Lunchtime Live with Sissy Goff | Raising Worry-Free Girls | Holly Furtick

Anxiety in children is at epidemic rates right now, and we're all worried about our kids. We all have anxiety about our kids having anxiety, and we're trying to figure this thing out. So last week, we talked to David Thomas and we talked about his book, which was called Raising Emotionally Strong Boys. Did I say that right? Wasn't that the title? I don't have it with me anymore. We talked to David Thomas this week. It's all about the girls. Now, I don't know. For those of you who have girls out there, let me know in the chat. I want to welcome some of you. Tell me how many girls you have and what their ages are now. I have two boys and one girl. And I don't know if you're like me, but, okay, so here's a story. When I first had. When I had my. My girl, okay, so I had two boys, and then I finally got this girl that I had, you know, been wanting and wanted to have the experience of having a daughter. And I. I'm not so great with babies, so. And a lot of you have heard me share stuff like that before. But, like, my babies, I never had. I had three kids. I never had one baby that like, to sleep in the car. Ever slept for more than 30 minutes in the car, that just chilled in the car seat, slept in the stroller. None of my. My kids were like intense babies. And so I remember. And I wasn't always in the best mood. So I remember when Abby was like a newborn baby and everybody in our church was so excited that we had had a girl, which for those of you who have boys and then a girl or girls and a boy, you know, like, everybody gets so excited about it. And so people would say to me, oh, isn't it just so different having a girl? And I was like, no, they cry and they eat and they cry and they pee and poop and. No, they just. She just has a bow on her head. And I knew it was gonna get different, and it obviously has been different. Abby potty trained herself. Graham and Graham and Elijah were not really into potty training until they were like, three and a half. I mean, there's so many things that are different about boys and girls, but this is my third time having a 12 year old. And I got to say, by the time they get to this, like, preteen age, you really start to see, like, this divide between the differences in boys and girls. And so I was so grateful that, you know, David wrote his book about boys, and Cissy Goff is who we're going to be talking to today. She's written this book called Raising Worry Free Girls and I'm so excited to talk to her about the things that are in this book and I think it's going to be really helpful for you too. So before we welcome her on, I want to welcome some of you. Let's see who's joining us. We've got Laura and she, let's see, where did it go? Laura Chavez, one girl, she's 14. And then we have Deborah, she says one boy, one girl and she lives in Stockholm, Sweden. Vanessa Parker has four girls. Vanessa we we bless you in Jesus name. She's they're her girls are 25, 19, 18 and 12. Rosalind has granddaughters 10, 5, 3 and 2. Carol Snyder is on. She's got one daughter and two stepdaughters. Let's see who else. Rochelle Scoggin says she has an 8 year old girl, Carrie. Carrie who? Hugh maybe. She has three girls, 12, 16 and 23. And Carrie says help, help is on the way.

Carrie.

Okay, help is on the way today. Let's see who else. Cheryl is on with us and she says hello, Pastor Holly. I have a 37 year old daughter who still suffers from anxiety. I love her so much. Hi to Carla from Waxhaw who has a six year old girl. Guys, this discussion is going to be amazing. If you're just joining us, we're going to talk with Sissy Golf. We're going to talk about raising worry free girls. It is lunchtime live here in the East Coast. It is noon and I have already eaten my lunch because I didn't eat breakfast. I was hungry. I had Panera today and so my stomach is full and I am ready to go. I have a long list of questions for Sissy. For those of you who don't know Sissy, she has all these letters after her name but basically she's a child therapist from Nashville. She is an amazing follow on Instagram. If you love this conversation, you're going to want to go follow her. I'll tell you all that at the end. But what you need to know is stay on with me. Ask a question if you have a question. I will try to get to it but I promise you my questions is going to sound kind of funny. My questions are really good. So just hang tight because if I don't get to your question, I probably will by the end of it. But if you have something burning, ask it. I'll try to see it in the comments. But most of all, keep the Comments going, stay with me throughout. And I have a couple of books of sissies that I'm going to give away at the end of our discussion. Okay, are you guys ready? I want to give all of our time to Sissy today. I'm ready to bring her on, so let's welcome Sissy Golf. Let her know in the chat.

Hello.

Hi, Sissy.

Hi, Holly. I'm so excited to get to be with you.

I am so excited to chat with you because, you know, parenting is just funny because just when you think you, you figured something out, the next kid changes.

It's like whack a mole.

It really is. So, like, one boy does this, the other boy does this, and then I introduce a girl into the mix, and it's like a whole new world. And middle school, like, my middle school experience, I thought I was, like, ready for middle school and middle school girls are something.

Oh, yes.

From middle school boys. And I'm so excited to talk to you today. I. I was thinking as I was reading your book and like, processing and thinking about my conversation with David and I, I think, like, overall, I wonder if you agree with this. Like, boys are more reactive and girls are more premeditated.

Oh, that is a great. I've never heard anyone say that. And I totally agree. This is amazing.

This is my experience, especially, like, in. In the school type situation, you know, like, my boys would. Would just get in trouble and, you know, get a call or whatever. Just, like, happens just normally. But with my daughter, she's always, like, anticipating if she's going to get in trouble. Like, do you think I'll get dress coded for this?

Do you think?

You know, like, we went to the Taylor Swift concert in Nashville, actually. It was amazing. And so she missed a day of school and she was like, my teachers are going to be mad at me. And I never, ever heard one of my boys even remotely wonder if their teachers are going to be mad at them on the front end now. Like, afterwards, they were like, yeah, my teacher was pretty mad at me, but it's just. It's like a whole new world. And I know that all of us are, are really worried about, about our kids and specifically about our girls because, you know, we all have friends. I have so many moms that I talk to, and I'm hearing stories like, you know, my child is, is having stomach problems. My child is calling me from school saying that she's having a panic attack. My. My daughter, you know, doesn't want to spend the night. My daughter doesn't want to get out of the car. Like, all these things. Things.

