Lunchtime Live with Jenn Johnson | Holly Furtick

Hi, everybody. It is time for another Lunchtime Live. We are in Charlotte today. It is a beautiful, unseasonably warm fall day, and so I wanted to sit outside to do this interview. I cannot wait to bring on the person I'm interviewing today, which you all know because I told you on Instagram, it's Jen Johnson. Before I bring Jen on, let me know where you're watching from. What we for lunch. Do you like my lipstick? I think it's a little dark. I typically do not wear lipstick this dark. It doesn't look quite as dark on the YouTube feed as it does on my personal camera. But anyway, I'm feeling like I. My lips are really dark today, so let me know if it's too dark for me. I had a turkey sandwich for lunch in the car on the way here because I'm always running late and I never leave myself enough time. Let's see who is joining us. We've got Pastor Evangeline from India. Hello. We've got Jenna John from Dallas. Natalie Chambers from Detroit. Tiffany Rubins. Oh, thank you. Tiffany says my makeup looks good. Hello, Elise. Hello, Theresa.

Hello.

I don't know how to pronounce that name. It's like Lele. Lil from Detroit. Nice to see you, Sonya. Sonia likes my lipstick. Thank you. Jessica from Indian Trail just down the road.

Jessica, heads up.

There's really bad traffic on 74. I obviously also did not plan for that as I was eating my sandwich in the car. Arlene from Southern California is with us. Brittany Cox is with us from South Somerville, South Carolina, and she says something about it's your birthday, maybe Brandy Cole. Guys, we're outside, so there's some noises. That's the umbrella making noises. Hopefully it's not going to blow away. Hi. Esmeralda from Florida, Sandy Woodward. Kamala Burton. Hey, Kamala from Tupelo, Mississippi.

That's.

Is that Missouri or Mississippi? Mississippi. Because Missouri is Mo. I don't know the M's of the states. Just. Just.

There you go.

But Burton, Kamala Burton, that's my mom's maiden name, so maybe we're related somehow. Who else do we have? Jennifer Hall. Good to see you. Michelle Stone from Sacramento. Alyssa Chavez from New Mexico. Guys, we got a nice little group on today, and I'm so glad that you're joining us. Also, I told you that it was unseasonably warm here in Charlotte. What you don't know is that starting tomorrow or tomorrow's Friday or Saturday. I can't remember. They were telling me on the news. It's going to be unseasonably cold in North Carolina. So our high is going to be like 59, 60, something like that. And that's a little bit chilly for us. So I'm going to enjoy today and then I'm going to bundle up. Because I grew up in Florida, I'm not a huge fan of cold weather. So there's that. All right, are you guys ready? Nobody told me what you ate for lunch. Maybe it's not lunchtime in a lot of the places where you are. It's not lunchtime in our guests area of the country because we're talking to Jen Johnson. She is in California and are you ready? We should just bring her on. Let me tell you before you bring her on.

Hold on.

Let me tell you. Jen Johnson, co founder of Bethel Music. If you know the song I will sing of the goodness of God. That's Jen and her beautiful voice. Co founder, Bethel Music Worship leader, singer, songwriter, mom of five. You guys. One, two, three, four, five. That's a lot. And now she's an author. Let's bring her on. Help me welcome Jen Johnson. She's got this new book out today. Well, not today, this week. And it's called All Things Lovely. Hi, Jen.

Hi, gorgeous.

How are you?

I'm so happy. I'm tired. And yes, mom of five. I love that you counted them individually because they all come with their own nonsense. Enjoy, don't they?

It's like the song that, that my husband wrote, miracles on miracles. 1, 2, 3, 4 is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I can't even count them all.

I don't even know. And now I have a son in law, so it's really six now.

So you have, you have a son in law and you have a baby.

Yeah, girl, I'm all over the place. See these bags under these eyes? That's real time, real times. There's no concealer to hide that tired.

I love it. All right, so, Jen, I want to talk about the book. I want to talk about all the great things that I have, like a whole list of questions I'm going to ask you. But to start off, we're going to start with some like speed round type questions which the speed round never goes.

Quickly, but the slow speed round.

The slow speed round. Here we go. Okay. Oh, and I have to say before we, before we dive in, for all of you watching, we have a copy of Jen's book to give away. We're going to give it away at the end because I want you to watch the whole thing so if you want to win a copy of Jen's book, make sure you're on at the end and we will pick someone to give it away to. Okay. Would you rather watch the movie or read the book?

Watch the movie.

Really?

Oh, yeah. I do not like reading, and so it's really my bible. And I love you and I will never do a book club because I am the worst reader. So I had to make a book that was filled with over 200 pictures just so I would even be inspired to keep writing it.

How do you feel about audiobooks? Because that's what I do is audiobooks.

I don't like them. I love YouTube. I love watching home tours. I love watching reality. I love watching movies. I know. I'm just. It's my bible and that's about it. Other than I love magazines. I love magazines. So, yeah, you are.

You are allowed. Do you have a favorite magazine?

Oh, Magnolia, of course. Absolutely. JoJo, queen of all.

That's a. That is a good one. I'm going to be honest with you. I prefer People magazine.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I had to stop, though, because, I don't know, I just feel so bad about paying people to take pictures of people they don't want to have taken of them. So I had to stop. But I used to be obsessed. Every flight I had a People magazine, but now I'm like, okay, I'm not going to feed the monster. It's true.

So I'm guessing that means you don't follow People magazine on Instagram as well.

No, but it's my favorite thing. If I see it randomly come up. I try not to go on the everything page because that's just the world of nonsense you're opening yourself up to. But if I see it and I see someone famous on there, I definitely click on it. But I love the ad. The YouTube. Have you seen those? The YouTube ad. Home tours are like 73 questions on YouTube. Oh, it's so good. It's like People magazine, but live. And you see their homes. Like cribs, but redone. Girl, it's so good. I'll text you the link.

