Lunchtime Live with Sarah Jakes Roberts | Holly Furtick

Welcome to The Holly Furtick YouTube channel. It is time for another Lunchtime Live. I've got one of my wonderful, great friends here to chat with us today. Wonderful, great. I've never used those two words together before, but I am so excited to talk with my friend Sarah Jakes Roberts. She's going to be here with us in just a few minutes. I'm going to bring her on. If you are watching, send me a little chat. Let me know if you're here, let me know where you're watching from. It is 2 o' clock on the east coast, which is technically not lunchtime, but my friend Sarah is joining us during her lunchtime because it is 11 o' clock on the West Coast. So in the chat, let me know, what did you eat for lunch? If you have eaten lunch. All right, we got Moses Cisneros. He says, God bless you, Holly Furtick. Thank you, Moses. I'll take all the blessings I can get. We've got Becky Grant. We've got Racine Jackson saying good afternoon. Alana Tapia from Massachusetts. Thank you for the blessings. Maria Rizzo, she says, yay. The two of you are the most influential women of God in my life.

Wow.

Well, thank you. I'm honored to have that place in your life. Marie. We've got Georgior. Janet. Blessings. From Orlando, Florida. Lena from Canada.

Lindell.

Good morning. From New Zealand. Becky Grant, Raleigh. Oh, we've got Jamie Lee from South Africa.

Hello.

I was going to say g', day, mate, but that's not South Africa, that's Australia. I do know. All right, we got Sandra Gomez. Nobody's telling me what you ate for lunch. Let me scroll down to some of these people. Ok, let's see.

Chat.

Chiquita. What a cool name. I wish my name was Chiquita. Can you call me. Can anybody call me Chiquita from now on, Chiquita, you have not had lunch at just breakfast. All right, let's see. Kate from South Africa, 8:00pm there. All right, we've got Cheryl Silva from Naples, Florida. Marilyn Evans. Did not eat lunch yet. You had wheat pancakes for breakfast. Wheat pancakes sound delicious. Let's see who else. Who else has eaten lunch today? Doris had lasagna for lunch. Gabrielle from California says it's almost lunchtime. Nicole had baked ziti. I'm feeling an Italian vibe here. Amanda had steak and sweet potatoes. That's a fancy lunch. And Nicole, afternoon from Sweden. We had sandwiches. I love a good sandwich. There's nothing better than a good sandwich. That's what I think anyway. Konisha says she had Chick Fil A for lunch. I love Chick Fil A, too. Okay, guys, you're probably bored with hearing me talk about food. If you want to know what I ate for lunch, we had a little birthday party here. They had some Mexican. My husband and I are on Whole30. It is day 24 of Whole30, which means it's been 24 days since I have had any kind of sugar or sweetener. Any kind of grains. That includes brown rice and quinoa and all of the good, yummy oats. That also includes what else haven't I had? I've had no beans. I've had no sugar. I've had no Dairy for 24 days. Guys, it's just a little, you know, reset plan. Got my approved kombucha here that I'm drinking. Well, I haven't even opened it yet, but should I get thirsty? That's what I have. Let's talk to Sarah. This is boring. Somebody bring her on. I need to see my friend. Is she coming on? There we go.

Hey, friend. Hi. How are you?

I'm good.

Thank you for having me on your YouTube. I didn't know that you were, like, not eating sugar. That's not. I don't know how I feel about that.

Not just not eating sugar, Sarah. Not eating any kind of sweetener. That means no sweet and low. No stevia, no honey, no nothing.

Not even the fake stuff?

Not even the fake.

Do you feel great, though? Are you one of those people? Like, I feel so good. I have so much more energy and. No, nice.

I feel better about myself.

Well, that's important. That counts.

You know, I feel a little snobby, like, a little healthy. But, no, not really. I mean, I don't think it. Nah.

I'm.

You know, I could take a nap any time of day, so it doesn't matter what I ate.

I'm always down for it. That's right. Well, life is a lot, so naps are great.

I like your T shirt. Crushed it.

Thank you. You crushed it on Mother's Day. I finally got to go hear your message. I love when Holly preaches, and it is preaching. Oh, yeah. Thank you.

All right, Sarah, in case anybody watching does not know who you are, Sarah is a New York Times bestselling author and entrepreneur. You can buy that T shirt that she has on@womenofolved.

Yeah. Dot com. Yeah.

Okay. She is a podcast host, if you like podcasts. I have to say, Sarah, I love your podcast. I'm not really a podcast person, so full disclosure, I Only check on your podcast occasionally. I'm more of an audiobook girl, but Sarah's podcast is always so relevant and funny, and we rescue Eve and. And we give out Hail Marys. And I love it when you have your sister Cora on. You and your sister have, like, really great energy and banter together. And people tell me the same thing about my sister. Must be a sister thing for sure.

When I see you guys in the kitchen, I feel the same thing. Growing up with sisters, it's kind of complicated, right, because you're, like, kind of built in best friends, but also built in frenemies. And yet when you get into adulthood, I think you find your rhythm and then it becomes even better.

100%. 100%. Okay, so let me go. Let me start over. New York Times bestselling author, entrepreneur, podcast host, of course, an incredible preacher, pastor's wife, mother of six children, and also the daughter of Bishop T.D.

Jakes. Yeah.

You're amazing. You are crushing it. I love you.

I'm doing what I can out here.

Okay, couple, like, let's get to know you just a little bit. Things people might not know about you. Some fast questions.

Okay.

Fiction or non fiction?

Fiction. Thanks. It's not good all the way. Yeah, I have some.

I have some book recommendations for you that I've been.

Okay. Because I just read a book. I just read Four Winds by Kristin Hannon because, you know, you told me about the Nightingale and Four Winds was really something. Have you read that one yet?

Oh, yes, I have read that. I love that book. It was so. A single mom during the Great Depression. I mean, it's hard and resilience, just.

