Episode 275: Advocating for Change with Michelle Elmasri, CCC-SLP

Hi and welcome to episode 275 of the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Michelle El Masri joining us. Michelle is a passionate pediatric speech language pathologist who earned her master's degree in 2018. She began her career in a school setting where she quickly discovered her love for helping children. She was eager to make a more significant impact, so she transitioned into a clinic, fulfilling a longtime dream. However, Michelle's journey didn't stop there. After experiencing burnout, she realized there was a significant gap in education for specific medical therapy practices. This insight led her to create the Pediatric Source, a platform dedicated to empowering pediatric therapists with specialized evidence based education. In addition to her work in direct therapy, Michelle has ventured into the world of health care technology. She currently works for an EMR company that supports SLPs, OTs and PTs, which has given her fresh perspectives and exciting challenges, broadening her professional horizon. Michelle loves the therapy world and thrives on meeting fellow therapists. She's deeply committed to creating a community where therapists can support and uplift each other. Her goal is to foster a better, more supportive world for therapists and the incredible work that they do. Quick Disclaimer all information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified healthcare provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Hallie Balkan. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional Therapy, airway, tethered Oral tissue and Pediatric Feeding Therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019. Thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode, remember to listen with correct oral rest. Posture, tongue up, lips closed, teeth apart, breathe through your nose.

Get started.

Hi Michelle, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.

I know this is going to be a fun conversation. I mean they all are. But I know we're going to talk like business stuff today. But you know, before we dive into that, I would just love for everybody to like know who you are, like share with us from and you can start like from graduating graduate school up until where you are today. Like, what are you doing today as a speech pathologist? And like, how did you get here?

Okay, there's a lot here. So I graduated in 2018, and I've been practicing pretty much ever since. And I never thought that I would end up here where I am today. And I'm going to get into that. So I've always wanted to. To be a medical slp. That was my dream. When I graduated, I only found school placements. And because I was so desperate to get in, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to take it. Then I ended up not necessarily being burnt out, but it really wasn't what I loved doing. I felt like more so a tutor, because all of my speech students were mostly academic and not. I wasn't doing any speech stuff. I was doing science and social studies and English and all these things that. Not really speech therapy. And then I wanted to switch, and this was around Covid and I found your course. And when the feed the PEDs 5 day workshop, and when I had goosebumps, like, all over my arm, like, this is it. Like, this is what I need to be doing. And then I was just thinking about during your whole course, I'm like, wow, like, if I had this, like, years ago when I was born. Because I was thinking back to all of the food aversions I have. And like, I always. Now I'm like, I tell my speech friends, I'm like, I have an audible swallow, like, I'm not doing it right. And I know it's because of something that happened when I was a kid. And then I just dove into that. And I was so adamant on getting into a medical setting, which I did, because I was. I told them during the interview, like, it's a Cali course. And they're like, okay, here's the job, pretty much. So that's how I got into the medical field, because of Feed the peds. And then I struggled a lot. I'll be very honest. Like, I was not cut out for that. I went from everything academic to everything medical. And I thought, I'm going to have nothing but my own oral motor and feeding. And I was so wrong. I had everything, and I had no idea what to do. So I became so super burnt out to the point where I thought I hated speech therapy. Like, I was done. And I'm like, I never want to do this ever again. I felt like a huge imposter, too. And I'm like, I'm just not cut out for this. And then I remember Even driving to work and thinking, like, there has to be a way. Like, there has to be something where I can just, like, find all this information easily. I'm not, like, stuck in textbooks. And that was. I guess that's kind of how I decided my business. Just that struggle alone. But that came much. My business came later. So once I thought, all right, I'm done with speech. I never want to do this again, I took a couple of step backs. Like, I was on it. I took courses left and right, like, I'm a course addict. And then I took a huge break. No courses, nothing hard. I did remote teletherapy, slp, while also trying to get a corporate job outside of speech. Like, I was. I was done. And then I landed that job. But during that time, I was like, wait, I really miss speech. So I did not do speech services for two months. I lasted two months without speech. And then I started. I was like, you know what? I need to start my business. And this is kind of where I am. I now have my platform. I still have a couple clients on the side, and I'm still in, like, the corporate tech side of the world speech world.

Amazing. I, like, there's, like, so much to unpack here. So first of all, I don't know if you've heard, like, my. Have you heard, like, my whole story, like, how, yeah, like, I quit being a speech pathologist for, like, eight months and was like, oh, I missed the kids. And, like, came back, went to work for a private practice for, like, a year. Was like, I can't do this. Opened my own practice. And that was 10 years ago. Right. And so it's so wild. And then as I moved into, like, the online space and was, like, really, truly stepping into, like, being an online CEO, not just, like, private practice CEO, I was like, I don't have time for all the things. Right. And I. I then had a couple kids on the side because I enjoyed it still. And so I was like, I still want to dabble in this a little bit. I still want to work with some of these cases, but eventually, like, I don't. I don't treat right now, Like, I'm not actively treating. And I used to say I'm on a sabbatical, and now I feel like I'm on, like, a permanent sabbatical from treating.

It's a lot. It's. It's a lot to juggle it all.

Yeah, well, there's only so many hours in the day. And you know what's so interesting, too? Like, I was Tell. Before we recorded, I agreed to do this, like, Instagram live with a dentist that's local to my private practice up in Virginia. And it was so fascinating to me because I even had a little bit of imposter syndrome for a little bit. Cause I'm like, I have not been on someone's podcast in a while. I haven't. Like, I'm like, hi. I keep up with the research. Like, I teach and feed the peas. Like we're even doing. It's like Tots module this week in this current round and the Mayo module next week. Like, I'm in the thick of like, teaching it right. But I'm like, I'm not assessing and treating it directly right now. So I get into that, like, imposter syndrome stuff too. But it was so funny because just like having this hour long Q and A where like, they were just asking me questions and I didn't really know what was coming next. I just dove right back into it. Like, I never left. You know what I mean? It's like, I feel like it's just so natural and secondhand now. And so it's so fascinating though to like step, like step back and like reflect. Reflect, right? Because if you had asked me like three years ago, five years ago, six years ago, what I'd be doing today and if I'd be doing this, I probably would have looked at like, I would have been like, yeah, yeah, I want an online business. But like, I never would have imagined, like, back then, right. Like, what I'm doing now. So do you feel like, have you had any similar, like, experiences around that?

Yeah, I mean, my cousin asked me when I launched, he was like, did you ever think you were going to do this? And to some capacity. I've always wanted to own a business. And then I remember in grad school, I was just playing around with like, WordPress, I think, and I made a website called Species Unite. And then, you know, I dropped it. I was like, this was so silly. We have tpt. This isn't. This is never gonna work. And then I think somehow with just my experience, like, maybe that idea was always in my head and it just developed into the platform that I have now. So I feel like, yes and also no. Like, if that makes sense, like 100.

