Tom Lake: A Novel | Holly Furtick Book Club

Welcome to the Holly Furtick Book Club. Tonight, we're talking about Tom Lake by Ann Padgett. This is her newest book. It is hot off the press, and I loved every second of it. I can't wait to talk to you about it. All right, so I have been trying to get Ann Padgett to Kamar Book Club for a very long time and basically was like, I called the bookstore. Her bookstore is called Parnassus. More about that in my story. I called the bookstore. They were like, yeah, we don't. We don't do that part for her. So you'll have to talk with her publisher. I tried to get in touch with her publisher. Nothing. And I was really sad because I just loved her book, the Dutch House. If you've never read the Dutch House, that's what you're gonna read after the. Tonight, after you. If you finish Tom Lake, you're gonna go back and you're gonna read the Dutch House because it's excellent. And if you like audiobooks, it's narrated by Tom Hanks. So there's that. So anyway, I gave up on getting to talk with Anne about the Dutch House, and then I read her book, the last book that she put out, these good days. Good days, Old days. I don't remember the name. It's red cover. I listened to that one, and I loved it. And so, anyway, I'm a big Ann Padgett fan. And so Stephen and I took Abby to. To Nashville to see Taylor Swift back in May. And we had a couple other meetings, and we were sitting in this meeting, and Stephen got up to go to the bathroom, and so me and the lady that was a part of our meeting, we started talking about books, and she's like, oh, I know you like to read. You know, who do you like to read? And we were talking, and you know how fun it is when you talk to somebody who loves to read. And so we were like. And she goes, you know, Ann Padgett has a bookstore in Nashville. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I totally forgot. I was like, we're so going there, because Steven had another meeting, and me and Abby had, like, a couple hours to kill before the concert. So I was like, oh, we're totally going to Ann Padgett's bookstore. So we put it in the gps and we go. And I look at Abby. I was like, oh, my gosh. What if we. What if Anne is in the bookstore? And of course, Abby's like, that would be awesome. And so I'm like, in the Car. And I'm like, lord, could you please let Anne be in her bookstore when we go in there? And Abby goes, and, lord, could you please let Taylor Swift play Long Live Tonight? And then we were both like, but, Lord, we're having such a great time, and we're so grateful, and we were just being super silly. So we go in the bookstore, and in Ann's bookstore, there's this whole wall of her books and they. That she signed them all. And so I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get Bel Canto for my mom, and I'm gonna get the Dutch house for my sister, and I'm gonna get a copy of the Dutch myself. And I'm like, you know, and then I see that she has. She has, like, a book for graduates. And my son was graduating this year, and I had a bunch of, you know, his friends or whatever, so I have, like, a stack of, like, four or five of her graduates book. And so I'm, like, walking around her store with, like, a handful of books. And Abby's, you know, off getting whatever fantasy book she's into and that she wants, and. And I'm like, of course. I'm, like, looking around for Anne, and so I. I see this lady in a blue shirt, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, Abby. I think that's her. And I wanted to be sure, right? So I, like. I, like, look up Ann on my phone, and I'm like, yeah, I think that's her. And so then it was super crowded in the bookstore, too. And so it was the most crowded bookstore I've ever been in in my life. I don't know if people in Nashville just really like to read going on that day, but it was super crowded. So I, like, find an employee, and I'm like, hey, is that Ann? And she was like, yes. So now I'm, like, stalking her. And I. I never done this to somebody before, but I'm, like, stalking Ann Padgett. And so she's kindly, so patiently helping this other woman find a book. And this woman is looking for, like, I don't even know. It was, like, a kid's book about a dog, but it's like a comic book, you know, like a graphic novel. And she's like, I'm so patiently waiting. And she keeps going like, no, that's not it. And I'm like, ah. And so finally, another employee comes up and starts helping them find the dog. Graphic novel. And so I go up and I tap, and, you guys, she's gonna be on Here tonight. She is on. Okay, so I go up and I tap her. Excuse me. And. And she turns around. She's so kind. And I was like, my name is Holly Furtick. And guys, I got so excited that I was like, wanted to cry. I was, I was just so excited. And so I was like, I'm Holly Ferdy. My daughter Abby. I was like, I love your books. Thank you so much for. For putting your stories out into the world. And, and. And she was like, oh, you know, nice to meet you. And she goes, would you like me to sign your books? And. And I was like, you already signed them. She goes, oh, no, I'll sign them to whoever they're for. And so she sat down and she like wrote every person's name. You know, I had. I had a copy of one of them for my mother in law. And so she asked me how to spell her name. And anyway, it was like the best experience. And so I really wanted to ask her to come on book club. Okay, I did. But more than I wanted her, I didn't want to put her on the spot because, you know, sometimes people do that to my husband and it can be kind of weird. And I didn't want to be like, hey, will you come on my book club? And so I decided instead of asking her to come on book club, that I would just ask for a picture. And so I said, can we get a picture? And she was like, oh, sure, let's go to the front of the store where the light's better. And so Abby's asking if she can come in and say hi. Sorry, I have to tell her that she can come in and say. Of course she can come and say hi. But Anne's not on yet. She's coming on in just a second. I'm telling them my story of how we. So Anne signed all our books and then she walked to the front of the store and she took a picture with us. And I posted on my Instagram story today. And anyway, so. And I, we. We've already met, but I don't even know if she knows that I was the girl that was stalking her. Well, she's on right now, so she knows. And so I don't know if she knows that I was the. The lady and her daughter that were stalking her. Her bookstore. And we bought a lot of stuff, though. We bought a mug. We of course bought the tote bag. We bought all the books. And then I ordered my pre. I pre ordered my signed copy of Tom Lake and. And I loved it. Okay. Are you ready to bring Anne on? Yes. All right. Are you guys ready? Let's go.