Like, you know, it went nowhere very fast. And I kind of like that because it made you, like, really breathe in the era and the moment they were living in. I thought it was beautiful. I loved it.

100% full disclosure.

Anybody watching?

If you know Kristen Hannah, I would really like to do it as a book club book, but I can't get her.

What can we do? Who do we. Who do we know? Who does she follow? How do you stop people? Are you stalking people the right way?

Well, so here's the thing. You know, I stalked Dr. Edith Eger.

Now you did good, too. You got her.

I did get her, but I didn't want to annoy all my followers by stalking another author. I feel like that would be a little, you know, a little too much, I think, anyway. Well, I might.

I might.

Well, if you think they like it, I might do it, but. Kristen.

Hannah.

Okay, so you Read the Four Winds. Okay, I'm not going to talk about this for a long time, but my. My. My book club pick for this month is called Kitchens of the Great Midwest. And you have to read it. You will love it. I'm going to read it. Okay. Kitchens of the Great Midwest. It's awesome. All right. Audiobook, ebook, or hard copy?

Hard copy. I want to hold it. I want to flip the pages. Yeah, hard copy. I love.

So when I read the Four Winds, I was like, I want to read this book so bad. I'm getting a hard copy. So I got a hard copy of the book, but then I got so into it, I was like, I can't wait until nighttime to pick up this book. And so I got the audiobook, and I would listen to the audiobook during the day, and then I would read the book at night, and then I was done in, like, two days. But I could. I'm too impatient to hold a book.

Because I just like to say you need time to, like, really get through it.

That's true. Okay, so Jen M. Velez wants to know what is your go to treat or meal to indulge in Spaghetti with.

Toast and salad on the side. So basic, it's not even fancy. But I am obsessed. Obsessed with spaghetti. It's amazing.

Really? I did not know that about it.

I obsessed with spaghetti now, too. Like, she loves spaghetti. I'm obsessed.

Are we talking specifically about spaghetti noodles, too, or will you take any kind of pasta?

No, I want thick spaghetti noodles and spaghetti sauce, like, with meat sauce and ground turkey and Italian sausage and fresh herbs and onions, and I want to let it simmer for a little while. And I want garlic bread, and I want the sauce to touch the gar bread, and I want my salad with ranch dressing, and I want it to all kind of mix in at one part of my plate. And that is the place where the glory resides, where all of that just mixes in together.

Okay. I'm so with you. I'm down for pretty much all good food. We had spaghetti, Whole 30 spaghetti last night, which means the sauce with no sugar over spaghetti squash.

Yeah.

But no parmesan cheese.

Happens. And it was good. Yeah. I haven't quite turned the corner on, like, I know the zoodles and spaghetti noodles, and I mean the squash noodles and then even palmini, but I haven't quite turned the corner fully on the fake noodle world.

You know, for 30 days. It'll get the job done.

Okay. That's all I'm going to say.

All right. What's your go to meal to cook when you have company coming over?

Oh, I don't have a go to meal when company comes over, but I need one. It depends on who the company is. Like, if it's like, family, like, during the pandemic, the rare times that we've had family over, it's always been like, soul food. Like, macaroni and cheese, like, all of the things. But if we're trying to be, like, fancy, I'll probably do, like, a fancy chicken. Like, the business partner, someone is coming over. Like, we'll do a nice little salmon and some mixed vegg, a nice beautiful salad. But that's, you know.

Do you have a signature dessert?

Does the chocolate pound cake you taught me to make count as a signature dessert? Because it is made all of the time in my house.

Okay. I have a new recipe for you. So I found a recipe that is very similar to that one, only it has sour cream instead of cream cheese, and it has. It has a. Like, a half a cup of peanut butter in the batter, and then you make a peanut butter glaze on the side, and you don't have to heat the glaze, which, because, you know, I'm like, a super lazy cook. So it's like confectionary sugar, peanut butter, and a little bit of whipping cream, and you just, like, get it together. And then I gave it, like, 20 seconds in the microwave and poured it over the cake. I made it for my mom's birthday, and she said my mom is very picky about her desserts, and she said it was the best cake she'd had in a long time. I, of course, didn't taste it. I'm on Whole 30, but.

Okay, you have to send that to me, like, preferably before I go home so that I can stop by the grocery store.

Okay, done. I will do it. Okay. All right, Sorry.

Moving along.

We need to get to the important stuff, but here's one that's sort of not important at all. Who is your favorite person that you follow on social media that you do not personally know?

Oh, Beyonce. Beyonce.

I. I knew you were gonna say that.

I knew that. I really. I was trying to be deep in spiritual so that people could really think well of me. But I. I've just landed on Beyonce. That's all I've got.

All right, if you're watching, I want other people to comment. Who's somebody that. A celebrity that you follow that you don't know that you love to follow? I love Jennifer Garner. Do you follow her?

Oh, yeah. She's great. But to know Jennifer Garner. I know.

Maybe you could introduce me.

Maybe she needs to write a book so that she can be in the book club and then I could just find a way to get her in there.

Maybe we could cook together, the three of us.

Oh, that would be great. At her house. She needs. She needs to invite us over to cook.

She does. She. I love her little pretend cooking show. Okay. Something that you cannot live without right now.

These are hard hitting questions.

Okay, while you're thinking, I'm going to read some other people's comments. Natalie Chambers says Hillary Duff, who just had a baby. Let's see who else somebody says Michelle Obama. We should have said that.

Yeah, I thought, I thought about it, but I didn't want to get so political so fast. Holly.

That's true. Better to stay safe. You know me, I'm not in for anything. All right. Tina says Will Smith. Lots of people are saying Reese Witherspoon. Jennifer Lopez. God bless Jennifer Lopez.

Yeah. And her whole 30 out of her room. She is a whole 30. Like she deserves her flowers. She's her, she's amazing.

I just, I just really want everybody to leave her alone.

Oh, I know. And then she's. Well, never mind. Well, I'll call you back. No worries.

