PFLAG National Creating Pride in Families: New Resource Helps Parents Build Support Networks at Work

Here's a stat that stopped me when I heard it. Roughly one-third of federal contractors are actually increasing their DEI spending right now. Not cutting it, increasing it. I know it's not what you expected to hear. My guest today is Jamie Hinkle, Vice President of Learning and Inclusion at PFLAG National, and she brought that number into our conversation almost as a side note. But I couldn't let it go because we are living in a moment when it can feel like every door is closing, every resource is shrinking, and every safe space is under threat. And the reality is much more complicated than that, more human than that. Jamie and I talked about PFLAG's brand new resource, Creating Pride in Families, a library built specifically for parents and caregivers of LGBTQ+ people who want to create peer support networks inside their workplaces. Think of it as a Pride ERG, but built around the unique experience of being the parent in the room, the one who loves someone LGBTQ+ and is still figuring out how to show up well. We also talked about something that I think every parent needs to hear: silence is not neutral. When you say nothing, your LGBTQ+ loved one hears rejection. And messy allyship, the kind where you try and stumble and correct course, is not just acceptable, it is the whole point. Jamie has been with PFLAG since 2008 and has spent her career building the tools that help families and allies do this work with more courage and less fear. This conversation is for anyone who loves someone LGBTQ+, fully and imperfectly, and is still figuring it out. Welcome to More Human, More Kind, the podcast for parents of LGBTQ+ kids and anyone trying to stay human in a world that keeps hardening. I'm Heather Hester, and here we talk about fear, belonging, boundaries, courage, love, and what it means to protect what matters without losing yourself in the process.

Your child doesn't just need a parent who's informed, they need a parent who is grounded and strong.

Let's take a breath and let's begin.

Welcome back to More Human, More Kind. I am Heather Hester. I am delighted to have today's guest. This is such a special opportunity for me and for all of you to get to meet and listen to Jamie Hinkle, who is here from PFLAG National today. I'm so excited about all the things that we are going to talk about, but before we get into that, I'd love to just give you the floor and introduce you and just thank you so much for being here today, Jamie.

Yeah, thank you for having us. I'm really excited to be a part of this conversation. My name is Jamie Henkel. My pronouns are she and her, and I am the Vice President of Learning and Inclusion at PFLAG National. I have been with PFLAG for 18 years. I started on our operations team immediately after I completed my undergrad and moved into what is now the Learning and Inclusion Department in 2011. It was called something different at the time. And then I took on a leadership role in the department in August-ish of 2023. So I've been in this role for almost 3 years.

So you've been able to really see the rollout of so many— the rollout and the growth really of PFLAG in general. But of so many fantastic programs that you offer to parents, to allies, to caregivers. Today specifically, we're going to talk about first this new program that you are rolling out into workplaces, Creating Pride in Families. And I would love if you could give a broad overview of this program, and then we'll get into the nitty-gritty of it.

Yeah, absolutely. So PFLAG has worked with corporate and philanthropic partners for really the duration of my 18 years at PFLAG, and that has mostly been in the realm of ally engagement work. So we have gone to workplaces all across the country to help LGBTQ+ employee or business resource groups engage more allies, get them involved in that work that is happening within the company. And through that programming, we have developed really great long-term relationships with some of our philanthropic partners. And over the last couple of years, we were hearing more and more from those partners that they had just seen this huge influx of parents and caregivers and family members coming to those Pride or LGBTQ+ employee groups because they were in need of information, they were in need of guidance, they were in need of support were in this very tough moment in the country. And so they needed something. And in partnership with parenting or caregiving employee groups, these LGBTQ+ groups wanted to provide some sort of support to those families. And we saw in some places that really sort of from the grassroots, something that was very much like PFLAG, formed at these companies where parents were coming together at some sort of regular cadence to have a sort of closed-door meeting where they were supporting one another, they were learning from each other, they were coming together to say like, this is the information we need from our employer, these are the kinds of benefits we are looking for, for our families. And as that was happening, we realized that The work that the PFLAG chapter network had been doing for 50+ years and the work that our chapter engagement team has been doing to support those meetings happening in more than 350 communities could be used to also help to support these parents groups that were coming together in the context of their workdays. So we took a lot of the resources, a lot of the materials that our phenomenal chapter engagement team had pulled together to to help local chapters organize and to facilitate support group meetings and to develop educational programming and to get parents who were interested involved in advocacy work. And we adapted them to meet the needs of people in their workplaces because the conversation is very similar, but it is also different sometimes. And so we adapted those resources, pulled them all together in a single place. And we now have this resource library that would help a group that is coming together to provide that sort of peer support in the context of their work life. They now have guidance on, I mean, everything from icebreakers to start meetings to how to handle any safety concerns that might come up in groups like that. I mean, it really is a wide variety of resources that are available, and it is also a place where we hope that many of the resources that parents who are very early on in their journey are looking for to help them learn basic terminology, to help them learn the, the very basics that they need to know as the parent of an LGBTQ+ person, that that is all collected in one place. So they're not having to do hours worth of research to get what it is that they are looking for.

