis. Correct. Okay.

Because I've. I've posted this question I just did recently, and I did about a year ago, and I asked my audience, I said, is it neurodiversity affirming? Do you feel it's neurodiversity affirming? You know, keep in mind, there's no right answer here, but do you feel like it's neurodiversity affirming to say sensory processing disorder, or should we say sensory differences? Right. Because thinking from the neurodiversity paradigm, the idea is that our brain is processing the world differently. So, like, autistic people, for example, communicate differently, process emotions differently. So is sensory disorder or is it a difference? And it's so funny because I asked that twice, got thousands of responses, and it was almost 50. 50. Both times, it was maybe like 45% said we should call it sensory processing disorder, and 55 said sensory differences.

Wow.

Interesting. Interesting. Because the argument for calling it sensory processing disorder is usually, you know, we need to validate the fact that this is something that's very real, that can impact someone's life every single day. And if we call it sensory differences, is that being, you know, portrayed in the way that we're describing a child? Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's definitely one of those conversations that I feel like I. I hear a lot of it, but, you know, I feel like when sensory plays into the work that I've done as far as, like, what I've taught. I know, and I learned early on, you, like, you can't separate the sensory system from the motor system. Like, in its most simplistic way of describing it. Right. Like, I know that everything is kind of taught in silos and, like, so we typically will learn about the sensory system, we'll learn about the motor system. But, like, truly, when you're assessing or treating a child, you're getting everything, and you're kind of having to address everything. And so that's why I also, again, love your approach because those strategies that address the sensory system are key to success. I mean, that's. That's huge for a lot of our little ones.

Yeah. As you were just talking, it just. I just had a flashback to the session. I had this kid come in, and it was supposed to be for feeding therapy. He was almost five. He was still on purees, and he. His. It was really interesting kid. They'd done a bunch of genetic testing. He ended up getting, like, multiple diagnoses, but he came in for this session where parents wanted us to work on feeding, and he was just so dysregulated, you know. And I said, well, how do you normally feed him? While we strap him into the chair and play the iPad and spoon feed him, you know? And I'm like, oh, man, this is not. They thought that this therapy was going to be, you know.

Yeah.

I was like, we can't. We're not ready for that yet. Gotta work on getting them regulated. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and it's. It's very interesting too, because as you're sharing that, I'm thinking back to just so many different cases that have come through my practice where children come, families, right? You know, caregivers, they come, and it's like they've been through so much trauma surrounding feeding or even just surrounding language intervention, sometimes based on certain approaches or programs. And, you know, we get these kids and it's the exact same thing. I'm like, I will not never call myself, like, an expert in anything sensory, but it's like, how do you as a clinician not look at a child and go like, wow, like, we really kind of need to address some other things before we can even tackle those goals that they came here for. You know, whether it's feeding, language, other activities of daily living, if you're an OT or whatever, you know, it's like, this kid is not ready to receive the therapy. And also, like, to that point, from like, a gross motor standpoint, I remember, like, being a young clinician and taking a kid, like, outside on the playground to do a session, and I'd be like, why do they talk so much more when they're moving? Like, what's happening that, you know, they're running around on the playground. We're getting so much more, like, language, like spontaneous language, but also, like, they're responding to me more and we're moving. We're not, like, doing this, like, focused activity, right? And I'm like, it started just like dawn on me, like, how we're so interconnected throughout our body and how all systems really need to be, like you said, like, regulated in order to work towards, you know, some of our goals. So I don't know, I feel like my. And those were a mix of children who were autistic and children who were, you know, who weren't who. I just feel like my autistic kiddos early on were the ones who really taught me the most, especially in feeding, because I used to watch them and be like, okay, they want me to work on language with this kid. And this kid's, like, withholding a bowel movement right now. Like, they're not available to do that. Why are we not addressing this? Like, why are we not addressing the root cause here? Or, okay, the kid is, like, on the floor spinning some wheels, and they want me to stop that. Like, why. Why would we stop that? Why wouldn't I just get down on the floor and kind of join them and see they, you know, take to that? I don't know. Like, why don't I just meet them where they're at? And I feel like that was just my intuition. As a new clinician, I didn't know what was right or what was wrong or what the research said or didn't say. And I didn't really care because I was like, on a human level, I just want to figure out a way to, like, get in and connect. And so, like, I really, like, I always say, I think all of those children who are autistic who are autistic because they honestly were the ones who kept me on my toes and who made me a better clinician and, like, stopping, not, like, listening to all the things I was taught and, like, going, okay, how. How do we connect? Like, the connection is most important because once we connect, I know we can do other things. And, like, honestly, they were just my most. My most favorite, like, little ones early on in my career.

