Lunchtime Live with Brandi Wilson | Finding Hope & Healing After Your Marriage Ends | Holly Furtick

Welcome to Lunchtime Live. It is Wednesday, August. Oh, man. I don't know the date. Anybody know the date? August 15th. August 16th. Guys, today, after I get to have this amazing conversation that we're going to get to be a part of today, I am taking my oldest son to college. He's going to be a freshman. So all the prayers appreciated for you. For me? I'll pray for you. You pray for me. Anybody else out there ready to start school? That's such a weird question. Are we ever ready to start school? I mean, you're ready for your kids. Anybody out there ready for a routine? That's what I want to know. I want a regular routine. I want my kids to go to.

Bed at a certain time.

I want them to come home at a certain time, go to bed at a certain time, wake up at a certain time. I just want us to know what's going on every day. It's been a wonderful summer. I love summer. But I don't know. Let me know. Are you ready for school to start? Do you have all your paperwork filled out? I. I do not, but I'm getting there. All right, let me see who's on with us today. I had Jersey Mike's for lunch. It's noon on the east coast here, and I just had a little sub and it was delicious. And I'm so glad because sometimes I get on here and I haven't eaten yet. So let me know. Are you ready for a routine? And what'd you have for lunch? I don't know. Do you have a morning routine for your kids? Gloria says, I just dropped my daughter off to school. Fanny says I took my daughter to college last Wednesday. Stacy B. Says my nieces start today. Sixth grade and third grade. Courtney, your kids started August 1st. I think I'd be really sad if my kids started school August 1st because I am barely ready and my kids actually start. My. My younger two start next week. Let's see, we got. Terry is joining us from Indiana. We got Aubrey from. Oh, she didn't say where she was from. Aubrey Canfield.

Hello.

Happy afternoon to you, too. Sergio Sanchez says good morning. So I don't know where he's watching from. Bev says, praying for you and your family from your Iowa sister. Hello, Bev.

I wonder if it's cooler in Iowa.

Today than it is here in Charlotte, because it is. I think it's going to be a scorcher. Okay, so funny mom story. Before we get started, just for any of you that are feeling overwhelmed, my biggest mom fail was one year, I somehow forgot to get school supplies for one of my children. I took the other two to get school supplies, and then I never took the one until the night before school. So that was awesome. But that doesn't top. The worst story that I have heard lately is Elizabeth Hasselback. Do you guys know who Elizabeth Hasselback is? She used to be on the View. She told. I follow her on Instagram. And she told this story about how, you're not going to believe this. So her daughter, who's like, I don't know, probably 18, 19 now, when she was going to kindergarten, the day before kindergarten, they had the best day, and they went to the park and they ate lunch, had a picnic, and they talked about going to kindergarten the next day and. And how exciting it was going to be and all of that. And they. And they got home and Elizabeth got a call from her daughter's school, and they said, Ms. Hasselback, hi, we're just wondering if you're still planning to send Grace to kindergarten here. And she said, yep, we're all ready for tomorrow. We've got our outfit all laid out. We've already packed our lunch. And Grace is really excited. And they said, Ms. Hasselback, school started today. Did they miss the first day of kindergarten? So, guys, look, just. We're all doing a great job. We're all doing our best out there, and your kids are lucky to have you. That's what I want you to know today as we go back to school and welcome a couple more people. Stacy B. Is joining us today from Raleigh. Hello, Stacy, Mara, Rena, Ray, Raina from Southern California. She says it's very hot and her kids are in college. All right, Mara, send me all the recommendations. I'm trying to be. I'm trying to not buy too much for my son's dorm room because I realize I'm just buying that stuff for me and not for him. So, you know, hopefully I didn't get him. I'm not overpacking. Okay. Hi, Teresa. Glad that you're here. Jana. Nice to see you guys. We have a very special treat today. I've never done this before on a lunchtime live, and you all know I love books. I love to talk to people about their books, but I have never talk to someone about a book that is this specific. Today we are talking about the topic of divorce, and we're going to be talking with my friend Brandi Wilson. Oh, hold on. I got to get her book. Got it. Okay. We're talking with my friend Brandi Wilson. She has written this book called Better Than okay, and this book is about her journey through her divorce. And so if you're watching today, I want you to know that this discussion is for anyone who is going through a divorce, but also for anyone who knows someone who is going through a divorce. I got so much out of this book just personally, because although I've never been through a divorce, it's always important to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, and this book is just that. And Brandy kind of walks us through what. What experiencing a divorce and a separation was like for her and for her children and what she went through. I got to write the. I got to write one of the. What are these things called? Like, re. Recommend the book? What are they called, guys? No, it's not a review. It's like, you know, like a little, you know, like, recommendation or whatever. Anyway, I wrote this about Brandy's book, and I thought this was a really great way of saying it. If you're at the end of your marriage or at the end of your rope, my friend Brandy Wilson is a worthy guide on a journey you never thought you'd take. And I think that's the thing about divorce. We can pretty much say that none of us ever planned on taking that journey, but yet becomes a part of so many people's stories. Nobody, you know, plans a wedding and goes to the altar. And with in mind, like, oh, we're only going to do this for 10 years. We all plan to be married for life, and then life happens. And so I'm really excited to talk to Brandy today so that she can help us understand what this journey is like. And for those of you who are going through a divorce or separation, I know that this is going to be helpful for you today.

