Dr. Rola Hallam | The Healing Power of Divine Remembrance

Welcome to the Radical responsibility podcast. I'm Dr. Fleet Mahl, and I'm excited to guide you on a journey of authentic transformation. In each episode, I'll bring you insights from leading experts to explore trauma recovery, mindfulness practices, positive psychology, and innovative breakthroughs in health, wellness, and life optimization. This is a space for real conversations that inspire meaningful change, helping you find alignment with the person you were always meant to be. Let's get started. My name is Dr. Fleet Ball, your co host for this session, and I'm very happy to be here today with Rola Hallam. Welcome, Rola.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Well, I've been looking forward to this conversation. So before we got started here, we were talking about how your sort of family lineage is that of spiritual healers, and your father became a medical doctor and that kind of pivoted your family towards science, and you followed in his footsteps and became a medical doctor. But you've never lost track of those spiritual roots. And you're kind of coming full circle now. And in particular today you're going to be sharing your wisdom from the Sufi tradition. So I wonder if you could share with us, just to get us started, if there's some particular event in your life that maybe precipitated you turning more towards the inner or the spiritual part of life, whether earlier in your life or it's something more recent, but at different times. And I'm curious how that's been for you.

Great question. Well, actually, I would say that what first attracted me to meditation and now we're talking about 15 years ago, it was more my health and wellness. It was the thick of the height of the war on civilians in Syria. I was there as, you know, as a frontline health and aid worker. And. And it was really my insomnia and the sort of edges of burnout that first got me to meditate. And for quite some time, my practice was transcendental meditation for health and wellness reasons. That soon developed into more of a spiritual seeking practice. And I actually then at that point found Buddhism and at one point took my Bodhisattva vows. And actually for quite a few years, my practice was more rooted in Buddhist traditions. But it would be about six years ago when I had what I call my Sufi awakening, and I had quite an incredible experience. I was sitting talking to my husband. I think we may have even been watching tv. And suddenly I was lifted, gotten up, and I just heard myself say, I'm going to pray. And I hadn't prayed Fleet in several years. And this had not been precipitated by any inkling, by any thought. There was. It literally went like something was switched on, a button, a light that came on. And suddenly it was like, I'm getting up to pray. And I prayed and I haven't stopped praying since then. And so if you're like, that was really the moment where I was like, I need to know about this God. I need to know about this divine power. I need to know about this ability to get me up and throw something in my heart, a yearning, a longing that honestly wasn't at all aflame in the way that it was just five minutes earlier.

Wow. And I think in the past you've also spoken about at some point, so having the experience of losing your voice. And I wonder how that also played Inner spiritual journey.

Yeah. So if this experience that I just described to you was sort of the awakening, really what got me to be the practitioner and the teacher that I am now is exactly what you're talking about. So back in 2021, I experienced what I now call my valley of darkness. I thought it was a severe burnout at the time, it was that, but it was also, I think, a dark night of the soul. And I had been a humanitarian and a doctor for then, by then 10 years. And it was that paralyzing state, that existential crisis state that that would actually get me to go to that next level of questioning who am I and what am I and why am I here? Right. The very existential questions that so many of us go through. And it was at that point that I as alongside reaching for more body based techniques and more, you know, emotional and cognitive techniques that I really realized that these were deficient without a spiritual approach as well. And so it was at that point that I was guided by God's mercy to start meditating on God's 99 names. In Islam and Sufism, we say that God has 99 names and 99 names essentially refers to the infinite number of names. Right. And it was at that point that I shifted my meditative practice from more of the compassion based and meta based practices to the Zikr of one of God's 99 names. And that would really be a most transformative experience for me at not just my physical and mental emotional level, but of course at my spiritual level as well.

Well, again, before we got started, I mentioned I've had the pleasure and the gift of participating in a number of zikrs or Sufi services, if you will, and this chanting of the 99 names and so forth. And I believe for you, being a healer, there's a vibrational healing quality involved in the chanting and the prayer and so forth. And so I wonder if you could talk about how that's been healing for you and then how you see yourself bringing that into your own healing work, which is really what your life has been all about on many levels, but now in this way, grounded in the Sufi spirituality and the chanting and this kind of. Which can be a kind of vibrational medicine.

