Episode 305: Gut and Growth with Nadine Lopo, M.S. CCC-SLP

Hi and welcome to episode 305 of the Untethered Podcast. Today we have Nadine Lopo joining us. Nadine received her Master's Degree in Clinical Speech Pathology from Northern Arizona University and her Bachelor's in Speech and Hearing Science from Arizona State University. Nadine is a speech language pathologist and a feeding therapist. She's licensed to practice in Maryland, D.C. florida and California and she's a member of the American Speech Language Hearing Association. Nadine is trained in Feed the Peeds, the MYO Method, talk tools, Taught Stones, approach prompts, sos, Feeding Therapy, Sophie, aeiou, AAC and more. Nadine specializes in the pediatric feeding disorders and AAC augmentative and alternative communication. She's experienced working in a variety of settings, including private practice, schools and in home. Nadine is passionate about her career and loves forming lasting connections with the families that she works with. Quick Disclaimer. All information, content and material of this podcast are the opinions of the speakers and is for the informational purpose only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis and or medical treatment of a qualified health care provider. Welcome to the Untethered Podcast. I am your host, Holly Balkan. I'm a certified myofunctional therapist, feeding specialist, podcaster, business owner and mentor. This podcast is all about getting your questions answered and collaborating with colleagues to bring you the most up to date information in the orofacial myofunctional therapy, airway, tetradural tissue and pediatric feeding therapy space. If you're new here, I challenge you to keep an open mind and join my mission to spread this message far and wide. If you've been around since June 2019, thanks for being a loyal listener. As we jump into today's episode, remember to listen with correctoral rest posture, tongue up, lips closed, teeth apart, breathe through your nose. Let's get started. Hey Nadine.

Hi.

Welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to have you here because, well one, I feel like we work together in all of my businesses. Right. Like you are the lead therapist, I feel like in the private practice and you're a mentor in the online business and the feeding certification and so I am just excited to dive in today.

Thanks. Me too. A little nervous, but thank you.

Oh my goodness. I love that and I actually like that you said that because I think there are so many people who come on this podcast who are very nervous, who are not people who normally mentor. Maybe they're not people who have recorded courses or educate, you know, and so I think it's Good for people to see that sometimes, like, even those of us who do these things still get a little nervous, like, let me do something new for sure. But this is gonna be awesome. This is gonna be awesome.

Yes.

So, all right, before we, like, get to the nitty gritty, like certification, all that stuff, I would love for you to share with our listeners a bit about your background, because they don't know you like I do. And, you know, I know you took feed the peds and you were a clinic. You know, you were basically managing like 10, nine or 10 therapists, I think, out in California at the clinic you worked at there before you moved east and came to work with. With our team. So, yeah, I'll let you tell your story, but I would love for people just to understand a bit about your background.

Sure. I actually went to school in Arizona because I grew up there. And right after college with my undergrad, I was able to work in the schools there because at that time, just like 2002, they allowed speech like technicians, they were called, not assistants, where I worked under someone. So I was in the schools right away while I was going back for my master's. That way I was able to work in the field and get really hands on right away, which was nice, but I didn't have feeding. It was just all like, you're working with your typical speech and language kiddos. And I had, like, the easiest ones because I was like, young and new. And then I went to ASU night classes for some courses that transferred up to NAU and got my master's. And from there I started working in home. And when I was doing in home early intervention, I would get random feeding kids. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, because you don't learn in, like, in school. They gave us one one day during our dysfunction course of pediatric feeding. The rest was all adults. So it's like, so it interested me. But at the time, I really wanted to do autism, so, like, work with a lot of kids with autism. So I kind of was specializing in that. Then I ended up in schools here and there, all over Arizona. And then I took travel positions. And when I traveled, I was still very much autism centric. And then I got burnout and I started diving more and more into feeding. I was like. Because I was getting random kids, especially with autism, with picky eating, and I was like, oh, this is so interesting. So I started taking, like, talk tools courses. There's some courses that through chow, I think it was called that aren't even available anymore. And I was just taking as many feeding courses as possible. I took over the years. I took sos, I took. Then I took feed the peds during COVID and I was like, oh my gosh, Hallie, she's so amazing. And I took Melanie PODOC courses, just so many. I just kept expanding my knowledge and wanting to be more feeding focused. And I worked in the Bay Area for four years and I was very feeding focused there in a private clinic. And then I moved down to San Diego where that's when I. Or Carlsbad, Oceanside area. And that's where I was a department. I moved into department managing. And we were kind of throwing all of the SLPs into oral motor and feeding and explaining that. So I was doing a lot of education. A lot of our therapists were new right out of school, and they just wanted to know how working on oral motor, oral placement activities and feeding relate to everything. And so I did a lot of mentoring. And then I saw you were hiring and I DM'd you. And I was like, would you ever be interested in someone that needs to move across the country? Give me a few months. You were like, yeah, let's talk over the phone. And I think we talked for like an hour, hour and a half on the phone. And we're like, yeah, this is like, good. And then I was like, I'm like, I'll think about it. And I think I only took like a week maybe. And I was like, yes, I'll do it. So, yes. And then I ended up here. Now.