All right.

Brandy and I have been friends for, I think, 15 years, so I knew her before she was divorced, and I've watched her from afar afterwards. And I am so excited for you to meet her today. Are we ready to bring her on? Let's go. I can't wait for you to meet her. I'm here. How are you? I'm well. How are you? I'm good. Good.

I just. I'm. I'm thinking about you because I just moved my oldest son to college on Monday for his senior year, and I moved my middle son to college last Tuesday for his freshman year. So I did back to back days, and I was kind of a mess last Wednesday, I bet.

So, man, I really want to talk to you about. About all of this. I want to talk to you about your book, but maybe write a book for launching suns.

It just breaks my heart. And they're so happy. The fact that they're happy makes it easier, but it definitely changes the dynamic of my home for sure.

All right, so let me ask you this just. Just for fun. Yeah. You, your boys, did you send them with one set of sheets or two sets of sheets?

What's so funny is my freshman sons, his roommate's mother was like, I only have one pair of sheets. And I'm like, they're not going to wash them anyway. So. But I have a mom who lives down the street who has five sons, and her trick is she puts six fitted sheets on their mattress when she moves them in. And then, like, once a month or once every two or three weeks, she calls and says, take off the fitted sheet and put it in your laundry so that they have a clean one underneath.

So you only buy a fitted sheet, or do you have to buy.

I don't. I'm sure on Amazon. I feel like you can find anything on Amazon, so I'm sure you could find, like, six fitted sheets.

But. But, yeah. Did you do that for your voice?

No, no. I.

So I bought two sets of sheets, and then I went to go wash them the other day, which in and of itself, I know, is a problem. Right. But I'm just trying to set them up for success.

Right.

So I went to go wash the sheets, and I was like, wait a minute. He's not gonna. He's not gonna use two sets of sheets.

There's no way.

I mean, even if he happens to wash his sheets, he's not gonna think it all through. So I'm taking a set of sheets back. I'm saving myself 40 bucks, taking one set back, sending him. Sending him with one. And it's all gonna be good.

Yeah, it's gonna be great. He's gonna love it. But I do think, like, a lot of the stuff I was. I usually move them in and do a target run and then come back and finish. And with both the boys, I'm in target. I'm like, oh, we could organize using this, and we could organize using these hooks. And I'm like, they're never going to keep that. They don't in my home. So therefore, they're probably not going to in a dorm room either. So I have to, like you said, realize, what am I buying for myself and what am I buying for them? Yes.

And one of my friends said, she was like, for boys Just keep it simple. Make sure they've got a toothbrush and a comforter, and they should be fine. I understand that girls are a whole different scenario, but everything that I bought that was not. Oh, this is funny. My son Elijah is calling me right now.

My son Gage just called me. As you were doing the introduction, I was like, I can't talk right now.

So. Yeah. And so what I've told myself is everything that I bought, besides, like, his comforter and his toothbrush, was for me. And so, you know, and it might not come home.

So anyway, I was gonna say you might never see it again.

Or you might not want to touch it on, like, if I go help him, do you help your boys move home? That's, like, the really dirty job.

It's the worst. It is the. I mean, you. You think, like, did I raise an animal? Because I know I taught them better than this. Oh, my gosh.

I have a lot of people on here, and they did not get on here to hear us talk about our children. I want to talk to you. I want to talk to you about your book. Just give us a little bit about yourself. Tell everybody who you are, where you live. Give us a little bit about your boys.

Yeah. And you wrote an endorsement for me.

Endorsement. That's what it's called. Everybody's saying forward. I'm like, I definitely did not write the book.

I didn't have a forward, but, yes, endorsement. Yeah. I'm Brandy Wilson. I live outside of Nashville, Tennessee, in Franklin, which is kind of like a modern Mayberry. It's a very sweet little town, a great place to raise kids. I, in 1996, married my college sweetheart, and after three years of dating, and we started a church right out of college in a small town outside of Bowling Green, Kentucky. And we were there serving for five years. I was a pastor's wife at the age of 22. We had actually planted that church before or started that church before we got married. So I kind of functioned as a pastor's wife before we were even married. We served there for five years, and then in 2001, moved back to Nashville, just knowing that he was from here. My ex husband was from here. We had family here. We were expecting our first child, so we moved back to Nashville and then planted Crosspoint Church in 2002 and served there for 14 years. And I was in a role similar to what you get to serve in at elevation as the senior pastor's wife, founding pastor's wife. And honestly, I loved it. I loved being part of the Staff, community. I loved being, you know, the head cheerleader for the church. I was there for staff meetings and staff lunches and all the services on Sunday and really just considered it an honor that God would choose to use me to spread the message of his love through the local church. And then after 20 years of marriage, in 2016, my husband chose to walk away. And In September of 2016, he resigned from the church and walked away from that ministry and also walked away from our marriage and our family unit. So life as I knew it ended what felt like overnight. I think we are both aware when something publicly falls apart. It's been falling apart behind the scenes for a while, but it publicly fell apart in September of 2016, and I found myself going through a divorce that was finalized in March of 2017. And really, at that point, just trying to figure out how my kids and I could start over, how we could. You know, we ended up buying a house that was new to us, but how can the four of us redefine family? Like, nothing is missing.

