You Don’t Need Permission to Be Powerful — Lynn Ngugi on Building Without Validation

Hi everyone, welcome to Conversations and Plugs. My name is Wagu Joy.

And hi everyone, my name is Cliff Kinyo and welcome to Conversations and Plugs. And I think one of the things we keep telling our viewers and Guys who watch us is please subscribe. Like we've noticed a lot of you guys come watch, not subscribe, like. So please subscribe so that we can bring you more of this content. Yeah, and keep it locked here. Right today. Today is the day we have the

guest of

all guests.

But it's interesting because she's not a guest in her show. But today we've made you a guest. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you. We're so grateful to have to have you here finally.

Yes, moriega.

We are good. We are good. So, so, gosh, thanks for coming on. I think it was very interesting trying to prepare for you. However, maybe the, the first question I would like to ask you is, when did you realize that your voice mattered?

But she's not introduced herself. Oh,

oh yeah, okay, I'm so sorry. I assumed everyone knows her.

Don't worry, it happens. Um, First and foremost, really happy to be here. My name is Lingugi or Nyambura. I'm embracing the Nyambura right now. I'm a media personality, a disruptor, and a proud African child.

Proud African child.

Very proud.

I love it.

Very, very proud.

Yeah, we watch your shows. We can tell you're in it.

Yes.

Yeah.

Any business?

Yes, of course. I'm the co-founder at LNN Network. That's me and my co-founder right there, Joshua J. Karanja. We have an incredible team of— we have an incredible team and also very supportive audience. So that's something I always love to put out there.

Yeah.

Yes,

I mean, your audience look amazing. I, I read the comments as well. So when did you realize that your voice mattered?

When I was a child.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think when, when I was a child. But then I feel back then, we were not as confident as we should have been.

Yeah.

Right now, I think most of us are healing our inner child. Because we would say things that were a bit unconventional, and you would get punished for those things. But then now you look back and you are like, man, they should have just let me be.

Yeah,

yeah, they should have just let me be. Yeah, I was very cheeky. I was very curious. And sometimes, as I said, I think we were brought up in a way that people had our life, you know, planned for us. But now I think a lot of us are now, you know, walking like stepping back and realizing that the people— the person you were when you were a child, this is who you really needed to be. Yeah.

And now, are you that person?

Absolutely. Now I feel I am. It's a work in progress.

You're coming into your own.

Yeah, it's a work in progress. Interestingly, you, you, you are wearing Sankara right now, and—

Oh yes, you are.

Beautiful. Yeah. And it's crazy that majority of us grew without understanding how significant such people were or still are. I mean, their memory is still with us. So I'm still a work in progress because I'm still trying to figure myself. I'm still trying to ask myself, am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the wrong thing? And I feel you never stop asking yourself questions. Yeah. So right now, uh, I, I think I'm in a good space.

You know, I'm listening to you tell that Um, part. And I just thought about Africa and how Africa was kind of told to not tell their stories, just like controlled to a point where your voice needed to be like locked in a box. But now I think as Africans, we're now starting to regain our voice back, meeting our inner child, and to some extent going back to meet the Africa that was before. You've seen it with like even in Kenya, like for example, the Kikuyu, um, the Kikuyu tribe, you're finding like there's so many celebrations around that. Um, it's like people are coming back to their own in order for them to plot their own future their way.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it here. I think it's interesting, it's beautiful, it's a great time to rediscover yourself. It's just beautiful. It's a good time. It's a good time to be now.

Yeah, it's a really good time to be African. And I Well, I'm always— I mean, I look at watching the stories that you tell. One of the things we set out to do at Conversations and Plugs is to— we have a bias for entrepreneurs and businesses, but African, because we've, we've got to be the voices that tell our story.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm curious around how do you curate your stories? How do you choose them? Because you're doing the same as well. I look at some of the stories that you tell around colonialism, around ownership because of colonialism, systemic issues that we talk about, even in terms of business. We have very dated laws that perpetuated, um, systemic discrimination or colonialization as well. How do you, how do you curate your stories? Um, I mean, what, what, what goes into play? How do you— I mean, what are you, what are you usually thinking?

Nice, because when you say it, I feel like now I stop viewing them as stories, but now I view them as conversations. Welcome

to Conversations and Plugs.

Thank you.

Yes, I view them them as conversations because then I, I, I, I think that's where we went wrong because we allowed people to tell us stories and these stories mostly were already put out there.

Stories told by the

oppressor, told by the oppressor. We allowed actually to, you know, it, it's so bad that even in school we didn't even pay keen focus to our own history. We were busy learning and studying history from other people's, um, eyes. And obviously if you allow an oppressor to dictate a system, they are not going to curate it to favor you.

No.

Because at the— their end goal is to make sure that you never ever come to realize how strong you are. Because once you realize how strong you are, then they know definitely they are out of this place. So nowadays I don't do stories, I do conversations. And sometimes I curate conversations based on how am I feeling. I mean, last year we saw what happened around the finance And I think the reason many people are shocked, it's because they believed they're the only people who can tell a Finance Bill story.

Correct.

We will never go and start having conversations on Finance Bill. I'll be like, Wango, what do you think about this, Cliff? What do you think about this? Now when we meet and we have conversations, I think at the end of the day, I'm loving the conversation aspect as compared to a story.

Yeah.

Because conversations, I get to hear your thoughts. You get to hear my thought. We don't have to agree, but at least I know where Wanggo stands. I know where I stand, and I feel like that's how you build the world by having conversations and not just having stories like stories to nahavzi to peleke. I don't know.

Yeah. I think just listening to you, one of one of one of the things I have seen. And we've talked about even on the show, especially around creating wealth and businesses, has been around. If you look at elections, personal brands, being a content producer or building a media brand is a big asset in this world that we're living in. Did you deliberately set out to build a— because your network is called LNN. I was just like CNN. No, it's LNN.

Yeah.

So did you have that in mind in terms of building this thing? Um, what, what, how has it been evolving, this product that you have? Um, what's that journey like?

I feel like for me it's kudos to everyone that uses their name, especially in a brand, because, you know, it can go south real quick.

Yeah.

I think for me I was just daring myself. Can I put my name in a brand and stand by the brand? Can I grow with the brand? Because I'm not always getting it 100% right. There are many instances where I know I've gotten it Yeah, but I got it wrong because I put myself out there. I don't like the perfection mentality, and I don't like hiding behind another word so that if you crumble, people won't come.

Yeah,

so

you decide burn the boats.

Yeah, burn like let it burn, let it burn, you know. Yeah, and of course it was nice. LNN. Sometimes I sit back. I honestly wasn't going for CNN. But by the time I was stepping out to build our own brand, people already knew my name. People knew Lynn Ngugi here and there, Lynn Ngugi there and there. And I didn't even have another alternative.

Yeah.

And I loved the fact that people knew my name based on me trying to create authentic work. Not perfect, but authentic. Not perfect, but authentic. So it's been a journey just like any other business. I mean, just like this podcast, I saw you guys, you're approaching like your 70th episode. You have like— no, not episode, like you have almost 70 videos. And it's a journey. It's such a journey. Because one conversation is not the same as the other conversation. So you have to constantly put yourself out there. And I love that I put myself out there as Lynn.

I mean, even for us, it was pretty scary because you're not sure how guys are going to react.

Really?