Yes. Because I was the same way. I was like, I always know I'm going to own a business. Like, I thought I knew what it might look like, but, like, it looks nothing like what I imagined. And back when I was going to own a business, I also Thought it was going to be in the financial like sector. Like, I never thought I'd be a speech pathologist. Like, I remember being in college and not doing well in my business classes as a freshman and being like, I don't need these classes to own a business. Like, forget that. And then I switched to education. My dad's like, you're never going to make enough money as an educator working in the school, your lifestyle, where you live. And I was like, oh, okay. But also I never wanted to be like a classroom teacher because I'm too ADHD for that. I always joke, I'm like, I need different. Like I can't be in the same setting every day. Which is why I thrived on traveling to like in the car, right. I'm going to patients homes and schools and daycares and whatever and then coming home and doing some virtual. And it was like that mix of different patients in different settings. Like, it kept me on my toes, but it also like lit me up and like kept the fire burning. You know, it's like I needed that like to not become complacent. And so I'm like, I highly respect teachers, but I'm like, I would go crazy like being in a classroom every day, which I was like, jokes on me because I literally got put in a preschool classroom in a public school setting, but a preschool education programs, classrooms, closet. As a first time speech pathologist right out of school, like, I literally drilled the shelves off the wall with maintenance so that I could push my desk in, which went against the door that did not close to said closet. And then I had a filing cabinet and there was maybe two feet of space for a chair. Like I never actually sat in there cause it was so claustrophobic. And like, I'm like, you're in a classroom, like you can't. So I'd never really had a speech room. So I was always plugging in anyways with the kids and that's. I just learned to like make it work for me. But man, that's, that's why I'm not in the schools anymore. I was so jaded after my first couple years in the schools.

Yeah, I mean I had sessions everywhere. Bathrooms, like the teachers, bathrooms, cafeteria. Yeah, City, city life. There's a lot of space. But I've had a very similar experience. I'm like, this, I'm not helping.

Right, Right. That's how I felt too. I was like some, I was like, this is for somebody else. There's somebody else who would be better at this job. In this setting. And that someone is not me. I was like, this is, I was like, I can, I can go, go, go. I can be flexible. I, I can think on my toes when I'm with a kid. I was like, and I can adapt. I was like, but this is like beyond. Like, I would, I was crying like every day and there's that like whole like ash a joke. Like, just go cry in your car. Like I literally would come home crying. And to the point where like I had an agreement with the university. They paid for, they were supposed to pay for all, but they ended up paying for most of my grad school education. And in turn I signed a three year contract to work for them in the county. And so I was like stuck, stuck. And I didn't have the money, I didn't have the money to pay them back, so I couldn't break the contract. So instead I just cried every day because, you know, I'm like wanting to be your own boss and also like wanting to drive your own ship and then having being stuck in a contract where you're literally miserable. I was like, I never want this ever again in my life. How do we avoid this?

Yes. I mean, being stuck. And that's how they get you too. I mean, my cf, I taught at a high school. Now I love high schoolers, but there was some stuff that were a little inappropriate and I'm like, these kids are taller than me. I'm probably like, not. I don't ever want to work with a high schooler ever again for that reason. But again, my hours were highly dependent on attendance rate. And then when you're in high school, you sometimes kids, you know, you're too cool to be in school. And so my CF took a lot longer just because the attendance rate. Now that was in the beginning. Then after a while I couldn't kick them out of the speech room and their attendance rates were amazing. The principal of the school was like, wow, like we have like a 96% right now. And like that's never been the case. They wanted me to stay, but you're.

Like, you can't pay me enough.

Well, it wasn't that. It was just the DOE school at the time. They didn't take cfs. They needed, they needed someone to supervise me. And for that reason I couldn't join. And because I wanted to finish my cf, I had to switch.

Yeah, because you're in New York, right?

Yeah.

New York has like all kinds of like wonky laws that don't exist in many other states. In the US because like when I was like my cf, so I basically was on contract. So my, and my salary, I was getting paid the same as a teacher. So it's like also jokes on me. Haha. Thanks dad. Like don't become a teacher because you know you'll be able to support your lifestyle. And here I am on a teacher salary and pay scale. Fantastic. Even though I had a master's, I was like, fantastic. Anyways, that's neither here nor there. But yeah, no, I like I basically was locked in and had the job. And that's almost why it was sort of like it would be silly not to take this deal because they're paying for grad school and you have a guaranteed job somewhere in the county. But what they didn't tell me was I wasn't allowed to do infants and toddlers out the gate because I had started with. I only had gone into like the preschool program. And so they're oh no, you can't start like an infants and toddlers. Even though I knew somebody who did. And they were like, well she had an outplacement. And I was like, well I asked for one but you didn't give it to me. Like I didn't know it was going to penalize me with my actual job. So I think there was that. I was also split between two schools. One of the schools was like the like one of the two schools in the county that was like a self contained school for special needs. And um, everyone there understood what we did and they appreciated us and it was like a really nice place to work. And then there was the other school where I was in the closet as I mentioned. And that was just in a typical elementary school. It was the first year that they ever had a preschool education program like for special needs, you know, children with special needs and everything, like in their school setting. And they had no clue what the program did outside of a typical preschool, let alone what a speech pathologist would do in that program. Yeah, so I was just, it was like such night and day. I'd like, I remember I had like 56 kids across both settings. Okay. Mind you, some of these kids were only in school two and a half hours, four days a week. And I was only at that school two of those days. So here I am with like let's say half my kids, 25 kids. I have a total of five hours a week that I can see 25 kids. They all have anywhere from 30 minutes, but most had at least 45 or even sometimes 90 minutes a week, which they need and deserve, but can't pull them. You know, free and reduced meals were a thing, right? So like, can't pull them from breakfast or lunch, can't pull them from specials. I'm like, so now I have a 30 minute window twice a week where I can see all the children. What? Like, it's just, it's not fe. It's not realistic, it's not feasible. And that's where I also was just like, I'm out. Like, I'm out. I'm not, you know, you guys want to do illegal things, that's fine. I'm not going to be a part of this.

Yeah. And then you do get penalized if you don't see them because the school needs that track. Yeah, Yep. I remember it all well.

And there were kids like on Medicare because we were like not a title one school, but we were like 1% above being one. It's like every year this school should have qualified so they would have gotten more resources. But they, but the, the. And I guess that's a state thing. The state kept raising it. So if it was like 79% of your kids need to be on free and reduced meals, we're going to bump it up to 80% and we're like, oh, but we're at 79%. And that qualified for this year, but not next year. And you just bumped it up last year too. Okay, got it. So like, who loses here? The children. You know, it's just, it's such. And I, that was the whole thing. I was just like, the public schools are not for me. I cannot handle the red tape, the bureaucracy, like all of this, like, I'm like, politics, no. Like that has no place in speech pathology. And like you, I was like, I want to be more of a medical slp, not an educational slp. Nothing wrong with that. But that was just where my interest lied. And it was funny too, because when I started, I was like, I want feeding cases. And they were like, we don't do that in the schools. And then three months later, somebody goes on maternity leave and they give me a classroom of children who are all like, you know, very medically complex. And half of them had feeding goals and they all had 24 hour nursing care with them. And like, I was like, oh, you don't do that in the schools. Okay, but except for this classroom. Got it like this. I was like, illegal. My bells are going off. Like there's so much wrong with this whole thing. And I was like, I don't want Any part of this, I'm just gonna expose you all.