Yeah.

And that kind of became our goal in our journey. And it was not easy. And there were lots of bumps in the road and lots of, you know, days I felt lost and had way more questions than I did answers. But in that journey, God also was super faithful to us and. And never left us.

Yeah.

It'S.

It's a crazy story because. And I know a lot of us, at least know someone whose divorce felt like, completely out of the blue and. And really sudden, and I know that it kind of felt like that for you, too. And all of a sudden like your life is just completely, as, you know, it just ripped. Ripped out from underneath of you.

Your.

Your job, your friendships, your. Your home, your neighborhood, your. Your. Your sense of, like, who you are, even, because.

Identity. Yeah.

To be a we. And now you're. And now you're a me. Yep. And one of the things that I loved in your book was when you talked about grief and grieving. Your grieving. Your what? What? Your marriage and what you thought your life was going to be. I thought it was interesting because a lot of times when we talk about grief, it's. It's mostly associated with.

With death, for sure.

There are so many things in life that we end up having to grieve. We grieve the way we. Things didn't turn out the way that we thought they would. Right. And one of the things that you said in the book was grow around your grief. Talk about that for a minute. Yeah.

I think you're exactly Right. Holly? I think lots of times we just attach to the death, the physical death of losing someone we love. And grief is just about loss. And, and honestly, I did experience the death of the dreams I had for my family, the death of the dreams I had for my marriage. But there was a lot of grief that I just didn't expect it to be quite as overwhelming and all consuming as it was.

Right.

So I think entering into what I was realizing was going to be a journey through grief in my head, I thought that grief would shrink over time. So like, let's say if I can represent grief with a softball, I thought that through my grief journey it would get smaller and go baseball size and then ping pong size, ping pong ball size and then marble size. And that wasn't what happened actually. What I started to realize is that the grief actually stayed the same. It didn't shrink. So let's say it's stays that size of a softball. What actually happened was instead of grief shrinking, I grew around my grief. And that was something that I did not expect to experience. I didn't expect grief to bring change and transformation in a way that actually made me more whole as I walked through it.

Okay, so what does that look like?

Well, I think it looks like a lot of things depending on, you know, what our life looked like. For me, I honestly, identity was huge for me, and I had to. And when I say identity, I don't even think it was an unhealthy attachment to identity. But I loved being a wife. I loved serving the church. Like those are things I enjoyed and really felt like God had created me to do those things. So I love being part of a family unit that had a mom and a dad. And for me, I had to really just kind of step back and reevaluate. Like, who am I? And one of the first things I had to start doing was just getting to know myself again. I, you know, I love being a mom and I kind of immerse myself in that life and, and immerse myself in the church life and immerse myself in loving my, my now ex husband really, really well. So what do I even enjoy anymore? And how do I want to spend my time? And, and now I have every other week, had every other weekend freeze since I was in college or, you know, whenever. So what does this look like to kind of have to reevaluate even how I spend my time in my community? You know, Crosspoint was a very large church at the time, so my community shrunk from Me being like, surrounded by thousands of people to, I talked to three people and my therapist on a regular basis. So I was really having to zero in on what does a new life look like. And I will say the one thing I felt pretty early on is when your life falls apart, the good news is you get to put the pieces of your life back together the way you want. So I became super intentional to think about what do I want my new life to look like and what do I need as I'm moving forward?

I, I, I'm just like, I'm loving hearing you talk about, about this, but I'm also thinking about there were days where you woke up and you were like, I don't, I don't know how to do this. I don't know, I don't know the way through. I don't know what I want. I want what I had. That's easier.

Yeah.

How, how did you go from. Because you, you grow around your grief.

Right.

The grief is always there, but you do have to, you have to choose to grow with it. Otherwise I feel like it just overtakes you. Yes. So how did you get through some of those days where you didn't even know if you could get out of bed and if, and for that matter, if anybody was going to care if you got out of bed.

Right, right.

It was devastating.