Now you're here.

Yay, Annapolis. And it was all meant to be. I love it.

I love it. And everything in life is just on the up and up. I love it.

Yes.

Well, I obviously really love having you as kind of a lead therapist in our practice too, because I know you've done some mentoring for a CF on our team and we've now had you as one of our prime mentors, one of our top mentors, you know, in the online business now for pediatric feeding therapists. Inside of this certified pediatric feeding therapist certification. I was like, let me get this right.

Cpft.

So I feel like you're. I mean, I may have created it, but I feel like you're in the day to day of it now. So tell us, tell us, Nadine, like, how has that been for you? Or what's, you know, what are you, what's your experience been like inside of that mental mentoring a group of students?

It's been great so far. It's definitely a learning experience. I think for all of us, because this is like the first of its kind. So I feel like every week there's a new, like, hump or like, hurdle we had to get over. Like, oh, we didn't think of this and now we're thinking of it. But it's interesting to see a whole group at once, the different personalities there are and the different skill sets that they already have. And in my group, I have five and just like, figuring them out as we go along of like, where their strengths and weaknesses are and how to mentor them individually. But also as a group, it's been really eye opening to me and challenging in a good way because it keeps me, like, thinking and going because to me it comes so naturally now. So, like, when people ask me a question like, oh, I have to think about how I actually do that or approach that because I don't think about it anymore every once. I mean, obviously there's a case here and there that I'm like, oh, that like, throws a curveball at me. But yeah, I, like, that's been the best part of it. And it's great that, like, I feel like I'm building somewhat of friendships with the group too, where they feel comfortable telling me, you know, getting over things in their own life that help, like, challenges that are helping them realize, like, this is the path they want to take too. So, yeah, very cool.

I love that. I know. And I think it's really cool too, because anytime I've gone through a program where, like, I'm mentoring, you know, like, more, I'm thinking business for me, because I haven't really done this high level of mentorship for like a certification in the, in the pediatric feeding space or the MYO space necessarily we offer them, but I'm not the one who's been in there. You know, it is really cool to connect with individuals because you, you connect on such a higher level and you really get to know them and you really get to kind of also understand, like, where they're coming from and what their goals are. And like, it's very cool to help people in that transformation kind of from like, where they are when they enter to where they want to be towards the end. And that whole, like, journey along the way is like, it's just. I don't know. For me, it's very rewarding to be a part of that. And I'm always very honored that someone got, you know, chose me to help them basically along this path. And it's, you know, I think it's also just Doubly rewarding because it's like at the end of the day they can go help their patients, which I know, like, for me, I was just doing this training on basically how to create an online business and I was talking about like one of my big, like my big mission and vision in the beginning was, you know, there's so many kids sitting on pediatric feeding therapy wait list, and these kids don't have the time to be sitting on a wait list. Like, that's not, you know, but what do we do? There's not enough therapists, there's not enough time in the day. And so my goal in the beginning was like, if we can just create more feeding therapists, if we can teach more SLPs and OTs, they feel confident and confident and get out there and like assess and treat and even just assess. Maybe they don't want to treat, but they at least know how to assess. Like, I just feel like we can move some of these kids forward so much faster and they would not have to be on wait lists. And so I'm like, that driving force for me was like such motivation to just get up and go every day. And you know, it's really very cool to see how many people have gone through Feed the Peeds and then now to see people continuing their journey in cpft. Like, because I just feel like, okay, these people, I don't know if they realize it now, but like, they may be the next set of people who can go on to mentor other people too. Right? I know that's not like the goal of anybody really, when they're coming in, they're kind of like, no, I just want to really hone my skill set. And I, I want to be certified because I want to be providing the best care to my patients and I want to just up level my knowledge and all these amazing things. And I'm like, I don't think they realize that like at the end of the day they're going to have such a ability now to help other therapists even like do what they're doing. So I don't know. I was thinking about that the other day. Cause I'm like, that wasn't even my goal in the beginning. But I'm like, that could be a really cool thing that comes out of this for sure.