And I think, yeah. Yeah. I mean, at first, I mean, and that's why I was saying you do it afraid and then you just find out as you're going. Okay.

Yeah.

Now in terms of building personal brands, which— how is your brand doing? How is that? And I love that one of the things you've talked about is you need to be authentic.

Yeah.

Which is, which is a big thing as well. We keep talking about— I think we had Dan here, Dan Aseda, the other day, and one of the things he was talking about was authenticity. Just be you. And I love how you bring your, your whole self. How's your brand doing? Is it growing?

Yeah.

What do you think?

He said nobody can tell your story better than you can.

Yes.

Um, and I feel like you started off very much integrating parts of your life that kind of brought healing to the entire— like, to your audience.

Yeah.

Um, one impactful episode for me which just brings the authenticity is your best friend and having a conversation with her after being estranged for so long. That's what I see. For me, you— I can see your authenticity. And honestly, it brings healing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, if I was definitely to leave this world today, I think I would be okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, if I was to measure it, I think I would be okay. I put my best foot forward. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy. But if I was genuinely to leave this world today, I honestly think you guys would have a blast in my funeral. Yeah, we probably would. Yeah, I would want people to celebrate. I would want people to look at me, see the fear. I love what you say, do it but do it afraid. See the fear, see the strength, see the weakness, etc. I would want people to really be inspired and have a blast.

Yeah.

How do you maintain that Especially that thing for doing it, I mean, maintaining your authenticity. Now you're building a digital brand independently.

Yeah.

Monetization without compromising your authenticity. How do you do that? Because I think before we, we started recording, we were in the back, we were talking about how sometimes you end up compromising because brands have come, you're being paid.

Yeah.

Um, what's that line like?

I know, like, I think the worst part about you always being in front of the camera is people don't get to see the support system. You know, I honestly, I say, I think for me, I am blessed with a great support system. And talking of our support system, my co-founder Joshua has told me before, even if it gets hard, When you feel like you can't do it anymore, don't do it. You get it?

That's pause.

So he's— yeah, he's given me that affirmation. And he always tells me that don't get outside your authentic self to serve— oops, sorry.

No worries, we'll just fix it as we go. You can carry on.

Yeah, it's okay. Like, don't serve the needs of the brands and then forget why you are doing what you're doing. So to answer your question, Both— let me do it 2 ways. First and foremost, I have an amazing support system, and that's not just even Joshua alone. I mean, we work with a great team of editors.

Yeah.

We have a whole business department, the one that he heads. Then I have an amazing producer, EJ.

Yeah.

We work hand in hand to curate the conversations that we want to bring on board. So when it comes to content, I am supported fully.

You're very focused.

Like, honestly, like, I will go to my my chair and host and not feel the burdens. Or this is happening, there's always someone. Like, I see you have an amazing team that people might never get to see. Yeah. But they're out here setting the cameras, the audios, the lighting. So support system, um, amazing. Then being affirmed by people who have seen your journey for a long time and they understand. And I tell people And I'll repeat again and again, do not create with a brand in mind.

Oh,

that's good.

Like, for real, do not create with a brand in mind. And I feel that's the mistake a lot of creators are making because you want to create because you are targeting a certain lotion company, you are targeting

a

certain brand, you get it? So by the time you are creating, you are acting funny. By the way, you are acting funny because you are like, notice me, I am the one with the numbers. Please put your product in my whatever, and that messes up your creativity.

Yeah.

And I always tell people the genesis of creating is break. It's like do or die, and that's the part where you have to be okay being alone without a brand. Oh, you so you have to be surrounded by a support system that tells you come out and rent. Either come chill with me, or I'll support you, or go back to your parents' home, or wherever you find or feel safe, right?

Yeah.

The initial stage of creation— now I sound like I want to create like God or whatever. No, the initial stage of being a creative is you understanding that things will not fall in place. I mean, when we were starting Elenin, it was crazy. And that's the story majority of people will never know. We went without being paid. Okay, I'm happy now I have a salary, but we went around 2 years, 2 years without earning. We actually lived off my partner's— he was working for— he was in parastatal. So luckily for him,

yeah,

we had something to fall back on. So I tell people, when you are creating, also be okay with having. a, like, a fallback— not a fallback player plan to leave you at, but your support system. Have Wango here, have Cliff here, someone who is going to hold you when things are tough. Then be loyal to your authenticity, because even when you create right now, because you are focusing on a brand, the brand will come and give you 2 gigs, then they'll move on to another.

Yeah.

They'll move on to another influencer, quote unquote, another influencer, because the brand Brands, they are not here because they value your creative journey. They are here because they need to reach your audience.

Correct.

So they'll come and pour money, 1 episode, 2 episodes, and then they are going to exit. But because you lost your sense of direction at some point, by the time now you are going back to your authenticity, you don't know what to create anymore. You are like, wait, what was I supposed to do? So you've wasted a whole 1 year creating because you want to attract the brands. But that's 1 year of wasted authenticity. So I tell people, the first stage that many people don't like talking about, it's the tough stage. But then you'll either give up. I think—

The building stage.

The building stage. It's the hardest part. But once you crack that, once your people get to relate with Wango or Cliff because of how authentic they are, you won't miss your 1,000 people, loyal people coming to watch. Because of how authentic you create. So I tell creatives, the money is good right now. I can say, yeah, the money from brands, it's good, but it's a bonus.

Yeah,

because if you don't strengthen the foundation, you'll, you'll fuck— okay, you'll mess it

up, you'll

fumble. I meant, I was gonna say, I was gonna say you'll fumble.

We knew that, it's fine, we support that.

You will, you will fumble. Yeah. And then because creating is also— it's intense.

Yeah, correct.

It's intense. So you'd rather put that energy into laying a very strong foundation as compared to let me attract this brand. Don't create for the brands, man.

Yeah, yeah. I remember going to see a friend's house. He was starting his build and he'd laid out the foundation. He was doing the foundation at the point. And so I walked in and I was like, oh, Um, this is what you've been doing all these months, just building a foundation. And honestly, sometimes you can't even see that work. But if a foundation is built wrong, yes, nothing can stop the building from standing. It'll go down eventually.

It

will. Um, and, and I find that for, for found— like, building that foundation is so important. Yeah. But realistically, Lynn, in a world where in Ruto's economy, how does a creative start to kind of bring together— I'm building something, but I still need to support myself, I still need to build up— is the word build? I need to build up some sort of fund for me to live off that as I am creating.

Again, no shame. Ask for help, you know. I always feel like when you are creating, the end goal is to show people, see, I told you I would make it. See, look at me now. Look at me now. Look at me now.

Yes, I made it

mentality. Me, I felt no shame. I went to my co-founder. I told him, hey, me, I want to leave this place, my former place. I don't have— of course I had a few, uh, shillings here and there. I had my savings, but honestly it was not enough. But It was burning in me. I felt like, God, I can't even do this anymore. I can't be here for another week. So I give him a call and I'm like, hey, me, I wanna leave. Like, me, I'm done. I wanna leave. But also financially, I knew where I was, right? But my ability to open up to him— because sometimes we wanna open up to people, but we don't want to tell them our real financial situation.

Yeah.