And.

And so as I'm entering into this whole new, like, realm of teenage girls, me and like, every other mom alongside of me is going, we need help. Like, help me make sure that my daughter doesn't become one of these teenage girls that is struggling with crippling anxiety. So you're here with us today.

Well, I'm so honored to be with you here. And I think it's such an important conversation, because you're right, the statistics are worse than they've ever been before in terms of what we're seeing in girls. And so I'm really grateful to get to talk about this.

All right, so the first thing I want to ask you is something interesting that you say in the book. You say anxiety is an epidemic and a trend.

Yes.

Give us a little bit about that. What do you mean by that?

Yes, I'm glad you brought that up. Yes. From an epidemic standpoint, we are now looking at 1 in 4 kids dealing with anxiety. We girls are twice as likely to deal with it as boys, but boys actually are taken in for help more, which we can talk about why in just a minute. And so, I mean, and with adolescents, it's one in three, so it really is an epidemic. And. And part of that is the pandemic. I mean, there are so many things we can talk about that are causing it, but because, genuinely, those rates are rising. What I'm hearing kids say are things like, if you sat at the lunch table, you were stressed, no one would listen to you. They're using these really big words now. And girls in particular, I think they don't feel like in some ways, their emotions are valid if they don't have a diagnosis. Wow. And so they're using words like depression, anxiety, ptsd, and. And the hard thing. I talked about this with a group of high school girls not long ago, and one of the girls, actually, I started with a question. I said, how do y' all feel like girls are defining themselves nowadays? And, you know, they said all the things you can imagine, who your friends are, your grades, activities, you're involved in, things like that. And one girl said, I think we're defining ourselves by mental health issues. And she said, and the danger of that is, for one thing, it skews us toward the negative. It makes us think about the negative more than the positive. And she said, the other thing is, it takes the language away for people who really are struggling with it because it's becoming too common. I know a senior in high School said that I was so blown away that she had that kind of wisdom. But, but I think that's true. And it's become, you know, they're all saying, and girls will say everyone has anxiety today and a lot of them do, but they're certainly ones who don't.

And they use these big words like I'm having a panic attack. And they, they, they may be, or they may not even know what that, what that even means.

Oh yes.

And it's, it's like I don't as a, as a mom and I, and I guess this is like one of the biggest things that I'm looking to you for is how do I know if my daughter is attention seeking, hormonal or experiencing like normal teenage girl woes or if she's actually dealing with something more serious?

Yes. I love that you're bringing that up because I think it is so hard to know and forever if I had pulled out the dsm, which is the diagnostic manual that therapists used to diagnose kids. We don't@daystar on purpose, but if I pulled that out and I read to you what depression looks like, like, or even sometimes even bipolar depression, adolescents just developmentally mimics so much of that.

Right.

Just because we know they're so up and down. I had a mom who told me that her 15 year old daughter said, mom, I think I'm bipolar. I just feel like I'm all over the place emotionally. And her mom said, oh honey, there's no way you're bipolar. You're never that happy. But they're just up and down so much. And so, so I do think a lot of it is hard to tell. And, and what we would say typically is, you know, pay attention to. Does it dissipate? Does it feel like they're anxious all the time, they're sad in all aspects of their life from at home because a lot of kids are going to let those things come out at home, but then we're not going to see them when they're with their friends, especially when they're adolescents. And so if it feels like it's pervasive across home school friends, that's when we want to pay attention or when we help them find their way to tools, which we can talk about some tools today. When we help them find their way to tools and it feels like the tools don't work, I think certainly that's time we want to pay attention to or as we would all know, if kids are, even if it's from an attention Seeking standpoint is our hunch. If they're using any kind of language about wanting to hurt themselves, I think at that point we don't want to play the game of trying to figure out what it is, and we just want to take them to get to see somebody.

Always want to take that same seriously.

Right.

So what, what can I. What do I do as a mom that actually might be making my daughter more anxious?

Ooh, good question. So, I mean, I would say, hands down, at this point in counseling kids, I think the most important thing we can do is manage our own stuff, deal with our own anxiety. To the degree that I have a book coming out in August, I need to get your information and send you a copy. Not that you need it, Holly, but one, I have a book coming out in August called the Worry Free Parent, because I'm just sitting with so many parents who are talking about their kids anxiety. And then when I say, tell me about your family history, they either say, well, maybe I'm anxious, I'm not really sure, or they'll say, well, I've got some anxiety myself, but I'm having to pour all my resources into her right now. And so I think we have got to start with ourselves and do the work ourselves before we ever expect the kids we love to do their own work.

I love it so much because, you know, I, I do. I've done a marriage Bible study. I have never, ever even attempted or thought about doing a parenting one because I'm like, hey, my best parenting advice is, look, it's all a crapshoot.

None of us know what we're doing.

And just hang in there like that. Yes, I have, I've added one, one, one thing to my repertoire of parenting advice, really, since reading your book and David's and hearing both of you say over and over again, the best thing you can do is work on yourself and model what it looks like to experience anxiety and how you handle that. And in my marriage Bible study, I always tell the women, when I change me, I change us. So the most powerful thing I can do for my marriage is to work on myself. And I never realized until recently that really the most powerful thing I can do for my kids is work on myself. And whether that's just my relationship with God and getting wisdom from him and how to handle certain situations or dealing with, like, my own anxiety. And so it just really, like, it really means a lot to me. I think it's, it's hopeful because a lot of times when you read a parenting book, you're like, I'm screwing my kids up. I'm not doing any of this, and I'm a terrible mom. But when you read one piece of advice that says, best thing you can do for your kids anxiety is to manage your own, it's like, oh, well, I guess I can do that. So I love it. It's really so helpful, I feel like, for people. So. All right, well.