And that's one of the things already too that I'm realizing. Like, as they go along, they'll relate back to some of the courses they've taken through cpft and even the courses I've developed and they're like, oh, I took this from this course. You did? And I didn't even think about that. And now it worked. And I was like, wait, I taught someone. Someone something. I'm like, no way. Like, it, like, blows my mind because I never, like, mentoring. I think I've told you this before. Like, mentoring comes very easy to me. Like, just talking through things. If you come to me with, like, this is what I'm seeing. This is what I think I should be doing. What do you think? Instead of, like, here's this kid. I don't know what to do at all. Like, come to me with ideas and tell me what you're seeing. I've always been confident and able to, like, talk through it with therapists. But then, like, the actual teaching part of things, I'm like, I don't know if I'm. You kept telling me, you're fine. You've got this. I'm like, I don't know. And now, like, I'm seeing it happen. Like, people are like, yeah, several of the therapists are telling me that already. Like, I. Like, it just blew my mind. And, like, it just made me realize, like, I didn't even think about this or that. And I was like, oh, wow, this is working. But, yeah, and it's the respect. You're right. You feel, like, proud and the respect and, like, like, honored. Because I've never had this feeling before. I've always been, like, pushing, pushing, pushing to get noticed and, like, to get the respect I deserve of, like, all of the knowledge I do have. And, like, they're looking up to me that I'm like, this God of some sort. And, like, no, no, no. Like, take me down.

Because I tell. I say this all the time. I'm like, I'm no different than you. Like, I just chose. I made different choices that allowed me to get to where I am today. And, like, you can make those same or similar choices that help you get to where I am kind of thing, you know? And so I think that's, like, the biggest difference. People are like, how are you so successful? I'm like, I made a decision and I stuck by it. And I really just. I decided I was going to see it through, you know? And so it's the same thing, like, with your level, when you decided you wanted to, it sounded like when you were like, I'm going to be a feeding therapist, and I'm going to gain all the knowledge I can. You just took, like, course after course after course, which is similar to, like, what I did. I was like, I'm just going to soak it all in and then get out there and try to use this information with patience and see what happens, and then continue to soak in more information and get some mentorship if I can. And, you know, and I just. I think at the end of the day, it's a daunting process. It takes time, it takes money. Right. And it's not something that happens overnight. And a lot of people are impatient, and we get a lot of people coming to us just going, tell us just what to do. What are the exercises I should do?

And I'm like, that's not how it works.

Like, sorry, guys, but listen, there are exercises. We will show you things we can do. However, before you implement any of that, you have to understand, like, a whole host of other things, and you still got to start getting your hands on faces and working with the patients and yada, yada, yada. So anyways, I feel like we've made some instrumental, you know, moves in the right direction when it comes to that, but, yeah, and I mean, I just. Mentorship is just something that I think is also so lacking in our profession or hard to find. So, anyhow, that's my thought on that. Okay, so let's talk about your courses that you created for the cpft. Because you already said, like, that the students are coming back and saying, you know, and I don't really want to call them students. They should call them, like, certification candidates, because they're like, there we go.

Yeah.

Therapists, right?

Yeah.

Like, I don't want to call them students. I mean, they're learning, but they're not students. Yeah. The therapist.

Right.

They have said, like, hey, we. You know, you talked about this in your course, and now it makes sense. Or I tried this and did that, and you're like, whoa. So I know it's not easy to create a course. Hi. I've done it. Right. It takes a lot of time and energy and patience and blood and sweat and tears and all the grit in the world. But at the end of the day, it's something to be really proud of, because you did three courses for us.

4. 4. 4.

Wait, there were four?

Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my goodness.

Okay. Yeah.

So flexible feeding framework.

Yes.

The GUT course.

G tube.

G tube.

And vision.

Oh. And visual impairments.

That's right. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Holy moly, Nadine.

Well, yeah, I know.