Because the end goal is, I don't want you to say you helped me. I don't want you to say, for Lynn to be here, I contributed 10K. But the truth is, if you have authentic people in your circle, people who you go to— sometimes I feel like we just go to people because we want to gossip, or you want to let something off your chest, and money is where we draw the line. By the way, you would rather go copper another person, and Cliff will never know you are in— Yeah. you are in— you're having issues. Yeah. You get it? So I feel like if you're going to curate a circle and these are the people you call friends, can I call you and get 50K from you? Can— even if it's not 50K, can I call you and get some food from you? Can I— like, are you friends for the emotional support but the financial aspect of things is where you draw the line? So I feel like it's very important to form a circle that can do the whole 360.

Yeah.

You guys can hang out with, you guys can talk about, uh, your finances, you guys can vent, whatever, whatever it is. So for me, I did not have the shame to go out there and say, I don't have enough, can you come through? So by the time he was coming through, you see, that's weight lifted off my shoulder, right? Because again, Creatives need to know we are not good in the business aspect of things.

Acceptance

is like,

for real, you, you go through that too?

I

mean, you are more of entrepreneurs. You guys, you know, you're just chilling here now. You are just— to you, this is a bonus. This is just—

but you know, us, yeah, you have

to be

okay with somebody else did the creative. Us guys are just like, oh, good job.

You know, yeah, but you know, I was telling my partner in the morning, I— you know, the reason people like Whitney— we lost great artists. Maybe it's because they didn't have anyone to tell them, stop.

Yeah,

this is okay.

Yeah,

I don't want to look at this as Ruto's economy. Ruto will come and Ruto will go. I don't want to use this as an excuse for me not to keep showing up. Things are tough. You have people saying we want to tax the digital economy. You don't even know anything about the digital economy, but you want to tax a digital economy you've not invested in.

Correct.

So I'm just like, these are just people who came to power through our bad choices.

Yeah.

Because we have to hold ourselves accountable, our bad choices. However these people will go, do I put my art pending for the remaining 2 years as I wait for this guy to go. No, I'm having conversations with my friend about the injustices that are happening, what could go right, what is going wrong. Let's curate that and put it out there as a show and let us hear what other people are thinking. You know, there is business in crisis.

Yeah.

Actually, majority of people who succeed in business, they succeed when there is a crisis.

Yeah.

I mean, you have big farmers here who will not tell you, you blend your cabbages and carrots and drink that soup. They would rather tell you, go buy this for your gut issues. Go. That's how they benefit. They are benefiting because your gut is in crisis. But people will never tell you. You know, so I tell people, if you can create even in a tough economy, Create a lot of businesses bloomed after COVID. Why is that?

And the COVID millionaires,

they are

COVID of the right kind and the wrong kind.

Yeah, so I, I think it's how you look at things, you know. Is the glass half full?

Yeah.

Or half empty?

Well, let's just screw that glass altogether.

Yeah, I was talking the last couple of weeks, there's some people I've been interacting with, and one of the things that stood out for me was this guy who was saying that Africans by design But we are political and social creatures. So even in terms of our businesses, we approach them that way, but we are not economic.

Oh.

Right? So we will never organize ourselves to whatever ventures. And that's why probably the reason why you're seeing when it comes to money, no one will talk about it. I have this business idea. Seguing into you and community, which I think is one thing we've been trying to— eventually we want to build a community of Because we understand that, like, I don't think we would do this podcast if it wasn't for everyone who was just like, we have this vision, what do you guys want? And everyone brought their best self. Like, it's crowdfunded. Like, from a talent perspective, you can do this, you can do that. So I'm really resonating with, with how you're building your community and, and the support system that you have as well.

Can I say something?

Yeah, absolutely.

On us being political and social creatures.

Yeah.

Me have a problem with the woke culture. No, me being one of them. Yes. And you guys being also, you know, by the way, just because you've reached your wokeness does not mean you forget how we got here.

Correct.

It is so sad.

Yeah.

That again, going back to our education system, and that's why I said all of us collectively have to make sure that we are playing this role because there are a lot of wrongs that we need to right. When you go to our education system, please tell me right now, if I ask you what was the immediate cause of First World War, oh, you'll be like, oh, the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo, Bosnia. I don't know where Sarajevo is, right?

Yeah.

Who is Sarajevo? Who is Sarajevo?

Who is Sarajevo?

Who's that? Who's that? Right? But in the same education system,

yeah,

they take lightly the subject of checks and balances.

Yeah.

They take lightly entrepreneurship. They, you know, they— I was actually—

what is civic education?

I was with a guest and I think the guest told me, Lynn, let me tell you, in my— when I got my first payslip, I was so sad and mad because what do you mean you many cut a tax? What do you mean that is this percentage of my money is going to tax? This is NH— that huge percentage is going here and there. Why? Because in class they don't teach you. By the way, when you start getting employed This is how your payslip is going to look like. These are— I just saw a video on Instagram of someone talking about Kenyan designers. Those are not even indigenous Kenyan designers.

I saw that one.

Did you see?

Yeah, I was like, let me see.

Those are not even indigenous Kenyan designers. You are talking about people who have benefited from the colonial system, right? So when we say Africans, we are wired to be political and social, no. That is what was dealt to us. The challenge is for us to accept that, because I feel like we can't be in denial.

Yeah.

We can't go and rewrite history to how we want it to look like. Those are the injustices that were dealt to us.

Yeah.

Now, how we do better is to acknowledge, yeah, by the way, this is the root of why us Africans, we are social and political and whatever. Can we now pay keen attention to our Economic sector. The only way we benefit out of a system is to accept yes, that happens.

Exactly.

But now which role do we play to turn things around? Me, I don't want to go blaming Kenyans. Ni muamki, you guys. No, I want to be like hey, we went through this, but we can't live here forever. So now what do we do? Because we gotta move chap chap.

Yeah.

These guys, you see why the politicians are failing right now? We've mastered their art of manipulation right now. 500 na shuka and some t-shirts,

reflector vest also,

reflector will chase you. We'll be like, what is this?

Yeah,

the awakening is happening, but an awakening cannot happen without us accepting.

We must, we must, we must, we must. You know, you know that thing for dependency you talk about is, is is some things I came across today when I, I was driving. There's a place I usually pass.

Yeah.

And every Friday there's people coming, a huge drove of people coming with bags to receive food, and they get probably a packet of flour and some oil. That is some crazy dependency.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure the guy who's doing that assumes that I think is very good-hearted, by the way. I think he or she or whoever they are assume that this is cool, I'm feeding people. But when I was driving past it, I was just like, all these people, women and children, as in women with lessors and whatever's on their back, and they're coming to— and I see them every Friday. And I was just like, today I was musing to myself, I'm just like, like, how are we gonna— how are we gonna change this? Because I mean, the populations are growing.

Yeah.

The inequality will even get even worse. Uh, the people in power have decided like it's them against the population, so we are just slaves. That's why the pay slip hurts the way it does hurt. But we are not creating enough value, and our politicians are not— okay, we as a political system are not doing enough to reset the systems to enable enterprises to flourish, to teach the things that create wealth. And that's the one thing I'm grappling with And we've been grappling with, and that's why I was just like, no, like, some of us can't know this stuff and not share. And, and I'm loving how you tell your stories as well. And so yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a real thing there.

Yeah, democratizing— you're democratizing knowledge and also through conversations. Um, I want us to go a bit like way back, way back.

Okay.

Um, I want to say before Linkwuki Network, but I'm happy to start at Linkwuki Network.