All right.

Okay.

We got Oprah. What did you think? So what, what is your. What did you say? Something you can't live without right now.

I don't, I don't, like, I don't have things. Things are not. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know, my phone. I don't really have. I don't, hey, I don't, I don't know, sleep, you know, things I want to hold on to, you know, probably don't qualify for this. My little to go containers. My little meal prep to go containers. It's boring. But I've been packing my lunch, so I've been coming to like, you know, like 5 or 6 o' clock in the morning, and then I'm here until like 5 o' clock at night doing book tour stuff. And so I was ordering a lot of food and then I was like, no, I'm going to meal prep. And now I'm like crazy over my meal prep containers. MacKenzie tries to use them for her lunch and she's homeschooled, so you don't even need to pack a lunch because you can just go downstairs like I'm crazy. And then PT tries to throw them away. And I'm like, we can wash these and reuse Them, don't throw them away. So maybe my little meal prep containers. Very boring. That's.

That's not boring at all. I'm totally. I'm. I brought my. I've been bringing my lunch to the office as well. And last night I'm not a morning person, so I'm always rushing in the morning. So last night I was like, I'm gonna. I'm. Okay. So here's full disclosure. Something I could not live without right now on whole 30 is watermelon. I have eaten so much watermelon, I am embarrassed to tell you how much watermelon I have eaten in the last 24 days. So last night I had a big container of cut up watermelon and I made my own little container to bring to the office. And one of my children, Elijah Furtick, had a midnight snack and he ate my water, which wasn't a big deal because there was more, but I had just made my own container.

So now I have to make my own container. And I'm already late. I'm late already at midnight. I'm late to work.

Okay, what was one thing that got you through the pandemic?

My balcony. There's a balcony off of our bedroom and it didn't have any furniture or anything out there. But I would just go out there because no one ever expected for me to be out there. So when people knock on my door, I can't hear it. And I'd close the blinds before I went out there so no one would know that I was out there. And it became Mexico. Like I would close my eyes and I would be in Mexico. The pandemic. And being in the house with everyone was really special.

This is my last question. Which person in your house was the most annoying during quarantine? I'm just kidding.

You don't have to answer that. Yeah, I was going to answer it.

I love all your people in your house. None of them are annoying.

That's right, that's right, that's right. I'll text you the answer though.

Okay, Sarah, just in case that there is someone who is watching who doesn't really know your story, can you give us like the 62nd version of your story?

Yes. I got pregnant as a teenager. I was 13 years old. Had my son at 14. I spent 10 years after that in a toxic relationship with myself.

Others.

God. And then I had my breaking point. And at that point I really decided to try and see if the guy that I learned about growing up was actually real and applied to girls who had had Lives the way that I had. And I discovered God and decided sharing it with as many people who would listen. 60 seconds.

You're good at that.

That was awesome. I've had some practice.

My favorite thing that you said is I had some toxic, toxic relationships with people, including myself.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's a very deep thing to unpack. Okay, I can't pronounce this person's handle. I hate it when people like you try to give them a shout out and you're like, I. I don't even know. It's wa. Wa. I ring kangi. They want to know what is a typical day in your life. Now you're on book tour right now. So you could give us a typical book tour day, or you could just give us typical day in your life. They said specifically faith, kids, husband, everything.

Okay. So I wake up usually before anyone else in the house wakes up. I make, like, my hot water and lemon and aloe, and I float. I call it floating around my house. I pray, I meditate, I breathe. I think about the day. I meal prep for myself and my husband for the day. So I pack our lunches. I spend some time with the girls before they go to school. I work out. All of this is taking place within the house. I go and work out for the morning. Usually the girls are in school by then, so no one's knocking on the door. I work out. I shower. I get dressed. I come for. I do whatever interviews, meetings that we have. I leave. I usually have something to pick up from the grocery store so that I can go home and cook dinner. I cook dinner. We sit down as a family. I restores to Ella before bed. I hug her. I grab my sleep mask, wash my face, and collapse in the bed.

That's a full day. You exercise every day?

No, but I try to, like, stretch or like, to do something because, like, things like hurt when I wake up, the bones are popping. When I go up the stairs, like, I do something.

Do you have anybody that you talk to on the phone almost every day?

Yes. Shanice. Shanice is like. She's like. She's like co founder of Woman Evolved slash friend slash sisters slash business partner. But we talk every day about literally any and everything. Because you basically knows everything about my life.

It's great to have people like that in your life. All right, let's talk about preaching for a minute.

Let's go.

Do you remember the first sermon you ever preached?

I do.

What was it? Do you remember the title?

I don't. If I tried really hard, I Could. The first sermon I ever preached, like, on a Sunday was in LA for my husband. He's my husband now. He wasn't my husband then, but it was on Mother's Day is my first time speaking on a Sunday. My first time, like, taking a text and like, having a sermon. And the displaced crown. That's what it was called, a displaced crown, or the displaced crown, something like that.

I didn't know that. I mean, I just assumed that because I know your story and I know you lived in Dallas for a little while and that's kind of where you were living in Dallas when you met Terry. Right, right. So then you go out there. I knew I. You had even said that in your sermon this weekend, that the first time you ever preached at one LA was on Mother's Day, so. Oh, I forgot to tell everybody. We're giving away several copies of Sarah's book. Let's give one away right now. Um, let's see. Stephanie Wells, you get a book. What do they have to do again, if they get the book? Email me at Holly Furtick, YouTube, elevationchurch.org I'm going to put it in the chat and you can email me and we will send you a copy of this book. So stay on, guys. And I'm going to. I'm going to give some more of these away. Okay, so you. Mother's Day is the. So you had never preached at your dad's church before you preached?

Our church. I've only been, like, preaching for seven years.

Wow, that's amazing. And Terra just. Just knew you could do it.