Yes. I feel like, yes, hands up emoji, yes to everything you're saying. Like, I've said everything that just came out of your mouth before, and I think that that's what's so hard, as we all have these intuitive feelings that this doesn't feel good, and it doesn't seem like it's working, so why are we doing it? And that's actually the not. Wasn't the first time I wrote for Asha, but it was the first thing. Time I wrote for Asha on this type of approach where we need to really focus on this. These foundations of working with kids. We need to focus on regulation. We need to focus on engagement. And I wrote this article for Asha. I was terrified because I was basically saying, I don't care about language until I think about these other things. And it was just one of those things where I put my heart out on the line, and I was so scared to publish it. And like I said, I had written for Asha before. And you have your email address in there. Okay. That's a requirement when you write for them. I had written for them before. How many people had ever reached out to me? Zero. Okay. The Day this article came out, I had hundreds of emails in my inbox just flooding in. And it was just everyone saying exactly what you said. It was everyone saying, I've always felt like this, but I didn't know that other people felt the same. Or like, this gives me permission that it's okay to feel this way. Now what do I do? And that's honestly how my sensory course and my programs were born, because it was all these people saying, I agree, I want to do it differently, but how do I do that? And they just didn't know that was.

Going to be my question. Like, did you. Is that when you started your online business and everything?

Yeah, that's exactly what started it. And it's funny because you said earlier, you said, you know, it felt like they weren't ready to work on language sometimes in those sessions. And that's exactly the premise of my book. And it's called Ready, Set, Connect, which is called Of a play on words because, you know, if you're a pediatric therapist, you say Ready, Psycho all day long. But also it's this idea that, like, we can't do that until we focus on these couple of first steps. So it's like, what is ready, what is set? And then we can go on to work our magic and work on communication, learning, feeding, whatever our goals are. But we really have to strengthen regulation, engagement, make sure what we're doing is motivating for the child in order to be able to get to where we want to go.

I love that. I love that. Like, it's. I'm sitting here, my wheels are turning because I'm like, this happens even, like, with working with patients in a myofunctional therapy setting, like adult patients, right? Like, we have so many adults who are walking around dysregulated, whether they're autistic or they're not, right? And they're, you know, I was a dysregulated adult. I do, you know, have adhd, right? But I'm like, it wasn't until, I don't know, a couple years ago that I even started to realize how dysregulated that I was by nature of just looking in the mirror and working with other patients, like adult patients. And I was like, oh, so this is what dysregulation feels like, and this is what dysregulation looks like. And I am literally walking. I'm very successful, but I am dysregulated most of the time. And so it kind of forced me to turn inward and figure out How I could help myself and then in turn, turn around and help my patients.

Right?

And, like, the other thing, too, that I think was so fascinating about this was a lot of these dysregulated, like, adults walking around also just need that initial connection they need. Like, that's something that, like, people are like, well, how do you have such success, like, treating patients? And I was like, well, first you need to realize the person sitting in front of you is a human, whether they're an adult or a child. Like, once we can identify with the fact that this is a human in front of us and not just a goal on a piece of paper, then we start to connect in a different way. We find out what they need from us and why they're there, and we start to address that and not our pre. You know, conceived notions of why they're there based on the form they filled out or the intake they filled out. And, you know, what we find in our evals and all that, like, it's helpful. We need that information, but also that doesn't dictate, like, what we do going forward. Like, the person sitting in front of you is what dictates, like, what they're there for, what they need that day. One week is gonna look different to the next. And. And it's true inside of, like, myofunctional therapy, speech therapy, feeding therapy, you know, language therapy. I mean, I've seen it across the board myself, and I feel like nobody really teaches this or talks much about it.