I have spent some time going through it and looking at all of the different pieces that you've put together, and it is really fantastic. First of all, it is all in one place, but second of all, like you said, it really does, it does speak to that person whose child who has just come out to them or their young, young adult has just come out to them. It also has a lot of great resources for parents who are a little further down the road, allies who are kind of stepping in to what does this mean to be an ally? And so I was very impressed with what I saw and what you all have put together. You had mentioned in there the part of the need for this is because of kind of the current climate that we find ourselves in. A lot of companies have been downsizing their DEI, have been taking those programs completely out. How have you seen that affect what you're trying to do here?

You know, I think that it is important to acknowledge that there is a very big divide between companies that hold federal contracts and those that don't. But even within companies that hold federal contracts, we're seeing that about a third of them are increasing their spend on diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, accessibility work. And that when it comes to some of this climate, I think there is something that's magical about this work of providing just support to people in need. And this is open to anybody because that seems to be one of the huge concerns right now is that somehow these sorts of employee resource groups were meant to be exclusionary, which was never the case, but in providing support to a parent who says, I, I have a child that I want to support, that really illustrates how this work has always been for everyone because anyone can have an LGBTQ+ child.

Right.

And I think that one of the things that we are seeing with maybe budgets that have been cut a little bit for that sort of work internally, for a focus on programming that is more internal and maybe not as external, not as publicly available, not as visible, that the, the partnerships we are seeing develop between multiple ERGs, you know, the parenting and caregiver group and the LGBTQ+ coming together to offer programming together, or, you know, the LGBTQ+ and the group for veterans or the group for people who are Black and African American or whatever the case might be, that That is this, this huge net positive from some of the climate that we're seeing people recognize those intersections and come together to do this work. So I almost think that without the climate, this programming may not have been so evident, like the need may not have been so evident for us.

Mm-hmm. And it seems what I'm hearing is that there was an initial shock of like, oh my gosh, this is happening, and reading into what was being said and responding to that. It's easy to kind of swept in that like all DEI has been canceled and there are no support groups for anybody. And if you are of any marginalized group, you need to just lay low. And that's not the case at all. And so I, I appreciate you articulating that and highlighting all of these different programs. And I like as well, because it seems like this was something that may not have been seen as an opportunity either, is the fact that different groups are coming together, right? And it's that it's given an opportunity not only for collaboration and intersectionality, but also letting others know this isn't exclusionary. You are welcome here. We want people. In here who are— I mean, ally is not a specific LGBTQ term, right? You can be an ally to any community that you are not part of. And so I think that's a really important thing for people to understand as well. So thank you so much. Have you come across any people or companies or any of your partners who have felt like, really not sure what, what this is. We feel like there might be a need, but they're very much in like, I have no idea what to do. Like, can you hold my hand through this? Yeah.

I mean, absolutely. And the thing that I think is really important about this work is that much like when a PFLAG chapter forms in a community, it does have to come from the bottom up. It has to come from the grassroots. And so the places where we have seen this work be most effective is in those companies where a parent, a caregiver, a family member has said, I'm going to take— I'm going to take the reins. I'm going to make this happen. I am— I have the passion. I have the dedication to jump through the hoops that need to be jumped through and to, you know, come up with a mission statement and do all of the things that would go into forming an employee group within the context of that company, because how that happens is a little bit different depending on where you work. And so we have seen some organizations that conceptually, they think this is a really phenomenal idea and they're interested in creating the space for people to do it should they want to, but they still need that, that one person or that small group of people to, to really take the lead and help it come to fruition because for the parents, for the caregivers that I have seen create these groups, this is a labor of love. This is an addition to their day job. This is giving their time and their talent and their treasure and their blood and their sweat and their tears to make this all happen. And so you really do need people who want to create this space and who have the passion to be sure that it happens.