Okay, I'm gonna watch that. Except, you know, to be honest, I'm not a huge YouTube person. As we're on YouTube.

I. Holly9.

Don'T worry. My family gives YouTube plenty of watch time. Yes, but personally, I don't like short form. I like long form. And really, honestly, Jen, that's because I don't like to make decisions. And so that's why I love audiobooks because you're in. Only have to make a decision. Like. Well, for me, it's about once a week. And so. And then every time I want to, I'm getting ready or I'm cooking or I'm driving. I. I already know what I'm going to be listening to. Yeah, my kids, like, Abby has been sick. She's been home from school this week. And yes, she watches YouTube. And it makes me worried about her, like, her attention span because the videos.

Are so short in, like, TikTok. Yeah, I know. They're like.

And kids watch the weirdest stuff.

Weirdest.

I'd be like, how is this interesting to you? It's a girl painting squishy.

Yeah. I love Abby with my whole heart. I feel. I feel known by Abby. I feel like. I feel like I'm looking at my childhood when I watch you and her. And your cooking show is literally my favorite thing. Oh, my gosh, that's awesome.

Okay. Yeah. The speed round is not. Is not going very fast. So speaking of cooking, would you rather cook something quick that you have not planned for? Like, just use whatever ingredients you have in your kitchen or order takeout?

I mean, that is split right down the middle. For me, I love to cook, but I also love to come home and just order takeout. So it is right down the middle. But for me, like, if I have a day off, I am definitely going to make something, but if it's a workday, take out.

Got it. I find, though, that ordering food can sometimes take as long and be just as stressful. Like, by the time I figure out what every person, what restaurant we're ordering from, what everybody in my family wants and, you know, all, like, all the substitutions and all those things. And by the time it gets delivered, I could have just made bacon and eggs.

Yeah, I have. We have a family group chat with all my kids because there's a million and so like about, like three in the afternoon. I'll group text everybody if it's dinner night and say, what do you want? We're getting Italian or sushi or whatever. And they'll all text me. We all have our orders, and my orders are saved on doordash. They're saved. And so I just bang. Just.

See, that's why you're so much smarter than me. And these are things that we need to talk about as we continue on this interview.

Love. Just things that make things better and easier in life. Sign me up.

Real tree or fake tree this Christmas?

Oh, real. Always real. Every year. And fun fact it's usually about 15ft tall. Yes, 15.

It's a look at a real 15 foot tree.

Yes. If you scroll back to my Christmas pictures every year, you will see a tree the size of Texas. Because our living room, great room is like this massive place and I just, I do one tree. I don't do multiple trees. That's one thing though. Okay, one tree. But go big or go home. That's what I say.

Okay, so I guess because you live in California, you can purchase a real 15 foot tree.

Yes, you can.

I don't, I don't think you could buy a 15 foot. I mean, I guess you could like special order one here. Yeah, but I, I don't, I don't know. So. Okay, this is not in my notes, but on this, this one Christmas tree.

Yes.

Knowing you, I don't know the answer to this question. Is it like, is it like decorated like with a theme or do we have family ornaments?

So we have. I let the kids have their own rooms decorated. So they usually have like little trees that are fake in their rooms with their ornaments on them. And then the big living room tree is like monochromatic. Like all I do like gold and it just looks like it's this big glowing, beautiful gold, twinkly there ornaments from H and M. Actually H and M home. And they're just this beautiful glass, gold and clear ornaments. So yeah, it's just like. And brown paper packages wrapped up with string as the great song says.

I have. I'm a fake tree person, first of all.

No shame.

I find real trees to be imperfect looking.

Yes.

And messy.

Yes.

And I, I just like, I like the way a real, A fake tree looks. But we have multiple trees. So we have a, we have the living room tree which is, you know, more decorated with Mike. I'm not going to say mine are all monochromatic, but it has more, you know, of a decorated feel.

Yeah.

Then we have a family room tree that has all of our family ornaments on it. And then I also another tree in my house I'm really proud of. I do a small tree in my kitchen. And every time that we travel and go somewhere, I try to pick up a Christmas ornament. So it has Christmas ornaments from like all over the world.

Very cute.

Mostly from the United States, but also some from, from other countries. And I love it. And it, and when I decorated it always, I always write on it what vacation it was and the year and all that.

So. So Brian's grandma, we call her Amma, they're Norwegian and this would be Bill's mom. She has in her house over. Wait for it. Over 600 Nativity scenes. 600. The smallest one is, like the size of a dime. And the biggest one is, like, practically life size. Out on her front porch, she has her recipe for cinnamon rolls which will change your life. Are in my book in her handwriting, which looks like Lord of the Ring, Elvish. And her original artwork. It's unbelievable. I don't know. Let me see. I don't know what page is on. Let me get my.

So I remember seeing that page and wondering if you had typed the recipe out also next to it looks.

Yes, I should have. It's so gorgeous. And. Oh, wait, I'm gonna find it. I think it is. Yes. Okay. 207. It looks like this.

Yes, look.

I look like Elvish.

Look at her handwriting.

That's unbelievable.

Okay, I found the page. Also, I found the page of your adorable.

It was okay. Last night was so cute. We did a book release party at my house. Can you even look? I can't.

Is it raining? It's raining.

Umbrella.

We're, like, all set up out here. I wish you could see all the technology. I don't think it's gonna rain for long.

So hurricane you get, like, whipped up and Jesus canceled.

Wait, wait, so what were you saying? Something happened last night.