Amazing. Okay, so let's talk about these courses that you created. So let's talk about the. Feed the Flexible framework for feeding. First, can you just like explain to everybody, just very briefly, like, what, like that course is, like, what was the idea behind that course?

Sure. I've realized over the years that many, like when people get thrown into feeding, I'm one of them. You start with, you think in your head, you have to start with food play. Like, there's like kind of this hierarchy you have to do. You have to start here. And I've seen like, you have like different clients where they're stuck for like a year or so just playing with food. They're not getting anywhere. Yes, food play is very important. Not downplaying that at all. But you might have a different cognitive child or something going on with the gut. All or other things you have to think about first. You have to think about the whole child. So trying to come up with a course that, like, how can we talk about it being flexible without saying these are your steps? So I use like four legs of a table. So like, once you have those four legs, you can stand, like, put the table on its side like upright and like, it'll be sturdy and we're good to go. Now sometimes you can screw in that one leg and make it all nice and tight, even if you don't work on it. Because food play, I mean, in one of my courses, I have a kid that's just super impulsive, would just toss everything. Like, why work on food play if that's just going to be the whole thing that's happening? So, like talking as a group and collaborative team that we don't need to work on that to get to what our main goal is. So we can just screw that leg in and be like, okay, we're good there. Um, so it's trying to help the people taking the course. The therapist, like, understand how to approach kids in a different way, to assess them and to treat them.

Love it, Love it. I know. And that was one of the courses I was like, super excited for because I think so many people come to us and they're like I said, like, not only do they ask, just like, just tell me what to do and tell me the exercises. But like you said, they, they're looking for like a hierarchy. And I know there are some courses out there that give like, step one, step two, step three. And I will tell you honestly, anytime I've tried to implement that, it doesn't really work for every child. And frankly, it doesn't work for most of the kids that I've ever tried to implement that with, because it's just too rigid. And that's not how humans operate.

Right.

And so I love that. Like, I remember like, you were kind of talking about what this would be about and you just explained it, but I was like, yes, this is what we need. We need like a framework, but also like to give permission to adapt right to the child in front of you and their needs. So beautiful.

Love that. Exactly.

Okay, my next favorite topic is the gut. And I know you have like the course on the gut and how it affects feeding. So just kind of tell us a little bit about like what you dive into in that course.

That course was an idea. A light bulb went off for that course when I. She's actually in the course. It's a little girl I worked with years ago in the Bay Area. She came in and I was assessing her and her stomach was descending as she was eating all of her foods. I was like, huh, this is interesting. There's obviously something happening in the gut. So long story, but you'll see she actually is. Has celiac and was, after I moved, finally diagnosed by. And everything she craved was carbs. It was all carbs. It affected behavior, affected everything. So it made me think like this would be a great course to have therapists understand that even though there's doctors that are like, everything's fine, like the blood work work, like looks fine, that sometimes scopes are necessary, sometimes biopsies are necessary if we're seeing certain things. And there's different types of allergies. There's also like severe things where there's eoe, the FP F pies, things like that. So I kind of dive into all of like the non traditional allergic reactions from the gut versus like traditional things you would see from food allergies and things like that as well. But like things to look at. And also I have some examples of kids and like videos and like what I was seeing that made us realize like, this is the treatment plan we have to follow.

Yeah, I love that. Especially because my. My youngest Mia, she was that kid where her. She would literally eat a meal and her gut would distend like while eating. And. And this is a kid who doesn't have like, like, you know, she wasn't getting feeding therapy. She doesn't have a chewing or swallowing problem. And I was just like looking at her gut and I'm like looking at her face and she was swollen and she was constantly getting sick and it was just like. But every time she would eat it was like her belly would be distended and then she Would go to sleep, and she'd wake up the next morning, her belly was down again. And then she would start to eat throughout the day, and it would constantly get more and more distended, and she was gassy and uncomfortable and cranky and, you know, all the things. And I just. At one point, because I was like, nobody could really figure it out. And I even took her to functional medicine this past summer, and they said to me, they were like, well, we don't want to do blood work on her. She's so young. And I'm like, why are we here? I do want labs. I want to help her. Right. And so I had already cut out gluten. I cut out gluten for her because I've been gluten free for, like, six, seven years now, but cut it out for her. August of 2023, and immediately, within a week of cutting out gluten, all the symptoms went away, and she started to almost thin out before our eyes.