And I love that you're saying that as a mom, because I think the most intuitive thing feels like taking care of your kids just because of who you are as a person who's nurturing and caretaking and that's everything you're thinking about. And so it feels so counterintuitive to stop and do that. So I love that you're saying that and giving parents permission because it's just so important.

So, okay, so if the best thing that I can do is model what it looks like to handle anxiety and all that. But then you also say in the book that being a non anxious presence in her life is important. So how do you balance, like, is there ever, is there a line that you can cross by letting your child into your life too much? Does that make sense? Because if I'm supposed to model, you know, being calm, sometimes that means like being calm, even appearing calm even though I'm anxious. But then other times it means, like saying, I'm feeling anxious right now, so I'm, you know, gonna take a deep breath. Just give me a second. So, like, do you have anything of how we would, how to balance that?

Yes. Yes. And I think that's such a, an important line that's really thin because they do need to hear. I mean, you're exactly right. I love that I'm feeling anxious right now, so I'm going to take a deep breath or where we're sharing our feelings, but we're not processing our feelings.

Okay. I like that.

So saying a little bit, saying what we're doing to help, but not. And I'm so anxious because I didn't realize I'd missed this and now I've got to do that. And I didn't even think about the fact that this was coming and, you know, where we're really starting to process what's happening emotionally, that's too much for them. And, and I think, especially when we're talking about girls, I think one thing that happens is because girls are so intuitive that if we start to process our feelings in front of them, they stop processing theirs. Okay. Because there's not enough room or because they feel like they have to rise up and take care of us.

Yeah.

And so I think that's where the line. And then girls, I think, feel too strong and. And girls who feel stronger than their parents end up feeling more insecure.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. And.

And so then, then it's so tricky though, because when you have a teenage daughter, there's this perception that she's supposed to be my. My little bestie. Right. And so, you know, like I. What I'm hearing you saying is she's not.

Yeah, no, she is. Not at all. Which is hard because I think culturally there's more pressure than there's ever been for that to be the case. And, and part of the journey of daughters is they've got to individuate. They've got to become their own people. And David and I do this raising boys and girls seminar, parenting seminar that we love to do, and we talk about who kids are at different stages and what they need and. And in the middle school stage, so early adolescence. I talk about how girls, all their lives up until that point have really defined themselves by their relationship with their moms in so many ways. And they see themselves against this backdrop of who their moms are. And so to. To become their own person, it's like a pendulum. And they're going to have to kick off of their moms the hardest to swing out and to become their own people. And. And everything we know about girls is that when something goes wrong in a girl's world, she blames herself. Okay. And as a mom, you're a grown up little girl. And so when she does that, the most natural thing is going to be to say, how did I fail her? What did I do wrong? And I always say to moms, instead, I want you to say, told me this was supposed to happen. She really has to do it to become her own person. And it is going to hurt. It's going to be really hard, but she is going to swing back. And I think my favorite response ever, I. Sometimes when we do parenting seminars locally, we'll take kids to do Q and A.

Okay.

I was speaking to a group of seventh grade moms, which I think is definitely the hardest juncture in a girl's life and maybe a mom's life when she's in seventh grade. And so I took seniors in high school because I thought, I want these moms to have a little bit of hope. And so one of the moms said, tell me your favorite thing your mom ever did when you were in seventh grade to These girls. And this one girl said, you know, when I was in seventh grade, my mom and I would fight a lot. And she said every time we would get into a fight, I would say to my mom, why do you always have to be the mom? Why can't you just be my friend? And she said, every time I said that, my mom had the same response. And she said to me, there will be a day that you and I will be friends, but it is not today. And I could actually care less how you feel about me right now. Which we know wasn't true, right? But that was the strength she was bringing to that moment. And her daughter said, every time my mom said that, I thought, I can't wait. And then this mom in the room said, did you tell your mom that? And she said, of course not. But I think that's what that looks like. You know, they are giving you in that time period the worst versions of themselves. And so when we can be strong and take it and say. And not to say we don't give them consequences, because certainly sometimes we do. But I'm bigger than you are, and I'm stronger than you are, and I don't have to be your best friend in this moment. I think it creates a security for them that they need desperately at that age.

And it's so hard because. Because we're so insecure as moms.

And I want.

And all, I mean, like, all any mom wants is for their child to be happy. And I think it's so hard in the moment to, you know, like, you talk about all these things of, like, helping your daughter find ownership that makes them really mad. Like, when I'm not going to do. Do it for you, they. They're going to be angry at me. And I don't. I don't want my kids to be angry at me. But like you're saying, like, I'm trying to remind myself I'm playing the long game here, you know? And so in the moment, maybe she's not going to like me, but hopefully down the road one day she will.

Yes. And anxious kids, especially need ownership. And at the same time, they're some of the loudest, most manipulative push against having to do all the things. And so one of the things, when I was doing my research, I came across something like this. And so I talked about in the book, what are two things you're doing for your kids right now that they can do for themselves, and what are two things you're doing for them that they can almost do for themselves.

Wow.

And that we need to stop all four of those things to give them an opportunity to develop that not only ownership, but resilience and confidence. And confidence, competence that are going to help ward off anxiety.

