Lunchtime Live with DawnCheré Wilkerson | Holly Furtick

We are talking with my friend, Dawn Cherie Wilkerson. I am so excited to have a conversation with her. She is a great friend of mine. I can't wait to introduce you to her. If you don't already know her. If you do know her, you know, she is wonderful woman. She is an incredible preacher and she is killing it for the kingdom on this Monday. So I think that we should go ahead and get Dawn Cherie on here. Are you guys ready for Don Cherie? Also, don't forget, stay on all the.

Way through the end.

And we'll be giving away at least one, maybe more than one tote. Hi, Don Cherie.

Hey, Happy Monday.

How are you Monday? I'm good. I'm feeling really good. So I'm happy about that.

I have my. I have my ear buddies in. I feel like the only time I wear these are when I'm talking to you. You've inspired me over the last few years. You're committed to these things and I'm learning.

I don't go anywhere without those things. I don't leave my home without them. And I carry them around with my phone constantly. I'm not using them today, though.

It's awesome. I loved hearing you talk about Sunday. I love how passionate you are about Sunday. It's insane.

How was your Sunday?

It was good. It was good. I preached all day yesterday and it was. Yeah. And it was the first time Sunday. So we just started week to week. We've been wanting to for a long time, but we just got building. It's a miracle. We're so grateful. First building we've ever owned to actually gather in.

And it looks so good, by the way. I haven't told you this, but I love the sage. I love the brightness. I love. It looks so fun and so exciting.

It's really fun. And it has a courtyard and people linger and hang and like, you know, this is really only the third week in a row that we've met. So special. And I haven't preached four services in a Sunday in a long time, in a year. And so it was good. It was good. I felt it. I felt it a little more than normal because I'm super pregnant. I can't show you my belly on here. Hello. There's my baby bump.

So you and your belly reached and what did you preach about?

I preached. Well, we've been at vu, so we pastor in Miami. We've been here for five years planting a church. I've actually been in Miami for 14 years, but we've been Since January in our community, talking about the Book of Mark. So literally just going from the beginning through. And so I was right there at mark chapter 10. We've been there for a few months now. Yeah, we were in Mark Chapter two. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I loved it when you're talking about. So the Book of Mark. We're all focused and parked there and talked about Jesus exchange with James and John and with Bartimaeus and. Yeah, thank God for Sundays my kids were in church. It was awesome.

Mark, chapter 10 is blind Bartimaeus. That's one of my favorite stories in the New Testament.

It is.

I love it. That's what you preached on.

Yeah, I preached on that. And then the conversation right before.

I cannot. I've been telling God that I want to preach on blind Bartimaeus, but I.

Don'T preach as much as you, so you need to do it. I love it every single time you preach. And I love this. Thank you for having me on today. I really love it. Thank you for being on.

This is amazing. This is like. I feel like we're just going to let people have, like, a little window to our friendship. Not really, though, because I'm going to ask you questions that I know a lot of the answers to, but so let's have some fun first. And I'm just going to ask you, like, a couple of, like, fun, easy questions. So just to get things started. Everybody knows I love fiction. Do you prefer fiction or nonfiction?

Okay, I prefer nonfiction. My family loves fiction and I want to get into it, but I haven't. And so, yeah, to be honest with you, I don't read a lot of fiction, but I hear it's incredible for your creativity. It's great for your brain. Like, there's a lot of really good benefits. So I've been telling myself, don't you. We need to go in this direction. I loved fiction when I was younger, but I think especially over the last, like, four years, I haven't. But you inspired me to do it. I need to do it. And when I do, I'm coming to.

You for the book list and the AirPods.

Yeah, and the AirPods. Oh, because you do audio. I'm such a paper person. You know that I'm a paper person that I'm trying to get into audio. Rich is really into audio.

I love a good paper book in bed. I love a paper book on the beach. But I will get into a book and then I'm like, I can't all day long wonder what's gonna happen in this book. And so I love my AirPods. I think it is, you know, for me it's like, it's a vice, but a good vice. It's like something that keeps my mind off of worrying about things or stressing over things or overthinking things because I just have a story with me all the time.

So do you fast forward it? Do you make it faster?

Well, okay, so if the book, if the book isn't good, I. And I still want to finish it, then yes. So actually I just finished an epically long book. It's like a 600 page book. I'm not going to even tell anybody the name of it because it wasn't good enough to recommend. But I wanted to know how it ended. So I. And it was like 30 hours audible. I listened to it at 1.4 speed and so that's how I was able to get through the story a little bit faster. But then I started a new book last night and at normal speed because I like the book and I like the pace and the reader and all those wonderful things.

So.

All right, so you like nonfiction. Do you have a book, fiction or nonfiction that you have read more than once?

Yeah, I do. I have a couple books that I've read more than once. I love Paul Tripp's book Dangerous Calling. I love that book. I've read it a lot of times for people in ministry. I think it's a good heart check. There's another book that I love and it inspired the book the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. And it's called, I think it's called Soul Keeping. And I mean, it's. I've given it away so many times and I've marked it up so much. And it's based off of Dallas Willard's quote that, you know, following Jesus is about the ruthless elimination of hurry. And it's just a good soul check. So those are two of my faves. But yeah, I am that person. Like, I like watching movies over and over again and I always have been like that. Like, you've got mail. I remember as a kid watching that a million times. So when it comes to books that I love, I think I'm the same way.

All right, I wrote down soul keeping because I'm gonna have check that one out. Incidentally, talking about movies that you watched a lot as a kid, I loved Anne of Green Gables. Did you?