Absolutely. Well, you know what was interesting? I think I remember when I was younger being told that the Qur' an is a sacred sound and that it's meant to be recited. It's not meant to be read silently. It's meant that the power of it can only really fully come out when it is verbalized, when it is actually recited. And I remember honestly just being so ignorant that I kind of dismissed that. I'm like, how could that possibly make a difference? And it would only take days of me starting to do this zikr practice to realize, whoa, how ignorant and naive I had been. Treat. If you have experienced that, you will know what I'm talking about. I would experience the different names vibrating in a different chakra. And it was just like how a chiropractor can kind of move your body to kind of get it into an alignment. I could feel the sound codes and the vibration, shifting and moving things within, such that suddenly, you know, you would be kind of doing the zakat, and you're just sitting there and you're repeating the name like, yara man, yarrahman. And then suddenly, I might have an emotional outburst, like out of nowhere, you would start sobbing, a huge emotional release. Or out of nowhere, you would have memories, images, maybe even visions. So it was an experience by which it wasn't just that you was just simply reciting it, but you could see the medicine working in action, sometimes at a physical level, sometimes at an emotional level, sometimes at a cognitive level, but it was vibrating through me and shifting and moving things, allowing me to therefore get into a state of greater integration after much disintegration.

How do you, you know, how do you understand your direct experience of that from the perspective of your many, many, many years of medical training and medical practice? And as well as I know that you. You weren't rounded in a narrow definition of your medical. Of allopathic medicine, but you were more broadly involved in healing work and so forth. But you're deeply grounded in the science, so in our understanding of neurophysiology and biology and medical Science as well as, you know, in the world of integrative medicine, a little more broad view of medicine. Again, how do we understand the healing effect of this vibrational medicine?

Yes, absolutely. So there's a huge amount of science behind that. So the science of sound. So let's say, let's first of all ground it in the nervous system, right? Sound as a nervous system regulator, as getting our nervous system into a greater resonance. When we activate our vocal cord, we're activating our vagus nerve. And the vagus nerve is that nerve that gets us into a parasympathetic state, shifts us out of a sympathetic or the fight and flight state, Right. So that's helping us to get into a grounded and calm state. That's why a lot of the time you might notice that humming or sighing, even all those things that activate sound in the vocal cord, can actually help to create that great state of release and calmness. There's also what's called the entrainment effect, which is when we chant, our brainwaves actually synchronize with the rhythm of the sound. And so we kind of get into a meditative and an expanded state of consciousness. A shift from the beta, which is the more thinking to the alpha, more calmed focus and even more into theta. Deep meditative brainwaves. And of course, yes, there's like the emotional and the psychological shifts that happens, like I already mentioned about like huge emotional blockage and release, like stuck energy. Trauma gets wedged in our nervous system, but also in our musculature and in our, the various bodies that we have, right? The energetic body as well as the physical body. And so there is the emotional release, the shift of emotions as this vibrations move, move through us. Not to mention, I think for me, the spiritual component, as you said. So if that is when we are activating sacred sound, not just any sound, but the sacred sound, we are connecting to our higher state of being and we are connecting to the divine within and without. And so it is said that these names have an encoded sacred sound within them, which is all about bringing us back into a state of oneness, into a state of oneness, into a state of wholeness, which for me is what healing is all about.

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Absolutely. And before that, even the sound of the heartbeat in the maternal womb. Right. And so sound has been something that has been there from our very early journey and absolutely into that childhood and therefore after that.

Wonderful. So how did that work in terms of. You said you were experiencing burnout and exhaustion from your work. So what did your, you know, process of healing and the kind of rebalancing of your own nervous system feel like through the chanting in the Sufi tradition?