When I was a clinical fellow, I started working with this autistic boy who was 3, and he wasn't talking too much. Like, I remember at the time, our goal was, like, answering what questions, right? And his mom had a degenerative disease, and she. She passed away the year after this. And I just knew how much he was going through at home. And I knew that so many of these, you know, behaviors they were seeing at school had to be so deeply rooted and how difficult it was at home. And I used to just have him come in every day to my sessions, and I would sit him on my lap. I know not all people can do that or do that. I would, like, sit him straight on my lap, facing me, and I would just talk to him, and I would just say, how was your day? What'd you do? This is what I did today. And he wasn't talking back. You know, he didn't have the language initially. And there was this one day, and it's like, it all. It all happens so slowly, but it's like, in the blink of an eye, kids change so much. You know, we're parents. We know the years are. Days are long, years are short kind of thing. But there was this one day, and every session I started like that because I was like, I love this kid, and I'm gonna, like, give this kid this love. And home is so hard. And I know he needs that extra emotional connection. And there was this one day where he came in and he was crying, and his parents said he had such a hard day at school, but he's not telling us anything about what happened. And I sat him down just like I normally would, and I faced him toward me, and I was asking him about school, and he told me that he was. They were supposed to go to the gym with their class, and he didn't want to because there was a big fan in the gym, and it was so loud, and he was kicking and kicking the door and screaming. And I just remember thinking that day, like, man, I can't believe he just told me that. Like, I can't believe we got to a place where it was just me talking at him to the time when he can not only tell me what was going on during the day, but be able to identify his sensory needs on top of that and what was bothering him, you know, and that was, like, a huge learning point for me as a therapist, was because I was just like, it doesn't matter sometimes, the goal, because if you just. If your goal is to connect with someone, you're always going to be moving toward whatever goal that is.

Yeah, that's beautiful. I like the whole, like, if your goal is to connect with somebody, you'll move towards your goals, ultimately your other goals. I think that's. It's so critical. And I always say, like, what we do is a dance between an art and science. And if you only fall on the science and you just depend on, like, what the textbook says or what the research says, like, you're going to miss the boat, like, 95% of the time, unfortunately.

Okay, Holly, that is literally. I have that written in my book.

Stop it. Okay. I haven't read the book, I guess. So tell us more.

It says it's an art and a science. And I. That's what I talk about. I talk about. I mean about, like, what is the science part of our job? And then what is the art? You know, because the science is the part that we learn in the book, and it's the easy to follow, but the art is the thing that you're going to Learn with experience. That's so funny. But, you know, back to what you said about how so many adults are dysregulated and we don't know or we don't know how to help ourselves. My partner Chris and I were just speaking. We had this audience, a few hundred people, and this one woman said, I have this kid, he's five, and, you know, he can't tell me, like, when I want to understand his sensory needs, but he can't tell me what they are. And I said, I'm gonna. There wasn't time for her question, so I was like, I'll answer this tomorrow. And then I went back to her hotel and I sat there thinking about it, and I was like, my answer is, he shouldn't be able to do that. Like, we barely know what our needs are. How are we expecting a five year old who, like, how can we. Are they gonna say, I need a hug, I need deep squeezes, I need a walk? No, like, you are probably like me, which means I could, like, sit at my computer for 10 hours straight and work. And as much as I know I need to move, I'm not actually doing it because I'm ignoring the signals my body's sending me. And it's like, if we do this to ourselves and we constantly put ourselves in a state of dysregulation, how can we expect kids to do differently? So it all starts with teaching them, you know, and you have to help them figure out what their needs are. You can't just expect. Expect them to know that.

That's such a great point. Because I think that as adults, we way too often expect children to be like little mini adults. And when we can't, like you're saying, like, when we can't even, you know, identify or verbalize or vocalize, like, what it is that we need and put into words or thoughts, like, what we need to do to help ourselves. Why are we expecting that of children?

Like, just think about, like, being in a relationship, how much greater it would be if you actually knew what your needs were and were able to tell that person. But so often we don't know what those needs are. And then, like, we end up not addressing them, and then they come up as bigger issues, you know?

Yep, 1,000%, yes.

And on that front, I will say once you get to know the sensory needs of the people around you, especially your significant other, you will fight about less things. I swear, this is how it is. Like, I'm like, Chris, he has adhd. He loves to move. You Guys may know him as Speech Dude. Can't get myself to call him that. And he'll come home after a long day, and he will be like, okay, do you want to go to Home Depot? And then go grocery shopping? I'm like, I have, like, six episodes of Love is Blind. Can you. No, thank you. That's the last thing on my to do list. But the thing is that our needs are so different, and I need to, like, calm sit, and he needs to move. Right. But it's like, we put these expectations on other people that we expect what feels good to us to be the same thing that's going to feel good to them, and we're just not understanding that everyone has individual differences. But once we can do that, I'm like, you go have fun. Go to the store. That is so great for you and me. And I'm gonna be here doing what's. What's regular.