Yes. Love Anne with an Eve.

Abby and I started that book last week and we are so into it because Ann is one of the greatest characters ever created.

I Totally agree.

Abby absolutely died laughing and keeps quoting the line where Anne says, my life is a perfect graveyard of buried hopes.

She's so dramatic. Also, speaking of Abby, Anne, not Abby.

Yeah, well, Ann and Abby. Abby asked me what I was doing today, and I said, well, I'm interviewing D.C. on YouTube. And she goes, oh, can you take me out of school early so that I can listen to it?

Because I love her.

Abby loves Don Cherie. I love our questions here. All right, so a little bit faster. If you could only read one of these two books, which one would you pick? Genesis or Revelation?

Genesis.

Yeah, me too. I'm not a big fan of Revelation because I'm not a fan of family.

I'm reading a book on Revelation right now, and it's making me love it more. I really am. It's called Discipleship on the Edge. But I love Genesis. Yeah, pulls me in.

Okay, what is your favorite comfort food?

Oh, my goodness. Everything is a comfort food right now. But pasta for sure. I love, love pasta.

Pasta with red sauce or white sauce or pesto.

I like all three. I love. I had a great pesto this week. I made a good olive oil and butter and parm sauce the other night. I like them all. I just love pasta. It's the Italian in me for the.

First time last week, and it was.

You've taught me a lot of good recipes. Also your oatmeal, you know how I feel about it. That's also big time comfort. I had three bowls of that before.

So I think that's comfort at my house. Yeah, you did. That's funny. The oatmeal is a really. It's a great recipe, and I don't think we did it on Instagram. I don't think I've shared it on YouTube before, but when recently we were at an event and there were a lot of other women in ministry and Priscilla Shire, I went up and I gave her a hug, and she goes, thank you for your oatmeal.

That's how I feel about all of you because Priscilla gave me the best recipe for my boys for ribs in the slow cooker. And the oatmeal is a slow cooker too. I'm a huge slow cooker fan, so thank you, Priscilla. Thank you, Holly.

All right, what is your go to meal to cook if you have people coming over?

Oh, okay. I have a new one. Manuin is a soup, but it's hearty enough for all the men that I feed on a constant basis. My brothers, my husband, my boys. I grew up Loving this soup called aga limono soup. It's an egg lemon based Greek soup, and it has chicken in it. And my friend who's a part of church, I would post that I was cooking all during quarantine, and she kept telling me, you got to learn Greek. She's Greek. She's like, you've got to learn to cook Greek food. So one of my first gatherings, she shows up with the biggest legit Greek cookbook. And I actually learned how to cook AGU limmeno. And it's so easy. There's like five ingredients, and it's done.

So is it like egg drop soup but with Greek flavors?

No, it's like you boil a whole chicken in water, and then it turns in the broth. And then you throw your carrots and your potatoes, whatever you want your onion in. And then at the end, after it's really cooked well and you've pulled the meat off the bone, you stir, you whisk. I would have never thought of this. Lemon and egg together, and you pour it in. So kind of like eggshot, but it makes it creamy. And then at the end, you do your cracked pepper and your cheese or whatever you want to do. But it's good. It's really good.

You know what we should do? We should cook Together Live on YouTube.

I'm in.

And you can. Do I make your soup?

No, you need to teach me your ways. You need to teach me something. Let me ask you. I'm gonna learn how to make your biscuits.

The recipe on the back of the bisquick box.

Yeah. No, you make them homemade.

Okay, that's really funny. All right, but back to the soup. Do you think you could cheat and not boil the chicken, but use chicken broth and rotisserie chicken?

Totally. And I've read a couple of those cheats online. Like they say, just buy the rotisserie, get the chicken broth and. But it's not like that much harder to me. I thought it would be that much harder. But if I'm home and taking care of the boys and I just throw the chicken in water, it's kind of done. I lost my buddy.

There's something about a whole chicken that's.

Kind of gross to me.

I don't know. I don't really cook. I've never cooked a whole chicken before.

And I think you should stick with the rotisserie. He never cooked a whole chicken before. You're the master chef.

I never cooked a whole chicken or a turkey.

Let's do it. We'll do it together. Okay.

All right. So who is your favorite person on social media that you follow that you don't know?

Oh, my goodness. That's a great question. You know who I loved for years, I love. Her name is Ariel, and she had the handle something navy. And she has two girls. And I think probably a lot of women follow her. If you're watching right now. I just think she's awesome. She actually came to Miami this past year, and I got to meet her briefly, and she was so kind and Rich was laughing because, you know, like, for me, if I meet somebody and I. And I followed them, I just want to tell them from the beginning, like, I can't play it cool. So I was just like, hey, I love you. I love the way you love your kids. I love your style. I love, like, I love watching, you know, everything that you share with the world. And so it was cool to be able to tell her that I enjoyed it.

That's really awesome. I don't follow her. She's just like a lifestyle.

Like, yeah, it's like, it's like fashion stuff. But she's got two little girls, and, you know, I have two little boys. And so it's fun to see, like, her. Her belly growing and how she's sorting all of that. It's just been fun.

That's amazing. I'm trying to watch our comments pick up, but they nobody. The comments are super delayed today and nobody has told me that they know who she is, but I'm sure.

Am I allowed to ask questions? Who is your favorite? Because I want to know.

You know, like, I follow back to cooking. I follow a lot of cooking people that I don't know. So, like, like Danielle Walker. Do you know who she is?

No, but I need to follow her.