So I think it's important to say that I believe God gave us so many tools and so that we can use them holistically. We are a body and therefore we need to look after our physical body and we have our emotions and our mental state and cognitive state as well as our spiritual state. And so for me, when I think about my own healing and my own healing journey or whether the one that I guide through with other clients is really about what does a holistic approach to it look like, right? And they are not. They do not displace each other, they overlap with each other, they are complementary, but they do not replace each other. So I think it's really important that we do do the nervous system regulation work, right? That maybe even there's some other body work that we need to do, somatic therapy or other body work. I did a lot of massage and chiropractor, for example, and acupressure and acupuncture as part of my healing. For me, the chanting and the spiritual practice was a way in which I found the greatest therapist.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so important to not get, you know, narrow minded, like there's one silver bullet or something and that's the only way. But really, I think this holistic integrative approach where we can really bring cause we live at a time in life, incredible time to be alive, where we have access to all the ancient yogic traditions, all the great contemplative traditions, spiritual technologies over thousands of years in the human traditions across the planet. And then we have, you know, everything going on in current neuroscience and positive psychology and even quantum theory, I mean, and we can integrate all of this to really optimize our healing. So it's an amazing time to be alive. And the depth, sometimes it seems the greatest depth is available to us. It may be the, and I don't want to necessarily be too biased here because I think there are modern technologies that could end up taking someone very deep. But it seems like in some ways, inevitably we find our way into the depth of various spiritual traditions that have really created some pathways that provide tremendous depth that have been developed over thousands of years, really. And I know in the Siktic tradition it has very much to do with the heart being the pathway of the heart, the way of the heart. And we can probably talk about that in sense of the normal associations we all have with the heart. But that could probably go into the neurophysiology and what we know about the neural networks of the heart, the brain, you know, the skull encapsulated brain as well, neural networks in the heart today and neural networks in the gut and the fact that in many of the eastern traditions, the seat of the mind or the soul is often here as opposed up here. This is the operating system for the brain. But like in Buddhism, you mentioned before, when we do a lot of ceremonies and rituals around which we talk about body, speech and mind, right? This is body, this is speech. Mind is here at the heart level, right? So I wonder if you could talk both about the Sufi tradition as the way of the heart, and then also if you're willing to talk about the role of the kind of the process by which one enters the Sufi tradition, taking hand in this idea and you know, what is the entryway into the Sufi tradition? What does the overall Sufi path sort of look like and feel like?

So let me start by saying that one of the hadiths that are, which is like a saying that is attributed to the word of God is he says, the whole universe cannot contain me, but the heart of a believer can. Okay? So that is very much God telling us that I am in your heart. So can you imagine the incredible and infinite ability of the human heart? It contains God. The whole universe cannot contain God, but the heart of a believer, of someone who believes and trusts in God, that contains it. So that's the importance of the heart. And of course, we're not talking necessarily just the physical heart, but we're talking about the spiritual heart, the kalb in Arabic as it's called, but anatomical and non anatomical manifestations, right? Now the beautiful things about the 99 names is that they are different attributes of God, right? So we say that or not. We say God says so half of them are his Jalal names, which is his names of power, and half of them are his Jamal name, the names of beauty. And so when you are invoking one of those names, you are of course, first of all calling on God. You are. It's a worshipful act. It's a way of saying, I want to connect to you God and you wanting to know this particular aspect. And so you might be calling on Ar Rahman in your heart, and Ar Rahman is the merciful, the compassionate, or you might be calling on Al Jalal, which is the powerful one. So you might be calling on different names. And part of it is to get to know God, but it's also meant to be to cultivate that quality in your heart and in yourself. And so it is not just to get to know God as a great being outside of us, but it's also to cultivate that in our very own hearts, in our own character, in our own ways, so that we are starting to embody those Same names. So we are starting to embody the same power, the same knowledge, the same beauty, right? And so it is a way of getting to know God and connecting to God, but it's also a way of getting to know ourselves. And so if you like, it bridges spiritual development with personal development. And of course, the seat of all of that is in the heart. You may mention all of that outside and, you know, verbalize it in a vibrational sense, in a vocal sense, but it has to come from your heart. So that brings me to the point of sincerity. The sincerity in our act, the sincerity in wanting that divine connection, Right. That sincerity in wanting to know God and to know ourselves and to be our best selves for the sake of God and for the sake of each other. For the sake of the whole universe, right? For the sake of each other. That's for the Creator and all of creation, and that's a sincere act of the heart. And of course, only God knows what's in our hearts.