Yeah. So what I'd been doing before then is I would go and share my story just about my teen pregnancy and discovering God. So, like, at a women's conference, I was like the person they'd put up before the preacher, you know? Gotcha. And so. And then I'd written a book about my story, and so I was going around talking about my story, and when I met him, it was really just, you know, can I share my story with your community? And he was like, I think you should, should preach a message on Sunday. I was like, I don't really preach, but I would be glad to say something before someone else preaches. And he was like, no, I think you should do it. And then I was like, I left the meeting with no intention of actually going to preach on Sunday when it was on Mother's Day and I'd never been away from my mom on Mother's Day. So I called my mom and I was like, girl, you're not gonna believe this. This man thinks that I should preach on Sunday. He has no idea. And she's like, I think you should do it. And then so I did. And then, you know, everything kind of changed for me from that moment on. That's.

That's amazing. I truly did not know that about you. Also, when you said your mom said, I think you should do it, I could totally hear her voice. I bet she was like, I think you should do it, baby.

Yeah, for sure. A beautiful, soft little whisper.

I love your mom so much. Okay, so you preach this sermon. When you were done, how did you feel?

Like I'm never doing that again. I can't do that again ever.

I feel that way almost every time.

Now. I start feeling that before I preach. It's like, why don't you just let the last one be the last one? Why do you keep signing up for this trauma? But, you know, there is a surrender connected with preaching, and I think it shines through when you do that. When you do it from the heart posture, I think, in which we do it for other people. It is. It's like a high, and they feel super confident, and that's what they do. But when you're breaking out of yourself in order to do it, like, it's. It's tempting to just stay safe and not do it at all. Yeah.

Jessica Garcia says she remembers the first time she ever heard you preach, and it was at the Elevation campus. And she said that your sermon spoke so profoundly to her. Hey, Jessica, you get a book to Holly Furtick. YouTubeVationChurch.org Send me an email. We're gonna send you a book. So how is your preaching changed since the first time that you. That you preached?

Okay, so I'm naturally very studious. So when I first started preaching, I had, like, an outline that looked like an English essay outline that kind of outlined every single point I was going to hit. I would basically memorize that and then basically just recite what I memorized. And so it was very controlled and restricted and within the parameters of what I felt like. I knew the more that I began to practice, well, the more that I began to speak and, you know, kind of got some more experience under my belt. There was this one message I preached, and very still, very much so with that formula of the outline in the essay. But the message was called unleashed. And I preached it the first Sunday of 2018. And I was planning on sticking to my notes, but it was like I literally got unleashed from my notes and had this, like, out of Body experience where I felt like I stepped into something that was bigger and greater than me. And now I feel like ever since that moment, that first Sunday of 2018, that I've kind of had these, you know, consecutive moments when preaching where it felt like, okay, that's no longer me up there. God has taken over and, like, giving me knowledge about what needs to happen in the room. So I'm a lot more free than I was before, even though that freedom makes me uncomfortable. Right. Because you're projecting and you're saying things that you ordinarily wouldn't say in a way that you wouldn't necessarily say them. But from that place of surrender, I become someone that is definitely, like, under God's complete authority in that moment.

And it's an amazing thing to watch you. To watch you do. So how do you prepare now?

I still study the way that I studied before, and I kind of bullet point my notes out, but I don't. I'm not as married to the notes as I was before, and I don't feel like if I don't complete this outline and memorize it, I'm going to fail. There's a lot more room for, like, the Holy Spirit to say, okay, you know, I'm like, whatever you want to do in this moment, let's do it. And I. I'm able to partner better with God. Before, I was preaching, but it was still me preaching within my control. I remember even everything must go for elevation. Like that Friday, that Saturday night that I preached, I was like, never doing this again. And how am I going to do it in the morning? I think I've been, this is not a good idea. Save me somebody. But then that Sunday morning when I got up to preach, I just felt like, all right, whatever you want to do, God. And I felt like that. That sermon has, like, echoed beyond what I could have ever imagined. And I think it's just a testament to, like, God taking over in that moment. Mm.

It's such a cool sermon. I mean, you had me with the opening illustration. First of all, everything was going.

You talked about when you see a.

Sale sign, it says everything. I still think that even when they're like, all of our fixtures are on sale, I have this moment every time when I see a sign like that.

I'm like, maybe I should go. Maybe I should, right? Because what is that? I might need a life fixture, have sales, but go ahead.

Me too. But all I was gonna say is, from the get go, that sermon just like it. It was. It was so Great and so powerful. Do you. So you don't always feel like you do a good job, though, when you're done preaching?

No. Sunday's Mother's Day message. Like, PT wasn't there when I recorded it. And so he asked me later. He was like, how'd your. How'd your sermon go? And I was like, I don't really think it made any sense, you know, but my heart was in the right place. And I said what God told me to say, and I'm just going to leave it at that. But not. No, I definitely don't always feel like I do a good job. But one of the things I always ask myself is, like, did you say what God told you to say? Like, did you get up there and start speaking in your own strength or making stuff up? No. So I said what I felt like God told me to say. And I just kind of rest in that and allow it to live. You know, I don't necessarily go back and rehearse it, but I let it live from that space.

It's a really, really hard thing to do. Do you have any rituals, like, before or after you preach?

Yeah, I definitely breathe. Oh, gosh, I have so many. Okay. Before I preach. So I'm definitely breathing and centering myself after I've studied. So, you know, my dad has these, like, steps. He's like, study yourself full, think yourself clear, pray yourself hot, and let yourself go. And so I think in many ways, it's a reflection of that. So I've studied. I understand where I'm going, but, like, I'm seriously breathing if I'm feeling really insecure and inadequate. Like, yesterday I preached something, and I just didn't feel good before I started preaching. And I was listening to Old Church Basement and the song Build you'd Church was playing. And at the end, Naomi Rain's like, keep preaching, keep talking. Keep. You know, how beautiful are the feet. And so I allowed that to, like, really meet me in that space of inadequacy. So I'm all inadequacy. So I'm always in the place of worship, always breathing. And then I just. There's this part in the book which we may or may not talk about where I felt like God told me that I always knew to expect something like this from you. And so I live in that consciousness before I begin to. To speak, and that helps me. And then afterwards, I usually want it, like, celebrate that I did it again by eating a cookie or something that says, like, wow, we really did this. One more time.