She had a cookbook called Against All Grain, and I don't know, I follow her. I like her recipes because they're like, grain free and dairy free. And, you know, my husband doesn't eat carbs, and so I like to modify some of her recipes. So I follow her. I follow a lot of celebrities. I'd be interested to know what celebrities you follow that you don't know. Like, I love Jennifer Garner. Jennifer Garner is probably my favorite follow of people that I don't know.

I don't follow her. I need to.

Okay. She has this little segment that she calls pretend cooking show, and she'll make, like, little things in her kitchen, and she's super funny. So I love Jennifer Garner. I love Drew Barrymore.

I need to follow them. I Love Drew Barrymore. I don't know why I don't follow her.

Oh, you don't follow her. She has a show now, a talk show. And so she posts clips of her talk show a lot. But then she also posts her outfit every, every, not every day, but like every time she does a show or whatever, every episode she posts herself in her outfit. And then she'll post like, who the designers are, but then she'll do like, where you can find a. What do you call it? Like a dupe.

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A dupe. I love it. She'll.

She'll say like, you know, my boots are ysl, but you know, here's. You can also get something similar at Aldo or whatever. And she'll do like a little, a whole, like, do the outfit. So I like that.

So cool. She does so cooking. I like New York Times cooking. I know we gotta move on. There's more. I know you like New York Times cooking. I really like New York Times cook.

Telling me to follow that. I keep forgetting it's like five something.

Feed52. Are there any Food52 fans watching? I'm a fan. I love it.

Okay, we have some Jennifer Garner fans. Somebody says, what about Trisha Yearwood? I don't follow Trisha Yearwood.

I'm down for it. I like her.

I love following celebrities on Instagram. I don't know why. Okay, so what is something that got you through the pandemic? It could be like bigger scales.

Cooking. Cooking period. Like cooking. Making healthy salads every day, feeling that creative outlet because all of us were glued to our phones, like more than we would like to admit because we were stuck in our homes. And so when you are cooking, you can't be on your phone. And I think that is where I really fell in love with cooking. I haven't always loved cooking. The first few years of our marriage, we didn't. I didn't cook a ton. I did some crock pot things. But I feel like I found this routine because I was at home of how to buy groceries, how to fix meals for my family, how to prep it. And then there's this sense of accomplishment. Even if you haven't gotten to leave your house, which none of us did, you know of putting a great meal in front of your family and seeing them enjoy it.

I totally agree. I also think that cooking is a really vulnerable thing to do. And so on one hand, it's a good practice in, in putting yourself out there. But I think that's one reason why a Lot of people don't like to do it because there's a vulnerability factor, too. Even cooking for your family, when we sit down and everybody's, like, eating, and I'm like, yes, does anybody like this dinner? Or again, and even just with your family, where you feel safe. But then when you take it outside the realm of, like, making a meal, having people into your home and making a meal, that's why I always like to ask, like, what's something that you cook when people come to your house? Because I don't like to cook for people when they come to my house.

I'd rather.

I'd like to make a dessert.

I cater it.

Yeah. Because it's so vulnerable. And even if it's something you've cooked many, many times, it might not turn out. And then you're, like, embarrassed or you feel bad for. And you're like, you know the whole thing.

I know. I've had that feeling a million times. Like, I usually make this corn and shrimp chowder for Christmas for H's family. And it's like, something that every year I make, and it's special and it's fun, it's easy. But this year, I decided to make gumbo. And I love gumbo, but, like, you know, rice and fish and all this stuff, like, sometimes it just doesn't go the way you plan it. And so it's not a great feeling when you're like, this is not the result like, that I wanted. So I feel you on that. The other thing that I think got me through the pandemic were walks, which is a big part of our life. We throw our kids in our stroller. Wyatt is three, Wild is one, and we just go. And this week, I still take them on walks several times a week. It's a big part of our lives. But this week, I actually, like, put their dinner. It was like, 5pm Rich was out of town this weekend, and I had the kids, and I'm like. I put their dinner in the stroller with them, and I'm like, this is genius. We can walk while they eat. By the time I get home, we've already eaten, and I can throw you in the bathtub. Like, it was a hack. This week. It was a breakthrough.

That brilliant hack. A lot of people, they're agreeing with you about nature walks, and a lot of people are saying, Netflix got them through.

Oh, heck, yeah.

So, okay, you're in your third trimester.

Yeah.

Which is so exciting when I ask people what questions they wanted me to ask you. I had a Lot of people ask if you were gonna share the name, and I'm like, no, she's not gonna share the name. Like, what?

I will when she's born. Come around July. Yes.

Can I tell everybody, though, that I know what the name is?

Yes, absolutely. And it starts with a W, so. And then everyone's surprised.

I'm not telling either.

You're the best.

Okay, so we're not sharing the name, but have you had any weird cravings?

I just. I had. Somebody asked me that today. Not today, but yesterday in the courtyard. I'm at work right now. And the truth is, I just love food whether I'm pregnant or not. And so I haven't had any weird cravings. You know what happened to me this time? That has never happened to me. I had food aversions. Like, I love pickles. I love pickled okra. I like pickled green beans. I like anything pickled. Like, I'm going for it. And probably for the first 20 weeks, I couldn't come near pickles.

Interesting.

And it came back, remember? Because I sent you the picture. I was on the way back, I was in San Francisco, and I went to the grocery store, and they had pickled salsa. You guys, there's a thing called pickled salsa. It's incredible. It's the best thing ever. I got tortilla chips. Yeah. At Publix. Tortilla chips and pickle salsa.

