Secrets To Scaling Revealed By His Billionaire Mentor | Andrew Abernathy

Like, a lot of buddies of mine have built really big hundred million dollar businesses. The problem is they build the company around themselves and then they can't get away from it. They can't back out of it. It's impossible. It's hard. So all the companies that we have, I've built around somebody else. The goals I set for these guys are. That's crazy. Like, hey, Nate, can you build us 100 facilities by 2034?

That's insane. So you made your first million by 17. So you said in the beginning of our podcast here, you bet on a good company, but you didn't make a right bet on the people. And Gary Vee, I watched his podcast a couple of days ago on the Cody Sanchez show and he said the same thing, like, I made a bad bet. Good horse, bad jockey.

Yep. It's really about people. And that's where I basically now just meet people and build businesses around them, because those are the hardest things to find. And you can find it. I mean, if you go to a dinner with a bunch of business people and the conversation gets quiet, you can tell the conversation they want to have about what. So if you accompany passion with a good person as morals, that's driven and already financially successful, already like it's magic, and they just build a business around.

Them, how have you been able to identify and secure talented people like the best A players in the game? And how do you structure incentives to actually keep them aboard and keep them happy and keep them operating in their realm of genius? Today I'm here with Andrew Abernathy, who is the chairman and founder of Abernathy holdings, which is a company that, I mean, you started investing at 13 years old, I read, with $4,000, which I can't wait to dive into that. And then you've turned that into a company that's now worth almost 200 million. And you've raised 200 million in capital and you develop class A storage facilities.

Yeah.

And you're local to Arizona.

Yes.

It's even cooler.

Yeah. Now, I am North Dakota original, but I've been here long enough now, so it counts.

Yes. So let's talk about that. So you were raised on a farm.

Yep.

And was your family very entrepreneurial and kind of ingrained that in you, or was it your own thing? Like, to walk us through your journey that got you started investing and then investing at 13 years old, which is crazy. And it sounds like me setting up a custodian account when I was under 18 and trying to trade stocks and stuff. But yeah, I'd love to hear that journey.

Yeah. So my family started farming in 1901, so there was. I was an entrepreneurial bug, you know, the homesteaders, I mean, they had a lot harder life than I did, that's for sure.

Yeah.

And so. And farming's the most risky business. I mean, it's risky as heck. And so everything else seemed pretty low risk to me because, you know, you throw your money out in the fields and hope the weather cooperates. You don't lose everything, so. But the family only focused on farming operations. That's all we did. And when I was, you know, about 10ish, started doing grain cart combine, working on the farm, making five bucks an hour. That's how I saved up to four grand. I actually saved up six grand, but I spent two grand on a go, a go kart. So I had four left. Balance, of course. Right. And so I started investing.

I just.

The market crashed when I was in ninth grade, and it was just a perfect entry point. I mean, everything was. I mean, I bought Ford at 99 cents, Bank America at three bucks. The first four grand, 80 grand, was all pretty much lucky. That was just timing. I learned a lot. Been a big Warren Buffett fan since the start. That's what I emulated Abernathy holdings after. Is Berkshire Hathaway a permanent capital vehicle. And so that was. That was a start. Yeah.

That's so cool. So you just set up a custodian account under your dad or something and then started trading stocks with your savings?

Yep, yep, Started trading. And that was the first. And then I was farming, too. My dad got in a really bad accident, so he was gone for a while. So my brother and I took the farm over when I was in 10th grade and he was a senior. And then Hibernathi holdings was just a side hobby. And then When I was 16, I found some apartments for sale in Bismarck, North Dakota, three hours away, and had some research on why the oil boom was going to come back, like the 80s, and they needed 1.125 million was the price. I only had $80,000 and the bank would not give me a loan with 80 grand down. So I went to a farmer, and I didn't have the money for legal work, so I printed off Warren Buffett's 1956 partnership agreement and he put in 300 grand. I put in 80. We bought him and the oil boom did hit and we sold them and I made my first million about my junior year with that deal.

That's insane.

Yeah. So that Was a great start.

Is it even legal to buy property before 18?

That's why you need the investor. For a lot of reasons.

Yeah. I was gonna say. So he was the guarantor.

Yeah, he's the guarantor and everything.

That's insane. So you made your first million by 17?

Yeah. 18. 17.

Holy hell.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Those are the first two lucky deals.

You know, I thought that I was always, like, ahead of the curve a little bit, because people tell me, like, you read Rich dad, poor dad at 13, and you sold your first property. Yeah. So good. Right. But then now I hear your story, and I'm like, shit, I'm way behind.

There's nothing else to do in North Dakota except make money and probably some other bad stuff you can do.

Yeah.

So it was good. Yeah. And then. And then that was kind of the launching point that, you know, I was farming. Now, this fund was a. Our company was a million dollars. Plus the guy that came in said, let's do it again. I'll keep it. Keep it going. So I went to a lawyer and I learned what a PPM was and all the regulations, and I made an offering when I was 18 for 10 million. And I went and raised it from local farmers. I raised it in. Within a year. I was like, eight months. I raised ten more million dollars.

Oh, my God. And so, you know, that's something because I'm in that capital, raising, financing, equity, debt, all that stuff. And a lot of people ask me, like, how do you get over the hump of being a young entrepreneur, a young investor? Because a lot of the. What am I, the contradictions? Objections. Yeah. A lot of the objections is like, well, how do you know what you're doing? You're so young, and this fund manager has been doing it for 50 years. So how did you overcome some of that?

Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing was timing. So farming in that. In that timeframe was. It was really good. I mean, it's probably the best it's been in 100 years. So you have people that have capital. Farmers are a unique group. They're not going to. Nobody can fly in from outside our circle, from a farming circle. And they won't give them money. It's just such a tight group. So they had money. They had nobody else not knocking on their door. Nobody's gonna. I'm going to land for North Dakota to raise money. That wasn't something people thought from New York. And so I was in a captive audience. They had capital, and each door I went to it's like, hey, here's how I turn four grand into a million dollars. I want to go do it again. I'm gonna. I have all my money. My net worth is in this 100% next year's. And everyone did like 50 to 100k. Right. It was kind of like, let's see what this kid can do. So every. I mean, I knocked on 10 doors a day and it was 500 grand to a million bucks a day. And it just kind of got to my 10 million goal. And then I. Then I proved it once the model was proven after that. Then raising was easier in my 20s because the track record when I was 24 was 10 years. 11 years. So then it started to kind of get a little easier, and now it's really easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Guys just keeps.

Now I don't need any more money. That's probably. It's like, yeah, when it's easy, I don't need it. So it's hard.

And then it's that balance of. Why do I keep taking on more?

Correct. Because I'm diluted. Yeah. Because I owned 100% of holdings, obviously at the start and at 4 grand. And I'm holdings itself. We have JV relationships as well, but holdings. We're coming up on about 100 million capital raised just in holdings equity, not including debt, and at a valuation currently at about 180. 180 million. And I own about 30% still.

So now are you valuating that based off of the real estate equity valuation?

So it's unique. Holdings is Berkshire Hathaway, which is everything is owned within the holding company. So holdings owns the assets. It owns the construction company, it owns a garage door dealership, the equipment dealerships, all the vertical operations. So we're valued actually a multiple of book because we're actually somewhat of an operating company as well. There are no fees, so I get a salary that's set by the board. I don't get a profit share. I don't get anything. My upside is my shares. So people actually pay a multiple on book because of the uniqueness of the deal. There's all the developer fees from JVs get paid into holdings. Not to me personally. So it's unique.

So you will not actually see the fruits of your labor really, beyond your salary until you exit.

Pretty much.

Dang.

Yeah. I mean, it's balance sheet looks great, but cash flow, I mean, I have great salary, I live a good life, but, you know, I'm not flying around in PJs yet or anything.

Right. You should get on that. That.

I should. I should sell a couple shares and make that happen.

Exact edge. Can you?

Yeah, I can. I try not to. There's a. There's a suit majority clause. So as long as I own 28.1%, I have effective control. So I could sell a few there. But, you know, when I'm 40, we'll probably start doing dividends, you know, and even if we do a couple. Couple bucks a share, I'll be making with my salary before or 5 million a year in income. So, I mean, I'll like that. I could enjoy all the leisures then.