I had lots of days where I didn't want to get out of bed. I had days where I took my kids to school, came back home, pulled into the garage, put the door, garage door down, went straight up to the second floor. So if someone came to my door, they wouldn't think anyone was at home. Right. Like, I went to Kroger and wore a hoodie because I did not want people to ask me, check on me, acknowledge me, because of all of the emotions tied to it. So I definitely had those days. I think a turning point for me when it came to kind of shifting my perspective was I, I knew that God was still good. Nothing around me felt good. Life didn't feel good. I didn't know where I was going to live. I didn't know what life was going to look like, what I was going to do financially, how I was going to, I mean, I had way more questions than I had answers. And not long after my ex husband resigned, probably within a couple of weeks, I just remember thinking like, I do believe that God is still good. So what do I, how do I find the goodness of God when nothing around me feels good? And I just took, this is such A simple practice, but I just pulled, like, a journal off of my shelf. I took an orange Sharpie, and I wrote focus on the Good on the front of that journal. And I made myself, every night before bed, write down three to five good things where I could still find God's goodness around me on a daily basis. So I began to, instead of just seeing the bad, really search for good. And it was very simple things, Holly. Like, there were times I sat down at night. I'm like, I don't even know what to write. So it was small stuff, like, there was a beautiful sunrise, or I had ice cream with my kids. I remember one day getting to a point where I wrote, I got a new hair dryer. And I know that sounds really desperate, but in writing that down, it was a recognition of there will be new things to come. And I think I just needed that hope of there will be new things to come. Today is just a hair dryer. But I needed that promise of hope that there would be new things in my future.

Talk about the people that left your life and the people that came into your life.

Yeah, yeah, I. Yeah, it. A lot of people left my life. I will say, after lots of work with therapists and doing intensives and getting to a much healthier personal place, I have reconciled with a lot of the people who I was estranged from during the course of the divorce. I think, you know, when that happens at a church, there's no handbook on how to walk through this properly. So lots of relationships were severed, and I went months and months and months and sometimes years without talking to people who I dearly loved. And I have been able to really reconcile all of those friendships now, except for a few. But it's painful that the people that you raised kids with and you invited to birthday parties for your kids and you sat with it games, those people aren't in your life any longer. It's heartbreaking. So for me, I ended up talking to my best friend, lives in Vegas. Her name's Lori. Well, height, you know, Lori. And then Lisa Hughes was a dear friend of both of ours who I talked to with us today.

She is.

Hi, Lisa. And then I had a friend here who was 10 years ahead of me and had gone through a divorce that I talked to and my therapist. So for me, the fact that life shrunk and people left, it severely hurt me. And it also gave me a little bit of space because it was really hard to know that everyone was watching what was happening to me. So for me to just feel like I Have three people right now who are life giving friendships. That really helped me focus on, this is where I want to spend my time and this is who is showing up for me. So what is it going to look like to move forward and start all over when I have these three people around me? So that actually brought a lot of security. Having really solid support system, even though it was super small. It was a very solid support system.

Do you think that there were some people that you had to not have a relationship with? Because you're saying, like, I found my healthy people, but then you realize, like there were other people that for whatever reason, whenever you were with them or they were checking in on you, it just didn't feel life giving. How did you know? How did you know?

Well, I think you can discern. Our intuition can tell us when someone is there because they love you or when they're trying to just get, you know, the tea. I remember, gosh, it was probably within the first week, week and a half that he had resigned, that I had someone who I would have said was in my inner circle. A local person who texted me. I was at the dentist with my kids and she sent a text message checking in on me. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to give her an authentic response back. I know I haven't talked to her much through this, but I'm going to give her an authentic response because we do have a long shared history together. So I typed up a text that was very honest, telling her where I was. And within seconds the text came back to me with an explanation. And what I realized is that she was. She had planned on forwarding the information I'd sent her to someone else, but instead she goofed and she sent it back to me with an explanation of, oh, her therapist has probably told her to say this. And at that point I was just like, I, I'm done talking to people. I, I am shutting down. I, I knew that that person was not in it for me. They might say they loved me, but they weren't showing up the way that I needed them to show up. And I think, you know, there are friendships. Lori called me every day and she would legitimately say, I just need to hear your voice to know how you're doing, because she lives in Vegas and I'm in Nashville. I remember telling Lisa Hughes at some point, like, hey, you and Lori have permission to talk about me behind my back. Because repeating everything twice was exhausting. And Lisa's response was, oh, I know, we already do. And I Felt safe about that because I knew that was being done in love and that was being done in support and that was being done because they cared for me.

What are some things. Give us some practical things that people, if I know somebody who's walking through a divorce, give me some do's and don'ts. Yep.

Do not ask them questions about what happened because they might not even know the full truth themselves. Do not give them your opinion on what you think should happen in their marriage and do not ever blame them for what maybe they could have done better so that their spouse did not leave. I actually start one of the chapters later in the book is called Discarded. And I wrote curriculum to do a divorce group for some women. And we walked through that about 18 months ago. And as I was writing the book, I in that text group, I just said, hey, tell me some of the things that were said to you right. In the course of your divorce. And when I got that list back, my heart was broken because it's just shocking what people say, sometimes unintentionally, but often with intention of like, you know, if you would have been a better wife, he wouldn't have left. If you would have, you know, not talked so much, then he might have enjoyed being married to you more. So the issue of why they got to the point of walking through a divorce is never discussed. It's just someone telling them how they can improve or how they could have stopped this. So I think anytime you're asking questions, it's just overwhelming you at that point. You don't know what's next, you don't know what life's going to look like and what. When they start asking you questions about the future, you just get overwhelmed because you think, I'm an adult, I should know what is coming next for us. And I don't. One of the do's, I think, is to just give people options. I think when we are walking through something super traumatic in care, people will say, tell me what you need. And it's so hard to say what we need. And if I even know, I you probably not going to be able to give it to me. Right. So if you can give options of, for instance, you want to take someone dinner, you want to make sure they're fed. I had a girlfriend who every time I went to meet her for coffee, my friend who's 10 years older, we would meet for coffee and she would have like a plate there with grits and mashed potatoes and like all of these comfort foods because I was wasting away and Losing a lot of weight. And she was not just going to meet me for coffee, she was going to feed me. So I think when it comes to, like, a meal, give that person options. Hey, I'd love to bring you dinner. Do you want me to leave it on your porch so you can have some privacy? Do you want me to bring food over and cook for you? Do you want to come to my house? I can cook for you or we can meet at a restaurant. Tell me what works for you, because that gives that person who feels super powerless options, and they get to make a decision. And in doing that, they feel empowered. So options is great life advice.