Hi. I totally remember you guys. You do? I totally do because you sent a picture in. You sent a picture in through my publicist of the two of the three of us. Oh. And I saw it, and I was like, I totally remember. And I remember your. Is it that your son is going to Liberty?

Yes.

And his girlfriend.

And his girlfriend dropped him off last.

Night for both of them. I don't know why I remember, but I do.

Well, you signed there their little graduate books.

No, that's what I remember. Yeah.

And so we dropped them off, and. And we think it's going okay.

Good.

My son, like, Like. Like in true firstborn son fashion, called me today. And I was so excited when he called. I was like, ah. So I answered. I was like, hey, Elijah. And he was like, mom, I can't find where I'm supposed to be for my class.

And I was like, why are you calling me?

How would I know? So anyway, I'm so excited that you're here. Abby.

Are you excited?

Abby's first day of school is tomorrow, so.

Okay. So, Abby, this is what I want to know. How was the Taylor Swift concert?

It was so good. It was so good.

Which. Which night did you go?

Not the thunderstorm night. We went the first night.

That's fantastic.

So we. We had the best time, and. Yeah. And did you already read all the books that you got at Parnosis? Yes.

They gave them to Millie. Remember? Yes.

The one I bought for Millie. And then I bought.

Mm.

Oh, you know, some red turn pretty there. Yes. Because I already talked about it.

You did?

I talked about how I read it with you. Well, I listened, and you read it.

Yeah.

The book was better always. So you were.

You were wondering why the bookstore was so crowded when you were there? Yeah, it was Swifties. No. Three days. You couldn't drive anywhere in Nashville. You couldn't do anything. We were packed because it turns out Taylor Swift fans are readers.

That's amazing.

Amazing. And they flooded the bookstore. It was like locusts. They just came and ate up all the books.

You guys are playing Taylor Swift music, and I was freaking out.

We're not. We're no fools. We know what we're doing. Sure. In fact, there's that little golden book of Taylor Swift. You know what I'm talking about?

I know the golden book, but I.

Haven'T seen the one doing this. And we have, like, eight copies. And we realized that if we had had, say, 8,000 copies we could have sold them all.

You could assign them.

That's right. Love, Taylor.

That's amazing. Okay, Abby, we're talking about Tom Lake, and you haven't read that, so you need Tom.

I love you.

Okay.

Also, I first want to say, listen, I'm so. I have never heard that you have asked me on this program before, so I'm sorry it never got to me, because I definitely would have come.

I know. It's totally like, I.

We.

I've been doing this for a couple of years, and I find the most success with authors who are active on Instagram because they'll, like, see their direct messages. So once. And then my. Then. And I didn't even finish saying how. How we got you is. The other thing that I've learned is when an author is putting out a new book, if you find out that they're putting out a new book and then you talk to their publisher, right? Then you have a much better chance. So.

And the reason that this got to me is I'm friends with Barbara Kingsolver.

Okay.

And she had a really good experience, and she was like, do it. Do it.

So, yeah, I had the best time talking to her. Okay, well, maybe you can pay it forward, because I really, really also want to talk to Kristin Hannah. So I don't know if you know her, but I've been trying to get her on for a long time, too. And I know she has a new book coming out, like, in February, so.

I should be able to find. I think I could find Kristin Hannah for you.

That would be awesome. But I really. Okay. I really don't care because I am so excited to talk to you. I, like, I pre ordered a copy of the book, and then your team sent me a copy, and then I found out that Meryl Streep was doing the audio, and I was like, audio is my preferred method. And so I. I didn't even speed it up because I was like, yeah.

You can't speed up Meryl Streep. You cannot speed up Meryl Streep.

Although we can all shame my sister who's on here. She did. Because my sister has to, like, she has to know how the story ends, and so she has to speed it up.

So.

But she didn't speed it up as much as she normally does, so she said Meryl was too slow. So. Okay. I don't even know where to start, except to tell you that I also read for the first time Our Town, and I sort of one of the girls that I follow on Instagram who loved Tom Late. She was like, you have to read Our Town first. I couldn't find the audio copy. And so I'm so slow at reading because I fall asleep at night when I'm reading, but when I'm audiobook, it's like, with me all day and in the car and doing the dishes or whatever. And so I was sort of reading them side by side, and I realized how much the whole book, it, like, centers around our town. So start with me there. Like, when did you know? How did you decide Our Town is going to be the center of my next book?

Yeah.

And.

And you know what I like to say is it's a little bit like Demon Copperhead and David Copperfield. Like, you can totally read Demon Copperhead, and that's something that Barbara says all the time without going back and reading David Copperfield. I am such a David. Did you read David Copperfield?