Yeah. So you make it sound so easy, but I know it's not.

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of things brutal going on.

So what were in your early years, what were some of the challenges that you faced? Maybe your first deal or your first fund, your first $10 million raise that, you know, what was that mental battle that you went through and some of those bigger challenges.

Yeah. So, I mean, the biggest mistake is for me was in 2017. So I was going for a while, call it 10 years, easy math, nine years, and everything was kind of working. But I got a little broad I wasn't focused on. I mean, I had HUD buildings, commercial properties, equipment dealerships. I was on the board of a public company in Alabama, insurance company we owned, got control of. We just had a bunch of things. In 2017, I found this undervalued helicopter company, of all things, and invested just a million bucks. We were about $20 million company at the time. Just to give you kind of reference, you are what the company was a $20 million company at this time. Just to kind of give you a reference of, you know, so I put a million bucks in, so 5% of the market cap and doubled it to 2 million and sold. And then the stock dropped again. And it was a company that had a billion dollars in liquid assets selling at a couple hundred million valuation. So I put a million back in, dropped again, put another million in, dropped again, put another million in. So next thing you know, had 15% of our company in it. And it was our liquid cash, too, which is hard. I underwrote the business right, but I underwrote the people wrong. And they did a voluntary bankruptcy, golden parachutes, debtors flipped it, sold it for 2 billion. Like the numbers were right. But the. I wrote the people wrong, so that's my fault. And we lost it all. I was the lead plaintiff of a lawsuit. We won. They went to jail like they did some illegal stuff, so that's great, but we got 10 cents on the dollar back five years later. You know, it just takes forever. And so that was a really hard time. I mean that was the first time our share price went down. It was liquid capital. So I had to go and loan money from someone that I knew personally at 10% interest and put all my shares as collateral and I loaned it into the company at 0% to keep it going for the year. And that's when I met my mentor, Gary Tharoldson. He's North Dakota's first billionaire. And he said, Andrew, you're good at a lot of things. You're not great at anything. And that's when I learned that I need to start focusing and not adding divisions until I've focused and built and taken one division to where it can be first. So that was a big learning experience.

And what did you decide to focus on from that point and recalibrate? And how did you make that decision?

Yeah, so Gary, how he made his wealth was he printed hotels. So he said, Andrew, I'm not really in the hotel business. I'm in the, I'm the manufacturing business. I just so happen to manufacture hotels. So he started in 1982, he was one of the first to start with Marriott. Because Marriott owned 99% of their hotels in the 70s and now they own 1%. They went to an asset light model. Once they built the brand, Gary came in and owned the hotels. So he's built over 400 hotels in his career. He's going to turn 80 here this year. He's made multiple multi billion dollar exits to Goldman Sachs and a few other groups. And so his model was simple. He vertically integrated the process. He manufactured a type of hotel, Marriott's. He was opening a new hotel every eight days. At his peak in the 90s, 10% of new hotels in the US came from him. Through the 90s, the new hotels. And so I wanted to do the same thing. I'm like how about hotels? And he's like yeah, you know, that's been done. What's new? And so I searched, I was gonna. It was between nursing homes and assisted living and self storage. Self storage in 2017, which was the time of this conversation, public and extra space for the first time said you can now use our name, third party management. And it reminded me so much of hotels. The other benefits are houses getting smaller, affordability issues, Amazon and dropshippers use them. So I just saw a lot of upside. So I went and told Gary, he's like that's your billion dollar idea. And that was the start of the new model.

Yeah. So 2017. So it's been a good run in storage.

Our company went from 20 million to 200 million since 2017. Yeah.

That's crazy.

I found my niche.

Yeah. Congratulations.

Well, thank you.

It's so cool. I love, I love. I get so inspired by people. I never understood people that get envious of other people's success. I'm like, what is wrong with you? I guess I do understand. It's because these people just suck and they're never going to be go anywhere with their life and they want somebody to point the finger at because they won't point it at themselves. But they're the common denominator in their failures.

Exactly. But yeah, that does happen a lot.

Yeah. But I love it. I love seeing people like playing the game at the highest level and who are just obsessed with it.

It's so fun. And it's a game. It's. It's not about the money. Like I'm gonna probably give it all away at the end anyways. You know, I'm really big with my foundation and I just love the game. Like I want to create a private trillion dollar holding company. And as long as I lived in 95, I think I can get her done. Takes time compounding, you know.

It's so awesome. It's so nice to. It's refreshing to meet somebody who has crazy massive dreams and goals like I do. Because people tell me I'm a little like, bit too big of a dreamer. Yeah, but you have bigger ones than me.

Yeah, make them bigger. Let's go.

I know. I'm like, oh, I'm shooting for a billion and you're just throwing out the T word.

Yeah, I know. Through the T word. Well, by then It'll be like 300 billion in today's dollars.

Inflation, but inflation adjusted. Yeah, yeah. No, that's. That's awesome. And so how has. Because I know the whole economy has been challenged over the past few years since rates and the COVID debacle and the printing and all that stuff. We had some good news recently with the big beautiful bill. Whether you like it or hate it.

At least for real estate, with storage going to be great. Yeah, it's back.

But where have you seen whether it's somebody you heard of or whether it was any of your own deals? Where have you seen any deals go bad over the past few years? You know of any that you.

Sure, yeah, we, we. None of ours, fortunately. So, I mean, I'm going to chalk it up as fortunate, but I, I'm a big reader about the cycles like Ray Dalio's changing world orders like the Habsburgs, the Dutch, the British, the us the Fiat, non fiat, long term, short term debt cycles. Like I can go on for an hour just about that. But so in 2019 I wrote, I read an annual letter of your shareholders and what an annual letter to all of our shareholders every year and do a quarterly. And in 2019 I was writing about the. We were at the mid cycle and obviously I didn't know that Covid was going to come or anything, but we sold everything in Fargo, which is also the time we were going to transition into storage full time. So we sold everything off. So when Covid hit, we got really fortunate. We had a lot of cash, but we bought a lot of land over here in Arizona to start developments. And then when Covid hit there was a, the stimulus, the all the money was kind of being given away.

Ppp.

Yeah. So it kind of reminded me of farming when I first started. I was like a lot of people have money and they don't to do with it. So we did a 32 million dollar offering, filled it in like 10 months. And then, then I remember we were in Arizona and things were really crazy there for a while. Like everybody like a shovel ready site for storage was like $5 million. Like just you couldn't get entitlements done. It was cash closed no matter what. Like it was just a crazy time. So we had these ambitious plans. We had all this cash in our checking account ready to blow up, but I just couldn't get a deal that made sense at average rates because rental rates were you know, growing at that 3 to 5%. But then when Covid hit, rental rates like spiked in storage and everybody was underwriting them on that buck 80, buck 90 a foot. And I was still trying to underwrite stuff at a buck 35, right? The median if you looked at the big picture. So we actually sat on our hands and this was the hardest, one of the hardest points of my life. We sat on our hands for a good two years and didn't buy one thing and had all this cash. And towards the end, it sounds easy now looking back, but towards the end of it I'm like, I'm either really wrong or really right. Like if I'm wrong, this is gonna be bad, right? Because maybe this is just the new normal. Maybe this is just gonna be great. And sure enough, obviously interest rates spiked and things cratered and then we started, then we put the foot on the gas pedal. I mean, we, we, we got over a million square feet plus we're going on now. It gets, it's crazy. And so that was lucky.

Yeah. Because you timed it right. Because if you would have done a raise.

Yeah.

You have to deploy the capital.

Yeah.

And that's where all these fund managers get in so much trouble because they're like, we have to spend the money.

Yeah. And we don't.

Yeah.

So we sat on 50 million for.

24 months and you didn't give the investors back their money.

It's the holdings. It just sat there. They have shares because they buy shares and holdings. Yeah, and holdings still at our equipment dealerships, operating, you know, we have. We. So we just got a mobile home Parks, which is a new division we started this year, but good one. Yeah. So that's a big one of ours now. But no. Yeah, they were good. I mean, in my letters I explained to them it's the time to raise money and the time to place it are rarely in the same time frame. So they understood.

So is this a public company?

No, we're still private.

Okay. So it's just shares in the. Yeah. Units.