So I really love that you use the word manipulate, because I actually wrote that down as one of my questions. How do I know if I'm being manipulated or like, that she's depending on me, like, to do things for her? Like, how do you know, like, when, when she's manipulating me or, and, or when it's actually a serious situation and I'm sorry, the dog's loud. Oh, he wants, he wants to go outside, if anybody. He's a loud, grunty dog, too. He's a Boston terrier, so he snorts and snores all the time. So anyway, if you hear weird noises, it's my.

Well, my dog can wave at your dog because she's loud, too. So they're similar. You know, I, I, I honestly, I would say as a mom, you'll know. I don't. I think in 30 years of counseling girls, one of the things I have, one of probably the top three things I've been struck by the most is how deeply gifted moms are in the intuitive space and knowing what your kids are doing and knowing what they need. And so I think if you have something rise up in you that says, huh, this feels a little manipulative, or she is acting completely incapable in this moment, and I saw her handling herself fine three minutes ago. Trust that. Just go with that. And, and I think if in those moments, it is still so important that we have empathy, because if we say, I can tell you're manipulating me right now, then I think sometimes they'll just get bigger and more dramatic. But to say, wow, yeah, that looks really hard, or that sounds like it's going to be a hard one for you, I so believe you're capable. And then run and get away from her and let her do it.

So what you're saying is trust your gut. Like, gut is a real thing.

Yes.

Sometimes we don't give it enough credit.

It is a hugely real thing.

All right, so one of the other things that you talk about is the whole idea of how a situation is being perceived. And you talk about how your daughter can get in the car and be like, it was the worst day ever. And how, how do I use my mom gut to really be like, okay, I don't think it was the worst day ever to see that.

Yes. Because I think that's part of that Them using this really big language. And. And I'm going to say one thing I want you to do with her, but I want to start with one thing that we need to do with ourselves. I met with a mom not long ago, Holly, of a seventh GR girl, and we were talking and she said, well, I just have become convinced that my daughter has rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Right. I tried to not make the same face that you just made. I wanted to because I thought, well, I've never heard of that in all these years. And are you kidding me? In seventh grade, every single one of us has rejection sensitivity dysphoria. You know, that's just real. But I think we've got to be really careful that we're not going. If we're thinking about a 1 to 10 scale, that we're not going to 10 all the time ourselves. And we're not using all that big diagnostic language.

That's so good.

I even feel a little fearful that we're overusing the word trauma right now. I mean, trauma is certainly important to talk about and process. I mean, of course, I think that as a therapist, but I think we can easily call everything that. And so I just. I think we've got to be careful, Number one, number two with them. What I've started doing with girls in my office a lot is talking about a 1 to 10 skills scale. And then for kids who tend to go big with the drama, you know, everything's the worst day they've ever had, everything's horrible to say to them, tell me what a 10 would be on your scale. And whether that's an anxiety scale, whether it's a sadness scale. And so, you know, losing my mom or dad or having to do the thing that I'm most scared to do, whatever that is. And then when they get in the car after school and say, this was the worst I've ever experienced in my whole life as a student, to say, okay, that sounds really hard, because again, we always want to start with empathy so they feel a little more validated. That sounds so hard. That sounds like a tough day. What number do you think it was on your scale? And I have so many girls who will, of course, grunt at me. They sound like Boston terriers. Okay, you're right. It felt like a 10, but I guess it was a 6 or I guess it was a 4. And it automatically helps them have a little bit more of a sense of perspective. I've started calling it a drama monitor in my office because there's so much drama all the time.

But I love it.

I love.

And I love the idea of, like, having this open conversation with my daughter so that I have language for in the heat of the moment. Because if. If she's like, you know, think she's out of 10. And I try to introduce the drama momenter to her. She's. She's going to be like, no, mom, it was a 10. You know, like, they're going to ground. But I just. That's what I love about this book is it is so, so full of so many little handles and things that you can do and conversations that you can have. And. And one of my favorite ones that you talk about is breathing. And breathing is a big thing right now. I'm, you know, I. Everybody's talking about breathing. I had a friend, a staff member say to me one time, she was like, you know, when you get stressed that you take a really deep breath and breathe out. And I always know that you're stressed when you go.

That'S so funny. So you do it automatically, I guess.

So. My daughter. So my daughter Abby was actually, like, in the car while I was listening to the book. And I, you know, and I told her, I was like, I'm listening to this book because I feel like it's going to help me. And in. In my things. And a lot of the things that she's saying, I was like. And she's talking about this thing called square breathing. And so we were listening to that part where you were talking about it and how you said that you can, like, draw a flower or whatever. And she came home a couple days later. She was like, mom, I did that breathing thing. So then a couple weeks later, my husband was talking to her, and. And she said that one of her teachers was teaching them to, like, trace your. Your finger as you breathe. So you're like, deep breath up and then breath out as you go down.

And.

And I thought this was so cool. My husband, he. He's all into, like, breathing and, And. And mindfulness and, And. And having some confessions that you say. And he was like, oh, I've been working on a prayer of. Of using my fingers. And now he. He was like, he. They, like, him and Abby, they made up this whole thing where you, like, take a deep breath in and every time you breathe out, you're tracing your fingers and you're thinking of something that you're grateful for. And. And so it's all started, like, this whole progression of having these open conversations with our kids. So tell. Give us some breathing techniques. Because those are mine, but mine are. I don't really, you know, I just do it. Tell us some things that you tell kids, like how do you breathe? When do you breathe? How do you know when to do it? How do you do it without anybody noticing?