Yeah.

Where did that come from?

The network?

No, just the idea, the birthing of it. Where did it come from?

The, the, you know, the child in me. You know, I've said this a couple of times. I was so fascinated with TV. I was so fascinated with news anchors. I know I'm not a news anchor, but the thought of—

I mean, look at you now.

Yeah.

Like, you know, like seeing the late Catherine Kasavuli, the Sophie Kenyans. I was like, hmm. Dear Lord, these women. There's another one. What's her name? She's late too. I really love her. Anufula, the late Anufula. She was absolutely amazing. And I think I would encourage parents. You see these things your kids call kalungulungu. Please pay attention to those things because there's something there, you know. So I remember I would even fake I'm talking to someone. We are having a conversation. Me, I'm here. Yeah, psycho behavior. behavior. I know, me, I'm here, you're there, I'm asking you questions, you're answering me. So to answer your question, I feel like I always loved this, what we are doing here.

Yeah,

if you pay keen attention, I can do this until tomorrow.

Yeah, we have—

I love this. I love

interaction,

interactions, conversations. So I always really, really admired that. But then again, what's that? What can you call it? What's the name? Because the names we knew,

yeah,

and the names that were out there— lawyer, doctor, engineer,

politician.

Yeah, something that majority—

put that in, put

that in— like something that majority of us at our age are struggling with. That's why we are really connecting the dots and going back to our inner child. But I think my mom, obviously an amazing woman, she played a huge role affirming whatever it is that you wanted to do. Like, I remember I was so fascinated with being a lawyer. Thank God I didn't go towards that direction, but it's because a lot of my people, the people in my circle, were going to study law. So I was— I really wanted to fit in.

It's a rite of passage.

Yeah, yeah.

Doctor, engineer, lawyer.

Yes, you know.

Yes.

But then as you grow again, there you have the Amanpors, you have all these women that now you are looking up to. And then But still, like, I wanna do this. So when I told my mom I want to join a media school, I think that's the greatest gift she gave me. She took me there without understanding.

Just like that.

Will I ever make it?

Yeah.

And that's the fear I know a lot of parents have. Whether you are sending your child to go do law, medicine, the fear is always, will they ever get to practice considering the rate of unemployment we have in this country? But you see, the passion for a parent is right there. Apart from the parents who want to live their lives through their children, because you didn't become a lawyer, now you're forcing your child to be a lawyer.

Yeah.

But the genuine parents who want to support a child's passion, I think their greatest fear is, will I ever see them practicing? So that's a struggle I know that was there for my mom. And of course, as predicted, you finish school, but you don't get to practice. And of course, there is the, the years in between where you have to ask yourselves— yourself, I really did this, but no opportunities around. And again, create opportunities sometimes for yourself. You'll get to practice what you studied for, but don't minimize— Yeah. The opportunities that are presenting yourselves at that Particular moment.

Yeah.

So I went and became a barista. I'm a good coffee maker. Oh yeah. So I became a barista in Dubai again. I transitioned again. I went to Qatar. I became a waitress. So yeah. So again, I know the end goal, but I am also. Na jikubali tu manzi. See na yo. This is this is hard. I won't get there, but I'm like Missy Lalinga. By the way, when you are struggling, motivate yourself and say, "Uta Lalinga."

Yeah.

I feel like that's a very good motivator. Missy Lalinga, if there's an opportunity, but don't lose that grip or the hope of. I kind of know where I want to to to go.

Yeah.

And those experiences in between before your end goal, I feel like they play a very key role.

What are the biggest influences? Sorry, Wago.

I just want to say, yeah, sure. First one, as a parent, I'm starting to realize we're building for— we're raising children for a future we don't know because there was no YouTube. Your mom, like, yeah, even if you told somebody I want to do YouTube, they'll be like, let's go to Madare,

let's go get you checked.

Um, the second thing is I feel like even as you're in the Gulf, I— you were in service to your vision. And I still think you're still in service to your vision.

I filmed a whole documentary in Gulf. I had my colleagues telling me— I actually called it Life in Arabia. I would go to my colleagues and be like, talk to me about your experience, put like a voiceover, shots here and there. Amazing. I had a whole documentary.

Oh, well done.

Yeah.

And you wonder where it came from. Yes, it was being built as you were brewing coffee.

Yeah, your foundations were being built.

Yeah.

Even when you didn't know you were being built.

And that's the part.

What are these big influences in your life? A single mother?

Um, yes.

Yeah.

My mom.

Yeah.

Uh, my big sister.

Yeah.

Uh, I think all my siblings.

Yeah.

They've influenced me one way or another through their struggles and achievements.

Okay.

Of course, my partner.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's the most authentic human ever. Uh,

it's like it's

on set.

Which part?

Me, I didn't say which part. Yeah,

you

know.

Yeah, so, but I will never leave out Denzel Washington. You know, I gotta put the partner before Denzel. You know, I'll never leave out Uh, Denzel Washington.

Yeah.

The Wangari Maathai.

Um, um, um.

Um, yeah, the amazing, incredible Wangari Maathai.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So I think pretty much I don't have big ones, but those are like—

yeah. Are you ever seeing yourself moving into like mainstream media?

No.

Film?

No. Uh, film, yes.

Film, yes.

Mainstream media, no.

Oh yeah?

Maybe because I suffer from the fact whatever Lenny Katers.

You're like You refuse to invite me to the table, I'll make my own table.

I mean, I made a table already and I'm not looking back.

Okay, okay, okay. So yeah, so if, if I'm an entrepreneur, yeah, making content, what would Lynn be telling those entrepreneurs?

If you're—

there's first, all entrepreneurs need to make content.

Yeah, it's— yeah, absolutely. Yeah, all entrepreneurs, you need to make some form of content. I mean, in the new world we are moving to, not all, but I mean, you can just see the power of personal brands. Um, I mean, there's lots of examples I think you, you can see, not just entrepreneurs as well. I think it's for everyone if you can, because media is going to be very— media right now is very impactful, right? I mean, lots of democratization of audiences. Attention has shifted, right? And if you're able to build that community and monetize it, even better.

Yeah,

yeah.

I feel like I would tell someone across board, know your why.

Know your why.

Please know your why. Yeah, know your why. Because

I mean, how do you figure? I mean, the why just feels like it's always a moving target.

It is.

Yeah,

it is. But you know, kona kale ka starting point, you feel, why do I want to come? Like personally, me, I'm a fan of your conversations on your platform.

Thank you.

You know, and you— it doesn't have to be big for you to associate with it.

Yeah,

but the energy and the flow.

Yeah.

And how you guys have the conversation for me, it's it's like I really looked forward to being here.

We blame it on on Dan.

Why?

Dan told us to be authentic.

He did a good thing. That's actually my next one. You see us creatives.

Yeah.

Munilipe, you know. Minas. It's it's a seda, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Minas said um but yeah we should know your wife.

Absolutely.

Be authentic. And please embrace the fact there is money in this industry.

Yeah.

This is a multi-billion dollar industry.

Yeah.

And I feel like we are not in the era of gatekeeping anymore. So I won't shy from telling people,

yeah,

there is money in this space, right?

There's wealth to be made.

But then I always tell someone, you know, your billion might be my million. My million might be your shilling.

Yeah.