No. Okay. I just have to say that Our Town was a lot.

A lot easier to come on Our Town. It's like, it's a play. It takes an hour and a half. Plus, you can watch it on YouTube and just watch Paul Newman doing Paul Newman. Being the stage manager.

I was scared. I have to let my dog in because he's scratching at the door. I was scared that I. I was scared to watch it. And I probably should have watched it because I never read a play before, and so I wasn't very good at, like, the pace of reading a play because my eyes wanted to skip over all the stage direction and stuff. And so I probably should have watched it. But, like, I looked everywhere.

So.

For a Netflix version or for an audio or like a. Like, even, like a. What do you call, like, a reader's theater. I couldn't find anything except on YouTube. And I was scared. It was like somebody like, iPhone. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I don't think that listening to a play as an audiobook would work.

Sometimes they'll do, like, a theater.

That's nice. Okay.

Okay. So tell me.

Yeah, okay.

Where. Like, where did. How did that happen?

It was always going to be about Our town. I'm obsessed with Our Town. It's kind of my seminal piece of American literature. My best friend, when we were kids, Tavia, her dad was a high school drama teacher, and when we were nine, he did Our Town. So that was when I first saw it. Then I think I read it in School at 14, and. And I think I've read it every year since. And sometimes twice a year. I mean, I just. I keep it by my desk and I just keep going back to it. It's very meaningful to me, just reminding me that life is comprised of a bunch of small moments and that if you don't pay attention, you miss your life. Yeah.

And that's kind of one of the themes of Tonic, is that you're getting all these. She's looking back and she's seeing the moments of her life. But I felt like at the end of the book that Laura. That Emily impacted Laura in such a way that she was like, I am going to live my life and I'm gonna enjoy every second of it.

Right. And I'm gonna live my life and be true to myself. Not what other people think that I should want, but what I actually really want.

Yeah. Okay. So usually before I. I just got so excited to bring you on that I didn't even do what I normally do on my book club.

Okay.

So usually I like to talk about the things I love about the book. So I love the theme of Our Town. I loved Laura telling the story. At some point. I. At some parts, I thought maybe she was dead and I wasn't gonna know until the end because of the way that you, like, did the narration where there were times that she was telling the story to her girls, and then there were times that she was just telling the story to me.

Right.

And so I was just wondering if she was like Emily, if she was, like, dead at the end.

Oh, wow.

So I was really glad that she wasn't, because I didn't want. I don't think I could have taken that.

Okay, let me just tell you. And some people break this rule, but in my mind, if you have a first person narrator telling you the story, that person is not gonna die. Oh. Because if they're the person telling the story. Although that said, I recently read a book in which the first person narrator was like, it turns out she did die. And she was telling it as a ghost. I was like, no, no, not fair. You're not allowed to do that.

Okay. But, like, Emily was a ghost.

Emily, at the very end, she is a ghost. Yeah. So that's.

I really thought when I.

Because she's not telling the story right. She's not the narrator. She's not in charge.

Okay, good. So I'll keep. I'll keep that. I'll keep that in mind for the future, because I really was scared that she was dead. I also have teenagers, and so I loved Emily, the daughter, and how she was, like, got obsessed with Peter Duke and how she would not let her family, like, she wouldn't stop. I thought you wrote that brilliantly. Because I know what it's like to have a teenager, like, decide that they need something that you're not gonna let or, you know, they want to do something that you're not gonna let. And I just. I love that. I thought that was brilliant. I loved the reveal of Joe being the husband. Like, I did not see that coming. And I was listening to it, and I. I had this, like. And then you. Because you had been so fond of the director and how Laura talked about him as the director. And then the last thing that I wrote down that I loved was I love the complexity of the character of Peter Duke, because he did everything that I expected him to do. Nothing he did surprised me. And I still, even though I hated him, I still kind of loved him because he was one of those people. Right. That everybody loves.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's just brilliant. Okay, so before I start my questions, can you just start by just reading a selection from it? I love to hear authors read yes in their voice.

Okay. Found a part. Not long. Just a little bit. This is towards the end, and it gives nothing away, but everybody's read it, so I don't have to worry.

You can do spoilers.

It's fine. Okay, great. Maisie and Mel get their hats, their bug spray, and go into the great dripping world wearing muck boots. I stay behind to make lunch, which I should have been working on while I was talking all this time. The past need not be so all encompassing that it renders us incapable of making egg salad. The past, were I to type it up, would look like a disaster. But regardless of how it ended, we all had many good days. In that sense, the past is much like the present, because the present, this unparalleled disaster, is the happiest time in my life. Joe and I here on the farm, our three girls grown and gone, and then returned.

All.

All of us working together to take the cherries off the trees. Ask the girl who left Tom Lake what she wanted out of life, and she never in a million years would have said. The Nelson farm in Traverse City, Michigan. But as it turned out, that that's all I ever wanted. I can read one more paragraph or I can just stop.

Keep going, keep going.