Yes, I. I love that they did that. That's so cool. And what a neat thing for them to get to do together as a father and daughter. And. And then for him to use. I'm sure that felt so confidence boosting for her.

Yeah, he made a whole YouTube video. It's on YouTube, where he's, like, tracing his fingers and stuff is pretty cool.

So that's so cool. Yes. Well, so if. If we were to back up for a second and just talk about the science behind breathing, because I didn't know this until I started studying, and I think it's so interesting that, you know, when we. When you and I are sitting here having this conversation with. We have blood flowing all throughout our brains, including the prefrontal cortex, which helps us think rationally and manage our emotions. When we get really anxious, the blood vessels in our brain constrict, and it shifts that blood flow back to the amygdala that we know is the fight or flight part of our brain. Now, I've never heard this from a scientific standpoint, but I have this theory that there's something that takes place in families that's a little bit like if you lived in a dorm or sorority house in college and, you know, when you started your period and all of a sudden everyone on your hall was having their period. I think amygdalas do the same thing. I think in a family, if my amygdala gets tripped, then somebody else is going to. That's right next to me. So then none of us are rational. And so I always feel like starting with breathing is really important. And so the way that I do it with kids is I have them put their hand on their leg and draw a square, because the. The drawing of the line on their leg is a sensory. It's sensory input, which is grounding in the moment for anxiety. So what they would do is put their hand on their leg and they're going to draw a slow square, and with each line, they're going to breathe a different direction. So, and. And I talk about, in the book that I have girls who say, can I draw a flower? Can I draw a star? Which is fine, whatever they want to draw. But I love the drawing on their legs. So basically, we would breathe in for like, four seconds. So in, pause in the corner. Out, pause in the corner. I'm doing it too fast, but in, pause in the corner. Out, pause in the corner again. And if we do that for 20 seconds, it starts the process of resetting the amygdala, getting us back into our thinking mind. And so I love the square breathing too, because kids can do it sitting at a desk. If they're about to have to stand up and give a speech, they can draw the square on their leg. I do it sometimes when I get really nervous, when I'm about to walk out and do something. I have been really involved, which has been a huge privilege and really heartbreaking with the Covenant situation and the shooting in Nashville. And I ended up, of all crazy things on Instagram, Live with Katie Couric.

Wow.

And I was a wreck. I mean, a total wreck. She texted me, she got my phone number. I mean, the whole thing, I was like, I don't know what is happening? I don't know. And I had been at the Reunification center all day, so I just was not my best self. And I was. I couldn't get the stupid technology to work. And I was so nervous. And I sat here in the same space I'm in with you, drawing a square on my leg over and over. Like, I've got to get to my thinking, rational mind. And it's just so helpful and grounding in that moment. Wow. So I love to start with that.

I love the. Just the idea of teaching it to myself, practicing it with myself, and then talking about it with my kids. Because it, like, it brings the whole thing. It brings it all together. Right? I gotta figure out, I gotta do square breathing first, and then I can teach it to my. My kids. And. And I think that's like the whole thing about modeling, right? It's not. It's not like vomiting, emotionally vomiting on my kid when I'm having a difficult time. It's actually letting them see. No, I do these things too. It's normal to feel this way. But you. But you can. You can get in control of your mind. Yes. So many, so many wonderful, wonderful things that I love. All right, let me see, what else do I have on here? Okay. I know we could have a whole hour long conversation about this. So give me like your. Your quick take on social media. Because I think specifically with girls, we have Pinterest, we have YouTube day in the life, we have YouTube makeup tutorials, we have Instagram, we have, you know, I have not, did not allow my daughter to have Instagram, but somehow she Talked me into be real, telling me like, oh, it's not like social media. And now I'm like, I should have never let her have that. And then she has YouTube and, and, and because how are you going to keep them from everything?

Right?

So obviously like we cannot keep our kids. You can't just, unless you're gonna be that family who really has a zero tolerance policy where I'm not that family. So give me some like quick tip pointers on what to do with how, how do I handle this?

Well, I, I mean probably two big picture. Well, let me give three big picture pointers. One is you want a parenting community about all those things. So decide together when you're going to let them have each device and then platform when you get to that point. Two, I would say you want to community with other like minded parents. Parents. Yes, exactly. Thank you for clarifying that too. I think you want to really let the rope out gradually with technology. Because the bottom line is, I mean I definitely talk to parents who say we're not going to be that family. It is how they communicate and it's their world.

Right.

And I taught a parenting seminar years ago. Sometimes I'll do an hour long seminar on technology, which is awful. Every parent just looks stricken and panicked the whole time. And I did this whole thing and try to be so gentle with it. But to say we're going to let the rope out gradually so when they mess up, we can pull it back in. And this man in the back of the room, I could tell I was just, everything I was saying was flying all over him and there's a Q and A. And he asked for the microphone and he stood up and he said, I don't have a question, I have a statement. And he said, technology is not a child's God given right. And he said, when we were driving my son to his high school graduation was the first time I let him send a photo on a phone. And the first time I let him get on the Internet on his phone. And then he said, if your child is on the Internet, go home. And I mean, Holly, he was screaming. He said, shut it down. And then he said it again even louder. I didn't know what to do. I just said, let me pray for us. And I sent them all out. But my first thought was that poor kid went from zero freedom May of senior year to August living in a dorm somewhere and he could get into anything he wanted. I mean, we want to teach them to use technology responsibly. So let the rope out, start small, let the rope out, pull it right back in when they mess up. And then my last big picture idea before I want to address something specifically is I always say to parents, you don't want to be the first to let them have every technological advancement because they're going to be perceived as wild or fast or cutting edge or whatever it is. But you also don't want to be the last because you're teaching them responsible technologies. So be the next to last.