I'm definitely gonna try that.

You need it.

I love pickled anything. Have you ever pickled anything yourself?

Yes, when I was younger.

I like to pickle onions. Red onions.

Oh, I do that too. I didn't think about that. That is pickling. Yes. They're great.

Okay, so no, like, weird cravings or anything? I never had any weird cravings with any of my pregnancies either. I didn't have any cravings at all until I got pregnant with Abby.

And.

And all I wanted every morning, first thing when I woke up was a big glass of orange juice. And I would, like. It would taste like. You know how sometimes when you're pregnant, like, things just. They taste extra good or extra.

Yes.

But, like, orange juice was like the. It was like Jesus and orange juice.

I have to eat right when I wake up. For all the pregnant women, it helps. I have cereal right when I wake up. And then my new thing is decaf Earl Grey tea with some creamer in it. Vanilla creamer. And it's like your own homemade London fog.

I love Earl Grey tea. Lots of people are guessing your W name right now. Go for it got Willow, we've got Whitney.

Those are great names.

Those are great names. Abby really wants you. I'm not going to say it'll give it away, but anyway, I love that she has.

What does she want?

She has a strong opinion about. About your baby name the doctor about it. You should. Okay, so let's just keep talking. So you're talking about pregnancy and a lot of people who know, you know that you struggle with infertility for eight years. So what is something that God, what. What do you think is like? I feel like when you walk through a difficult season, especially a longer season, a lot of times you come out on the other side with some faith lessons that will carry you the rest of your life. So what's one or two things that God taught you during that season?

I think that that was one of the most precious seasons of my life. I wouldn't take it back for any. Anything. We often say God's close to the brokenhearted because that's what he promises. But I think that's when it became a reality for me for the first time. Like, I felt like those eight years, you just sense the whisper in your heart when you have a broken heart, when you have a longing, when you feel like, oh, I can't make the dreams in my heart come to pass. So we went through infertility for eight years. We were actually married for 12 years when we had our first child. Wyatt. Wyatt Wesley Wilkerson. And so those eight years were eight years of real infertility. I mean, when the clock starts ticking, that's the day. It was my 25th birthday. Doctor hands me an infertility card is like, you're going to have trouble. You need to go see a specialist. And that's kind of when I start that eight year period. I think there's a lot of things, a lot of things that I would take away. One of the biggest moments in my life was realizing taking the focus off of me, getting what I needed and realizing this is an eternal soul that God has a plan for that he's decided when the child needs to come into history and so I can trust him. And it's less about me and more about this baby. God's plan, when I really believed that, it actually took the pressure off of me and it allowed me to trust God and it allowed me to just trust the process, trust the pace. Like, there would be times where I would go, I need you feel like you need to rest. I need to. There are times that you are. We need to be Intentional about trying to make this happen, you know, like just trusting the pace and knowing that you, it's not the only thing that I'm running towards. Like, I have a mission. I feel called into ministry. I feel called to my marriage, feel called to my family and the people that God's placed around me. And so my life is not centering around having a child because that's when I think obsession creeps in. And man, like one thing I learned really quickly is there's a lot of people obsessed. You can fall into that. Conversations, online threads, message boards of women who are so frustrated with their husband, criticizing him, putting him down, you know, just tearing their marriage apart in this quest for a child. And it's ugly. And I had to go, I'm not going to have any part of that. And I really have to guard my inputs. Like there were a lot of times I've had moments where I thought I was pregnant, the pregnancy test was positive and it wasn't real. And so you have these highs and you have these lows and you have moments of loss. And I had to really guard my input. Like I really feel like the Internet and well meaning people, they can both be very dangerous. And so like searching, you know, for things that you're experiencing, like you're gonna find a myriad of things that are actually not true. And so I had to guard, I had to really guard my heart in that time.

So we have a mutual good friend, Jenny Lusto. And yeah, gosh, I love her so much, she's amazing and she, everybody, most people know her story, but she lost a child who was five years old and she went to heaven. And one of the things that Jenny has really helped me with is how to talk to someone who has lost a child. So one of the things that she said to me that I will never forget is that it means so much to her when people say, say Lenya's name. And for me as a person who like, I don't like to make people upset, you know, and so when you have somebody who has lost a loved one, I always wondered, like, I don't want to bring it up because I don't want to make, I don't want to make them upset. But for her, when, when, and it's not like all the time, but just to say something about Linya, it's very meaningful to her. So where I'm going with this question, I have a reason for why I'm saying that. Is there anything that people said to you that was when you're in the middle of this eight year journey of infertility, was there anything that somebody said to you that you were like, that was exactly what I needed to hear. Or anything that, like you say to people who are struggling on their journey of infertility?