You go do our shopping. I'm gonna sit here decompressing. Fantastic. And that's. I think that's, like, such a beautiful thing, because my husband and I, like, I feel like this is actually, like, a work in progress where it wasn't until I was, like, working with somebody, like, one of my, like, guides, advisors, mentors, whatever. Whatever you want to call her, where we were kind of diving into some.

Of this, and as I sat back.

I was like, oh, and he's kind of a private person, so I won't go into, like, too much detail, but he started to tell me some things about when he was, like, a little kid, and I was like, I think he's got a lot of sensory things going on. Okay, all right. How do. And so then I was kind of like, how do we address this? Like, how do I change my own behaviors and actions to support that? Because I feel like things would just be so much easier for us, and, like, things will be more in flow and, like, less arguments, like you said. And it's absolutely 100% true, because on the days when I'm able to, like, tap into that, I feel like where everybody's happy and the house is just a whole different, you know, energy and vibe. And then on the days where I'm like, I don't have the capacity to give right now in the way that, like, maybe he needs. Even though he's not telling me he needs that, I just know he needs that, But I'm kind of like, nope, not, Not. Not happening right the second. I just feel like those are also the days when the house gets a little Bit more chaotic. So. So it's a lot to put on myself. But at the same time, like, to your point, if we all kind of know like how we best serve ourselves and the others in our lives and when it comes to like our sensory systems and regulation and everything. Yeah, I mean, that's. I'm like deep in the throes of like experimenting with that in my own household. And even my 8 year old, right. She's a kiddo. She had an absolute meltdown on Sunday. I actually was like, is she getting sick? Like, this is so out of character for her. But she's like my sensory, you know, eater. She's become way more adventurous like at. After some expansion and some work and whatever else. But she still will prefer to like fall back, you know, on her ways. And I've noticed that that's when she's more tired or her, you know, it's like she doesn't have as much. She's not as regulated. Right. It's much easier to fall back on like a chicken nugget or foods that don't feel like they take as much energy for her. But I've like discovered, I feel like in the past, like year or so that she's a kid who will push you away if you offer her a hug. If you're like, hey, do you need a hug? She's like, no. Like, don't touch me. And if I just go up and go, you look like you need a hug. And I kind of just like wait for her to like, kind of give me that look, like, yes. But I'm not going to say yes because something in my being is telling me I should say no just to be defiant. Like, it's like I just kind of go give her like a little hug.

And give her a squeeze.

And she kind of looks at me like, yep, exactly what I needed. You know, it's. It's interesting and like, obviously she's my own kid and I really try to take an approach of like getting permission and not just like doing. But I also feel like she didn't know in the beginning that that's what she needed until I was, you know, giving her like some squeezy hugs. And then she was like, oh, like, that feels really good. And now it's like, now we've got this kind of like, not like, you know, there's no real language between it. I can even look at her and just kind of walk up and, you know, no verbal language, I should say. And I kind of look at her and I go up and I give her a little squeeze and she kind of turns around, gives me that little like, I. And I'm like, all right, continue on. You know, and so I think it's really cool when. When you know your own kids, when you can kind of tap into that, because I feel like that's been a big journey for me is figuring out what she needs and like, what serves her best. And it's also very interesting because she likes it. She likes it when I do it, but she doesn't want it for anybody else. It's like, only for mama.

Yeah. And totally. It's just so life changing to be able to think about that with your kids. And I know, you know, I have four kids. They all have completely different. They're also like, you have one kid and you're like, oh, I get this. I know how to parent. And then your next kid comes, you're like, oh, wait, this kid's actually way different. And then you're like, okay, well now I have one of each, which means the third is going to be like one of them, and then the third is not like one of them, and then the fourth is not like any of the three or four. Right. So it's like, that has been a really interesting journey for me to be on. But you know, what you bring up is such a good point, which is you're able to co regulate with her, right? You're sharing your calm with her, and that is helping her to be in a state of regulation. And it also helps you as the parent, because parents get really dysregulated when our kids are dysregulated. So it's almost like it's mutual that it's serving both of us when we are able to have those moments with our kids. And, and that's something I talk a lot about in my book is how can we take this a step further? Because right now, the way a lot of people use a sensory approach and kind of the way the world is set up is this put out the fire reactive approach. Let's let the kid get dysregulated and then we'll figure out how to help them. Let's let him have a meltdown and then we'll figure out how to help them. Where is. Where are all the proactive strategies that we can be using? And one of the best ways to do that is you take those situations where you learn, okay, this child is dysregulated. Here's what helped them. And then you work toward that in the Future, you know, and if the child's old enough, you talk to them and you talk to them when they're regulated. You know, like the next day after something really hard happens, you talk to them and say, oh, I know yesterday was so hard. And you really didn't like this. It seemed like, you know, getting a hug was really helpful. Or it seemed like when you went to the teacher and you told them you needed to take a walk was really helpful for you. I wonder if that's something that you could do in the future. And it's also, you know, as you said and had a good example of, our language can be really dysregulating for kids and sometimes we're putting a demand on them just by asking a question. When instead, you know, Chris and I were working on at home with our kids using more declarative language. Right. Like, I wonder if next time you're feeling a little overwhelmed, your teacher would let you take a walk around the school or what we do to our. He just turned three. I was going to say two year old. Three year old. I wonder which toothpaste you're going to pick out tonight. It's not, go brush your teeth, time for bed.