Oh, it was just so cute because I had this. I had a book launch party last night with all of our friends. So my house had, like, almost 100 of our favorite people who live in Reading. A few flew in, drove in, and our grandma came, and she hadn't seen it yet. Obviously. I asked her permission and all the good things, but she hadn't seen it in the book yet. And it was just so precious. Like, she opened the book and saw it and she texted me this morning, like, just the sweetest things. But she is such a pillar and inspiration for me for, like, community and family. Like, nothing means more to her than Jesus and her family. They've traveled the world. They used to be the head of assembly of God Missions Grandma, Grandpa Johnson did. And they really were the spearhead of the worship movement of, like, lifting your hands of singing things other than hymns. They really carried that mantle that was passed down to Bill and then us, you know, generationally, so we owe her the whole world. But she's amazing. And you got to make those Seminoles, they.

Okay, so I'm gonna tell you, though, I'm a huge fan of cinnamon rolls. However, I don't really like to make things that Are difficult and that require like multiple steps, like rising type of situations.

Yes, that's. Then that's this. She literally gets up at like 4 in the morning to have them ready for 8:30. So that's not my vibe either. So I'm not gonna lie. I just. I don't think that it'll be a usual. But they're so flipping good. And we make them every holiday for Thanksgiving and Christmas. And that's probably good because I think my nephew ate. Oh, I don't even know what the record was. They have a record going of who can eat how many. It's probably 10 or something. It's ridiculous. Yeah, the holidays for us are everything. There's. What'd she say, 60? My cousin told me 60 something Johnsons coming to my house for Thanksgiving. That's the usual normal. Yeah. Just kids everywhere.

Bless, bless. Bless you.

Hey him.

We're. I. And I want to ask you. Okay, so I'm just going to start asking you my questions. They're going to be random because you just said you're having all these people come to your house for the holidays. What tips would you give us for managing the holidays? Talk about in laws and family and having tons of kids running around your house. Like what keeps you sane?

I have a rug. Okay. So I am a clean freak. I love organization. But then once it comes time for the event, I just let it all go. I'm just like, okay, here we are and we'll clean it up afterward. But I do have a rug that I change out. So the nice rug and then the rug that when there's 700 children in my living room. So that rug was originally ruined by the 700 children in my living room on a holiday. So now it's just. It comes back and makes an appearance for the holidays.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. So you like move the furniture?

Yeah.

Couches?

Yeah. Christmas tree, obviously no trees. Like against the wall. If you look in the book, you can see like this picture of my living room from the loft. The I'm already in second version of the book because of COVID printing. It was supposed to come out in October. I never got to proof it. And then they put it out and pulled a couple of fast ones on me. But anyway, the picture of my living room that you see is actually zoomed out so it kind of looks super weird and doesn't look right and it's not even the right picture. But anyway, all that to say. You'll get the point. The rugs in the middle with the couches around the trees kind of over here. And so the rug that has the coffee spills and stuff that makes an appearance so that, you know, doesn't make me crazy. So that's another tip. Don't put out the good stuff that you don't want ruined.

Okay.

And then we pray so hard that it doesn't rain because then the kids just play outside and it's super fun. So. But we also have a barn as a backup plan that's emptied out and ready in case we need to, you know, not scream at each other drama wise. Honestly, we don't have much. We've got, you know, everyone. Family has their, like, situations that they have to work through. But I just try to rise above it and like, not. And pretend like nothing weird exists. Not on an ignorance level, but just loving people at a higher level and kind of not talking about those things. I try, I tell my family, at least please don't talk Hot Topics. It never works. They are all the things and I just leave the conversation. So, yeah, that's. That's my. But enjoy it, savor it. It's just such a hustle. And as a mom, you're buying 4,000 Christmas presents and I just like, after my interview today, I'm going to go home, get in bed, wear my pajamas, and Christmas shop and, you know, just try to slow down and enjoy it because it really does go so fast and it really is so sweet. So just try not to get stressed. That's my tip.

It's true. I think for me on Christmas Day specifically, the most stressful thing for me is the trash. And so I'm like, I have to sort of almost like wake up and tell myself it's gonna be okay. Yeah, it's okay. There's gonna be trash.

And.

And you know what? Your children are not gonna throw away their trash today. You know, like, so instead of me just being shocked, like, what is wrong with you people? You never pick up your trash.

You know, I'm just like, it's gonna happen.

I'm gonna have garbage bags and that's it.

We're gonna. There's, you know, Brian is the trash guy because he's the exact same. Like, he literally cannot handle it. And so he preps everyone before he's like, here are the trash bags behind the couch. When you've opened, throw your trash away. Like, Brian is like, trash extraordinaire.

I just, I don't know, I just get nervous that something important is gonna get thrown away.

And don't you ever wonder how Many gift cards get thrown away every year.

Funny story about that. So one year when Steven and I were first married, it was probably like our first or second Christmas. His aunt and uncle gave us. I think it was $100 gift card. I think it was to Walmart. And like, a couple weeks later, we couldn't find it. And I think we kind of had like, a little fight about it.

Yes, I won.

Just, like, you know, that whole, like, I. I didn't. I didn't have it. Did you have it? No. Why don't you have it? You know, like, why are we so irresponsible? Like, that sort of discussion. And so. And I. And we didn't have, like, $100 was a lot of. And. And so the funny thing was we finally, like, gave up looking for it. We decided it had accidentally gotten thrown away. And then, like, the next year, when I got out the Christmas stuff. No, I found it in one of the Christmas decoration boxes.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, happy day.

Yes.

That is so. Yeah. You know, I mean, genius for stores to sell gift cards because, you know that just. They're just cheersing themselves. Half of these are getting lost. Right.

And also, like, not that this is not. This is what we're talking about, but when they do that, I'm the kind of person too, like, if there's, you know, $3.25 left on the card, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna use this again.

Oh, 100%. Me hundred.

But then you go into the store to use the gift card and spend more money than you would have if you didn't have the $3.25.

The Queen of buying a pack of gum with the last, like, dollar. Oh, my God. I am literally that. I am so funny because I love excellence and I love, like, things that last and expensive. I love that. But I'm a deal girl. Like, I still shop at Walmart. If I can buy it at Walmart and I can also buy it at Pottery Barn, I'm buying it from Walmart for, like, a dollar. So I love to be responsible and have, like, where can I get the best price? Like, Amazon. How Amazon tells you whatever the food is percents. Oh, I'm that girl. I'm scrolling till I find the cheapest.