Yeah, I think it's a tricky thing because it's such a personal part. First of all, physically, it's a personal part of your body, your anatomy. It is a private journey. And for me, there was a feeling of vulnerability and insecurity that I felt where I wanted to fix it before anybody even knew there was a problem. And, and everybody's journey is different, but for me, it took me six years to share it publicly, and it took me a year to share it with my parents, just because I kept thinking, like, I'm just going to take care of this. This isn't going to be an issue, you know? And so what I would say to people is create space for conversation, but don't pry. I would say, like, you don't have to feel the need to constantly speak faith. You are bringing faith to the table just by being present and being a friend. And I think for me, on my journey, there were people that were very patient with me, and those are the people that I gravitated towards, people who didn't bring it up all the time, but who were there for me, people who showed up, who were there. And I also think that, you know, in a lot of ways, when you're walking through this, sometimes church can make you feel the most vulnerable. And I think that that's what I've learned as a pastor, is that I want to pray for infertility. That even I remember, seven years into my journey, right before I got pregnant, I was at a conference with people that I loved and I was participating, I wasn't speaking. I'd gone there to hear from God. My sister is on my left, Destiny, my best friend, my mom. And I mean, there are, we use this word triggers, but there are moments that just, they just come from nowhere. And the pastor, who I love, said, if you're dealing with infertility, I want you to stand right now and we're going to lay our hands on you. And then I don't get overwhelmed very often, but it just wasn't where my mind was that day. And I wasn't prepared to stand up in front of 4,000 people. And I didn't want to stand up in front of everybody. And so I would say to people walking through, no, I didn't, I didn't. I wouldn't feel the pressure. I just think that. And I don't think that the person on the stage wanted me to feel the pressure. A lot of times we can blame the person, but it's like, I don't. I don't think that's actually their intention. I think that they want the best for me, and they want the best for every woman in the room.

And maybe it wasn't meant for you.

And maybe it wasn't. And I can respond and have faith in my heart without feeling like I'm placed on the spot. And there have been plenty of moments that I have stood. But I just say to the women that are walking through infertility, just guard that pace. You know, be sensitive. Don't feel like you're failing God if you don't stand in front of everybody. Don't feel like you're a failure. You know, don't. Also, don't feel like you have to share every detail of your process. I think our generation has a really twisted idea of vulnerability. I mean, it. Like, I don't think it's helpful.

Vulnerability in the name of. There's nothing. There's no privacy anymore.

There's no privacy. And you know what? There are some things that God wants to do in the secret place. And if you tell everybody, everybody that you don't even know that doesn't have a voice into your life, it's not the secret place anymore. And so God met me in the secret place, and I had my parents praying for me and my pastors surrounding me and my church community. But there were things that I wanted to process with the Holy Spirit. So for people that are wondering how to walk through it with you, I would say just be patient with people. You know, speak life. You don't have to tell them you're going to have a baby this year. People told me that every year for eight years. And God blessed them. They loved me. They loved my family. Nothing against it, but don't feel the pressure. You don't have to say it.

You're the kindest person I know for sure. So. Okay. But I want to segue into talking about your preaching, because I love your preaching. And I think one of the things that is so beautiful about your preaching is that you just come from a place of where you are. And you and I met at a weekend birthday celebration.

Yeah.

And then I went home and I was watching. I had recorded, like, recorded Color Conference, or I had recorded. I think it was Color Conference, like, on my dvr. And anytime it would play a Sermon from Color Conference.

It would record.

And so I sat down one day to eat lunch, and I was looking through my things that I had recorded, and just like, I don't do this a lot. I Like I said, I prefer audiobooks, so. But I was just like, I want to watch a sermon. And one of your sermons popped up, and it was the most. Like, I think that that particular sermon is what made me just really fall in love with you as a person. And I've shared this with you before, but it was. You were preaching a Color conference. I'm almost positive the. The title of your sermon was Slow Burn.

Yeah.

And you preached about Sarah, and you preached about faith, and you talked about. You actually, in that moment, shared about struggling with infertility. And I thought because I had known you after you. I mean, by the time I was watching this, you had one child. And so I didn't know where this sermon fell in all of. In all of everything. And so I thought that, you know, maybe you were pregnant at the time.

And you were gonna say that at.

The end of your sermon or whatever, but you weren't. And you were preaching about faith in.

The middle, not in the middle.

Seven years, I think, or. I mean, six or seven years probably into your struggle with infertility.

What?

Like, how. How do you know when you're preaching when to share something and when not to share something?

Yeah. I think it's a really important question because you don't. If you have a wound, you don't want to get up and just bleed on everybody. It doesn't help them. You want people to find healing in the presence of God, right? Yeah. That. That message, Slow Burn, that was actually the first time I ever shared our infertility story publicly. And so ironic that the first time I share wasn't even in our home church. It's in front of, like, 14,000 women. But I didn't come there planning to share my story. Pastor Bobbi, who I adore, she didn't invite me to come to share my story. This was a private journey in my life, but two weeks before, I really felt the Holy Spirit say, like, you need to share your story. I had planned to share Slow Burn, the story, you know, of Sarah, but I wasn't going to correlate it to my own journey. And I felt like six years in, I had come to a place of surrender. The Holy Spirit had been so patient with me. I told you. It took me a year to tell my parents. And then bit by bit, I started to lean on my Church community through those six years, I decided, I'm not going to run from the baby showers. I'm going to lean into this celebration of others. I'm going to show up. I'm going to hold the babies close. I'm going to pastor people with my mother's heart that has a longing and a yearning to love and invest. And so I'm not going to run into a room and be escorted out of it. Like, I wasn't. I didn't have my registry made. I didn't have all the stuff bought or picked out. I was like, I'm going to enjoy that season to its fullest when and if God opens up that door. And so God had done, like, a really deep work in my life over those six years. And I felt like I was in a place where God, I fully believe you're going to give me a child. Like, I fully believe it. But even if you don't, you're more than enough, and you're enough for me. I have a mission. I wake up every day with purpose. You've given me a vision for our life to sow it. So I felt like I was in a place where it wasn't like this wound any longer. It was almost like a scar. Like, okay, this has been a battle. But God's faithfulness has brought healing to me, not on the other side of the miracle. The miracle is that here I am in the valley, and he's been faithful here. And I think my mindset starting my infertility journey was, I have to wait until I have a baby in my arms, until that I had a prophecy spoken over me that I would preach the gospel around the world with a baby in one hand and a Bible in the other. And it didn't come to pass immediately. It was like four years before I saw that come to pass. But I had the mentality that we'll wait to tell that story. And I think the Holy Spirit, Spirit just completely reshifted me two weeks before that conference that you watched and just said, no, like, you need to share it right now. Like, I'm faithful right now. What are you going to testify about? Like, I'm the promise. I'm the miracle. I'm here. I've been with you every step, so let's talk about it.