We're an llc, Delaware llc. But it's a company that never ends. People do buy and sell shares amongst each other. Company is first rate refusal. There's two and a half million shares. Units issued in the company and I own 750,000 of them.

So that's amazing.

I'm trying to keep it private. It's getting harder though, every day.

Yeah, I've heard, I know a lot of people that have gone public and they're just like, biggest mistake of my life.

Oh, that's good to hear.

Yeah, I've, I've had a lot of. Then you meet the people that do go public and they do amazing and whatever. But I have definitely heard it can be not the best decision.

Well, there's three reasons to go public. Access to capital, which I haven't had an issue with. Liquidity, which I haven't had an issue with. And using your shares as currency. And then the fourth one would be ego.

Yeah.

So I just haven't had an issue with any of those four things.

That should be the first one.

Yeah, that should be the first one. So I haven't had an issue with those four things. But if any of those four things become an issue, then that would be a reason to go public. But I always make sure I remember those because those are the only reasons take the ego out the other three reasons were the only reasons to go public. And so if I don't need those three things, then it's not because I need to go public. So I haven't. But our shareholder accounts grown, grew 20% last year, the shareholder head count and we didn't issue any shares. So it's starting to become a beast of its own that I'm trying to keep intact.

How do you guys, how have you identified your deals? And I mean you're in multiple different industries and asset classes. So how do you know it all right, like jack of all trades and master none type thing. I mean how do you evaluate that and where's your deal flow coming from?

So Warren Buffett's model is a decentralized management system, centralized capital allocation system. So my job is capital allocation, basically being a capital allocator cheerleader. So I, and I work with all the presidents. So we have coming up on 100 employees now. We have three divisions. We have our equipment dealerships division run by Luke Stewart. We've got our self storage, Abernathy Development, that whole division, all the verticals run by Nate Mayus. And then we got Ozark Communities which is now our mobile home park communities division. That's run by Dan Gibson at the holdings company. We only have three employees. It's myself, Matt Halvorson, he's the president, chief operating officer, he runs everything. And then Charles, he's our controller, cfo. And so how we manage it is each division has their talent. Each of those individuals that run these divisions have been in that industry for 15 plus years. They became wealthy independently, they put a lot of money personally into holdings. So they are in charge of each. Every company's run differently, so let's just dive into self storage. Nate Mayo says a land team of two individuals, they use a lot of AI, they have a lot of software stuff they subscribe to. We have an individual in each state we're in with boots on the ground. And their job is to literally just build relationships with brokers, do cold calling, mailing, trying to find these sites. And then once the site's found, it goes to our underwriting team. Once the underwriting's done, if we do it, then it goes to the getting the entitlements. Then it's handed to our own in house construction company. So then the construction company takes it and we have subs that literally follow us around. So like we have one site up and running in 12 months. Like we have it down to a science. And then once it's open, the Keys go to public storage and then once it stabilizes, we have a portfolio of over 100 million, we make an exit and we recycle that capital. So we always sell portfolios. We build them for less, sell them for more and do it quicker. So our IR and we don't have any pref or carry for anybody. And we get all the developer FEES from our JVs. So our IRR is mid to high 20s on something that most people would make 18% on. Yeah, because of all the verticals and the.

Yeah, that's a really good structure because that pref really can, you know, screw you if you don't time it perfectly, which is at some point you won't.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There's some that are great, some are bad. I mean, but the goal is to. We want to build 100 of them here by 2034. We got a quarter billion currently in the pipeline in that division. So you need to build a hundred. If you go bad, hopefully the more better than the other ones.

Yeah.

And then we give away a lot. We give away 2% of every one we build our employees. So every hundred we build, we give away too.

Nice. I love that. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so let's dive into that. That's a good segue. So how have you built an organization of 100 plus people and managing multiple different verticals? Lots of things going on, not only from capital raising to deal flow and management, but in multiple different industries to your construction vertical and your equipment rental company. How have you been able to identify and secure talented people like the best a players in the game? And how do you structure incentives to actually keep them aboard and keep them happy and keep them operating in their realm of genius?

Yeah, no great question. So I mean I've been really fortunate. I've really. What I've, what I've come to do is I find I'm a nerd. And I read a lot about every industry and so, and you know, the average company in the US makes I think like 13 to 15% return on total tangible assets, the operating companies. So I, I find I, in my head, I know the industries that make 25 plus percent, 20 to 25% plus, which is the, the higher enchilada of the industries that I like. So I know the industries I like. And then when I'm just out and about in the world, I find people that I like, that I admire, that have morals and, and have done really great things that are obsessed about a certain industry. And if I find that person Then I build a company around them. I see a lot of like a lot of buddies of mine have built really big hundred million dollar businesses. But the problem is they build the company around themselves and then they can't get away from it. They can't back out of it. It's impossible. It's hard. So all the companies that we have, I've built around somebody else. So I think people are the most important part. So I first find the person and then I, then I build the business around it instead of the other way around. And then the incentive is unique. So we do again. I stole from Warren Buffett. But our equipment dealership, the average equipment dealership, municipal equipment dealerships, make 18ish percent on book or on total tangible assets. Excuse me. So what I do with Luke Stewart is every dollar above average, he gets 10% of. So we have a 9010 partnership, holdings and Luke Stewart above that benchmark. And then I teach them things to do that quick, you know, receivable timeline, turning inventory quicker four times instead of three times, making sure you're carrying the right products. There's a semi, we have a semi fleet. Do the math. 20% is your hard hurdle. Or 18%, do you use it enough? Could you rent one the three times you use it a month, not own it on your balance sheet? These people then think like an owner and they are an owner. And where else can you get that? I mean every single president has made millions and millions of dollars by running our divisions because of this comp plan.

Yeah. And then who's responsible for recruiting inside of the companies? Yeah, like, I mean they are.

I don't even really know any employees outside of the, the six that I mentioned at the start. You know, I'll go to Christmas parties and say, I bet outside of those presidents and outside of the three and holdings I have, I don't say or sway anything.

That's awesome.

And I just kind of hang out, you know.

The human condition is the most difficult thing to master in life, in my opinion. And in business it is. And the systems and you know, all that stuff can, it's much easier taught but to deal with humans and be able to influence them and support them and encourage them and guide them and give them all the things that they want to actually stay happy. Because humans are just inherently always looking for something more or something different or something else. So.

And they're all different, programmed different, you know, and that's what we always talk, because I talk to the presidents multiple times a week and I'm a Big reader. I read a book like monthly, if not more frequent. And so I always send the leaders a book that I think would help them in the current situation they're in. So, like, Good to Great was a book I just sent Luke Stewart because he was. He was kind of in that. In a scenario where you needed a players and all that. So I'm like the advisor, the partner that just hangs out and lets them do their thing. It's their businesses.

Yeah. Are you the visionary or do okay?

Because I push hard. I mean, the goals I set for these guys are. It's crazy. Like, hey, Nate, can you build us 100 facilities by 2034? I know there's a 20 million bucks a pop.

Yeah, see, that's the thing, Andrew. I'm like, how do I get everybody to row the boat in the same direction? Because I found that not everybody has the same dreams that I do. So it's like, ah, okay. So I run on EOS Entrepreneur Operating System. You know, for those who don't know, EOS is just an operating system to manage your business and track KPIs and have your quarterly planning meeting and your annual planning meetings and make sure that everybody is accountable for their number. Right. Whether it's sales calls out in a day or whether it's revenue coming in or deals close or whatever their KPIs might be. But when I create a vivid vision for my company and think of my goals, I. I always find myself like, pulling myself back. Well, I can't say that because they're gonna freak out or they're not gonna believe it's possible, or how do I get people to actually buy into this and want to do it? And so I try. What's the balance for you? Basically, because when you throw out these numbers and they're the ones executing on it, I mean, obviously you are too.

But Operation no, it's really them 100.

Yeah. So how do you balance that? Because I'm like, I don'. To pull myself back.

Yeah.

But I also don't want to create a number that everybody thinks is impossible. And then we don't actually hit our metrics. And then they become irrelevant if you're just never hitting them. And then they're like, well, these goals don't actually mean anything because we're never going to hit them.