Cookies are so.

Are so good, especially on Whole 30 watermelon cookies.

Cookies. Okay. So your dad is an incredible preacher. And. And he. I'm sure that there are things that you have learned from him. Can you think of anything, like, is there anything that you. I mean, obviously you kind of just answered that question, but is there anything that you. That you see in your preaching that you got from your dad?

For sure. I think my father really understands what that moment in the text means to the entire biblical narrative. And I think that he does an exceptional job of, like, zooming people out of the picture to understand what this moment represents, why it's so important. And so I definitely see that in my preaching. My dad's a master storyteller. I am not a master storyteller. I'm like a novice storyteller. But I do think the idea of really painting a story so that it feels relatable to a circumstance that could be modern day is something that he's really good at that I can see happening in my. In my preaching as well.

I think you're really good at that. Not just telling a story, like a story from your house, but a story or from your life or whatever. But when you retell the Bible story and the narrative and even in the book, like, when you wrote. When you write about Eve waking up and. And the whole idea of, like, bringing me to this realization of, like, yeah, what would it be to wake up as an adult woman and to just, you know, So I really do think that you are super great at that. Skybound says, what advice would you give young moms in ministry? I would just say moms in general. Yeah, Skybound, we're going to send you a book.

My advice would be like to practice your ministry with your children. There's so much that I learned about the human experience in raising my children that I don't think that I really understand fully as an adult. Because we grow and we forget what it's like to, you know, have these experiences for the first time. And I feel like their first entrance into the world, and those experiences that they take on really reflect what we lose somehow in adulthood, but also how deep our wounds can be, even as adults. And so I would say really recognize the ministry that is available to apply even to what your children are experiencing. I would also tell young moms or moms in general in ministry that, like, your nurturing. Nurturing ability is a superpower. When we talk about church and theology in general, for the most part, when we think about the Godhead, we only see this masculine representation of God. And yet I feel like part of the reason why God has allowed my ministry to touch as many people as it has is that there is something about this nurturing aspect of God that isn't as rigid, that isn't as hard, that is comforting and meets you where you are and challenges you to be where you are supposed to be that we haven't always seen in church in spaces of faith. And so your ability to nurture your family is a superpower that is necessary for the churches that we're leading. Because everything can't. Like, if dad is just the only one in the house, it is going to be a lot more rigid. It's not going to be as sensitive to where other people's wounds and scars are. And yet we have a bleeding generation. We have a hurting community, and we need the nurturing love that can come through a woman's representation of God in ministry. So. So don't let it keep you from thinking that you, the place you are more necessary because of it.

I think that I could not agree with that more. I think that even every time that I get up to preach, you know, I want to make sure that even like this past weekend, I'm preaching for Mother's Day. Well, I don't. I don't want all the men or the people who don't have children to think, oh, this sermon isn't for me. But at the same time, just because I'm preaching to men and women, it. I don't have to. I need to lean into the feminine viewpoint that I have and realize that I don't need to squelch that I need to lean into it. Not that every illustration is about being a mom or being a woman, but just being able to lean into that because the only thing that people want is the most authentic version of yourself that you can give them. And so if you're up there, like, trying to preach like a man, then it's not gonna. It's not. That's not what people want. That's not what comes through and ministers to people and. Yeah, I couldn't agree with that.

More. Totally agree.

Let's talk about this book. So many people are on here commenting about how much they love the book. New York Times bestseller. When do I get a new cover? I need a new cover.

I know, I know. They're in production right now because, you know, he had to put that sticker on. That's crazy. I cannot believe it.

I. I can believe it. And I was so happy when I heard that.

I think.

I actually think your dad was with us and he was the one that, that, that told us.

And I was just.

I was, I. I was so happy. I couldn't be. It's so well deserved. Really well done. I actually, I feel like I, I have watched this, this book come to life through your preaching and, and even through your podcast, because it's a message that you have been. I mean, the message, the conference, everything, just the whole idea of woman evolve and all of the pieces of what that means to you and all the different aspects of your life. But then to get it in written form, I just think it's so great. A Prince 13 said, what inspired you to write this book? And why did you write it? And I'm going to add to that so you can bring us into that. Like, what inspired you? Why did you write it? And then we'll just answer that and then I'll ask my next question.

Okay. Not only did you see the book come to life, when I finally decided I was going to write again, I sent you that first snippet just like, to see what you would think about it. You know, I got this revelation about Eve as I was speaking to all of these different women. So, you know, I started preaching 2014, and now, like, preaching is like something that I'm doing a lot. And I'm speaking to different women and I'm hearing their experiences and their stories, and I'm matching it up with the character of God and the message that God would want to share with these women. And then there's this woman that I always skip past in the Bible, and it's Eve. Because Eve, obviously, you know, she's just. She's not our superhero. We don't love Eve. And yet something told me that I needed to go back and look at her story. And when I went back and looked at her story, I recognized that by skipping past Eve, that we were skipping past ultimately, like God's heart, intention, and blueprint, not just for women, but for all of humanity. We see God's intention, we see humans, humanity coming in and messing up that intention, and still God bringing restoration. And then all of a sudden I'm like, eve is the clearest example for me of what it means to be a woman trying to navigate the world and trying to still lay hold of God's intention in spite of what happened to me. She knew better, but didn't do better. I thought it was going to be a really great sermon, but the more that I preached it and the more That I studied it. I felt like, no, there's more to it. There's more to it. And so I was like, maybe I'll host a conference. And I did the conference. And then I was like, but there still feels like there's more women who need this story. There's still a message here. And we toured, and it just felt like I hadn't fully excavated the wisdom of her life. And so the book for me was an opportunity to really dive in and dig in, not just so that I could rescue Eve, but so that I could rescue any woman who felt like I'm in a world that sometimes feels bigger than me. I'm trying to figure out where I fit in this world. I'm making mistakes along the way. Is there anything left for me? And so woman Evolve is just the capstone to me continuing this journey with Eve.