So you really need to know when you're saying you're creating wealth, how does wealth look like? Is it in terms of money? Is it peace of mind? Is it you living in a farm?

Correct.

How how how are you?

That's mine.

Me too, right?

Yeah.

A farm.

Yeah.

So I don't want to come and tell people kunama dollars upa because you know that can also cost you your peace of mind.

Correct.

Um, one of the best things I love to say is please. Don't neglect this part so much. By the time you are reaching your goal, your mental state is gone.

Yeah,

you get it. So as you are creating, know what's enough for me, because I feel like it's a competition out there. If Lynn has a million subscribers, I have

to be there.

I have to be there. Like, where's the finish line? What's the price?

Yeah, what's the price?

Because again, as we were saying, your grace is not my grace.

Yeah.

You, you are blessed differently. You move differently. Your vision is different from mine.

Yeah.

So as you create, because the money is there, but you also have to ask yourself, what's good money to me?

Me,

I think I'm in my era of I'm grateful where I am in terms of finances.

Yeah.

But I also know that this is not the end goal for me. The end goal is a farm, a beautiful family, Quiet

in the

podcast studio. Yeah,

Kanye West music.

Yep, Kanye West music, or me and my J. Cole right there, and we move on. So to answer Cliff,

yeah,

I think I would tell creatives, yeah, but you also need to know when it comes to the digital platform, how do you arrive at the monetary figures. I feel people don't understand the power of algorithm. They don't understand what watch time means. They don't take their analytics very seriously.

Okay.

And I feel like that informs all the decisions you might make. Interact with your audience, go through the comments, find out what are they saying, take their recommendations seriously, and also understand how do I really make money off YouTube. People confuse views to money.

Yeah.

Like if today I put out a video with 1 million views, someone will think that's 1 million in my pocket.

Ah.

You get it? It's not. They don't understand where a video gets watched. They don't understand the watch time plays a key, uh—

Hey, tell us about it.

There you go. So before you create—

Getting to that end of the bar.

Yeah, you see, if you come and put 2 mics together and start having a conversation, and then tomorrow you think that will be good money for you, if you don't understand the backlog things. Yeah, I feel like I tell people, this show, for me, the shows I put on my platform, that's the 10%. The research we've done, the due diligence, the algorithms, us going through feedback, analyzing where are we right now as a network, is the 90%. And that's the work majority of people don't want to do.

So people are just seeing Lynn Gugi arriving. Yeah, but behind her is like 10,000 people.

Yeah,

and a lot of work that has gone into it. And I think a lot of people And, and that's a thing as well, building your support system, figuring out them— I mean, doing the work. And a lot of people shy away from that, and it's, and it's quite involving. I think we get a taste of that as well, where we're just like, yo.

And you know, podcasting now is very attractive.

Oh yeah.

As long as you got this mic

and a

good

phone and cameras, let's make content.

Absolutely. There is more than enough for everyone.

We were talking the other day and we said 97% of creators who are in this podcast space.

Yeah,

they drop out after the 3rd episode, 3rd or 4th episode. 3rd episode.

Wow.

Many creatives will drop off podcasts after the 3rd episode because their expectations— Hey, hey.

Ground me different.

Well, I'm so glad we tempered our expectations.

Expectations. Yeah, you will put your show there, you will get your good 80 views.

And you know that's your your whole family.

My yeah, that you shared on WhatsApp. You've even told your grandma. Grandma, as long as I can circulate it

to the church

group. You've even formed ten email addresses so you can watch in a phone. You're watching like twenty twenty views in Izako. Absolutely. And the number of views you keep refreshing. Yeah, because after every half an hour you are there. So honestly, 50% of those views are your views, and that's where a lot of people— you, it's tough, it's tough out here. Expectations. And you know where the expectations— it's because you don't want to do the ikazi. Yeah, the understanding why, what kind of content. I've seen people break through after their 20th episode, their 30th episode. That's where you're enjoying your 10K views. But if you created from a point of authenticity Once the luck hits you, those people will come back to your channel to watch. Okay, what did I miss? What did I miss? So if you don't know how the whole game plays, you'll come here, one episode, okay, 2, 3, you'll give up. It's a wrap. It's a wrap.

And you know, the funny thing is I'm so glad we crafted our why. I think because that, that probably keeps us going as well. So you're absolutely right, knowing your why is so important. Um, because even when things are not going the way you want them to, you're just like, listen, it's okay, let's keep going.

Know your why.

Know your why.

And then, because again, as I said, this is a very lucrative business, ask yourself, am I good with money?

That's a good question.

In my network, I don't handle money. Why? I know I'm not good.

You will sink the ship.

The number, the number of times I've been called in a meeting I'm sure, I'm sure Joshua's team, Valerie and Mutanga, they'll watch this. The number of times they actually pay a ten K. Why? You know, you'll be. You'll just bump into a situation. Val, please send ten K to this number. Oh boy! You gotta know. Am I?

Yeah.

Am I the money expert?

Yeah.

Because if you don't do that, you you will wait for your AdSense revenue kakujja. I have my trickling, my friend,

trickling

you. And then because the money comes around 21st, 22nd, I don't know if that happens for you guys.

We are praying for providence.

Yes, and watch time. Let's be clear,

guys, please watch this video. We gotta monetize this channel, guys, please. That's the legacy we leave here. Watch. Okay, it comes around 21st, 22nd. My friend, by 28th, you are broke. You are broke.

Yeah.

So understand, this is a business. Again, is it a business? Yeah. Because if it's a business, I struggled with structures a lot.

Yeah.

I think the greatest business mistake I ever made was lack of structures. I worked with everybody and nobody— like, I was just like left, right, and center. I'm the OG, I'm the CEO, I'm this and this, and I'm paying for my—

And the CFO?

My friend. Even if I will do HR, I would be the HR, you know. Even if comma HR, I knew. Yeah, actually I was the HR.

You're hiring and firing, disciplined.

Then because you are on the creative side, you are like, hey, you don't know. Excuse me, your job ends here. And be okay with that. Be okay with having other people who are experts do what you can't do, because then they give you room to create, and it's beautiful. That's the greatest blessing I have.

You're the visionary, you're the creative.

I am now there. For me, I am more of No, I'm good. I don't even care, was rent paid, were salaries paid, were statutory paid? I don't.

Yeah,

but when it comes to creating, also be okay with other people holding you accountable. So yeah.

Okay, so, so now you're running a proper business?

I am now, after 2, 2 years, 2 years of bad decision.

Bad decisions.

How many videos later? 2,000, right?

No, see, it's a lot.

Wait,

but

that's a lot of—

Maybe, maybe over 400 videos later.

Oh yeah?

Because now at our platform we are at 500, we are approaching 600 videos.

Okay.

But last year, that's now at LNN. Yeah, I know collectively I'm going to my 3,000. Videos collectively, including my previous. But again, there is no shame in admitting I suck at this. Could you guide me? Could you help me?

Yeah.

Could you point me towards the right

direction?

And also, don't beat yourself too hard because of the mistakes you made.

I mean, you're probably never going to make them again.

No.

And you've corrected them along the way.

The hard way. The hard way. Yeah. Because I would be

having my G wagon. But here, here we are, business mistakes.

No regrets, just lessons learned.

Yeah.

So, so, so what I'm hearing you say, number one, find people who can run the business better than you. Number 2, build a community.

Yeah,

yeah.