Okay?

Literally, like, pay attention to the kids in your child's class, the kids they're around. If it feels like, okay, pretty much everyone they know is on Instagram or starting with Pinterest, that might be the most benign of all of them. Then Instagram, you know, whatever order you want to go on YouTube, and then at that point, be the next to last and jump in. Now, here's the specific thing I would say, because I feel really concerned about this right now with girls, and that is what I'm experiencing on a daily basis in my office is that right now a girl's primary source for mental health information is TikTok.

Okay?

It's where they're all going to find out. It's part of, I think. I mean, five years ago, I felt like girls were googling the diagnostic criteria for depression and coming in and telling me that's what they were experiencing. So I would say, yes, you have depression now. It's all on TikTok. And so they're coming in, listing these things. They're learning to try to get someone to diagnose them, validate what they're feeling. And there is something that has been happening in the last year that I think is. Is incredibly significant and we've got to pay attention to, and that is there has been this increase in girls who are displaying tic disorder, which, you know, tic disorder is if I make some repetitive kind of involuntary movement or sound.

Yeah.

And we're seeing that skyrocket in America with girls. And so I. What always happens for me when I'm counseling kids and I hear something more and more and more as I go home and Google it, of course it becomes my source. But there is a study out of Harvard that basically could track. This is going to sound nuts. It could track that there are influencers in different parts of the country who have tic disorder that are on TikTok, showing their tics to raise awareness for tic disorders. And tic disorders are a psychogenic illness. And so if I'm sitting with you and I Tic enough, you're going to start to have the same tick. So they could track where these influencers. Influencers were popular. More girls were showing tic disorders in those parts of the country because they were watching influencers do this. Is that crazy?

Yes.

So it's just not helpful. I mean, I think I, I really don't think good things right now are coming from tick tock. So I would say let that be the last to jump on board with right now. And let me give one more tip. This is one of my favorite things I've ever heard a mom say she was giving her daughter Instagram. She said, I'm a nervous wreck about it. And so what I did is I set up her Instagram account and I started watching every single puppy video I could find. And she said I set her algorithm that way. Isn't that brilliant? I loved it. So there's just a side tip you can have if you're getting on, on social media with your kids.

My Instagram algorithm is filled with Boston terriers.

That's so fun. I have a lot of dogs on mine too.

Oh man. Okay. So, yeah, I don't like, it's so hard because I also find that kids are smarter than us, right? So especially when it comes to technology. And I have heard of friends who, you know, there was a family that I knew of and they wouldn't allow their kids to have phones and came to find out that their, their son had bought an old iPhone from a friend at school. School and had it on wi fi under his pillow. So I mean there's that, there's. And like for anybody out there that thinks that they have, you know, all these little apps that you can buy. Like I've had, have, I currently use Disney Circle and I've also experimented with the Bark app. But I found actually like with all three of my kids, they know how to turn it off. And there's, I mean you can do all these things and put all these things, but if, if, if their heart is not honest, then that's the problem, you know. And so it's, it's so scary though because there's, so there's, they're developing their integrity, they're developing their trust and just like having to have these conversations. I, I mean, I, I really, it's so hard because like you said, I don't want my kid to be the only one who doesn't, you know, xyz. But I also don't. Like, my daughter spends so much time just texting friends, she's in like a hundred group chats and they go back and forth with their, you know, emojis and like all, I mean, it's like, it's, I, I, she's, they're simply texting. And so part of me is like, this is too much like you shouldn't have people with you 247 in your head.

Right.

But then on the other side of me, I'm like, well, when I was 12, I was, you know, I had friends who had a phone in their room in their own phone line, you know, so it's so hard to know, like, am I doing this right? Am I messing them up? Like, I don't know. I just, and I heard you talking about how the social media apps for girls in particular, it gives them like a skewed perception of who they should be.

Yes.

And that's scary too. So I have, even if you have a time limit, but they're watching makeup tutorials all the time, you know, like, I don't know, I'm, I think I did, I didn't mean to turn this into my own personal therapy set.

No, but you're right, it's so overwhelming. And we don't even have longitudinal studies where we understand how this impacts kids over time. And so. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it feels like a guessing game. And that's where, you know, I'm so grateful for you and that you have this YouTube channel and that you're putting good information out. And I think we've got to have voices we trust and we've got to trust our own gut too. You know, back circling back to that.

Yeah. Yeah. Because every kid is different too.

Every kid is different. Right.

And makeup tutorials may be fine for one girl and really harmful for another. And great. You know, I, I think I tell myself that I just, the most important thing is that I know what, what my kids are doing on social media, what they're looking at, what their apps are, you know, what their preferred, you know, Snapchat or Tick Tock or whatever. At least I can start there. Right? So I'm not completely blindsided.

Yes.

Okay. I know I could talk to you about social media for forever. Here's another thing I want to ask you and you touch on this in the book. So I feel I'm going to try not to get on like a huge soapbox, but I feel so much frustration over kids activities right now and how if I don't put my child in not only in softball, but two softball teams, we have to be in the travel and the travel team. If I don't do that, then they'll be behind. But if I do do that, I could be, as you say, like you say in the book, over scheduling creates anxiety. And then you say, and this is probably my favorite quote in the book, which is actually a little bit isolated, but it just is where I am is. You said you are the keeper of the family schedule. So tell me, like, what are you seeing? How, how does over scheduling create anxiety in our kids and what are we supposed to do about it? Because it's like, it's like a cultural norm now for your child to be over scheduled.