And I love coupons. I don't know if you love coupons. I. I love coupons. And my kids get so mad at me because not. Not grocery store coupons. I don't do grocery store coupons because that show.

Because I was obsessed with that show. Where they'd like, yes. And like, they're like, you, we owe you $7.

Yes. So, not that I am not a couponer. If a couponer heard me say I love coupons, they would. They would be so embarrassed.

Yes, I know.

I love, like, loyalty coupons.

So, like, dick free coffee if you buy seven. Oh, I have. I'm stamp card girl.

Me too. And like, dick sporting goods. I try to buy all my kids sports stuff there. And so you get these coupons for, like, you know, spend $100, get $10 off. And so. And they'll let some of. Sometimes if you get a good salesperson, they'll let you stack the coupons. Kids are always so embarrassed. They're like, mom, why. Why do you need to use a coupon? I'm like, because it's free money.

What is wrong with you? Thank you. Yeah. And one day they're gonna. They're gonna be married, and they're gonna be in line of dicks with all their coupons. I get it. Their kids will now be annoyed by them.

Okay, so in the book, you talk a lot about organization.

Yes.

And you are a very organized person. I don't think you would like my house, because it's not.

I love your house.

Well, I don't think you would want to open a lot of the drawers and closets. I try really hard.

Have you ever watched Marie Kondo the show on Instagram, and she goes, I love mess. I was like, I'm seen and known right now. So I would want to come to your house because it makes. I have literally showed up at my friend's house. I won't mention their names here, but you and I both know and love both people that I'm thinking of right now. I've shown up on their doorstep, one invited, one not invited. My friend had a baby, and I just was, like, there to help. And I just opened the painting. I go, can I help you? Do you want this to be different than it is? And it was like, yes. So I've showed up in many friends homes. Just wait for it. I may show up in your house.

I would love that. My house looks. On the surface, it looks great. But you may open up certain spaces and be overwhelmed. I think a lot of people would be overwhelmed, but I don't. Stuff like that. I don't want. I want a space to be functional, but I don't want everything in, like. Like all the cans facing a certain way and everything in bins and all of that, because I don't know, like, keeping it that way can sometimes stress me out. So here's my question.

Yes.

Which room do you feel like is the most important room that should be organized in your home? Like, if I.

Where.

Where would a person, would you say they should start?

Yes. So order for me, you know, and what I talk about a lot in the book is not just organizing things in your house, but just more importantly, even, like, what you said, like, on the surface it's this, but underneath, there's a lot of chaos in a lot of places. So it's pretty amazing how it's connected physically and emotionally. Like, when you don't deal with stuff a lot of times in your life. I mean, I write about it in the book. Brian had a nervous breakdown and wrote a book about it. It's called When God Becomes Real. And it's his story of anxiety and how he overcame it and what he had to deal with and how God met him in it. But it really is a spiritual principle. And it's not that everyone's house needs to look like, you know, a Pinterest ad for the storage, the whatever, the container Store. But the bigger I have coffee in my throat. The thing for me, why I love organization and order in my heart and in my home is because, for one, in the physical, you can find stuff that you need really fast, which makes life easier. Just like, where is this? I never have to ask myself, hardly ever, where is this? Because we just really work hard as a family to keep our lives organized and purge things that we don't need so someone else can use them instead of just keeping random things that we don't need, you know, or sizes that don't fit or whatever. So I think that in our. In my home, organization really helps function and it helps. I don't buy things that I already have. You know, that's the worst feeling when you buy something and then you already had it. You're like, dang it. So that's that. It just really helps with function. I think the most room for me that's most important to be organized is probably my kitchen because I cook so much and snack central. And it makes packing lunches go by so quickly because they can just grab and go. And my fridge, I really love my fridge when it's organized, so. But it's not ever perfect. So it's just a constant. I'm constantly like, you know, it's like the quote that says cleaning your house when you have little kids at home is like brushing your teeth when you're Eating Oreo cookies. You know, that's organization. Like, there's not, like, I will now be perfect, but having systems and kind of giving your whole family this charge of, like, we want to keep things in order so our life can function more peaceful and we're not screaming at each other because we can't find our backpacks in the morning. And then emotionally, you know, it's just a whole different story, but with a lot of similar themes of, like, you know, a lot of people, like, just don't deal with things or don't have hard conversations because they don't want to offend people or they're not courageous enough to deal with it. And then you just, You. You slowly just pressure builds up in you until one day you pop because you have capacity. And you can only close a closet door and slam it shut before all the crap just won't be contained anymore and floods out. So learning to kind of live and work through things and keep things in order physically and emotionally, it really is amazing and has so much freedom attached to it.

So tell me more about. Okay, first of all, I think my refrigerator would probably give you a heart attack. Here's the thing. I cook a lot.

Yes.

And I. There's always leftovers in our fridge.

Yes.

And I also am the kind of person that I like. I like to, like, see what I have to make a meal. Right. So I'm not going to throw anything away unless it's moldy. Well, that's not necessarily true. But like, like, like certain sauces or whatever, I just have, like, lots of stuff. So I think I. So a lot of times when I see people's, like, organized refrigerators, I'm just like, mine would never stay that way. It wouldn't just. I don't always buy the same stuff. And I think people who have ridiculously organized refrigerators.

Yes.

Maybe they don't, like, cook or. I don't know.