Yeah, there's a fine line. I mean, I was watching a documentary is Richard Brunson, and it was them talking about the rockets. And the video was on him. And he's like, yeah, we're Going to be in space and two years, whatever. Then it goes to like the engineers and they're like, yeah. He says they're gonna be in space and tears like it's not gonna happen. It goes, you know, it's just really funny, the dynamic. Same with Elon Musk. He has the same relationship. You know, all the greats have this really huge vision. So it's a balance. I don't know if there's really a science to it. Gary Tharaldson's the same way. I always set really big visions. But I also like, like this year we're gonna. Last year our equipment dealership surpassed, I mean they had like a 50% top line, 62% bottom line growth in one year. It was. And then, you know, this year they're actually going to drop a bit just because the egg industry is not doing all service trucks. Long story. But it's okay. Hey look like it's all good. Like let's just level up. Like, you know, we have. It's going to be okay, you know, so it's. I'm never. These presidents are going to be hard enough on themselves. So I do set really big goals, but my goals are usually 10 years out. You know, I don't get too crazy on setting huge goals like that next month or something because then those, it's tough if it's 10 years out. You can kind of pivot a little bit to make it kind of come out where it's not too hurtful.

Yeah. Because they're like, oh, it's so far away.

Exactly.

Whatever, you know. Do you, do you run on an operating system?

Every company's different. Yeah. So most of them do the eos, some of them do not. Some of them do some other different programs. They all kind of have their own systems. So whenever I'm in a board meeting with that company, I, I partake in whatever. Like today we had a quarterly with our equipment dealership and we, we run that one run on EOs. So yeah, they're all different holdings is pretty simple. I mean what I do is, you know, I got all these investors, three divisions, one checking account and holdings and they're incentivized to send me money they can't put to work. And when I, my cash pile gets too big, I got to open a new division.

So do you guys pass through depreciation and everything to the shareholders?

K1, that's people. So you've never done a dividend? Yeah.

Waiting on my damn K1 from Jeremiah.

Are you?

Yeah, he's A storage fund out of New England.

Yeah.

And yeah, I'm like, I got to find. I need a new cpa. Sorry. All these things piling on my to do list.

But they're great. Mobile homes are great too. So, yeah, we've never done a dividend. Shares were $7.92 in 2012 and today they're 80. So our compounding growth for 12 years has been, I guess, 20.62% compounding. Our goal is 15. It's. We've beat it. But. But these, the dividends is basically the K1s. I mean, the depreciation is astonishing. Like, this year we'll open up, you know, 70, $80 million in storage and 30ish percent of that will be cost sag and 100% now with the new tax bill. And mobile homes are like 50%, like we bought 1500 lots or 1300 lots last year, mobile home parks.

And where you said mobile homes are.

50% of what the cost sag is a lot higher on those. The bonus depreciation.

Yeah.

Yeah. So just two great industries for the cost sake.

Yeah. It is so nice. I know when I was flying around with Arthur and Jeff Hyatt, the cost guy, he was sharing that, you know, different asset classes are not created equal when it comes to cost segregation.

Yeah.

And that can have a big impact on your bottom line, big time.

And we try to design, to do, I mean, if it's movable, if you do movable walls, whatever is like, you can milk that too and get more out of a building in that, in that bonus depreciation column.

Yeah. And that was another thing is different companies will do different levels of depreciation. Like I was working with the client that we're doing a loan for, and he's like, yeah, this company said they'll depreciate 1.7 million. This company said 2.7.

Yeah.

And I actually didn't realize that. I was always just like, okay, this is the person I go to, but I never really thought of, you know, it's just like a cpa, they all have different strategies. And your tax liability is not going to look the same depending on the area.

Not great. It's. Yeah, it's tough. There's no right answer.

Right. Yeah, yeah. But you feel comfortable with cost segregation. And if you are watching and you don't know what cost segregation is, it's basically the American dream of, in my opinion, and this is why I choose to be in real estate, honestly, is one of the reasons. There's so many reasons But Cost segregation allows you to. And we actually have a podcast being released. Well, it'll actually come out before this one gets released, but it's going to be on my channel. It's with Jeff Hyatt. It's on Cost Segregation. The whole podcast is about it, but it allows you to save on taxes. So if you buy a million dollar property, you might be able to write off $400,000 against your ordinary income. If you're a real estate professional, you get some benefits. If you're not a real estate professional, they're not quite as great. But yeah, it's a huge tax strategy. So you can actually compound your wealth much faster. Because imagine if you're saving 30, 40, 50% of whatever you buy each year and you instead of giving that to the government, you get to buy more real estate, more assets, whether you're buying it on your own or investing in somebody's fund like Andrews. And then you just get to compound that wealth much quickly. Much more quickly. Because you're building on pre tax dollars, essentially.

So, yeah, the other thing too, that's unique, we have. I personally get a debt basis too, because I personally guarantee Gary and I personally guarantee all the loans and holdings. So I always tell investors like, I have 30% of the upside and 100% of the downside because I'm the only PG with Gary. But by PG in the debt, I actually get a debt basis too. So like my $70 million in shares that I own, I bought them for 12. Well, that's. My cost is depreciated out to zero. But now I'm even depreciating to negative because I get my debt basis. Now if debt shrinks, I have to recapture that. But in theory, it could just keep on rolling even past my cost basis.

Yeah. Due to the pd, which is so nice.

I mean, there's risk with it, but yeah. Yeah.

So Gary is your mentor and he's also your partner.

Yeah, jv. And he owns some shares and holdings, but he comes in on our projects. 50. 50. He pays a developer fee and a construction fee and all that, which goes to holdings. So our IRR and holdings is a good 2 to 4% higher than his. But I can see him slowly just wanting to be more in holdings.

And how did you meet him?

Cold called him when I was like 20.

No way.

Yeah, I was in Fargo. I'm like, you don't know who I am? I called his office.

Yeah.

And he called me back. And then he just took me under his wing. And now like we're best friends. Like, I hang out with him and his family all the time. The whole, like, they're great people.

Yeah. So you were just googling farmers or did you.

I googled the richest. I googled the 10 richest people in North Dakota and I called every one of them. But Gary, the. The most wealthy is one that called me back and took me under his wing. And now we've been friends for about a decade.

That's so cool.

And then I followed his model and. And did something with it. So then he just loved me more because we just are this same. Per me, he's older than me, 50 years older, but we have the same mindset.

Yeah. Who, not how.

Right.

I think 100%. And that's what this podcast is about. You know, when I was younger. What, you're 30?

31. Yeah.

31. Okay. I'm 29.

Yeah.

So. But they didn't have podcasts. It was like you had to go to the library and try to find a book or luckily we had Internet. I can't even imagine.

And all that was lucky. But.

Yeah. Although I never went on YouTube.

Yeah. I did a Harvard class. I learned a discount. I learned discounted cash flow on a YouTube hour deal on YouTube.

Really?

Yeah.

It's amazing, you know, now and then now with AI.

Yeah.

It's a complete game changer. And so knowledge is free. Truly, absolutely free.

Emotional intelligence is the difference.

Yep. Yeah, yeah. The relationships and all that. But I think that's the thing is one of my biggest mistakes or regrets was I had so many internal issues growing up that I just put everything on me. Like I have to figure it all out. I have to be the one to execute. I have to go do this. And I didn't put any energy or effort into building relationships. Now all I do is relationships. Relationships. And that's what I really love and thrive in. But I had to get. I was so insecure that I didn't have the confidence in myself to actually go meet people or find people or call the, you know, richest billionaire in North Dakota. I would have never thought to do that. But it's just so cool that you. You're so smart and you knew so young, like exactly what you needed to do. You gotta. Robert Kiyosaki tells me this all the time. Is like, you're. What is the three skills that he teaches you? The three skills that are the most important skills is capital raising, public speaking. And there's one other that I'm forgetting right now, but capital, capital raising and public speaking. Are the two most important skills. So you pretty much started that like right away.

Really young.

Yeah, really young. And building those relationships.

Yeah, Trying to raise money for people that are 50 plus. And then, and then my presidents were, well, way older than me. I mean, I'm a 20 year old. Hiring 40 year olds to run companies like it was, it was something I had to figure out.

And you just met these presidents who end up becoming your partners organically or were you like identifying them and cold calling them?