I would also say internal and external community.

Yeah,

yeah,

internal and external, right? There's something that you mentioned about taking a break. Mental health.

Yeah.

What does that look like for you? And I know we talk about it a lot nowadays. Sometimes I wonder, is it that we were not talking about it? Was it always there, or is it now it has more spotlight than it used to before?

Mental illness or just mental

rest?

Mental health.

Okay.

Yeah,

we can even start at rest.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, me, I don't blame people who haven't gotten there yet because sometimes—

You want to arrive alive.

Yes, but I insist, arrive alive.

Yeah.

Arrive

alive.

Alive.

Yeah.

I had really dark days.

Oh, really?

Yeah. I come from shoot the whole day. Sometimes you've even done 3 shoots. You can barely sleep because the other shoot is tomorrow. By 7, you need to be seated waiting for the guests, you know, and that, that takes a toll on you. Actually—

Waiting for the guests?

Yes.

Yeah, we know.

You see, you see the way National Park is here.

Yeah.

We have never gone to National— I had never gone to National Park. National Park.

Yeah.

Until that awakening moment came. Lynn, you see, again, we don't know how to separate passion. Sometimes we feel like because we are taking a break from passion, we are not doing right by the passion. And you have to understand, it's okay. In Italy, I was watching a movie and they have this thing, the sweetness of doing nothing. Like, I was watching some women there, they are sitting at Ivico Market. They come there every day, kupiga story. They have their 2 bottles of wine. And the gentleman was like, so these people just come and sit here the whole day? And I was like, no, in Italy we have the sweetness of doing nothing. Wow. Please normalize.

As an African mom, I'm like, oh, what is that?

We must do the work. If you, you told— and this is the problem we have, because again I say it starts somewhere.

Yeah.

As a child, you wake up, if you are being taken by a school bus, you have to be in the bus at 5:30.

Yep.

Please tell your mom, today I ain't feeling it, I think I want to sleep until 11. I used to see my Sister on weekends sleep until eleven or twelve, and I was like, "Shiko, how lazy are you? Shiko, can you wake up?" You know, like now I realize Shiko had cracked this thing a long time ago. You know, and I'm telling you because me I'm the hard worker. I'll do the dishes, the kitchen. Atakitandan tatandikati amelalapa. I can even tandika this and that. So she wakes up and feels the shame of how lazy. Yeah, she was.

Yeah,

but now I'm like, kumbexi cracked it a long time ago. And you know what that does? That, you know, you release the tension, you release the pressure. Because sometimes what we say is anxiety or depression, it's just you've been tired and you need to rest. Yeah, and you need to breathe fresh air, do something else. Because just because hosting— I love my job, but Now rest to me looks like one week of no shoots.

Okay.

And being— me being okay with knowing I'm a couple of videos behind, but I want to arrive alive.

Yeah.

Being honest with how I have so much noises in my head, man. I'm so— I, I don't feel creative right now, you know, because when you also create when you are not feeling it, you create a lot of nonsense. And those are the regrets later on. There are shows I've done because I was tensed. I needed to put something out.

And?

Because I don't want to be behind, because there are goals I've set for myself that are not realistic. You get it? But now, first I create out of rest. I first make sure I'm resting enough. You know, I used to even shoot at At 8, I had my first guest. I told the team, me, my call time now is 10. Why? I'm enjoying the morning sleep a lot.

Yeah.

I'm enjoying going to the shower at 8:30, 9. I'm enjoying waking up and just, oh God, you get it? So it's a shocker to them because I'm an early morning person. But just because I'm an early morning person does not mean I have to have this show

Yeah,

right now. So it's again, we have been

conditioned,

institutionalized, and we won't arrive alive.

No,

no,

no, we were curated to be government workers.

Do you know, can I say this? My mom used to say when we slept in,

yeah,

she'd be like, a whole nation is being built and you people are sleeping here.

Maybe you

should do one of those things for tell us what your parents used to say because it's, hey, you're Yeah, why you like sleep was a crime?

It was a crime.

Yeah.

Now I find myself at a million hands a short time.

Your sister arrived before you.

She arrived.

She's welcoming you into the rest. Okay.

So sometimes me, I acknowledge our struggles with mental health, but I love that we are having conversations around it. But let's embrace rest. There's so much you can do in a peaceful mind.

Yeah.

There's so much you can do. So much you can do.

When you're doing this thing, how much responsibility are you feeling for the weight that you're carrying, if at all you feel like it's a weight?

No, I don't.

You don't?

No, no, no, no.

But what responsibility do you put on yourself in terms of the content that you put out?

Am I being authentic?

Okay.

I think that's the greatest responsibility. As I've told you,

yeah,

I've created from pressure before.

Yeah.

And because it's in a very chaotic environment, you forget your authenticity in the process.

Yeah.

So I always now have to ask myself, am I feeling this? Yeah. Am I feeling— yeah.

Just go deeper in terms of— I think when we met with you, with Wago, over coffee, was the content you put out.

Yeah.

To some quarters. Yeah. Or to some people is very interesting content. Yeah. Right, in terms of it speaks against what we've known, it's changing perception.

Yeah.

It is challenging norms, systems that have been put there for a long time. It touches on nerves, right? And whatever social structure or political— whatever structure we put for ourselves, I don't know, do you sleep well at night knowing like, hey, listen, I don't care, I put out the best that I could and you do Are you ever afraid that there will be, you know, the way we always threaten consequences?

They go murder me. Abductions.

Yeah.

You know, how can I say this? I feel first I'm not afraid.

Okay.

That's just to put it out there. But just because I'm not afraid does not mean I'm not responsible.

Correct.

There are people I can't meet. They are called psychantic.

Okay,

there are places I can't be in because I know, yeah, you are dealing with animals, you know.

Yeah,

but all in all, the awakening— and this is now where I love the woke culture— is also in realizing we die once. Not lightly. Not lightly.

Yeah.

But

once

we die— once,

correct?

We die once.

Yeah.

But we live for so many years.

Yeah.

But you die

once.

Once. I can tell you for free what the power-hungry elites in this system counted on.

Yeah.

Was our fear.

And silence.

And silence. Yeah. They really, really banked on our fear and silence. And the fact that you can't challenge a system.

Yeah.

You can't talk about— like now it was so hard to say, must go, must go.

Yeah.

I don't know if you are sure you're allowed to say, must go, must go, but I still—

Listen, you're here.

Yeah.

If it's must go, it's must go.

Yeah, must go, must go. And it's not because of must go, it's because there's something wrong you're doing that is going to affect generations. When we met for coffee, I think we spoke briefly on Wangari Maathai.

Yeah.

And how her whole ideology and how she conducted herself, we were made to view her as—

A villain.

This dramatic lunatic.

Yeah.

This woman is the reason our government is not performing. What are you saying? You've gone to undress? Don't you have class? And we viewed that as a very Pathetic thing, you know.

Yeah.

But look at us right now. We are ready to do ten times worse than she did because we understand what's at stake here.

Exactly.

You know, and I say the middle class of Kenya are the biggest problem we have in this country because they are the people who don't know where they are. They are either do I fight this? Is it my problem? Yeah. Is it not my problem? You get it. But Wangor. So if all of us live in fear and all of us are like, whatever is happening right now is not our problem, our kids are telling us, this is our problem. Them as kids, they already know, this is our problem. And then you with your grown-up age, you're okay looking at your nephew. I'm a millennial. In a couple of years, my nephew and my niece, they'll be the alphas. And then I also have— parents who have the Gen Zs, etc.