So I, oh, I'm so glad that's your soapbox. I'd like to get up there with you. I feel that way about extracurriculars. I also feel that way about academics. I think it's too much right now. I wish I could lobby the educational. I don't even know who you go to to say kindergarten should not be the new 10th grade. And it is, you know, and I was sitting with a girl that I was counseling yesterday who dances four days a week, you know, and she was saying she gets home literally at 9:30 and then starts her schoolwork. And I thought we don't even do that. Those of us with full time jobs, our life is not like that. It's just not fair. And so I'm totally with you. And, and I think living in this age of anxiety with kids and I'm seeing more perfectionism in girls than ever before. So it's not even just that their hours are full, it's that their brain space is full because they have to be perfect in every endeavor, they're involved in every activity, every, you know, sport, all the things. And so I mean, that's funny that you said that. I put up a post about that Monday because I feel so strongly about it right now because May is nuts for all of us and, and I feel like it's just too much on them. And so I do think to some degree as a parent, you sometimes are going to have to be the bad guy and say, no, yeah, we're doing one sport a season, or we're doing, you know, one, whatever, two activities a week or that you figure out together, like where do you feel comfortable? And that may not be where I land, but I want your input. And then we're going to draw a line and say this is too much. And we all need at least one night where we're all sitting at the dinner table looking at each other, that no one's rushing off to a lesson or a sport or an activity somewhere. We just. We've got to slow down. I think it's concerning even that kids. I don't think kids know how to regulate themselves. I don't think they know what to do with boredom. And they need to. I mean, all of that is so important. So, yeah, I'm with you, Holly. I can't. I don't think I could be strong enough about how we need to slow down culturally. Yeah.

And I think my, My. I don't want to take any credit because my husband has been the one that has really driven the whole, like, one sport per season. And, And I, I. I'm pretty sure. And I think my middle son, I. I think he'd be okay with me saying this out there in YouTube, but I feel pretty sure that my son will always think that he could have been, you know, a star in X sport if we had let him do two teams or three teams or whatever, you know, And I just. I had to come to a place where, you know, I saw this one.

This.

I was watching a family from afar that, you know, we weren't super close with. And I started adding up in my head, like, how much money they had spent on their child's sport from not just the gear, the team, but the travel, the hotels, the plane, flights. And their child did end up getting a college scholarship for the sport. But I started adding it up, and I was like, you totally could have paid for your child's college if you had saved all the money that you spent on their sport. And, like, even telling myself things like that, like, I'm not saving money. I'm not trying to. My goal is not for my kid to have a college scholarship, but I do want them to have a sport. I do want them to fit in. I do want them to have.

I.

Especially with my boys, I think have your son having a sport. Sport is, Is so. Is so important. And, And.

And.

Or playing one as a child, like, having that outside all of that, but, like, I also can't.

I.

We kind of as a family, had to be like, I'm sorry, but we're not doing that. And, and with. And actually with. With two of our three kids, we've had to be like, this sport is over. And they had to come to the conclusion. We had to come to the conclusion because we were not willing to do what everybody else was doing. But it. It's so hard. And in the moment, they feel. They feel behind, but I Think what I loved about your. Because let me say it this way, for, for me, I felt like it was something I was doing for my family. But I never saw it until I read your book as something that I was doing for my child. Because even though they're the ones that wants to be on the second, the second team and you know, the rec team, the school team and the travel team and they, they're mad at you but realizing that like I'm doing this for you because there's all these studies that say over scheduling creates anxiety and I'm trying to do what's best for you and it's just one of those parenting moments. But it's so hard. It's. To me, it's as hard as standing your ground with social media right now. And, and I just, I just loved how you address that in the book because I just feel like we all know social media is bad, but it's like this going to sound kind of harsh, but it's like we, we worship our children and so we, we love nothing more. I mean there is no thrill like watching your child hit an in park home run. Right? There's, there's nothing like that. And I think we get so addicted as parents to that experience and we don't realize that we're not, we're not doing our family a service. We're not helping our family, not helping our kids. We're. And I don't know.

Anyway, thank you. Help us. Thank you for that. No, you said it. That was beautiful. I completely agree.

Oh man. I have so many, I still have so many things that I want to ask you.

How, how do we have a part two?

We, we should, we should do this again and, and keep going. And I would love to talk about your book that you have coming out about. What did you call it? Worry free parents?

The Worry Free Parent. Yeah, it's just helping kind of find the tools yourself. Yes, we need it.

Tell me, when do I know that it's time to seek professional help?

So I, the reason I wrote Raising Worry Free Girls, I have a book for elementary age girls got Braver, Stronger, smarter. One for teenage girls called Brave is to say so much of what we do in counseling are practical things that you can try and do at home. So try these at home and if it feels like you've got some of these tools and it's not moving the needle and at that point I would say it's time to go ahead and seek help. But I also would say Holly, which I think you would probably say this too. I mean, with mental health being a crisis among youth today, if we go back to trusting your gut and if as a parent you feel like, you know what? I think it's time, I just don't feel right in my spirit about where she is, where he is in either space. I mean, I think go ahead and do it. My favorite story ever was a mom who said to me, my daughter was not happy that I was bringing her in. And she said, and she said, why, why do I have to go? I'm fine. When she wasn't really. But this mom said, you know, my job as your mother is to build your team. And we have people on your academic team who are your teachers. We have people on your physical team who are your doctors. Of course, I would have people on your emotional team. And we're not going to go see them all the time, but you're going to have a counselor that you know, at any point you can say, mom, I need to go talk to Sissy, or I need to go talk to whoever it is. And I think that's just such a beautiful way to really validate and normalize the fact that we do all need people who we can talk to here cheering us on.