And I think that's exactly what you communicated. And it was just. It was such a beautiful thing for me to watch. Just, you know, you talk about vulnerability and privacy and. And there is. There's a. There's a very fine line between everybody does not need to know. And it doesn't matter on stage. And if you're a preacher or if you're just, you know, have a. Have an Instagram account, everybody doesn't need to know everything. But then there are times where the Holy Spirit says, I need you to share this. And, And. And just the obedience to being able to share in what you shared of. Just like faith is. Just because I don't have a baby in my arms doesn't mean that I don't still have faith. And it was just. I just. I don't know, I just love it, and I love it made me fall in love with your preaching, because I think when you know, somebody is willing to go to a certain place, they're. They're preaching from a. They're preaching from a different place in their heart and from a different. Just download from the Holy Spirit and willing to be obedient. So, okay, how has your preaching changed over the last. Because now you have kids.

Oh, my goodness. It's changed a lot. I think. I think that the parallels of parenting and all that's developed in you. I mean, I think this is more about me learning than my kids. I feel like I'm constantly being changed, pulled, stretched, and having moments, like, epiphany moments of, oh, wow, this love is deep. And when you parallel that to the love of God. I think that a lot of the things I share, things that I'm learning on my way of becoming a parent, and I mean, hopefully we're all progressing and changing. But I think that one thing I have learned over the years of preaching. You know my Enneagram number, by the way, you're the one who got me into it. Do you remember that?

Oh, yeah.

I think the first time we talked, you told me you're like, you need to get this book. And so I got it and I read it, and I fell in love with it. I ended up teaching it to our whole staff. Yeah, I did. Which you teach it too, right? I did. I did.

To a small group of people.

Yeah. So we did it for fun because we like to do different things. I understand people watching it. Enneagram is not the Bible. I get it. But it's fun. And so I'm a number one, which can be reformer, perfectionist. So naturally, you don't want to share your weaknesses. But I've learned time and time again that, like, the most powerful thing it really is when you're at your weakest is when his strength rests on you, like scripture says. And so it's those stories of learning, it's those stories of being broken and just the seeming failures on the road of parenthood that I think connect all of our hearts in our community. You know, because we're all. None of us feel like we're the right parents or that we have everything that we need. It's messy. It is so messy being a mom.

It is so messy. And, you know, I think like, all the things that God, God uses different things to teach us, different tools and different people and different situations in our lives. And, you know, for you, a lot of your, you know, journey of faith was in that eight year period not having kids. And for me, I look back and my journey of faith and maturity, I would say maturity was, you know, I have my first baby at 25 and I was not ready. It was not what I expected. And so I think, you know, I spent eight years and still trying to gather up my, like, figure out my faith and motherhood and all of that. And I think it's just God uses different things in different ways.

Yes.

So, okay, the thing about you is. And anybody that knows you, loves you, follows you, is you make, you make life look like it's easy and it's fun and it's joyful. And yes, you do, because you actually, you actually do. And I wanted, I told you this before we got on. I want to talk about, I don't want to talk a lot about preaching because I don't feel like there's like that massive amount of people out there. Okay. But you handle your business. You juggle having two really young babies and being pregnant. And you just preached on Sunday like it was no big deal. You preached four times and you cook dinner and you do all these, you do all of these things and it's. And I want you to talk to like the working mom out there who feels like. I was actually, I was listening to the Today show this morning and they were talking about a Facebook group of women who are doctors and they there and they were talking about how as a female mother and a physician, you're supposed to act like you don't have children when you're at work and when you're at home, you're supposed to act like you don't have a job when you're at home and the pressure of that. So how do you handle the pressure of ministering to people and pastoring people and growing a church, but also growing.

A family at the same time.