Well, I totally know what you're saying. And in the back of the book, actually, is a picture of my refrigerator. And it does not look like this all the time, but I try to at least once a week make it look like this so that it makes me happy. But I'll tell you, for leftovers, an amazing way to make them look beautiful is obviously the stackable containers that have, like, their glass with, like, a plastic lid. And then I have a drawer in my fridge, actually, that's for leftovers. So you don't see the leftovers stacked on the shelves because. Cause I keep the pretty things or jars or whatever. But all the leftovers. There's a leftover drawer, and then I just reassess it and try to make sure that leftovers were. The leftovers are always, you know, fresh. But there's, you know, some things that get underneath. You're like, okay, wow, growing things. This is literally. This is my. On a good day, that's what it looks like is my fridge. So I like the look. It's artwork to me. So I don't have art on my walls in my house, but I like. This is my artwork. So, like, if I have pickles, I'll put them in a jar that's just pretty. And then I have a whole. One of my favorite. This is. I haven't even talked about this on anywhere on the Internet yet. But one of my favorite pages in the whole book is not glamorous. It's in the very back of the book, and it's tips to keep the food you buy fresh for as long as possible. Fun fact. Mushrooms, which I'm obsessed with, are kept best if you take them out of the container and put them in a paper bag and put them in the fridge. They last for, like, two weeks versus, like, getting nasty in three days. So that's one of my favorite pages in the book, is how to keep your food in your fridge to last long.

I'm going to love that page. So now I need to ask you about other people keeping it organized. Because my children, I have this. There's always this tension in my house. I want my children to do chores. I want them to, like, grow up and know how to.

Yes.

What makes a kitchen clean is not just putting your dishes in the dishwasher, but it's also wiping off the counters and all those things. Yes. But when they unload the dishwasher, the. My. Well, all of my kids, but one in particular, they will just take all the utensils and, like, put them in the wrong drawer. And then when I'm cooking, I'm mad because I can't find my measuring spoons or whatever.

Yes. Yes. It's what it's really.

Do you just. Do you have your kids unload the dishwasher and you just go behind them and fix it, or do you get angry with them? I'm just wondering. Because I get really angry.

Yes, I. Okay, so I don't have them do dishes because I get angry, but I do their own rooms. Their own. They wash all their clothes. Like, I have them do other things because I am like you and the kitchen is my space. So I need it to be dialed, because that's my bedroom, really, honestly. Do you know what I mean? But they do other chores, and they have responsibilities. They stack wood. Like, I'm a definite. Like, chores are important kind of a gal. I was raised that way. I really appreciate the work ethic my family gave me. I didn't love it in the moment, but we cooked, we cleaned, we washed our, you know, the dishes, we stacked wood. So there's definitely chores. But for me, for my mental space, the kitchen is my world, and I would rather have that just be that than have. So they clean off the dishes and put them in the sink and all the things, but I do the other parts. They can load the dishwasher. That's fine. But the unload.

Interesting.

Yeah. But it keeps my system, and I can sleep at night, so. And I get a lot of help. I'm not a superhero. I get a lot of help. So to do what we do, you get it. There is literally no way to do it all. Like, I do not do it all. I have help with my kids. I have help in our house. I have somebody helping me clean, like, literally almost every day, even for a couple hours. And I grew into that. Like, it wasn't always like that. Back in the day, one of my friends, he gave me the most amazing piece of advice. He said, I just had a baby, and I had all these dreams, and I want to do all these things, but it's consuming, right? And so he said, I want you to slowly replace everything that can be done in your life with anyone who could do them so that slowly, you can do it. Only you can do wife, mom, leader. And so slowly, over time, it started with one hour. Instead of going on a date night that was expensive, we'd go for a walk, and we'd save that money, and I would songwrite, or we would do something to kind of flip financially and start investing, investing, investing, investing. And so we've started with, like, a teeny bit of help with one hour a week to now we have multiple people who help us multiple hours a week. But I think it's just such an incredible investment in your life to bless someone else to help you. And then also, you know, you get a lot of help.

I think a lot of people who would say, I don't have. I don't. I don't have money to have help or whatever. I think that there are a lot of times there is help available to you that you are not taking advantage of. Like, you know, for instance, if you have children who are like, able to be responsible for certain things. You know, like my, my boys do their own laundry and they don't do it the way I think they should. And they, you know, but they don't.

Have their wrinkly and who cares, right?

But they, but, but I don't feel responsible to do their own laundry. My sister has five kids. She just went back to work full time and she, so her, her kids are all older too. Her youngest is in fourth grade and she was like. One of the things that I told them is everybody has. I'm not doing people's laundry anymore. I can't. Everybody has to do their own laundry. So like, I think sometimes we take things on and I really like how you said you, you acknowledge that there are certain spaces that you're. If you're a perfectionist and you have things you want done a certain way, you have to limit that to a few, a few spaces and let go and realize that there, there is help available. Another thing that I was thinking about while you were talking. When we were back when Steven and I were. Our kids were really little and we didn't have a lot of money. When I paid a babysitter to come to the house, I would always leave, I would leave them with a few chores because my kids went to bed at like 7 and let's say we don't get home till 11. And I would come home, my couch.

And be on your Instagram. Uh huh.

I would come home and. Well, back then they didn't have Instagram yet, but come home and they're like chilling on the couch, watching tv and there are literally toys all over the floor. And you know, and so I started, I had like a list and I started saying after the kids go to bed and yeah, pick up the toys. And then I started, I labeled everything. Even though, like, again, I am not, I am not even. I'm like the opposite of a perfectionist. I am a close enough is good enough kind of person. But if I, if I wanted people.

Stephen.

The opposite is, he's an absolute perfectionist. And, and we, we love each other.