Absolutely. So just to break that down a little bit more for someone who is listening and says, that's me, mm-hmm, what do they do?

You know, I think that the first thing that I would recommend is reaching out to the lead of the employee group, either for LGBTQ+ folks and their allies or for parents and caregivers and their allies. That might be at your location that there is a lead that you can touch base with. It might be something that is a little bit more regional or national, but start there because those folks will have an understanding of what it takes to create a new employee group at your company. And if they don't know exactly the steps, they know who to get the information from. After that has happened, I, we have seen some organizations where rather than there being like a standalone employee group for the parents and caregivers of LGBTQ+ people, it becomes a subgroup. I, it becomes an offshoot of the Pride ERG or the Parenting ERG, but we have seen some where it becomes its own, its own thing. And so making that first touchpoint, getting the information on like, what would this look like here at our company, to me is the first step. In places where maybe employee groups just don't exist yet, because there are companies where they haven't gone on this journey, they don't have these sort of networks or they don't have these sort of groups that are meeting regularly, I would recommend connecting either with somebody who is in human resources is in like people or belonging, is in employee relations. There are lots of different ways that you could get additional information as to what this would look like, what would need to be done, the work that goes into creating something like this. Outside of a person's, you know, place of employment, I do think that Creating Pride in Families is a good place to start because it can help you to connect with some of the organizations that PFLAG has partnered over the years that have really specific advice on here's how to make that business case. Here's how to demonstrate return on investment for employee groups or networks like this. And so that could be a good place to get started and to branch out so you get the information that you need.

Great. And that information is linked and it's on the website with the Creating Pride in Families.

Yeah. Yeah. It would be in the section that we have that is centered in educational resources. We've listed a number of those organizations that PFLAG has partnered with over the years that do work in the same sphere that we do in engaging allies and working with LGBTQ+ employee groups. And there are some, I mean, step-by-step, here is how to create an ERG resources that are out there. And we did our best to collect them in, in that educational resources section.

Amazing. Oh, that is fantastic. Okay, good. We will also link all of these things in the show notes, so we'll make it as easy as possible. I want to shift just a tiny bit into kind of more general PFLAG talk, I have two questions that I think would be really interesting to hear more information on. First, for the listener who happens to live very remotely, who may not live near a town or a city that has a PFLAG chapter for in-person gatherings, what would you recommend to that person?

So a couple of things. One of the very few net positives of the COVID-19 pandemic is we did see many of our chapters start to have an online presence that did not exist prior to that. We have a program called PFLAG Connects where many of our chapters are still regularly hosting meetings on Zoom, whether that is in a hybrid format where some folks are in a room together and others are online, or where those meetings are happening exclusively online. So if you were to go to the PFLAG national website at pflag.org and you go to sort of find a chapter, there is an offer— opportunity to search for virtual meetings. And I think a lot of folks, they want to go to virtual meetings that are close to home, but anybody could go to a virtual meeting hosted by any chapter. And so there isn't that sort of same geographical constraint. In addition to that, and then sort of a progression of the PFLAG Connects program, we also have PFLAG Connects Communities, which are free peer-led virtual support group meetings that happen once a month for folks who have a shared background. So right now we have 7 groups that meet regularly. We have one for LGBTQ+ people and their families, who come from the armed services or the military. We have one group that is for Latino LGBTQ+ people and their families. We have a group for Black and African American LGBTQ+ people and their parents, families, allies. We have a group for dads. We have a group for grandparents. We have a group for Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander LGBTQ+ people and their families. And we have a group for folks who have gender diversity within their families. It's called Gender Spectrum. You can learn more about when, where, how these groups meet on the PFLAG website as well. They do require folks to register to get the login information, but that, that any detail that is provided is kept completely confidential. And that, so that is another opportunity to connect virtually if you don't have a chapter that is close by. In addition to those virtual meetings that are happening, I do think we have publications that can be exceptionally helpful for people. They are downloadable, they are free. They can— you can print them if you want to have a tangible piece of paper in hand. But we have these, these really phenomenal publications that are available in English and in Spanish for parents, for caregivers that focus on different topics. We have PFLAG publications that are just sort of generally for the parents of LGBTQ+ people called Our Children. We have a book that is specifically for the parents and family members of trans and non-binary people called Our Trans Loved Ones. We have a, a resource that is available for parents and caregivers who have questions about how to reconcile their religious background or their faith tradition with Having an LGBTQ+ child called Faith in Our Families. We have a publication called At Ease for military families. We have a resource that was developed in partnership with another organization called Supporting Your LGBTQ+ Grandchild, like really, really great stuff. And in addition to that, we have a few publications that were written with just sort of more general allies in mind. So there's the Guide to Being an Ally to LGBTQ+ People. And the Guide to Being an Ally to Trans and Nonbinary People. So if you're a reader, we've got quite a bit for you. And then the last thing that I will mention is in terms of finding that support, we do have a nationally based online community that is currently on Facebook. So if you were thinking to yourself, I don't fall into one of those identity groups Jamie just went through, but I still want that virtual support because I can't get somewhere geographically, that might be a great opportunity to connect with PFLAG resources to, you know, meet other parents virtually like you to, to find that peer support. That is what makes PFLAG so magical.