That's another reason why I left the schools was because in the high school that I worked at, my kids weren't doing well. Like, some of them. And then I spoke to, like, a couple special ed teachers, and they're like, they need a different class classroom. And then they said, well, that's never going to happen because of funding. It affects funding. So that hurt. That was my first year. And I was like, this breaks my heart because you care so much about your funding, but there are so many of your students who are falling behind because you don't want to do what's right. Right. So I. Yeah. And then I have no control over that. I'm not the one implementing these policies. So I also watch.

Yeah.

That you're expected to basically sit there.

And keep your mouth shut and pretend like you don't know that any of this is going on. And when they started, like, putting kids, there was a director of a preschool program who actually was sitting next to the teacher while she was on this phone call, because we had to, like, the kid had graduated from speech. Thank goodness. Like, he doesn't need it anymore. Right. Well, that also means he doesn't qualify for a next year for, like, the preschool program, the free preschool program. But, like, he could move into, like, they were starting some pilot program that had a paid. It was paid for the children who, like, were typically developing and didn't need to be in the classroom. And it was free for those on an iep and they wanted, like, a mix of that to have, like, you know, developing peers. I was like, okay, cool, model, whatever. They wanted to qualify children. They were telling this teacher to qualify the child who didn't qualify just to meet. Right. The numbers they needed. And I sat next to this teacher, and I won't say her name, but I was like, give me the phone. Give me the phone. And I already knew I was on my way out. Like, I was like, I'm out of here. I'm like, I was moving. Going to infants and toddlers. So I was like, I'm not going to deal with this person anymore. And then I left a year later, like, altogether. But I was like, give me the phone. And I. I was so obnoxious. Like, I said, this woman, I was like, what you are asking her to do, I understand, like, that you. That she's a subordinate to you. But, like, this is a power play. This is illegal. You cannot ask somebody to. This puts her license on the line. I was like, I don't work for you. I work for the speech department. I was like, but this is not okay. And I understand this may be highly disrespectful that I'm speaking to you like this. I was like, but I cannot stand by in my, like, like an ethically, like, watch what you ask, like what you're basically forcing somebody to do. And like this is the kind of stuff that goes on all the time and it's so disgusting and everywhere. Yeah. And it needs to be exposed. Like, I feel like parents need to know. And so the best part of opening a private practice for me was then getting to advocate for families and be like, go to the schools and ask for this and tell them that if they don't have the staffing, that is not your problem, they need to hire somebody. And this, that and the other. And when they tell you this, you say that. And then parents started paying me to come attend the meetings for them. I'm like, I'm not an advocate. Right. But I worked in the county and I know, I know what they're going to try and pull to not give services that a child needs and deserves. And so I was like, it was so rewarding to sit on the other side of the table and to be like, like slipping the parent a paper and be like, ask about this. Like, use these buzzwords because they can't say no.

Yeah. And that's what you need to do. No one, you know, unfortunately parents. And that's parents fault, not anyone's fault. But no one tells parents, I don't know, things are done so they don't know. Even, even when I worked at the clinic, I had some parents come to me and say, well, the report didn't really match what my child was. And sometimes I had to explain because, you know, battling with insurance is a whole other thing that I don't want to get into. But I can. But I'm like, you know, sometimes we.

Have to, you know, write things a certain way. Right.

In a certain way. Sometimes we are encouraged to over exaggerate a couple things so that you get services. And that's. That bugs me too. That bugs me so much because. No, yeah. Your child doesn't. Isn't that severe, for example.

But yeah, well, it's like they still need services. It should still be covered in a lot of those cases. Right. And so it's kind of, kind of just. I always wrote that off to like, I don't, I never took insurance, but like I always wrote it off. Like when we did Write something to help a family. Like, we're basically playing the insurance game. Like, you could, like, two can play this game. Because insurance is just a whole nother. Like, we don't have to go there, but it's definitely a whole nother piece of the screwed up puzzle.

Yes. Yeah. And that's actually something that I like to say a lot now. It's like, I don't hate speech. I hate the systems in place for. For it. And that's my motto.

Yeah, no, it's so, it's so true and so beautifully said. Okay, so let's focus on more of what you're doing now. So share with us. Like, because, you know, you've, you've made this, like, shift and like, so early on in your career, which I love for you. I, like, knew early on too that I wanted. And actually I tried to launch something like a couple years into my private practice and it just was a flop. And I, like, then stopped in my tracks and like, didn't do anything else for like five years because I was just like, I don't. Let me just focus on the private practice. And then when I circled back, back in 2019 and started this podcast and, you know, watch, feed the beads in 2020 and the rest is history. It's just like, it's so funny to like, look back and be like, wow, like, I'm so glad I didn't quit for good and give up. Like, I knew I always wanted to do another thing. Which is like, it sounds very much so, like, you kind of like dabbled in your first website. You were like, oh, this is not really going to take off because there's TPT or whatever and like, you shifted. And I, I love that. I just want to commend you for that because I think that it's admirable in the sense that so many people will try, like, one thing, it won't work, and they just quit and they stop in their tracks and it's enough to stop them, like, for good. Or they'll say like, oh, yeah, when X happens, I'll do Z. Like, oh, when B happens, I'll do A. Oh, and you know, it's like, this thing has to fall into place before I go and try that again. And I feel like you're kind of like, I'm burnt out. There's gotta be something better. Like, what else can I do? So. So that's where, where you were. And at what point did you, like, walk away from, like, I know you're still trading a little bit on the side. But like, when was it that you walked away from like treating full time?

2022. Nope. I'm joking. 2023. But 2023, I was already doing part time tech and part time studies. Like I was working still for that agency. And then that, like that summer was my last summer of seeing so many kids. But yeah, I missed it. But now that I have full control and I'm in charge of it, I love it even so much more.

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? It's like when, when you have the autonomy, like in the freedom to do it the way that it's meant to be done. Yes. And not. And that's, I mean, and there's probably a conversation there too, because you've worked for a private practice and obviously we're not going to ask you who you worked for or what your experience was necessarily. But I speak with so many now business owners or people who have opened their own business because they didn't like how it felt to be an employee. And they wanted to change the system, they wanted to change the processes, they wanted to create an environment where it was fun to go to work, where people love what they do or people enjoy working with the patients, where people respect. Respect each other. You know, it's like just so many things that, you know, I felt like I had. I was working for somebody just for a year in private practice and I had full autonomy because I basically was traveling to everyone's house and there wasn't like, there was no home base. It was. Or there was no like, you know, clinic or anything. So, like, I rarely was interacting with like, other team members, but it gave me like, total freedom. And that's kind of where I was like, oh, like, yeah, this is kind of what I was doing before in infants and toddlers for a year, but now it's like I broke free of the, the system, the county and all that. And now it's like I could totally do this, like myself. Right. And. And the rest, like, like I said before, the rest is history. So. Yeah. So for you, like, did you. Did you ever have like any. I'm just curious. Did you ever like, think like, oh, I'll own my own private practice? Or did you like, want to. Did you try, like, talk to us about that?