All right. Once I finish with the sandwiches and put the bags of cookies and chips in a backpack, I walk out past the kitchen garden. The lettuce and tomato plants and zinnias are already straightening up from the beating. They've taken Those tiny periwinkle butterflies are working their rounds. Where did the periwinkles go in rain like that? It's not that I'm unaware of the suffering and soon to be more suffering in the world. It's that I know that the suffering exists beside wet grass and a bright blue sky recently scrubbed by rain. The beauty and the suffering are equally true. Our town taught me that. I had memorized the lessons before I understood what they meant. No matter how many years ago I'd stopped playing Emily, she is still here. All of Grover's Corners is in me.

I love it so much.

Thank you.

So I heard one time, I think it was you. I think I was listening to a podcast with Kate Decamillo.

Oh, yeah.

She was talking about you, and she said you write the end first. Is that true?

Well, not exactly. I mean, like, John Irving writes the end first. John Irving writes the last sentence of the book before he starts. It's that I know how the book is going to end before I start writing it.

Okay.

So I don't start with the ending, but I have to know how the book ends before I can launch into it. I think about a book for a long time, sometimes a couple of years before I start to write it, and I get it all straightened out in my mind, and then I go forward. So you almost. I know the whole thing.

So you. You have like a mental outline. Yeah. Of every character, every major point, and how it ends before you start typing.

Yes.

Yeah.

But I've thought about it for, like, two years or something.

Would you be writing another book while you're thinking about a different one?

You know, sort of. I mean, I started thinking about this book when I was writing the Dutch House. I was working on the Dutch House, and I thought, oh, I really want to write a novel about our town and about a woman who had played Emily when she was in high school. So that was all I knew. And then I just kept thinking about it, and I was going to write it after the Dutch House, but then I wound up writing these Precious Days. And when I finished that, I was like, oh, the Our Town idea feels old now. And I had a friend. I told my friend Katrina about this story, and she just kept saying, you've got to write this book. You've got to write this book. And so I did.

So you've got it all kind of laid out in your head, and then you start typing.

Right.

And then I heard that you had a very specific typing method with this book.

Yeah, this is the first time I've done this. But I have a treadmill desk, and I've had the treadmill desk for. I got it for my 50th birthday, and I'm 59, so I've had it for a long time. But I had always just used it for emails and phone calls and that sort of thing. And then for whatever reason, when I started this book, I thought, I'm going to give. Give it a try. Really? Writing fiction on the treadmill desk. And I ended up writing the whole thing on the treadmill.

And so you would wake up in the morning, get on the treadmill.

Yeah.

And start typing.

Yep. Yeah.

Is it hard to type and walk at the same time?

No, no. I could, you know, like, I could walk you into the other room at the end and show it to you. Yeah, it's. I have a big external monitor, and I would just plug my little laptop into the monitor. I walk pretty slow. It's 1.5 miles an hour. Okay. I would stay on for two or three hours. And then when I got off. And I would get off because my feet hurt enough when I would get off, I would not go back to the book. So when I would wake up the morning, I was like, let's go, let's go. And I was very happy and excited.

And so, like, was it one of those situations where when your body started moving, the story started coming again?

You know, it's not so much that the sensation was I had this sense of I was walking into the novel, so I get very distracted. Everybody gets very distracted. So if I'm sitting at my desk and I'm writing, there's also part of my brain that's like, what am I going to make for dinner? And I really need to go to the grocery store, and I should do it before school lets out, because it'll get crowded and I need to flip the laundry and I've got to remember to call my mother. And all these things are going on while I'm writing the novel, sort of. I call it the squirrels in my head. But when I got on the treadmill, I had this theory that the part of my brain that is interested in the minutiae of life and obligation was then focused on walking. I was like, right foot, left foot, right foot, left. That's half my brain. And I just had the most amazing concentration while I was writing on the treadmill. I mean, I just really felt like I was not thinking about anything else for that period of time.

Fascinating. So do you think you'll Try it again.

Yeah, I think I will. And also, what's really interesting is, you know, a lot about getting older, but just a lot about writing is about physical pain. And so by the end of the novel, you know, one shoulder is up like this, and my hands are killing me and all of that. I didn't have any of that when I was riding on the treadmill. Like, instead of pain being in my neck and my back and my hands, it was all in my knees and my feet. And it's infinitely preferable to have pain from the waist down than it is pain from the waist up. I really felt so much better while I was writing this book.

Okay, so let's go back to the characters. So you've got the characters mapped out in your mind before you start reading. Do you ever. Do you ever delete a character or does one become more prominent than the other as you're working it out, as.

You'Re like, yeah, usually it's not that I delete a character. It's more that characters will get added. But, you know, people love to believe that this whole thing about the characters take over the narrative and they do their own thing. And I personally, I don't find that to be true. You know, I just feel like this is what I'm doing. And I always say, like, if I was a contractor and I was building a house, and at some point early on, I decided, you know, I want a main floor master, and I'm going to move the, you know, the owner's bedroom and bathroom to the first floor. It's not like the house takes over, right? And just like, the house has a mind of its own. And that decided that the master bedroom suite should be on the first floor. It's like, no, I got into this and I changed my mind and I started to do it another way. So that, to me, is what writing a novel is like. I changed my mind, but it. These aren't real people. I am making them up.