And so that's my first question, because, I mean, right away, one of the first things that I underlined in the book is where you say, he say, but if you're like me, there are times throughout the day when my discipline to do what I know is good and right is overshadowed by the temptation to do what I know I will ultimate what I know will ultimately slow my progress. In other words, you know what it's like to know better but not do better. So, and. And really, it's. That's like a thread that.

That.

That is woven throughout the book. So what. What do you. What is some practical advice that you would give to those of us who are like, yeah, that's me. I know better. But I. I just. I don't do what I know I'm supposed to do.

Well, it can be very overwhelming when we start listing out all of the things that we know better but aren't doing better. And so I would tell that person, let's start with one area of your life, one area at a time. To evolve is a slow, gradual becoming right. And I feel like a lot of times we give up on becoming better because it's just too much work to go from raggedy to where I'm supposed to be right. But if we can start with just, like, one area. I want to change the way I feel about my body. I want to come to place where I really have confidence that is built on how God sees me and not the shortcomings that I have with my body. Once we identify that area that we're going to work on, let's start talking about the thoughts connected to this moment. Like, what are the thoughts that come to My mind when I actively make the decision to not do better. And once we dissect those thoughts, we get to the root of like, okay, so this is a pathology that has existed in my mind. What is a scripture? What is a higher thought that will help me, me stop these thoughts in their tracks before they become the fruit of my actions. And so I say take it one step at a time. Recognize the thoughts connected to them. Are they profitable? Are these thoughts rooted in fear and self hate and doubt and worry? Or are they rooted in faith and kindness and love and peace and joy towards yourself? And to begin practicing those new thoughts, ultimately those thoughts should be a reflection of what God says about us. But I feel like that's a really good place to start.

I love that. I love the idea with, with starting small and starting with one thing because I think the temptation is to just go. It's too much. I. There's too many things I need to change. I'll never, I'll never be better. I'll never do better. And it's, I think that's like a cycle that the enemy wants to keep us in. Is I, you know, I could never lose 30 pounds. Pounds. Well can you lose five and you know, or can you, can you go one week? Can you whatever. And like starting small is, is, is so great and even doing something, and I'm hearing you say this too, like something, sometimes it's actually something physical. It's not necessarily something spiritual first. It's something physical first. Because doing something physical helps change your mental outlook or, or the way that you, that you see yourself for sure.

Just like chain doing something negative does too. Like so you're doing whole 30 and you're like I'm actually kind of proud of myself for doing it. Like it's not changing my life in any way that I can see, but I'm proud of myself for doing it. When we do the opposite of what we know we should do, we call ourselves weak. It helps us to stay in a cycle of low self esteem. Like so it's changing us one way or another. You're making a decision. And so it's like do I want to allow this cycle to continue to deteriorate who I am or do I want to grow as a result of it? And if I'm choosing growth and I need thoughts that help me to water the seed of growth that I'm hoping to experience.

Love it. So, ok, we've talked about the title of your book which I truly, truly love. And I want you to speak More about this idea of evolving as a woman. I feel like me and you, we've been friends for four years, and I really only know you as the Sarah that's married to Terry the minister. And I know you as the. The incredible mom that you are. And there's a part in the book where you talk about how you were standing in front of the mirror and pointing out all the things that you didn't like that you saw. So how do you do. How do you see. What do you do when you don't see yourself the way, like, I see you? Because I don't really know that much about your past. I didn't know you before. You weren't a minister and a mother and all of those things. So what are some practical things that you do when you look in the mirror and you don't like the Sarah that you see? Even though the Sarah that everybody else sees is amazing?

What is.

What are some things that you do to coach yourself?

Oh, goodness. Okay, so I tell you what. This is one thing I do try to do, even with what the Sarah that everyone else sees. Like, I try to be very transparent about, like, my feelings about a moment or that I don't necessarily feel like, you know, I killed this. Like, even during the book tour, I was really intentional being like, yo, I'm stressed. This is crazy. I'm nervous. I'm sweating through my clothes. Do y' all see this sweat coming? So, like, I try to make sure that I am bringing myself into the moment too, because I don't want people to have this picture of me that makes it look so easy when I'm literally stretching myself to be who they think I am at my norm. Having said that, there is an opportunity for people to reflect to you what God says about you. And there are moments when people are saying kind things about me or they're saying, like, you're anointed. And there's a part of my soul that needs to hear that. But I walk around so guarded that I don't allow those words to penetrate. And so I've been challenging myself to really allow those words to, like, talk to that version of me that still feels inadequate to talk to that version of me that feels less than and has low self esteem or is questioning and wondering. So when my husband tells me, like, girl, you're beautiful, instead of being like, child, do you see this value to allow for a moment to not be so defensive and beating myself up that I don't allow his words to penetrate the area of my life? That is experiencing a drought. And so it does require being present not just with those around you, but present with every part of your soul and your body. It's not often that we have the opportunity to hear when God is speaking kindness and lovingly towards us, but when he is, I think that we should pause everything and allow it to really feed us this.

Yeah, I think I was having a conversation with someone the other day and they were like, God doesn't. God doesn't talk to me like that. And it was sort of in the context of the voices in your head. If they're harsh and condemning and, and, you know, shameful. Those are not God thoughts. Those. Those are coming from somewhere else and just learning how to. Just like you are receiving from Terray the things that he's saying, learning how to receive those things from God. How about. How about like the. Your past and. And do you ever deal with shame from your past?