I'll tell you this. Brian has a drawer. Brian drawer in our bathroom. And it used to like, make me freaking crazy. And I would organize it for him and then he would come back and just like. And finally I was like, we did connection codes. Have you heard of connection codes? No. Oh my gosh. Okay. So there's always some new relationship, like, you know, know yourself, blah, blah. We've done so many right and then our whole team just wouldn't shut up about this. And we're like, we honestly took the courses just to shut them up because we were annoyed. And it's called connection codes. And it makes you. It is life changing. They're just videos that you watch. If you type connection codes in, it comes right up. And it changed our life and our parenting. There's like, there's relationships, parenting, and sex. There's three different courses. They're all phenomenal. This couple out of Nashville. They're beautiful. Anyway, it makes you communicate your core emotion versus a reaction. So I would open the drawer. I'd be pissed. I would be like, he's gonna take care of things. He can never find everything. And so it makes you stop there and go deeper and go. This actually makes me sad. That's why I told my husband, I have a lot of sadness when I open this drawer because I work so hard to keep it organized and you don't care. And he just said to me, like, so simple. He goes, can it just be my drawer? And I went, yes, it can just be your drawer. I'm just not gonna open that drawer.

Just don't open it.

I just don't open it. And it, like, it changed my life because I have peace about it, because that's his drawer. He is fine with the chaos, and I'm going to let it go.

Yeah.

So I would.

Yes. I think maybe Stephen has he. Like my office. We just have an understanding. It's really messy in there. And if. If it bothers you, then we'll just keep the door shut.

Yeah.

Oh, here's the. Here's the other thing I was saying. So I went with. Because a lot laundry is like, not my thing. I really hate laundry. And so I went and labeled all the drawers in our house. Underwear, socks, pants, shorts, you know, whatever. And so I would tell the babysitter, I would say, there's a load of clothes in the. There's a couple loads of clothes. If you could fold those and put them away. All the drawers are labeled, and I would have them take care of the kids laundry. And so I think just back to your point of, like, you don't have to bear the load of everything in your home, whether you're a working mom or a stay at home mom or whatever. There's always things that you can do to. To lighten the loads that we bear.

Yes. And for free. Back in the day, when we were broke, we would trade. I would trade babysitting with my friend. Hey, I'll watch your kids in the backyard. You go clean your house, and then we'll trade. You know, like, you just make it work. But I think if I could go back in time with my first baby, it was really hard for me to ask for help. Like, I had this, like, I'm responsible. I can do it. It's called pride. And I just. Once I let that go and realize I need help. Like, I've never left that theme. I told my friend the other day I think my next book might be titled I need help. Because it's so important to realize that, like, with counseling or with help in life, like, we just need help. Like, we can't do it all. Especially if you want to do something great in life at any, you know, influence, you are going to need help. So.

And what I need for my help is different than what you need for your help. And I think I also find that asking if I'm going to ask for help from the people that I love, I have to do it when I'm not angry and find a time when I'm. When I'm like, rational and I've thought through what I want to say rather than like, no one ever helps me around here. That never goes anywhere.

No, it's so true. I've definitely said a lot of sorrys on that one. Mom bear, mama bear literally comes out.

Also, fun fact, it's still raining out here. I think my back is gonna have. Is gonna be umbrella.

Someone get this woman umbrella we have.

So I have. I don't know if you can see. I have an umbrella over me. So it's. It's not too bad. Oh, I might have messed up the camera. Okay, good talk. Talk a little bit about. About hosting because I've been to your house. I. I've seen. Seen you work your magic. And you're absolutely amazing at hosting. So tell. Talk about, like, what do you. How do you stay calm and how do you first. First tell me that. Well, you did say you put away your nice things.

Depends. Depends on who's coming over. No, but seriously, like, if my friends are coming over and they have little babies. Anything that's. And now I have little babies again. So I have just re. Baby proof my house. But I put things up that would be annoying that they would get into. That would distract us from just being able to sit on the couch and have coffee and let the kids play. So make your house not annoying for whoever is coming over. Put out stuff that you don't care, whatever, so you can really chill and be present. So whenever anyone is at my house, I do what I can do before, you know, clean, get ready. But once someone's at my house, whether it's one people, one people. Words are hard. One person or 100 people. I just do my best to be present in the moment. And I also, I love to have. One of my favorite things is to gather. I almost called my book Gather because organizing is gathering and I like to gather people as well, so. But we changed it to all things Lovely. But anyway, the thing for me is that I love to gather people that have diversity with a common goal of unity. And so it's just amazing that no matter what who I'm gathering or what group, it's amazing because it's like the like mindedness. Even people who believe different things, they think their common denominator is Jesus. Like you get in a room with people and all that goes away. It's just really amazing how God does that. So. But the heart for it has always come, I think from the greater love of the church, honestly, because the church isn't obviously something you just come to on Sunday and worship and hear an incredible message. Like, that's amazing. And that's, I mean, I'm your front row girl, have been since I was born. Like whether I'm leading worship or not, shout out worship leaders, get your butt on the front row and serve when you're not leading. Amen. But I think that being the church is so much different than showing up to church or serving at church. It's really being Jesus and it's being the church in your home. And I love the verse that says, you know, take care of the orphans and the widows. And I love that Jesus modeled that. He came into people's homes to eat with them and Jesus was a foodie. I'm going to make a T shirt that says that because Jesus was always around tables and eating with his friends and sometimes strangers, you know. And so I love that Jesus modeled that. There's actually value in community. There's value in eating together, breaking bread, and you know, it's going to be a good sourdough. Amen. So I think that that's something so special about Jesus that I love that he modeled is that. And so yeah, we started, we have our worship community over. We've been running worship at Bethel for 22 years coming up. And we just started seeing a need for more connection offstage than on stage. And we found a power that was really baffling when we would spend time together, whether coffee or we get together at my house, the whole team comes together. We really try to protect, travel that at least once a month, our whole team, whether you're on Bethel Music or on the local worship team, which to be on Bethel Music, you have to be a part of a local worship team. Fun fact that that would be where we would gather just to be normal and be life on life and pray together and we worship together, we eat good food. You know it. But that's kind of like the community, the worship community started to grow, but that's really our foundation. And when you're with people and you love them and you care for them, you're at their baby showers and their funerals and you know it. It translates to where you can go in the spirit because you know each other not just by name or by. You play guitar and I lead worship, but you know people by the spirit. And so where you can flow from that because you're in spirit is really baffling and beautiful. So that's kind of where our love came. And now I do all these secret retreats. We just did one two days ago that was just like, oh, so amazing. Just bringing all these diverse people together with the same common goal, to just get refreshed, worship together, pray together and eat good food. And it is just God does the rest. There is, like no agenda. So.