Like, I, when I read that in your book, I was like, that is so helpful because it's, I mean, like, my sister recently moved from Greenville, South Carolina to the Charleston area, and we were talking about how, like, the most unhelpful thing somebody can say to you is, what do you need?

Right?

I'm not going to say, like, my sister is a family of seven. She's not going to say, well, dinner would be nice. She's not going to say, come help me pack my kitchen. Like, you're just like, when you've had a, when you have a baby, like, and somebody's like, what do you need? You're like, I, I, I don't know, I need help. And so when you offer people, it was just so great because there have been times where I'll even say to someone, can I bring you a meal? But, but, like, it's not even about the food, right? It's about the gesture. Just like, like, I don't care if you eat it or not, I'm going to drop it off on your porch. Do you want it at 6pm or 8pm yes. And like, being, like, showing up for a person and in a time of need like that, and even being the kind of person that doesn't, I don't, what I don't need is information.

Right?

Like, I don't need you to tell me, you know, how, how are you doing? Not good.

And I don't need you to send me what he's doing on social media. No, I don't need that. That hurts me instead of helping me. Yes.

I just, I just really loved how you said that. Giving, giving options. And I just feel, I feel so much empathy for anybody who feels shame. And I hate how there is so much shame, especially in the church associated with divorce. And it doesn't matter, like, if you were the person who, you know, ended the marriage or, or didn't end the marriage, or even if your marriage just ended, you know, irreconcilable differences, there's still shame that comes with that. I remember talking to, like, a person that was doing a service for me, and they went. Had attended church with their spouse, and he. In the course of the appointment, he told me, he was like, well, I haven't been to church because my wife and I got divorced. And I was like. And like, do you think you're not welcome? And he. He was like, it's just so hard for me to go without her and to think about what people are going to think about me or what questions they're going to ask me. And he said, I just have so much shame. And so he said, I just have so much shame that I just stay home. And it was so sad for me because I'm like, that's how shame wins. Yes, by isolating you. So how do you. How did you, like, break away from the shame? Because here you are. I mean, like, you've obviously, you've written a book, you're coaching women, you're helping people, and you're saying, I got divorced. I'm better than okay now. How did you move through the shame?

Yeah. And. And I love you asked that question. Because one of the things I started noticing when I started working with women who were walking through a divorce is when they start. If we're in public at a coffee shop, when they start talking about their divorce, their voice like, drops in volume of, oh, I got divorced three years ago. And then they'll go on in a regular volume for what they're saying next. And it's because of the shame that comes with that. And I think, you know, for me, I. That support system I had was so huge for me. And I do remember really early on, Laurie said to me, you know, a title might be gone, a role might no longer exist, but no one can take God's call on your life but him. And that reminder that I still had value in God's eyes was just, like, so good for my heart to hear. It gave me the encouragement of. Regardless of, you know, I'd lost a title, I'd also gained one. I'm now a divorced woman. That title didn't bench me. It didn't mean that I couldn't serve God anymore. It actually gave me a different perspective when it came to serving God. And then I think part of that was learning just how to step into my voice again. I. I remember the first time I actually said that. I, you know, was gonna go through a divorce and how hard it was to say it the first time. And my friend just setting me down and saying, like, okay, next time we're at dinner and someone asks you about your life, let's practice what you're gonna say instead of fumbling through an explanation of. Because I would say my husband, but we're separated. We're gonna. I'm gonna be divorced. And she was like, no, let's talk about, like, let's come up with a script of how you can say this. And you don't feel shame in the moment because you've practiced how you need to deliver where you are in life. So, like, having that answer helped relieve a lot of this shame that went along with having to say I was going through a divorce. And then, you know, that getting to know myself piece again was so huge for me to actually recognize that I really liked who I was and I was rediscovering that I really am enjoyable person and I enjoy people and I love people. Well. And I had been told for so long these lies that just bounced around in my head. So anytime I started to do something, I would hear this negative voice kind of speaking these lies over my life, like, I'm a bad time manager or I'm not a great leader and people don't like me. They just, you know, do stuff for me because of who I'm married to. And I kept recognizing, like, this is the voice of my ex husband. So I had to identify that voice and then start replacing it with God's voice. I even have a post it note in my primary bathroom hanging on the mirror that says, whose voice do I hear? Let it be God's, because we all have those voices, whether you're divorced or not. Maybe it's a coach or it's a teacher or a parent, but they spoke the negative things over you. And that's how we choose to live our lives is through the filter of that negative voice rather than the truth of God's voice in our lives.