And I think you, in the Sufi tradition also uses the expression divine remembrance. And so I'm wondering if this, you know, I think many of the deep spiritual traditions point to that we've actually never been separated from the divine, that it is our essential nature, and it's not something out there that we have to get, that it really is our essence, and it's really more a question of remembering. And so that the chanting practice, the zikr practice and prayer and so forth can really just be a practice of remembering. And I wonder if you can speak of it in that light.

Yes. And Fleet, I feel like this is exactly the point where I feel spiritual awakening overlaps with trauma healing, because I believe that certainly it's been my experience and it's been an experience of so many of my clients, that it was our early developmental traumas that actually make us feel. Believe that we are separate from God. And in fact, for so many of us, our early traumas gave us such a deeply profound sense of abandonment that many of us turn away from God because we are so angry at God for having supposedly forsaken us. Right? And so that if you think about trauma, I think of trauma as a fracture, a separateness moving away from. And so that remembrance, that bringing that, Zika, that bringing that, the remembrance of names is almost like remembering that, oh, my God, no, I was never abandoned. God has always been here. And it's this way of bringing us back to God, back to ourselves, back to this wholeness, back to this oneness. And it really is a remembrance exactly as you said. But I think this is exactly where trauma healing overlaps with the spiritual practice and why they are so powerful, when they are merged together or when they come together.

Yeah. It just suddenly reminded me, my Zen teacher, Bernie Glassman, who was well known for integrating Zen and social action, humanitarian work, the kind of work you do, and who founded the Bearing Witness retreats. And there's a film about the first Bearing Witness retreat at Auschwitz, I think, in 1996, I believe. And the retreats have continued ever since. I've been one of the leaders there for the last 22 years, I think. And at any rate, in his filmmate, he was talking about Bearing Witness and talking about remembering, and he talks about remembering in a sense of remember to make whole again. Just remember that when you were speaking about, there's this initial break, this fracture caused by trauma that then creates this separation and separates us from our essence and disconnects us from God or a trust in the divine, or faith in the divine, or faith in our own divine essence. And so this is really about remembering to make whole again, to come back together and reconnect that which has been disconnected.

Absolutely. And, you know, one of the names is Al Shaheed, which is the witness. And it's a really powerful name to invoke for us to really start to rewitness ourselves. And it starts from witnessing ourselves, how much, you know, we were talking and we touched about burnout and trauma before in myself and in others, especially when we've been dysregulated from an early stage. We don't know how to witness ourselves, how to witness our emotions, how to witness, witness our thoughts. Right. We get taught to deny, to numb, to ignore, you know, to take various different substances or whatever it is in order to numb our pain. We don't get taught how to be with. Right. And not only how to be with, but that we are a witness. We are not them. We are not even that brain. We are not even that trauma. Right. We are that light, that spirit that is experiencing that and is in connection with it. And so that witnessing is such a deep, profound healing shift when we can call on that in ourselves and for others. Absolutely. Really important. And I think, if I may, you know, I feel like for so many of us, whether you are from an Abrahamic religion or from any other deep spiritual practice, I feel like there is an inadequacy of the Western psychology model for trauma healing. Many of us don't find ourselves there, or rather we find it a useful tool if it is in A holistic way integrated with other things. But for so many of us, we found that God has been thrown out with the bathwater, and there's very little room, it seems, for the spiritual healing. And actually, I know from myself and from very many others that some of us are actually afraid to even bring the scientific and the spiritual together, you know, because of just the quickness with which someone is labeled woo and discredited for actually daring to say no. There is the physical and the megaphysical. There is the body, but there is our heart and there is the spiritual. And how do we bring that together? And for my work in Syria and with frontline health workers and aid workers there, I know that their spiritual and religious beliefs have been a central pillar of their resilience, right? Not just for healing, but for how they have been able to bear witness. Back to your point. That is what has given them strength in their mission and in what they are here to do.