So how. Tell me about.

Tell me about the.

Let's talk about the title. Because while I'm reading where I'm there at Tom, late in the parts of the story where they're at Tom Lake, I'm picturing Dirty Dancing.

Okay, that's fair.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I'm just picturing, like, this whole, like, camp situation. I had never heard of. What was it called? Like, the acting. The type of acting they were doing.

The summer act theater.

I never heard of some theater. And so I was super interested in that. And then also, like, because I Love. One of the things I love about fiction is how it's like. It's like backdoor learning. So I learned about cherry trees, and I learned about summer stock theater. So where. How did you decide? Like, ah, they're gonna. They're gonna all converge here at Tom Lake.

So I have a friend who lives in Traverse City, Michigan, named Erin Whiting. Aaron and her husband Ben, are really good friends of ours. Their dog, Scooter, is the best friend of my dog, Sparky. It's a long story, but Erin grew up on a cherry farm in northern Michigan. And after college, she started a professional theater company with her best friend. And so it was like, wow, I have a friend who has the two skills that I need. Cherry farming and running a theater. And so I would send her lists of questions and say, you know what? There's so many things. So many things that I didn't know, like the fact that you go to a summer stock theater and before it opens, you're rehearsing the first play, but as soon as the first play opens, then you're rehearsing the second play all day. And then at night, you're in the first play, and one night's a musical, and the next night's the serious drama. And it goes back and forth. It has such a spreadsheet. It was so complicated. I couldn't believe it. Just the scheduling and these people work every minute that they're. It is so much work to be in one of these theater companies. And then, you know all this stuff about cherry farming and tree grafting. And I went up to Traverse City, and I was like, okay, I want a farm that's this big and it operates like this. And she was like, oh, I've got a friend who has that kind of farm. So she took me to Barb Wunsch's farm, and I rode around, and then I took notes, and Barb explained things to me. And I was back in Traverse City last week on book tour, and Barbara, like, had a lunch party for me, and all the farm workers came, and I, Erin and Ben and I went back to Barb's farm. It was so meaningful to then go back to all the places. We went to the house. We walked through the orchards. We walked the path through the woods and down to the lake. And I was like, oh, my gosh. This place that's been in my mind, it's also real and so beautiful.

That's amazing. And you. You really painted this beautiful picture of this dreamy place. And I really, like, I Just. I had such a wonderful journey in.

Along.

In this story that I just let it kind of take me where. Wherever Lara was going. And even though I knew she ended up on a farm, I never really cared about how she got there. You know, I was interested in the story, but it was like. I was just like, oh, eventually she meets a farmer. And that's why I was so shocked when the farmer is the director. And he's like the antithesis of Peter Duke. Right, right. He's stable. He's. He's thoughtful. He's, like, secure in himself, and he's like such a great dad, such a great husband.

And.

And then you've got this, like, Peter Duke character. So tell me more about how did he come to be. You know, you studied cherry trees. What did you.

How. How did.

How did Peter come to be?

Yeah. Well, for Peter, I didn't have to do a lot of research because I was once a woman in my 20s who dated, and I knew Peter Dukes. And when I was in graduate school at Iowa, they were the poets. You know, they. And they suffered. Oh, Holly, they suffered terribly. They were handsome, and they wore leather jackets, and sometimes they had motorcycles, and they smoked unfiltered cigarettes, and they had all sorts of poetry memorized, and they. They would sit in the bar at midnight reading poetry, and they would suffer. And. And. And all of us, we wanted. The girls, we wanted to help them suffer less because we cared about them. You know, they were just. They were brilliant, tortured geniuses. And every guy I knew in my 20s was like that. And those guys are so thrilling when you're young and you feel like, I can save them, I can fix them up, I can give them a beautiful, stable life, which they don't want. And those aren't the guys you marry. Those are the guys you date. And, you know, then I married somebody who was wonderful and very much like Joe Nelson. And so it's a lot about trying to explain to these daughters who love their father, like, what you love when you're in your 20s, that's not what you love later on in life, if you're lucky.

Yeah. And the way that the mom is like, the. In some ways, at first, I kind of felt insulted for Jo, because especially Emily, she's like, why didn't you marry Peter Duke? Like, you could have. What? Look at what you could have been. And the whole time she's trying to get them to see, no, I have. What I have is the ultimate fulfillment in life.

Yeah.

And so I just love that. I love that message. And I love, like we do, we all know a Peter Duke. And the thing about them is that they are just, they're like enrapturing when you're around them. Like they just fill a room. I mean, I can, I can think of a couple different people that I know and they, they truly fill the room with their presence. But yet their presence is so overbearing when you're on the outside looking in. But when you're in there with it, you know, you can feel it. And I loved how you gave all these little, like, I don't know, like these little Easter eggs of how it wasn't gonna go well for him later. You know, like how he's up late at night obsessively writing about the character and the scenes where the part I was telling my husband about how he was like in the, when they did the other play, how he was actual drink real tequila while they were acting.

Right.

And just all these little nuggets that you're giving along the way as a 43 year old woman. I'm going, oh God, she needs to get out. She needs to get out. Because I didn't know how, how it was going to end for her. Was there anything that. So was there anything that, that you held back from, with, with him? Were you purposefully making him vague in like how it ended for him?