But you have been doing this for. This is a part of who you are. You've been doing this since before you remodeled your living room, right? Yes.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

What would you say to the person who's like, oh, well, if I had a big beautiful home like Jen, then I would have people over.

Yes. And we used to have, back in the day, you know, we would go other places to get together because we didn't have a space to contain everybody. And that's honestly why we made our house this massive open floor plan that is huge. You know, it's. We have a big family with eight now, but it's more than we need just for our family. But we did it because we wanted to have a home that also could be a gathering space. So. But yeah, we've. This is something we've done when we lived in a, you know, thousand or so square foot house. But we. We just met there with whatever was appropriate. And we usually had big gatherings somewhere else at the church or at someone's home who could fit us all in there, you know, so we finished ours. But yeah, it doesn't take money. It really doesn't. You can do community for practically Cheap. You just have everybody bring something. If you want to do it for inexpensive, have everybody bring something to share. We do this with our girls nights and find a place that can hold all of you. And community doesn't cost. It really doesn't. And it's so life giving. So yeah, there's no excuse for not for not pressing into community.

What are some things that you keep in stock at your house just in case a spontaneous visit or dinner happens?

Throw it together. My go to is normally bolognese and I keep frozen beef in my freezer at all times. And there's a lot of deer meat, which I don't like to cook, but Brian loves it, so I cook it. But that's one thing that I love because we always have some quick veggies. And I put that recipe in my book because it's just one of our families, especially mine. I love bolognese. So quick and just an easy pasta. I always have so much pasta on hand and that's kind of my go to. And usually there's a chocolate cake. It's not in my book, but I love that chocolate cake. So there's always something. And charcuterie is always easy. Just keep cheese, lami, olives, pickles, nuts on hand. And that's one of the things you.

Talk about in your book when you're feeding like large groups of people. Because I really love that part because feeding. I like to cook, but I don't like to cook for large groups of people. It is, it's very stressful and I don't, I don't always know, like, how much is enough.

Yes.

And yeah. So talk about, what do you call them?

Bars.

Bars.

Yes. Okay. It's the funnest way to host because yes. You cooking like a pasta for like 70 people is like next level. I'm not ever trying it. Right. But bars are amazing because food bars because you, first of all, when you're hosting, especially with like allergies or people's taste, I love to create a meal exactly like how I want it and so I love options. So for breakfast in the book, there's a taco bar. For breakfast tacos. I love breakfast tacos, but I know exactly how I like them. Some people like them spicy, some people hate cilantro or onion. So if you just kind of throw all the ingredients in bowls and make it so people can make their own, you can feed people super fast. They're eating exactly what they want and it's not getting cold. You don't have to worry about Burning it. And everything's pre prepared so you can kind of like make it, pull it out, go. And so there's so many options in the book of food bars. I could have written on them for like five more pages, but I was like, okay, reel it in, food bar girl.

Well, it's also another really easy thing when you're asking other people to bring something. You're like, hey, we're having a taco bar or we're having a chili bar, you know, and then it's like you have, we're having a, you have people just sign like, say, oh, I'll bring the, this, all the salsa and the chips or whatever. And then you end up having, being able to put something together that's thematic. But still you're not the one bearing the cost of the community or the.

Prep of it all either. Right down to like, if we have a party, I'm like, hey, can you bring all the plates? Nice forks. And then can you bring. So delegation is a huge part of hosting. I think if you want to host for pretty inexpensive, just, just delegate. Hey, we're gonna have a party. Can you bring, you know, we do it with Thanksgiving in our family. There's, there's a group text that goes out and everyone's assigned what they're gonna bring for Thanksgiving. And I'm always the charcuterie girl because Johnson, Thanksgiving starts at like 8:30 in the morning with cinnamon rolls. And we eat those until we eat snacks, which I bring charcuterie and veggies. And then we eat those until as we make dinner, we're eating the entire day. It's terrible. I have to fast before and after. Prepare my body.

Terribly wonderful. Okay, so before, before we go, I want to ask you. So people ask me this question a lot. I'm not going to ask you this question.

Coming for you. They found you. They're, they're coming. They're coming for me.

People ask me all the time because you know, oh, you do, you do ministry and you have kids and you, you know, all the things that you do. How do you balance it? And I think that's just such a, a random question. Cause it's like, I don't know, how do you balance your life? I just, I just do. I just. We, you know, we figure it out. There's obviously other things to it, but it, within that context more specifically, what I want to ask you is what are some non negotiables for you in your, in your everyday routine?