I don't deal with it much now only because I have seen how God has literally taken everything that I had shame about and is used it to create this life that I could have really never dreamed of. But I still recognize the voices of shame when they're trying to, like, rear their head. I feel like you. I do. Okay, so I can feel. I know when shame is talking to me because I still have these feelings. And usually when I start pinpointing them, that's like my initial feeling. You know, the enneagram thing where they're like, talk about. The core emotion is sadness. Like, that's one of my core emotions is sadness. So when something is wrong with me, like, I don't get angry, I usually start feeling very sad. And that sad makes me feel ashamed in some way. And I think because I've just had this cycle of feeling shame for so long that whenever something goes wrong, I immediately take the blame. I immediately begin to feel shame. And so what I've been trying to do, Holly, is like, I've been trying to remind myself in the moment where I'm starting to have like the sad storm and the shame storm, that at the end of the day, like, I am human. Like, I am not going to do everything well and I am going to get some bumps and bruises along the way. And those bumps and bruises can then be used to teach my children, to teach those around me how to do better. But to think that I'm going to do life without any scars is just. Honestly, it's impossible. The other thing I've been doing is like, I speak to myself about whatever Mistake I make the way that I would want someone to speak to my daughter. And I think a lot of times the voices that we say to ourselves are never words that we would say to our daughter. And so I think it's very much so, like mothering myself, right? And when I have those moments when shame is taking over, that's amazing.

I never thought of that about that before. But even, like, when you're disciplining your children, you're not like. I mean, you might be mad at them, not going to lie. But later when you have, like, the actual conversation and just saying, I'm not mad at you. I just. I just want us. I want us to. I want you to grow in this area and learning to talk to yourself that way. That's incredible. All right, so you tell this story in the book about when your seat changed at church. Can you tell us? Can you talk a little bit about that and why it's significant to. To the bottom? Okay.

So I didn't even think it was a big deal until I started writing the book. So there's a part that comes before that where I'm like, if we can get to the root of your actions, we can change your actions. So this is going back to that. Know better, not doing better. And then, you know, I kind of went down this spiral. But basically, I challenged the readers to identify a moment in their life where they first felt insecure, when they first felt nervous, when they first felt afraid. You know, as early back as they can date it. You know, for me, it ended up happening when I was seven years old. Eight years old. I was eight years old. And it seemed so silly until I did it in the book. Until I wrote this in the book. So we moved from Dallas to West Virginia in 1996, the first Sunday that our family opened the church in Dallas, there were 1500 people there. Prior to that, when we were in West Virginia, we would sit with my mom. Everyone was family. Nobody really cared that we were like TD Jakes daughter or daughters or children. And so when we moved to Dallas, like, that became a big deal. So when we went to Dallas, I no longer sat with my mom. My mom sat up on the pulpit. We sat down on the floor. And I can remember that first Sunday experiencing this separation from her and wondering, like, where do I fit in the middle of this? I don't know the people around me. I don't have my mom, which is like my security blanket beside me. What do I do? And that idea of, where do I fit? Do I belong Here. Here is the same voice that haunts me when I'm about to speak, like, you don't belong here. You don't fit. And so what I see now is that a lot of the actions that have been toxic in my life were really me trying to answer this question. Do I belong here? Maybe I don't belong there. Do I belong here? Would you make me feel like I belong here? A lot of that was me trying to answer that question. And the reason why it fits in the book. Book is because the serpent doesn't tell Eve to eat from the fruit. He just asked her a question. And her need to find an answer to that question ultimately led to her eating from this forbidden fruit. And so I challenge the reader to see if they can discover the question that their soul has been trying to answer.

It's such an incredible story because I think it's a very. You don't give a lot of. Of peeks into what it's like to be Bishop Jakes's daughter. And so to see that and to think about just to. To be a part. To have your parents planting and growing this. This large and thriving church and you've moved to a new town and how there's so many great things. It wasn't a bad thing either. Like, and when you look at it, you're like, that was the. That was. That was what needed to be done. That was probably the right thing. But how sometimes just moments like that and knowing that core emotion, and now when it comes back, it's like, no, this is. This is just that. It's not that I don't belong here. This is just that feeling coming back again. So what. So Bishop Jakes's daughter. What's the best thing about being Bishop Jake's daughter?

The best thing about being Bishop Jakes daughter is knowing who Bishop Jakes is as the man. Because, you know, people are always like, thank you for sharing your dad with the world. And in a way, it's like, I didn't really share my dad with the world. They got to experience Bishop Jakes. But it's like being a part of this, like, secret society where you've got insider information that no one else knows about, like these ribs that he cooks or what makes him funny and what makes him. I love that he is who he is to the world, but he is still something exclusively to us that no one else could possibly understand.

I think people cannot understand the closeness of your. Of your family unless you've experienced it. And I just. I love your family. I Love your mom and dad. I love your sister Cora. And. And I heard that your brother Dex and his wife came with your dad to Charlotte. And I. I don't know if it was, like, because of COVID or whatever. I didn't get to meet them.

I was like, really?

She was.

Well, that's. They're like that, though. They're. They're very much so like that, where they're, like, in a room and you wouldn't even know that they're there. But, yeah, you know, they just follow. We like to be around.

Well, I just love your family.

I love.

I love how your dad cooks. And I have a. I have a. A secret plan that I haven't asked your dad yet, but I'm going to ask him if he will do, like, if he'll cook a pound cake or something with me on. On my YouTube channel.

I'm sure he will. Oh, for sure.

I'm gonna wait till he's done with the whole book tour and everything.

I'm sure he will, will, and it will be great television.

I just. I love your parents so much. All right, we're running out of time. Here's my last question. One of my favorite lines in the book is towards the end, and you're talking about self care and soul care and the importance of taking care of yourself. And I love when you say, why would these people ask me to feed them them and to lead them when I have not fed or led myself? So give me. Give us the. Give us the rundown. Like, what is the difference between self care and soul care to you? And how do you feed and lead your own self?