She was.

Not that I'm not calling her fat, but she was swollen. She, like, her whole body was swollen. Like, it was having this reaction to, like, what she was eating. And so it's. It's fascinating to me. And I've. I've, like, gone down this whole rabbit hole of, like, the gut brain connection and all those things, but I. I don't think it's discussed very much, if ever, in the pediatric feeding space.

Yeah, And I even talked to you about my gut issues, too. But, like, I realized I was sensitive to gluten. After a beer vest and eating a big bowl of pasta, I was like, I couldn't fit into any of my clothes. The next day, I was like, what just happened? It's like I gained 10 pounds. And then, like, so I eat gluten here and there, usually not at all during the week, and then on the weekends, I'll have a little. But if I eat more than that, like, I can't button my pants. Like, I literally swell up. So it's not, like getting, like you were saying, swelling. It's like something in your body. And I'm pretty sure my niece has the same thing. But I have to. You know how family is difficult to work with, so I'm working on that one.

Well, and it's tricky. It's so tricky with kids because it's like, if they're. No. Not overtly having other issues, I feel like a lot of this just gets missed and to no fault of anyone's. Like, no fault of the parent necessarily, because they don't really know anything's going on. It's just sort of like, oh, like, the kid seems fine. They keep eating these things. They're not vomiting. They don't have hives. Like, you know, but it's. I just looked at her, and I was like, something is off. Like, I don't get it. Like, for you to look so different in the morning when you wake up than when you go to bed at night, I was like, something weird is happening. And so, yeah, I'm like, mother. Mother intuition, I guess, maternal intuition. I was just like, we're just gonna cut out gluten and see what happens.

Yeah.

And now we're working on healing her gut and everything. And hope. Like, I'm hoping that we can add it back in, because I've been taking Lily. Total sidebar, but been taking Lily for this, Nate, this allergy elimination technique program. And we've already. And basically, what I'm learning is, like, allergies are your body's way, you know, basically immune system's way of saying, this is not safe, and having an outward reaction to tell you, like, to avoid that thing. And so what I'm learning is that, like, if we can present the. The item in a safe way and teach the body that it is safe and that's okay to be around this thing, to even ingest this thing, whatever it might be, you know, then. Yeah, I don't know. So, like, Lily's milk protein allergy, gone. Her cat and dog dander allergy, gone. She was, like, having cold uticaria, where she literally, like, would go in cold water. Her whole body would break out in hives.

Like, that's me.

Yeah. She would go. Her arm would hit the. The cold counter. She'd raise her arm up in the part. The contact, like, the area that contacted. She'd have hives on it. And that one was really tricky. That one took a while to break. But just this week, she's like, oh, I washed my hands twice in the cold water at. And I didn't get hives. And I put my arm down on my desk, and I didn't get hives. And I went in the pool, and I didn't get hives. And we're like. And it was freezing yesterday while she's telling me all of this, like, I mean, freezing for south Florida. So, you know, like, it was, like. It was, like, in the 40s in the morning. Okay. It was actually cold at the time of the appointment. This was a Tuesday. No, this was yesterday at the time of the appointment.

No, it was.

Yeah, it was. I don't know what day it is anymore. Anyways. Yeah, at the time of the appointment, I think it was, like, 65 degrees outside. So I'll give you, like, it's not cold for all of you northerners, but it was cold in the morning, like, to the point where they had fans on and everything, which is unusual down here, and. Yeah. And, like, all of a sudden, we're like, wow, that seems to be healed as well. And so I looked at her, and I was like, can you help Mia with her gluten stuff? Because she's actually healed my mast cell activation issue that I was having. Like, I'm eating again, and spicy foods, and. Yeah, it's. It's insane because I, you know, was told this was a diagnosis for life, and I was like, I don't accept that.

Right.

No, no. So, anyway, so now stay tuned. I'll come back and let everybody know how it's going. But we just had Mia's first appointment on Monday. Just more of, like, an assessment and, like, getting going. But I'm looking to see because I never had the official blood work done for her, so I can't say one way or the other, but I'm looking to see if she's reactive to these specific, you know, foods and things or what. What's coming up for her.