All right. So naive me. When I was in grad school, I'm like, yep, I'm gonna have my own private practice. I'm ready. And I had a professor and I told her my goal and like, I want a private practice. And she's like, everyone wants private practice. And it was just, I was like, oh, okay. She's like, not everyone goes for it. And I'm like, oh please. Like I won't beat that number. And then my experience at the private practice was, wasn't the best. But I also love that it happened. And I think I had to do a lot of self assessment. Like I take responsibility where I went wrong and I also get to evaluate like certain things. Why, you know, asking the why, like why are certain policies in place? A lot of it doesn't always have to do with the owner. A lot of it has to do with the systems and the insurance and kind of like it's all systematic. So I, so I think in my head though during that time I'm like, I never want to open a clinic. Like that was me when I was done with speech. And then the way that I started services again was because someone reached out to me looking for a therapist and I was like, I'll find you one. It's not going to be me, but I'll find one for you. And then I couldn't because there was a wait list. And then I started doing research in the town that I live in now and I'm like, wow, there aren't many therapists in available and I couldn't handle letting like a child not go without services. And I'm like, you know what, I will take it, I'll do it. And that's how it started. So in a way it's not an office on a brick and mortar, it's home care. And I like that so much more too.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's, I think it's the natural environment. It's so nice. I really like getting to like interact with the families and I think it's like, you know, or the caregivers or whoever's there going into daycare as a preschoolers or whatever. I think it's a nice change on like the system. Right. And the typical. And it's, it kind of deviates from what insurance typically dictates needs to happen. And it's sort of like f the system. I'm like, it's basically how I live my life. But no, I think that's amazing and I love that you kind of responded to the demand and I think it sounds like you also did like some soul searching and a little bit of check in to be like, hey, I didn't think it was going to be but hey, maybe like I actually do want it to be me because there isn't anybody else. And if you were like an absolute, like, heck no, you never would have taken that patient on regardless, you know what I mean? So, like a part of your heart is still so much like in, you know, the speech therapy, assessment, treatment side that you're kind of like, all right, I'll do this. But also I always tell people, I'm like, if you feel called to do something, just like kind of roll with it and see what happens. Like, you're never, you're never committed for life. Like, you're never like, tied down. Like, you can always make a change. And I think I coach a lot of like, business owners, right? And like a lot of times I think people think that like, that tiny little decision is like a life changing, like, never ending thing you're saying yes to. And I'm like, nothing is ever. Yeah, nothing ever is that heavy. I think we just kind of make stories and like in our head and like, based on. And a lot of it's based on past experiences from when we felt a certain way, like burnt out or overworked or we worked somewhere else. And so I'm like, I love that you're kind of getting to create your own, like, reality and create new stories for yourself. And it sounds like things are going well and now you have time to work on your other business ventures. So tell us like the name of like, what you started and everything and like, where can people find it? Like, tell us all about it.

All right, so the name is the Pediatric source. And it's meant to like, bring in OTs, PTs, SLPs. I even have a couple of like, lactation consultants on, on there. And it started again because I had a hard time. I had all these cases like aac, apraxia. What else did I have? Like Torticollis. And I was like, oh, I have no idea what to do with this. And I gathered a ton, a ton of speakers. And honestly, my platform wouldn't exist if it weren't for them. Like, I'm. They're the experts. I'm just the host essentially. And they're just as passionate. They put the content together. We currently have 10 topics right now. And they just, they're so. My speakers are amazing. They're so passionate. They. I keep on saying them because it's true. And they really put so much love into this course. And they kind of like, they, you know, we still text here and there because, like, how's it going? And it's just a great platform one to begin with. And then the second reason that I created it was to help other therapists who are struggling, just like me, who want to make the transition into a medical setting from a school setting or just as a cf. Right. You want to do more medical things, but you don't feel prepared in grad school. That's another common story that all therapists share. Yeah, and so that's pretty much how the pediatric source was born. And the website is the pediatricsource.com and Instagram is also the pediatric source.

Amazing. I love that you clarified that. It's like, really geared towards the Med SLP or Med slb. Who, like, person who wants to be a Med SLP or otpt. You know, you want to work with pediatrics, but more on the medical side. So is it like a single course with like, modules and. Or is it like a host of different courses? Or like, is it all kind of one in the same.

It's a course with all the modules in one.

Oh, nice. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Love that. That's awesome. Very cool. Yeah, no, I mean, and I'm like, thinking back to. To especially when I was starting with like, pediatric patients, and then I feel like that brought more medically complex kiddos into my space and sometimes I would be like, I don't know what to do with these kids. Hold on, let me go talk to a colleague. Like, you know, like, I'm like, I know do when it comes to feeding and I know how to collaborate with other professionals to figure out, like, where to go on the feeding route. But, like, I feel like there's more and how do we figure out even, like, even who to refer to for, like, other specialized interventions? So I like that you have like the whole team kind of coming together, like slp, otpt. You mentioned lactation, so that it's, you know, I think they get like, you get a dose of like, a little bit of everything and kind of knowing like, where do we go next or who do we refer to is a great tool to have in your belt.

Which is also, you know, collaboration is key. You know, I, as an slp, I'm not going to look at the same child as an OT or pt. And so just having those different perspectives is, I think is really important to know too. Also through this platform, I myself learned that in some states that sometimes there are no speech therapists in the NICU. It's the OTs doing the feedings or there are no OTs and it's just SLPs or just PTs. So it's like, oh, that's Actually interesting, because you need to know everything then.

Yeah, right, right. And it's interesting too, because, like, when it comes to swallowing and certain things, I'm like, well, that requires the slp.

Why?

You know, someone, I remember when I learned that SLPs are actually, I feel like, less commonly in the NICU than otpt. I was like, hold up. What? Hold up. What? What are you talking. They're like, well, the nurses feed the babies. And I'm like, I'm not talking about who's, like, physically feeding the baby with a bottle. Like, I'm talking about the people who are assessing and intervening when there is a swallowing disorder dysfunction going on, like, dysphasia, like, what? What the. What? Tell me more. I'm not understanding. And still to this day, I still have not fully understanding. Like, I have 100 respect for our O colleagues, but I feel like we both need to be working together. And I feel like even like all three disciplines have very different things that we do. They may. There is some overlap. Right. But, like, we all have certain things that the other professional is not licensed or is not in their scope to do. So I'm like, why? And obviously, obviously, this all goes back to health insurance, which dictates. Which dictates everything. Because I'm pretty sure that, like, OTPT can bill codes like that are time, you know, based that are probably billed higher than an slp. And I feel like it probably started somewhere with a biller or a department that basically said, we are not making enough money in the nicu. Here's how we can make more support all these machines that are running and all these professionals and whatever. So who knows?

But it all does come down to money. Oh, a lot of places, Schools, centers. Yep. It's really unfortunate. Yes. Yeah.