I think one of the things that's really evident in your book is the work that you put into moving through all of these things. Moving through the grief, moving through the shame, and. And not allowing yourself to stop and be stuck. My husband is. He's going to release a book in February and it has all of these confessions. It's six confessions that you can write, stick on your mirror or whatever say. And one of them is, I'm not stuck unless I stop. And I feel like that was like a theme throughout your book of like, I'm not stuck, I'm going to keep moving. And it was everything from, from journaling and how much you talk about journaling to putting up post it notes, to being really purposeful with your schedule and, and you talked a lot about, I think you had a whole chapter on self care and self care is not, I think you said self care is not chocolate and massages. So tell me a little bit more about, about that because I think all of this is self care. Right? Like I have to own taking care of myself and especially in your position. Like, I can't even blame my husband anymore for not taking. He's not there. So the only person that can take care of me is me. So how did you take care of yourself?

Yeah. So I think it's really important for us to realize what feels like self care to each of us because I do think we want to define a blanket of self care for everyone. It's, you know, massages and getting your nails done. Well, that's maintenance. That's not necessarily self care. I enjoy those things too. But I started making a list of what I felt like was life giving to me and things that could happen now and things that I could see for my future. So like, honestly, Holly, this is so silly. But I love the coziness that comes with candles, especially in like the fall winter, you know, early spring when it's chilly outside. And I love candles and I would buy candles and I would not burn them until people came over and I'm like, I'm gonna start burning candles for myself. I am going to enjoy the coziness that I have created in my home, even if it's just me. I am going to buy flowers at Trader Joe's and not just think about doing it on down the road. I have a yoga teacher who is my favorite and every time I go to her class, it refreshes my body and my mind. So one of my self care things is I try her classes 40 minutes away from where I live. I try to make it at least twice a month because it is so life giving for me. I feel rejuvenated when I walk out. I have not only released toxins from my body, but also release them from my brain. So I think we have to really take an inventory of what feels like self care. How do I feel like I've loved myself well and, and be conscious of that as we're living our life. I'm actually an introvert. I'm super relational. So a lot of people Confuse me and think I'm an extrovert. But I actually need alone time to feel like I can show back up and fully be myself. So, yeah, I think self care is so important. And I thought it was this blanket that we all did the same thing and we felt better. And I had to really recognize, like, no, what makes Brandy feel loved and what makes Brandy. Like, what does Brandy need? Okay, I need three hours alone. I'm gonna make that happen this weekend.

Do you have any kind of self care that you don't actually like doing that? You know, it could be anything, like exercise or eating right or, you know, because I think a lot of times we think of self care as indulgences.

Yes, yes.

And there are other things that have like a long term effect on our well being.

Right, right. I. I would say I really love yoga. I'm not a super big fan of other exercise, so I was. It's so funny. I had my gym class this morning. I go to a gym that's like five minutes away. I work from home, so I work my. The rest of my team is in Vegas for the nonprofit I work with. So I work solo. And one of the things I make myself do is go to this class Monday, Wednesday, Fridays at 8 in the morning. Because that might be the only time I see people face to face in person during the day. So I see people, but it's on zoom. The majority of the people I see, I see them on a computer screen. So I make myself go to that class. And of course afterwards I'm glad I went. But it's physically for me and it's also mentally for me because it means I had to show up and see people and have conversation. Um, and going for walks is kind of the same way. I actually love a walk once I get on it, but I'm like, but, you know, I need to start dinner and oh, that laundry will be kicking off and oh, I really need to clean up my inbox. On email, I can always find an excuse. So I really have to make myself do those things. And in the process of doing them, I feel that refreshment that I'm looking for.

So, so great. Let's talk about kids for a second. Um, one of my favorite things that you said, and honestly, like, I wanted to shout this from the mountaintops, you said my healing has a direct effect on my children's healing. And I love that so much because I think especially as women, we have the tendency to worry and blame and focus on all the things that we can't control rather than the things that we can control. And in the book, you talked about realizing that, like, really the best thing you could do for your boys was work on yourself and let them see you healing through the process. What was that like for you?