I can always tell when my soul is empty because people who ask me to do things that I do every single day starts to get on my nerves. Like when my children like, what's for dinner? I'm like, you think I'm a chef? Like that I have to cook for you every single day. Like, I have an attitude when people expect from me what I have come to set as a standard to expect from me. So, like, so that's when I know that my soul is in need. Soul care versus self care for me. So self care is like, okay, I'm gonna get my nails done after this. I'm gonna go and get my hair done. But most of the time, by the time we get finished doing those things, we look really good. But we're still a little worried about something. We haven't necessarily rested. We're stressed. As a matter of fact, those things can sometimes feel stressful. If you're like me, you wait until the last, last possible moment before you need to do something to your hair, need to do something to your nails. And that is self care running for me. That is self care. That's taking care of myself. But soul care is something that doesn't require an appointment. It doesn't require you to even go out of your house. It requires you to check in with your soul by simply saying, how are you? And giving your soul time to answer and time to respond. And what we end up learning in those moments are like, I'm a little off center, or maybe I'm excited and I haven't fully tapped into that joy and excitement. Because life isn't always hard. There are moments where we are experiencing so much joy, but we're so busy trying to keep it happen that we miss out on the opportunity to say, wow, like, this is really the life of my dreams. And so soul care is how I navigate my life and my responsibilities because it determines whether or not I can take on all of the meetings, whether or not I can cook the dinner, whether or not I can go work out, or if I need to just sit down and meditate. But that's that check in, like 10 minutes, 15 minutes with yourself.

I think it's so interesting how a lot of people will say, well, I don't have time for myself. And it's true. It's 10 or 15 minutes. You have 10 or 15 minutes. You probably spent way more than that scrolling through Facebook. And that's not soul care scrolling through Facebook, but it's actually like the opposite.

Soul abuse. Soul abuse.

It's like poison. Like, it. Maybe it tastes good going down, but then after a while you're like mad at every. You're not only mad at your family, you're mad at every person you went to college with and kindergarten.

Facebook suggested friend is like, hell, because they suggest people, they're like, don't, you know, I don't talk to them. Don't you know, I never want to see them again in my life.

Well, I mean, I just love that part in the book because I think a lot of times we just have this misconception that, that we. That will for both, that that self care is soul care and it's not. And that's why you go and you, you got your hair done or whatever, and you still came home and you were still overwhelmed because everybody needed whatever from you. And. And so just knowing, remembering that, that soul care and those. Just those little pockets of time that you have to take some deep breaths and read a Bible verse or listen to a worship song. And I just. I love how you gave so much practical wisdom in this book. I mean, there is so much practical wisdom. And then you give these little. At the end of every chapter, what's it called? Work on it. Work it out.

Work it out.

Yeah, work it out. And. And where you give people space to have that reflection. And. Yeah, so here's what Sarah says, but what does that mean to me? And so I have never written a book. I've watched my husband write a book, and I know how. How extremely, excruciatingly difficult it is. And so thank you for putting in the time to write such an incredible book. We're going to give another one away to Alana Tapia. She has asked many times. She wants this book really, really bad. So, Alana, we are going to send you one. Holly Friedrich youtubeation church.org Send me an email. I'm going to send one to you. Sarah, I really want to see you in person.

I know we almost saw each other almost. But we didn't. We came really close.

That was your fault.

Well, look at God though, right?

Right. All right, so if people want to get the book, it's everywhere. If they want to, you can go to Amazon, you know, all the places. Barnes and Noble. I watched this thing. My sister sent me this video today and it said, why do moms add an S to every store? And they're like. They were like all these Kroger's, Barnes and Nobles.

No, I cannot believe that Kroger's doesn't have an S at the end of it. I won't. I don't. I don't subscribe. It's got to have an S somewhere at the end.

And Barnes and Nobles as well. But could get the book anywhere. Can also follow you on Instagram. Your Sarah takes Roberts website. Woman Evolved.com podcast is Women Evolved podcast.

Yep.

All Women Evolved. So just Google the Woman Evolve and you will find Sarah. Okay, wait, I was going to ask you one other question. Let's see, what was it?

Time out.

Your podcast and Instagram, YouTube. I just realized when I looked down at my notes.

YouTube, Sarah, Jake's, Roberts. It's all there.

I know what I was going to ask you because lots of people have been asking in the comments, will you do the Woman Evolve conference this year?

I am. We're doing it in Dallas in November. It will be virtual and socially distanced in person for a few people. We're taking the 2020 people who registered and offering them the in person experience. Socially distanced. Depending on how many of them determine whether or not they want to do in person or virtual, it'll determine whether or not we can open up any more in person. But, yeah, we're going to do it. I.

If I can work the dates out, I want to come.

Oh, I'd love that. That'd be amazing.

Okay, my friend. I love you. Thank you. Thank you for your book.

Thank you for what you're doing with your YouTube channel, with your social media, with your recipes, with your ministry, with the book club and the messages. Like, I see you out here, you are not just breaking out of your shell. You are bringing. Bringing all of us along with you. And you're doing such an incredible job. You're teaching us how to be women who live in all of these different worlds and spaces. And it's very effective any way you show up, Holly, you work. And so I thank you for showing up in new spaces because it challenges us to do the same. I'm forever cheering you on. I love you so much.

Thank you. I love you, too. All right, I'll see you soon.

Okay.

All righty.

Bye.

Bye. All right, guys, that was. Sarah, that was amazing. I hope you enjoyed that. If you did, don't forget to like it. Don't forget to leave me a comment. Let me know some other people that maybe you would like for me to have a chat with. And don't forget to subscribe. And also click that little bell so that you can know every time that we go live or post a video, you'll get a little notification. I love all of you so much. Thank you for always showing up and always commenting and joining. And I wish you could give everyone a copy of Sarah's book because it's really great and I want you to get it in your hands. So make sure you go pick up a copy, buy a copy for a friend, and I will see you back here next time.