An Indepth Look At Growing Japanese Black Pine Bonsai From Cuttings And Seed

I'm here today in the garden of Vinay, who's been doing some absolutely amazing work with pines. I think many of you will have seen his posts on social media. Vinay's traveled the world, it seems, meeting masters and learning techniques. And where he's kind of gone crazy is with Japanese black pines, and he's really building up quite a an authority in the UK here, how to develop these trees simply from cuttings in a very, very short amount of time. So Vinay, this is as an example, this is a cutting taken just—

Yeah, this is a seedling cutting. When I say cutting, it is seedling cutting because when the seed Seedling is around four weeks old. We make a cut with a razor, and when we make a cut with a razor, it produces roots. This was the concept I have not developed. This was developed by a Japanese bonsai master.

So you cut the roots off, the initial roots off, yeah, and then start a fresh nebari.

A fresh nebari, yeah. With this particular one, what happened was the roots were so bad even after. cutting once, twice, it was just throwing very badly.

You weren't getting the radial roots.

I was not getting the radial roots. So that's why what happened was I thought, you know, I've got a rock and this is a rock, sandstone rock, which sucks water. So I just planted it on the top of it and tied with the wire. So it did grow well and I think it is loving the rock because the rock itself sucks water. It's the only rock in the world which sucks water. So that's why it is loving it and that's why it is Thriving into it.

Now, this is something that I've noticed even in the UK, and we were talking earlier, is this idea that Japanese black pines are incredibly thirsty in this country.

Yes.

And through the growing season, you want to be watering it really heavily. You don't want to be withdrawing water like you would with a white pine. This is almost a street tree, isn't it, in almost tropical areas? Japan.

Absolutely, because Japanese black pine, uh, they grow near the seashore. So, you know, the 3 pines are there in Japan: Japanese black pine, Japanese red pine, and Japanese white pine. So Japanese black pine is near the seashore, so they love a lot of humidity. And one fundamental factor is in this country we have hard water. Japanese black pine Can thrive in hard water.

Ah, I understand. Right.

They are near the seashore. They get all the time salty.

So calcium is something they actually require.

Yes, yes. Right. And why they are double flush pines? Because what happens in Japan? Because they are on the.

Do you believe that there are double flush pine in the UK?

Yes. Yeah. They are indeed. Because the UK weather. is, I consider, a temperate weather. It's temperate. I mean, of course, recently the weather changed a lot, but why there are double flushes? Because in Japan, what happens on the seashore, the moment in the spring the new candles appear, there was a heavy wind, and that heavy wind breaks the candle. So plant has evolved over a period of time to know how to survive, so they throw the second flush.

Ah, it's evolved to cope with the damage that will come from the the spring winds.

Yeah.

And then recover and put out an undamaged flush.

Similarly, it happens to red pine, but red pines are little bit higher on the altitude.

Yes.

It also happens with them, but white pine is absolutely on the top of the mountain, so there is no concept of double flush for white pine.

Yeah, they've evolved completely differently.

So that's why you can never treat a Japanese white pine and Japanese black pine same because their requirements are completely different.

So let's, let's talk about, um, something that we've been seeing your posts on Facebook is this ability you seem to have to take cuttings, remove the roots off pines, and then grow a new set of roots. So if we have a look at the, the cuttings that you've taken this year We're talking now in July. Most pines started moving in May of this year.

Yes.

And we'll show people how they can start taking cuttings. And yeah, so this is— these are the cuttings from this year, the current year's cuttings.

Yes, these are the current year's cuttings. And the way I do it is the moment the seedling is around 24 days to or 30 days old, when they turn bit purplish, I take a razor blade and I remove the entire root system, and then I dip it into a rooting hormone. Typically I use a gel which is quite— Clonex, we call it in the UK— and I dip it. The most important part at this point of time is— So the most important part is when you do a seedling cutting, you need to use an inorganic media. And that inorganic media I use is— I tried different sort of inorganic medias. I tried akadama, I tried pumice, I tried even lava rock. I used fines of that. The best thing which works is perlite for propagation. Perlite has been used for, you know, all the nurserymen have been using perlite for successful propagation.

It's a very traditional— Yeah.

It don't have any pathogens, to be honest, and pathogens don't thrive in perlite. Uh, you add peat to it because peat is the one which holds them together and which provides a bit of moisture. Because straight perlite, you water them, it dries in 1 hour's time.

Um, the Bucephalandra is a Japanese black pine, they love the moisture.

Yeah, but that's what I use, inorganic media, which gives me Almost now nearly 100% success.

So, so what you're looking at is in UK in May we will get extensions of the buds into candles. Yeah. And then the candles will reach a certain stage, which means you're explaining to me is this is this is. The first— this year's growth, as the needles start to open, then you cut into the hardwood at the base, and that is your cutting.

Yeah, yeah, that is that. So now the second part comes is because right now I explained the seedling cutting. I also do the cuttings because one of the things which I believe in— don't waste anything. So if I cut this, the top off, and I throw it, it's of No use. What I use is I cut it and then I put a rooting hormone again.