Well, when I was, When I was 19 or 20, I bought my first operating company. I bought the equipment dealership in Great Falls, Montana. Started 1947, bought it for a little over $3 million. And I'd never been to Montana, so I'm like, hey, mom, dad, I'm heading to Montana, I'll see you. Not sure when. So I went and got this like $20 a night hotel that was like five blocks on the door. It was sketchy. And I lived there for three months. And I remember I was, I closed on the deal. And I'm sitting in the, in the, in the office with the guy I'm buying it from that's running it and owner operator, and he's showing me how to do everything. And I'm in, I'm in my head like, oh shit. Like I never thought of, I don't want to run this business. And I just didn't think about it. I thought he'd stay on for a while and it'd be good, but he was gonna head out. And so I'm like, shit, like I'm not gonna live in Great Falls, Montana and run this thing. So there was a guy that was there, he was like 50s, and he was showing all the employees a new piece of equipment. He was like the representative for a manufacturer we sold equipment for. And so we're driving to get a steak dinner. Mind you, I'm not even 21 yet. I had to get a. Nevermind, I can't say that. Anyway, so we were driving to get a steak dinner and, and I said, you want this job? Do you want to come and run this company? Like employees love you, you know what you're doing? He's like, no, I'm too old, but I know a guy. So after the night we call up, this individual called me named Luke Stewart from Idaho. He's been in the industry for 15 years. He kind of hit a cap at his other business because the owner's son was going to run it. And he drove that was, bought the company January, made that call In February. He came for an interview in March and he was in the president's chair by April 15th. And I was back to, back to North Dakota. And he single handedly as 15x that business. He's just a rock star. So very fortunate.

That is incredible.

So I never bought a business that I didn't have somebody lined up for after that experience.

Yeah. And Jeremiah with Patriot talks about this. He's my best friend and one of my closest people in my life. And so he talks about, he actually did a talk on it at one of the masterminds we're a part of. But it's called ultimately is you when you're making a bet, you can't just bet on the horse or just on the jockey.

Correct.

You have to bet on both.

Yep.

And so the horse is the vehicle, that's the asset class or the business model or whatever. Right. And then the jockey is the person behind it. And so you said in the beginning of our podcast here, you bet on a good company but you didn't make a right bet on the people. And Gary Vee, I watched his podcast a couple days ago on the Cody Sanchez show and he said the same thing, like I made a bad bet. I mean it was a good horse, bad jockey.

Yeah.

And it's so important and it's really when you're looking to invest in companies, I almost feel like the, the jockey may be more important than the horse.

I think so.

Yeah. Because they'll, they're relentless. If you have something like we're not quitting.

Yeah.

You know, we may mess up, we may lose, we may fail, but we're never actually going to lose or fail because we're never getting, we know how to pivot.

We never give up. It's going to happen no matter what. And that's, that's 100%. It's really about people. And that's where I basically now just meet people and build businesses around them because those are the hardest things to find. And you can find it. I mean if you go so when I was, I'm one of six and my parents did such a great job as young as younger kids to find our passion, we'd be on the dinner table and they would throw topics out and whenever one of our eyes would we turn and look or feel interested, then we, they'd have one on one time with us on that topic. And we've all followed our own dreams and did whatever we wanted. I do the same thing with business. I mean if you go to a dinner with A bunch of business people, and the conversation gets quiet. You can tell the. The conversation they want to have about what. And Luke Stewart, he naturally lights up when he's talking about equipment. Right. He dreams about it. Nate Megas with storage, and Dan with. With mobile home parks. I mean, you can. You can see passion. It's so clear as day. So if you accompany passion with a good person has morals, that's driven and already financially successful already, like, it's magic. And these build a business around them.

Yeah, I love that you said that. I'm actually doing a talk next month, and I was writing out my talk over the weekend, and my talk is called Flow versus Force and How Living in the Green Zone Can Exponentially Grow Any business.

Yes.

I think that's what I titled it.

I like that.

But, yeah. And this was the catalyst for me because I kind of mentioned growing up by anxiety, depression, the add, adhd, like, all these issues, depression as well.

So there you go.

Really?

Yep.

Well, welcome to the club. Yeah.

Two kindred spirits here.

Yeah. Yeah, I. I don't anymore.

Yeah.

I think I got off antidepressants about a year ago.

I need to. I'm scared because I got testosterone stuff now, because that's part of it, but I'm really scared. But I should probably get off of them. Yeah.

Yeah. Well. Oh, my gosh. We will have another whole. Yeah, we'll have to do a whole nother podcast. But I was scared, too, because I was like, I don't want to go back, but I did so much work to get myself out. You know, it's like how Western medicine just wants to cover up the side effect, and then that creates another issue, and then you get another drug. You know, I was on 15 medications, and I just had so many problems, and. But when I did all the inner work and the therapy and plant medicine was a huge catalyst to. To letting go, because I think we just have so much stuck energy inside of us and us drivers, especially in entrepreneurship and the type a driver personality is, we just shove it down.

Yep.

Focus on the next high, the next deal, the next hit, the next client, the next goal. Yeah, exactly. And we can fake it. We can lie to ourselves and make ourselves believe that we're okay.

Yeah.

Because we're always high on things that society rewards us to be high on versus alcohol or drugs or whatever other bad habits you could have. But. Yeah, and then if you never actually tap in, like, peel back the layers of the onion and tap into all those little things that have been one of my Therapists that I've worked with, she calls it a soul tumor. Like, right when we're just a kid, we get a tumor starts to develop in our soul. Whether we're bullied or made fun of or our dad doesn't see us, or our mom judges us or, you know, girlfriend dumps us, or a boyfriend cheats on us or all these things. And then this tumor just grows and grows and grows. And we're never taught how to actually cope with it or heal from it or process it. And so we become these shell of human beings that are machines, that are just obsessed or addicted, disconnected. And then at some point, we wake up in our life and like, who the hell am I? What am I doing? And I'm. Am I like, I'm actually miserable inside? And then that's what happened to me. I'm like, okay, well, I thought money was going to make it better, but it. It did. Money makes misery easier, but I'm still in misery. And when did you start that journey 25. I hired an energetic intelligence coach. Well, I hired a business coach. Yeah, that's the only way to get in my circle is business related, Right. And so a friend of mine who is a big land guy out here, he recommended I work with this guy named Poet, and he's like, yeah, he's a great business coach. I've been working with them. And at this time, I had. I was raised in such scarcity mindset. No money. I can't have this, can't buy this, can't do this. And so I was terrified to invest this $10,000 into this coach. But I was so hungry to grow, and I finally had the capacity. I was like, okay, I'll, you know, invest the money. And we didn't talk about business one time through the eight sessions we had. No. And I was like, I thought this was business coaching. He's like, it is. Because this is the most. This has a bigger effect on business than anything else than any marketing plan, any funnel, any whatever, right? And it was all about energetic intelligence. And he said that same thing of, like, start to take energy audits throughout your day. Like, tool number one, energy audits throughout your day. So set alarms because you're. You're gonna forget and you're going a million miles an hour. Just 30 second, check in. Where am I? Who am I with? What am I doing? Do I feel good or do I feel bad? Do I feel expansive or do I feel contracted? Do I feel excited or do I feel stressed, overwhelmed, or bored? And I started to track the things that lit me up and the things that sucks the life out of me. One of the people that sucked the life out of me was my fiance. So I left him. And so it was this. And nothing against him, he's a great human. But I started to be in tune with my energy and the things that lit me up or not. Clients. Right. Because I used to say yes to every client or capital, say yes to every dollar. Or I started three construction companies chasing money. I hate construction. I have no passion for construction. And so just starting to pay attention and just that little tool helped me actually start to lean away from the things that made me feel contracted and lean towards the thing that made the things that made me feel excited and passionate. Like, you can I get so excited about this?

This is passion.

Yeah. So fashion first.

Yeah, first example here.

Yeah. But that little shift started to compound so massively in my nervous system and in my exterior results. Because the quote that he taught me is the outcome can only be as great as the energetic state in which you initiate the action. And so he said, there's no point in doing anything if you are not in a peak energetic state because your outcome's going to anyway. And that's where you hear like, everything's gone wrong today. Or da, da, da. And people are like, oh, you woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Yeah, it's energy. It's energy. And when you can enter actions with peak energy and stay in a state of flow, then you're going to have great outcomes and it's going to just be easier.