It's not, which one do you want? Right. It's like, I wonder which one you're going to pick.

I bet you're going to get the strawberry or I don't know, you're going to get the grape. Right. And it's just that the, the way that we talk to our kids can either regulate them or disregulate them as well.

Yeah. And, and I love my husband dearly, but he, that is like one of the major things that we're trying to work on in this house. And I'm like, just follow my lead, copy what I do. Because it's like if I, if I'm getting the kids ready for school, there's no screaming, there's no crying. Most days, you know, everybody's regulated. We send them off really great. And otherwise if I'm like, If I sleep 10 minutes later and my husband goes up and wakes them up and has to get them dressed and like brush teeth and get them down, like someone's probably yelling, someone's probably crying. And it's just, it's a different delivery of like the same information and tasks, but they just, they don't respond to that. And I'm like, I always go, do they not respond to it because they know it's different when I do it? And they're like, they feel more Regulated. So now they're like, so hyped, like, up that their response is just like, so overreactive when it's not, you know, anyways, it's. Yeah, it's constantly a conversation. And quite honestly, it's something that we're working through because I'm like, how do we. I'm like, I don't expect him to change as a human per se, but I'm like, can we change our language when we're talking to the kids and how we, you know, pose things to them, especially when they're not an option. Right. It's not like you said, like, it's not, do you want to brush your teeth now or in five minutes? It's like, hey, I wonder which toothpaste you're going to use right now. Like, which. Which one of those. Right, that.

I wonder which one.

You have to go to school in 15 minutes. Get this done.

Yeah, It's a good point, though, because it's hard to the train people, for lack of a better word. I hate to say that when we're talking husbands, but, you know, it's something we learn through practice and experience. And, like, what I heard Brene Brown talk about this where she's like, you know, my husband and I, we know that we don't have to be 100% each, but I. I'm could be like, completely changing the way she said this, by the way.

But no, no, I know make up.

A hundred percent between the two of us. So if I'm at. If I come home and I'm only at 20%, my husband's gonna make up for that 80, you know, and I feel like that kind of thing is something Chris and I do really well together. Like when I get really overwhelmed because my. I'm a more sensitive person, sensory wise, he's. He's less sensitive. When I get really overwhelmed, he can come in, you know, and I think it's a lot of just that balancing act. But honestly, it's just. It's so much harder with your own kids than it is with your clients. I'll just say that.

Oh, for sure. I mean, I feel like that that's across the board. I always joked, I'm like, yeah, I mean, I was a great feeding therapist until I had my own kids. And then everything I knew went out the window. And I mean, honestly, with Lily, I wasn't working with infants at that point. But even, like, when we got to toddlerhood, I was like, I don't remember anything. This is only my specialty. But it's fine. I remember nothing. That's the point where she became really picky. Yeah. No.

Yeah. Well, I took your mayo course, as you know, for my children, and I am now their myotherapist, so they're working on that.

So fun. So fun. Good luck. Good luck. Wish you all the best of luck.

You know.

So they always say, like, doctors make the worst patients. I'm like, therapists make the worst therapists. No, I'm kidding. To their own children. Yes. No, we're amazing. Except for, you know, what was hardest for me was, like, the consistency. And that always made me also, like, kind of go. I'm really glad that I was always realistic with patients, because I'm not treating right now. So when I say was, that's why I'm using this language this way. I always, like, felt like, okay, what's realistic? And then also, like, what is it that we want them to actually do and what is realistic? Because life. And that was even before kids, that I kind of would try and take that perspective. And I always try to, like, any, like, carryover for home or anything that I would give them. I would try to build it into, like, what they're already doing in their schedule. So it's such a natural thing to, like, work on while they're driving in the car, they're brushing their teeth or whatever. And it's not, like, extra homework, because nobody's doing that. Let's just be honest. It's very rare that you get the amazing, you know, person who's like, give me extra homework, and we're going to sit down for 30 minutes a day and work on this. Like, no, that's not. To most people. So, yeah, I'm like, as a therapist mom, when Ivan was treating my own children, I was like, oh, man, this is hard. This is really hard to carve all.