So it's just below where there were buds and where the candles emerge. You cut that woody part.

Yeah, you need to make sure that the needles have hardened. If the needles are soft, they are still in energy deficient mode. They are taking up energy rather than producing energy for the tree.

And that's the timing.

That's the timing of the hormonal exchange, because once they are hardened, the needles are hardened They produce, then they become energy, you know, generator.

Yeah, cutting is actually ready to produce new roots as well. Absolutely, absolutely.

I will show you examples of where I got successful cuttings, and those cuttings are more vigorous than original seedling cuttings.

Now you're using, um, some kind of rooting hormone as well? Yes, for—

yeah, I use Clonex.

The gel, Clonex gel. And that's—

you've had the best success with that, which has got, you know, the proper chemical hormone.

I mean, these, for cuttings that were made literally, what, 4 months ago?

Yeah, 4 months ago.

Yeah, these are amazing and they are so healthy. Yeah. And now this is one of the things that I find exciting about Vinnie's work is He's getting— creating so many trees just from cuttings, just from material that you might prune off a larger Japanese black pine, even in a park or gardens. So if we have a look at the, the next stage where trees that are in their second growing season, yeah, um, and look at some of those examples.

Yeah, sure.

So you've now given us, um, a couple of examples here of pines that you propagated last year. They're in their second growing season, but actually it's only around a year since you, you took them as cuttings. And instantly looking at something like this, it's crazy that this is just a second season cutting. You're getting some amazing results, but I will let you explain exactly what you're doing here, Vinay. So what you're explaining is this was actually a seed that you germinated and it grew and then When the seedling was three or four weeks old, you cut all the roots off, and you you've obtained such an amazing nebari using that technique. But that is a seedling cutting, therefore, whereas this is simply a cutting from the top of the new extending growth, and that's different. So they're both cuttings. Taken last year, but one's a seedling cutting, the other is a cutting off the top of the tree.

I've just tried to expose the roots of, uh, just to show the audience that how the nebari is good, very well formed in a cutting compared to a seedling cutting. I'm not discouraging that seedling cutting is bad, but if you want to achieve greater results in short period of time, I think cuttings works Much better than the seedling cutting, but nevertheless both have a very good nebari.

Now I think at this point we've got these these trees that are have some sacrificial growth left on them, and then we actually have some of the formative branches when the tree is an actual bonsai. Can you explain the process of deciding which shoots to allow to grow and which shoots you want to keep relatively small and close to the bottom of the trunk, because it's important to make these decisions very, very early in the process.

Absolutely. So that's, that's a very important point, Harry. Always in pine, these are— first you have to think that how tall or how big a tree you want. All these trees which I'm training are Targeted to be a Shohin size tree. They are not targeted to be a big size tree.

So 8 inch or below? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So the most important point, uh, after the nebari is the taper. The taper is very important. If you go to any, any exhibition, you will see the most attractive trees which is having a good root base and a taper. Then you— your eye goes into the branching. So similarly, we try to make first the root structure, and then we try to thicken up the base. Not like randomly, we want to thicken up the base in a tapered form. And the only livers you have with pine is the sacrificial branches, which should be at a different point, different height. And one of the leaders, you let it grow as a sacrificial branch. Now in this one, we are looking at the example of a real cutting. which is not a seedling cutting. In this real cutting, if you look at the avenues of the number of buds are very limited because since it is a cutting, it is not a seedling cutting. Only in seedling cutting you get a lot of buds at the base.

Right.

That is the advantage of seedling cutting, that lot of buds are there. But in a cutting you get very limited buds. So obviously my target for this one is not to have a small tree. So as I mentioned, the The number of buds in a cutting is very limited. We don't get much buds, and that's the reason we can't really make a small tree. We can make a small tree, but it will not be beautiful. So here my target is bigger than the Shohin size tree. And right now I have created a lovely nebari with a cutting, and I am going to let this leader grow as far as it can, and I am going to treat the right side branch as my main trunk. So So this is sacrificial branch.

So your final bonsai will actually be— if I can pull this back—

Yeah.

Up this line, and this side is the sacrificial side.

This side is the sacrificial. And I'm going to train this in the ground.

Ah.

Because I want to achieve a bigger size tree. Unless you don't put in the ground, you will not going to get a very thick base.

Yes.

And that's the technique which I learned in Taiwan. This is how they do it. They are having relatively, if I give one example, I have been to Taiwan 2 times. Once then my friend took me to their field where they were growing Japanese black pine, and the amount of sacrificial branches— here we think of, you know, couple of feet, they talk in couple of meters as a sacrifice branch. The turns and twists they give.

So this side will really elongate and get I get to 10 foot, but this is still kept very, very short.

And I will keep on shaping this and, you know.

So making sure you put some movement into the—

Yes.

The trunk line while you can.

Yeah.

And ensuring that there's plenty of health but also potential new branches.

Yes. So I'm going to wire this portion and I'm going to give exaggerated twists and turns because The moment it becomes thicker, obviously the turns will not be that effective.

Yes, you start to lose the turns.