Great.

Oh, that is phenomenal.

So that actually leads perfectly into my last question for you, which is you've obviously created all of this information to be an incredible support, but I think one of the reasons you've also created it is because it is really important for us as, whether it's a parent, the caregiver, the ally, to do our own work. And this is something that I talk about a lot, to do our own learning, to do our own unlearning.

Could you talk about that a little bit more?

Yeah, absolutely. My team at PFLAG, we spend a lot of our time providing education and training and workshops to different audiences. And we will often talk about the fact that when LGBTQ+ young people are asked, like, what does support look like to you? One of the most frequent responses that they give is that the adults in my life do their own homework and that they try to learn more about the issues that I might run into or what I need them to know without the labor of educating them being on me. Not articulated in exactly that way, but it is one of the ways that young people say, this is what support looks like, is mom and dad doing the homework. And so I think that is why tapping into organizations like PFLAG, tapping into the publications that we offer, tapping into the monthly webinar program that we have called PFLAG Academy Online, tapping into the LGBTQ+ History documentary series on Discovery Plus or whatever it is, can be so important because while it's okay to ask questions, we can't expect our LGBTQ+ loved ones to be Google for us. We have the capability of doing the homework ourselves. And I, I think that so many people are afraid that if I don't know everything, if I don't know everything, if I'm not an expert on all things, I can't do anything. And I think we need to shift away from that mindset. Okay. And I think it would be great if everyone early on learned the difference between a word like bisexual and pansexual. Do I think you need to know the textbook definition of how those two words are different in order to be a good ally? No, I think there's lots of things that you can do without being able to say, this is what that word means, this is what that word means, and that this is how they're different. Like, right, you can be a really, really strong advocate and ally and also say I don't know, let's find out together.

Right.

You can still—

Absolutely.

Yeah, you can still be a really great ally and say, I don't know, but let me get back to you. And people get so hung up in I have to be the expert that it comes at the expense of actually taking action. And I'm not a huge fan of that.

No, I think it's very easy to just get frozen and then not do anything at all. Right. And that's the absolute worst thing you could do. It's far better to learn, make a mistake, apologize for the mistake, go back and figure it out. Um, you know, own the mistakes. That's like the best thing you can do because everybody's going to make them. Feels like in the moment, the worst thing you could possibly do, but it's really not. And I appreciate you saying all of that because I I'm a big believer in that as well.

And— Yeah. And one of the things that we have really been trying to reinforce over the last couple of years in the work that me and my team do regularly is that silence is an action. Mm-hmm. Every time you don't, like, if you are nervous about making a mistake, if you are concerned that by speaking up, people are gonna think that you are LGBTQ+, if you are quiet because you just don't wanna have an argument, every time you make the decision not to do something, that is an action. That is a choice that you are making. And for so many people, the thought process is not, mom and dad aren't saying anything because they don't wanna start a fight. It's mom and dad aren't saying anything cuz they don't love me.

Yep.

And like, silence is an action and we need to be very aware of that. And if we want to show up in more meaningful ways, we gotta push through some of that discomfort and some of that fear and some of that nervousness that comes around the possibility of making a mistake because silence is perceived as rejection.

Yeah.

Yeah.

1,000%.

Yes.

Oh my goodness. Yes. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. I like that you hit on being uncomfortable because it is uncomfortable to, to learn and to shift and to grow. And that is what your child or your loved one or your friend is also going through. Right? So you're— nobody's in this alone. It's just, it can feel very isolating. It can feel very much like you are alone, but the more that we do Speak up, ask or say the thing that we're like, I'm not sure if I'm gonna say this right. Like, it's so much better to just say the thing. I love this person. I love this kid. I'm probably not gonna say this right, but this is the way I feel. And let it come out messy. Messy is way better than nothing.