Yeah,

but we are looking at them, wanting them to go to war for us.

Yeah,

because we are scared. Look at the people we lost during the protests.

Correct.

What's their age bracket?

Yeah,

that's why.

Under 30.

Under 30s, under 25s. Very, very young.

Tell me, as a nation, yeah, we are okay? Like, when did it Where to live? I'm happy that us, when we were growing up, we knew our fathers were going to war. We knew our grandparents are the people they tell us about the Mau Mau.

Yeah,

we have great-grandparents who we can say these were the Mau Mau. Never did they expect for their children to go to war. We've become so comfortable in this nation that we are okay. We are so scared that we are okay for our children to go to war for us. Please tell me this. Tell me that's okay. That's not okay.

It's not.

That's not okay. He took our parents and us, the millennials, the third or fourth protests for them to start saying, "And you know what these young guys are doing is right." Yeah. The first me have been in all the protests. The first one?

Yeah.

Yada. The second one? The one we lost so many people.

June twenty fifth.

Twenty fifth. Oh my God! Full of young people. When did we become so comfortable? Yes, tau kwezi kujoa because the protests are ongoing. But we are comfortable as being at home and letting our children go to work.

It was tough. I mean, yeah.

I fear. I know some maybe I'll finish this conversation and I won't walk out of here alive.

Yeah.

But if that's the price. price,

yeah,

that we have to pay,

yeah,

then let's pay that price.

Yeah,

yeah.

And you know, when you talk about the middle class, I think it's important. I remember we had this conversation about we need to start organizing now, um, in order for us to build a base for 2027. And it can't be the Gen Zs going on the streets and spilling their blood, their blood all the time. And I find that middle class has the ability to even resonate deeper They work in corporates, they work in parastatals. They are able to give— make the message clear in one way or another, but that makes them uncomfortable. That means I might lose my job. But are we okay with not losing our jobs? We should be.

But you see, they're also the reason us, the millennials, with around 8 million Kenyans did not vote last time, right? Majority of those were obviously the Gen Zs. We put these people in power. When it comes to holding ourselves accountable, why do we want the people who never participated to be the ones going to war for us? Our generations and the generations before ours—they don't like holding themselves accountable. I

agree.

No.

Yeah.

That's that's like every other family. Just sweep things under the rug. Keep quiet.

It will pass. Yeah. Onto the next. Yeah. Why do I care? But Your children are unemployed. They are going through a mental health crisis. They don't know where to go tomorrow.

Correct.

They don't know what to do with their lives. I think the drugs, uh,

the rate

of consumption,

yeah,

has increased greatly.

Even the types of drugs available.

They are vaping nicely. They know which one to go for, etc. So you as a parent You are okay with that being the future of you. I refuse to exist in a country that sends its young people to war for a mistake we committed. We need to be at the forefront, righting the wrongs we made. Majority of us voted for this government. When it comes to getting it out of power, why do I have to rely on my nephew and my niece?

You want to delegate your mistakes?

No. Yeah,

no,

that needs to shift drastically.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm loving— I guess that is where collectively, if you look at how— because I like talking entrepreneurship as well— if, if you look at them, we might not even have a market for the things we are selling.

Thank you.

Right. We— I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm listening to you and I'm like, actually, the— and one of the things, I mean, I've been interacting with some guy who's absolutely trying to change the psyche around ownership of business in Africa. Africa. And you can just tell we have been slightly undereducated, right? Everything just seems

intentionally—

intention— everything just seems to be, to be, to be lower. I'll tell you one of the things I was learning, and I hope we can have him on the show, was—

Who is that, by the way?

Some guy called Dr. Omar Kubilani. I hope, I hope he does come on. One of the things we were talking about is he was telling us, anyway, look at the South African companies. Act, not the 2015 one, the 1970-something. Our Companies Act, I think— I don't know when it came into play— sets out how companies operate and stuff. If you go to the South African one, which was the one for apartheid, systematically sets out how these guys can grow their wealth, right? Around if it's L&N, you must patent, you must trademark, Right? It's very interesting how even when I see some of the stuff that you're putting out is around shaping policy and shaping laws, because some of the— some of our laws are terrible, right? Um, in terms of how they've been structured as well. And that's why you're talking about, um, I don't know, you guys want to tax— wants a digital tax, but they haven't understood them. I mean, what they're taxing, they don't understand, and they're not even creating an enabling policy environment for that thing to, uh, to, to thrive. And I think when I look at some of your stories in terms of what they're doing, which is transforming perception, minds, um, putting out your voice out there so that we can shift it— you're right, we, we should take it, take it on as our responsibility to, to wrong the rights— to, to right the wrongs that we are seeing and put our voices in there, because there's a lot Those things you're talking about are political, and we must fix our politics for there to be thriving businesses and thriving entrepreneurship as well. But because our system has been rigged in such a way, or deliberately, intentionally not been allowed to create opportunities for all of us, we will continue to suffer in the long run.

Yeah, I'm in agreement.

Yeah, I have a question for you. So where do you see LNN 5 years from now? Is it something I know, right? I'm like, so I mean all this where you seen, and by the way it's fine because I remember you talking you're just like listen merely for today tomorrow will take care of itself.

I know.

But what is this thing that you're creating and where do you see it going? Oh, oh you don't and you're fine with that and it's okay.

Very fine because I know the other version of in five years I want to do this. I don't have anything. Against anyone that sets goals.

Absolutely. Yeah,

I'm good. Yeah, it's obviously highly recommended. Personally, I don't.

Yeah,

because I think as I'm trying to connect my dots and my steps, yeah, I've realized me, we don't live for the present. We are too obsessed

with the future,

with the future,

what could be

with the future. So I've put a temporary stop stop at thinking, where do I want to be in 5 years? Where will Elenin be in 5 years? If it's better, I'm playing my part to make it better. I don't envision it being worse.

Yeah.

Because as I said, the foundation is authenticity. But also, if I lose my way in the process,

yeah,

I need to be okay that the 5 years didn't turn out the way I wanted them to turn out. There's so much joy now, I'm realizing, That if you live in the present, you enjoy so much that's happening. Me, I don't wanna do what was done unto us. Please go to school. I'm putting you in this school so that you can get a job, get this job, then start supporting your family, etc. I wanna be okay with today because again, Cliff, as we've said, na leyo God aki amwa, sileyo ndiyonataka mukam home.

Yeah. Yeah.

You get it?

Yeah.

I, I love people who have visions, but I've been there before. It didn't serve me any good. Yeah, I know Habakkuk 2:2 says write your vision down.

Yeah.

You get it? But he didn't say write your vision down and then give it 5 years. What's my tomorrow's vision? What's my today's vision? How does that look like?

Yeah.

He didn't say write it and then give it 10 years and 5 years, because what happens if after 5 years I'm not what I said on this true.

Yeah,

I'll be so disappointed.

Yeah,

I'll beat myself up.

Yeah,

and I won't get the confidence again to say 5 years, this is what I wanted to. So me, I live for the present right now. Yeah.

But I want to push it further.

Go on.