That's the reason, that's my learning from Taiwan, that how to achieve a great tree within a short span of time. So my target is in 10 years' time, this would be almost 70-80% complete. Then I will work on the refinement part. So I am hoping in 15 years' time, I will have a proper bonsai tree in the UK grown from a cutting.

Yes, that's fantastic. So you've now bought in these 2 amazing black pines that are 3 and a half years old.

3 and a half to 4 years old.

Are they from seedling cuttings or cuttings?

They are from seedling cuttings because I only explored, uh, cuttings avenue only last year. Last 1.5 years I was trying to, you know, experiment with cuttings, and I said, okay, wow, cuttings are working now. But before that, obviously I started with seedling cuttings, and, uh, this one particular is almost 3.5 to 4 years old.

Can we hold this up? Because it's incredible. If we can show it to camera, but also show the, the bottom of the pot. Incredible amount of rooting literally through the pot. It's actually going gangbusters, this tree. It's quite difficult to see how thick it is at the base.

Because of the number of sacrificed branches. Yes, that's where I want to put emphasis on, that what happens— um, I chose these 2 trees of almost the same age, but here the difference is I have removed the needles which are shading the bottom ones in this one, uh, because I know that you are coming for shooting, so that's the only tree I left without removing the needles.

Ah, I see, I see. Yes.

So, uh, and because of the number of sacrifice branches, the base thickens up exponentially. So, uh, for example, how I remove the shaded— so that the shading will not going to happen. Ideally, you know, I can use this— these cuttings for my next set of pine propagation, and they will be fully pumped up right now to be the next set of, you know, my production. But however, I just wanted to show you that I just have to remove the needles so that—

In order for the light to get down to those lower branches.

So all these needles you have to remove from the sacrifice branch so that the bottom bits can get a lot of light. So the same thing I'm going to do on all the sacrifice branches, I will remove so that—

So it's a really important thing for people who are just starting field growing or developing pine cuttings is that you can build up a heavy, heavy trunk by just throwing the cutting into the ground, but the tree will never back bud if you don't start looking after and developing your branches right low down at the base of the tree from the very early years, you're then going to be dictated into having a very, very tall pine. You can't have something that can be cut right down and used as a shohin or even slightly larger.

So this one has got a lot of sacrificial branches. If I can count right now, it is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, almost 11 or 12 sacrifice branches are there in this one to thicken up the base to achieve a taper. So now you— it is looking, you know, a bit tidy because I removed all the needles on this sacrifice branch. And if you look at this, is extending the second flush of growth already. Uh, Harry, uh, the thing is this one This, this much was like 4 or 5 inches tall, and all this growth is in last 10 days.

In the last 10 days?

Last 10 days. So if you look at this, this particular, uh, sacrifice branch, I am letting it extend, and probably I will let it extend for at least 3 to 4 feet tall, this one.

So we can see the base down here, and then the sacrificial is actually almost as thick as the base. It really is putting some thickness on there.

And right now the actual magic will start once this becomes 3 feet tall and full of needles. Then the base will thicken up exponentially. So wow, this is the— this is probably, you know, the second year of extension in this one. I was focusing on this second flush of growth. So from this year, that has started from this point point until here, but now the second flush is again growing, and the, the extension in the candle of second flush you are seeing is probably around 10 to 12 days, because I see this every single day and I take a picture just to see myself that how fast it is growing. So pine, the more water, the more fertilizer you give in the summer season, they thrive.

We are actually having a relatively cool July. It's Our day temperatures are only 18, 19, 20 degrees centigrade. That's really still really pushing that much growth.

I would say pines are active between 12 degrees onwards and 18 to 20. If you look at summer with wet rainfall and all those things, pines love humidity. Yes, pine love humidity. Black JBP love humidity. And water.

And would you say that the night temperatures, particularly earlier in the season, have any effect on the growth rates and development of your black pines? I've always been understanding that 12 degrees is almost— at night is almost a magic figure. Yeah, where the tree has continual warmth 24/7. Yeah. And will really—

that's where it really gets strong and Yes, so with pine, what I understood was the moment you get a day temperature somewhere between 18 degrees to 25 degrees, they thrive. If you look at closely, this is a beautiful, uh, nebari. Uh, probably, I don't know whether you can see, all these are roots, radial roots, and they are getting fused together to create a nice thick base. All these are sacrifice branches, you can see, and which I am going to produce, let them extend. So this is a sacrifice branch, and some of them I am going to— one of them I am going to use as a secondary leader. Once I remove the sacrifice branch, there has to be a leader to create this small size tree, you know, almost like 18 inches tall tree. And throughout the period, I am thinking of keeping this only in this pond basket. So if you look at this one, this is a 4-year-old and already having a very nice root structure on 360 degrees. I mean, I think the backside looks much better than the front. Nevertheless, the point I want to emphasize was I took a cutting on the top of it, and here is the cutting. If you look at—

Ah, so this is actually a cutting.

Cutting off the top of this one. And if you look at the height of the cutting, of the original tree, it's, I think, taller than the original.

I think you were right there. Yes.