Yeah, it'll be interesting. I didn't know Lily had cold uticaria, because I do, so. And I was told years ago because it came up in my mid-20s after a very stressful time in my life. And I feel like that's when I became lactose intolerant, sensitive to gluten, sensitive red meat, all of this stuff. I feel like stress just destroyed my body. But the cold started then, and the doctor at this time was like, well, you can kind of, like, desensitize yourself. Like, how? And he's like, start with one hand in the water, and then the second, and eventually you, like, submerge your whole body. And he. But right before that, he said, if you fall into a cold pool of water, your body could go into shock and you could die. It's like, well, I'm not gonna try this, then.

Like, that's really encouraging. Thank you so much.

Yes. But he at least made it sound like there wasn't. Like, there could be a way to cure it very easily if I wanted to, but I'm like, I don't think I want to try that. So I just, like, dress appropriately and I deal with it, and I don't like, it's not as severe because, like, if it's cold, like, if I hold a cold glass for a long time, I get little hives. But anyhow, we could talk about that another time.

Yeah, no, I mean, but I think it's really interesting because I think it all ties in, and I think it speaks to a lot of, like, looking at our patients, even, like, what else is going on and what other symptoms are presenting that might be, like, a clue to, like, the root cause of, like, you know, whatever may. May be happening with them. Because I just don't think, you know, like, putting my children aside, putting myself aside. Putting your things. And it's like, the patients, like, I just. I feel like everyone kind of looks at what's very overt and obvious, like they're not eating or they're really picky or they've cut all these out, or they're vomiting or they're on a D tube, and we want to wean them. And like, I'm not saying that those aren't things we need to pay attention to and directly address, but it's sort of like, well, how did we get here in the first place and what else is going on? Because if we don't address the root cause of these issues, we're not going to have success in therapy. Exactly.

Right?

I mean.

Yeah.

So.

Exactly. Yeah.

So I love. I just love that you. You go there with the gut course. So important. Okay. And then I mentioned G tube, so let's talk about that one next. So adjusting a feeding therapy approach for G tube feeding and weaning. Because I feel like everyone under the sun when they come and take feed, the pets are like, are we gonna learn about weaning off of G tubes? And I'm like, well, we talk about G tubes, but this is not like a G tube weaning course. So talking. Tell us what you put in this course.

Exactly. This is also not a specific G tube weaning course, because not everybody's goal is to wean off that G2. It might be working with a kid that just will always be on the G2, but we're still working on, like, tasting foods, eating tiny bit, maybe one meal per day. Yeah. There might be a kid that, like, in my. In this course, you'll see there's one kid, eventually we want him off the G2. Once he's through all of his medical stuff, he's going through another kid that, like a couple that are just on G2, probably for life and for different reasons, but we're working on. There's still a way to work on feeding therapy. Just because that they're on a G tube for light or, like, long term doesn't mean that we can't do feeding therapy as well. Oral, motor, oral placement, feeding therapy, all of that. And it was really interesting when I was researching for this course that caregiver stress actually went down when a G tube was put in because the stress of mealtime and trying to get the proper nutrition in their child was lifted, combined with all of the other things going on with their child. Because a lot of times it's like, so many medically based things happening. So it just gives a different approach to looking at the G tube, understanding what the different G tubes are and why they're placed and how caregivers feel and how you have to collaborate in order to even to wean. You can't just wean them off. You really have to think of all the nutritional, like, third nutrition every day, like, is in that now. There's a lot of blended food diets, too, which is great, because when I first started working with kids with G tube, that wasn't even allowed. Like, I don't even think they were approved by doctors. So families were, like, blending their own food on the side, like, trying not to get in trouble. I think Marcia Dunn Klein was someone that first started some of the blended stuff too, and, like, talking to families about it, because I had a family back in the day working, like, alongside with her. So it's just interesting to, like, research all that and talk about it. And like I said, in the course, you'll see, like, a variety of different kids I've worked with. And that's why, like, being flexible also in our feeding therapy approach is so important.

So name of the game.

Flexibility. I love it. Yes.

Love it. Okay, awesome. Thank you. Because I know everyone's gonna be like, what's in that G2 course? There you have it. Okay. And then the feeding therapy with the children who have visual impairments, which I feel like is a specialty of yours. And I know you have, like, a kiddo who you worked out, worked with out in California who is, like, very near and dear to you. So I feel like I got to be a little part of that journey, too, just by, like, seeing his case and, you know, from you, from your perspective. So tell us about that course.