And we live in a time, we go through various evolutionary eras as humanity on the planet, and they're all necessary and they're correcting one. And then they go to the extreme. And we're in this kind of era of postmodernism, which the primary characteristic of which is deconstructionism. And it's deconstructed a lot of things that do create oppression and systemic suffering of all kinds. But it ends up kind of deconstructing everything into a kind of a nihilistic. A materialistic, nihilistic view, which I think is fairly endemic in our society today and separates us from the. The deepest resource we all have, the very depth of our spirituality and our spiritual being and the spiritual realities, right? And so. And you know, interestingly enough, if you read some of the personal writings of many great scientists, even who, you know, on the surface are publicly, they're scientific atheists and so forth, if you read their personal writings, they're all finding their way into some deep mysticism. Because the deeper you go, whether you're going deep into your own body, you're going deep into your own mind, or whether you're going deep into studying the material universe, eventually you get into the unmanifest realm, right? And you find that the unmanifest realm is not just a nihilistic emptiness. It's the place of the heart. It's the place of being and energy and love and the ultimate source of all, right? So I think we all find a way there. But unfortunately, we're in a time when there's a kind of secular agreement to almost Deny that or something and associate it with things that are, as you said, woo woo or something like that. Right. So. And you know, I think it can separate us from the deepest source of our healing. You mentioned before, the dhikr practice with the chanting of the 99 names of God of Allah and the vibrational quality at this vibrational medicine in a way that can open up different parts of our neurophysiology or even at the kind of subtle energy level, if we use the language of chakras or whatever, the energy centers in the body, there can be these emotional releases and that could be, I would assume, part of the healing process of traumas as well, that these emotional releases. But then having an emotional release in a container of like a zikr, I would think is a little. Not that it can be very powerful and beneficial and healing to have an emotional release on the couch, so to speak, or in a therapy session. But having it in the midst of that spiritual container of the zikr seems to be a uniquely powerful place to allow these things to release themselves and to witness them and to be held within some greater spiritual container of some kind. I'm curious about your thoughts about.

I think that our nervous system is neurocets, right? It can tell, it judges when it feels safe and when it doesn't feel safe, right? That's the job of the nervous system. And I believe that when we are in any kind of circle, regardless of whether it's for a spiritual reason or a healing reason, you know, we're able to kind of judge how safe do I feel, right? How much can I drop my guard and how much do you drop down your protection? And so we allow, there's what, you know, the safety of the atmosphere and the container that has been created. And then there's also like the grace of God that is going to visit you and I believe will always give you what you need when you need. So I don't want anybody listening here to think, oh my God, if I go to, you know, join, I don't know, a hundred others in remembrance, I'm going to suddenly start sobbing or doing whatever it is. I don'. Only God knows what will happen. The context I'm talking about is a context in which it is your personal practice between you and God or you are there in a small, securely held space that is there for the sake of a devotional practice as well as with a healing intention, right? So if I, when I'm guiding a practice like that, for example, I lead the session called Calm Pray, dance, where I can hold that space for it. So it very much depends. But I think what you were talking about there, in terms of the spiritual aspect, for me, there is this altered or expanded state of consciousness that can occur when we are in that deep meditative state. And it can sometimes feel more like a shunyata, more like a, you know, a clarity and sometimes and a nothingness. And sometimes it feels more like a trance state, really, an altered state of consciousness. And again, that depends on the depth of your own practice. That depends on the grace of God. That depends on the context in which you're in. And so I would say that there's never going to be two experiences that might be the same. And as you know from all meditative practice, you should never try and chase any kind of experience anyway because it's the surest way, you know, to actually this. That's just the work of the ego then, isn't it? When we're just either chasing some kind of blissful state or trying to avoid any particular state.