This time in therapy at my clinic, like, they've all been here. Yeah.

I had my team treat them. That's. And what I ended up doing, because I was just like, yeah, I can. I can work on some homework if I remember.

But, yeah, I know. It's rough breath. Life, the therapy, the time. Yes.

So tell us more about this book. Like, are there other, like, big concepts or, like, anything else you want to share about it? I feel like we've kind of, like, not, like, just by nature of chatting. We kind of hit some really cool topics.

Yeah. It's funny because for so long I said, I want to write a book, but I can't because I don't Write like, I'm a researcher, you know, And I was like, I just. I would sit down to try to write it, and I would try to write it in a way that was so formal. And this was I. My ex husband, who, when I. When we were together and I was in grad school, and he was right, helping me with all my papers and editing them and always telling me, like, my writing's too casual. And, you know, as someone who was in law school, of course, would feel that way. So I had this idea in my mind, like, I can't write a book unless it's, like, so formal. And, like, textbook. Ironically, I've written a chapter in a textbook, which is way different than this.

But, like, I.

It just. It wasn't fun. And I would sit down and I try to write, and I put it away and I go, maybe next year. And I decided.

Debilitating story, though, like, that you had about, like, what it meant to write a book. Yeah.

And then I sat down, I was like, you know what. What would happen if I just wrote, like, in my voice, like, the voice in my head, what it was saying, you know? And I decided I'm just gonna do it. And one of the reasons was because when I would go on social media and I would write out a story, people resonated with those stories, you know, And I was like, well, if they're gonna resonate with them on a post, then they'll resonate with it. The same kind of writing in a book. So I sat down, I said, I'm gonna write this book. And I wrote it in, like, a month or, like, six weeks or something, because I was so motivated to write it in a way that felt authentic to me, you know? So really, what it ended up being, which I didn't know when I started what it would be, but what it ended up being was basically a collection of, like, a child I'd worked with, what I'd learned, that big concept or takeaway, and then how you can take that and implement that into your therapy, you know, so, like, stories about how I learned that, you know, connection was so important. And, like, some stories that are, like, so inspiring and some that are so heartbreaking and the lessons that were learned. But then how can you take this and how can you start implementing this type of approach, you know, and, like, how I learned why it's so important to incorporate sensory needs and then some concepts related to that and then how you can do it. So, yeah, I'm really happy with the structure, and it's so Functional.

And I feel like people are going to eat it up because one, everyone's like, tell me what you do in therapy, like, give me some strategies. And so I feel like when you share actual stories that are based on like real experiences and like kind of what shaped you as a therapist, like people are going to eat this up. I mean, this sounds amazing. I'm excited for you.

So I'm excited. Yeah, yeah, I know.

I was like kind of wondering what inspired the book. And I mean you just answered that. But it's like everyone's like, hallie, write a book, write a book, write a book. And honestly it's been like three years and my like dentist friend and I have been writing like a children's like series. It's like very short, like three little mini like books. But it's just like life happens. We put it on, you know, we table it. Like it's literally done. So at this point it should be out. Like, I don't know when but, but everyone's like, no, write like a, like a full on book. And I'm like, okay, maybe one day.

That actually got me to, is knowing that it didn't have to be like a 500 page book, you know, because the thing is like I wanted to write a book that I would like to read. And to me I love nothing more than a book that's like under 200 pages. Amazing, right? I don't want to spend a year reading a book. And so just knowing that like it didn't have to be everything I know and every single thing I've ever learned. Because how could I possibly include that all in a book, you know, um, and then I just kind of like ended where it felt natural to end. I don't know. It's a weird process.

No, I mean it's, it's like you trust your gut and you kind of like, like lean into like the process and what you're doing and what you, what feels good to you. And I, I am like, I'm like listening to you and I'm like taking notes in my head because everyone's like, well, if you wrote a book, what would it be on? And I, I can't tell you how many people have asked me that question and how many times I've said, I don't know, like, I have no idea. Cause it's not really been something that I've committed to. I don't know, I've always had this like inkling in my gut of like, maybe you should write a book. Maybe you should write a book. Maybe you should write a book. That feels like a natural next step. But when you tell me to do something, I'm gonna do the exact opposite. Like, that's.