Money drives everything in the United States for sure. And I can't speak to NICUs outside of the U.S. but yeah, like, what you just described is so common. And we had a lot of people coming to us being like, how do I get in the nicu? And we were like, well, educate yourself. Become so highly educated that you're such a strong candidate that they can't turn you away just because you're an SLP and not like, you know, otp. And then we can advocate for, like, you said, that collaboration between, like, hey, we really need the SLP and the OT or the SLP and the PT or whatever in the NICU together, collaborating and. And obviously, like, outside of the nicu. I think that's so key. I feel like I spent like half of this podcast for, like, two years, just talking about collaboration, collaboration, team, team, team. And it's so interesting because it's so. Still such a big issue. Like, it's gotten a little better, but mostly in private practices that are private pay or in situations that are more holistic and also private pay. And, like, do we see a theme here? And the one. They posed this question to me at the end of this live that I just did a couple hours ago, and they were like, if you had just a question like, that you could ask, and not necessarily to them or, like, just the listeners or just whoever they're like, is there a question that you would pose to, like, to the audience or whatever? And I was like, the thing that's coming into my mind right now, and I said, let me give you, like, a little backstory. And like, when I lived in Maryland and we would have the study clubs pre pandemic, like, literally at my kitchen table, and we would have one case that we all were working on, but there'd be, like an oral surgeon, a pt, an osteopath, an RDH and slp, ot. Sometimes we even had, like, a vision. Vision professional, like, there. Sometimes, like, and I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody, but I'm like, we'd have like seven, eight, nine professionals sitting around, like, an airway. Say airway dentist, ortho. I know I said release provider. Anyways, all of us sitting around the table looking at the same case. And you, like, you mentioned this before, like, we all see things through a different lens, and we all had something very critical to add to the conversations surrounding that patient case. And so my. I was like. My question is, like, it's not how do we all collapse? And I think I basically said, like, how do we. How do we do that and bring that, like, forward, like, to basically address every patient case, which is the overall question. But truly, I think the deeper question there is how do we do this? That. So it fits into today's, like, tight time frame model like, that basically also meets the demands of health insurance in America. And, you know, but. But ultimately, so that we're coming forward and bringing a patient case, the best possible care needed, right? Like, how. How do we do that? How do we collaborate? Right. So do you have the answer?

Oh, no. I wish I was thinking, like, where do I go? Where do I start? Do I start at the state level?

Oh, man, it's. Yeah, so I'm like, that's. I feel like that's my. My like, dream world, right? Like, if everything was perfect. In this world, we would be able to collaborate as a team. We'd all have lay our eyes on the same case, have a discussion around that case. Every single professional that needed to be on the team would be on the team. And it would not be challenging to get to that place where we're all collaborating. And then from there, it's like we also would have a way forward, and hopefully the most effective and efficient way forward. And honestly, it would save money. So that's probably not ideal in the eyes of health insurance model, but here we are.

Yeah. Now that's a great question. Like, I'll be thinking about that. I mean, my next goal for myself is I want to advocate for something, and I don't know what yet because there's so many things. And I just feel like the insurance world does bug me a lot, and that's why I don't take insurance. But there's so many families that have insurance and they want to use it, but I do think they're a problem. So, like, do I advocate? How do I even go about advocating for something like that? The rates for therapists are just decreasing year after year, and inflation's rising. And I was like, well, what is going on here? Why? So I don't know. That's just a future goal for myself to advocate for something. You know, I just have to find it, narrow it down.

Yeah, well, and I think that's, like, as you're saying that, I'm thinking back to what I've done so early on. I especially, like, in the pandemic, I got connected with this, like, charity, Bread for the city in D.C. where they were helping individuals who are, like, homeless and helping people who get back, you know, on their feet and get job interviews and get housing and kind of just like, really get them back on their feet. And my. My husband's, like, law firm at the time, I think was doing, like, pro bono work for them. And that's kind of how I got connected to them. And then I also had been connected for years already to Dream for Kids dc, which is now. I forget what they call themselves now, but they, like, merged with another chapter, and I think they go by a different name. Like, now. I'm gonna have to look it up. It's still Dreams 4 Kids D.C. no, it's not. That's a WIX website, and it's not redirecting me. Okay. Anyways. But it was this really, really cool organization where they had both children with different, you know, needs. And, you know, whether that sometimes was financial, but sometimes it was educational, sometimes medical, just all different needs and allowing them a place to, like, play adaptive sports and to. And the cool thing was they would have all these clinics, and they would bring in, like, some of the big sports names, like, locally, and so these really cool opportunities for these children and their families. And it was just like, this is such an amazing cause and, like, the efforts. And like, my friend from growing up, it was like the director, so I was like, hey, how do I help? Like, what can we do? You know? And so I just started taking a certain. Like, I would donate, like, 10% of my proceeds from my launches to, like, one of those, or I'd split it between the two of them. And I was donating, you know, tens of thousands of dollars, like, annually to these different organizations. And then, you know, I had a friend, hairstylist, and, like, someone I just love talking business with, whose son actually passed away from dipg. And so we had been doing that race every year before the pandemic. And, you know, we were like a. So sponsor, like, one of the smaller sponsors. And. And I just feel like when you start, like, dabbling in a little bit of that and sort of giving back and giving, like, you know, forward in different ways, whether you're, like, donating your time or you're donating money, I feel like that's such a great way to kind of figure out, like, where do I want to be? And, like, where. And it also just gives such meaning behind the work you do, because it's also like, we're not just raising money. Like, hi, I'm in business. I want to make money, and that's totally okay. But also, like, I really enjoy giving, and this gives me another channel of doing that in just another way that I couldn't do without this course or without this business, you know, so that's really cool. But then I also. Just the other day was, like, thinking about this, and I was like, I don't have it in me to create, like, a foundation, per se, but I always think of. There is the dysphagia outreach project. I haven't checked in on them in a while. I used to. Like, I've donated to them in the past, but not recently. Um, and I know, like, they were. They had a food pantry, and so, you know, people with dysphasia who needed certain products and they would work, I know, with sometimes families and things to kind of help people get access to things that maybe they couldn't get access to otherwise. And, like, if there was just Something like that for, like, team collaboration. Like, how do we get to. I don't know what the answer is. I'm like. But I just. I don't know that. That was, like, on my mind the other day. Clearly, everything in my brain is team and collaboration all the time. Yeah, but, yeah.

I mean, I see a lot of new therapists on Instagram who are doing great things. Like, I think right now, slp. I might be wrong. Business queen or something. They were just at the Made for More conference, and I was like, that's great. Because, you know, being a business owner or just a private practice owner can get lonely and having people come together with the same mindset and just to be able to share ideas, that's needed. So I was kind of. So I'm seeing more and more things that are needed in our industry be created by people who are just like, I'm tired of waiting. I'm gonna do it myself.