What do you mean?

Oh, I like how it felt like, you know, you can, you can give people, I think the way I've heard it said before, I always botch these kind of little statements, but you can give people two or you can give them one plus one. And I felt like you gave me one plus one with him. Like, you weren't necessarily spelling it out about Peter Duke, but obviously. But then you were giving us these little hints about how almost like you were talking to Emily. Like she's not. He's not, he's not this amazing life that you think he is on, on the stage.

Well, but he, you know, that's the thing. He really is an amazing actor. He's incredibly talented and he cares passionately and he works really hard and he's all about the craft. That doesn't mean you want to date him, right? Or it doesn't mean that you want to date him for the summer. So. But I'm wondering, are you. Because we, we have no spoilers, which is so weird for me because I'm not used to being able to talk about. But are you asking me if he killed himself?

Yeah.

Oh, because he totally.

Yeah. You Said he swims away.

Yeah.

Well, I didn't know if he killed himself or if it was like a drug, if he was like.

No, no, he. He drowned himself.

Because in the end, he was this amazing person that everybody loved and admired, but he never really loved himself.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's. Or maybe he loved himself too much.

I mean, he was.

He was really tortured.

Yeah.

And had some big issues. I mean, the. The part where she's saying to the daughters, oh, he was crazy. And the daughters were like, oh, no, you can't say that. You can't say crazy. But he. He was. You know, he was brilliant and talented, but he was also crazy.

And she knew it. From the minute that she heard that he drowned, she knew it totally. Do you think the girls knew it?

Yeah. Yeah, I do.

By the end of the story. All right, so go back and.

Tell.

Me about the daughters. How did you decide how old to make them and how many of them to be? How did that. When you're plotting through this story in your mind, how are you giving her family? Why were they all girls? I love.

I love having a lot of characters. And one thing that always bugs me when I read a novel where it's like, an only child who marries an only child, and there's. There are no secondary characters and they have one child. I'm like, life is never like that. You know, I. I like it when it's sort of big and messy and I can deal with a lot of people. And they were always going to be three girls. And I think because it's fiction, you know, everything is in threes. It's like the three bears and the three wishes, and, you know, you want threes. One thing on this book tour that has blown my mind. How many women have come up to me and said, oh, I have three daughters. And I just feel like if I just sold this book to women who had three daughters, it would be a huge bestseller because there are so many women, it turns out, who have three daughters.

I came from a family of three daughters.

There you go. There you go. And it's just. That's a really interesting dynamic. It's a really. The dynamic of three. And these girls are very different, and they really love each other. And I like the fact that Emily was really, really impossibly difficult when she was a teenager, but then she grew out of it. That's always really fun to let characters change, and they're just like, oh, you were an awful teenager. Also, I have women coming up to me in the Line saying, oh, I was the Emily. I was the really bad one.

But it was really beautiful the way that you gave us a healthy family. Because there's so much. There's so many books on dysfunctional families. And I think that even though there was a lot of grit and sadness in this story, at the core was. Was this beautiful, healthy family. And they weren't. They weren't perfect, but they. They weren't this, like, complete disaster of dysfunction. And, yes, teenagers, they grow out of it. And there's like. It was just so wonderful, I felt like, to read that part and to.

Know.

That there are families like that in, like. Because when you read. I mean, I know that there are families like that. I came from a great family. I have a great family. I know lots of people who have great families. Sometimes when you read. It's only about the dysfunctional families. And it was just nice to see a family navigating the dysfunctions of the world and the dysfunctions of their past. And these girls coming in to seeing their mom through adult eyes, which is. It was just. The themes in the book were everywhere, and I just. I just loved it so much, and I'm just so grateful for people like you who push through and who write these stories. Was there anything like, when you were done and you sent it off, did you feel finished? Did you feel you have a hard time finishing it?

No, I didn't have a hard time. I never have a hard time finishing. It's funny, I am a slow starter. I have a really hard time starting. Once I get to page 80, I'm pretty good. And I am a solid finisher. I have a really good friend who's an amazing starter but has a really hard time finishing, which means he's got like 12 books that he's written the first hundred pages of, but then he wanders off. It's like, if I can get to the first, third or the middle, I'm absolutely going to finish, and that's not a problem. And then I have a lot of good friends who read my books for me, and we. I read their books for them and we give each other notes, and then when I have it all finished, I hand it in. Do you have a favorite character in this book? I really. It's so funny because when I. When you say favorite characters, then I always think more of the story, secondary characters than the. Like, I love Jo and Laura, but I love Maisie. I really love Maisie. And I really love Sebastian.

Yeah, we haven't even talked about Sebastian.

Okay. You Want me to tell you a story about Sebastian you're gonna find really interesting?

Yes, please.

The hardest thing before I started this novel, and this sounds crazy, the hardest thing for me to decide was whether or not Laura would tell the story or Sebastian would tell the story.

Okay?