Yeah, that almost felt like relief. Because I enjoy emotional work. It's not easy. Hard work is hard work. I also believe it's holy work. So I naturally, I was already with a therapist. I just continued that work of trying to get emotionally stronger again. I don't think I understood the impact it would have on my kids until I was already walking that path. And I had a therapist say to me, a child's resiliency is directly impacted by their parents ability to own their story, understand their story and communicate their story. And that was eye opening. Like, the biggest thing I can do for them is take care of myself emotionally. I was also told by my therapist that kids gravitate toward a healthier parent. So because they're searching for that, they want the stability of a healthy parent. So that became something that I just talked about. I talked about when I had therapy. I would talk about, you know, maybe things I was learning about myself that was appropriate to talk to your kids about. It even overflowed into their relationship with the church. I think, you know, that's one of the things that was really hard and is still hard in some ways in my kids life is when your dad is the pastor of a church and you are there serving one, attending one. All of that good stuff. Your community is the staff kids. My kids at that age, when this all started really unfolding at home, they would have been 9, 11, and 14. So at that age, they almost see God in the church as one. And I remember talking to a girlfriend of mine who is also a therapist, but I just said to her, like, I don't know how to teach my kids to love the church again. And she said, well, Brandy, your kids need to see you love the church. And I was like, oh, well, I do that. That I can. I think we always think this is going to be something we feel like we're not equipped to handle as their parent. And I'm like, oh, I was very clear on what happened was not the church's fault. It was that person's fault. Right. The church, they were also impacted greatly by what had unfolded. So I did still love the local church. I. I considered it, you know, God's sovereignty that two of my closest friends were also married to mega church pastors. And I got to see two Healthy men fill those roles as pastors and also as dads and husbands. So I was very clear. So when she said, look, they need to see you love the church, I'm like, oh, well, I'm already doing that. So I continued to do that post divorce. Even before I took my kids back to church, I visited lots of churches. I would tell them, hey, I'm going to church. I never would force it because I knew that, well, I had to learn to depend on God to do his will in their lives. I think we often will say for ourselves, like, yeah, I believe that nothing is wasted and God can use pain for purpose, but when it comes to allowing that to happen in our kids life, that's really difficult. So I had to just say like, okay, God, I depend on you to do your will in their lives and you are capable of using their pain for your purpose. And really just modeling what a relationship with God looks like for them to.

Be able to see that it's beautiful and it's, it's simple, but it's not easy.

Yeah.

And I love, I love the idea of like, I mean, even for anyone.

Right?

Like, oh, I want my kids to love the church. Well, right. How many times a week do you take them? You know, are you in any group? You want your kids to be in a small group? Are you in a small group? Do you like modeling for them? It kind of sets you free, but then it, it also like, sets you up for a lot of personal responsibilities.

For sure.

One of the things that you talked about with your kids was creating new memories. And, but you also said like, let, like not. I can't remember exactly how you worded it, but it was something about not letting like old memory or certain spaces be off limits.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think you have to, you know, create new memories in order to replace. Because, you know, a lot of the, the traditions of like where you go on vacation and what you do at Christmas time and right. Have Thanksgiving, a lot of those are consistent every year because we're wanting to create those memories with our kids. And I think, you know, it's really hard for kids to dive back in after change. So you have to figure out when they're developmentally ready for that. But I think that you have to provide new memories in order to replace the old. And you know, our beach vacation that we did every year was an example of that. And we went the same time every summer just around sports and practice and that kind of stuff. And that first summer being like, okay, I'm Going to take my kids back to the beach. I'm not going to stay at the same beach house we've stayed or even in the same community we've stayed in for, you know, 14 years. I'm going to try somewhere new, but it's going to be in the same area. It's going to feel familiar, but help us create new memories. Because I think I had this fear that every time we do something like that, that it was going to be like, oh, we're missing a person who used to be in our family. And I didn't want that to overshadow everything. So we even I, with my oldest son, when he turned 18, he wanted a tattoo, and I, I okayed that, and he had to pay for it, but I okay that, Holly. But I. The last tattoo I had gotten, I had gotten with my ex husband about a, you know, things fell apart, and I didn't realize until I was in the tattoo parlor with my son and all of his friends were there. And because he's the, you know, oldest of the crew, so he's the first one getting a tattoo, and all of his friends are there. My other two kids are there, and one of the moms is there. And I just realized, like, this is a new memory for me to be in a tattoo parlor, but with my child, where the people who love him are around him and showing up. So it allowed me to replace that old, hurtful memory with something that was much greater and much more. It.

I just, I love it. And I, I, I, I love that you are sharing this with people, because I think it's just, I think especially in the church world, it's not something that is talked about enough. And giving people a way to walk through these painful situations in a, in a godly way. Yeah. All right. So somebody asked in the comments. I didn't get to catch their name, but they asked, how do you know when it's okay to date again?