Yeah, well, and I'll give a little plug. So, Ebony, who is slp Bizqueen. Yes. She's like, one of the two, you know, minds behind Made for More SLP and everything. The Made for More conference. And I looked into going this year, but it just, like, wasn't aligning with my calendar and, like, taking Lily to camp and everything. And she is somebody who does do, like, you know, like, me. She also, like, mentors other private practice owners, I think. You know, I always knew her as, like, the school contracts or like, that kind of. Like, that was, like, one of her first, like, I think claims to fame was, like, teaching people how to get, like, school contracts. And I know she's got a very successful private practice that does, like, exactly that. And she thrives, you know, there. But she's got other business avenues, too. She's. She's brilliant. Like, a brilliant mind. So, yes, 100. Follow her if you're an SLP, especially if you want to know more about SLP school contracts. But I know she's got other things, too. I just am like, I don't know what they all are. So I'm sure she's got it on her Instagram. But, yeah, it's so fun to see, like, other people, like, step out in the SLP world and step into their own. Yeah. Like, Teresa Richards is also Theresa Richard, not Richards. Richard is a good friend and colleague, you know, and it's so cool to, like, see, like, what she's created. And then my friend Autumn Reed Henning, it's cool to see, like, what she's created. And so it is. It can be very lonely. But also, I think that, you know, in the past, like, there was more gatekeeping and I feel like this current generation of SLPs are, are more open. Like, yes. Like, no one's going to be like, hey, come talk to me for five hours and I'm going to give you my whole business plan for free. Like, that's not what I mean. Right. But, like, people are like, happy to connect and happy to collaborate and happy to, like, you know, help one another out. And it's like, there's got to be, like, some sense of reciprocity there. But I feel like things are shifting and I feel like, you know, SLPs generally, like, we should be good communicators. That's like what we do, right?

I think what that makes me think of is just with Instagram and social media and yeah, I do see a shift. There's less gatekeeping. I think everyone in general, because I'm also now on the corporate side of things, everyone is just tired of that mentality of gatekeeping and making other people feel like you're lower than them. They know it more. And then when you get to know them, you're like, you actually don't know much. This is all facade and so true. Just everywhere I'm seeing that. And even with just getting a job outside of therapy, I was so stuck in. I'm just a therapist. I see a client. This is all I do. This is. And if I want to, I can open up a clinic. And that's it. Now I'm like, I want to encourage others. You know, you can do so much more than that. You have a lot of transferable skills as an slp. First of all, a lot, like in the tech job that I have, like, it's easy. Like, it's easier than being a therapist for me. And even, like, starting my own business was easy. So it's just a lot of resilience is built, I guess, as a therapist. And it's exhausting. It is very exhausting.

It is taxing work. Yeah.

And like anything, like I did marketing a long time ago for a, a spa, and now that skill, now I'm doing marketing for a tech company for SLPs. And there's just so much. So if you are interested, just look at LinkedIn. Like, I'm on LinkedIn every day trying to figure out what's going on in, like, edtech for example. But yeah, there's so much. And the reason why I even realized that was because I had a friend who made the switch and then she asked me to go over a product and, like, use my slp, like, perspective on things. And then even that didn't occur to me that I could be useful for, like, products, for example, for therapists. And after, like, three months after speaking with her, I saw a job post and I'm like, wait, I can do all of these things? And then, then I started researching, like, how do I get out of therapy but still use my clinical experience and insight to help product. So we could do a lot more than we think.

That's amazing. And I love that insight because I, you know, I don't think I ever really stopped to think about, like, how transferable our skills are. So you just taught me something. Like, that's. And it's so true. I mean, when you start to think of, like, juggling a caseload, even whether you're in the schools, whether you're in a private practice, time management skills, like, behavioral management skills, you know, communicating to not just children, but adults and having to change your communication style based on who you're. I mean, just like, those skills. You know what I mean? And then there's. I'm sure there's just so many other things. Like, we have to be smart marketers. I feel like, all the time, because, hi, you're literally selling therapy. Like, you are selling your services. I don't think people realize this. And I tell people this all the time. I'm like, if you've ever worked with a parent of a child and you've had to explain to them why you're doing, like, what you're doing, you're quite literally selling them on why they should continue and why this works, right? And so I'm like, when you start to, like, shapeshift it and you apply it across, like, yeah, there's totally transferable skills. But I feel like you kind of just like. I'm like, I just want to go on LinkedIn now and, like, look at, like, you know, different. You know, I'm just curious to see. I'm like, what else? Like, what is out there? Like, what am I not thinking of? And. But I do feel like I had two other thoughts, right? So one was, as you're saying this, I'm like, everyone thinks SLPs play with toys all day. Like, you could literally go on, like, what is it, Amazon now? And you don't have to be an Amazon reseller. You can just make videos. And if you have, like, you can scan the household products you have, and if somebody sells them on Amazon, you can make a Video. And there's moms who are like, I'm making $3,000 extra a month, literally just product reviewing things that are already in my house. And I'm like, hi. I think most SLPs could probably do that really well because, like, we sell our lives to children. I feel like we're, like, constantly talking to children and getting their buy in. Like, you can talk to other people. It just like, it's just a camera. You got this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The digital world is amazing. Of all the things you can do. And we're creative, right? So I. To create TPT resources. So I was like, I can make anything. Like, I just made a planner, and I'm, like, gonna try and sell it on, like, Amazon kdp because. Because I can. And that's more of, like, a fun thing. Like, I'm not trying to make lots of money off of it. It's just because I could diversify all of these things. And again, it's interesting. At work, I have a reputation for being a perfectionist, but in, like, the SLP world, I'm like, I am, like, type B. Like, I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow. What are you talking about? Like, I'm not a perfectionist at all. But everyone's like, yep, that's Michelle's work for sure. And I was like, oh, if you only knew.

That's so funny. I always joke that I was, like, a type A personality until I had a private practice in children. And then it all changed, and then I became type B because I was like, there are not enough hours in the day to be perfect at all the things. Like, I was like, I. There was, like, this really great poem that one of the principals I had at one of the first schools that I was in where he, like, gave us a glass, like, green ball with this poem. And it was all about how, like, you can juggle different things in life, but, like, the most important things are the glass balls. And you always have to, like, keep those up in the air. And then there's the rubber balls that, like, will bounce, you know, and don't break, and it's okay to drop those once in a while. And, like, he actually said, like, work is a rubber ball. Like, you can drop it. It will still be there tomorrow. He's like, your family, like, your health. Like, those are glass balls. And I was like, to have, like, a school principal, like, give this to the entire staff. I was like, that's pretty powerful. Now, this is someone who had a child with juvenile diabetes, and so I think he had come into a space in his life where he realized how important family was and how much work will always be there tomorrow. But I, like, had such an appreciation for that because I've used that, like, that metaphor, like, throughout my life. And. Yeah, I just think it's like, it's so powerful when we think about, like, the glass balls versus, like, the rubber balls.

Yeah. And again, it's. It's very easy to think that all these rubber balls are important and they have to stay up. I think I have, like, you know, I use my husband as my accountability partner. Like, he pulls me away from work and he's like, you're done. You're done for the day.

That's so good.

And I do the same for him. We're like the same personality. Like, once we're in this mindset of, like, it's hard to get us out.

Yeah.

So you're in the zone. Yeah, we're in the zone, but we have to pull each other out. Otherwise we're like, oh, wait, we forgot to eat. Oh, no. Like, oh, it's night time. We gotta. We gotta move.