Do you have any things that you tell yourself or how do you keep Such a great attitude about everything.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of self talk that goes into it because every season my kids change all the time. They're different human beings month to month. And so even as my kids are changing, also my job is evolving. Rich and I are pastoring together. We just survived a pandemic, leading our community together. Shout out to all the pastors and leaders and everybody, you guys are the best on the planet. And then also, you know, just life is progressing, you are maturing, you are changing the way that you used to think. You are not thinking anymore. And so I think there is a lot of self talk for me that goes into just leaning into the season and not feeling like whatever decisions I am making today are going to be projected forever. I think there is a sense of defeat and, and being overwhelmed and discouraged when you go, my life is always going to be like this. Not that life right now is bad. It's just that there are tough seasons that demand all of you. And so there's a lot of self talk in me that is like, this is a season. Let's lean into the season and let me define the win. Because I know I feel like I have this thing down, but I do feel like I fight constantly to define my win. Like what, what makes me feel grounded as a mom and as a leader who's. Who's working full time. You know, everybody's different. Like, it's funny because even with infertility, infertility is tricky because women compare themselves, right? She's doing it this way, I've got to do it this way. Maybe it'll work. Mom being a mom is the same thing. There's so much mom shame where you see people do it or you see what they project and all of a sudden you feel that pressure. And I just push back on that pressure every single time. Like my day to day life, it is not flashy, it's not beautiful, it's not perfectly organized, but it works for me and I love it. And I have to define my win. Like, and when I say these things, I say all that to say like, as I define my win right now, please don't take it as your win. Like, find whoever's listening. Find what works for you. Like, I'm not get my mails, my nails done, I'll paint my own toes. I don't get blowouts every week. I wish I did. I love that. But I don't. But what's really important to me is having the right people alongside me to help Support me with my children when I need it. That is worth my investment, that's worth my dollars. Like, I want to have the right people. I don't want to exhaust them. I want to make sure that we have a good relationship and that even if I'm going to be home being with my kids, if I need somebody for three hours on a Saturday morning that I've taken, the win for me is not these things, it's being able to invest in that. And so you just define, like, what do I need? Like, as a mom, you can feel lonely. I can be an introvert and I like to be alone. But after I had kids, I realized it's nice to have another adult in the house with me, even if they're just present. And so figuring out the things that make you feel supported, sometimes you can come home and you still have a lot of work to do. You know, like, I don't clock in and clock out when you lead an organization, like when you're needed, you're needed. But I know that if I can put my phone away to take a walk with my kids, I can bathe them and put them to bed and then I can get back to what I need to work on. That window of time is a win for me. Right. And I do notice, I don't like, like, oh, you can't do this, you can't do that. I'm going to do whatever I need to do to get through the week. So sometimes it is me stepping out for a five minute call, then jumping back in to mom being a mother in the evening. But I do notice, especially this season, if we want to be specific for all the people with like a year and a half old who's like a tornado, like my child, somehow I named him Wild and thought that was a good idea. Let's talk about that for a minute. I do notice that I don't do well when I come home from a full day of work and I'm trying to watch him and take care of things on my phone, what happens is he destroys more things in two minutes of me being distracted than he ever would be able to get his hands on if I would just be present and engaged for a couple hours. And so, yeah, I am learning to define the wins. A win for me is being able to sleep well. I don't feel guilty about sleeping. I cannot function on five hours. I need seven. I need to feel good when I wake up. And so nobody is going to make me feel like that is luxury. Like that's A necessity in my life. And my husband can run on four hours and he can do it and I applaud it and it's amazing. And he brings so much strength and he's 50, 50 in this parenting thing. But I think I spent a lot of years thinking that somehow our styles or our schedules needed to look the same. And somewhere around when I turned 30, this brand new confidence came to go. I need to find my own rhythm and I need to own it. And I need to take responsibility for what God's entrusted me with. And these two different people, just like in marriage, our schedules can work together the same, if that makes sense.

When I'm with you, I feel like you have this, this like policy, this self policy of not speaking negatively about your situation or about people. You are just, you're such a positive person and I've been with you when, you know, like even a couple months ago when you were in the first trimester of your pregnancy and I remember being like, are you good? How do you feel? And you always say something like, I'm good. I'm so happy to be here right now. Do you do that on purpose? Do you like when you talk about self talk, do you feel like it's starts with what comes out of your mouth? Did we lose her?

Let's do our giveaway.

Our giveaway is going to Nancy Canoudis. Thanks to my team for picking a.

Name that is hard to pronounce.

Sorry, Nancy, you are the winner and if you would like to receive your amazing lunch tote, thanks for staying with us and for commenting emails. Youtubeelevationchurch.org and we're going to put that in the chat and I do I still have my comments running. We are we. I'm still up. Ok, so let's pick another person who is on here. Oh, there is Nancy. Nancy just said yes. I went through a season when I barely slept because of chronic pain. So now that I'm sleeping again. Omg, yes, it is something I will never feel guilty for. Nancy, you get the lunch tote and you have to do a picnic in it. And then Teresa just said, congratulations, Nancy Theresa Horn. So I'm going to send one to you as well. Thanks for being on. All right, Dawn Cherie is coming back on and basically what we are asking Dawn Cherie, can she hear me? Is are you ever in a bad mood and what do you do when you're in a bad mood? Alright, did you hear my question?

Yes, I heard it. Can I dive in?

Yes. What are you or you don't feel good.