Now, if it had been Sebastian telling the story, it wouldn't have been about the farm. It would have been about the three daughters. None of that would have been in there. But it would have still been about that summer and what it would have been like. I'm so interested in what it would have been like to be Sebastian. And sometimes I think I might write this book again from just thinking that from Sebastian's point of view and that it wouldn't really be about the summer at Tom Lake, but what it would be like to be the brother of such a famous man who you were always having to pick up and take care of, but he's always out in front. So.

Okay. So, okay, a couple questions. Did you try to write through Sebastian first?

No.

Or you just.

I mean, I do everything in my head.

Okay, so have you ever written a sequel before?

No, and this wouldn't be a sequel. It would be more like a parallel.

But you have the same characters. Like. And you can bring in. They can do, like, cameos.

I would have the same characters, but in the story of Duke and Sebastian's life, Jo and Laura wouldn't be important at all.

Right.

You know, so it would be just an entirely different story.

Okay. Well, I vote okay for you to write that.

That's good to know. I might do it.

Are you working on something else?

No. All I'm doing now is signing my name from the minute I wake up in the morning. So why I was just signing my name. So this is called a tip sheet. And what they do is you sign these and then you mail them back. And during production, the publisher has them sewn into books. So that means that they can have a case of signed books in Nebraska or South Carolina or, you know, someplace I didn't go to this time. But they can sell signed books. You just sign all day long. All day long. When I'm home, I sign my name, and then I go back out on tour because tour is huge and endless. And then I sign real books.

How'd you get Meryl Streep to read the audio?

I asked her. So 15 years ago, I had lunch with Meryl Streep, and there was a period of about seven minutes when she was interested in playing Roxanne Koss in the movie of Bel canto.

Okay.

And it didn't work out, I'm very sorry to say. But it was. It was sort of an intense thing, and I really wanted her to do the audiobook or I wanted to ask her because she has three daughters, and I just thought she would be perfect. So my agent is a woman named Felicity Blunt, and Felicity Blunt is the sister of Emily Blunt, the actress. And Felicity is married to Stanley Tucci, who played Meryl's husband in the movie Julie and Julia.

Okay.

So I called Felicity, and I said, if I wrote a note to Meryl, would you send it to her? And Felicity said, no, but here's her email. So she sent me her email, and I wrote her a really short email. I told her what the book was about in four sentences, and I said, you know, is there any chance you might consider doing this? And she wrote me back the next day, and she said, this is great. She said, I'm so honored that you would think of me.

Wow.

And she was like, of course I'll do it. And I said, don't you want to read the book first? And she was like, no, no, it sounds great. And she did it. You know, once Tom Hanks has recorded a book, it sort of makes you feel empowered, and you're like, well, because I couldn't believe I had asked Tom to do it, and he said yes. And I was like, well, why not ask Meryl then?

Well, all right. So who would we ask to read if you wrote. If you wrote the story Through Sebastian's eyes?

Oh, my gosh. I have no idea. I mean, Tom Hanks, when I got Meryl, he was like, why didn't you ask me to do it again? Because it is a female protagonist. So, I mean, maybe I would go back and ask Tom again. I don't know.

He was amazing.

On.

On.

So good. He was so good and was so good.

Yeah. Oh, it was incredible.

Okay.

I. Thank you so much. I don't want to take up much more of your time. I love to ask authors about what they like to read, so I'm going to ask you something really specific first.

Okay.

Is there an author that you're like, I read. I've read every single one of their books.

Oh, my gosh. So many of them. Elizabeth Strout, Colson Whitehead, Louise Erdrich, Miley Malloy, Toni Morrison, James McBride, who has a new book. James McBride has a new book out that I love having an earth Grocery store. Colson has a new book out, Crook Manifesto. That's fabulous. But, yeah, they're Once I get on to somebody, and especially if I know them. Kate DiCamillo, the love. I love her. This book is dedicated to her. It is.

I forgot about that. I was a teacher for three years, and I always read because of Winn Dixie to my students, and I read it to all of my kids, too. It's one of my favorite books. Probably in my top. I don't know, I have a lot of favorite books, but my.

You know, and let me just say my favorite is the Magician's Elephant.

Yeah.

Which they just made a great movie out of.

Oh, okay. I haven't seen it. All right, tell me another one. I know you've got one that you. That you were Lindsay Lynch.

Do Tell by Lindsay Lynch. So Lindsay works in the bookstore and she is 32. She came to work for us when she was 21, and she went off and went to graduate school. But she has worked so hard and she did such a good job. And she's like my little bookstore daughter. I'm just so proud of her. And she had a lot of rejection, and she just kept pulling herself up and working and trying again. It's a book about the golden age of Hollywood. It's got a little bit of a thriller aspect. It has an incredibly beautiful ending. It's a summer read, but it also has a lot of substance, and I'm incredibly proud of her. So, you know, also, I just think people need to take a chance on new writers. Yeah. Because that's how careers are built. So support Lindsay Lynch. This is great.

I have a theory that. That a lot of times somebody's first book is their best because it's the one that they've been working on for so long.

Yeah. I hope that's not true for me. Here, come here. Sparky just came in. Sparky Van Devender of Parnassus Books.

He's on the COVID of these Precious Days.

That's right. And he's on Instagram every Tuesday on the Lay Down Diaries. Me and Sparky and Lindsay, we do this and we recommend books every Tuesday. And this is what I want to read next.