That's what people always say. Like, you know, you're lucky or you're this. It's, you know, you know, and yeah, I've had some things, you know, but I, I. And the Gary's told me that he's like, andrew, I like investing with you. I like being with you because you're just, you're a happy person. Like, I'm optimistic even when things are bad. I'm just like, it could be worse. You know, it's just that energy and people are attracted to people with great energy and great excitement and optimistic and like, not a Debbie Downer and Eeyore. So.

Yeah. And as a leader.

Yeah.

You have to be a cheerleader.

Who's gonna follow a pessimist, Right? Yeah.

Oh, and there are some pretty, you know.

Yeah, there are.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, some people do. But I just think the outcomes are not as great and what's the point of it all if you're not Going to be happy.

Yeah. Because if you're happy without money, you won't be. You won't be happy with it. I mean, it'll make you make things easier, but it's not going to like make you all of a sudden just peaceful and happy to the core. I mean. Yeah, that's what I've learned. And that's where for me, my lifestyle hasn't really changed much in my net worth. Has a lot. I mean, it's just once you get to that, a few hundred grand a year, like it's. And I do want a PJ someday. I do want that, don't get me wrong. But I'm like, gosh, I better wait till I'm at least 40 because if I get it at 30, then what? Like, what's next, you know?

Right.

So I'm just kind of hanging out, just trying to like, make sure I enjoy the simple things in life. And yeah, I do nice things, don't get me wrong.

But what's that plane that Danville's area knows? That's the one I want? The G7.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Black Matte Black with the HP Gulf Stream.

Right? Exactly. Yeah.

So nice. Actually, everyone I know that has jets, they're like. It's a nightmare. Yeah.

I think NetJets actually might be the way. That's what Gary does.

Yep.

That's easier. I don't know, that's probably. I'll do.

Yeah, same.

I don't want my assets to own me.

Yeah.

I don't just rent, have experiences, you know.

Although it would be cool.

Yeah, it would be cool to check.

It off the box.

Yeah.

And then be like, okay, been there, done that. I'm gonna go to NetJets now.

And it's not if. It's not if, but when for us. Like that's a fact. So that's the cool thing for us is it's actually gonna. It's a thing. Yeah, it will be a thing. You know, for some people it's just like not even a reality or a dream.

Yeah.

So.

So how are you married? Kids?

I was married for nine years. Got divorced about, you know, coming up on a year. Three little boys got married really young. She's a great person. Just, you know, we're really good co parents.

Yeah.

So.

Well, you know, it's. It's so hard. Relationships are so hard. And especially in your 20 to 30, especially as a man, because they take a little bit long, like fully.

I sure did.

Yeah. But you changed so much.

They changed a lot. We both Did. And I'm. I want to do all these things, and I'm really ambitious and a big dreamer and. And I think she just wants to, you know, live a good life and just. And, you know, do. Do what most people want to do. Right. Just hang out and. Yeah. It's hard to explain, but just want different things. But she's a great person. It just didn't work out.

Yeah.

You know, I, like, so, you know, so young.

Yeah. I, like. I don't know who said this. I think it was Lila Hermosi. But you want to find a partner that has bigger dreams for you than you do.

Correct.

And for people like you and me.

Yeah, that could be kind of hard.

Yeah, it could be a little challenging. And for me, particularly, like, to find somebody that feels that way that isn't 80 years old, you know, like somebody that's within reason of age. Yeah, exactly. So I struggle. I struggle. I've always struggled in relationships. I've been through many, many relationships, and I just have never found that thing. And then also, like, this guy asked me out because I'm single right now. This guy asked me out on a date. He's like, when can we hang out? I'm like, I'm booking into October.

That's your thing.

Yeah.

Because I, again, basically recently now, ready to explore. And dating's a lot different now than when I was 20. Like, apps and all these things. I'm like, what is happening? So I just want to go, where can I pick you up? And they're like, pick me up. I'm like, what do you. I don't know. Like, that's normal, right? And I had one, too. I'm like, oh, I'm not available till, like, next month. And she's like, next month? And she just didn't even reply back. I'm like, sorry.

Yeah. And it's like, we're not even trying to blow you off.

Yeah.

Like, we really want to get together.

Yeah.

So how do you. I've been having this conversation with my friend lately and about, you know, he's 45, I think, and built a massive empire, you know, has it all. Great guy, amazing relationships, great returns, great wealth, all these things. But then he's like, at this point where he's like, well, what. What is it all for?

Correct.

You know, I don't have a kid. I'm not married. Never been married, never been engaged. Like, I just work 100 hours a week. I've been working 100 hours a week since I was 18. And it's great. And I love the game, but is this it? Right? And so I'm thinking about that right now because some of my guy friends are like, oh, well, you should probably, you know, prioritize a relationship because you're going to end up alone and old and rich. But for what? Right? And, but I struggle with that because I'm so obsessed with the game and I love my team and the business and the deals and all those things. But then part of me is like, oh, am I, am I missing something here? Am I missing the mark? You know, am I robbing myself of the full human experience because all my eggs are in the basket of business? What are your thoughts on that?

I don't think there's a blanket answer for everybody. Everybody's different. You know, for me, I have three amazing boys and I've set the dynasty trusts and I write annual letters to the boys and they're amazing. Like that's my legacy. And so I take a lot of pride in that. I'm excited. But I don't think that there's an. And I think it's harder for a woman too because guys can have kids at really any age for the most part.

Yeah. And guys become more attractive as they.

Age in a certain, I think what, 40 some they peak or 45, I.

Think whatever it is because they, they get more wealth and they're more mature and they. Guys in their 40s are good looking too.

They're way more stable and they just, yeah, they know who they are and that's attractive. And so I don't think, I don't think I have the right to even speak on it for, from a female's perspective. Because my perspective is a lot different. Right. Like sadly, I mean, you can freeze eggs and you can do things like that too. I just think people live longer. I think now like longevity is going to be getting to a point where who knows how long you can live. So I don't think people have to have rush and have kids and do all this in their 20s, even early 30s. I just, I feel like it can be prolonged a bit. I think you can maybe have it all, all. But I'm also an optimist. I think you can just have everything.

It's so funny, I always say that. I'm like, I think you have it all. Yeah, maybe not all at once, but eventually. But eventually it takes time.

You gotta, you know, and sometimes maybe some people meet people that have kids. Like, it doesn't need to be your own kids. There's adoption, there's surrogates. I mean, there's just so many options to have a family. I think. I think all kinds of families are beautiful, and it doesn't need to be the traditional sense. That's my. My thought. So what, what drives you building something bigger than me? You know, I'm fifth generation. I'm excited to leave the family legacy bigger and better than I found it for my three boys. And I just want to continue to grow as a person. I'm better than I was when I was 20, and I'm hoping I'm better when I'm 40 than I am now at 30. Like, I just love self development. I do a lot of therapy, doing academy therapy right now. I'm just always trying to better myself. And, yeah, I just really want to build something really big. I want to make a mark on this planet, and then I want to give it away. I'm going to probably do the giving pledge. You know, if kids get 10% of whatever I build, they're going to be more than fine enough to do anything, but not too much to do nothing. But the other 90%, I want to go back to society and I want to do something really, really big.

Yeah. Because I feel that way, too. And sometimes the worst curse you could give to a kid is a trust fund.

100.

Yeah. It can be great if. If it sounds like you design parents.

Mine are great. Yeah.

Yeah. But if it's not very well designed and thought out, it can be a disaster as well, just as being poor can be a disaster as well. For me, it was a massive driver, but it didn't work out so well for my brother. You know, we're very opposite people. People are like, how are you sure you guys are from the same family?

It's funny how siblings can all be different.

Are you all successful, your siblings?

Yeah, in our own ways, yeah. I mean, you know, one got her. One's got a doctorate. One was Misty in North Dakota. Top three Misty in America. And she did her stuff with that one. Farms. One's traveling Europe right now. She's like 23. One's a teacher. So they're all successful in all their own ways and happy. Just great. We're really close. I mean, three of us live in town and three of us live back in Lansford. And we get together all the time, best friends.

That's so awesome. To have an awesome close family is so blessed. Something that I always wanted. But I have. I have a. I call my adopted family now. They're. They're big in real Estate, and they're just amazing. I'm flying out to Wisconsin to see them. I love that this month.

But see, family comes in all shapes and sizes.