Oh my goodness. I talk to the people that know me the best. You know, I do the things that refresh me and everybody's different. For my husband, he's refreshed by being around people. For me, when I write, it's a release and it's a connection with God and with myself that I really need. Doesn't mean that I'm perfect at it. I don't journal every single day. There's not a rhythm to it or a template to it, but it just means that I have that there. And then I think when it comes to recharging, I just think that you have to be able to see the older you get, the more you see the warning signs of, okay, if I don't take a minute, I'm probably going to explode on somebody. I'm probably not going to have a great conversation with my husband or I'm probably not going to give my kids the best attitude and respond in a way that really isn't about them and really is more about me getting the margin that I need. And then I think when it comes to me guarding my words like what you were saying before we got disconnected, I think that's something I've really learned from my mom. And I think I'm really terrified to miss out on the season that I'm in. I think I'm terrified of buying into the lie that the next season is better. And so when I want something to come out of my mouth that is negative or is somehow defining how I feel, I do feel like God's given us the power to change our perspective. That's what gratitude does every single time. Like, you want to complain about this, you want to criticize the way that person treated you. Okay, well, empathy can help me reshift that. And then also not getting stuck in my head and making assumptions about them or assumptions about my season or feeling stuck like I'm not stuck. I'm in control and I want to maximize the season. And even this morning, my mom, she's the best, but she flew in yesterday, last minute because she just wanted to be with us. And this morning, Wyatt is just whiny. He's looking at his year old brother. He doesn't understand why his year old brother doesn't get in trouble like he does by anytime he wants. And so sometimes he tries to revert. He's just whining. It's so easy as a mom or even as an individual who has their plate full to get heavy really quick to get heavy with your Kids to come down on them to get serious. And something that I've learned from her is like, your strength is in, not in getting heavy, but enlighten, lightening the moment, you know, so whereas I want to be like, Wyatt, stop whining. Which sometimes there's a need for that. You know, I look to her and I want to be taught I'm a brand new mom. I've only been doing this for three years. I really need the women in my life to speak into my life. And I learned from women who are not moms and people who have been moms for decades about how to speak into my kids life. But my mom is just like, hey, let's get creative, let's think of an idea. Let's like, she's talking to Wyatt like a human being and she's keeping it joyful and she's protecting her tone. And you know what it does? It just diffuses what could have really been an ugly moment that could have started my day off wrong. And so I think I protect my words because I know my words have power. They change the atmosphere, they change the course of conversations. Like they even change the creativity that God has placed in my life as a gift. Like it stifles it. And I just want to breathe life into the things that God's entrusted to me. And when it's hard is when I want to fight for it the most. And so, yeah, I want to be really careful about what I speak over my husband, over my friendships, over my family and over myself.

I want you to preach a message on that. That's my. I'm going to put in my requests.

You probably have.

And you can just text me which one I should look up on YouTube. But that was like what you just said about lightening the moment I think is so powerful. And so as women so many times, like we have the opportunity in our home to, to take the mood of somebody else. And we can either go down with you or we can be like, you know what? I'm not. We're not doing that. And I feel like I'm good at it in my marriage, but I'm not that great at it with my kids. And I want to get better at it with my kids.

Well, kids test your patience like nothing else. It's like, it's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable. And it does not matter how old they are. No, it doesn't matter if they are 3 or 13 or 15. My oldest is 15, so that's as far as I've gotten. But I'm just. They have an ability to really, you know, make you like, who am I?

Who is that person?

What did I. I don't even know that woman. And. And I actually told my kids recently. I said there were so many times that I would pray. God, will you, dear Jesus, will you please not let them remember this moment? Will you just erase this moment from their memory? And I don't know. Mom hack. No, you know what?

Like, I feel like. I feel like the opposite is probably great for them, because those moments where your mom got frustrated, she had a rough day. My mom was not perfect. And I saw those sides, and they give me the faith I need to be a mom. Right. Like, it's. Like it's not. You see, your kids see every part of you.

They don't need to see a perfect mom.

No.

A growing mom and a mom who's willing to admit when she was wrong, and a mom who is. Is trying to grow as a person. And so I want my kids to do that. But I truly feel like you have this. It's not. I know you have bad days. I know you have bad moods, but I don't know anybody who protects what comes out of their mouth better than you do. And I just. I love what you said about just lightning lightening the mood and lightening the room and not allowing any kind of. Any circumstances to affect my joy. And I think that's what you have is just this beautiful joy that comes out of you when you're around, whether you're being a mom or you're being a leader or a pastor's wife or a preacher. And it's just refreshing. It's just so refreshing.

You're refreshing to me. I'm so grateful for your friendship. I mean it. I love you so much, and I love this combo.

I know.

This is awesome.

So thank you so much for doing this and for being here if people want to follow you. You're Dawn Cherie Wilkerson.

Yeah, it's just my first name on ig. My name is so long. My first name is that double. Double word, Southern thing going on. So it's just Don Cherie.

I love it. So I haven't told you this, but speaking of your name, do people mispronounce your name, like.

Oh, yeah. A lot?

Recently, I wasn't feeling great, and Don Cheri sent me doordash and somebody rang my intercom and they said. I said, hello, and they said, we have an. We have a. We have a delivery for Dawn.

Sure.

And I.

I think on everything, Don Cherry. Dawn. Like, it's. Yeah, I haven't. I've only met one other Dawn, Cherie, and she's a little baby right now.

So I automatically knew who it was and it blessed my day. And you.

Love you.

It blesses my life. And. And if we want to hear your sermon from this weekend, what do we.

Yeah, you can go to Vuchchurch.com says Vuchurch.com and you can watch it online.

I love it.

You're the best. I love you so much.

Thank you.

All of our lives. Authentic, so genuine. I'm really grateful.

I'm so grateful for you. All right, I will. I will see you soon. And guys, how much fun was that conversation? I hope you love Dawntree as much as I do now.

It's freezing.

If you don't know her now, you know her. And if you enjoyed this conversation, make sure to comment below.

Let me know.

You can always let me know other people that you would love for me to have on Lunchtime Live. I did tell Pastor Steven that he was going to be on Lunchtime Live with me soon. And I told him that he was harder to get than Dr. Edith Eva Eger, and he laughed. But we'll have Pastor Steven on soon. I don't know when. I've got some other great friends coming up in the next couple of weeks. I've got some worship conversations coming. I've got some great book and conversations coming and lots of fun things. So let me know in the comments if you like Lunchtime Live and some other people that you love for us to chat with. Make sure you like this video. Make sure you share this video. If you haven't subscribed to Holly Furtick YouTube yet, hit that subscribe button. And so that you can know every time that we post a new video, I love you. Thanks for hanging in there with us even with our technical difficulties. I hope the rest of your Monday is amazing and I'll see you next time.