So also some things that have come up for me listening to you, especially in terms of the potential for healing trauma and then rediscovering our fundamental spiritual foundation for our being and our life and the role of sound and movement and so forth. So Stephen Porges work around Polyvagal theory. I've had many conversations with him about this. And he talks about the way we co regulate and based on what you mentioned, neuroception that our nervous system is constantly scanning the world. And what is it scanning for? Scanning for threat. Am I safe or am I not safe? And this is happening through all the five senses and maybe even directly from the nervous system through into the energetic field. And so the way that safety gets communicated, what in polyvagal theory they call our social engagement system online has to do with posture, it has to do with movement, has to do with voice. Like a well regulated melodic voice really invites that. So there's a lot of connection there. And then also Bessel Vanikolk's work around trauma, his well known book, the Body Keeps the Score. He's talked many times about how, you know, all of our religious traditions and spiritual traditions for thousands of years have somehow intuited this healing work of healing trauma. So what do people do in fellowship and service and prayer and all the world's religions? There's singing and there's chanting and there's sighing and there's moving together and rocking and, you know, there's all these things which we now know scientifically heal trauma Right. And so it's very interesting that human beings have sort of had these technologies for many years. And in the west, in many ways, we're rediscovering and perhaps sort of codifying in a secular way what spiritual and religious folks have been doing forever to heal and to develop that integrated attachment that is the basis for thriving. Really?

Absolutely. And in addition to everything that you said, which I totally agree with the fact that it is a collective effort and a collective and communal experience, as opposed to this more Western, individualistic, your healing is your responsibility and it's on you. So off you go for endless therapy by yourself, sit in your room, cry by yourself. Right. Like that idea that it is on you and on you alone, as if you experienced your trauma in a vaccine. Right. Whereas the healing and can accelerate when we are in that community, when we are part of the collective, when we are absolutely getting to experience oneness. Right. Or hopefully get an experience of safety and of oneness and of wholeness, which is what is healing? That co regulation that you are talking about, that sense of finding the divine in each other, seeing the divine in each other and together creating that. Yeah. Vortex of energy and a vortex of healing energy together.

And I assume in the Sufi tradition there are practices that people do on their own, in their own home and so forth, of prayer and chanting and so forth, but there is a tremendous emphasis on the collective and on community. I wonder if you could just say something about that. In my own Buddhist tradition, it's called Sangha, and very important part. Talk about the three jewels in the Buddhist path of Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. So you have the Buddha as the example of awakened mind. You have the Dharma, the teachings, the map on how to reawaken. But the importance of the collective body and that ultimately our awakening is collective. In fact, it's even seen in the Buddhist tradition that the idea of personal liberation is still somewhat of a limited view. Real liberation is beyond the personal. It's a collective experience. And some of the early. Some researchers into the very early Chan writings in China said really, the only place you can. Whatever you want to think of as enlightenment or liberation or something, the only place you can really identify it is where it's showing up in the collective field, how it shows up in the relational field. Right. So I wonder if you could say a little more about the community aspect of the Sufi path.

Yes. I mean, I think that is implicit, I think, or explicit even in every religious tradition, to be honest. Isn't it? You know, I was recently in Mecca doing Umrah, which is the sort of like the Hajj, right? And you're there, you're circling the great house of God, all of you together, if you had actually gone individually, but you are all there doing the same practice together, same whether you're going to the mosque or to the Derga. You're there to carry out your prayers together, you're there to do the zikr together. So there's a huge amount that relies on that, the communal aspect and the together aspect. And of course, but you are, in your heart, you are remembering in your heart, you have got your own connection to God, right? Because I think this is also where we have to be careful to not become about impressing others, right? Where the ego can really come in and say, right, how I be, how am I looking, how am I sounding, how am I being perceived? Which can easily happen in this instance. But yes, absolutely. The collective and the communal practice, it said that you get more a higher reward if you're able to go and pray together than if you are able to pray alone. So, yes, absolutely.

Thank you so much for being part of our Art of Meditation journey and for the wonderful work appealing that you continue to bring into the world in so many ways. Thank you for being you and thank you for your journey. Thank you for joining us today and inviting us into this divine remembrance.

Thank you so much. Blessings to you. Blessings to all.

Thank you. Be well. Thank you for joining me on the Radical Responsibility podcast. Remember, real change happens when we commit to our growth, face our challenges with compassion, and stay open to transformation. If you found this episode helpful, I encourage you to subscribe and help us spread the message of healing and personal empowerment. Stay grounded, stay present and stay true to you. Take care.