Yeah, don't write a book either. Just do not do it. Don't do it.

I always tell people. I'm like. It's like when Teresa was like, you know, we really need a pediatric feeding course. And I was like, yeah, we do. And that sounds like a lot of work. And she's like, I mean, I could always tell somebody else to go do it. I was like, wait, let me sleep on. Yeah, no, I feel like there's a book in me somewhere. I just. I'm, like, not sure what the topic is, so. But this is, like, so inspirational, because at one point I was like, oh, I could probably put together a book, like, from some podcast episodes and, like, take some of the best podcasts and put that together into a book. Because I think that would be really cool to, like, pull some information together in that way. But I just.

Yeah. And someone had told me that. Someone's like, you don't even need to write if you want. You could literally just take content you've made, and then that's your book, you know? Yeah. But it's also just nice. I feel like just being around people who are doing cool things has always been helpful for me and our mutual friend Jenna Castro Caswan. She's like, really was probably the last. What's the positive way to say, last straw? Like, the last. In a good way.

She was like, the last cheerleader who was like, you need to do this.

Yeah. Because she wrote a book. And I was like, if Jenna, who's my friend, can, like. Because all these other people I know have written books, you know, it's like, oh, there are these huge researcher this and that, and I'm like, okay, Jenna, if someone. I can text and if my friend can write a book, like, I'm doing this. Like, her. Yes. So it's your turn.

Did you use. You're passing a baton. Okay, fine. Did you use, like, an agency or any, like, any consultants or anything to, like, help you in writing and kind of guide you? I feel like that's like, a big thing, and the universe keeps dropping people in my lap. So that's why I also feel like it might happen sooner than later, but who knows?

Yeah. No, I used a coach. It was the same as Jenna's. And it's just kind of funny because you ultimately do all the writing. Like, I think sometimes you think oh, when you use. I always thought when you use an editor, it's almost like not a ghostwriter, but like somewhere in the middle. Because I've written articles where they've come back completely like moved around and my words have been.

Ash is a special case. So.

Like I just assumed there would be a lot more like writing from the editor. But that was definitely not my process. Like, if anything, the reason it was helpful was because I just have no idea the process and it was just the accountability. You know, the coach I worked with, normally she would meet with someone like once a month for six months or one twice a month for six months. And I was like, well, what if I met with you every week? Could we get this done quicker? And we did. You know, so accountability. But you have to. It's like the. Do you. Are you a Tony Robbins fan?

So I don't have anything against him. I'm just not someone who's like taken his courses or like, you know, But I feel like a lot of the people who I've listened to all like a lot of them came from. Yeah, Tony Robbins.

I'm big Tony Robbins. It's kind of embarrassing because he's like so gung ho, you know, but he has a great quote which is once you have truly committed to something, the how will reveal itself, you know. So I feel like it's just one of those things where you commit to it and then it's true. I'm doing this period and then.

Yeah, right. Well, that's the whole thing. Everyone's like, are you doing it? And I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, so it's like I'm totally non committal. So I know once I think that's part of it too. Like, I know once I commit to it, I'm gonna be full on, like in book writing mode. And I'm like, you know, there's like other things I want to take you.

And what you're doing every single day.

Give me a few months, guys, before I commit to this. Okay, well, this is amazing. So where do they find your book? How do they find you? Share all the things.

Ready, set. ConnectBook.com is where you will find it. And we have these awesome bonuses and free trainings that we've created. So once you order the book, you will also get a bunch of bonuses, including a guidebook that walks you read and implement as you walk through and read the book. And yeah, I'm just really excited. I feel like this is one of those things where it's Going to give you strategies to take away and just be able to implement immediately. And this is what so many therapists I've worked with through our sensory course feel. It's like you learn a concept and you go into the session and you do it, and then you are amazed that it works. You know, it's one of those things where once you focus on regulation, you will see immediate changes in your kids. It's not like something that's going to take years and years to see. It's like you come to them with the right approach, you're going to see immediate changes and progress.