What does a parent do who feels in their gut, my child, it's time. We need to seek professional help. But the child is not on board. And they're stubborn or, you know, won't talk to the, to the counselor. What, what, what does a parent do then?

Well, I mean, I would say get them to the place, get them to the office, wherever it is. Every counselor who works with kids has made 20 trips to a car to coax a child out who does not want to be there. I mean, I can't even tell you how many times I have done that over the years. And that's our job. Our job is to bring them around. You just get them to us. And a good counselor who works with kids, you know, is going to have a kid friendly space. Maybe they have dogs that are on staff. Hopefully, you know, there are different things we do, kind of tricks we have that bring kids around. So just try and get them there and then let us do the rest.

What do you say to people who ask you? Because I know you travel and speak all the time all over the country. What do you say when somebody's like, how do I find the right counselor for my kid? Because I bet you have a lot of people be like, can you counsel my daughter? And they live in, like, California.

Right, Right. So, I mean, I would say the biggest piece of it would be go meet with the person themselves, yourself, like, look them up, read about them, all of that stuff. But, but basically, I mean, I think the combination you need for a counselor with kids is you want somebody who is really warm and, and kind and is going to connect, but also who can challenge them. Yeah. Because kids aren't sometimes ready to do the work. And so we got to do a lot of building relationship, and then we've got to help push them because, you know, if we go to counseling, we say, this is what I need to work on, help, and that's not where they are. And so I think you sitting with the person, getting a feel for what they're like is really probably the most important component of it.

And do you think it's okay to just start with the, with the Google search and then go in and meet the person?

No, I'm glad you asked that. I, I think you can, but I would recommend instead calling your pediatrician, calling the school, checking with your church, those three sources, because they're going to have vetted some people, and especially if you have a name in all the places, then that's the name I would pursue first.

Gotcha.

Okay. Thank you for asking that, Holly. That's good.

I, I, I really, I'm so appreciative of you not only writing this book, but coming on and having this conversation, because I feel like we need it, we need that. We need to be able to talk about it in a healthy way. We need to have some handles. And that's all in this book and in this conversation. And, and, you know, we talk about all of the difficulties of technology and all the terrible things about technology, but here I am in Charlotte and you're in Nashville, and we're having a conversation, so, an important conversation. And so I'm just, I'm so grateful for you and, and the work that you're doing and, and Daystar and, and your, the travel and everything. So just thank you so much for the work and just keep it up and keep the books coming and, and tell everybody how they can follow you, because I know everybody watching wants to know more.

Holly, you're so kind. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Thank you for the work and the light you are in this world. I'm so glad to know you now and be friends from technology. So raisingboysandgirls.com is our website. We have a podcast called Raising Boys and Girls and.

Oh, I love your podcast.

Thank you.

I love it. I listened to the one, I said this last week. Are my kids on track? And I love that because you can actually on the whatever podcast app I was using, I think I used the Apple one. You can pick the ones they're like labeled, you know, age 9 to 12 or whatever. And so I was able to just jump straight to the ones that pertain to me. And I, I, I love your podcast, so.

Oh, thank you.

Raisingboys and girls.com Raising boys and girls podcast.

Yes. And then on Instagram I'm try to be really active and helpful on my own golf. And then we have an account called Raising Boys and Girls that David and I share.

I, I made sure I followed both of them today. I didn't even know you guys had Raising Boys and Girls. I don't know why. Mostly because I look at Boston Terriers on Instagram but this morning I was like, I gotta make sure I follow them because I just, I love all, all the stuff you guys put out. I just, you're doing an incredible need work. So thank you and thank you. Thank you for joining us today.

I'm delighted and honored too.

All right, love it. We'll see you.

Thank you. Sounds great. Bye.

All right guys, we got to give away some books. I really hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. I, I feel like I talk too much, but I get so passionate about some of these things and was just so excited to hear Sissy's wisdom and preached it to some of you because I've been preaching it to myself for the last two weeks. So got to get it out. Anyway, let's give away this book Raising Worry free Girls. Let's see who are we going to give it to. Laura Chavez, you have been on with us the whole time. Laura, thanks for joining us. All I need you to do. Hold on, let me look at my instructions. I always forget. You think I would know this by now. Email Holly for to YouTube Holly Furtick YouTube@elevationchurch.org I can't see my notes. Holly Furtive YouTube@elevationchurch.rog and Laura, we're going to send it to you.

Yay.

Laura says enjoyed it 100 and then we're also going to send this to Stephanie Gill. Ooh, I wonder if Stephanie is related to Vince Gill and Amy. Amy. Amy Grant. Stephanie, thanks for joining us. Oh, there she is. Stephanie says loved this conversation. Stephanie, I'm so glad that you were a part. Holly Furtick YouTube@elevationchurch.org Send us your info and we're going to send you one of these guys. You can get a copy of this book at your local bookstore at obviously Amazon. I listen to it on Audible. Always a great idea to listen to it while you're in your car doing dishes. All those wonderful things. And I hope you enjoyed this series. Listen, if you have enjoyed this two part series with David Thomas and Sissy Goff talking about kids and anxiety, share it with someone because if it was helpful for you, it'll be helpful for others. And leave me a comment and make sure you hit the like button so that YouTube will get this out to more people. However that works. But like subscribe, comment, do all the things. We'll be back here next time with another great conversation. Thank you again for joining us. And hey, just a little side note, I'm preaching this weekend for Mother's Day, so join us for church live 9:30 elevation church YouTube. Join us there. I'll be there. Hope to see you there. Love you guys. Have a great day.