Exactly. Yeah. My mentor tells me about that, too. Is like, family doesn't need to be blood.

No.

And we choose our. We can choose our family.

Yes, you can.

So it's really beautiful to be able to build those types of relationships and get so close with people that aren't your blood, too.

Exactly.

But what I know we. We don't have much time left here, but I want to dive in because you seem like you have it all, right. You're amazing, and you're wealthy and you have this massive company and you. All these things that everybody dreams of. Right. But then you also mentioned that you struggle with depression.

Yeah.

So I want to spend the last few minutes here and dive into that. Like, when did that start, and where do you think that stems from?

Yeah, you know, I started a young age. I think it's in the family, like, for generations. It's kind of been a thing. It's. Nobody's ever actually, like, taken care of it or got medication until our generation. My family didn't even talk about it. But then it turns out all six of us, kids are actually on some sort of medication we didn't even know about. So it wasn't, like, talked about or ingrained in our brains. It just. We naturally all went about life privately with that, and we all ended up being in the same thing.

Oh, wow.

So it's kind of in the genes, you might say. And then with six kids, like, you know, I don't have it all. Right. I mean, my wife and I didn't work out, and that's been hard. That's a season of life. And we were always loyal and great people, but, you know, I had codependency issue from childhood. There's six kids. It's tough to get a lot of attention and see you kind of get this insecurity, you know, tumor you mentioned earlier. And that's something I really had to work through through my twenties. Was that insecurities and just not thinking that anybody would want me or why does she want me? And then you just. That's. And that's not attractive or great. And so that's something I had to work on. The depression was kind of part of that. So it's been a lifelong journey. The depression part, it hit me really hard when I was, like, 16, 17.

So, yeah, that was pretty dark days for me, too.

Yeah.

Yeah. And college was the worst College was worse than you. I was 100 isolated.

Yeah. That was bad for me as well.

Yeah. Even with medication.

Yeah. I was, I got dosed a bit wrong. I had had a mistake and it was, it wasn't a good couple years.

Yeah.

So then I got scared of it. So then I got off of it and then I got back on it and now I've been on this dose and it's been good for eight since by 2016. Ish.

Yeah.

Now I'm just scared to get off. But now I do peptides, you know, I do testosterone because that was like really low, I think a lot of stress. It was like 200, which is really low for someone in their late 20s. So that's really helped a lot.

How do you handle the stress?

Stress is thinking about things you cannot control. So I try to think about things I control. And when I do get stressed, I. Instead of looking up at Mount Everest, I just zoom down to my steps I got to take for the day. So I just kind of have little methods I use because every day is different. Some days I'm just all good, looking at the stars rolling. And then some days I just got to focus on what needs to be done today because I'm a little anxious and just not feeling really good.

Yeah. Do you have a morning routine or what's your, what's your routine to get into flow?

Yeah, wake up. If I have the boys, I spend time with them, make sure I get them to school, we have breakfast. If I don't have them, I do breakfast. I work out and I usually start my high level meetings around 11 to 2. That's like my peak brain. And then from like 2 to 4, I'll do. I'm an Excel sheet nerd. I love to just like dive into all the businesses so I know all the numbers or doing emails or catching up on calls. And then usually if I don't have the boys, I'm doing supper meetings. Yeah, I say supper. We're in the Midwest. And if I do have the boys, I pick them up every day and we have our dinner or go swim. I'm at the Optima now. And watch a movie and tuck them in and have my routine with them. So then the next day starts.

Which Optima?

I'm sorry, you're in Kierland, like two minutes away.

Okay. So pretty convenient. We're neighbors. I'm close. I'm in Paradise Valley.

Oh, you are?

The other one.

Just sold my house in Silverleaf, so I just moved in there two weeks ago.

So Nice.

My new life has begun.

Yeah. Well, congrats.

Thank you.

And what, Yeah, I have a morning routine too. And that was another tool that my energy energetic intelligence coach taught me was you have to get into a flow state. And so you have good outcomes. Right. And you feel good and you want your organization to be in a flow state. Train them how to audit their energy, manage their energy, be able to reset their energy if they recognize they've been knocked out of a flow state.

So what does yours look like in the morning then?

So I wake up just before sunrise. I drink a 32 ounce of electrolyte water. I bring it with me on my walk because I can't chug it. And I do a sunrise walk in silence, no phone. Nice. Which has been a game changer. That's kind of my meditation. I played with meditating, but I always found it to be a very stressful thing. But if I kind of walk and meditate where I see the sun coming up and I hear the birds, I can still kind of have that stillness. So that, and then I run to the gym, workout, weight train, run back, or usually I walk back with my audiobook. And so I learned something, you know, personal development, business, entrepreneurship, real estate. And then from that point I, I'm pretty much in a peak state. And while I'm at the gym, I listen to like house music, high beat per minute stuff that gets me really energized. And then I'm usually sitting behind my computer by like 7:30, 8:00 clock, depending if I wash my hair or not. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, and then I just keep, you know, keep it going throughout the day and I just stay very aware of the things that make me feel energized and things that really drain me. And sometimes I'm just exhausted because I burned the candle at both ends. And then I have to realize, okay, it's not the things I'm doing or the people I'm around. I just need to take a day off.

Yeah.

Or sleep, you know.

Do you sleep how many hours a night?

Well, so lately I haven't been sleeping well. So I, I, I had an insomnia issues for many, many years. But if I don't sleep at least seven hours, I'm pretty miserable. Yeah. So yeah, I need seven hours.

Yeah.

But I slept really good the past few days because I smoked my weed vape before bed. And so I'm so energized today. I'm like, oh, I feel so good. But that's something I struggle with too, is I always was kind of a little bit, a lot of it dependent on my, you know, THC vape to help me sleep. Because otherwise I would just stay up all night. And if I don't have sleep, there's nothing worse.

Exactly. Is that bad? Because I'm with you. Like, I do a sleep med every night. Sleep. I can't sleep. My mind does not shut off you.

What's a sleeping bed?

A sleeping bed. Like, I do. Yeah. Unisom is like my go to. Pregnant people can take it. It can't be that bad. Maybe it is. I don't know.

Yeah. If I take any sort of sleeping pill or even melatonin, like the next morning, you're. No. I get very, very severe nightmares. Really horrible. Horrible lucid in my room. Nightmares like murder.

Oh, my God.

Like, horrible.

She'll stick to the thc.

Yeah. And so that's the only thing that I found that just blackout sleep. Wake up so refreshed. Wake up before sunrise.

I feel like that's not bad. Like, sleep's so important.

I know.

That's why I always tell myself, like, yeah, I do unison every night. But like, you know, not sleeping is probably worse.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just. It's always that balance. Right. Because we. People like us, we don't want to be relying on anything.

Yeah.

We want to, like, we got this control. Yeah. Having control. Like, I don't drink. I work out every day. I do my routine and all these things. At some point it's like, oh, sometimes we need a little bit of help here and there. And it's just that balance of what's healthy, what's not, what's a good balance. And is this ultimately serving me in a way that is beneficial? And it doesn't have, like, everything has a side effect. Right. As I wake up, like, a little bit, I notice I have a little bit of tightness in my chest if I do have the vape. But. Yeah, but only for a few minutes. And as soon as I get my routine going, it's gone.

Yeah.

So that's the only con I've noticed. And I eat sometimes too much.

Yeah. When I do it. Yeah. Huh.

Yeah. So that's. That's it. But other than that, it seems to be beneficial.

That's the hardest part.

And I'm not a drinker.

Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. That's the nice thing is, like, it sounds really bad. Like, I do more weed now that I have kids because, like, hangover. You don't have a hangover.

I know. Who has Time to be hungover.

I know. It's like, yeah. Especially with kids and business. Like, oh, my goodness, how many hours.

A week do you work?

I mean, I'm always, always on my phone. I do everything on my phone. And my iPad, I always have with me. I just love it. But I really try to. When I get those boys, when I have them, half the time, I really try not to be on it at all. But I'm always on, and if I'm not on it, I'm still on it, you know?

Yeah, I know. That's what I struggle with. I'm like, I don't know how I could possibly in a million years have time for a partner or a child.

I know.

But I think that's a lot. It just shifts probably, too, as you.