Oh, you're going to love it.

My husband read it and he cried at the end. And it's so funny because I haven't. I have a galley. I have an advanced reader copy that we had given away. And I said to my husband today, we've got to get the galley back because I can't read the hardback. And I tried to listen to the audio and I just thought, I can't. I'VE got to read this. I can't follow the audience. Yes.

Because there is a learning curve with the setting being in India. And there's a lot of words when you're listening to the audiobook that you may not know. You know, like, that it's a. I don't know, like a slang for the term brother.

Right.

And you don't. Like, there's. You don't know. It's really hard to keep up with the characters doing the audio at the beginning. And so I would. I would definitely say, if you like to read actual books, that I would recommend reading that one. But you're. You're gonna love it. But don't listen to Oprah's. I'm very mad at Oprah because she said on her Instagram, don't tell me, listen. She did, like, six parts. The six part podcast and the books in parts. And so I swear, it said you can listen to the parts as you read the book, but then it spoiled, like, a huge part of the story for me, and so I was kind of bummed. But I still absolutely love. It's.

It's phenomenal.

You'll love it. You'll. And it's so fun to have a book that's that long that you love because. Because you're not. You know, it's so sad. When I was sad when Tom Lake was over, I was like, oh, I'm gonna miss them. You know, like, you. You get so into. And there. There's characters in that book that will, like, follow you for. Haunt you for days. Just thinking about, what would Big Amachi do here? And it's just wonderful. So you're gonna love it.

He's also. He's a great guy, and obviously he's a doctor, and he came to Nashville to do an event at Parnassus, and he. And my husband's a doctor, and they really bonded. So I'm excited about that. Hey, I want to tell you about a book that you need to keep an eye out for that's coming out in November. And best book of the year, it's called absolution by Alice McDermott.

Okay. The best book that. You think it's the best book of the year.

Yes, I think it's going to win the Pulitzer. Okay.

Okay.

And I also think that you would. You would love it. It's a very, very beautiful book. And I blurbed it, and I called it a moral masterpiece. I don't know if you've read Alice McDermott's books before. Oh, I love her. She she's somebody. Also, I read every single one of her books. And this book, in the same way that Demon Copperhead, like, Barbara's an amazing writer, but Demon Copperhead is the best. And Alice is an amazing writer, but Absolution is the best.

It's her best work.

Yeah.

Okay.

And she's brilliant. She's been finalist for the Pulitzer three times.

So which one? If I'm gonna read one while I'm waiting of hers, which one would you tell me to read?

You don't need. Need to wait. Just call the publisher. They'll send you again. It's not me. Yeah. Faris Grouse. Tell a Man. Patchett sent you, but her last book was called the Ninth Hour, and it's wonderful. So you read that?

Okay.

Yeah. Thank you. Oh, my goodness.

Thank you so much for being on tonight. Keep writing. I. I'm just like. So I'm. And I'm also going backwards and reading more of yours. My next one that I want to read is Bel Canto, because somehow I've never read that before.

Okay. Did you read Commonwealth?

No, I haven't read that one yet.

That's my.

Commonwealth is your. Like, that's my story.

That's. Well, yeah.

I mean, in a fiction form.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. So if you ever want to know anything about me, Commonwealth.

Well, I feel like I know a lot about you from reading these precious dates.

Yeah. Right, right. Exactly.

I know about your fathers. I know about so many things. Okay, so I'm gonna. Next time I see you, if I come to Nashville, I'm gonna come to your bookstore, and I will have read Commonwealth and Bel Canto.

And let me know. I mean, let me know in advance that you're coming. And I'm so glad that I was there.

I.

That's a beautiful thing. And so funny that I remember you and Abby.

It was so great when I saw.

You, I was like. I totally remember them, because I'm sure you meet lots of people a lot. Yeah.

I tried to be really kind about it, but I also. Sometimes you just can't help it when you meet somebody that you were, like, really looking forward to meeting.

You were great. You were both terrific.

Thank you.

And thank you so much for having me on. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you.

I. I so enjoy talking to you and get back on the treadmill and. Okay, tell us about. Tell us about. I forgot his name. I want to call him Sergio.

Sebastian.

Sebastian.

It's Saint. Do you know Saint Sebastian? Yes, with the arrows, you know, because Saint Sebastian just suffers and suffers and suffers. And that's why he's. Sebastian, I really.

I need you to get back on the treadmill.

Okay. All right. Thank you, Holly. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

All right, have a great night.

Bye.

I hope you enjoyed Tom Lake, and I hope you enjoyed talking with Ann as much as I did. She was amazing.

Hello.

She wrote a book. Walking on her treadmill. Hey, if you enjoyed this conversation, make sure to, like, make sure to share it. Share the book. Book with someone. Share the book club with someone. Hey, if you're not a part of our book club, it's super easy to join. Just go to HollyFurdick.com, give me your email, and all I'm going to do is send you an email once a month and let you know what we're reading and when we're meeting, and then you can join us for the live discussion. I hope you have a great night. Make sure you, like, share. Turn on the notifications so you can get more videos just like this one. And I hope you have a great sa.