Yes. First of all, balance is absolutely impossible because Balance means that two things equal the same weight. And I don't just have two things, I have 400. So you're the same, everyone's the same. So balance just doesn't exist and neither does perfection. So that's God and he handles that well enough for all of us. So letting go of balance and perfection are I think, the two big rocks of life. And I say it's a juggle. You know, balls are in the air, balls get dropped. You just do your best. But I think at the end of the day, for me it comes down to the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit leads us and guides us by his word and by his voice. And he's always there for us, to help us. There's a verse that I love that says, you know, to go left or right, you'll hear a voice behind you. And I just love that verse because it is the nearness of the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us. But it is a juggle and it is not perfect. And you do your best to look over your week or look over your day and make time for it all. One of the most life changing visuals I am very visual that one of our pastors called Danny Silk gave us one time is, he said, imagine your life as a clear cylinder vase. Then imagine the big rocks in your life, the things that have to happen. Your children have to get fed and bathed. Then there are some smaller pebbles and then there's sand. He said, if you treat your week like that container, there really is only so many hours in the day and if you're haphazardly throwing things into the container, your container is going to be full and your big rocks could possibly not even fit because you didn't put the big rocks in first. And so for us, big rocks for me in our week are, we have a family dinner every Monday night. The kids come round, everybody knows it. Like Monday night is normally pretty clear of ministry things. We try not to book anything around it and so do our kids so we can have dinner together, which was really easy when they were little, but as they get older it's so difficult because it's like soccer, basketball, church. So Monday night is something that we really try to protect for just dinner with our kids all together because otherwise it's just like, you know, one or two or three minute time. And then Tuesday night is our date night. So come hell or high water, I'll cut somebody. But that is our date night that we just have to have or I get free. Freaking crazy. My quality time is my loveland. So those two things are our big rocks. And if I've got that man, I have a pretty good flow. And then church on Sunday, it's non negotiable. It's. I don't. If you are sick, you are staying home. Other than that, if your leg is broken, you are coming to church. If you're, you know, you'll get healed. So here we go. But if you're contagious, I love you. I believe, I have faith for it, but I'm have faith for you in this bed right here. So. So, yeah, those are kind of our big rocks. And I have to have fun. If I have fun on my calendar, going somewhere, going out to eat, because I'm a foodie, I have to see fun on my calendar. And then that, that just gives me a steady flow. Something vulnerably I'm working on right now. At this last retreat, we spent about an hour and a half of just listening to worship music and journaling and reading and having quiet time. And I just led all the girls in it. And I just sat there with my head on my arm on my counter and I just. I don't do it enough. I don't take time to stop. If I take time, I'm doing something, I'm watching something, I'm at a spa, I'm blah, blah, blah. But I'm just, I'm working on in my life. Like, I need time to just stop and let worship wash over me and just be with the Lord. And so that's what I'm actually working to make more time with. But those are my big rocks.

I love it. Thank you so much for doing this, for being on with me. I love you so much. I wish you didn't live on the other side of the country.

I just, I tell all my friends that we're going to have a house on the same block in heaven. I've already. I've already secured the real estate, so. Well, this is a moment. This is a blip. But we'll get to hang out for eternity, so. And I'm glad about that because I adore you.

I love you so much. And every time I'm around you, I learn something from you. And so I'm so glad that you put this book out so that everybody can be around you and have a piece of you. And it's so beautiful, too. Well done. Okay, so tell me, tell us, where can people find you if they want to follow you?

I'm most predominantly on Instagram, Jen, with two ends johnson2 fun fact. I made that account back in the day when AOL came out cause I didn't know you couldn't change it and that was your permanent thing forever. So I was obviously 20 and now here we are. So it's just followed me everywhere and I've never changed it because now it's my fun little private joke with myself. What's the 20? Is it 2000s? Is that what I'm like? Oh no. I was just 20 years old. I'm turning 40 this year. I can't believe it. So I won't ask you your age, but I am about to turn 40 and I've never loved life more. So that's a good thing.

Well, I'm going to tell you that I did not realize I'm older than you. I am 41. That's amazing. 40 is fun.

I agree. It's only gotten better and I I'm here for it. I'm so here for it.

Let's give away a copy of this book. I let's see, my team is telling me that Jessica Johnson Garcia and Tiffany Rubinus have been on with us consistently in the chat. Loving this and saying that you were so wise and full of wisdom. So Jessica and Tiffany, can you email me at Holly Furtick YouTube@elevationchurch.org that's a lot. Holly Furtick YouTube that's all one@elevation church.org and I will also put that email in the chat down below for you. And we're going to send you a copy of Jen's book. And Jen also, I forgot I had it in my notes. I love the new album.

You you know what we didn't talk.

About and we're out of town, out of time. But one, like if anybody has watched you for a while, it is how you don't like shoes.

Yes, yes. Two reasons. First reason I wish it was really spiritual and holy ground and all those things. But it's unfortunately not two things. I get so hot. I am an internal heater. You know how it is. The stage lights, it is just so. And if I am uncomfortable, I can't think straight. So I wear Black clothing 99% of the time and I wear no shoes because I get so hot and then it's less hot. And number two, when I wear shoes, I love heels. And so wearing heels and dancing like a crazy person will make you break an ankle. So Wisdom says don't wear shoes.

But you also don't wear shoes in your house either because I've been with you in Your house.

And I. I don't wear shoes outside either. I. My children literally mock me for mom. Your feet are like literally covered in black, like. And I'm a guy.

That's funny because actually, fun fact, I'm the absolute opposite of that. I always, always have either shoes or slippers or socks on.

I know I'm. I'm peculiar.

As the Bible says the tactile thing for me. I don't like feeling like I have dirty feet.

But anyway, the new album, Feet to Homecoming. Here we are, the new album.

It's called Homecoming and. Right. It's called Homecoming.

Yes. Oh, and tomorrow, tomorrow one of my favorite things we do comes out and it's that we have a peace album. It's like all of our friends do an album together and it's just the most peaceful. It is stunning. And volume two comes out tomorrow. Lauren Daigle's on it. It's so beautiful.

Oh, I can't wait. And I just want to say I love your song on the album, the one about Send Me. Is that what it's called? Send Me?

Yes. Chris Keelala. What a guy. Goodness sakes.

Also you. I love you.

I love you too. Tell Stephen I said I love him so much. Just what you guys do, who you are, your team, your songwriting, your preaching, flippin love you. So appreciative.

Thank you.

Love you too.

See you soon. Bye. Bye. All right guys, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jen. She is amazing. And make sure you go pick up a copy of her book. It's on Amazon and all the. All the places where you can buy books. Follow her on Instagram. Jen Johnson, 20 because she was 20 years old while ago, not too long ago. And if you like this interview, make sure you like subscribe. If you want to see more comment below, let me know someone else that you'd love for me to chat with. I will do my best and I'll see you back here next time.