Exactly. It's so interesting that this is, like, a specialty area. I just happen to get the kids with vision impairments. So it's like, how does this happen? So like you said, I have one kid in there that we're not sure of, like, his exact visual impairment, but it's, like, from here down in, like, very limited visual space, but has so many other things going on. So, like, working with him and visual impairments, this is where the flexibility comes in. When they're blind, it's different because we want them to feel things, right? They want to. We want them to understand the texture and the feeling that they're putting into their mouth. A kid that either has CVI or like other visual impairments tend to be more impulsive. And so the food play is kind of gone because, like, if you see something coming at you or it's like, in front of you and like, if all of a sudden in your visual space, these kids tend to, like, throw it away. So you have to, like, really think about that and how we're going to get them to eat safely and also increase their food repertoire and, like, the different textures if there's someone that needs to feed them. So you'll see in this course, I have a little girl, you'll see, who's blind, who has come a long way and actually feeds herself. And we're trying to, like, set up her plate a certain way all the time so she knows where her foods are to, like, get them in her mouth herself and, like, where she put her fork down every time. And then a kid that is, like, has so many other things going on where we have to learn how to feed him and which angle to go on where he's not swatting away at us and, like, swatting the food away. But he's also G tube as well, so you'll see him in several courses. And then, like, I have another kid who has CVI and other things going on. So you have to think about, like, what kind of plate wear to use, what kind of background, like, lesson the distractions. It just makes you think differently for these kids because you can't do your typical step by step. You have to be really flexible. Word of the day.

Yeah, word of the day. Word of the year. I love it. Flexibility is the key. Awesome. Well, thank you for explaining those courses because I think it just helps for people. I mean, obviously in this, not obviously, but in the certification, I think we have like 18, maybe 19 courses now. And I know, like, you're four of them, so here's your four. You're a nice little chunk. And I have to say, I really love, like, whenever I'm talking about the certification, I usually tell people about the framework. And then I You know, I think. And I really love the gut.

So I know you, of course, you're.

Like, I know, Halle. We all know how holistic, organic, and gut focused you are. Yes. No. So I absolutely love it. So just a big thank you because I think it's, you know, it's, it's exciting for me to showcase your expertise because I know you have this level of expertise. And, you know, not to say that only the patients you work with get to see it, but I think it's cool that you actually are in the day to day working with the patients. They get to benefit from it. But so do these therapists that are going through certification or really anybody who buys the course, because anybody can enroll in the course. So. So yeah. So just a big thank you to you for stepping out and putting your neck out there and taking the chance on yourself and, you know, being an educator in the online space.

You're welcome. And thank you for pushing me. I think I've said that to you before. Like, I would have never done this if you didn't be like, you could do it over and over again. Right. But I put, I pushed back hard. I was like, I don't know.

You're like, I don't know. I don't know. I was like, well, I mean.

Okay. But thank you. I'm very proud of myself. It took a lot of many hours and a lot of work. Yes.

Labor of love, as we like to call it.

For sure.

All right, well, thank you. Nadine, is there anything else you want to add or maybe share with everyone where they can find you if you're on like, you know, Instagram or anything?

I am on Instagram. I need to try more about posting about work and stuff. It's just random stories here and there about my life, but it's a deanval. So I'm on Instagram. I go on Facebook, but it's usually sharing from Instagram to Facebook and that's it. I am going to take a lot of lactation courses and hopefully have my CLC to combine with all of this soon. Although I'm planning a wedding too. So, you know, thank you. But all this within six months? Yeah, I could do it, right? Totally fine. But yeah, so that's where you can find me. And yeah, sign up for the cpft. I'll continue to mentor.

Yay.

Yay.

Well, we're excited to have you. I know we have you. We have the next round of certification. We actually just started emailing our wait list about it so that we can start having conversations with people. We won't actually start it until I want to say it's mid April or so mid to late April, the next cohort. But we only run one per year, so if anybody's interested, just email supporteedthepedes.com and we'll help you get started.

Yay. Thanks for having me on. Hallie.

Thanks for joining me.

Nadine that's fine. Happy Friday.

Happy Friday. Thanks for listening to this podcast. If you found value in this episode and want to hear more of these Myotots, Airway and Feeding Responsibility related episodes, be sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and share this episode on your social media platforms. You can access free resources and all I offer at halibalkin. Com or pop over to at hollybulkin on Instagram to get all the latest updates.