So cool. So cool. I love this, and I love that you have a guide and, like, the bonuses. Like, that's very cool, too, because, you know, for people who need like, that, you know, like, let's take the concept from the book and put it on paper so I can take it and then implement it into my session. I feel like you've kind of given them that, like, middle piece that'll help them more easily make that connection when working with their patients. It's like you take a class, you walk out and you're like, okay, I got three ideas, and I know what to do with these three kids. And now what? You know, I feel like you're giving them, like, ongoing strategies that, you know, they can implement. So that's, again, like I think I said before, functional. Like, this is so functional. And that's one of the biggest things that, like, one of my biggest pet peeves, or maybe it's not a pet peeve, but complaints about so many courses out there. Not that this is a course, but I feel like I leave and it's exactly what I just said. I have an idea of, like, ideas of what to do with three kids. And then beyond that, I'm like, now what do I do and who else can I help? And why do I feel pigeonholed into only knowing what to do with three. So these three kids. And I feel like that was such a pattern for me that I was like, that's what I want to change with, like, anything I put out into the world. I want to create critical thinkers. I want to give people, like, useful information they can go and implement now, but that they can continue to apply, like, in therapy and across patients and so. And just, like, add to their toolbox, right? Like, not everything works for everybody, but if you have enough strategies, I guess, or, like, you know, ways to approach patients, then something's going to work, right? If you kind of have at least a jumping off Point.

So, yes, because it truly is creating critical thinkers. And I know people don't want to hear that because that doesn't feel easy, but those are conversations we have constantly on our team, on our online course team, because that's really what it's about, you know?

Yep, yep. When you can move from, like, constantly being like, what do I do? What do I do? What do I do? Help me with this patient. Help me with this patient. Which, listen, like, as you know, people who are experts in the field still consult with colleagues on, like, patient cases. So I'm not saying you're not. You know, you need to go out and figure out what to do 100% of the time by yourself. But if you can't approach a single patient case without, like, having the ability to maybe try something and see what happens and then problem solve and. Okay, that. That kind of worked, but it only worked last week. It's not working today. Like, where do we go from here? And not just, like, shutting down and, like, not knowing, you know, throwing your hands up in the air and being like, oh, I need someone else to tell me what to do. I feel like there's, you know, we gotta move beyond that to the point of, okay, I got enough tools in my tool belt. I'm gonna try this. Okay, that didn't work. Let's try that. Okay, that's not working either. Okay, now let's try this thing. Okay, it's kind of working. Okay, now that I've tried, like, three things and I'm, like, really struggling. Let me get some mentorship. Right? You know what I mean? It's like trialing it before. We just kind of throw our hands up in the air when something doesn't work the first time. That. That's my little pet peeve. But we don't have to go there.

I just love everything you're saying. I feel like we live parallel lives, but, like, in different universes. You know, like, you're in the feeding world, and then I'm in, like, autism therapy, and we're just. Yeah, yeah. So much fun.

But it's like, at the end of the day, like, we're both dealing with humans, right? So I feel like so many of the concepts apply universally because we're not training pets. We're working with little, you know, humans. So just saying, amazing, amazing. And where did you share? Where they can find you?

On Instagram, Sensory slp. That's where I am.

Perfect. Well, everything will be in the show notes, so they'll be able to find your book. And your Instagram. I know you mentioned Chris on Instagram. A speech, dude. We'll put all that in there so you guys can find Jesse and Chris wherever you need them. Jesse, thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you. Hallie, I just. You're so amazing. I love you so much. You're such a good friend and you're so supportive and you're doing so many, like, it's just every time I talk to you, you're doing something new and you, like, do everything at 100%. And I'm just so happy I can.

Have you in my guarantee you. Thank you. First of all, thank you. I received that. But I can guarantee you it's not 100%. I can promise you that. And I always tell everybody it looks. I feel like a lot more successful on the front end because I feel like I've got this amazing team behind me, which I know you can appreciate too, like, as a business owner, you know, but they make me look good and, like, yes, obviously I have to show up and, like, do certain things to, like, push everything forward. So I will give myself credit where credit is due.

Yes. But I. But also, props to your team.

Thank you. But that. It made me think of a quote from one of my, like, past mentors, Jim Fortin, where he said something along the lines of, like. And I don't know if this was his quote or not, but not. But 70% success or 70% perfectionist success, 100 success or 100 perfectionist failure. And like, when I sat and listened to that, I was like, oof. Because at the time, I was such a type A personality that I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Not receiving that. And now, like, years later, I'm like, yeah, I wish I learned that lesson way earlier on.

Done is better than perfect.

Yes, yes. It's funny. I was thinking of, like, podcast topics for my other podcast today and that I wrote that down. Done. It's better than perfect. I actually wrote those words down. We are living parallel lives, Jesse. What is going on here? I love it. Well, thank you again for joining me. This has been so fun.

Yes, thank you.

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