Yeah. No, and that's, I would say, like, that was one of the biggest things I had to work on too, as a business owner and parent, really. Because, like, I could just stay in my office till 7pm but, like, I have kids, you know? You know, so now it's like, I can't do that. Although when I have help here. So sometimes I will still do that because I know I have someone here helping and. But it's still not conducive to the schedule that I want. It's not conducive to, like, what I want to be doing. And so, like, that's been one of my biggest goals this year is, like, maintaining my inner peace and. And protecting the space that I've created. Because I didn't have that space, like, six months ago, a year. Well, maybe I did six months ago, but like, nine months ago, 12 months ago, I didn't have that. I was. I was definitely like, this business owner who, like, I felt like a chicken with my head cut off half the time. I always said I thrive with more on my plate, which I do. And I still do thrive with a lot on my plate. Like, if I don't have enough, like, I will just be like, oh, whatever, I'll get to it later. It's fine. And then I don't.

I don't get to it. I do the same thing.

Right. But it's like, I can have A lot on my plate and still maintain, like, a lot of open space, which allows me to eat, which allows me to work out, which allows me to spend time with my family, which allows me to have, like, silence time or just, like, unplanned time. And I don't really know what's going to go into that time every day, you know, And I'm like, that is something that felt impossible, like, even a year ago. And so it's like one of those things, like, as a business owner, that getting to a point of being able to, like, step back and create that and the fact that you're doing this, like, so early on in your, like, business career is amazing because, honestly, I feel like so many people burn out. It's like, everyone's like, oh, being a business owner is so easy. I'll just go do that. And then they work 24 7, and then they come to. To me or, you know, someone else, and they're like, help. Like, I'm basically a slave to my business, and I can't stop because this is how I make my money. What do I do? I'm like, well, I was forced.

I was forced to adapt this mentality because at my first launch, I actually ended up having the worst food poisoning of my life. I've never been that bad. And prior to the launch, like, when we were getting close, I was on, like, I was looking at my analytics, like, every hour, and my husband was like, you need to stop. And I didn't stop until food poisoning. And then after that, I'm like, you know, things were okay, even though I didn't check every single hour. And so now I keep that first experience in mind.

Yeah.

Now I'm like, it's going to be okay. I'm just going to check maybe, like, three times a day. I'm still on it, but it's not every hour. Yeah.

I'm always like, okay, universe, like, what's the lesson in that experience? What were you trying to teach. Teach me when you decided to make me so ill, I couldn't look at.

The computer on my first launch ever. Right.

So you want to know something? On my first launch, I ended up miscarrying a child. And it was the beginning of the pandemic. And I. Like, we weren't like, we didn't have, like, big plans to get pregnant or anything. And so, like, it was just sort of, like, out of left field. And I. But the world also was, like, shutting down. Like, I remember it was so. But like. So I feel like part of Me was like, okay, I'm going through something, but also, like, other people's. And I was also working with a business mentor, and he had, like, a shaman brother in law. And I feel like I was getting a lot of, like, very enlightening information about, like, what was happening in the world. And so I actually was not panicked over, like, the pandemic, which I think everybody else was, like, in panic mode now. I also worked for myself. I also felt like I had control over how much money I was making. I felt like, you know, a lot of people felt like I'm out of a job or, like, I don't get paid because I'm not working for two weeks. And the two weeks turned into three weeks and four weeks and six months and a year. And it's like, so. Like, rightly so. People were panicked. And I just remember, like, here I am going through my own thing. Nobody really knows about it, but I'm having dance parties with my kids on Facebook Live because people are freaking out, and we all just need to take a chill pill. Like, we all just need to, like, take a deep breath, and, like, we're all gonna be okay. We're all gonna get through this. We don't know what this is, so let's not freak out about it right now. You know? Remember, just, like, it was, like, such a wild experience and. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's. It's interesting, too, because I have a friend who's like, you know, she's always like, you know, call it, like, God, the universe, and people say devil. I don't know, like, whatever you want to call it, whatever it might be, you know, will try to knock you down. And as many times as that happens, it's just your job to, like, get back up and keep on going. Right. And, like, not let that bring you down. And even if nobody enrolls, even if nobody shows up, like, you know, even if it's like, you tweak and you continue forward. And I think that that's, like, the people who are successful, the ones who don't let those things, like, truly just end things for them. Because some people be like, oh, this is a sign that I shouldn't be doing this. And I'm like, no, this is a sign that I need to, like, switch up how I'm doing things, but I am still doing this. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I love that you're still doing it.

Yeah. That ties into what you said about, like, knowing when to keep going versus knowing when to stop. There was something on LinkedIn where. And I like, there was just this discussion post and I'm like, I think it was about interview questions. And I'm like, I think what's a really good interview question to ask these days is, you know, we have this new generation Gen Z. I don't know if you've like, seen all the reels about that. Gen Z versus Millennials.

Yeah.

And I'm like, first of all, I applaud the new generation for having strict boundaries. But I also feel like, you know, you gotta know when to keep going and when, when to quit. You can't just quit on the first try. And so I think the question that I asked was like, I would ask them, like, what's your criteria to keep going? Right. So I think having, like, for me, it's like a deadline. Like, even the platform that I chose, like, I was between Thinkific and Kajabi Kajabi. I was bamboozled into it. I'm just telling you right now, that was. Their marketing is top notch because I was so I was Thinkific and I had the card in hand and I like saw Kajabi AI and I was like, sold. I don't even use it. I don't even use the AI.

Neither do I. Neither do I.

But, you know. Oh, what was I saying?

Just the criteria for like, Gen Z, like when, like, when do you stop?

Yeah, but that was just an example. Like, I have a deadline. I'm like, I need to have a platform by this and I'm not turning back unless, you know, like, after a while. Like, I know I could. If I don't like Kajabi, I could switch to something else. But that's kind of how I approached my entire business of like, here's a deadline. We're gonna get to this and we're gonna keep moving and we're gonna keep moving. And then, like, you know, I'm going through this place of people need to know who I am, and I'm not going to get people signing up right now. And I. That's an emotional roller coaster in itself, like constantly prepping yourself and giving yourself the pep talk. And that's, that's a lot. Like, I have moments where I'm just like, deflated, but at the same time, I believe in it so much. So that's really what keeps me going. And I don't, I don't have a deadline yet for, like, when I'm going to stop. Like, I'm still very, very confident in this.

Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's. I want. I'M like, I know we're coming up on an hour and a few minutes and no, but I'm like, we can keep going for a few if you have a few. Because I think the whole, like, Gen Z. And I feel like I should have someone on here who's like, Gen Z. Right, because you're a millennial, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, okay. Because I'm like, I'm an elder millennial, so. It's interesting. So I just went to Copilot, Microsoft Copilot and typed in because I wanted to see. I was like, difference between Gen Z and Millennials with work. That's all I typed in. Like, that was my prompt. And it's like outlook and mindset. Gen Z tends to be more cautious and risk averse due to witnessing the instability faced by millennials. They focus on generating security through their choices, whereas millennials generally have a more optimistic, Optimistic mindset and are often entrepreneurial and inventive. And I was like, oh, okay, that, that checks.

Right?