Yeah. We, we, we quote Ms. Frizzle in one of our workshops that we offer for parents and caregivers, really encouraging people to take chances. To get messy, to make mistakes, because that is where learning and growth happens. And I, you know, I think that especially when we are talking about relationships that we have with young people in our lives, we can also get hung up on the, like, well, if this kid gently corrects me, that's sometimes perceived as disrespect. And I'm not suggesting we need to let teenagers be disrespectful of all the adults in their life, but a gentle correction and saying, mom, they.

Right.

That's, that's not disrespect. That is just somebody telling you, this is what I need from you. And so that differentiation, I think, can also be very important for parents and caregivers.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think there's also this shift that I see slowly coming into, into play. I know I came from a generation where we didn't even think about correcting our parents or speaking up or saying anything. When my kids were very, very young, learning to shift out of that. And by the time they were like teenagers and young adults, you can learn so much from your kids and them saying something back to you or them sharing information with you is not them saying you're bad or you're wrong or you're, you know, it's, it's sharing a piece of their perspective in life, like the way that they've grown up. And the fact that they can say that to you is actually a compliment to you. Right. That you have given them this, whether it's a safe space or it is just the ability to be able to speak their truth, speak their mind. Yeah.

I think that, that one of the things you will find on the Creating Pride in Families resource is a lot of like the, the research, the studies, the demographics data that we use to inform the work that my team does in providing this education to various stakeholders at PFLAG. And we do see that a much larger proportion of young people of Gen Z identify as LGBTQ+ when compared to their millennial or their Gen X or their baby boomer peers. And there's oftentimes this question of like, well, well, why? And I think the answer is exactly what you were just saying is we have created families and communities and schools and workplaces where people have access to the language that they need to describe their own experiences, they're able to see happy and healthy role models that are people who are just like them, they have places where they feel safe and affirmed. I mean, that, that is, in my opinion, why we are seeing some of that increase. And that's something we should take pride in. That's something we, we shouldn't criticize. We, like, I'm so proud that in the last 20 years we've created space where that can happen.

I mean, right? Yeah. I, I think it's, it is absolutely phenomenal. There's a lot of other stuff going on out there that is not so cool and not so great, but it, doused this, right? If anything, I feel like it has made people have more resolve, has created more resilience, has had people come together. I think that initial fear has been like, okay, now we're, we're good. We are gonna come together. We are gonna fight. We are going to speak. And I think that is just incredibly valuable.

Yeah.

Jamie, this has been an incredible conversation. I have loved having you here. I'm, Wondering if there's anything else that you would like to share. I will give you the floor and give you the last few minutes here.

Yeah. I mean, because we have been talking about the Creating Pride in Families Resource Library quite a bit, I do just want to let people know that this is also meant to be a living resource. We do have intention of adding a couple things that PFLAG is going to create to support that work of creating a peer support group network for parents of LGBTQ+ kids in workplaces over time. And if there are resources that you think we should add, if there are resources that were helpful to you as a parent, if there were things that you would love to share with others, you can always reach out to the PFLAG team. It might take us a little while to vet things, but we are always open to that sort of feedback because we want this to be that one place that people can go. We want that to, we want it to be that repository. And in order for that to work, it has to be something that lives and grows and expands over time. So check back regularly because we will always be adding new things. And if there's something that you think could be of use to parents or caregivers that are like you, send them our way because we'd love to check them out.

Amazing. Amazing. I think that is so valuable. And I second that. I encourage— I always encourage people to reach out and say, hey, this is what works well. This is what worked well for me. So thank you for sharing that. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I am so glad we were able to have this conversation. And everyone listening, go check this out ASAP.

Thank you, everybody.

I want to thank Jamie again for being here, and I want to thank everyone at PFLAG National and everyone at PFLAG around the country for what you do every single day. It matters more than words can possibly say. If you want to explore creating pride in families, find a local PFLAG chapter or connect virtually through PFLAG Connects, head to pflag.org. The direct link to Creating Pride in Families resource library will be in the show notes. And if this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs it, a coworker, a fellow parent, someone who loves an LGBTQ+ person and who is still figuring out how to show up, because that's how this work spreads, one conversation at a time. Until next time, keep becoming more human and more kind.