Yeah, it's so funny. I did a whole chapter on dating, which felt really vulnerable because I've been single for six and a half years, and I've done a lot of first dates and not as many second dates. I think sometimes we put too much emphasis on going on dates. The world is very different now at 48 and dating than it was when I was, you know, 18 and dating. But honestly, I think it's okay to recognize that sometimes you're going on a date for practice. You have not done this in a long time. It's okay for you to go and meet Someone for dinner or lunch and just know, I don't know that this is going to go anywhere, but I'd really like to just go out and see what it's like to have conversation with someone of the opposite sex. So it's okay to date for practice. It's okay to date even for self confidence. I think, you know, one of the things that helped me recognize when I was at a different point in dating was before I walked into a restaurant or coffee shop, I would legitimately stop outside the door and say to myself, they are so lucky they get to spend the next 60 minutes with me. Because so much emphasis in our heads is put on do they like me? Do they like the way I look? Do they like what I have on? Do they think I'm interesting in conversation rather than just taking the time to reflect and think, do I even like them? We spend much more energy and time thinking about whether they like me rather than do I like them, Do I even want to see them again? Do I see this going somewhere? I think, you know, sometimes we date too soon. I might have gone out on a couple of dates too soon, but I had been so rejected. I just wanted to see what is it like, is someone gonna wanna spend time with me again? But I think a switch for me was when I recognized like they're really lucky to get to spend 60 minutes with me. And of course that's like, I don't say that with any arrogance as much as it's just like a confidence boost of like I'm, I'm a really lovely individual. And if this is nothing than an hour lunch, it's an hour well spent because we're getting to get to know one another. So I met a lot of really nice men. They weren't matches, but I met some nice men that I was glad I got to think outside of my box of what was my typical type and try something new.

I, it was so great to hear you talk about that. And I think to even walk people through like this was another step in, for, in your journey of, of making yourself better, of like practicing the post it notes right, you know, and, and saying like I'm worthy and I'm worthy of, of having a conversation, going out to dinner, going on a date. And it's just like, I think that's what I loved about the book is just reading about all of the hard work that you did. And I think it gives so much, so much hope to people who are going through that really, really tough part at the beginning where you have more questions than answers. And there's so many great answers in this book and it's just so wonderful. So it's better than okay. Better than okay by Brandy Wilson. And you can get this anywhere books are sold.

Yeah. Barnes and Noble. Yep.

I found out the other day that, like, I think 80 or 90% of books are purchased on Amazon.

I am not at all surprised. It is my go to place.

It's just so easy. So okay. Better than okay. It's on Amazon. Brandi, you also have like a coaching network. I do tell people about how they can get more from you if they just really felt connected and they want. And they want a little bit more. Yep.

I work with people all the time who I actually work in a couple of different avenues I love. One is divorce. People who are walking through divorce trying to figure out how to start again and do coaching with them. I can take them through the curriculum I've written, which kind of follows along with better than okay. I also work with a lot of ministry leaders. I was a pastor's wife for 20 years, so I love when I get to work with ministry leaders who are struggling. Maybe they're battling burnout or loneliness, trying to find friendship. I get to do coaching with them. So I can be contacted@love brandywilson.com Brandy with an I or on Instagram, Love Brandy Wilson. And I'm on Facebook as well.

Awesome. We're gonna put that in the description so you can. You guys want to catch those? Just pop down the description. And Brandy, thank you for having the courage to share your story and put yourself out there. And I am just praying blessings on you on your boys, on this book and all the people that it's going to touch and just all the people that you're touching. I'm just really grateful for you and to have examples like you of women who are doing the hard work on themselves. So I love you. Thank you for.

I love you too. Thank you for this time together. We never get to have lunch together.

I know.

That was awesome.

All right, well, pray for me this afternoon because I'm doing the big do it.

Bless your heart.

Tomorrow morning. We're leaving today, but we leave him tomorrow.

So.

Okay.

Well, listen, call me if you need anything because I have done it a couple of times and I think I was surprised how my home changed with just one kid at kids exiting it.

So I will thank you.

All right, See you. Good luck.

All right, thanks.

Bye.

Bye. All right, guys, so you can pick up your copy of Better Than okay on Amazon. I am going to give one away. And let's see, Ashley has recommended that we give. How many copies do we have?

Two.

I've got two copies. So I'm going to give one to Susan Cruz and one to Raquel Dills. So Raquel, if you're on, and Susan, if you're still on, I hope you're still on, you need to email Holly Furtick youtubeelevationchurch.org Holly Furtick YouTube There it is. It's in the chat. Holly Furtick YouTube@estovalchurch.org Tell us that you won the book and we're going to send one to you. And I'm going to do a backup person just in case these ladies aren't on. And we'll find a third copy to Carrie Murphy. All right, Carrie Murphy. Holly Furtick. Sorry. Holly Furtick YouTube@elevationchurch.org and did I say.com before? Okay. And we're gonna get that copy to you guys. If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure you like. And if you want to know more next time we're having another live conversation, make sure you subscribe. And most importantly, if you know somebody that you think would benefit from this conversation, make sure that you click the share button because I am just so excited for so many people. I was going to say women, but men and women who are walking through a divorce to be able to hear some of just the amazing, helpful, practical content that we got from Brandy today. Make sure you pick up her book and give a copy to a friend maybe who you know is going through a divorce. So I love you. I will see you at church on Sunday. My husband has been preaching like a preaching maniac. We got the God of. Also the God of after was this past weekend the God of. Oh no, what was the other one? There were two other ones already. And again, look how those just came to me. So we'll see you at church on Sunday. You can join us live from wherever you are in the world. 9:30 Eastern Standard Time at the Elevation Church YouTube and I'll see you back here next time. Hey, if you have somebody you want me to interview that has a good book, shoot me an email Holly Furtick YouTube elevationchurch.org and we'll check it out. Okay, Have a great afternoon.