It does. And. And I'm always doing again. I bring the boys, like, we're going to Australia here in January, and I'm always trying to integrate them, and I can't wait till they're a little older. Like, I bring them to the buildings. Like, every one of them says they want to build buildings. Like, daddy, when they get older, we drive down the interstate, they're like, did you build that building? I'm like, no. Every building they think I built, I'm like, no, but they. They want to be me. And it's just like, so that's fun to me. Like, I'm still working, but I'm still spending time with them.

Yeah. Has it. How. How has parenting changed you?

I have slowed down, and I have way much more of a routine, which has been really healthy. You know, without kids, I feel like I'd be traveling a lot. And I. When I'm traveling, I want my routine back. When I got my routine, I want to be traveling. So it's really tough. So the kids have really helped me be balanced. It's like a. A healthy tether to the world to make sure I'm not just floating out in outer space, lost. So it's just been a really good connect. And I'm not saying I couldn't have got that any other way. I mean, I had my first kid at 23, and so I don't. I had my last at 27, so I don't really remember. I guess prior to that much. That's what I think it's benefited. But I never really lived a life before that. Weirdly, like, you know, you're young. It's just college. It's normal stuff.

Yeah.

You know, but if I had my first at 30, I probably could have had a better answer of comparing adult life before and after.

Right. It's just been your life. It's just my life. Yeah.

I don't know any different. I mean, I'm not much older than them.

Yeah, that. That'll be really cool because you'll be such close friends.

Oh, yeah. They're. They're the best.

Yeah. Well, cool. Well, thank you. I know we gotta stop here, but what is. Who are you studying right now or What's a good book you've read recently that it would be good for the audience?

A lot of them, I would say so. I do a lot of, like, documentaries. I did one. It was Kirk Kakorian, the Gambler. I really enjoyed that one. That's a really good one. I'm doing the Elon Musk book right now. I did Ford's book last week, the Story of Ford. Trying to think of some educational ones that aren't just biography. I do so many biographies. Good to Great. Was a great one.

Yeah. Jim Collins. Built to Last.

Built to last. I just did Leap of Confidence. Leap. I think it was a leap of confidence. That was a really good one to kind of just build some confidence. I have. So. I mean, I literally have, like, hundreds. I could.

You know, it's. It's so funny that most. The people that should be the most secure are often the most insecure.

100.

Yeah.

It makes no sense logically. Right. Like, why. But sometimes these people just. I am. People are. I mean, I'm way better now.

Yeah.

But, you know, divorce set me back a bit.

On your shoulder.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just weird.

It is weird. I know. I've. I'm a lot better now, too, but. Oh, my God. I was the most insecure, broken person I had ever known.

Now I'm not. But. Yeah.

Right. That was the only place I had confidence.

And that's why we like living in here.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's our happy place.

Exactly. We're just gonna stay in our happy place, which is most people's nightmare. I know for us, we're like. It's our comfort bubble.

I feel like a thousand feet tall in the industry, and then when I'm not in it, I just. It's weird.

Yeah.

Two Life.

Help me.

Do you have any good books?

Oh, so many. I'm an avid reader.

When somebody asked me, I was like, freeze. I'm like, I literally have so many.

I know. I know. Yeah. That's the one I'm reading right now. I just finished who, which is about hiring, like, the. A method and how to hire an interview properly. Because I'm not a good interviewer. I'm very much a. I'm a fixer.

Like, interview your podcast.

No, I mean within, like team members. I'm just like, I like your enter because I'm so energy driven. If I like their energy, I like them. And sometimes that doesn't mean that they're actually good at what the job is. Exactly. So I'm trying to hone my craft as far as interviewing go. Like, how do I really uncover. One of the skills in the book was if you are trying to ask someone if they're detail oriented, for example, don't ask, are you detail oriented? Because of course they're going to say yes.

This.

Yeah, most likely.

Yeah.

Instead you start to learn how to ask strategic questions. As in explain to me what your closet looks like. And they'd be like, oh, I don't know. For me, I'd be like, well, it's a show, but my maid keeps it pretty organized.

Yeah.

You know, and so I'm not a detail oriented person. And so that would tell the interviewer like, okay, this chick is not detail oriented.

Yeah.

But if you ask, I would have never known that question. They were trying to figure out, am I detail oriented? It's like, oh, here's what my closet looks like.

Like, that's interesting.

Yeah. I mean, you could say it's color coded, but that's because I only buy black. So it's just black, but yeah.

That's your color of choice.

Yeah, it's all I wear for 99 of the time.

Yeah.

Because I don't like to think.

Yeah.

I'm too busy to try to figure out what I'm wearing. Like I have multiple pairs of the same outfits.

That's who I am too.

Yeah. That the cleaner washes them once a week. I'm like, I got five pairs of everything.

I've really opened up lately. But usually it's just T shirts and I got like five buttons. Ups easy.

Yeah. You have blue eyes though, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. So you. So you look good blue.

Yeah. Gotta wear that blue. Yeah, I'm colorblind too, so.

No. There you go.

Yeah. But thanks.

But yeah, that, that was a good book. And then I'm reading my mentor's book. He's also, I think he's almost a billionaire. I don't know if he is at the, the, the B mark yet, but he just released a book called 17 runs.

Okay.

And so I'm just reading that one. And one of the of the best Quotes from the first three pages I read was he talks about brick removal. So we all are walking around with bricks on our head. And these bricks are limiting beliefs, self sabotaging beliefs that have been formed from the time we were a child, from our parents, from our. The people around us, from society, from all these things. Right. And there's a process called brick removal, which is how you really reach your highest potential. You have to remove these bricks that you're walking around with on your head that. That you believe to be true, and they're not true. Right. But he said, when you go through the process of removing the bricks from your head, removing the obstacles that are in your way, you have to be prepared for the discomfort that you will chase as you start to rewire your old patterns. And that I've read that line so many times over and over because it's so true is like, we have to understand that it is painful to change. Like, it is so painful to rewrite the script. It is so painful to let go of old beliefs. It is so painful to question your own identity. And when you understand that the pain is a part of it, the pain is a privilege, and it's part of the process, then it makes it a little bit easier to lean into the pain and understand that all the answers you're looking for lie within the pain.

Yeah.

And that was what was very helpful for me as I shed all the disorders that I was diagnosed with, and most importantly, just actually was able to create a life where I'm really happy, like, just to exist. And. Yeah, that. That process of brick removal and leaning into the pain.

I'll have to get that book. That sounds. Sounds like a good one.

Yeah, it's good. I'll send you one.

Yeah, please do. That'd be good. Yeah. Gary's got a book, too. Secrets to Success. That's a good one. It's about Gary's life, my mentor.

Perfect. I'll have to read that.

Getting another one written now.

You're next.

Yeah, well, I'm gonna be in that one, so that's exciting.

Perfect.

Yeah.

That is exciting. Yeah. Have him. I know Robert Kiyosaki wants me to. I want to write a book, but I'm, like, worth the time ghostwriter for sure, you know?

Yeah. Would you actually write it yourself?

Oh, hell no. Yeah, I can't. I'm a talker. I'm not a. It takes too long.

I do, like, audible because I can't, like, understand reading. I mean, I want to read, but, like, I absorb it when I watch it or I listen. I do like, a lot of documentaries. Visual or audible.

Same. I know. I recently started speaking and I do not like writing.

Yeah.

Speeches. So I just talk into my phone and it all writes it out for me. I'm like, perfect. Here we go. Picks it up. Yep. Like, chat GPT just picks, like, the grammar and the structure on this and. Yeah. And then just practice it. Make sure it flows well.

But I do write our annual letters typing. But then ChatGPT makes it, like, sound better.

Yeah.

I just kind of word vomit.

Oh, I love ChatGPT so much. You know, you people using ChatGPT, you gotta remove the dashes.

Yes, you do. That's a giveaway.

Yeah. I like, it's such a giveaway so fast.

I I glad you said that.

And. And like, a lot of the massive accounts.

Yeah. On social media has all these dashes. I'm like, come on.

I know people with millions of followers, like, rookie move, rookie move.

Gotta watch the dashes.

Anyway. All right, well, I have another podcast.

Yeah.

So you're awesome. You should definitely come back and we'll get into all the. The mindset and mental health and that kind of journey, more on the emotional side of things. But thanks for coming on the show. Yeah.

Thank you. Appreciate it.