What is this Africa that you, you desire? Because I feel, you know, when Wangari Maathai was kind of in the state of undress— apparently, yes, apparently I had the state of undress is an ultimate it like, um, protest. You being undressed is actually the biggest—

yeah,

um, act. Yeah,

of protest.

Yes. Wangari was surely dreaming of a future that she didn't end up living in. But for you, when you think about what keeps Lean driving

in terms of

Africa and the narrative

that

you're playing into,

the realization that collectively our Our today's our yesterday, our tomorrow— today's will be our

tomorrow.

You get it? The realization that we don't have time. We don't. When Wangari— and I love that you've said she dreamt of something she didn't get to see— but if you go back to her story, she showed up every single day to fight for something.

Yeah.

She didn't say in 5 years, in 10 years. Every single day you would hear of that woman.

Correct.

See her actively participating in what she believed in. My dream for Africa is where Cliff, as you've said, us realizing that all the changes happen before we— you know, sometimes we say this government did this. Which role did we play sending those MPs in Parliament? Many people don't even realize that all the laws that are going on in this country Those are the people at the forefront of introducing a bill, voting. You see them all. I, eh, I, eh. They are all over there. But you took—

we must fix our politics to prosper.

We took musicians who have used ghostwriters to Parliament.

You're right. It hurts to hear that.

You know, we took people who use ghostwriters for their music in parliament.

Wow!

Or somebody who is caught on video shooting somebody.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Put some points on that. You get it?

Yeah.

What do you expect?

Sure.

What law? Ah, any ambi ukweli. What law do you expect that person to pass in your favor?

Yeah, we must do better for sure.

We must do better. So I'm going to answer you. My tomorrow's Africa is this Africa right now, because I might not be able to see my tomorrow's Africa.

Yeah,

but today I have to show up on this podcast. Yeah, and I have to remind people that we have power.

Yeah,

and when we lose our fear, they lose their power. Look at Sankara. I was actually— I'm really interested in him right now, so I'm watching and learning a lot. And we were just watching him and we realized he died quite young.

Yeah,

too young.

Too young. But from at the age of 17, he was actively participating towards the change of his nation.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's, it's crazy how many— to be honest, if you look at any African voice that has come up that has been nipped at their prime. Sankara, Patrice Lumumba. I mean, the list goes on, and it's a very— it is a very unfortunate thing. And then actually what's more unfortunate is the story of the people who betrayed them, actually the ones who—

In power.

Come to power and stay for the longest. And you wonder, I mean, you should ask yourself how. Yeah. And you know, I mean, we all know what their stories in there are.

I feel like Sankara planted seeds in a garden he'll never see. And one of his seeds was Traoré. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Um, some of those things will never die. Yeah, same to Patrice.

And that's why it's Burkina Faso, Burkina Faso, Burkina Faso. Yeah, for example, that's coming up.

Yeah, because the way they say, when you plant a tree, do you want that tree to grow in 20 years so you can sit on that shade?

No, you must plant.

You are planting for the next person and the next generation.

And that's what all of us are doing. Absolutely.

Yeah, let's the spirit of Gen Zs. Yes, they showed up.

Yeah,

knowing very well I might be the one who won't make it home, but they showed up.

Yeah.

I don't think we appreciate how significant that was for us as well. And

no, we are too—

and we must, we must lend our voices and we must tell our stories.

Plus, we are too entitled.

I'm just looking at the time and I'm just like, oh my God, where did it go? We can sit here for a long time. Yeah. You can answer this the way you want because I wanted— because having you here is pretty cool. In your stories, one story you will never forget and why? I know you have many babies in there

and

that's okay too. And then any young creator looking at you here who has a phone and a dream, like what would— I know you don't give advice, but Lean, what would you say to them?

Yeah,

yeah. I think I want to hear your thoughts on that. Just

stories, all of them,

all of them. Of course, yeah, it's

like a mom. I love all my children.

No, but facts, facts on facts. Okay, all of them. Yeah, I think every story, regardless of it's a marriage, divorce, conservancies, politics, traore.

Yeah,

someone leaves something.

Yeah,

in you. So I love, I love them. I, I think I, I remember all the stories I've done.

Yeah.

Uh, and also, uh, very grateful to people like Modekai and Baria Wambaria for just being part of these conversations. DJ Buakali.

Yeah.

So many people who every time I take my phone and I'm like, hey, I, I feel like I want to have this conversation, how is your schedule? They're like, Lynn, let me know.

Say less. Say when.

Say when.

Yeah.

You get it?

Yeah.

And they travel sometimes far just to be in studio.

Yeah.

Saying, I love all my stories equally. The effort with my guests, yeah, it's, it's really beautiful.

Okay,

advice I would give, it's the same thing I tell myself: Lynn, you're enough.

Oh, that's amazing.

If you have your phone and your camera, don't tremble too much. I say sometimes, especially to creatives, you want to Shoot ten things and put them on draft, so you analyze which one did I do good. You know, you you want people to consume the perfect content.

Yeah.

Sometimes I tell people put it out there in its rawest authentic form.

Yeah.

That's what the audience are looking for. Mini kifanya intro kwa show. Adang yangguan nanzaku cheka. You know, nanzaku cheka. Because I'm like, see me in my truest, rawest version.

Yeah.

So I feel like if you are creative— I'm very passionate about creatives because I know this is an industry where everyone wants to milk.

Yeah.

But they don't understand the mental strain, the anguish.

Yeah.

That comes, goes into it. So I feel like if you are a creator— it's joy, good— if you are a creative, don't wait to put that idea that you think is perfect out Film yourself and put it out there.

Yeah,

as long as you do it and the brands and the sponsors, everyone else

build it, they'll come.

You build the rest.

Yeah,

I have one thing.

Absolutely.

I remember there's this guy I saw where he'd been putting content out on YouTube, but he probably was getting like 10 views. He knew the views were his grandmother and his mom. Yeah, but what he didn't know was that one of those views was Oprah. Oprah, and Oprah really loved his work, and he got to work with Oprah. Wow. Um, so it's not the views that open doors for you. I mean, it's not the number of views that open doors for you, it's the people that watch.

And you never know who is watching when you're being

authentic.

You never know who is watching.

It can be abductors watching, but also Oprah watching.

Yeah, and God watching. Like, he'll come abducting me and there'll be thunder.

This is one of those where I'm just like, it doesn't need

Let it end now.

It didn't end, but oh gosh, we we are so grateful for your time. Yeah. Um, and this has been pretty cool. Yeah.

Yeah. For me too.

Yeah. You really are a light.

I hope so.

You are.

Yeah. Keep shining.

Keep shining.

This has been pretty cool.

Ah, really loved this.

Yeah.

It's the first interview I've done in a minute.

Thank you. Yeah. We feel so special.

Yeah. And if we have any Lingugi fans that are Watching, come through, subscribe so they know we were here.

We already subscribed, what else can we do?

No, my, my people, yeah, you're about to check out, like, just, just show them some love. They know we, uh, we landed. Yeah, yeah, but I appreciate you.

Yes, absolutely. And, uh, yeah, for all our guys out there, subscribe, like, um, we want to put out more stuff. We have a few things lined up as well, and we can't wait. Go to our LinkedIn and read our articles we've been writing around Africa, Africa systems as well. Just see what we are putting out. And we are so grateful. Thank you so much.

Yeah, God bless you.

God bless you. It is a wrap.

It's a wrap.