And then with like, independence versus teamwork, Gen Z values independence, prefers figuring out themselves. Millennials place higher importance on teamwork and input from others. They thrive in open office plans and enjoy social engagement with coworkers. And I'm like, okay, these things are, you know, if you want to make some generality generalities. Right, generalizations. Tech, Tech and experience. Gen Z grew up with cell phones and the Internet, making them tech savvy and diverse. Millennials were the first generation to grow up around the Internet and mobile devices, facing economic challenges from student loans and recessions. And then it's interesting, like, comparison, I guess, with experience, activism and causes. Gen Z integrates activism and social, social justice into their daily lives. Millennials became invested in activist causes during their first free time. So it's like, you know, where I was looking for, like, ways to get involved, like, with money that I'm making. And in my free time, they're like, integrating into, like, every aspect of their life. It's fascinating. Kind of look at this and then it says education and stability. This is the last one. Gen Z is concerned about the cost of education, focuses on finding their dream job. Millennials value stability and experience pressure to attend college. Um, so I, I wonder if there's like, less of a push with, like, Gen Z to even go to college. Because I guess, like, there's so many ways to make money now that you may not need. I mean, obviously there's certain things that will always require like degrees or advanced degrees. But it's funny because I remember hearing Mark Cuban Say, I don't know, probably four years ago at this point, maybe more. I totally lost track of time, but basically saying, like, college will be obsolete in 20 years. And I think that's, you know, I have a business mentor who is in the online education space with many of his business partners or people that he mentors. And he's like, there is this massive push towards online education. We're seeing it in so many different ways. There's somebody that lives in my neighborhood, and the company that he works with provides virtual reality to nurses or like, nursing programs where you don't have to be in a hospital or a. Or a private practice anymore, or clinic or whatever. You can just be in your living room and it's like, literally like someone's handing you the patient chart even though they're not there with you, and you're literally treating the patient even though they're not there with you. And I'm like, this is wild to me. Like, so wild that that's where we're at. But I'm like, I can also see where, like, the traditional college model could be obsolete in 15 years because there is such a shift now moving into the online education space. And that's one of the reasons why I started my other business. I was like, medical professionals are burnt out, like, you're saying, right? Like, they want more. Let's channel that knowledge we have into creating online education. Let me teach you what I did, you know, like, that kind of a thing, and relate. Because so many people kept asking me to teach them, and I was like, I don't have enough time in the world to do this all one on one. But I can create something in, like, we can, you know, do this as a group. But, yeah, so I. It's. It's fascinating, but still very early in that online education space, like, you are, like, still, like, with your course, even, like, you're still on the earlier side of, like, give it five, 10 years, it will be so. What's the word? Like, where everybody's doing it. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, not infiltrated. I'm trying to think of, like, saturated, like, the market of online education. I think, like, 10 years from now will be saturated. And I've even had like, a colleague and mentor say, like, friends say.

He.

He was like, I do think there'll be a lot of regulations, like government regulations over content and courses on the Internet and stuff. And so now that's where like, we're even looking at maybe going through, like, the credentialing stuff for some of our certifications. Cause I'm just like, oh, man.

Yeah, it's going to be a lot. I used to follow and I have looked into this, but the virtual reality world, I mean, I think people were like, buying real estate there and like, they were trying to make classrooms and programs in there. And granted, I'm assuming that that means everyone's gonna need a headset at some point. And that's. I've. I've stopped watching and like, following it, but it's a lot. And I personally haven't, like, have a hard time grasping, like, seeing this and being successful. But I'm sure that if you grow up in will work and it'll make sense for me. I'm like, I'm just so in person. Like, I'm hands on. Yeah.

But you know what, what's interesting too, that you say that there is definitely. Because with all of this AI stuff, there's still such a desire and this. I don't think this is just like millennial and older. I think this is across, like, ages and, you know, different groups. There's still this desire for human interaction and for interacting with a human, the actual human. Like, yeah, I'm not just talking when you call in and you get an automated thing on, like, you know, a helpline or something. I'm talking like, when it comes to therapy services, when it comes to customer service in a business, like, people are like, it's a surreal human. I want to talk to a real human. Right. And. And then obviously, like, with friends and relationships, because humans thrive on that. And I'm like, AI will never. I don't think AI can ever fully replace that. Like, sure, maybe like a helpful Q and A or chat bot at the bottom of a website. Fine, great. But beyond that, I have questions. I want to talk to a human. Like, the AI can only do so much, you know, so there are some companies that I've seen do it, like, really, really well. And I think, like, they're onto something because I'm like, there are other companies where I literally haven't bought their products because you can't get past a chatbot. And I'm like, I don't have enough information to invest this amount of money with you, but this person over here is willing to talk to me. So that already gives them like one up, you know, and we've moved. We've moved onward and I forgot about you over here, so.

Yeah, yeah, that just. I mean, I'm just. My husband and I talk about, like, businesses all the time. And we're like, okay, in a couple years, we need something AI proof. So our minds are like already thinking like, what's always going to be needed that AI could never replace and like, how do we beat the system? How do we beat the race? So just, I'm sure you, you think about this too.

Yeah, yeah, it's that and it's like the marriage of like, you know, because all the time, constantly, like to my team now, I'm like, guys, look at this tool. I don't know how to use it, but it seems cool. And then like, we forget about it and move on. Like, that's literally like, if Taylor hears this, she's gonna laugh because she's gonna be like, hallie's literally forwarding us something probably on a weekly basis that she sees on Instagram or that pops up in an ad or whatever. And I'm like, like, this kind of sounds like something that could be helpful for us. And then we might take like a peek at it and be like, yeah, no, you know, and so it's like we've integrated certain automations, right? And certain things and like, like zapier and like, you know, like back end business process type of stuff. But that's like, to help the team and help like workflow and like those kind of processes. It's not the front end customer service stuff. So I feel like if you have a business that requires like customer service or even if you're the person who's providing the human component, whereas like 9 out of 10 others are not, I do think that you will always be successful to a certain degree because there are always going to be a group of people, a large group of people who still prefer that human over the computer.

We don't need to answer this question, but my mind went to like future generations who grew up with not having the human component. Like, I'm just like, how would they feel? It doesn't need an answer. But I'm just thinking, yeah, you know, we're used to that. What happens if people grew up without it? That might be odd to them, right?

Who knows? Right.

This person's talking to me, right?

That could be. That could be like 20 years away. Who knows?

Yeah, not in my time. So I'm kind of glad.

Exactly. I'm like, I'm good, I'm good. I'll be good by then. My kids will have to deal with that. Amazing. Well, this has been amazing. Michelle, thank you so much for your time. Tell us again where they can find you and your course platform and your Instagram all the things.

So thank you for having me. This is so great. And you can find me at the Pediatric Source on instagram and also thepediatricsource.com Amazing.

Thank you again and I'm excited for everybody to check out your course. I appreciate you and love this little like businessy conversation that went like 10 different directions. Because this is so how my brain works.

Yeah. And I like it. I love it. It's how my brain works too.

Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you found value in this episode and want to hear more of these Myotots, Airway and Feeding related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode on your social media platforms. You can access free resources at all I offer@halkin.com or pop over to Holly Balkan on Instagram to get all the latest updates.